Girls, why do you feel confident that guys are going to be okay with the friendzone?

[Anonymous]

Let me make it 100% clear that anybody (man or woman) has the right to reject a romantic relationship. Attraction isn’t a choice but respect is.

If any guys gets angry or worse for you (tactfully) rejecting him that is HIS problem. Not yours. I’ve had to reject women in the past and had the very unpleasant experience of them not taking it well. So I know how it feels.

But one thing for damn sure is I have never manipulated a friendzoned girl into doing favors for me, using her for my advantage, etc. She might of done things for me on her own volition but I never asked for one way favors.

Men don’t seek out women “just to be friends with”. So why is that so many women feel like this is okay vice versa?

I haven’t been friendzoned in years but I see it happening to other younger guys and I feel sorry for them.

Updates

+1 y

I’m not against being friends with women. There is one woman I’ve been friends with almost 15 years now. It’s worked out because I never seriously saw her as any more than that and she treats me fairly (most of the time). I’ve seen her at her best (top of her business game) and worst times (right after her divorce). And her likewise.

But we became friends though business. It was happenstance.

Updates

+1 y

I did NOT put up a dating app profile saying I want to be “friends only”. Seriously when is the last time you have seen a hetero man do that? Never

[modelUN242]

My boyfriend has been friend-zoned and he told me how awful it was and broke his heart.
Plus, I did have some guy friends when I first talked to him and he did point out the signs of them liking me, and I brushed it off because I saw girls and guys being friends all the time. And my guy friends would constantly ask me to hang out with them one-on-one even though they were telling me about other girls that they liked and I guess I didn’t want to believe it. But, I ended up straight up asking one of them and saying bluntly that I wasn’t interested like that and that I think we shouldn’t be friends because friend-zoning is bad. And the guy got so angry and I’d never seen it before. So, I just blocked him and now I’m much more careful. I do realize now that guys and girls can’t be really friends.

I’d also like to mention that my former guy friend tricked me into going on a date with him because he said this girl he was talking to bailed on him. He even said he reserved a table which he did not. I felt bad so I went but didn’t wear anything fancy. It was pretty awkward and he paid for my food even though I was like I can pay for it myself.
The next time we hung out, I told him about my boyfriend and he got really pissy, I thought that he would get the hint but apparently he didn’t. He was also insulting my boyfriend and any guy I told him about.

[Asker]

That’s unacceptable behavior from those guys. I take they are young but still that’s not right.

Your best bet is always speak up early. If a “guy friend” asks you to hang out one on one you need to be honest right off the bat.

One of the problems guys encounter is if we are too blunt early about being interested it can scare girls off (even if the girl was interested too). So we have to play this tight rope game. Unfortunately some women don’t get the hint or worse they know damn well he’s interested but they play dumb because they love the attention/favors.

[modelUN242]

I know 😭 I should have, and one of the guys who asked me on a hike or to eat out had a girlfriend.

[Asker]

Some women automatically accused me of being “bitter” and “misogynistic” on this take without reading the details of what I’m saying.

The problem is that young boys/men are not being taught the proper way to handle women. We are either being taught to kiss their asses or we are being taught macho crap (the former being more common).

Men need to be assertive but also prepared to handle rejection. When a woman is tactfully honest earlier then we need to thank her. She might not be interested but she respected us enough to tell the truth. We also need to respect ourselves and move on quick it’d there is no potential.

A remember a rare moment years ago when I had a woman tactfully reject me. It stung but bizarrely I felt strangely good about it.

I thanked her and I just felt better that she respected me. In my experience most women are just not that classy.

[modelUN242]

Those women are bitter themselves, you posted a great question. Also, I’ve been rejected a couple of times (when trying to date someone) meaning the other person told me they didn’t feel a connection or etc. And I did appreciate their honesty even though it stung.
I can tell you a lot of girls like having orbiters or therapist.

[Asker]

Yep exactly. Whenever if see someone going off on a unprovoked diatribe/rant I actually feel sorry for them. It’s just a reflection of themselves.

There have been some very good insightful responses from women on here too. That feels more reassuring. The way I see it if I can get just one girl (or guy) to have a better approach to these tough situations then it was worth the dialogue.

At the end of the day it’s about finding out WHAT is right vs BEING right. If I get presented with hard evidence that challenges my pre-existing beliefs than I am open minded and strong enough to change. But I find that many people are just too weak to do that.

[modelUN242]

Yeah

[Tanish604]

I understand what you're saying. I feel it's bad when we know the guy's feelings/intentions and we just keep him there. Had to learn it the hard way one of those guys who meant a lot to me bashed me for it and I didn't realize how much it hurt him.. I basically made him my therapist while I was with my boyfriend.. I joked that I was his therapist too which angered him more. Ever since I realized how much it actually hurts them I stopped.. I realized only when both people are not attracted to each other can a friendship happen otherwise either they're lying or we're manipulating them..

[Asker]

Thank you. You GET it. You also understand this at a young age please don’t ever change.

It’s not romantic/sexual rejection that hurts the most with the friendzone. That sucks but that’s life. You will encounter people who don’t feel the same way you feel about them. A mature person just accepts that.

