Weren’t they once called confirmed bachelors, who were comfortable enough in their own skin and with their own choices to live their lives as they wished, without explanation to others? Seeing MGTOW and narrative that goes with it reminds me of the retort when people post on social media that they’re quitting Facebook. It’s not the airport, they don’t have to announce their departure. Go forth, live your lives with or without women. It’s your choice how you live your lives.
I understand the basis of it. The way I see it, the movement is full of men who are tired of getting screwed over by women. They are typically driven by fear of what damage bad women can do to them financially, legally and in their careers. They basically quit trusting women. Their concerns are valid. Many (not all) women have impossible standards and are not moral enough to leave a guy without trying to take his shit. Many of my thoughts align with theirs, but I am not as extreme as them. I still give love a chance, but I am highly cautious, especially with the crazy feminist and metoo crap going around. Hopefully we find a vaccine for it soon.
In my opinion they are the same as women who are feminists. On one hand you have women who are fighting for equity and equality, great. You also have the men who are fighting for equality in divorce proceedings against excessive alimony and child support and unfair custody/visitation. On the other hand you have the women who are misandrists, the anti-men all men are scum. You also have the guys who are anti-women, these are the incels the I have no social skills and can't get a date so it's womens fault group, these are the one's full of hate and the loudest ones you always hear about.
1
0 Reply
Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
Knowing a lot of mgtow men, I support them and understand their reasoning. I don’t listen to the nonsense shaming crap online or believe the trolls.
Women want to be “strong and independent” so mgtow men let them be. They refuse to be the protector, provider, and bank account for women, especially at the detriment of themselves.
It’s actually giving women the “equality” they wanted.
@ThisIsMyOpinion This is why I am married, I understand and fully support the mgtow belief. I expect my wife to be an adult. No tantrums, take responsibility for her actions and choices, be responsible financially, no false victim bullshit, no double standards, no shit tests or games.
I have been married almost 10 years and we are the strongest relationship the people in our lives know of. Mgtow reject the shit, but accept the ones who are not.
I have met some men claiming to be mgtow here that completely rejected marriage. They didn't believe that such women exist. That they are the devil incarnate. I am surprised to meet a mgtow with your views that I share.
@ThisIsMyOpinion Most of the mgtow men I know who are real mgtow want relationships, but they just don’t want the entitled childish crap. Marriage is sometimes scary because of how much power if gives women to destroy a mans entire life when it’s over.
That's why we need to pick a good woman and not someone that will leech us of everything. Specially in countries like the US where there is so much bias against men.
@ThisIsMyOpinion I totally agree. My one buddy is so tired of entitled spoiled narcissistic Western women that he is moving to the Philippines where women aren’t spoiled.
If you're speaking about ALL women, there's a lot of women in the 'west' who don't deisre all that... looking outside of the lens of the internet and the radical feminists will show you this... Maybe don't try to turn a hoe into a houswife next time then.. I have known terrible men and they've taken from me, you can blame me ok,,... But I will never say I judge all men on the actions of the shitty ones ok? :) 💕
@ThisIsMyOpinion "That's why we need to pick a good woman and not someone that will leech us of everything".
I agree, BUT women often change and younger men (say in their early/mid 20's) often are not experienced in determining the difference between a "good woman" and a "bad woman" who is simply on her best behaviour until after the marriage.
Given the stakes at risk for a man, marriage is really the most dangerous thing a man can do.
@KrakenAttackin why the hell would they change that much after marriage? Well I also don't get how your courts are so bias so maybe it's a US women thing.
@G3tAClue Yes, from what I've seen it is a small subculture though. I'm surprised a lot of people don't seem to know about it. I remember when I first heard of it 4 or so years ago.. I got tangled up in a Youtube comment section with them, trying to reason, and they were really upset. It seems like they just really hate women, allegedly based on poor experiences in relationships.. but it's so small that I don't see their thinking as reflective on others.
