Is there a double standard to men & women checking out the opposite sex?

[Flatmanlewis]

Is it a false perception that men and women checking out others is judged differently?

I work in a very diverse workplace - men, women, gay, straight, conservative, liberal, faithful, promiscuous, and every race and I can think of. Ages range from 18 to early 60s with the bulk of staff between 25-45. I have good rapport with plenty of the women I work with and plenty of honesty. Morale and camaraderie is high.

I see women check out the new guys and comment on their physique, or perceived attractiveness. This is everything from their muscles to facial hair to how they dress. I’ve heard the women doing this and been in the talking circles when it happens. The women all openly giggle and laugh and share (in far more graphic detail than I’d have imagined!) what they think of the man they are discussing. Nobody cares and there is absolutely no attempt to hide the behavior. In fact, I’ve seen management level women engage in the conduct.

I’ve also been in the male circle when the the guys check out or rate girls on their looks, style, and figure. Men discuss what they like best about the different women and who they would pick as their “one pick”. I’ve also heard how managers (male & female) cringe and try to stop the conduct. It’s widely regarded as inappropriate. I’ve heard female supervisors comment that “It’s never okay to discuss women’s bodies”, even if they do the exact same thing about men.

Some woman sees her favorite hunky celebrity on the break room TV and she openly ogles him and it’s all laughs from the girls. Some female babe is on TV and any guy who comments is regarded as a creep and a perv.

A female department head has pics of her favorite actor all over her desk and it’s not even addressed. One guy was talked to for having a bikini girl calendar at his work space.

Is there a double-standard? Is it right? Is it wrong? If so, why? Am I not seeing the situation from the right perspective?

[Anonymous]

The answer is not what you probably think, and there is a small explanation for it, fuck yes, there is a fucking double standard. And that's a good thing. We've even heard of the scientific studies about women being more talkative than men. And with being more fucking talkative in general, there comes the additional range of topics they naturally can talk about, while men who talk less overall can not cover every shit that women are able to, simply because men talk less and don't have time for it. Men are fucking fearless and men can go ahead and fuck their crushes instead of only giggling about them. Are you gonna whine to your friends about your crush and how she got a fucking boner seeing you? That's just a ball-less thing to do. If you want one go get her, don't just talk.

[ManOnFire]

Yep, there is an enormous double standard to this, and I’ve seen that stuff on my job too. It is seen as completely okay for women to "like what they like" and objectify a guy, but when men do it we are immediately on sexual harassment/workplace inappropriateness patrol.

Everybody thinks it’s cute when a girl is crushing on a guy at work, and no one says she's being creepy if she keeps trying to talk to him or hang around him, but when it's vice versa the guy is seen as obsessive and needs to fix his behavior.

Very good question you asked.

[EmyyWolf]

Because women are desired and most of them are desirable. So when women do this to a man. The man doesn’t mind. Because the most desirable sex want “HIM”. It’s rare for a man to get all the ladies. So he sees it as a compliment.

Women on the other hand. We get harassed and followed and stalked. And majority of men are undesirables. Most of them don’t look like SuperMan. Most of them are either undesirables or old. This comes off as creepy and unwanted attention. We get more than enough attention. So when another creep is being a creep. It’s inappropriate.

[Flatmanlewis]

Im not sure I’d agree with your math. In my particular workplace there are remarkably few fit, attractive, women. Yet, conversely, the majority of the men are regularly into fitness, martial arts, and make use of the free gym on site.

[EmyyWolf]

Then I don't know where tf you live lol or where tf that is?

[WhitneySnow]

Because when men do it it has thousands of years of oppression behind it and also men usually do it in a much more aggressive manner than women do.

Is it really that important for you to have the right to rate women’s bodies? If a woman does it to you and you don’t like it, ask her to stop. Chances are she will if directly confronted. If you do like it, then don’t worry about it.

[WhitneySnow]

I’m sorry. I shouldn’t have assumed that you were complaining.

[WhitneySnow]

And there’s a difference between having head shots of your favorite actor and a pic of a half naked girl in a bikini

[inhua]

it's only perceived as more aggressive because men are stronger than women. women are not as strong as men thus their same actions are not perceived as aggressive

[RingOfFire]

"Because when men do it it has thousands of years of oppression behind it"

Also known as evolution and natural design.

