Why do many people try to pit men's rights AGAINST women's rights?

[Anonymous]

MRAs and feminists should be on the same team: equal rights, eliminate sexism. Where there is bias work to undo it, where there is privilege look to disperse it. No matter who is being discriminated against or who is privileged.

There should be no taking sides when both sides claim to fight for the same thing: equality. It seems especially certain men will only bring up men's rights in order to shut down discussion of women's rights, and when this happens certain women dismiss it by one-upping those men's struggles. Why? if you really want equality, shouldn't you treat everyone's rights as equal

[RavVid]

Few people should disagree with you and some first wave feminists still hold to that. But it is not what is happening in a lot of ways.

Take divorce. What each partner exits with should be based on what they contributed to their household together. That would be fair and equal. If either party had a house before and the other didn't then it should be that way after divorce. If they have save $10K together then it should be pro-rata with their financial contribution.

Instead of equality, equity is applied except mostly women are more equal than men. Equity now means equal outcomes is not equality.

In some areas men and womens interests are directly opposed. Maternity is always a given but paternity isn't and it is in men's interests to categorically know paternity and possibly not in women's interests.

[Asker]

Mens and women's rights are never opposed to each other as long as both are aimed towards equality. With the divorce thing there is a reason for the equity thing too, it's historically to protect people who invest themselves in a marriage instead of in a career. If there is a divorce, they will be left broke and unable to find a decent job with no experience and no references, directly because their marriage prevented them from building a career and savings.

If the law is being abused today or applied only to benefit women, that's sexist and should be fought against by both MRAs and feminists. Just like women's bodily rights as people should be fought for, and men's equal rights as parents should be fought for. None of these are opposed to each other.

[RavVid]

Law should be gender blind should be agreed by all.

[Chazmatazz269]

The powers that be maintain a sense of scarcity of resources. This leads people to believe that if we’re going to give resources to men, that means taking resources from women.
It’s all a sham. As long as the oppressed are fighting amongst themselves, they’re not directing their energies at the actual oppressors. This is literally the source of ALL tribalism in modern societies; racism, sexism, ageism, sizeism, religion vs secular, etc. The only one that is reasonable is classism. Oppression is and always has been the haves vs the have nots. Nothing will change until the majority of people wake up to that fact and learn to challenge the real issues holding them back. Unfortunately, the other myth perpetrated by the oppressors is that everyone can be rich like them if we only work hard and do as we’re told like good cogs.

[Anonymous]

Why have you deleted some of the replies. There was one here that made some good points that I planned to respond to when I had some time and now it's gone. Why did you delete it?

[Asker]

There were a couple of replies that started out with good points and then became very weird or hateful by the end, not the kind of people who are open to discussion so I doubt they would have engaged honestly with any replies. As you can see with one reply I tried to engage with, started out okay and then became weird. No productive discussion. The ones I deleted I have already tried many times to discuss with people who talk like that, they don't want an honest discussion. The one still on, I hadn't seen that kind of reasoning before. But it turned out just the same, nothing productive.

[Opinion Owner]

Nothing productive? You asked a question and people shared their opinions. That's what this forum is about. It's not for people who delete opinions from others just because they think they can't bring them around to their way of thinking. That's very cowardly of you.

[Asker]

Asking questions is supposed to start discussion. If you want to listen to someone talk and never be able to actually converse, go read a MyTake. Or go ask your own version of this question and you can see what I mean when you try to have any conversation with those kind of people when they give their opinion on your question. I'm not trying to be "brave" or change anyone's mind, I'm just trying to ask questions and discuss here. Sorry if that offends you.

[Opinion Owner]

Stop trying to justify it. You and I both know you just want answers you like, and delete the ones you don't. As I said, very cowardly, and not what GAG is about.

[Asker]

Literally none of the opinions I agree with. Some of them completely contradict each other, so how could I even agree with both? You're just trying to justify being upset at me so you don't look like an idiot.

[Opinion Owner]

Nope, criticizing someone for behaving like a coward needs no justification.

[Asker]

Criticizing someone needs justification. You're pretending like I'm behaving like a coward as justification.

[Opinion Owner]

You deleted opinions you didn't like rather than having a discussion with the posters. That is the definition of cowardly.

