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I get your good intention but the blame game is not helping here at all.
I mean how do you imagine would mothers to teach their sons how to score with girls? "Honey, in order to score with girls you do this, that, X, Y, Z, tell her she's this, do that to her and then wait X amount of days before popping the question". That would be extremely awkward and may even shock their sons and impact their psychological state. They are extremely sensitive during puberty.
Better get them some premium pornhub membership at least and make sure their children don't grow up in poverty like I did. Few things (including incels and "fake nice guys") repulse women more than a poor, young man.
Hmm. I was just thinking moms should let their sons know that young girls like to go out to clubs and sleep with guys who exhibit common traits including cockiness, bodybuilding and obnoxiousness. Better to say the truth.
That would severely impact their raising, making them think it's okay to pump and dump women, not just bitches.
There aren't tricks to getting laid. A son of mine would not grown-up feeling so entitled.
-_- C'mon you know that's not quite true.
![The Moms of Incels: How incels are made.]()
A good first step is achieving the physique required by Abercrombie and Fitch employees. Deep down you know what a hot guy looks like. Your son would benefit greatly if he knew too. That's all I'm saying.
You have a brother in a similar predicament, if I recall. I also asked if he ever sought your advice and if so, what was it. I don't believe I got an answer to that.
I'm quite convinced the overwhelming majority of people not getting laid do not feel entitled to getting laid. And yet quite a few of them are still unhappy about it.
I don't think telling these people that they're not entitled to sex is helpful at all, in fact it will be quite insulting to those who never felt entitled in the first place.
Has not feeling entitled helped your brother's love life? I kind of doubt it has. It won't help your son's love life, either. It will help him to become a better human, but it won't make him more attractive to women, nor will it make him happier.
So let's assume your son has no sense of entitlement to a healthy sex life (and frankly, a life without sex is *not* healthy), yet he's still not enjoying any sex nor finding any romantic love. What advice do you offer to make him more attractive to the opposite sex (or same sex, if that's his thing)?
Or is "Don't feel entitled" and/or "sex isn't that big of a deal" all you got?
This isn't the vast majority. This is a specific group who believe they can be hateful toward women, refuse to make any female friends, then whine about not being able to get laid as if women owe them sex.
Yes, I agree the author is focusing on a minority who, as you say (and I very much agree), feel entitled and hate women. However, for the purposes of my discussion with you, I would like to focus on the vast majority. Those who don't feel entitled. Those who don't hate women. People like your brother, for example.
So, I'll ask my questions again.
Has not feeling entitled helped your brother's love life? What, if any, advice have you ever given him?
So let's assume your son has no sense of entitlement to a healthy sex life (and frankly, a life without sex is *not* healthy), yet he's still not enjoying any sex nor finding any romantic love. What advice do you offer to make him more attractive to the opposite sex (or same sex, if that's his thing)?
Or is "Don't feel entitled" and/or "sex isn't that big of a deal" all you got?
Actually I don't think it's so extreme as to, dosge the question.
He's bringing up a good point about your own brother. I wouldn't be surprised if he never got truth/good advice.
There's some kind of block I see in women not wanting to share what works. Some do, but a lot of them really resist it. I don't understand this. I can only think the awnser is they don't want guys who don't have naturally to fake it.
@Robertcw LOL. Far from all women are attracted to bodies like that. You sound very insecure. A man can get far on being a gentleman, passionate about things in his life, respectful, loving and honest. Sure everyone has their preferences as well but those are very widely spread. Attraction happens from so much more than looks too, it's a chemical reaction and it's dependent on other things as well that you only take in subconciously. That's why you can sometimes be attracted to someone who's not your usual type.
Me trying to find a girl to date in 2019:
![The Moms Of Incels: How Incels Are Made!]()
I'm literally better off just staying single in this era.
@Robertcw
In fairness, she may not be dodging the question. It just might be that she doesn't know how to answer. God knows I don't know how to answer this for some people.
You'll note that similar answers, or lack thereof, are popping up from MzAsh and Ellie-V. I don't think this comes from a desire from them to block any man's success. I think it possibly comes from simply not thinking things through very much, or perhaps they think there's nothing that can be done (in most cases, I disagree with that, too).
I've encountered this before, where it seems people prioritize that we get them to see that they're not entitled to sex, which is quite right. However, I've long argued that to the majority this information is useless as they never felt entitled to it in the first place.