[BoopBoopBeep]

@RingOfFire Not to mention... I haven't oppressed anyone for thousands of years. I don't give a shite what people generations before me did to people generations before me. I can't be criminally charged for that for a reason.

[RingOfFire]

@BoopBoopBeep

You are absolutely right. This belief that we are somehow "collectively" responsible for the sins of other people whether in the past or in the present is an evil afront to liberty. You have no responsibility for the behavior of anyone other than yourself. We are each born individuals owing nothing to anyone.

[BoopBoopBeep]

@RingOfFire Preach it brother. The madness must stop!

[nastyb]

because women tend to be objectified way more than men. Everyone appreciates beauty including women. But there is a big difference between talking about being attracted to someone versus objectifying them. Historically women don't objectify men the same way men objectify women. Men are NOT FETISHED the same way as women are in society. You don't see naked men with their dicks bulging in their underwear on billboards, you only see naked women in bikinis on billboards. You dont see naked men being touted around on commercials, you only see a woman's boobs being the biggest "hit factor" on commercials. You dont see naked guys showing off their physique on Instagram, its all just girls showing off their ass. A lot of girls are raised and conditioned by society to believe that a woman's only self-worth is her looks. In their mind, objectification is their only self-worth. Men are raised to believe that they SHOULD objectify women. Men are raised to believe that a woman's worth SHOULD be mainly due to her looks. Women aren't raised the same way to judge men purely by their looks. This is the DIFFERENCE.

[inhua]

women do objectify men though. just because there are less numbers of men worthy of being objectified doesn't mean women don't objectify men to the same extent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eEYlrWMXLk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6suq2Y6gQ4Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsK9ps3zvFI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN8lmtDHhTc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZD6dK4HWmI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81kmP40Cct0

men like Channing Tatum, Chris Hemsworth, Jason Momoa, Henry Cavill, Robert Pattinson are extremely rare amongst the male population, more so than women like Kim Kardashian, Margot Robbie, Megan Fox, Jessica Alba, Jennifer Lawrence, Beyonce amongst the female population

these rare attractive men get objectified more on a consistent basis than attractive women and rather shamelessly too. Ellen DeGeneres is well known for getting her male guests to strip shirtless in front her female audience. if Jimmy Fallon did the same thing to his female guests, there would be outrage for weeks

[nastyb]

@inhua

a few exceptions don't make the rule.

[inhua]

those aren't exceptions. those are very common. women like to pretend they're not shallow to hold some superior moral high ground to men when it's just virtue signaling

attraction is biological. not political. actions will always speak louder than words

it doesn't matter how much she says she doesn't care about looks and isn't attracted to bad boys when the moment a hot bad boy walks in, she can't resist him. that's the whole point of attraction

[nastyb]

@inhua

they're not very common. how common do you see naked men with big dicks bulging out on billboards? how often do you see men taking off their shirts on instagram? do you see a male version of ONLYFANS? NO!

[attraction is biological. ]

true. that's why women like their men young, tall, muscular, strong and fast instead of old, fat, frail or weak.

[inhua]

how many men do you often see that are on par with the attractive men I listed? not many because they are a rarity amongst the total male population thus you won't see many being objectified due to the low numbers. men have more integrity than to sell themselves on OF

[ true. that's why women like their men young, tall, muscular, strong and fast instead of old, fat, frail or weak. ]

never said otherwise. women are pissed men have similar preferences whilst pretending they aren't shallow themselves

[nastyb]

@inhua

there's already tons of proof that men aren't objectified like women. there's no such thing as a double standard because women are objectified SO MUCH MORE compared to men. Men are raised to objectify women. Men are raised to believe that a woman's only worth is her looks.

[never said otherwise. women are pissed men have similar preferences whilst pretending they aren't shallow themselves]

it has nothing to do with being shallow. it only has to do with evolution. Younger men tend to produce healthier babies and are stronger which enables them to defend her and the kids. that's why vast majority of young women end up marrying young men.

