You are confusing hatred with indifference. If a guy is going his own way he needs to shut the fuck up and go already. Nobody actually cares and talking about something without actually doing it is just attention seeking.
Well first of all Feminists can't be misandrists (unless they also hate women equally). Secondly MGTOW has very little to do with "Men going their own way" and very much to do with trying to attack women and feminists from a social rights perspective. This is why people generally hate them, because its a fake group trying to hide behind actual social issues to try score cheep shots at a group that is actually trying to help because said fake group can't make an actual position to oppose feminism in the first place.
An example : The MGTOW next door has a wife with no personality , no intellect, she is Stepford , he hates her lack of intellect , he hates her robotic non personality and he has a definite disdain for her complence with no input
He married what he believed to be the perfect woman and he hates her
He made his bed and now he has to deal with it
MGTOW rants about wanting compliant women, when they find her , they complain about her as much as they complain about feminist
They don't like a gold digger then complain about working women
They complain , that is why, nothing makes them satisfied
"Is MGTOW any more misogynistic than feminists who are misandrist?"
No, it's not more misogynistic than Femnists WHO ARE misandrist. But unlike Feminists, where there's such and such, there's nothing about MGTOW that isn't in someway based on pure misogyny. And know there's MGTOW who claim they don't hate women and I'm not saying they necessarily HATE them, but once you let them explain their reasons, you'll always get to premises that are misogynist one way or another. And that's just not the case with Feminism. There ARE Feminists who are misandrists, of course. But it's not inherent and there's also the ones who simply fight for women's rights. Is the misogyny of ALL MGTOW worse than the misogyny of SOME Feminists? No, of course not.
I don't hate them, i have the same amount of respect for them as i would for anyone else's. I just don't like them type of guys who sleaze around women and then after sleeping with them, tell them their not into committed relationships and treat women with no respect and act hatred towards all of them.
It might surprise men but not all women are "feminist bitchs" even if we have are own opinions nows. If a guy wants to live his life his way that's none of my business and i couldn't give a shit about it just as long as he doesn't turn into a woman hating incel douchebag.
I do not have anything against Men Going Their Own Way. However, Men Getting Triggered Over Women is quite annoying. If you are happier on your own it's great, live your life and be the best version of yourself you possibly can be.
I don't have any trouble understanding this, but I'm also a former ardent, passionate Feminist. Everything comes down to the way women are being marketed to. Feminists hate MGTOW, not women.
Remember that MGTOW is a group of men that have banded together in their efforts to reject women. Not only does it reflect a deep seated resentment in lots of men (so many modern women adopted feminism because they were of the impression that men respected what the feminists considered to be powerful women), but MGTOW also promotes certain ideologies that women feel will deprive them of the progress and rights that they have obtained thus far.
Feminism is trying to promote female advancement (not domination, which is a common misconception). MGTOW is trying to promote men not dealing with women.
I am not a women and I think they are a trap for the week, the wounded and the stupid. Just because there is a group of people that thinks like you doesn't mean thay are right! There is a very big group of people that actually believes the earth is flat!
Look I get it, they make people feel like they are not alone and that what happened so far wasn't their fault. "It was all because of female nature" or whatever. That can be really apealing. But it's nothing more than closing your eyes to reallity to ease your pain.
I just find it stupid. MGTOW guys basically hate women, so even if those women did hate them, who cares? The women hated them first. All the men are doing is complaining and retaliating to something when the other party couldn’t care less. That’s why it’s stupid,
That’s the whole reason for MGTOW, and that’s why those of us who are AGAINST modern feminism don’t even want the MGTOW guys. As some users have already said, we want men, not somebody who’s gonna cry like a baby because he can’t get a woman.
Is it that they hate women or that they don't trust them and want to avoid being around them? Hate is a strong word. From my research I think they don't like how women behave.
Only that the women don’t want them and they get mad about it. So of course they don’t like it. Until, of course, they meet those of us who are against feminism and are actually FOR them and not against them (men), then they want us and we don’t want them because they generalize us all in one group. If you’re gonna go your own way, we don’t care. It gives us more leadway to the guys who are worth it when the crazy ones get out of the way lol
The men who are really going their own way don't talk about it, they just do it. The MGTOW are just begging for pity. It's complete BS and that's why women find the whole thing so tiresome. It's just another take on the "why don't women go for nice passive-aggressive guys like me instead of picking some guy who has a life and is straight about what he wants"
This is a good observation. In effect, "real MGTOW don't talk about it." I think that some men ARE real MGTOW but also talk about it. Why? Excitement? Maybe a woman burned them in divorce or through sexual abuse claims that were unfounded and they are angry.