After that, the let's-convince-them-their-not-entitled-to-sex crowd seem to have nothing more to offer, except the occasional "sex isn't that big a deal" or "you don't need sex to have a happy life" (which ignores the 2 million years of evolution that has instilled in virtually all of us that sex is both an important and very healthy drive, and it ignores the high suicide rates among those who don't get it, and ignores that it's such a basic drive that it's not just humans, but we observe bad effects in both other primates and cetaceans who are deprived of it). by the way, I've noted that the advisors in this camp tend to be people who are either not particularly interested in a relationship themselves (asexuals) or people who are themselves in relationships. They might point to some aunt, or cousin, or friend, who is a virgin and say, "You see? My aunt/cousin/friend isn't getting any and *they're* happy." This glosses over the fact that it's entirely possible the aunt/cousin/friend is actually profoundly unhappy but is putting up a brave front so as not to alarm loved ones or so as not to be ridiculed (I have personally known this to happen)
It also ignores the fact that it's entirely possible the aunt/cousin/friend might be asexual, or not particularly interested in sexual relations.
Frankly, I don't think many people like MlleCake or Ellie-V or MzAsh are being cruel, or that they don't want these guys to succeed, or that they're even necessarily dodging the question. I think they might not have an answer or they haven't really thought about it.
I've thought about it because I've known, befriended, and love some incels, as has my brother, who counsels them.
Ok, so what, exactly, IS "the question" as you see it?
My brother is content with his life and also has a pretty good idea of a few things he could do differently if he wanted a girlfriend enough.
The major problems most self-described incels have are often related to extreme introversion and no confidene in their skills to break out of that cycle. Your parents might be able to help you through that as a child, but if, by your teenage years, you have turned that into a rage toward the people you most hope to socialize with, there is very little that your parents can control about that.
But heck - join Toastmasters. Join social clubs. Get your own ass out there, in different settings, until you learn how to be comfortable and confident in it.
Believe it or not, women have to work at it too. It doesn't just happen by accident for us either.
And, I didn't dodge your question - I was out enjoying my life all weekend.
"The major problems most self-described incels have are often related to extreme introversion and no confidene in their skills to break out of that cycle."
VERY MUCH AGREED! And that is what most incels fail dramatically to understand! And that is where I would try very hard to help my son/daughter.
". Your parents might be able to help you through that as a child, but if, by your teenage years, you have turned that into a rage toward the people you most hope to socialize with, there is very little that your parents can control about that."
I might be more optimistic about that than you. After all, that's what therapists and counselors do, and most of their clients are not children.
"But heck - join Toastmasters. Join social clubs. Get your own ass out there, in different settings, until you learn how to be comfortable and confident in it."
Again, VERY MUCH AGREE! Again, most incels don't seem to get this. To your list, I would add that they should try to make themselves physically more attractive. Most people are capable of doing this.
"Believe it or not, women have to work at it too. It doesn't just happen by accident for us either. "
Indeed. I think most male incels do know this (I could be wrong, however). But I have read with my own eyes and heard with my own ears some male incels claim there's no such thing as a female incel. How I wish I could introduce them to my brother's friend who once told my brother she loves him.
Alas, I celebrated last weekend by getting the flu.
:(
Show him when he gets of age what are the rights and wrongs of trying to date, show him this app to get answers to questions you can't answer, debunk the myths that are out there about how to flirt with women and teach him how he should deal with rejection to his advances... personally i think there should be a courtship class/PSAs in school or have it be part of sex ED
The thought of my mom teaching me about having good sex is akin to 🤮
Blame the dads tbh, it's kinda risky for the mom to talk to her son about this, it would be ineffective.
And isn't that the guy who commited a mass shooting then killled himself?
No I think you should raise your son to be manly so girls will naturally like him. And by manly I mean smart and protective and stuff. Not just macho.
yet girls still so for macho each and every time.
Bruh ew I would not want my mom teaching me how to have sex get yo nasty ass outta here
I don’t think of celibacy as a bad thing.
So I’m just going to raise him to be brilliant, kind, and creative.
I think he'll end up as a "Nice Guy" if you do that but whatever.
He'll probably see celibacy as a bad thing regardless.
He'll rope if he's short and ugly
How do you respond if your hypothetical son disagrees with you. What if he joins in with the overwhelming majority of humanity and feels that a life without romantic love and love making is a bad thing? What then?
All I can do is share my perspective but if he is a grown adult and still cannot see that there is so much more to life than getting laid, I probably won’t be able to help him. I will suggest he seek professional counseling. The rest of up to him.
A very honest answer. Thank you.
I feel compelled to mention that most people, including the ones who are incels, are very aware there's more to life than sex. This is of no help or comfort to them, and in some cases just comes off as dismissive, as though their sadness isn't, or at least shouldn't be, a big deal.
Would you ever consider asking your hypothetical son, "Do you think you could make yourself more attractive to women?"
No. Being a mother wouldn’t make me blind. If he is unattractive then I would be able to tell, and I’m pretty sure he would be self aware about that too.
