Women are not entitled to men's bodies?

[BeMeanToGirls]

Women are entitled to men's bodies to be used to fight and die in war for their protection, but men aren't entitled to women's bodies for fun and pleasure?

Why on earth would any man show up to fight and die for his country's women if he was never allowed to be with any?

It needs to be one way or the other.

Either we are both entitled to each other, or neither to either.
Women can pick up rifles and get shot at when war comes. Men don't owe you anything.

Updates

+1 y

Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely fight for my country if I had a wife. But if I am called to war without ever having had one, it is justifiable to instead go to war against my country.

The point is that men only participate in society and follows its rules in order to get a woman. And to ask that he die for a society that doesn't allow him to have one is tyranny.

[binarybabe001]

The way I see it, if you are a married woman, you made vows to pledge your devotion love, care and support to your husband. This includes giving yourself to him for the purposes of love, procreation and sexual pleasure, your husband IS entitled to your body at this point. if a woman uses her vagina and sex to get what she wants from a man by the time she gets married and has a home and children and has pretty much everything that she wants, sex with her husband is going to be the last thing on her mind because she no longer feels the need to use sex as a tool, when she already has what she wants and the husband who loves his wife and still very much wants to have sex with her is going to feel very lonely and very stressed out and sexually frustrated most likely resorting to internet porn to get his jollies or an affair with another woman who treats him like a man and likes giving up the p***y and my biggest problem with this scenario is when the wife finds out and seems shocked, appalled and devistated by why her husband would cheat on her in the first place! when all she had to do was her wifely duties like giving her husband sex on a regular basis, an occasional blowjob and spending time with him going out on dates and giving him affection that he needs. But, they don't seem to think that those things are necessary anymore because they've already got the wedding ring, the home, the car and the kids. You are right about men not owing anything to women but, unfortunately a lot of women (not ALL) seem to believe that if they are to spread their legs for a man, he owes her something in return for her sexual favors. which, in my opinion is pure crap and nothing more than a more subtle form of prostitution. Sex is not a gift or a favor or a commodity to be sold. It's something that two people want to share with each other, giving and receiving pleasure and expressing love. I guess nobody really gives a s*** about that anymore though.

[BeMeanToGirls]

Wise words. Thanks for your input.

[binarybabe001]

No problemo.

[BrittBratt2416]

Okay time out, for starters who started wars? Men. And why did they start wars? For control and power just so their legacy would continue on. Men have always started wars and finished wars, so how exactly is that women's fault?

And most men in wars didn't fight just just so they can use that as an excuse to get vagina, the either fought for territorial reasons cause men are driven to be conquers, leaders, and builders. So the fact that you're trying to use war as a guilt trip to women for not handing their bodies over to you, is really disgusting and sad. No hate or anything, but I really can't believe you said this.

[HikerDude]

"And most men in wars didn't fight just just so they can use that as an excuse to get vagina..."

You need to reexamine human history, because the rape of the local female population has always been considered a fringe benefit for victorious soldiers in war.

[BrittBratt2416]

@HikerDude It was war, those men were in constant battle and around death and men almost everyday, of course they were going to take the advantage of women when they had a chance to. Still doesn't make it right though.

[HikerDude]

I agree, none of it is right. But soldiers have always raped and always will, probably as much out of anger and hatred as anything.

What the OP is trying to say is that there's an extreme iniquity in a society treating young men as parasites while also compelling us to sacrifice our lives to protect that society. Fortunately there has been more awareness of the sacrifices of soldiers in our recent wars, because they do pay a terrible price to protect us.

[BrittBratt2416]

@HikerDude What the OP is trying to say is that there's an extreme iniquity in a society treating young men as parasites while also compelling us to sacrifice our lives to protect that society.

and this is what I wish this is how he would have wrote/said it, then I would have agreed with him. I agree that there is an attack on men today in our society, agree that masculinity has been made to look bad, but when you tell me I shouldn't use my body to fight for you, me, and our freedom simple because you refuse to let me use your body, rubbed me the wrong way.

[HikerDude]

Yes, everyone should have freedom of choice to choose a mate--or not. And actually, we don't have a draft *right now*, so it's not an immediate issue. But I do agree with his overall point. No one seems to care when men struggle in society. Women are so far ahead of us in education right now, for instance, and no one seems to care.