Some MGTOW ARE angry. Nobody says that MGTOW have to be stoic.
They are angry and by proclaiming themselves MGTOW they are begging some woman take pity and try to change their mind. They want a partner but instead of trying to figure out how to make themselves more attractive, they have rage quit. It's really tiresome.
This is an interesting perspective and probably cuts to the core of a debate: sex. Cisgendered men want it and women are the gatekeepers. To get it men have to behave in certain ways and/or contribute economically to a woman (more than just transactional prostitution). Some men find those costs too high or that the deal was changed unilaterally by the woman and they are responding in a particular way.
well a woman has to do certain things to get what she wants from you too right? she has to trade economically what she can offer to gain your trust and your commitment. men are the gatekeepers of commitment. and yes understandably so, some women demand higher prices for their boobies, while some men demand higher prices for their commitment.
the individual constatnly has to check with "how high" of a demand they can get away with. and if you are tired of playing that stupid game, i completely understand that.
As I was responding above I thought about gold diggers. They are reviled, pitied, and celebrated at the same time by different groups. Look at onlyfans. com. it's a way for a woman (or a man but mostly women) to monetize their beauty and sell the sexual fantasy to men. Or a sugar baby. Or a woman who 'married well'. Even high maintenance girlfriends. Before I get called out I realize that there are pick up artists, players, kept men, gigolos (does anyone use that term anymore?), and other men who take advantage of women.
well everyone has their "customer". you have certain things to offer and you're looking for certain things you want.
i think it is fairly stupid to get mad at gold diggers, if those are not the kind of people you want in your life anyway.
if i could get people to pay me for getting naked, you can bat your ass, i'd get naked in no time. so i don't blame onlyfans thots for doing that.
i don't think players take "advantage" of women. women aren't dumb animals that can't help themselves. if you know how to push their buttons so they wanna fuck you, good for you. they are still free to say no to you, so i don't see anything shady in that.
I suspect that some of the mgtow crowd were uncles or 'unlucky in love.' Given their lack of power in romantic relationships some don't want to play at all. Then there's the ones who got raped in their divorces (figuratively). Some may (in their minds) have reasons to hate.
Sure, some men don’t get everything they want, romantically. More often than not it’s because of something they’ve done or haven’t done. You’ve got to put in the work if you want to get good with quality women. You cannot be an average Joe and expect a hot ass wife to worship you until you die. You got to work for it. And sure, some men get “divorce raped” and many of them don’t want to take a look at why and how it happened. These men have a right to be upset but they are directing their pain incorrectly. I’m not surprised these men have failed and faulty relationships with women. More often than not, they do have some responsibility for it. But many just don’t want to self correct. They want to stay average. Well, great. Leave better men for the better women.
@Aislin9 You're right, they can be, but it's a scientific paper from a reputable site that's probably not worth targetting for malware due to the low numbers of visitors.
"In this paper, we present a large-scale characterization of the Manosphere, a conglomerate of Web-based misogynist movements roughly focused on “men’s issues,” which has seen significant growth over the past years. We do so by gathering and analyzing 28.8M posts from 6 forums and 51 subreddits. Overall, we paint a comprehensive picture of the evolution of the Manosphere on the Web, showing the links between its different communities over the years. We find that milder and older communities, such as Pick Up Artists and Men’s Rights Activists, are giving way to more extremist ones like Incels and Men Going Their Own Way, with a substantial migration of active users. Moreover, our analysis suggests that these newer communities are more toxic and misogynistic than the former."
Men are the ones in a position of power, so it comes across as mocking/insulting to complain about their problems. Like a white person complaining about how they've been affected by racism or a rich factory owner complaining about workers asking for wages they can live off of. When you have it better than everyone else, is it really surprising that people roll their eyes at your "problems"?
