Do you believe that men have never been objectified before womens rights?

[Sharkstealth]

[SotiCoto]

Even the most staunch of feminists would agree that men have been objectified throughout history... but that the ones doing it were other men in higher positions of power.
As to whether women also engaged in objectification of men... probably, but there is less recorded about it.

Generally speaking though, I think men don't tend to care as much about that sort of thing as women do. Women do like to whine and kick up a fuss about things men have generally just been shrugging off all this time. That is what you get for centuries of being protected rather than centuries of being told to man up and endure. It will take a LONG time for that sort of thing to even itself out.

[TheSpaceGnome]

Both sexes have always been objectified, which is why breeding happens.

[Anonymous]

In my great grandmother's time at her school the boys would swim completely nude while the girls wore swimsuits. She said it really separated the men from the boys, she kept a diary at the time and talked a lot about her sexual feelings towards certain boys, mentioned their penis sizes and their bodies along with some sex acts she performed on them, basic heavy petting stuff as they called it, masturbating at home thinking about the boys swimming, masturbating with her friend talking about the boys swimming nude.

[Tren58]

Everyone objectifies everyone. We can pretend to be outraged about it, but it’s literally programmed in our DNA. Not just human nature, it’s animal nature. We can learn decency and quell our instincts, because we are advanced. But the initial reaction will not go away for the average person.

Isn’t there a story in the Bible about a man being objectified and advanced upon by a woman and then thrown into prison because she claimed assault when he didn’t go for it? So there’s that.

[TheSpaceGnome]

It is in our DNA, but rejecting it isn't "advanced" its regressive, and the bible is just fictional nonsense.

Being horny from looking at the opposite sex is normal.

[Tren58]

@TheSpaceGnome I’m not talking about rejecting it. I’m talking about action oriented impulse control. Like, don’t eye rape a stranger or cat call at them just because they are hot. Or not talking about them with your buddies in obscene ways. You know, just being a decent human.

[TheSpaceGnome]

I don't have the impulse to hit on strangers, I have the impulse to avoid strangers.
Disease/danger avoidance is also an instinct.

[TheSpaceGnome]

My first assumption about a woman I don't know well is that they are harboring some kind of trap, an STD, or cheating, or gold digging, until proven otherwise. So I only go after women who hit on me first, and only I've known her for years.

[TheSpaceGnome]

only if I've*

[Tren58]

@TheSpaceGnome that’s an interesting way to live. Sounds lonely. But, if you wait for her to hit on you, couldn’t that be a sign she’s a gold digger?

You do know that the kind of woman you just described is not the majority, right? Just like the majority of men are not rakes. And if it has been the majority of women you have met, you may just be naturally attracted to the baddies.

[TheSpaceGnome]

I do not give women any indication about my finances, so there is nothing for her to see thats "diggable", plus I only date female gamers, and they all have money.

But no, money has never come up, just that they want my dick. The gold dogger assumption, like the others, is just about me not knowing them, and thus not being able to know definitively that they aren't, even if its a low chance. same with the other assumptions, its just a "better safe than sorry" method.

Women I befriend are usually very fast to hit on me, too fast, so I'm stuck stalling them until I figure them oit as a person, which takes a few years.

Strangers I just don't talk to more than a fleeting few words and then i'm on my way, my dating pool is restricted to female friends I've made, so when expanding my search, its a friend search when meeting new people, not a dating search, and is done online, so I have time to go at my own pace, figure them out, and avoid infection risk.

Cat calling and flirting is definitely NOT on my mind, trying to figure out how to find the heart of gold virgin among the sluts is. One that shares my hobbies and interests and views.

I don't know what rake means outside of gardening tools and birds.

[TheSpaceGnome]

My type is the instagram/youtuber cosplay e-girl that plays video games, makes art and music and crafty projects, and is into science, sci-fi, fantasy, anime, nature, toy/model kit collecting, and engineering. But finding non famous ones is hard because this lifestyle is antisocial if you aren't a content creator online, and famous ones are typically taken.