[BrittBratt2416]

@HikerDude I agree, men definitely need help in education and mental health.

[belarus]

I enjoy reading your posts. It has helped me understand why so many guys want nothing to do with us.

[BrittBratt2416]

@belarus you're welcome

[MimiHashima]

I don’t believe anyone is “entitled” anything from both sides.. Where’s the humility/humbleness in that? Does this make one better than the other? Do they want to protect or keep what they believe to belong to them or they believe is theirs? Though still, it’s vital to think carefully on where both stand in things in communications and actions and if things can work out from both ends.. If this is short term or long term... discretion, consideration, and common sense need to be in this... otherwise things likely won't go well.

[MimiHashima]

no one should be forced into doing anything... advising is okay rather than to say nothing at all to a matter that could possibly raise as a flag and fester into a problem thats not looked at carefully or is looked at carelessly...(Counsel is important but is most helpful when tact is used and is beneficial in the right way; look at things from both sides, not jus one) I personally want to be married to my partner and best friend and work from two as one like a team. His actions clarify what his result maybe and where we both stand in the relationship. I would also talk with him about the matter (s) too and want us both to be strengthened.

[HikerDude]

You are right that men have always been considered disposable commodities to most societies. As much as feminists complain about various forms of male oppression, their sacrifices pale when one examines the sacrifices of men.

A great-great uncle of mine was wounded in the Battle of the Somme. Kitchener's Army took over 57,000 casualties on the first day of the battle. The first day. The battle lasted for 4 months.

[BeMeanToGirls]

Well it's time we push back. We won't fight and die for nothing. And if they insist that we do anyway, well then we will know who our closest enemies are.

[grega239]

i didn't say that. true currently there's no draft but most western countries have it just in case. i have no idea what the author of the post was going for. ofc men are supposed to stand guard thats our "job" as warriors, since nature made men physically stronger and more durable. wht that hs to do with rape, i have no clue

[grega239]

misposted... ok women aren't entitled to our sacrifice in war. men sacrifice ourselves so that women and children can live and rebuild. you dont have to do it. you can step aside and let the attacker roll through and take all that pussy

[BeMeanToGirls]

Your 1st comment:

Yes it was men's "job" to stand guard because we were "paid" with a wife. They took the wife part away from the equation. I don't know about you, but I won't work a job for free where I could be maimed and die. And what does rape have to do with anything?

Your 2nd comment:

Millions of men in America might as well step aside and let the attacker have all that pussy. We're not allowed to have it anyway - women's choice. Why do you think the more liberal EU states opened their borders then their rape statistics went through the roof? Women's choice. In the very same countries where women can make any sexual accusation, true or not, against any male citizen of that country and have him hauled off to jail.

[grega239]

men didn't stand gurad bcs they werr paid with a wife. they stood guard bcs those women were mothers of their kids. wife isn't a monetary currency. women didn't choose to get raped by migrants. yea women have a lot of privilages and some will abuse said privilage. some women are just shitty people.

[BeMeanToGirls]

Good strategy. Write in broken, ambiguous language so your position can't be dissected... because no one can tell what it is.

[Anonymous]

Our entitlements are few, and other people and their bodies are not on the list. You are entitled the pursuit of happiness. Not happiness. Just the pursuit. Nobody wants to make the changes and put in the real effort to pursue anything. They want it handed over, no work. That is not reality. Never, ever will be.

[jimyee]

There's more then just women that the fighting men are protecting and just because a guy can fight for his country doesn't mean they're entitled to do what ever they want, that's some stupid shit.

[BeMeanToGirls]

Everything sounds stupid when it comes out of your mouth. What you did there is called a Strawman argument. You take your opponent's viewpoint, twist it around into something absurd, then attack THAT instead of your opponent's original idea. Because you know you can't refute the original claim anyway.

[jimyee]

Um no. You just can't comprehend logic.
And by the way, I've seen you bring up the draft, the last time the draft was in effect men could basically do anything they wanted. The reason they can't now is because of something we like to call progress, something you clearly don't understand.

[BeMeanToGirls]

Lmao keep making shit up. Everyone who reads this will clearly see what a fool you are.

[jimyee]

Lol🤣 you're right, they're all going to think im the fool🤣 are you a comedian? If not you should consider it.