[inhua]

[ Men are raised to objectify women. Men are raised to believe that a woman's only worth is her looks. ]

not true. men are raised to be male feminists who "respect" women but the moment they ask for equality, suddenly they get demonized. it's not men's fault, women choose to follow after Amber Heard, Cardi B and Kim Kardashian when they could be following Candace Owens instead but nah women would rather demonize Candace and defend the Kardashians

vast majority of young women don't get married until they are older much less have babies and that's with young men who have gotten older too, those older women aren't marrying younger men much less reproducing with them

if women cared so much about age and the health of their babies, they would be having babies in their early 20s, not their 30s.

[nastyb]

@inhua

[not true. men are raised to be male feminists who "respect" women but the moment they ask for equality, suddenly they get demonized. it's not men's fault, women choose to]

how common do you see naked men with big dicks bulging out on billboards? how often do you see men taking off their shirts on instagram? do you see a male version of ONLYFANS? NO!
You dont see naked men being touted around on commercials,

[nastyb]

@inhua

[if women cared so much about age and the health of their babies, they would be having babies in their early 20s, not their 30s.]

because early 20s is for dating and finding the right life partner. women who marry too early in life tend to get divorced later in life.

[inhua]

frequency is not the same as extent.

like I said before, attractive men are a rarity. they're not putting average men who look like Seth Rogan or Jonah Hill on fucking billboards. you fail to understand that only a small minority of men are worthy of being objectified and men who are worthy of being objectified receive far more attention than men who don't

[inhua]

women don't care about the fertility of the man much less the baby, only his genetics otherwise they'd be having babies in their 20s, even if they choose to marry in their 30s they aren't marrying men in their 20s for the healthiest possible baby

most women marry in their 30s and 50% of marriages still end in divorce, 80% are filed by women but sure, they're looking for the "right" partner instead of just "settling"

[nastyb]

@inhua

[frequency is not the same as extent.]

frequency is definitely the biggest factor. Its not only frequency... the platforms such as billboards, commercials, instagram or onlyfans are exclusively dedicated to objectifying women. Even porn objectifies women. the camera is always zoomed in on the woman's body. you never see a man's body being glorified in porn.

[nastyb]

@inhua

[women don't care about the fertility of the man much less the baby, only his genetics otherwise they'd be having babies in their 20s, even if they choose to marry in their 30s they aren't marrying men in their 20s for the healthiest possible baby]

All around the world, in almost every culture men and women get married in their 20s. there is an evolutionary reason for it... people in their 20s have the healthiest babies.

its only in the western world such as US and UK where people delay marriage in 20s because marriage is more romanticized here than in other countries such as india or china or japan. Marriage is done as a custom and for practical reasons such as creating a family. In western world, marriage is purely a "romantic experience" than for custom or practical reasons
Data has proven that the earlier that people marry, the more likely they will get divorced.
In our world today, you will barely ever find anyone in their early 20s who want to marry.

[nastyb]

@inhua

"finding the right partner" is not as glorified in other countries as it is in the US.

[inhua]

exclusively? absolutely not. because men tend to be more vocal about this doesn't mean women don't secretly objectify men. women would rather watch trash movies like Twilight as long as there are hot guys in it as opposed to men who think of trash movies like Birds of Prey as trash despite there being hot girls in that movie

[inhua]

men aren't getting married in their 20s around the world. most fathers wouldn't approve of such especially if the young man is broke and can't financially support a family. young men in other countries don't have money and start out even worse than men in the west

[ people in their 20s have the healthiest babies ]

yet women in the west are the ones delaying having babies in their 20s, waiting till their 30s and I'm to believe women overwhelmingly want young men due to having the healthiest baby without looking at themselves first in the mirror?

[nastyb]

@inhua

[ because men tend to be more vocal about this doesn't mean women don't secretly objectify men.]

men are more vocal because they want to objectify women more frequently. women are less vocal because they want to objectify men less frequently. Frequency and "platform of objectification" are SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER for women than men.

take a look at prostitution... how often do you see male prostitutes? slim to none!! over 95% of prostitutes are female. hot guys are not as objectified as hot girls.

a few exceptions do not make the rule.