But what burns the man more is the presumptuous confidence women have that “he is okay with it”. You are disrespecting his masculinity if you just assume he’s okay with being one of your girlfriends. This damages male self esteem and creates misogyny more then most women will ever realize. Every man wants to feel like an alpha male (even if he isn’t). Confidently friendzoning him is the absolute worst thing you can do (worse than ghosting in my opinion)

But anyway I’m glad you learned your lesson. Just don’t do it again to someone else.

[Lilionna]

Yep not I ask if the guy is ok with be friends or would he rather go our separate ways.

[Asker]

@Lilionna make sure to give your girlfriends the same advice. Some women fear the guy will get upset. But if he does that’s reassurance you made the right decision. Remember that.

[Lilionna]

... I would if I had friends anymore do to um health issues I no longer go out much (pain is a bitch some times) so yeah. But I’ll be sure to pass on the advice to the females I speak to on the internet lol

[Asker]

@Lilionna lol. Well I notice women respond better to female advice. But unfortunately the advice can be poison (radical feminism). We need to get back to being considerate of the other side.

It is estimated that 5% of the human population are sociopaths (varying degrees). Some of these women saying bs like “the friendzone doesn’t exist” are either very misguided or sociopaths.

You can’t change a sociopath. You can only identify them and then deal with them (usually by cutting them out of your life). But as for the women who are just inexperienced such as yourself: you can and did change for the better. Those are the type of people who need to hear sound advice more often. But it sucks that society is trying to brainwash them to the contrary.

[SnowyOwl]

Attraction isn't a choice... that is so real xD
"Men don’t seek out women “just to be friends with”." you dont? uwu im sad now

wait wait wait. that's not true. I think the only issue here is bad communication. I like to have guy friends, and i believe guys should like to have girlfriends, and those two would be for the same reason... relationship advice.
Okay, its also nice to have a group of friends where there's guys and girls, so you can play board games, go bowling, to the beach, etc...

I agree that its weird to a opposite sex friend that you hangout alone with, and in private, and have deep conversations with... that can get confusing, cuz that's basically dating ~_~

But if you have opposite gender friends you need to make it clear that you guys are bros, and that goes for girls and guys. Like, if a girl is like sister to you, call her sister by all means, haha. Don't invite her to you house, if there's no one else around, and make sure you dont find yourselves in that risky kind of situation that sets "the mood".

I have tons of guy friends, they're like cousins tbh. I know their families, and siblings, and I ask them relationship advice.
Like ok, maybe i've had crushes on them at some point, or they had crushes on me.
Like you said, attraction isn't a choice. But we talked it out, made sure not to put ourselves in risky situation that could confuse us. And we remain friends because there's more we like about eachother than just our pretty faces, lol

my bros have been with me through thick and thin. im eternally grateful for that

[Asker]

I have no problem with women who are up front and honest from the start. While it’s a very uncomfortable conversation it’s also respectful. She cares enough to show him where he stands.

However I get more pissed when they conveniently “play dumb” for their own ends. I’ve never done that. I’ve might of been quiet but I didn’t reach out to her as an “orbiter” for favors and attention.

[SnowyOwl]

yea, playing dumb is immature and deceiving in any case...

[Asker]

I’ve met grown as women in their 30s who still do this (and try to justify it). Too many of them use the excuse “oh I don’t want him getting angry” to pull this crap. But more often than not they know the guys isn’t a threat and just want to take advantage of him for their own ends.

Again I’m not saying guys are beyond reproach. But I just don’t see women getting called out for doing this crap very often.

[SnowyOwl]

i mean, those girls doing that are pretty shitty, I agree. BUt the situation involves 2 parties. If you're pursuing a girl like that, than you're in denial and deep down you know somethings wrong but you lack the confidence to say you deserve better. And that has happened to me as well. But i dint go getting angry at the guy for playing dumb and using me. I simply cut them out. If people start getting angry about players (girls or guys), then 1) they are getting more attention than they deserve 2) we're making this world an angrier place 3) we're not focusing on personal growth and healing

so i would say, either way, focusing on calling people out is not worth our time. They have their own challenges that come along with being shitty. I mean they're in that place for a reason.
I believe in kindness. So if you can't be kind to someone, than just distance yourself

[Asker]

You are right about the confidence issue and that was something I struggled with in my youth. But it’s more complicated than that. Men have another Achilles heel and it’s ego. Ego makes guys goal oriented and they think taking action is what will ultimately make them successful. While this is true in many parts of life it can ineffective or worse when trying to date a female.

Again this whole question started after I (regretfully lol) decided to get back on GAG again. I saw some younger guy post experience with struggling with the friendzone. It dredged up some old bad memories I had. But even more recently I’ve seen grown ass women in their 30s attempt this crap on me (I didn’t tolerate it).

With all this “gender equality” going on I wonder if this is something women will ever come to fully understand about men. I’m not talking just about sexual gratification either. I’ve been in the reverse roles on that on a few isolated incidents in my life when it comes to being approached for sex (aggressively once). It’s helped me understand the females position better. But I’m talking about how men just want to be respected.