[Anonymous]

I don't think anybody's bodies should be used to fight and die in war. You can't have a war if everyone refuses to fight; the politicians would just have to have at it among themselves.

And obviously everybody has a right to body autonomy.

Your argument is bizarre; using one horrific manifestation of patriarchy to try and justify another.

[BeMeanToGirls]

My argument is not bizarre. It is personal. But since women don't recognize men as persons, this will always be a fault in our communication.

My personal argument is that I was made to register for selective service in case of a draft strictly because I'm male, regardless of this age of "equality." Men will be the ones fighting and dying to protect women and their rights while the women sit cozy and safe at home. And for what? Men can't even approach women anymore without risking legal consequences from overblown sexual harassment laws and everything-is-rape laws. Meanwhile women lavish over the men who would NEVER fight to protect them, and collectively turn their backs on the men who were ready and willing to fight and die for their safety.

So the deal is off. The social contract has been ripped to shreds. See if your neck tattoo loser fuckboys will be there for you when war comes.

[Opinion Owner]

But we don't live in an age of equality at all, the only people saying that are neoliberals. That's what feminists are continuing to take issue with. And you'll find most intersectional feminists oppose the draft if not most wars in general.

I don't know what you're basing all this 'women lavish over bad men' stuff from; it does seem to just be hypothesised by you personally.

There is however plenty of evidence demonstrating shocking levels of violence perpetrated by men. Hence there clearly needs to be social change, alongside a harm reduction and rehabilitation focused legal system

[grega239]

intersectional feminists? are you kidding me. they are the ones hell bent on making mens lives miserable. most violence is done by men true. exept men are moatly on the recieving end of that violence not women. also. no legal cnage isn't needed bcs i refuse to have laws enforced against me bcs a small percentage of men a cunts. and those laws would effect men that are innocent automatically making them a target of suspicion.

[Opinion Owner]

@grega239 what laws are you so worried about specifically?

We could go into the semantics of 'violence' and how for example policies which lead to deprivation are acts of violence.. But if I leave out the pedantry then I agree with you that men are the main demographic on the receiving end of violence, unless you're looking at the stats on domestic violence and sexual violence specifically.

[Opinion Owner]

@grega239 That among other things is a big concern for me as an intersectional feminist. I think that many men are socialised to believe that there are few acceptable means for them to express themselves, a main one being violence. I believe men are also often taught to endure violence when the alternative is to look weak. Men are more likely to be 'health avoidant', ie. refuse to seek both physical and mental healthcare, because of this screwed up view of masculinity we as a society have. The view that men are somehow naturally predatory is harmful to everybody, hence intersectional feminists oppose rape culture: because we believe that that model of male sexuality is utter bullshit.

[grega239]

yes men are tought not to cry, complain, or show emotional weakness. and us men perpetuate this bcs women dont like beta weaklings. anf guess what most men dont have a problem with such things. intersectional feminism is actively trying to take away mens personhood by trying to shame us by saying that our masculinity is toxic even though that same masculinity created and build the world that most women didn't have to lift a finger to create.

[Opinion Owner]

@grega239 the whole 'alpha/beta' thing is bullshit. You definitely won't hear feminists talking in those terms.

What we mean when we talk about toxic masculinity is that in society we're taught to glorify a concept of masculinity that is toxic: one where men can only express emotions through violence or sex (or with an intimate female partner); men who aren't straight are subject to stigma and abuse; and men are in constant competition with one another for power. The whole point is as intersectional feminists we reject the idea that this is how men naturally are or should be. We affirm men's personhood. Toxic masculinity as I've said is toxic to everyone; we don't want men to be victims of violence or ill health and we don't want men to be viewed as 'naturally predatory'. We don't want male victims of abusive women to be shamed or disbelieved. If you're against those things then we're at least somewhat on the same side.

[Opinion Owner]

@grega239 I definitely take issue with this idea that women under the current system 'don't lift a finger'. I think you can quite easily that that's not true.

[grega239]

thats the problem feminist think men suffer bcs of masculinity. men are naturally in competition with each other to establish dominance. alpha means leader. women tend to like such men therefor every man i meet is a potential rival. thats how things naturally are. my masculinity isn't a problem, the problem is women who demand equality. and i know this sounds like im against womens equality. im not but its hard and confusing when a woman says she wants to be treated equally bcs i can't treat a woman like a man bcs u aren't a man. its called benevolent sexism aka chivalry.