I do agree. They should go away if they are going to be rude.. 😔❤
Well, I lived with a guy who identified as MGTOW and he was the absolute worst person. He made it his mission to lie to as many women on tinder as possible about his intentions because he said “they deserved it and I’m beating them at their own game.” When in reality, he’s super fucked up person who is making himself look like a duck wad.
He wouldn’t even talk to me unless I hated on my own gender so I did sometimes just so he would shut up about how horrible women are. He’s 43 and acts like this. Yeah, not giving his own gender a good name.
And I run into these motherfuckers, every single day on the internet. You can’t escape them anymore. It seems like these dudes search the internet for women to destroy.
Well, you can't identify as MGTOW as it's a philosophy.. Its more like you follow it.. But yeah that guy is definitely bitter.. He must have been really hurt by some woman, and now feels it's women's nature to be like that... But also I don't think the internet is the best gauge either.. Cause people on the internet are crummy all of the time period.. LOL..
@JDavid25 Whether he was hurt by a woman in the past or not, it's no excuse to take out his frustration on others who have done nothing to deserve it. The principles of MGTOW revolve around protecting yourself from toxicity and risks so that you can be the best version of you.
Nobody's best self ought to involve hatred of people they don't even know, much less expressing that through the kind of behaviors she described above.
It makes sense. In most of the English speaking world forming a relationship with a woman has become a liability, for both legal and social reasons. Most MGTOW have never heard of the acronym and are simply reacting to women's behavior and protecting themselves.
MGTOW can mean a lot of things, and while many people will say that it's about avoiding relationships with women, it isn't necessarily, though it always involves men recognizing danger in women that isn't normally recognized by society and taking steps to protect themselves.
The degrees of that recognition and the severity of the steps will vary from person to person.
They don’t affect me at all. Bachelors have been around since the beginning and a few want to be know why they are. Okay, no skin off my nose. However, the social engineers are beginning to worry about the level of male dropout in society; they may be the silent majority of a new bachelorhood related or not.
Unless they weild terms like just bang them and leave them and other harmful relationships argument I can tolerate them. Don't create a toxic situation, either go your own way just don't make it worse for those who doesn't. If you want to live without female company do so, or on your own term just don't treat them like trash.
I've had to google this since I am not familiar with it. Since I know what it is now, I feel its an ego thing created by those who feel emasculated. Seems like a rather immature thing (which is probably why I was not familiar with). It just seems weird.
The vast majority of us have done just that, gone and not talked about it. Unfortunately the small percentage who spit venom about it all over the internet still amount to a fairly big group of hateful idiots. Thus what people see and hear disproportionally ends up coming from the hateful voices. I think feminism gets represented by the worst few in the same way, coloring what men read and hear also. You only hear the (defective) squeaky wheel.
I just wish we were at a point in the human race, that everyone, whether men, women, mental and physical disabilities, and any race can be seen as equal. It is so quick that humans form a "them versus us" mentality, regardless of political opinions. It seems so inherent of humans, but we can all be so much better. I still like to hope one day we will reach this point, but I don't know it it'll be in our lifetime
What do I think of MGTOW? I think MGTOW is the only wise decision men and boys can make, if they want to protect themselves in a rigged system. As of this August I'm officially a 34 year MGTOW Monk. Looking back I know now that being MGTOW saved me in so many ways. I wouldn't advise any men or boys to go near females much less date or marry, it's way too dangerous.
Waste of time. Instead of looking to the past and returning to tradition, men think it's easier to only view women as objects or to not be with women at all.
That's terrible. Men need to lead women not abandon them.
I do understand why men would be frustrated with modern women though. But mgtow is the wrong way
Just found out about this. I think it’s great, like you do you. It’s good that they’re not letting the social pressure of getting married and having kids getting to them.