Respect isn’t always “being nice” to someone either. It’s being tactfully (not rudely) honest and communicating effectively. Reason being you respect where the guy is coming from. He is just doing his job by trying to date and his time, money and resources are not infinite.

[btbc92]

Wait for what? There is no such thing as the friendzone. People or should I say in this category, men like yourself are not healthy and attractive people to begin with. You are selfish. There are men are who comfortable in just being friends, and if compatible and it's meant to be. We rather give it a try with them. Your friends only because we need to get to know YOU. Many and plenty of heterosexual men have to do that. Your just insecure, controlling, abusive, manipulative, and your basically in it for sex because you can't even have a healthy relationship with women. Guys like you only take this route because you scared of rejection from random women out on the street. Even then, you're only there for self. It's a good way to weed out bad men like yourself. You act no different than the men you described to make it out your all good when your not. Your just passive-aggressive while they're just aggressive. That's unattractive and it says what kind of partner you'll be. A selfish one. It's guys like you am I scared for life with men and so glad I never dated, ever. Not worth the heartache or the emotional abuse. it worked out not because you didn't see her as anything more. It worked out because of your friends and desired her friendship. If it didn't work out, it is not because you grew to have feelings or whatever the heck you want to call it. But because of your selfish INTENT with it. It's selfish of you to assume every woman is trying to use you for anything yet you use us the same way but sexually. How about you pick better women as both as either friends or a potential partner. That's your problem. Or else it says about you. Being who you attract.

[Asker]

You didn’t read the details of my question because you fear that is might change your opinion.

I did my best to considerate of the females perspective of this. Again this is not an issue of sex/romance but more of an issue of respect.

[btbc92]

I read EVERY DETAIL. Are you kidding me? It doesn't change my opinion. You know 0 about me or my life, and I am very aware of what kind of man you are. Somebody who is miserable because you don't have a healthy ROMANTIC relationship. Because all you care about is yourself. All you did was show me the real world about selfish people, and that I cannot connect with everybody and guard myself for the right kind of people. Think God, I have the right people in my life. People like you are single for a reason. Your the one who cannot get it together. It is not the other women.

[btbc92]

You did NOTHING. Your goal was to get a sexual relationship, PERIOD. END of STORY.

[Asker]

You showed me what kind of person you are: absolutely miserable and spiteful. Don’t deny it because you were truly happy you wouldn’t of turned this into a personal diatribe vs focusing on the topic on hand. I didn’t make assumptions about yourself and attack your position in life.

You will never change people’s minds by insulting them. I just see it as self reflection when people do that.

Also for the record I have started dating someone and it’s gotten sexual. You probably made a naive and ignorant assumption that this question was asked out of sexual frustration. It wasn’t. I actually read another guys story on here and it made me feel bad for him.

But anyway you are the type that cares more about being right vs WHAT is right. So I’m going to wish you the best of luck with your angry life. I actually feel sorry for you.

[btbc92]

From what I gathered with men like yourself, your not stable-minded people. You judge, and you use your insecurities to hurt others with it because of society and peer pressure. All you care about is what you can get out of it. No innocence or purity whatsoever. A woman especially, not just me as a Christian see dating as important as we consider marriage as sacred and friendships meaningful. There needs to be compatibility. If you and I were supposed "Friends" let alone you try asking me out. Do you not wonder and THINK about WHY you are doing this or are you just doing things and asking for something you are ignorant of? And I am not talking about just lack of experience, but that. Do you FULLY understand how SERIOUS this is? This is how I know you have personal issues.

1. Are you a virgin or not? Because I am.
2. Do you believe in premarital sex, masturbation, porn? Because I don't.
3. Do you believe in God and have a personal relationship with him? Because I do.
4. Are you at least a Christian? Because I have Christian beliefs. Just not religious Christianity, but spiritual as Jesus had preached and God originally intended.
5. Do you have any issues with mental health we should know about? Abuse in the past? How about things that may be considered deviant behavior? Are you a bully victim? Disability or physical issues we need to know?
6. What is your familial background? Educational?
7. What are your standards, morals, values, principles, etc with life, sex, family, children, marriage, faith, religion, any and everything?
8. What is your ambitions and desires for life?
9. How and what kind of friends do you have?
10. How others percieve you?
11. What are your intentions for wanting to date?
12. Do you want to get married?
13. Do you want children?
14. Do you have your life together or is getting there?
15. A home, car, etc to provide?

What the hell are you seeking women for and is bitter about the so-called friendzone?

[btbc92]

Not every woman is interested in dating or men on that level.
Not every woman wants sex o desires sex the same as you do.
Not every woman is going to want you just because your attractive, nice, likes what you do for them, etc.
Not every woman have the same intentions.
Not every women sees things or life the same way you do.
Not every woman wants what you WANT.