[BeMeanToGirls]

@grega239
Yeah, women's rights means more, more, more for women at the expense of men. It is no wonder that every nation in history that has adopted this lunacy has fallen.

[Opinion Owner]

@grega239 but science doesn't back up what you're saying at all. As a species we survive by co-operating with one another, not constantly competing. Toxic masculinity isn't natural, it's learned.

[BeMeanToGirls]

@AnonymousCoward

Toxic masculinity is LEARNED because it gets men laid. That's what you and your sisters have wrought.

Healthy masculinity: building communities and relationships, driving civilization forward with innovation, integrity, standing up for justice and truth, treating people with kindness and respect as they should be treated... These virtues are like vagina-repellant in these times.
That is your fault and your fault alone.
The onus is on Women for sexually rewarding Toxic masculinity.

[Opinion Owner]

If you believe that you're being played. Seriously what basis to you have to believe that women are attracted to toxic masculinity?

Plus this concept of sex as a 'reward' is gross. Sex is something to be shared and enjoyed together by everyone involved, not something given by one person to another as a 'reward

[BeMeanToGirls]

"what basis to you have to believe that women are attracted to toxic masculinity?"

My eyes and ears. Observing the world around me. A wealth of personal testimonies. Women are powerfully sexually attracted to awful men. Sex is their reward for being terrible human beings.

[Opinion Owner]

Kinda just seems like you're trolling me

[BeMeanToGirls]

I'm 100% sincere and it makes me furious that it is so ubiquitous but all women pretend it isn't real. EVERY time I'm in public I see several cases of it.

[Opinion Owner]

How can that be the case? You just look at strangers and judge what they're like as people? Come off it

[BeMeanToGirls]

Holy shit it's so extremely obvious by the guys body language and neck tattoos and shitty tone of voice what kind of person he is. If women had ANY social skills other than lying and vagina you could see it too.

[Opinion Owner]

This is just coming across as jealousy. If you're practicing what you're preaching it doesn't seem to be making you very happy

[BeMeanToGirls]

Of course I'm jealous. The scumbag abusive thug felons get endless women but the men who made something of themselves get nothing!

Then lying, disingenuous cunts pretend that they hate toxic masculinity when that is the only kind of masculinity they will get in bed with!

[Opinion Owner]

My boyfriend isn't any of those things.

I think your main issue is looking at women's bodies as prizes to be won while hating us for not living to please you

[grega239]

toxic masculinity is a made up thing created by feminiats to shame men. its also funny how u say men and women survived by cooperating given that feminism is activelly trying to eliminate gender roles and the fliping of shit that occures of a man even says sandwich. not to memzion feminisms habit of projecting its hive mind mentallity onto men and then collectively blame men for the actions of a few individuals. feminism also seem to be convinced men and women are 2 different species.

[grega239]

also also. feminism in its current form is is literally complaining about women gaining superior rights to men and being held responsible for the actions those rigjts grant u. (men have no reproductive rights women do). speaking of rights. women have the privilage of voting for free men have to register to vote. women are equal to men but are largely unable to compete with men. why would men compete with womwn, you ask? for job promotions, pay raises, etc. remember, women wanted equallity with men. you want the same pay as a man perform ur job as good as a man would.

[Opinion Owner]

@grega239 Quite the opposite; we want to eliminate gender roles because they're harmfully restricting. In general feminists are structuralists, or at least have elements of structuralism in our theory: we don't blame men, we blame societal structure; which we all contribute to but which is bigger than us all.

I don't know what you're talking about when you say that about registering to vote; here in the UK everyone has to register to vote, and you don't have to pay (though being cynical people who can't provide a home address ie. the poorest and most vulnerable will hit obstacles when going to register to vote).

What you're talking about as far as job markets etc. go is another form of unnecessary and harmful competition: capitalism. Capitalism is at the centre of many feminist issues because it has traditionally always excluded women from paid work while requiring the unpaid labour of women to prop it up (eg. caring for the young and the elderly, housekeeping).