[nastyb]

@inhua

as you can see... there are more men who marry in their 20s than 30s in most countries around the world.

www.statista.com/chart/19119/global-marriage-ages/

www.weforum.org/.../

[inhua]

[ because they want to objectify men less frequently ]

silence is not the same as being an inactive participant. even the most quiet girls have a dark side to them they don't want anybody to know about

[ take a look at prostitution... how often do you see male prostitutes? ]

women don't need to pay men for sex. that's why male prostitutes are non-existent. she can just approach the hottest guy and offer to open up her legs for him

[inhua]

most of those countries have a low mortality rate where men and women rarely live past the age of 30 much less past the age of 40 and the males are usually older than the females anyway and that's only assuming all men in those countries end up getting married because the existence of polygamy ensures that some men are destined to be single

[nastyb]

@inhua

[most of those countries have a low mortality rate where men and women rarely live past the age of 30 much less past the age of 40 and the males are usually older than the]

in vast majority of the world, people marry in their 20s except the westernized countries such as UK or US. Its not due to poverty. Its simply due to the fact that people there are less picky about who they marry.

[nastyb]

@inhua

[silence is not the same as being an inactive participant. even the most quiet girls have a dark side to them they don't want anybody to know about]

i think people tend to talk about what they want the most. the more you want it, the more you talk about it. if women rarely talk about it, there's a good chance they don't want it nearly as much as you.

[women don't need to pay men for sex. that's why male prostitutes are non-existent. she can just approach the hottest guy and offer to open up her legs for him]

women don't need to pay men for sex because men tend to be more perverted and sexual- same reason why men tend to objectify women more.

[inhua]

[ I think people tend to talk about what they want the most ]

women don't need to talk about it as much when we can observe their actions. a picture may tell a thousand words but video footage tells a million words

[ women don't need to pay men for sex because men tend to be more perverted and sexual- same reason why men tend to objectify women more. ]

no, it's because men have lower standards for women and it's considered unmanly for a man to get paid by a woman

[nastyb]

@inhua

[women don't need to talk about it as much when we can observe their actions. a picture may tell a thousand words but video footage tells a million words]

men actually sexually harrass women way more than wome sexully harrass men. over 98% of registered sex offenders are men.

An estimated 80-90% of offenders are male, while 10-20% of offenders are female.

www.raace.org/.../

[inhua]

"harassment" is subjective. some men are fine with a woman touching his dick in public and would never call the police on her

the bystanders in this video didn't consider this harassment at all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uccExOPMrI

[EricSummer]

Yes, there is a double standard.

However, most of the time checking out men is a "victimless crime" as most men do not mind being checked out or they even enjoy it. If they do mind they are completely within their rights to complain.

Women are victims of sexual assault ten times more often than men, so some women may feel uneasy about the attention even if it is benign.

In matters related to sexuality we must accept the reality of some differences between genders.

[Flatmanlewis]

Excellent and well articulated reply.

[stepyo99]

Checking out a woman is LITERALLY RAPE
If women are that helpless that checking them out makes them feel uneasy, then why should they be treated equally at all? What are they even doing in that work place if benign actions are all it takes to make her feel uncomfortable? It's silly.

[EricSummer]

@stepyo99 - Let's keep things in proportion. Rape is a terrible crime, but checking out people at the workplace is just bad behavior. I realize I suggested a link to sexual assault, but I just meant to explain the feeling of vulnerability that some women report even if not remotely in danger in the actual situation we are discussing.

A different point is simply that many women get so much male attention that they do not appreciate it. They do not want to have to react to this at work all the time.

Such issues should absolutely not keep us from working together between people of different genders. This is all quite manageable.

By the way here in French-speaking Switzerland we are fine with people having sexual relations within the work group. There will be opportunities to get to know each other and to flirt, but at the workplace we have to be more careful than elsewhere.

[stepyo99]

"but checking out people at the workplace is just bad behavior"
But only for men, apparently. So it's a double standard when we're supposedly equal, but obviously aren't because again, if women are so weak that a benign action that they themselves participate in makes them uncomfortable then what are they even doing in that workplace to begin with? That's not equality, it's just another case of women wanting special treatment.