So I honestly don't understand why are YOU so threatened? I forgot. You aren't getting sex or have somebody to have as part of your master status. All you care about is yourself. You don't want real connections, romance, etc. You want superficial, something I myself am not interested in. Not only do I need to feel safe, but I also need something real. And God is the one who is in control. This means he decides who is available for me to try to date if that is what I personally want and who isn't good for me. God makes the decisions in my life concerning this but at the end of the day, I still have to choose. We all have free will to choose. A woman needs to build an emotional connection with a man, but at the same time, it depends on what KIND of woman you are dealing with. The woman you seem to be describing using you is somebody who may be similar to yourself. Either somebody who is manipulative and uses everybody for their pleasure, not just men. Or the girls who find sexual attraction and physical attraction to be very important. That means if they don't see themselves wanted to be in bed with you, they won't date you. Period. Many are based on physical needs and driven physically even if spiritually the desire more like marriage and a family. I have friends and had friends who were like that and went your route. Guess what? Ask the EX-BOYFRIENDS and more if it was a good idea.

[btbc92]

Friendships are a great way to see what and who the person is. You're not going to see that in dating because as a pastor, marriage speaker, and author had said: EVERYBODY is ON their BEST BEHAVIOR when dating. And then show the true selves later on. Watch not how they act, but how they REACT to things. That reveals who a person is. The boy is that wisdom. So men like you are not going to be playing my heartstrings and telling sweet nothings. I'll "play along" and then ask: what the hell do you want, fun times over? You up to something and you better tell me what it is before it gets told to me another way. And trust me, it will be found out. So my fair WARNING to you Asker. Don't play with fire, and do not play with God. God will reveal things to people if it means they are avoiding getting hurt because of your selfishness. That goes for me too. You better come correct and with good intent. But how you go about it will matter just as much. There is nothing wrong with desiring more. I respect a person's feelings unless they are preserved and ungodly. HOWEVER, I still have rules and standards in what I personally believe should be what a healthy relationship should be. I believe that dating and courting should be only served for marriage prospects only. I need a friend in a man, and it must be natural and organic. Not forced. You come into this relationship with hidden intent. That's what leaves people like you (girls included) miserable, unhappy, with dating, marriages, and relationship failure with more and likely so many ex-partners of some kind. That is a PROBLEM. It is a reflection of self. I have male friends for decades of friendships, they had crushes on me, but they never disrespected me. They respected my choice and agreed with what I had said because again, they never THOUGHT about that.

[btbc92]

See you don't think about these things. Many of you don't even bother to ASK these questions and more at ALL. You're either too scared, forget to ask, don't care, or don't think period. And then when you get too sexually involved, somebody gets "pregnant", or you get married and have marriage issues going to divorce, all of a SUDDEN you NOW what to know FAR TOO LATE. If you think that I am going to playing games with my romantic life though I never had a romantic life with anyone, you are SADLY MISTAKEN. This is why your too business playing games, attracting the same women who play the same games, you end up hating them, yet the girls who don't play games hurt them far worse and grow bitter about it. You need to fix your problems which is why you end up in the same cycle. I know why I am in the same cycle with such men like yourself. And that is me still needing to learn that I deserve better and God reminding me "It is not my FAULT, this happened!" Thank God, he protected me from such guys!

Mind you. This is not to judge you or to personally attack you. I am here to inform you, you need to change. Because the one who has to live with this is you.

[btbc92]

Buddy. I am not spiteful. That is YOU. Everything you say about me, is all actually YOU. It has nothing to do with me. I know what a healthy man looks like and what a healthy relationship and marriage look like. Let alone healthy friendships. It is not what you're describing which is all in your head. And reckless choices and decisions you either made or allowed. Not me. I am responsible as a woman for my OWN personal choices. You sadly seem like you cannot handle your own. Of course, you started dating somebody and it gotten sexual. Because that is the goal you wanted period. SEX. That's all. It's just SEX. Man, and that kind of relationship either doesn't last eventually and is toxic. It's just sex. Which is all you basically going to be getting. I am not interested in that kind of relationship. If you were so happy, why are you asking this question, and now admitting to me your getting sex? Like I really care if you are. All your trying to do is prove something to women who rejected you because you're that insecure and miserable. Would not be surprised who your laying up with is similar to yourself.

[btbc92]

So don't feel sorry for me. I am anger if anything by men like yourself who is lying and using women for their own pleasure. I don't care about being right. I care about doing what is right. You go and be in sexual sin if that is what YOU CHOOSE. I am not iNTERESTED in guys like yourself who fornicate outside of marriage and you tell me you pity me? Sex with a woman you barely even know. Smart. No thanks. There are men who doesn't do what you do and you got a woman who doesn't do what I do. Why ask such a question? Stop assuming every man is like you or has your same problem. I have helped men who were "stuck" have a different outlook on how they approach their relationships with women and few are already back on track and either rekindled a friendship and or are now dating because they listened. You attacked women with your question. Period. I stand for righteous judgment, and what I can see with the message you are presenting. You think you're doing others' favors, and your not. Your try to deviate from the actual issue, which is you presenting it as women who care about men for as just a friend is only doing it for herself. And yet you "punish" women who don't do what you accuse them of. That is you being a person who brought it upon yourself to attack WOMEN. And think you "dating" a woman, which is again, not dating, but sex, changes anything. It doesn't. It's just you trying to "attack" my self-esteem because I am a virgin who values meaningful relationships done right.