[grega239]

gender roles aren't social constructs. provider, hunter, warrior are mostly male roles and you dont get to take that away just bcs u FEEL they're damaging to men. if u dont like female gender roles, thats fine, leave male gender roles alone. capitalism is based on merit. and if women can't keep up with men thats not mens problem its ur problem. gender roles aren't restricting. no 1 is forcing women to be mothers or anything else for that matter. caring for the young. are u seriously suggesting women should be paid for taking care of the kid they give birth to. bcs if u r men should be paid to be a father aswell.

[grega239]

capitalism is the best system we currently have. if women want to have the same pay you need to do ur job as good as a man. women have every oportunity to be scientists or presidents. all u have to do is show that u are capable. i know women who are hard workers, i also know many women who are utterly useless. men aren't paid more bcs penis, we're paid more bcs on average men are more skilled

[Opinion Owner]

@grega239 except that gender roles vary cross culturally, strongly suggesting that they're culturally rather than biologically based.

Capitalism is based on a tiny minority of people owning the means of production and forcing everyone else into wage slavery.

I believe that parents of any gender are entitled to paid parental leave and to state funded childcare; it benefits society as a whole in much the same way as state education does.

Men in general are privileged in many careers because unlike women they aren't expected to require parental leave. Not only does this impact women's opportunities, it also has a negative effect on fathers who want to take parental leave.

[Opinion Owner]

@grega239 As I've said also, what types of work are valued under capitalism are gendered. Caring professions are generally both poorly paid and associated with women. Similarly teaching in countries where the majority of teachers are women are undervalued, but interestingly in countries where teachers are mainly male teaching is a better paid job. Within the same countries over time you can see changes in how types of work are valued directly correlating with the gender of the people doing the work. Biology started to be considered a 'softer science' than chemistry or physics at the same time as more women began to study to be biologists, and conversely computer scientists were basically considered to be glorified typists before the field became male dominated.

[grega239]

gender roles vary depending on culture? ok explain to me why men are physically stronger faster and more durable than women if it wasn't for the fact that male gender roles require superior physical attributes. you are litteraly denying science at this point.

ur description of capitalism aound more like comunism. capitalism is the beat way to get rid of poverty bcs it promotes the idea that if u work hard your reward will be higher. if you want a good job you must prove that you have the skill and experience to qualify for said job

dont women already get some financial support if thay have a kid?

[grega239]

men aren't expected to take parental leave. thats true but it is expected that they work even harder bcs they are now responsible to provide food for his wife and child. here's a little masculine secret. no man has a problem with that bcs we have accepted that its our gender role to make sure our family is taken care of so that the mother of our child can stay at home whete its safe. i dont care if parental leave sets a woman back at her career. women CHOOSE OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL TO BECOME MOTHERS. no1 is forcing u into pregnancy bcs no1 has the right to do so. if u value ur career so much dont be a mother. if u do choose to be a mom, ur just gonna have to accept the fact that motherhood is a hugely demanding responsability. fathers also have the option to take parental leave but most of them dont for rrasons I've already explained

[grega239]

yea i agree some jobs are genderd. oilrig workers are men sewege cleaners are men garbage collectors, construction workers, soldiers. mostly men. i also my boss is a 40 yr old mother of 2 so ur argument of missed opportunities due to pregnancy is bullshit.

[Opinion Owner]

@grega239 depends on the men and women you're comparing. Read Margaret Mead's Papua New Guinea study also.

Capitalism is what has led to 8 dudes owning as much between them as the 3.6 billion poorest people in the world put together www.theguardian.com/.../inequality-gap-widens-as-42-people-hold-same-wealth-as-37bn-poorest . How anyone can still see capitalist societies as meritocratic is beyond me. One's ability to qualify for any job is hugely dependent on the background they were born into; it's a birth lottery.

In most developed countries employers are legally required to offer some kind of paid maternity leave. But in the US there is no such requirement. In most countries there's either a much shorter period of paternity leave offered or none at all.

[Opinion Owner]

@grega239 Forgive me if I don't accept your word as representative of all men against evidence like the fact that in countries where flexible parental leave is offered there are huge increases in the number of men taking advantage of it: www.thelocal.se/.../dads-in-sweden-took-more-paternity-leave-in-2017
Your arguments continually seem to suffer from you trying to generalise based on your subjective experience as opposed to representative research.