You really can’t change how you look unless you get surgery. No matter how he looks I will always discourage him from that.
From that point, his best bet is learning the skill of serenity and self love because the problem is that the so called “incels” are seeking validation in the wrong places.
But then again, if my son is an adult, there is only so much I can do for him.
I do practice Hoodoo and Kemetology. So I could perform a spell or a ritual for him if he wanted me to.
There’s no guarantee he’d ask me or even think of it as a possibility.
I wasn't necessarily referring to appearance.
However, since you brought it up, I respectfully disagree. I think most people are capable of looking better, even without surgery.
The incels my brother works with are not seeking validation. They are seeking to fulfill a very deeply rooted biological drive which is 2 million years in the making (500 million if you go beyond human sexuality all the way back to the evolution of sex). They are understandably sad and frustrated that it ain't happening for them.
What is Kemetology? What spells would you prescribe?
There are other people out there who cannot have sex for whatever reason and still live fulfilling and productive lives.
So honestly, I do not understand the mentality behind the so called incels. If all you can focus on is ONE thing that you do not have—no matter what it is—there may be something else going on and the solution isn’t to have sex in the case of this specific situation. This entitled and needy behavior needs real treatment.
Kemetology is just a word for ancient African spirituality, hence my practice of hoodoo (not voodoo).
I would do spells that will help him with self esteem and self love because in my eyes, that is where the real problem is.
With better self love habits, comes confidence and pride on its own. I’d simply help him adjust his attitude, not only so that he can have a better chance at peace but also because many women can and will overlook a bad face if their is substance of character to compensate.
@Bluemax : Or maybe she means to say that she intends to raise him to want to save it for marriage. If so, she'd best also ensure he winds up going to schools that aren't overrun with complete douchebags. Because he'll never find a wife if he's forced to attend a school full of douchebags. I've been there. Story of my life.
Here's what happens to you if you attend a school worth attending, like my one sister did: you get happily married.
Here's what happens if you are made to attend a school full of raging douches, like what happened to me:
- You find yourself one of the only dudes who isn't shitty. The shitty dudes sense you're not shitty like them, and hate you for it. You have a hard time making friends. So you retreat into your room and make comics, and try to publish them online.
- The girls are 99% sluts. Who only refuse to sleep with (or for that matter, even be polite) to you, because they can sense you have higher morals than what they deserve. So they treat you as shitty as they view themselves. The other 1% are already married / dating someone, and are therefore not an option.
In college, I didn't really care if a gal wasn't interested in sex. But she better treat me with basic dignity and respect, as I intend to do to her. I had little patience for total cunts. And they were everywhere.
I’m not going to tell my son save his virginity till marriage and I’m certainly not going to encourage him to find a wife... AT SCHOOL.
@ObscuredBeyond
It has been my experience that the overwhelming majority of women have treated me with dignity and respect. If I found myself in a position where the majority of women weren't treating me with dignity and respect, my first inclination is to examine myself to see what, if anything, I'm doing that be offputting about my own behavior. Or am I misinterpreting them altogether.
@Ellie-V
Of course there are people who can't have sex who lead happy and fulfilling lives. I personally know some.
This does not mean that because it's suitable for some, it is suitable for all. Nor does it mean that because some can cope well, all can cope well. Different people have different temperaments. Different people frankly have different sex drives. It is entirely possible, and I believe highly probable, that these differences are innate.
You seem to be approaching this as if sex isn't a HUGE part of the human experience. I believe that might be a difference of opinion between us that is unbridgeable. I do think to the majority of people, not having sex and love is a profoundly unhappy thing (and I'm not talking about going without it for a few weeks, or even months, or even a year... but decades). Yes, it is but one aspect of their lives. But it's a huge aspect of most people's lives.
This is because there is a huge biological drive, not societal (since it pre-existed society by about 2 million years), that is engrained in virtually every single cordate on planet earth. That primates and cetaceans who don't mate overall live measurably shorter lives is evidence of this.
Nor do I agree with you that people who are unhappy about not finding love or sex are somehow defective, or needy, or clingy, or entitled. They're simply human.
Are you aware that most therapists and counselors that your hypothetical son would be sent to would not really agree with you? The trend in therapy today is not to merely be serene, but actually make changes. According to my brother, who is a counselor, and my friend, who is a therapist, most mental health care pros are going to counsel your son to do what he can to attract someone in addition to remaining as calm and serene as possible. Also, they're not going to proscribe any magic.
I'm all for trying to be as serene as possible with one's predicaments, ONLY IF NOTHING ELSE CAN BE DONE.
You seem to think that it's close to impossible to become more attractive. I profoundly disagree. People can make their attitudes and most can make their looks more attractive (and I'm not talking about surgery either).