[btbc92]

I know and can easily get a partner if I want. That is your mistake to assume about me. It is my personal choice to not have one. And I am not just going to just date with every guy let alone the wrong one. So thank YOU, for doing good women a favor by going after women best suited for you. Plenty of good men don't seem to agree with you and told me to stick to my values and standards.

[sheikalana]

I usually distance myself from that person after friendzoneing them. I don't want to give them any fake hopes or expectations and it's not part of my essence to take advantage of people. There was this guy who was very interested in me and after I friendzoned him we still used to talk once in a while. He was ready to do anything for me my laptop broke and he wanted to buy me a new one, he wanted to buy me a Christmas gift and send me money I always refused. I had to distance myself from him because I didn't want to be this type of person who takes advantage of others.

[Asker]

You handled that the right way. Thank you

[Lilionna]

Well in some cases woman don’t actually realize it. They only have friend time feeling for a guy. (Which I made obvious from the start) Then in my case the guy acts like he’s fine with being friends but then tried to subtly get me to change my mind. This has happened so much that I now refuse to have any in person male friends. They alway claimed me friend zoning them was unfair but I had made it very clear from the start I was not interested. Sure some woman can be manipulative and use that to there advantage as can some guys IE during a woman for sex. But at least in my case the “friendzone thing is not something where I abuse that connects it’s more I genuinely am friendly (unless pissed then I’m not so pleasant and I withdrawal) so I tend to want to be friend only which I make clear but do them actual mentally fucking with me to try and change my mind it sometimes triggers my anxiety and need to make other happy which I try actively to fight again so I don try to play with people.

[Asker]

If you were upfront in the beginning (with no mixed messages) than you are not at fault.

However the tricky part for guys is yes women DO sometimes change their minds. A smart guy will respond with “hey I appreciate your honesty and respect your position but that’s not what I’m looking for” and then go along his way. He might say hello and engage in small talk if he runs into her public. But he does NOT hang out with her. Occasionally some women have second thoughts. But even then it’s tricky because she wasn’t that attracted to him to begin with He has to be on his game.

Anyway I’m sorry those guys got angry with you after you were honest with them. They should of respectfully just went on their way.

[Lilionna]

Yeah one guy pretended to be my friend for years getting me to trust him and such. All while trying to influence my thoughts and feelings without my notice then after a while and him starting to bad mouth a guy I was dating like full one eighty behavior I snapped asked why the hell he was friends with me if he was just going to ridicule my chooses then he said he never wanted to be my friend he was only pretending to be so he could get with me (I had told him the first time he ever asked me out that I had no feeling for me romantically and that I was sorry. He was the one to ask me to be friend saying he was perfectly fine with me not having feeling for him. Honestly I felt guilt but also deeply betrayed by that one.

[Asker]

I was guilty of doing that once many many years ago (I didn’t badmouth the girls boyfriend) and learned a very hard lesson. However this girl was still calling me AFTER she started seeing this other guy. She never mentioned him when we talked. I never trash talked him either (the other guy and myself were cordial in public) I mistook that as potential back door to maybe make her come to me. I was deeply in love with this girl at the time. Very young and dumb.

I just want to own up to that. There were major faults on both sides (she shouldn’t of contacted me when she was dating him) but still I shouldn’t of tried that backdoor crap. I only did this once in my entire life. It was until my mid and late 20s I got smarter about how to deal with that.

Anyway that guys was a conceited selfish manipulative beta POS to do that to you. What a dipshit.

[Lilionna]

@btbc92 I have not spoken to him sense he admitted that. I was done. So I told him that since he never wanted to be my friend that was fine he now gets what he wants we aren’t friends. I blocked him on everything and never spoken to him again. I hate when people’s aren’t up front with me. I mean how hard is it to say I’m not interested in friends ship sorry and be on your why.

[btbc92]

from*

[Lilionna]

@btbc92 all I ever ask for in a partner is mutual love, loyalty and respect

[Asker]

@btbc92 gtfo off my question. If you don’t like it then just leave. I think you are a sociopath. You offer no good advice. At this point I’m deaf tone to anything you have to say. Don’t waste your time just leave.

@lilionna I’m open minded to your side of the story (unlike btbc92 who believes that anybody who disagrees with her hates her) just as long as you are open to mine.

[Lilionna]

@btbc92 my belief is that there are some women who use men just like there are men who use women. If you ask me I believe there are good and bad in ever group of people. There are people who use and manipulate and betray. There are also people who are mis judged and misunderstood based on bias or preconceived notions. it’s why I like talking to people myself. So I can get to know and form an unbiased opinion on the person. Yes it opens me up to get hurt at it’s but how can one help others if they are not willing to learn who they are and instead only what believe they will be like. If I abandon one friend because they had temper issues and a short fuse ad asked a Dickson I would not have learned he was depressed and suicidal and his anger bred from frustration as not understanding others and social cues. I would not have Been there to pull him from the ledge if I hadn’t tried to se past the front he showed. Life is not simple and clear cute, is messy and jagged and sometimes you get cut. Sometimes the picture is fuzzy or misconstrued but with open mindedness and understanding and kindness we can make that picture clearer and the pieces less sharp

[Asker]

@lilionna I would be careful about listening to what btbc92 has to say. You might feel a certain bond with her because she seemingly understands your position better since she’s a woman. But so far every single thing she has posted has been extremely one sided. She went off on a unprovoked diatribe on my earlier loaded with false assumptions and personal attacks. It’s all because my question doesn’t jive with her emotionally. She unwilling to listen, reason or have her opinion changed.