5
0 Reply
Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
Good advice as a general philosophy in terms of the “self-ownership” stuff. Then there’s the attached practical part which is avoiding relationships with women. I get that they’ve drawn the short straw and have had bad relationships or divorces with bad women, part of that is them walking into it because they didn’t know better at the time. But now that they’re there, it makes sense that they would walk away. But it lines up with issues afflicting wider society and they’re trying to whether that storm. Of course they know that it’s not sustainable for every guy to act that way, but it’s not intended to be an enduring way to live. It’s “thing are bad now, so we’re going to steer clear until it’s better”.
I think that they chose the easiest way and gave up. I think that men should keep trying to communicate with women. Even if men fail to get a relationship women can be good friends. Women have a right not to be attracted to a man. Men have a right not to be attracted to a woman. But they should not generalise. I don't like radical feminists and crappy females as well as incels and rude males. But I would never make generalisations about all women or all men. It's stupid
It's your choice, nobody forces you to communicate with women, lol. Just take responsibility for possible negative consequences which your decision may lead to
Mostly angry, rejected, scorned men with marginal social skills who either can't, or won't, engage in the social customs necessary to interact with a woman. Then even if they are successful at that part, can not handle her beyond that (that includes sexually, mentally, emotionally), especially if they chose poorly. They also don't understand what a rock solid pre-nup is !! While it's true the legal system favors the woman/mother in divorces, that can be countered by the pre-nuptial agreement.
I don't know, I just get the feeling that nobody would be screeching about a subset of women bowing out from the dating scene and going their own way. I doubt they'd face any derision from society whatsoever. Must be a double standards thing.
It isn't that they don't want monogamous relationships. It is that they don't want to get married and end up losing their money and kids when the women divorces them. The court system is unfair, so they avoid it. It makes sense.
@nathanp97 From listening to MGTOW videos on you tube it isn't even marriage they fear. It comes down to any commitment to date exclusively and to have any give and take. Life is to short to deal with someone who has trust issues to that extent.
Yes, many don't like those relationship either, because those relationships are one sided. The guy has to plan and pay for dates, while the women doesn't really bring anything to the table.
The problem is lots of women fake it to get a ring and act differently once married and others just leave when the relationship gets a little hard. . most women initiate divorce. The best solution is to say no to marriage until the court system is fair.
I think the petty part is women expecting men to pay for them and plan all the dates. Doesn't really seem like a fair relationship. Women don't tend to offer much to relationship. I'm not exactly MGTOW MGTOW because I don't have a problem being in a relationship, I just won't pay for everything. Eg. I'll split the bill on every date, or we will take turns paying and if she doesn't like that she is cheap and selfish, so I dodged a bullet.
@nathanp97 paying for first dates and planning shows chivalry and dominance, which is a part of masculinity that girls are attracted to. That's why alpha males get all the girls. Would you want us to wear mustanches and not shave our legs? No. Because it's not feminine. So we do our best. Wear makeup, do our hair, get waxing, go tanning, diet, dress up just to attract a man. Do you want a woman who does none of that and just lets herself go? No. We put a lot into dating too
@nathanp97 Isn't there something to be said about the role men play in a relationship? I never thought it was about "expecting" a man to pay or plan anything.. I thought it was more about men wanting to take care of their woman/the woman they're dating. I certainly don't take that sort of thing for granted - I had a relationship in which I felt so awful about exactly what you're saying that I paid for almost everything, planned almost everything, drove us wherever, etc.. then the man ended up cheating on me, and I had decided that maybe I hurt his ego too much. That maybe, men like to take charge in the relationship on those things. It's not "expected", it's just what we presume to be the chivalrous and dominant thing , as @Rebeccalions is saying.
@nathanp97 I have absolutely no problem paying for every other date. But I always feel most comfortable when only one of us pays each time. Splitting a check with your significant other has always seemed.. odd to me. It kinda seems petty, even. I've never done it but it really just feels too friendly. Years ago in one of my first psychology courses, we had this discussion as a poll/entire class of 200 people... it was so interesting and I enjoyed it. U just gave me an idea... hehe 😆
Ya, and most men wouldn't have a problem doing that if they act got something in return. The problem is women aren't required to do what they did back in the day, when men payed for dates, etc... yet they still expect men to act the same.