So much to unpack... Between 65 and 70% of divorces in the usa are initiated by women. In over 90% of the cases child custody goes to the mother. Spousal support also tends to flow in one direction (not to the men). Perhaps men don't have it so great and it isn't one sided? I do believe that whites can be the victims of racism just like women can commit spousal abuse. It's not the majority but it happens. As to the factory owner comment, I believe in efficient markets and employment at will unless the employer is a monopsony. But, hey, we can disagree.
Again, when you have it better than everyone else, is surprising people roll their eyes at your "problems"? No one said men have it perfect. They said they have it better than women. White people have it better than literally everyone else. And the factory owner has it better than the workers.
Why I am MGTOW I am a 60 year old man, never married. I Choose MGTOW as a form of personal risk management. Come on folks , there is another profile not even considered of a modern man that chooses MGTOW. It does not mean that I don’t have relationships with women, I do and many are strictly professional. I hire ($$) women to clean my house, wash my clothes and make me a sandwich. I also utilize the services of women to meet my needs as a man ($$). The huge difference is I have total control of what I want and when. I also enjoy the company of women and call many my friend. Fortunately I realize that anything more than that can be extremely risky to the quality of my life. It is not that complicated.
It's in the name: men >going< their own way. It's never men >gone< their own way. They are in a perpetual state of announcing their departure without ever actually leaving. And pretty much everyone hates people who choose to build their adult lifestyle around crying for attention.
Lol you and I both know that tear all this fantasy shit down, if on a mass scale woman stopped receiving the benefit of male labor, woman would all die.
Modern women I should say. Back in the day, women could hack it without a man around. No longer. They say they can but ignore the massive amounts of money they receive
I have no problem with MGTOWs or any of the other "justice" groups and similar things to it, but I DO hate people who belittle others because they are in those categories though
What Girls & Guys Said
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You are confusing hatred with indifference. If a guy is going his own way he needs to shut the fuck up and go already. Nobody actually cares and talking about something without actually doing it is just attention seeking.
Well first of all Feminists can't be misandrists (unless they also hate women equally). Secondly MGTOW has very little to do with "Men going their own way" and very much to do with trying to attack women and feminists from a social rights perspective. This is why people generally hate them, because its a fake group trying to hide behind actual social issues to try score cheep shots at a group that is actually trying to help because said fake group can't make an actual position to oppose feminism in the first place.
An example : The MGTOW next door has a wife with no personality , no intellect, she is Stepford , he hates her lack of intellect , he hates her robotic non personality and he has a definite disdain for her complence with no input
He married what he believed to be the perfect woman and he hates her
He made his bed and now he has to deal with it
MGTOW rants about wanting compliant women, when they find her , they
complain about her as much as they complain about feminist
They don't like a gold digger then complain about working women
They complain , that is why, nothing makes them satisfied
"Is MGTOW any more misogynistic than feminists who are misandrist?"
No, it's not more misogynistic than Femnists WHO ARE misandrist. But unlike Feminists, where there's such and such, there's nothing about MGTOW that isn't in someway based on pure misogyny. And know there's MGTOW who claim they don't hate women and I'm not saying they necessarily HATE them, but once you let them explain their reasons, you'll always get to premises that are misogynist one way or another. And that's just not the case with Feminism. There ARE Feminists who are misandrists, of course. But it's not inherent and there's also the ones who simply fight for women's rights.
Is the misogyny of ALL MGTOW worse than the misogyny of SOME Feminists? No, of course not.
Interesting parsing/redefinition. At its root mgtow is sexist. Feminism is sexist the other way.
No, it's not.
I don't hate them, i have the same amount of respect for them as i would for anyone else's. I just don't like them type of guys who sleaze around women and then after sleeping with them, tell them their not into committed relationships and treat women with no respect and act hatred towards all of them.
It might surprise men but not all women are "feminist bitchs" even if we have are own opinions nows. If a guy wants to live his life his way that's none of my business and i couldn't give a shit about it just as long as he doesn't turn into a woman hating incel douchebag.
I do not have anything against Men Going Their Own Way. However, Men Getting Triggered Over Women is quite annoying.
If you are happier on your own it's great, live your life and be the best version of yourself you possibly can be.
I don't have any trouble understanding this, but I'm also a former ardent, passionate Feminist. Everything comes down to the way women are being marketed to. Feminists hate MGTOW, not women.