Noticed how I confessed earlier I once did some bullshit (more complicated than your scenario) you know why I admitted that? Because I care more about WHAT is right vs BEING right. btbc92 has done absolutely nothing like that yet because she cares more about getting the satisfaction of being right and ventilating. Again what she says might be seductive because you relate to her. But that doesn’t mean it’s helpful.

[Asker]

@btbc92 can we come to a truce? Here are the two things that you said that made me immediately distrust you:

1. The friendzone doesn’t exist. That is extremely dismissive and most people believe it does exist. Men friendzone women too do this term is not “misogynistic” as feminists try to dismiss it as.

2. You going off on a personal attack and disgusting wrong assumptions about my life. I have started seeing someone recently and we already had sex twice. We have had very communication so far and we will just see where this goes. Just because I asked a question about the “friendzone” doesn’t automatically make me an “incel”. Read my side of the story for once and try to make an effort to see the male POV.

You don’t have to agree with me but I ask you to be respectful. You going off on a díatribe earlier will just make me shut down to your responses.

And please stop the word wall responses. I do make typos here and there but I use paragraphs to structure my debates cogently.

[Asker]

@btbc92 sadly you just proved my point. I tried to extend and olive branch and you spit on it smdh. It’s obvious you hate men and just see everything as a zero sum game.

Well enjoy being sociopath. Yeah you will get your moments but people can and will figure you out.

[Hyped_up_on_coffee]

You sound bitter , I don’t feel as if anyone is entitled to me. If I ask someone for a favor I would probably return it at some point or be emotionally there for a person , as a friend , nothing more. If they are upset about that then I don’t want their friendship. It’s insincere.

[Asker]

Read my entire question again. I did my best to consider both sides of this issue.

[Hyped_up_on_coffee]

I did , your tone still sounds resentful. I wouldn’t make crazy demands of a friend for the sakes of wanting something. Perhaps you need to study the traits of a sociopath and how to avoid them , because that is something only a sociopath would do.

[Asker]

I’ve met true sociopaths before and I’m very familiar by how operate. But there is a deeper and more general issue between genders.

Feminists have been demanding for decades that men need to listen to and understand women better. Alright fair enough. Over the years I’ve made adjustments in how I communicate and behave around women. I know their reality is often different then mine. I talk to them differently than men. This is for both romantic and non romantic scenarios.

But I don’t see much effort at all being up into vice versa unless there is something specifically in it for the woman.

The real reason men get angry about the “friendzone” is not exclusively about being romantically rejected and losing out on sexual opportunity. While that sucks and is disappointing it’s just a fact of life that many people are not going to reciprocate attraction. Again attraction isn’t a choice.

No the deeper issue is that woman doesn’t respect the friendzoned guy’s masculinity. They don’t see them as a “real man” but feel comfortable being “just friends” because he often displays behaviors she finds feminine (him being nice, thoughtful, etc.).

Again if the woman is straight up about where she stands with him early than she did the right thing. As uncomfortable is that is for someone to hear at least she respects him enough to be honest.

[Hyped_up_on_coffee]

It has nothing to do with the rejected person’s masculinity. Attraction is primarily physical, women like girly men too like Timothe Chalamet and they soft boi. You just aren’t their type. To understand women’s attraction And type see a reverse harem anime or look up types of men women are attracted too. Because it varies , one woman may like buff adrenaline junkie men , another one likes artsy musician types , some like nerdy intellectual types , and others like douchey comedians

[Asker]

I made it clear from the very beginning that rejecting romance tactfully is what a person SHOULD do if they are not interested.

But the bigger question is why are you so confident he is okay with being friends and to continue to hang out with you? That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be rude (or worse) after being turned down. But seriously why should he stay in your orbit? Do you think he wants to hear you complain or ask for advice about other guys? Do you think he wants to waste his attention, time, energy, attention, heart on someone who doesn’t feel the same?

If you were straight up honest with him (in the beginning) than it’s on him to decide whether to stay or leave. But many women don’t do this. They instead play dumb because they like the attention and everything else.

I used to think this is something women would grow out of. I definitely don’t lead girls on with empty promises just for sex. I’m honest early where I stand and that has costed me a few sexual opportunities in my life (I’ve seen other guys lie through their teeth and I was never like that) but I walked away knowing I did the right thing.

So if you lose a male “friend” from being honest in the beginning just realize that even if he didn’t thank you he is thankful. You had the respect to tell him where he stands before he invest too much energy, time, money, Hope etc into you. You saw that he is a real man with his own hopes and dreams and respected that. Trying to keep him around by not communicating the truth is nothing but conceited.