As far as 'it's their choice!' goes; that would hold more weight if access to sex education, contraception, and abortion weren't still such an issue. Even then; fathers make the choice to have children too and should surely be equally responsible for them.

[BeMeanToGirls]

I never thought I would agree with a leftist, but you're on point on the birth lottery.

[Opinion Owner]

I appreciate you saying that

[grega239]

ok what system is better than capitalism atthe current moment? i dont reprrsent all men bcs unlike u im not a collectivist. i speak from observation. sweden? the most feminist country has a higher number of dads taking a leave? you dont say. if i remember correctly where i live contraception pills are easy to get. how it i hold more weight. choosing to be or not to be a mom isn't rocket science. fathers are equally responsible for their child. thats why they work overtime

[grega239]

and pls stop with the reading suggestions and subjectivity seeing how u denied factually provable biological science by saying gender roles are a social construct

[Opinion Owner]

@grega239 my reading suggestions are actual scientific sources which counter what you're claiming about gender roles being a natural phenomenon. You're claiming science backs you up but you can't actually point to the scientific evidence you're referring to, because if you were to do that I could easily demonstrate that it's been discredited.

Libertarian socialism is a better system.

The rest of your first comment just doesn't really make enough sense to engage with. My being a collectivist isn't relevant; it's a fact that it makes no sense to speak about what we all ought to be doing as if your experience were universal when everyone's experience is different.

And as I've already said: choosing not to become a parent is going to be much harder for people who lack sex education, access to contraception, and abortion. Because those things are how you control pregnancies. Your response seems to be that you deny anyone lacks those things which is clearly a ludicrous claim.

[grega239]

you want me to back up my claim of gender roles being a natural thing? turn on the nature chanel. most animal species on this planet have male and female gender roles., and yes humans are animals. you being a collectivist is the problem. im an individualist. my life experience is mine and mine alone. if some men rape and murder people thats not a reflection on me, nor is it my problem bcs i personally am not involved in such things. if u think i should feel sorry bcs another male did something wrong, you are deluded. how is the lack of sex ed going to impact a womans decision to have kids. i never had sex ed. i dont even know how that looks like and i turned out just fine. if women need such education ok go ahead and have it. i dont need it bcs there's no such thing as male contraception exept maybe condoms (which women seem to hate).

[BeMeanToGirls]

@grega239
You're right. Reality takes precedence over theory and statistics.

[Opinion Owner]

@grega239 YOU turn on the nature channel and see that there are animals who can literally change sex part way through their lives, a wide array of different family structures and intraspecies group dynamics including egalitarian ones; and also that they are changeable. Consider the troop of chimps who lost all their alpha males to poisoning and created an entirely new structure for their society, which later rejected any newcomers who attempted to behave like 'alphas' (I'd link you but you don't want to read my links, probably because you're sealioning me)

To be an individualist is to reject one of the main features of our species however which is that we are incredibly social and interdependent. Hence we've developed language and theory of mind, and hence we're driven mad by solitary confinement. However much thatcherist bullshit you spout, society absolutely exists and it's one of the things that defines us.

[Opinion Owner]

@grega239 I would think it's fairly obvious that if you aren't educated as to how reproduction and contraception then you won't be able to control whether you become a parent. Actually yes there is male hormonal contraception now; there are also vasectomies. But regardless of who actually takes the contraception if you're having sex it's absolutely your responsibility to ensure it's safe if you don't want to become a parent.

[Opinion Owner]

You know for something to be a theory it has to be backed up with evidence? Otherwise it's a hypothesis. What I'm saying is backed up by research. If you have a problem with quantitative data (though that seems a strange position) there's plenty of qualitative too

[grega239]

when i turn on the nature chanel9/10 i see male animals fighting and hunting and female animals taking care of their offspring. yes male seahorses give birth, female lions hunt and other examples, nut the majority of animals behave according to their gender roles. as an individualist i dont consider my self part of a gender, racial, religious, or ideological group. the only "collective" i would consider being a part of is my national identity and even thats a strech. i socialise as an individual. if all other men are genicidal psychos, thats still not my problem bcs i am not. i dont know why we're talkimg about sex ed bcs feminism has. made me slightly paranoid of approaching women bcs of feminisms constant effort to make men look like potential bad guy, so i have no sex life to speak of and no im not contradicting myself here with regards to individualism bcs feminism is grouping me in the male group. and no a theory is something that has yet to be proven or disproven.