[Asker]

I deleted opinions that would not have honest discussion. I left opinions that would (or that hadn't tried before). Whether or not I liked them had nothing to do with it, since I didn't like or agree with any of the opinions given here, as I already told you.

[Opinion Owner]

Bullshit

[Asker]

So you don't see my replies disagreeing with opinions that I did not delete (DAYS BEFORE you commented)? Okay then...

[Opinion Owner]

What do those other replies to other opinions have to do with you deleting the opinions in question? You still deleted opinions just because you didn't like them which, as I said, is small and cowardly.

[Asker]

It proves that I didn't delete those opinions "just because I disliked them." If me disliking them was enough reason for me to delete them then I would have deleted all the ones I disliked. I didn't, because me disliking the opinion was not the reason I deleted them. I already told you that though, and you still don't believe me despite proof.

[Djaay]

Equality isn't two equal parts. Neither is as ( ONE) . Equality today is women claiming the same authority as men , that way they don't need to listen to a man or need him. Men are created from the image of GOD , Women from the image of man , from man , for man.. But a woman's commanded commandments are not the same as a man's commanded commandments. So there's NO such thing as Equality as in two equal parts together. Only as one if done right.

[Asker]

Not everyone follows your particular religion, so I don't think we should be making laws and shaping governments based on it. I don't think you would like it if we made laws based on other people's religion that you didn't agree with.

[Djaay]

It's not religion , but biological the we both somehow were created different., But also since you drowned the thought of spiritual belief , sure makes me realize you do know the true and your spiteful ready to lie about it. Then of course this question.

[Djaay]

But 5o answer your question... there no such thing

[Asker]

If it's not religious but biological then why did you only give religious reasons for it until I didn't accept them? And now suddenly it's biological? Sure... I'm not talking about making men and women the same size, or have the same parts or temperament. I'm talking about having the same legal rights, such as voting, equal pay for equal work, and protection from discrimination based on sexist ideas that are not biologically true, such as women can't be responsible or men can't have self control. None of that should be determined by the religious beliefs of a few, or whether an individual has a penis or a vagina. Everyone should be rqual under THE LAW. That's what feminism and MRA fight for, isn't it? They aren't fighting religion. They're fighting government and sexist legal systems.

[Djaay]

That's what's the problem. They've exed out GODS will for his creation. Equality isn't GODS will , but (as one) is his commanded commandments for both. Don't like it , don't believe in it , don't want it hear it , to bad bc GOD doesn't care whether or not you believe it or not. Your choice to either accent towards righteousness or defend within the darkness.

[Djaay]

Decend *

[Djaay]

By the way , having a personal relationship with the Lord isn't religion or any man made concept of traditional beliefs.

[Asker]

So it IS religious. Come on man, be serious. I know you don't want for example a Satanist's religious beliefs to be legally enforced on you. We aren't talking about personal decisions of faith and how individuals live their personal life and relationships. We're talking about government and the law, why people act like women and men can't be treated equally by the law. Not by individuals, nor by religious groups, nor by themselves. By the law and government that EVERYBODY has to be under together. Of all sorts of different personal beliefs and practices. Nobody is saying you can't find a woman who wants to submit to you and serve you as you desire. They're saying women shouldn't be FORCED to submit to and serve their husband's by LAW. It should be personal choice. As you said if it is really my choice, then act like it.

[Djaay]

Reread what I mentioned. A personal relationship (isn't) a religion.

[Djaay]

Those who deny the spirit of Christ or the God of the Bible , as written , are subject to mankind's law.

[Djaay]

The GOD of the Bible only gives us free will as a choice to choose heaven or he'll. Nothing else is your choice to choose as you wish

[Djaay]

Another thing , I don't want a woman to submit to me. To follow the spiritual direction of my lead respectfully then we're talking.

[Asker]

Exactly, personal relationships are a different topic. Everyone should be able to choose their own personal relationships. That's one of the things both feminists and MRAs fight for, not to be forced into a relationship or a particular role in that relationship just because of their sex.

[Anonymous]

Wait, why are you deleting opinions?

[Asker]

I want people open to discussions. The opinions I deleted were from people who only want to rant and not listen to the other side. I left opinions I disagree with who made similar points, but are not obviously hostile to discussion.