Should you bill a client for wanting to meet up for several hours without making progress in the project itself?

[Anonymous]

[Telekinetic-Potato]

Eeehhhh

this is where setting boundaries becomes important. Most people I know struggle with this to varying degrees.

When a client comes over, you have to know what is going on beforehand. Are we working, planning or hanging out?

if you’re working, you charge them but if you feel like you spent 2 hours working and another hr shooting the shit, you’re not going to be able to charge for that unless it’s a corporate client.

always have an escape plan, hint early on about other appointments. If you want your meeting done by 5 you tell them hey I have a call at 6 I need to get some things ready before then. I’m going to have to wrap things up by 430 today.

let them know early, preferably before they show up.

sometimes you need to let people come over and shoot the shit with you. Talk about life, grab a steak somewhere. It’s just part of owning a business that’s something you should be budgeting for. At the end of the day you’re a salesperson. So your game as an entrepreneur is relationships.

Be very careful about bending rules, letting people get too comfortable staying hours later and then they try to come at you “ well this wasn’t exactly what I wanted” fuck off. The way I work, we do a treatment, it’s very specific what’s going to be don’t, there’s a couple rounds of touchups we do and if you want to sit down with us and really take part we charge hourly.

Of course, the clients usually need a little training so I’ll try my best to make them capable, but I’m charging them for it.

Sometimes what is an easier sell is to sell the one on one time as a bundle. I’ll do 3hrs 10hrs up to 50hrs and then you can get a little more lax with things.

One of the worst things you can do to your business is let clients waste your time. Every second you let a client waste your time for free is less time working on something else, selling other jobs and you’re going to burn everybody out.

[Asker]

Client has also delayed project for over half a year and has changed her mind multiple times. Once I went over and she was like “I’m not even sure I need a website anymore” and then I had to convince her to keep it which took extra time and writing up emails. Then she asks to revise the contract to add in an additional service included in the same flat price as originally stated, and this is usually a service I charge separately. She keeps holding the fact that she paid for this project already over my head but won’t tell me when she’s ready to resume it (I need certain items from her) and I can’t keep starting and stopping it as she pleases. She’s wanted to meet a total of 12 hours this year and no visible progress made. I told her I’m gonna need to start charging fees past a certain point if she keeps deferring the project…and she pulls the victim card each time. I hate her.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

Lawyer, contact a lawyer. This sounds like it’s a the result of a mix between not having your contract as perfect as it should be and your client feels like she’s got you by the balls.

If your agreement allows for it, I would break off this relationship. If you make her the best website she ever could have dreams of, what do you think she’s going to say about you to other people? Things that make you money or make you loose money?

My first business I worked with someone who catered to these people all the time and it ruined that business.

It’s one thing to cater to needy people in the beginning while you’re building a reputation. And sometimes you need to accept that your business model is going to allow this situation to happen for as long as it takes for you to figure it out.

But don’t let her dig your hole deeper.

Chances are, she can’t make you do a ton of work, and then cancel when you refuse to do extra services for free. It sounds like she’s not been responsible in her duties as the client.

You can have parts of the contract that say how much time the client has to make a decision each step of the way.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

I’m sorry this is reminding me of stuff I went through and it makes me so heated 😂

[Asker]

I genuinely cannot refund her any part of it. I needed that for my bills. This disrupted me from being able to even take on new work.
You’re right. My contract wasn’t perfect. But I also NEVER would have thought she’d be THIS difficult. It’s outrageous.
In contract under terms and termination: “this project is ongoing until complete. If client wishes to break the agreement and cancel the project, they will still be liable to pay the agreed-upon amount.”

[Asker]

Also I have an arbitration clause, she cannot file a lawsuit. So that’s the process if she wanted to get to that point.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

So far as I know ( I used to work for a grimey fuck) you still have to be careful because if she can show that some aspect of the job wasn’t done because of you then it all falls apart. Right now I would be in covering my ass mode. I would have a conversation with my lawyer and try to come up with a plan. Whether that involves sending a letter that basically says “Hey, this has gone past the scope that any reasonable person would expect from the context of the agreement, here is a solution” or really I think you should have a sit down conversation with the client and tell her that there need to be milestones, there’s no business in the world that can run like this, if she needs help, she’s either going to have to hire a professional to handle the project on her behalf or come to you with a proper treatment in a certain amount of time.

If I go to a restaurant and send back the steak 3 times, they don’t need to cook me a 4th steak. They’ll say “sir, we’ve done everything we can reasonably to accommodate you, this is the last steak we will make would you like this one or for us to try one last time?”

[Asker]

I can’t afford any of this.
She’s a psychotic POS.
She’s buying more time instead of telling me whether she wants to move forward or cancel and not giving me answers which is stressing me out. I can’t tell if she’s gonna try to do something legally. But tbh I don’t think she’s smart enough to pull anything off. I have been involved with employment lawsuits before (against former employer) and it’s difficult process.
I have an email where I’ve requested things for the website so I can adequately do my job and she sent me a long email telling me im asking for too much. I don't know anymore. I guess im screwed.

[Asker]

But honestly this may not even be her perspective. She could just be insanely disorganized and clueless.
I’m also looking at this through the lens as someone who gets frequently taken advantage of.
I also have proof in texts that she keeps thanking me for my flexibility through the process and stuff.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

Well she sounds to me like she knows she’s getting away with something. If you’ve run into problems like these before I think you need to get better acquainted with your lawyer.

One thing I’m thankful for is I learned how litigious this industry can be by watching a shark.

The person who wins seems to always be the one who is better prepared.

So that’s why I think you should talk to your lawyer about figuring out a way to send this bitch a bill and drop the project

[Telekinetic-Potato]

Send it to collections if you have to

[TheSpaceGnome]

No, unless you actually provide a paid service, you should not bill them.
This trend of charging for wasting a client's time needs to stop. Especially with doctors, who are notorius for charging large fees for just talking and refusing to do anything to help the patient. Charging for time alone should be legally considered theft.

Imagine if you went to a concert or a movie, and instead of getting to hear music/see the movie, you just got charged, shown ads, and were told to leave.

People would riot. Its not ok with entertainment careers, it should not be ok with any other career.

[DishLady]

Yes bc that's the scheduled time. This is a new trend among many medical and legal providers to ensure that clients don't waste their time.

[RebelinSteel]

It depends what you have put into the statement of work and what has been agreed to.

[Asker]

It’s not in the project contract. It’s outside the project scope outlined in here.

[RebelinSteel]

Well it’s a badly worded statement of work (not project contract)

[slatyb]

Yes, you should not work for free ever.

[exitseven]

if you can get away with it., Why not?