[Hyped_up_on_coffee]

I always tell anyone when I’m not interested, and if they don’t want my friendship I’m more than cool with it. I don’t make men spend money on me , and I also happily treat them too. I gave one of my favorite clay masks to a friend who suffers from acne so he can be confident , I always buy my male friends gifts on their birthdays too ! If you can’t have regular friendships with women either you have a problem making interpersonal relationships or are just a poor judge of character. Women don’t get bitter like this , they cry with their girlfriends after rejection and move on to the next person. Be an adult Don’t fixate on a single woman and be open to options.

[Asker]

You are making very inaccurate assumptions about my current position in life which is a cheap shot. Focus on the topic on hand please.

[Hyped_up_on_coffee]

I’m telling you to learn from your experiences so that they don’t happen again

[Asker]

And it hasn’t. But just seeing other young guys go through this along with all the other shit their up against (metoo) got me amped up a bit.

[not_a_twinkie]

Are you honestly saying that you think men and women can't be friends? Where the hell does that idea even come from

[Asker]

They can be friends as long as there is no attraction to the point where one person feels jealous if the other person is romantic with someone else. That’s the acid test.

[not_a_twinkie]

Then that's just on the person with the attraction

[Asker]

Yes the person who doesn’t feel the same way can respectfully tell the person where they stand as well. That’s the right thing to do.

[not_a_twinkie]

Being friends should be the default, you shouldn't have to specify unless someone says anything to the contrary

[Asker]

Yes but let’s be honest. Your intuition can pick up on when a person is interested. I know when women are interested from their body language, behavior and tone of voice and I’m a guy. Women generally have much stronger intuition then men do. You know 99% of the time of the time the guy likes you without him having to say anything.

So why do you play dumb? Well it’s easier to play dumb because you are trying to avoid an uncomfortable conversation. That’s understandable but don’t act surprised if he tried to make a move.

The best thing is to say this: “hey joe. I think you are a cool guy and respect you so that’s why I want to be honest. I really don’t see you as more then a friend. I can understand if you want to move on but I just felt the right thing to do was to be honest because again: I respect you”.

THAT will remove 95%+ of your future problems with him. If he gets all pissed off then take that as confirmation you did the right thing.

[not_a_twinkie]

That's a lot of assumptions there. First of all yes intuition can tell someone certain things about their environment, but intuition is based in repeated experience and is actually just advanved processing in the brain, which a lot of the time is not focused on romantic exchange given that it's a self preservation instinct.

From there you get a few factors, inexperience, distrust of "intuition", density, etc. The point is that while something may seem easy or basic to you, your experience is not universal. Very few people pay attention to body language, and even this along with behavior and tones can be misinterpreted or misleading based on personality and environment, they're not certain.

You've assumed both that should all the above not be present that everyone is assertive and has enough trust in a stranger so state such a thing. As well as the fact that some guys just don't listen.

As I've said, friendship should be the default and should be expected as such.

[devilish-cutie]

Because we truly see you as a friend and want you as a friend

[Asker]

And what value do you seriously provide in that capacity?

[devilish-cutie]

What do you mean value? Well friendship value. To me some guys are so great i would want to hang out with them but i wouldn't want to kiss them or have sex with them cause im not attracted to them in romantic or sexual way.

[devilish-cutie]

by the way i never really friendzone guys if they like me in romantic way. I think its best they are not my friend cause they want more. But if we both agree its not really working out with us and realize this isn't something we both look for it would be great to be friends if we really get along as people.

[Asker]

All this is fine if you SPEAK UP (early) and let him know where you stand. If he agrees with its on him.

But from my observations most women don’t speak up.

[devilish-cutie]

A lot of guys also ghost you. I do speak up but yes most women dont cause they fear to heart a guy if they bluntly say they dont like him. A lot of guys also get defensive and agressive.

[Asker]

That’s why women need to do a better job at being tactfully honest. I notice they tend to not say anything at all OR are brutally honest to the point of being rude.

I’ve had to friendzone two women in the last two years. It wasn’t fun because I liked their personalities and valued their company. But with both women I started with saying “hey I got to be honest out of RESPECT”. I made sure to use the word respect and I was being genuine. I ended it with “I would like to be friends but I’ll understand if you like to go on your way. I respect your time”.

It wasn’t fun having this conversation but they thanked me for being straight up. There have been a few rare instances in the past where I’ve had woman ever tactfully honest with me. I had to take a deep breath and put myself in their position. I thanked them for the honesty.

Now if a guy “ghosts” you after you being honest is that his fault? Just like you have a right to reject romance he equally has a right to reject a “friendship”. That doesn’t mean he should be nasty or rude. But if you still want him in your orbit that shows extreme selfishness on your end. You need to understand that his time, effort, money etc. is finite. He’s better off spending it on someone who likes him.

[devilish-cutie]

i completely understand you but that really is more about the person than gender. I am tactfully rejecting guys yet some still can throw tantrums and hate on you. I do thta cause i think its the right way to go about it as you do too. But i dont see that people generally do that. We ar more at rare end cause most people are selfish ad want to avoid any discomfort hemselves.
When i was talking about ghosting i meant guys you date and like and they ghost you instead of saying they are not into you or whatver, have that talk you say women should have with guys when they dont like them. My point is i dont see men going much better at the matter than girls.