Remember that MGTOW is a group of men that have banded together in their efforts to reject women. Not only does it reflect a deep seated resentment in lots of men (so many modern women adopted feminism because they were of the impression that men respected what the feminists considered to be powerful women), but MGTOW also promotes certain ideologies that women feel will deprive them of the progress and rights that they have obtained thus far.
Feminism is trying to promote female advancement (not domination, which is a common misconception). MGTOW is trying to promote men not dealing with women.
I am not a women and I think they are a trap for the week, the wounded and the stupid. Just because there is a group of people that thinks like you doesn't mean thay are right! There is a very big group of people that actually believes the earth is flat!
Look I get it, they make people feel like they are not alone and that what happened so far wasn't their fault. "It was all because of female nature" or whatever. That can be really apealing. But it's nothing more than closing your eyes to reallity to ease your pain.
No reason to like or hate it
I just find it stupid. MGTOW guys basically hate women, so even if those women did hate them, who cares? The women hated them first. All the men are doing is complaining and retaliating to something when the other party couldn’t care less. That’s why it’s stupid,
*hate women for not wanting them
That’s the whole reason for MGTOW, and that’s why those of us who are AGAINST modern feminism don’t even want the MGTOW guys. As some users have already said, we want men, not somebody who’s gonna cry like a baby because he can’t get a woman.
Is it that they hate women or that they don't trust them and want to avoid being around them? Hate is a strong word. From my research I think they don't like how women behave.
Only that the women don’t want them and they get mad about it. So of course they don’t like it. Until, of course, they meet those of us who are against feminism and are actually FOR them and not against them (men), then they want us and we don’t want them because they generalize us all in one group. If you’re gonna go your own way, we don’t care. It gives us more leadway to the guys who are worth it when the crazy ones get out of the way lol
Marxist feminists are just as bad as MGTOW. Neither represent any significant portion of the population so they can be ignored
Yes but, as we've seen with Marxists in general, eventually people listen to them.
People also listen to MGTOW also, just not many.
The men who are really going their own way don't talk about it, they just do it. The MGTOW are just begging for pity. It's complete BS and that's why women find the whole thing so tiresome. It's just another take on the "why don't women go for nice passive-aggressive guys like me instead of picking some guy who has a life and is straight about what he wants"
This is a good observation. In effect, "real MGTOW don't talk about it."
I think that some men ARE real MGTOW but also talk about it. Why? Excitement? Maybe a woman burned them in divorce or through sexual abuse claims that were unfounded and they are angry.
Some MGTOW ARE angry. Nobody says that MGTOW have to be stoic.
They are angry and by proclaiming themselves MGTOW they are begging some woman take pity and try to change their mind. They want a partner but instead of trying to figure out how to make themselves more attractive, they have rage quit. It's really tiresome.
Simple
well obviously, if your tits and pussy usually gets you what you want, you get angry at people that don#t grant you the power you usually have xD
This is an interesting perspective and probably cuts to the core of a debate: sex. Cisgendered men want it and women are the gatekeepers. To get it men have to behave in certain ways and/or contribute economically to a woman (more than just transactional prostitution). Some men find those costs too high or that the deal was changed unilaterally by the woman and they are responding in a particular way.
well a woman has to do certain things to get what she wants from you too right? she has to trade economically what she can offer to gain your trust and your commitment. men are the gatekeepers of commitment. and yes understandably so, some women demand higher prices for their boobies, while some men demand higher prices for their commitment.
the individual constatnly has to check with "how high" of a demand they can get away with. and if you are tired of playing that stupid game, i completely understand that.
As I was responding above I thought about gold diggers. They are reviled, pitied, and celebrated at the same time by different groups. Look at onlyfans. com. it's a way for a woman (or a man but mostly women) to monetize their beauty and sell the sexual fantasy to men. Or a sugar baby. Or a woman who 'married well'. Even high maintenance girlfriends.
Before I get called out I realize that there are pick up artists, players, kept men, gigolos (does anyone use that term anymore?), and other men who take advantage of women.
well everyone has their "customer". you have certain things to offer and you're looking for certain things you want.
i think it is fairly stupid to get mad at gold diggers, if those are not the kind of people you want in your life anyway.
if i could get people to pay me for getting naked, you can bat your ass, i'd get naked in no time. so i don't blame onlyfans thots for doing that.
i don't think players take "advantage" of women. women aren't dumb animals that can't help themselves. if you know how to push their buttons so they wanna fuck you, good for you. they are still free to say no to you, so i don't see anything shady in that.