I don't really care if a women saves her legs, they can wear there hair in a ponytail or something I don't care, why wax, tanning is a waste of money, everyone should be healthy you don't need a crazy diet and I don't care if the girl wears sweets. Most men don't really care that much about those things, + most women when asked will say they dress up for themselves not men, so your argument is mute. Paying and planning dates isn't masculine and if women aren't expect to do the same as they did in the past in relationships why should me be expected to do the same. It is the 21 century, there is this thing called equality. Women really wanted it, yet now they are back tracking because they don't want equality they just want the best parts of being a women and a man, and not the bad stuff that comes with it.
Cook, clean, stay home with kids and be obedient and submissive. After all that stuff changed, somehow men still got stuck with all the same responsibilities. And before you say anything, no I don't want a woman who is/does all those things. Obviously, sharing the cooking and cleaning is important though, so she still has to be able to do some of it. The rest I don't really like.
People who "have a different opinion on it" are often those who put MGTOW with the incels, when they're not the same thing. Or girls who are annoyed and scared to lost the power sex give them over men.
Overall, I understand the movement, even tho I couldn't be a part of it.
Also, I tend to notice those with a negative view of it tend to be either a) males who don't have much to lose, and b) females who say things like "where did all the good men go?" after they hit the wall.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
94Opinion
Weren’t they once called confirmed bachelors, who were comfortable enough in their own skin and with their own choices to live their lives as they wished, without explanation to others? Seeing MGTOW and narrative that goes with it reminds me of the retort when people post on social media that they’re quitting Facebook. It’s not the airport, they don’t have to announce their departure. Go forth, live your lives with or without women. It’s your choice how you live your lives.
I understand the basis of it. The way I see it, the movement is full of men who are tired of getting screwed over by women. They are typically driven by fear of what damage bad women can do to them financially, legally and in their careers. They basically quit trusting women. Their concerns are valid. Many (not all) women have impossible standards and are not moral enough to leave a guy without trying to take his shit. Many of my thoughts align with theirs, but I am not as extreme as them. I still give love a chance, but I am highly cautious, especially with the crazy feminist and metoo crap going around. Hopefully we find a vaccine for it soon.
In my opinion they are the same as women who are feminists.
On one hand you have women who are fighting for equity and equality, great. You also have the men who are fighting for equality in divorce proceedings against excessive alimony and child support and unfair custody/visitation.
On the other hand you have the women who are misandrists, the anti-men all men are scum. You also have the guys who are anti-women, these are the incels the I have no social skills and can't get a date so it's womens fault group, these are the one's full of hate and the loudest ones you always hear about.
Knowing a lot of mgtow men, I support them and understand their reasoning.
I don’t listen to the nonsense shaming crap online or believe the trolls.
Women want to be “strong and independent” so mgtow men let them be.
They refuse to be the protector, provider, and bank account for women, especially at the detriment of themselves.
It’s actually giving women the “equality” they wanted.
What if women don't want them to be any of that?
Not the provider, the protector, be ATM machine, etc?
@ThisIsMyOpinion This is why I am married, I understand and fully support the mgtow belief. I expect my wife to be an adult.
No tantrums, take responsibility for her actions and choices, be responsible financially, no false victim bullshit, no double standards, no shit tests or games.
I have been married almost 10 years and we are the strongest relationship the people in our lives know of.
Mgtow reject the shit, but accept the ones who are not.
I have met some men claiming to be mgtow here that completely rejected marriage. They didn't believe that such women exist. That they are the devil incarnate.
I am surprised to meet a mgtow with your views that I share.
