Is the story of Lord of the Rings racist?

[Anonymous]

link to article is right here

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/16/tolkien-ethnic-chauvinism-claim/

I think the Hobbits need to import more Orcs into the Shire for the sake of diversity and inclusion and Elves need to import more Trolls into Rivendell as well

Yes

No

[msmissydc]

No, mainly because racism is based on the false notion that some "races" are better than others on wrong premises and to create a version of superiority towards others.
While we dont know if what tolkien was trying to achive with the races he created because the simarilion wasn't fnished. The differences between the races are not created, they are real. They are not based on wrong assumptions and outside views but facts.
Elves are literally immortal when it comes to age. Angels are godlike beings with powerful magic. Dwarves are actually the mastercrafter they are depicted as.
And the whole story of lotr is how the outside view towards humans and hobbits was wrong and they can achieve more as well.
The orcs We see are brainwashed by creation towards following their evil leader.
Also isn't fellowship the incanartion of diversity? Its a group of all different races and even species in case of Gandalf. Also do we know if dwarves and hobbits are the same species? We know that elves and humans are.(probably somewhere in the simarilion explained)

[Asker]

year after year, there's always some article talking about LOTR's racism towards the dark-skin races

[msmissydc]

So the telegraph is completely taking things out of context and the author probably doesn't understand scientific discourse. You can see what the original course description is saying online and what the telegraph is making from that is just BS. https://uoncourses.org/module/HIST2056

[Asker]

taking things out of context or deliberately spreading misinformation?

[msmissydc]

Dont know the author of the telegraph article. You have to have a specific goal in mind with writing things like that. Even if you don't understand it. The telegraph is generally right wing leaning. So its not far fetched saying it was deliberately done trying to make university sound bad. But without further information lets not focus on speculations.

[msmissydc]

Its just a bad research from the writer considering the sources are free online and how they understand them.

[Asker]

the source is just the LOTR novel and course description you provide discusses race relations which inevitably will lead to discussions on racism nvm the course lecturer called the story racist

[msmissydc]

Race relations can be discussed without resulting in calling something and someone racist.
The article specifically says course partitioners need to accept lotr as racist.

[Asker]

not if a particular narrative is being pushed out

[msmissydc]

If a narrative is pushed then that already disqualifies it as scientific.

[Asker]

there's nothing scientific about a story

[msmissydc]

I am talking about the university course. The story can be whatever it wants to be and whatever people interpret.

[Asker]

there's still nothing scientific about it even as a course

and not all courses are scientific

[msmissydc]

Analyzing literature texts and setting them into a historic frame is a scientific method. Why would a university course be not scientific? Otherwise it wouldn't be payed for by the university.

[Asker]

not when the story itself is based on fiction, not historical events and given you've already claimed the story can be interpreted subjectively, there's even less science involved

real science is objective and requires empirical evidence e. g. mechanics, economics, astronomy not subjective elements like feelings e. g. literature, art, music etc.

never mind that a course like this has no real world applications

[msmissydc]

You do know that you can view literature through a factual lens, right? Because that's what the course is doing. There is a difference between analyzing a text even literary texts, and describing your feelings about a text. These are two fundamentally different things.
Not every scientific course has real world applications. At least not direct applications. That being said, the course specifically states its intended real world application.

[Asker]

"describing your feelings about a text" yes that's exactly what the course is doing

there's no real science to be drawn from LOTR especially if racism is to be discussed

obviously the course will state to have real world applications so gullible students can enrol

[msmissydc]

Why do you think there is no real science to be drawn from it? Do you know in which timeframe it was written? It has obvious hints at the real world from that time.

[Asker]

because the story of LOTR is fiction, not science

physics is science, calculus is science, sports is science. literature is not science

[msmissydc]

These are mostly natural sciences, which are only one part of science. One of the first sciences was actually philosophy, which already contradicts your statement.
Where is sports more science than literature?
So you bought examples, how would you define science then?

[Asker]

LOTR doesn't use any natural science. the story has trees that walk and talk

philosophy applies to the real world not fictional world

sports involves empirical data and covers nutrition, physical feats, anatomy etc.

science is the empirical study of the world around us

[purplepoppy]

More likely students will have to look at the arguments for and against this idea rather than accept them. The simple fact is Tolkien lived in the West Midlands of England which had a mix of heavy industry and quiet little country villages. This is the inspiration for his works not imaginary racism

[Asker]

so there is racism in the story?

[purplepoppy]

I'm sure he was racist by today's standards because everyone was back then but he wasn't pushing a race hate agenda. White can mean pure or blessed and have done so for centuries before he wrote anything.

[Asker]

he wouldn't be racist by today's standards if that's how you're describing his writing to be

now of course someone else can twist his writing to imply something else

[strateguy632]

that fellowship of the ring WAS diversity, a dwarf an elf and hobbits and men. in order: men and hobbits cooperated, next elf welcome strangers too. the covered eyes in book 2, is the essence of equality! "they try to blindfold Gimli he objects. So all [ALL] be blindfolded. Legolas is loath to miss an opportunity to see the trees of Lothlorien but complies for the good of the group." diverse does not mean every type, just including diverse is still diversity. add to black hair: red blond brown!

[AngryCarl2]

Yes, it's a clear case of Elven Supremacy. The Orcs are completely demonized. It's not even that subtle.

[AI Opinion]

J. R. R. Tolkien's work has been subject to many interpretations, and discussions about potential racist undertones are ongoing. The story reflects Tolkien's worldviews shaped by his era. Some argue that the depiction of different races like Orcs might hint at problematic stereotypes, while others believe it's simply a fantasy narrative with no intention of racism. The texts have been analyzed and enjoyed by diverse fans who find varying meanings and lessons in them. It's a complex topic that's part of broader discussions about representation in literature. 📚🌍

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

The Lord of The Rings has a litany of issues in its writing alone, let alone the fact that it does go into some racial stereotypes with a lot of its fantasy races. If that teacher wants to conduct their class that way, that’s their prerogative.

[Asker]

what racial stereotypes would these be?

[loveslongnails]

There are good folk and bad folk. What's racist about it?

[Asker]

read the article

[loveslongnails]

I did, and it's one guys opinion which is, in my opinion, nonsense. Good vs Evil is always depicted "white/gold/blue or rainbow colors vs black/red". Extended it to black skinned people or orcs (who worked underground as diggers and smelters) is this guys idea of trying to find a problem that he wants to exist.

Moreover, let's try to remember- it's a FANTASY. Are there parallels in real life? Sure, but there's no hidden agenda. What I find really stupid is how some critics are calling the author "woke" when it's nothing but a literary hypothesis, and nothing more.

[Anonymous]

Nope, it represents diversity.

Humans, Elves, Dwarfs, Hobbits, Orcs, Trolls, Goblins... many different races working for their traditional goals.

[Rightonein]

Never though that