[grega239]

also if humans are interdependent, hiw can you claim that gender roles are a social contruct. a mans reproduction is dependent on a woman and when said woman is pregnant she is dependent on said man to earn enough money to provide food, shelter clothing and so on. i have also just explaind to you why men make more money and have better jobs. bcs they are driven by their gender role to take care of his family not to oppress women

[Opinion Owner]

@grega239 it's laughable how you're actually admitting that you're understanding of biology is pretty much at the level of an edutainment tv programme :') . Your view of gender as naturalistic suggests that your understanding of sociology, ethnography and anthropology is maybe gleaned from a video-tape you once watched on as an infant on one of those wheeley classroom teles.

All this individualist shit is too far beyond the pale. Imagine thinking you and your personality and worldview just spontaneously came into being with no input from any kind of socialisation

[Opinion Owner]

*your

[grega239]

ur an idiot. individualism means that i as an individual am only responsible for me, my responsabilities and my actions. at no point did i claim that individualists dont socialise. i do. thr wage gap for example. women as a collective make less than men as a collective, bcs individual women leave their jobs to have a kid which means that individual women is contributing to women making less money as a collective. men dont have the bodly function of childbirth but instead have "the male privilage" of being hardwired to increase their workload when they become a father, therefore men as a collective make more.

[grega239]

futhermore. if gender roles werent a thing both men and women would have the same physical structure. the fact that i am physically sttonger, faster and can endure more makes me better at male grnder roles where as you as a woman have the ability to give birth makes you better at feamle gender roles. if gender roles are a social construct why did humans evolve into 2 different subcategories of man and woman, none of who would survive without the other long enough for either of us to evolve to the point where we can argue over a phone. and like i said 9/10 animal species including humans behave and act according to the gender roles they evolved into. chimpanzees evolved in the same way. and there's absolutely no way for you to make a case that male chimps created gender roles as social constructs to keep female chimps down.

[Opinion Owner]

@grega239 this is sealioning. You're just making the same arguments again and again in the hope of wearing me down. I refer you to the points I made earlier: that if you believe sex differences in the natural world are that cut and dried then it shows up your ignorance about the natural world; and that how physical traits, jobs/types of labour etc. are VALUED is what constitutes power inequalities (ie. ideology)

[grega239]

oh im sorry for boring u with OBSERVABLE REALITY OF LIFE ON THIS PLANET. so to stop this im gonna get to the point. you deny provable scinece of how life evolved. you've been brainwashed into thinking that intersectional feminism is correct despite the fact that in the last couple of years this ideology has been debunked disproven and discredited so many times that all i can say at this point is that your doing it intentionally for a political agenda that will never ever work bcs humans dont have a collective hive mind like you seem to think.

[grega239]

and as long as you treat me as a member of a collective, i will always be your ideological rival bcs im not gonna stand for people like you blaming me for other ppls deeds just bcs i share physical attributes with them just like im not gonna blame women as a collective for the treatement i've recieved from INDIVIDUAL women. you can provide how ever many links to "studies" that say im wrong, i will not care bcs 90%of said studies are a contradiction to the last 25 years of my lifes experience and observations. bye

[Opinion Owner]

@grega239 I've used sources to back up what I'm saying. The only evidence you're citing is your own experiences and assumptions. You can't invoke science without actually showing any scientific methodology behind your reasoning. It's utterly hypocritical.

[grega239]

you must have skipped biology class in school

[Opinion Owner]

@grega239 Only science I got As in, other than Sociology

[yasii]

They get paid to go to war. It's their decision to do so. No one is forcing them. And if they want sex, they can also pay for it. Or just not be such an entitled asshole and they'll get s girlfriend

[BeMeanToGirls]

Selective service is in case of a draft aka forced to go to war. Men are required to sign up. Women are not. Our bodies are forced to do things against our wills but somehow women are not.

Paying for sex is a wonderful idea. Legalize it nationwide and let backpage come back.

Being good men is what kept them lonely in the first place. Going back to that doesn't do them any good in regard to getting women. And none of this is being entitled without cause. Women are entitled to male bodies going to war for them, yet you think men deserve nothing for this? This clearly shows which gender feels entitled without cause.