@ThisIsMyOpinion Most of the mgtow men I know who are real mgtow want relationships, but they just don’t want the entitled childish crap. Marriage is sometimes scary because of how much power if gives women to destroy a mans entire life when it’s over.
That's why we need to pick a good woman and not someone that will leech us of everything.
Specially in countries like the US where there is so much bias against men.
@ThisIsMyOpinion I totally agree. My one buddy is so tired of entitled spoiled narcissistic Western women that he is moving to the Philippines where women aren’t spoiled.
Whatever his little heart desires. Maybe he shouldn't have tried to turn "a hoe into a housewife"...😄
@ThisIsMyOpinion The female feminist noise machine constantly screams "patriarchy, rape culture, pay gap, don't slut shame" etc., etc, etc, etc.
A part of MGTOW is seeing women for the hypocritical children they collectively are.
If you're speaking about ALL women, there's a lot of women in the 'west' who don't deisre all that... looking outside of the lens of the internet and the radical feminists will show you this...
Maybe don't try to turn a hoe into a houswife next time then..
I have known terrible men and they've taken from me, you can blame me ok,,...
But I will never say I judge all men on the actions of the shitty ones ok? :) 💕
@KrakenAttackin I agree with u...
3rd wave feminism is something else... 🙄
@KrakenAttackin those women you speak of are a minority.
@PonyCarGirl98. Fair enough, you are a refreshing change.
@ThisIsMyOpinion You are finally beginning to understand.
@KrakenAttackin to understand what?
@ThisIsMyOpinion "That's why we need to pick a good woman and not someone that will leech us of everything".
I agree, BUT women often change and younger men (say in their early/mid 20's) often are not experienced in determining the difference between a "good woman" and a "bad woman" who is simply on her best behaviour until after the marriage.
Given the stakes at risk for a man, marriage is really the most dangerous thing a man can do.
@KrakenAttackin why the hell would they change that much after marriage?
Well I also don't get how your courts are so bias so maybe it's a US women thing.
Its a online community of 12 year old girls trapped in a man’s body. They make guys in general look so bad.
Still waiting for them to actually go their own way rather than telling us women they will. Like, fucking to already.
How do they make guys in general look bad just because you happen to run into some individuals who are bitter? That sounds kina silly.
@JDavid25 I agree...❤
@G3tAClue Yes, from what I've seen it is a small subculture though. I'm surprised a lot of people don't seem to know about it. I remember when I first heard of it 4 or so years ago.. I got tangled up in a Youtube comment section with them, trying to reason, and they were really upset. It seems like they just really hate women, allegedly based on poor experiences in relationships.. but it's so small that I don't see their thinking as reflective on others.
I do agree. They should go away if they are going to be rude.. 😔❤
😊👉..
Well, I lived with a guy who identified as MGTOW and he was the absolute worst person. He made it his mission to lie to as many women on tinder as possible about his intentions because he said “they deserved it and I’m beating them at their own game.” When in reality, he’s super fucked up person who is making himself look like a duck wad.
He wouldn’t even talk to me unless I hated on my own gender so I did sometimes just so he would shut up about how horrible women are. He’s 43 and acts like this. Yeah, not giving his own gender a good name.
And I run into these motherfuckers, every single day on the internet. You can’t escape them anymore. It seems like these dudes search the internet for women to destroy.
Well, you can't identify as MGTOW as it's a philosophy.. Its more like you follow it.. But yeah that guy is definitely bitter.. He must have been really hurt by some woman, and now feels it's women's nature to be like that... But also I don't think the internet is the best gauge either.. Cause people on the internet are crummy all of the time period.. LOL..
Oh yeah, dude. People on the internet suck but it’s still entertaining 😂
@G3tAClue Yes, they're terrible on the internet because they can hide behind a keyboard.. keyboard warriors 😎😆
@JDavid25 Whether he was hurt by a woman in the past or not, it's no excuse to take out his frustration on others who have done nothing to deserve it. The principles of MGTOW revolve around protecting yourself from toxicity and risks so that you can be the best version of you.