[Tren58]

@TheSpaceGnome
It really shouldn’t take you years to get to know someone’s basic personality and moral standing. If you spend time with them in real life. Online only relationships/friendships don’t cut it, because we can be anyone we want online. I’ve done it to other people and people have done it to me. Always being the perfect version of ourselves we want to put forward. That we think they want us to be.

Also, people change from year to year, so you are always going to be re-discovering a person. Being in a long term relationship is like learning how to love a new person constantly, in a way. So you have to be flexible.

Most girls are not sluts with std’s who aren’t willing to work. I know a bunch of gamer girls who don’t work or make money gaming and make their SO bring in all the money so that they don’t have to stop gaming. Just saying.

You’ve chosen a difficult life by being so closed off and cynical… and having such a specific type. I mean, good grief, no wonder it’s so hard for you to find the right girl. That’s being said without malicious judgment. I just find it sad, and hope you can find some peace.

[TheSpaceGnome]

On average it takes about 3 years to confirm everything important about a person, it doesn't stay restricted to online, thats just the starting point because it allows enough time to evaluate of they are even safe to be around, and because online gaming is the only way to meet people like me outside of a comicon, and those aren't common and are only held once a year and limit the match range to local people when realistically since less than 1% of the US population of adult single women are a match for me, I need to have my range be the entire country, and failing that, just moving to japan.

People do not change. Ever. I'm the same as I always was. They may pretend to be different, until they snap, but their core selves stays the same. flexibility in matches is unreasonable and unrealistic, the person has to be basically you in another body in terms of mental match, or compliment your lifestyle in very specific ways, or it won't work out.

I never said most girls were sluts with stds who aren't willing to work, I said that some are, and I'm not hitting on a woman who I've not confirmed isn't one (let alone the fact that I know nothing else important about her). The point is attraction is earned with time and knowledge, so hitting on strangers is stupid. Gold diggers are rare in gaming, most women gamers buy their own games and have their own pc, its easy to spot otherwise, especially if their library is big.

I'm not cynical I'm optimistic. I expect to find a perfect match despite incredibly low odds because I'm going to make the effort to find her.

You are honestly wasting your breath and have said nothing but irrelivant nonsense the entire conversation, I'm not changing my stance on sny of this.

[TheSpaceGnome]

Also for the few women who have their boyfriend buy all their games, those women are not single, so they aren't even in the pool of gamer women I'm interacting with in that way.

[Tren58]

@TheSpaceGnome irrelevant would mean I didn’t hit on any of your topics. I’m glad to have flustered you into exaggeration. Must have hit a nerve. 😉

I really do hope you find your dream girl. I’m sure she’s out there. But, since you like being so methodical, you might want to consider this information. She might not be willing to wait three whole years for you to even act like you’re interested more than friends. We are intimate creatures who want love and validation, and if someone else out there is willing to give that, we will take the opportunity.

You really want to get to know someone to their core? You experience life with them. You throw yourself into the unknown with them and go through all the ups and downs that life has to offer. That’s when you really know who they are under all their careful pretenses. It’s a risk, because maybe after one year, you decide you don’t like how they handled xyz, but that’s one year, two years, maybe even three months lost. Not years and years of searching, and then three years of testing her before you make a move, only to find that she’s moved on because she was tired of waiting.

[laly520]

nope
men emselves do objectify each others
forcing certain social norms to follow down other men throats

[Sharkstealth]

If you were alive in the 1970s one would get tired of the semi nude or nude photos of Burt Reynolds, Tom Selleck, and Robert Redford.

[laly520]

lol I forgot about those

[Sharkstealth]

The whole body building thing pretty much since man recorded history can be considered making a man an object of desire.

[laly520]

yes good point
it has always been a thing

[Joshydavid25]

Of course they have.. Women are human and capable of those things just like men are.. They didn't just come into place as "women's rights" came to fruition.. There's nothing new under the sun..

[Nikki1989]

Men do it themselves all the time.

[anonanswer]

Men have always been objectified. Hence the terms "manpower" and "man hours." Men are objects of labor and productivity for the wealthy, and objects for enforcing your will on the world for the political rulers.