[yasii]

I don't know in which backward country you live, but where I'm from, no one is forced to go to war. And if men are forced to go, the fair consequence would be that women had to go too. And not that they have to be some kind of sex slaves for soldiers. Prostitution is also legal in my country. It seems like you are figthing on the wrong ends. Why not figth to make Prostitution legal? Or forced draft illegal? Nobody should be forced to do anything they don't want. Neither men, nor women

[lilaqua]

Men don't have to go to war, it's a choice, they don't owe you anything. Women have the ability not to raped. WOW, really big basic human right.

[grega239]

not a choice if i get drafted

[lilaqua]

@grega239 Not every place has drafts. But it's hardly logical to say that because men can get drafted women can be raped.

[BrittBratt2416]

@grega239 Why are you even bring up drafting when drafting doesn't even happen anymore? Most men choose to go into the military, unless there's a ww3 you don't have to worry about getting drafted.

[grega239]

i answered i just fcked it up and posted wrong

[BeMeanToGirls]

@BrittBratt2416
We DO have to worry about getting drafted because every one of us was made to register for selective service.
You are confusing MEN with WOMEN in that YOU don't have to register in case of a draft. You get all your rights for free while men have to pay for themselves AND you.

[BrittBratt2416]

Dude what are you complaining about, there are women in the army now who are risking the same thing.

[grega239]

no they aren't. women aren't frontline combatants for the moat part. which is why almost 100% combat casualties are men

[BrittBratt2416]

@grega239 It doesn't matter, you do know just because they are in the army, they can still be a target, taken as hostages, and killed.

[belarus]

@grega239 You may want to check pentagon stats. That's not true!

[grega239]

ofc women soldiers also die in wars. fucking duuuuuh. what stats?

[BeMeanToGirls]

@grega239 They're just trying to lie to you bro. It may not be 100% male casualties but probably like 98%. They're trying to take that little technicality and blow it waaaaay out of proportion because they can't honestly refute what you're really saying.

[grega239]

i know

[TechniCarl]

I hate to break it to you but women do fight and die for their countries

[BeMeanToGirls]

Not in this one.

[Anonymous]

Yes, it's terrible. I'm ashamed to be a woman.

[Opinion Owner]

I'm looking into a sex change.

[Anonymous]

Women tend to be more against the idea of war than men so I don't know what you're going on about.

[BeMeanToGirls]

Women love war, conflict, and violence and seek it out in their everyday lives. This is evident in their extreme breeding predilection toward abusive, violent men.

[Opinion Owner]

Said by someone with the username "BeMeanToGirls"

[BeMeanToGirls]

Yeah focus on my nearly meaningless username instead of what I said.

It's the equivalent of saying "you're right so I'm going to try to discredit your character instead"

[belarus]

Unfortunately he's right. Women do have this weird attraction to losers

[Opinion Owner]

@belarus It indicates that your information is likely to have your own personal bias instead of fact.

[Opinion Owner]

Politically, women tend to vote against war more often than men. That is what I'm getting at.

[Opinion Owner]

I as a woman do not feel entitled to having men fight for me and I believe that men should feel entitled to my body. Bodily autonomy is of the upmost importance to me.

[Opinion Owner]

should not*

[BeMeanToGirls]

When you're done talking about how you "feel" let's get back to talking about how it is.

You might not "feel" entitled to men being drafted to fight war for you, but they will still be forced to, under penalty of law, when the draft is reinstated.

You say bodily autonomy is of the upmost importance to you, but the truth is you only care about your own and, by extension, other women's bodily autonomy.
Men's bodily autonomy is utterly insignificant to women. They literally, not figuratively, could not care less.

[Opinion Owner]

You said "either we are both entitled to each other, or neither to either." I am basically arguing for neither, I am against war unless it's absolutely necessary and even then I'm against the draft. If I'm not allowed to give my stance on how I feel, you shouldn't either. Also don't try to tell people what you think their truth is, it really discredits your arguments. You don't know me and you are very wrong about my views. Like I said I don't think ANYONE should be forced to go to war. I don't think anyone should be entitled to another person. I'd rather die than have somebody be entitled to my own body so I sympathize with anyone who feels like they don't have control of what happens to it.

[BeMeanToGirls]

So you argue for neither. Well put and I agree with you on body entitlement.