Nobody's best self ought to involve hatred of people they don't even know, much less expressing that through the kind of behaviors she described above.
@DCooper I agree.. He doesn't follow the principles of MGTOW.. He is just a butter guy..
It makes sense. In most of the English speaking world forming a relationship with a woman has become a liability, for both legal and social reasons. Most MGTOW have never heard of the acronym and are simply reacting to women's behavior and protecting themselves.
MGTOW can mean a lot of things, and while many people will say that it's about avoiding relationships with women, it isn't necessarily, though it always involves men recognizing danger in women that isn't normally recognized by society and taking steps to protect themselves.
The degrees of that recognition and the severity of the steps will vary from person to person.
They don’t affect me at all. Bachelors have been around since the beginning and a few want to be know why they are. Okay, no skin off my nose. However, the social engineers are beginning to worry about the level of male dropout in society; they may be the silent majority of a new bachelorhood related or not.
Unless they weild terms like just bang them and leave them and other harmful relationships argument I can tolerate them. Don't create a toxic situation, either go your own way just don't make it worse for those who doesn't. If you want to live without female company do so, or on your own term just don't treat them like trash.
I've had to google this since I am not familiar with it. Since I know what it is now, I feel its an ego thing created by those who feel emasculated. Seems like a rather immature thing (which is probably why I was not familiar with). It just seems weird.
I’m still waiting for them to actually go rather than just talk about it. They are even worse than the vegans at this point.
The vast majority of us have done just that, gone and not talked about it. Unfortunately the small percentage who spit venom about it all over the internet still amount to a fairly big group of hateful idiots. Thus what people see and hear disproportionally ends up coming from the hateful voices. I think feminism gets represented by the worst few in the same way, coloring what men read and hear also. You only hear the (defective) squeaky wheel.
@DCooper And yet here you are talking about it…
I just wish we were at a point in the human race, that everyone, whether men, women, mental and physical disabilities, and any race can be seen as equal. It is so quick that humans form a "them versus us" mentality, regardless of political opinions. It seems so inherent of humans, but we can all be so much better. I still like to hope one day we will reach this point, but I don't know it it'll be in our lifetime
What do I think of MGTOW? I think MGTOW is the only wise decision men and boys can make, if they want to protect themselves in a rigged system. As of this August I'm officially a 34 year MGTOW Monk. Looking back I know now that being MGTOW saved me in so many ways. I wouldn't advise any men or boys to go near females much less date or marry, it's way too dangerous.
Waste of time.
Instead of looking to the past and returning to tradition, men think it's easier to only view women as objects or to not be with women at all.
That's terrible. Men need to lead women not abandon them.
I do understand why men would be frustrated with modern women though. But mgtow is the wrong way
Just found out about this. I think it’s great, like you do you. It’s good that they’re not letting the social pressure of getting married and having kids getting to them.
Good advice as a general philosophy in terms of the “self-ownership” stuff. Then there’s the attached practical part which is avoiding relationships with women. I get that they’ve drawn the short straw and have had bad relationships or divorces with bad women, part of that is them walking into it because they didn’t know better at the time. But now that they’re there, it makes sense that they would walk away. But it lines up with issues afflicting wider society and they’re trying to whether that storm. Of course they know that it’s not sustainable for every guy to act that way, but it’s not intended to be an enduring way to live. It’s “thing are bad now, so we’re going to steer clear until it’s better”.
I think that they chose the easiest way and gave up. I think that men should keep trying to communicate with women. Even if men fail to get a relationship women can be good friends. Women have a right not to be attracted to a man. Men have a right not to be attracted to a woman. But they should not generalise.
I don't like radical feminists and crappy females as well as incels and rude males. But I would never make generalisations about all women or all men. It's stupid
Communicate with women in the MeToo era? Who are you kidding? No thanks, I'll keep plenty of distance.