I already said that
I guess it goes to show that a guys parental upbringing has a bigger impact on his dating life more than the other way around
Moms of sons... if you don't want them to be pathetic incels, marry your child's father before getting pregnant and don't divorce him.
If a boy needs his mom to teach him how to be a man he's already screwed. This is really why you need a father in the household. Someone's got to man up if the boy is going to learn to man up.
This left so much to be desired. You could have held back some or go overboard with bull points but you've done neither.
~Mr Bails Extraordinaire
not saying I disagree with anything you wrote but being an incel has a lot more to do with looks than it has to do with the mindset
Whilst I do agree that Elliot Roger was the product of inferior parenting, I do think that laying the blame for some extremely obvious mental health issues at the mother's door is ridiculous.
How about teaching sons to be gentlemen and not expect things in life simply because they were born with a penis? Revolutionary!
Incels are made by being ugly and/or being 5'9" or shorter and therefore being deprived of affection and love. Nothing else.
Incels are desperate pussies MGTOW is the way blaming women is pointless
Doesn't MGTOW blame women though?
@Syrian_survivor No, MGTOW's blame the system, Incels blame women.
@Landshrk0068 ahaaa thank you for the info :3
![The Moms of Incels: How incels are made.]()
Here have a puppy
MGTOWs will never reproduce and pass on their genes, this makes the movement irrelevant in the first place.
@ForbesMagazine Yeah, I know, but at least they think they're happy.
@ForbesMagazine Not if they get a surrogate or if artificial wombs becomes a thing. MGTOW could therefore bypass women and relationships and raise a child as long as he had the financial means to do so.
Incel is just a title used by people with a terrible personality.
Why is the mom being blamed?
Isn't it the dad's responsibility to teach his son masculinity?
It’s both parents really. The father is supposed to show him how to be a man and the mother is supposed to show him how to respond to women and such, as she is the first female he has ever met. If his mother throws wild and violent temper tantrums on a daily basis and your father is scared of her, I’m sure it will make the son an incel for sure.
Well, only the woman can give first hand facts straight from the source.
The man can share what worked for him, if anything, but he can't state the fact because he is not, in fact, a woman.
How is that any different from what I said?
in america being a single mother is a common thing
Why are majority of incel of white dudes?
Pretty sure whites are a minority:
https://incels.wiki/w/Demographics_of_inceldom
Also, Elliot was a Hapa.
They aren't. The white dudes are most vocal.
No this fat white incel said blacks can't be incels only Asians and whites for the most part
@Xlink Thank the left/feminists
How does it affect left you if your right if anything you should be alpha male. Pulling all the bitches lol.
Incels are just fat or super skinny nerdy guys who dont go out or have real life friends or a job or career who live with their mok
@ForbesMagazine
Good lord! There's a wiki for incels?
@Bluemax Yeah, I wasn't even sure if I wanted to link it... but the information is decent.
@ForbesMagazine Awesome link to that wiki. Lots of information there.
If Elliott rodgers had been a victim he wouldn't be called white he'd be called mixed race so I guess thats a factor
He's white bro. I know the who bi-racial kid thing but he's white. He looks white most people treat him as white and he was raised by white people.
Same way people say zendaya black when she isn't he's white
Most incels are ethnic, but they either don't speak English or don't know what their situation is.
Most incels are Chinese and Indian
Doesn't matter what race he is its what fits the narrative. If he had been shot instead of the shooter people wouldn't be saying he was white, you might but generally thats not what you'd here.
My native i watch 3 2 hours video on guys and all were white. The fat white kid said Asian dudes and whites dudes. But Asian dude be having swag so I dont know about that.
https://youtu.be/DpCsV-0iigk
Incel interview lol
Lol school shooter 95% are white kids bro that's big FACTS so when you tell me this I think white guy probably nerdy
When you type in incel the first person comes up is a skinny as white dude and ths next fucki g 25 post are all white dude get the fuck out here with that narrative bullshit
These anecdote "arguments" are retarded dude. Stop making them.
I think in Ca most incels are suburban white guys. Why? Well, in urban areas whites are a minority.
Except in SoCal, where whites are a majority, but only if they are upper class. Poor whites are fucked in SoCal.
Why? White people raise their kids exactly opposite of everything considered 'swag, cool, hip' whatever. They're like the anti-that. So if you're a woman, a white guy in his teens or 20's is basically opposite of everything you want in a young guy.
Therefore, they get left out unless someone is conservative and wants/expects a conservative white guy with money. Just my opinion.
That or they fake fitting in by learning how to dance to hip hop even though growing up their parents probably never olayed hip hop once in their lives. That's the truth.
Even in aunts and uncles have a 'no hip hop' policy for music. They hate it.