[EricSummer]

@stepyo99 - The trick is that women and men are different in the area of sexuality and reproduction. Apart from that they are different only in a few other areas such as some medical concerns and also in sports.
They are equal in the workplace, politics, education and in fact in basically all other fields not covered by the exceptions I had mentioned first.

The topic of checking out new colleagues is part of "sexuality" and not "work", so it is a valid case of inequality. It's really as easy as that.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

10 times more often than men reported but you may have no idea how much women can actually get away with it making how they perpetrate their sexual acts towards men go unaddressed. Social experiments show it

[RingOfFire]

I agree. Excellent reply. And to @Flatmanlewis, excellent question.

Have to agree with you @ericsummer, men are not physically intimidated by women or their talk about a man's looks. Women, on the other hand are almost exclusively more likely to be victims of sexual assault so they might see talk about their looks by strangers as being intimidating and threatening.

[RingOfFire]

So is it a double standard. Yes. But arguably justified.

[stepyo99]

"The topic of checking out new colleagues is part of "sexuality" and not "work", so it is a valid case of inequality. It's really as easy as that."
Yeah, that's not gonna cut it at all. Especially when women are doing the same thing to men at work without consequences. Both examples are occurring at work, the only difference is that women get away with it and men are punished for it. You're only advocating for special treatment for women like some kind of simp.

If women want to be treated equally, then they should be treated equally. If women want to receive special treatment and not be subjected to the horrors of being "checked out" then I guess they shouldn't be involved in the workplace. It's really as easy at that.

[RingOfFire]

If I didn't care if women wants to stare at me or make comments about my looks or sexuality why would I care whether they are prohibited from doing so or not? The definition of "equal" doesn't have to mean the same. Men could have certain things that are more important to them and women could have certain things that are more important to them. They could agree to follow the rules for their own gender even if different and that could be considered equality too.

[stepyo99]

@RingOfFire That's not considered equality by anyone. You're making things up. Men have to follow certain rules, but women don't ever have to follow them. And if there is a gender specific rule that exists for women, it's framed as a "barrier" to be broken down and overcome. You're simping for special treatment for women.

[EricSummer]

@stepyo99 - Yes, I think that is fair to admit. I'm fine with treating women differently from men and differently from how they treat us in matters linked to sexuality (flirting, dating, procreation, pregnancy, periods - the wider topic area).

[ManOnFire]

@ericsummer This is not a good perspective, sorry. We're still using sexual crime as a way to justify women's feelings or concerns, even though women are still often asserting themselves sexually even on the job, and can use that to try to get ahead. I don't think seeing sexual violence as a reason for why it's okay for women to oggle at men and not vice versa is a sound argument.

Feminism taught women to think that almost anything a guy says or does is a sexual threat, even the "benign" things. Or none that have absolutely nothing to do with sex or flirting whatsoever. It's not a double standard because of sexual assault. It's a double standard because we are taught that it's okay for women to do what men do but can't be punished for it. Equality only works for benefitting women, but never to discipline them in the same way for using that equality.

[RingOfFire]

@stepyo99
"That's not considered equality by anyone."

Oh really. Please cite your source.

[EricSummer]

@ManOnFire - It is possible to hold a view by which a maximum of equality is best. Personally, I would not be comfortable with that. It is not a compliment to a man to be seen as harmless with a right to ogle women as much as he wants. Even when we are really flirting there is a certain tension and it is best when the woman is not completely at ease. It is an echo from less civilized times when sexuality went along with more dangers. Even after a long time of domestication I would not like to be perceived just like a woman.

[ManOnFire]

@ericsummer And yet the irony is that women of today largely want to be physically glorified and given sexual attention. They want to feel good or powerful by having themselves be sexually worshipped... until there is a man they don't like. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Even if it's not for sexual attention, many women still want to be praised or looked at for just being attractive... until there is a man they don't like. Again the circle continues.

I will agree that if a man is oggling at a woman in such a way that is without discretion, that he is being creepy. My point is that the same rules need to be applied to women. It should not be right or fair that a woman can harass a man, make statements to him that she knows she's going to get away with, stare at him on the job, or always try to be around him... and not get disciplined for that behavior.

This is why women get away with sexual inappropriateness. I have known so many women in the workplace who've slept with supervisors and managers, and never got fired for it, but male supervisors and managers are sent out the door in a minute for sleeping with someone.