I generally don't care about the MGTOW tbh (no offence) they can go their on way
No, mgtow are the haters. I’m all for them staying out of the way.
They threaten to go their own way but they never do! Instead they whinge on here day and night about bad bad bad females.
I suspect that some of the mgtow crowd were uncles or 'unlucky in love.' Given their lack of power in romantic relationships some don't want to play at all. Then there's the ones who got raped in their divorces (figuratively). Some may (in their minds) have reasons to hate.
Sure, some men don’t get everything they want, romantically. More often than not it’s because of something they’ve done or haven’t done. You’ve got to put in the work if you want to get good with quality women. You cannot be an average Joe and expect a hot ass wife to worship you until you die. You got to work for it. And sure, some men get “divorce raped” and many of them don’t want to take a look at why and how it happened. These men have a right to be upset but they are directing their pain incorrectly. I’m not surprised these men have failed and faulty relationships with women. More often than not, they do have some responsibility for it. But many just don’t want to self correct. They want to stay average. Well, great. Leave better men for the better women.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2001.07600.pdf
@Ad_Quid_Orator what is that? You shouldn't post pdf files, they're dangerous.
@Aislin9 You're right, they can be, but it's a scientific paper from a reputable site that's probably not worth targetting for malware due to the low numbers of visitors.
"In this paper, we present a large-scale characterization of the Manosphere, a conglomerate of Web-based misogynist movements roughly focused on “men’s issues,” which has seen significant growth over the past years. We do so by gathering and analyzing 28.8M posts from 6 forums and 51 subreddits. Overall, we paint a comprehensive picture of the evolution of the Manosphere on the Web, showing the links between its different communities over the years. We find that milder and older communities, such as Pick Up Artists and Men’s Rights Activists, are giving way to more extremist ones like Incels and Men Going Their Own Way, with a substantial migration of active users. Moreover, our analysis suggests that these newer communities are more toxic and misogynistic than the former."
Men are the ones in a position of power, so it comes across as mocking/insulting to complain about their problems. Like a white person complaining about how they've been affected by racism or a rich factory owner complaining about workers asking for wages they can live off of. When you have it better than everyone else, is it really surprising that people roll their eyes at your "problems"?
So much to unpack... Between 65 and 70% of divorces in the usa are initiated by women. In over 90% of the cases child custody goes to the mother. Spousal support also tends to flow in one direction (not to the men). Perhaps men don't have it so great and it isn't one sided?
I do believe that whites can be the victims of racism just like women can commit spousal abuse. It's not the majority but it happens. As to the factory owner comment, I believe in efficient markets and employment at will unless the employer is a monopsony. But, hey, we can disagree.
Again, when you have it better than everyone else, is surprising people roll their eyes at your "problems"? No one said men have it perfect. They said they have it better than women. White people have it better than literally everyone else. And the factory owner has it better than the workers.
Why I am MGTOW
I am a 60 year old man, never married. I Choose MGTOW as a form of personal risk management. Come on folks , there is another profile not even considered of a modern man that chooses MGTOW. It does not mean that I don’t have relationships with women, I do and many are strictly professional. I hire ($$) women to clean my house, wash my clothes and make me a sandwich. I also utilize the services of women to meet my needs as a man ($$). The huge difference is I have total control of what I want and when. I also enjoy the company of women and call many my friend. Fortunately I realize that anything more than that can be extremely risky to the quality of my life. It is not that complicated.
It's in the name: men >going< their own way. It's never men >gone< their own way. They are in a perpetual state of announcing their departure without ever actually leaving. And pretty much everyone hates people who choose to build their adult lifestyle around crying for attention.
Damn we didn’t get our answer as to why... but women certainly are triggered by it. I know why tho... its actually pretty obvious
short answer is mgtow is a threat to the modern woman’s way of life
Why are they a threat? Because women rely on the economic output of men? Don't let a feminist hear you say that.
Lol you and I both know that tear all this fantasy shit down, if on a mass scale woman stopped receiving the benefit of male labor, woman would all die.
Modern women I should say. Back in the day, women could hack it without a man around. No longer. They say they can but ignore the massive amounts of money they receive
I have no problem with MGTOWs or any of the other "justice" groups and similar things to it, but I DO hate people who belittle others because they are in those categories though