[Asker]

Alright thanks for hearing me out. But I’ve just society really trashing men more for misbehavior than women. Feminists come up with this ridiculous self serving crap like “the friendzone doesn’t exist” or “if you are in the friendzone you yourself there”.

Ah anybody who has been friendzoned before knows damn well this is usually much more complicated than those slogans. Also men are more hesitant to make a move nowadays thanks to all the #metoo crap. So it shouldn’t be a surprise that a guys acts just initially “friendly” when he really wants more.

On a side note I definitely haven’t had a friendzone issue lately. In fact (not bragging) I just got laid last night. But I just read some other younger guys story about a friendzone incident on here. I felt bad for him and reminded me of the crap I went through years ago. But nowadays I have much better radar for this crap.

[Asker]

by the way i once got ghosted from a girl who I dated for 9 months after a simple minor argument. I know exactly how that feels.

[devilish-cutie]

Well there are issues from both sides. Feminist women are just talking about their side besides some people talk about bunch of crap and call it feminism. There are good and bad girls and guys. I think issue w friendzone is also often cause people lie to themselves and hope someone will like them when they well know they dont. Guys also often mistake girl just being nice for liking them or flirting.
I also hear how men complain how they have to make a move etc. I was raised conservative thinking that but honestly already in highschool i realize most men are not brave and won't make a move until we women draw a picture to them. Some men do approach etc. no dubt but most dont really, not when they really like a girl. So you may not see it but us women do loads of work to get you to approach. Personally I dont actually do that, im to impatient for that crap, i approach myself, i have no time to waste. Many guys then finding intimidating or think you are easy. So you see, none of us have it easy.

[devilish-cutie]

I think ghosting is plain rude. I can understand ignoring messages from tons of guys on dating app or someone being psycho but wen you actually talk to someone, get to know them, go on dates and they ghost you? Thats plane rude to me. I get some people wanna keep you as an option so they dont end it cause of that, which even tho its meh i do get, but than at least say I don't know about now, i have this that, we will see, i will come back to you when i can but dont count on me etc. Anyways it can be done as respectful human being would do. I dont treat others as i dont want to be treated.

[Gwenhwyfar]

Because a lot of women (including me) really do just wanna be friends

[Asker]

And why is it you don’t see very many straight guys (if any) saying they really want platonic gal pals? I’ll give you a hint: it’s NOT just about sex.

[Gwenhwyfar]

I don’t get it

[Asker]

Because women get much more out of platonic “friendships” with men then vice versa. Much much more.

[Gwenhwyfar]

Not true

[Asker]

Convince why a bachelor should stay “friends” with a woman he feels attracted too when she doesn’t feel the same?

[Gwenhwyfar]

Friendship companionship mutual interests

[Asker]

This only works if both people are mutually not attracted to each other. The acid test is if you feel sincere jealousy when they are with someone else (not beer goggles).

So again. Why would a man stay “friends” with a woman he’s attracted to when she doesn’t feel the same? Especially when she knows it.

Do you seriously think he wants to hear her complain and/or ask for advice about other guys? Why do you think he should tolerate that self torture? This goes vice versa as well.

[Gwenhwyfar]

If I know my guy friend likes me I won’t ask his advice about other guys. We’ll talk about other stuff.

[Asker]

Well that’s smart. There was a girl I had a huge crush on college (far as I got was a kiss once) who later started dating another guy. She still kept calling me and I didn’t know what the friendzone was back then (people didn’t even use that term often in the early 2000s). But she was smart enough to never talk about him or even say his name. Their married now with kids.

Anyway her presence was torture for me back then. She was keeping me around to get more attention and just to toy with her boyfriend. Sure I should of just moved on but I first met her when she was single and she her presence gave me a twisted hope she might leave him for me (which I now know is almost impossible).

Anyway this “guy friend” of yours is a naive fool to hanging out with you. How old is he? Just realize you are getting his hopes up by just being his presence. Yeah it’s on him but still realize it’s hurting him.

[Asker]

I think you need to ask yourself deep down the real reason why you like having him “as a friend”. The more important question is to ask if this is respectful. I’m not letting him off the hook since he knows your taken but still. Try very hard to put yourself in his position.

[Anonymous]

Some of us just really wanna be friends, because there are some guys that I like hanging out with but I just don't see them in a romantic way.

[Asker]

That’s fine. But if you know he’s interested you need to speak up (early) at some point. Say you are being honest out of respect.

[Opinion Owner]

Yea I usually do right away I tell him I only like him as a friend and nothing more.

[Asker]

Make sure you say “I’m being honest out of respect”. Always use the word respect. That’s what most guys really crave from women: respect. We actually deep down crave that more than sex. We just want to be respected as a real man not some beta orbiter.

[nevernevernever]

Maybe they think that the guy values them for more than just a potential mate.

[Siren777]

The friendzone = safezone