[EricSummer]

@ManOfFire - of course promotion for sexual relations is not fair and that's a real issue.
Fortunately, here in Switzerland consensual sex in the work group is never a reason for termination. We might only reshuffle groups so that nobody sleeps with their direct boss. Otherwise no issue there.

[blueonblack22]

Yes there is a huge double standard on this.

The thing is women get more wiggle room and societal leeway because they are supposedly harmless. A man on the other hand is supposedly more threatening and likely to cause harm.

So let’s hypothetically say women are only allowed to hit on and approach men. Then men would do the accepting and rejecting. Okay fair enough. But in reality most women WANT to be approached and hit on by men they like. Most women don’t want to stick their neck out and risk rejection. They expect men to take the risks.

So you can’t have both. You can’t expect men to approach you while simultaneously hoping the ones you don’t like won’t approach you. That is where this “modern” dating approach is so contradictory.

[Levin]

Maybe it's similar in kind to how male masturbation is considered grotty and desperate, and women's sultry and sensual.

Male sexuality in general is shamed. Hence why unconsciously a lot of men reject their masculinity and basic sense of who they are.

[Pinay_ako]

When I check out a man, I do it almost 😅 not too obvious for him to even notice that I was checking him out. There’s this guy I see on the bus everyday. And yes I notice he has banging body underneath those clothes. He’s shy. But yes I have checked him out everyday and he doesn’t even know 😂.

[Adaeva]

I don't know if, based on the fact, that men and women are very different, if that is a double standard. However, you can make that decision after viewing this video that perfectly demonstrates how our society reacts:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Y0arSz31DqI

[inhua]

yes there is a double standard. women are allowed to check out men but men can not check out women unless she "wants" him to

in regards to men checking out women, there are even more double standards where hot guys are allowed to check out women but ugly guys can't even exist alongside women without them getting offended at their existence

[Kaamraj]

There's always a double standard, biology itself is biased and sexist. Women checking out men is generally dismissed because as many rightly pointed out, women cannot physically harm men generally speaking. But many of these things are going too far with the left liberal PC culture. Men need their exclusive safe places.

[Blueeyes81]

There is. People only care about double standards when they are negatively impacted. Women don't care about double standards that benefit them and men don't care about double standards that benefit them. So it seems rather redundant to get pissed at one and justify another.

[Z1pTD]

Yeah there totally is a double standard.

I remember one time when two girls I worked worth just decided to survey my body like I wasn't there lol

And then one of them asked the other how much I'd have to pay her to get a BJ and she said she'd do it for free

At that point I was like yeahhhh I'm good thanks I gotta work

[Anonymous]

Of course, liberal indoctrination starts within the education system and leads to such a populous divide

Another democrat term once they put Joey to sleep and all men of all creeds and colours will be rounded up and processed like those interred at Birkenau were

[Anonymous]

Yes. But that goes the same for ANY minority group. Men have the "instutional" power. That's why when men do iexploiting. Possibly exerting power while when women do it it's seen as harmless. Even if she's very calculating an exploitive.

[Anonymous]

Of course there's a double standard, there always has been, women can ogle and make comments about men to their hearts content, men do the same and get labeled as a 'perv' or if its in the workplace they are dragged to HR for a dressing down. Is it any wonder that men do not want to have to interact with women, especially in the workplace and are using 'social distancing' as a convenient buffer.

[AviatorTom]

I believe there is. Very few guys would get upset if they noticed a woman checking them out, while many women would be upset if they saw a man checking them out.

[Anonymous]

The female department head doesn't have her celebrity male crush half naked all over her desk. The guy with the bikini girl calendar is degrading to women. Why not just bring porn next? There's a difference there.

[Miristheiss]

Yes, but men and women are different. There will always be differences and double standards when it comes to the sexes.

[SolitarySolace]

Yes. Women can do and say whatever they want and men have to be cautious

[Unit1]

Yes. These women you described are hypocrites.

[LiamJHayden]

Probably, but only because more men genuinely like the overt attention.

[Shy_Steve]

Women benefit from most of these Double Standards, Thats just one of them.