It's your choice, nobody forces you to communicate with women, lol. Just take responsibility for possible negative consequences which your decision may lead to
Mostly angry, rejected, scorned men with marginal social skills who either can't, or won't, engage in the social customs necessary to interact with a woman. Then even if they are successful at that part, can not handle her beyond that (that includes sexually, mentally, emotionally), especially if they chose poorly. They also don't understand what a rock solid pre-nup is !! While it's true the legal system favors the woman/mother in divorces, that can be countered by the pre-nuptial agreement.
I don't know, I just get the feeling that nobody would be screeching about a subset of women bowing out from the dating scene and going their own way. I doubt they'd face any derision from society whatsoever. Must be a double standards thing.
And nobody would criticize them for talking shit about men. In fact, you have daytime television shows dedicated to berating men!
Weeds out men who aren't interested in monogamous dating.
It isn't that they don't want monogamous relationships. It is that they don't want to get married and end up losing their money and kids when the women divorces them. The court system is unfair, so they avoid it. It makes sense.
@nathanp97 From listening to MGTOW videos on you tube it isn't even marriage they fear. It comes down to any commitment to date exclusively and to have any give and take. Life is to short to deal with someone who has trust issues to that extent.
Yes, many don't like those relationship either, because those relationships are one sided. The guy has to plan and pay for dates, while the women doesn't really bring anything to the table.
@nathanp97 Maybe men should stop trying to turn "hoes into housewife" then.
The problem is lots of women fake it to get a ring and act differently once married and others just leave when the relationship gets a little hard. . most women initiate divorce. The best solution is to say no to marriage until the court system is fair.
@nathanp97 Live your life how you desire 💕
@nathanp97 hmm I never heard of a guy complaining about paying for dates lol. So petty. These guys are just pussies
I think the petty part is women expecting men to pay for them and plan all the dates. Doesn't really seem like a fair relationship. Women don't tend to offer much to relationship. I'm not exactly MGTOW MGTOW because I don't have a problem being in a relationship, I just won't pay for everything. Eg. I'll split the bill on every date, or we will take turns paying and if she doesn't like that she is cheap and selfish, so I dodged a bullet.
@nathanp97 paying for first dates and planning shows chivalry and dominance, which is a part of masculinity that girls are attracted to. That's why alpha males get all the girls. Would you want us to wear mustanches and not shave our legs? No. Because it's not feminine. So we do our best. Wear makeup, do our hair, get waxing, go tanning, diet, dress up just to attract a man. Do you want a woman who does none of that and just lets herself go? No. We put a lot into dating too
@nathanp97 Isn't there something to be said about the role men play in a relationship? I never thought it was about "expecting" a man to pay or plan anything.. I thought it was more about men wanting to take care of their woman/the woman they're dating. I certainly don't take that sort of thing for granted - I had a relationship in which I felt so awful about exactly what you're saying that I paid for almost everything, planned almost everything, drove us wherever, etc.. then the man ended up cheating on me, and I had decided that maybe I hurt his ego too much. That maybe, men like to take charge in the relationship on those things. It's not "expected", it's just what we presume to be the chivalrous and dominant thing , as @Rebeccalions is saying.
@nathanp97 I have absolutely no problem paying for every other date. But I always feel most comfortable when only one of us pays each time. Splitting a check with your significant other has always seemed.. odd to me. It kinda seems petty, even. I've never done it but it really just feels too friendly. Years ago in one of my first psychology courses, we had this discussion as a poll/entire class of 200 people... it was so interesting and I enjoyed it. U just gave me an idea... hehe 😆
Ya, and most men wouldn't have a problem doing that if they act got something in return. The problem is women aren't required to do what they did back in the day, when men payed for dates, etc... yet they still expect men to act the same.
I don't really care if a women saves her legs, they can wear there hair in a ponytail or something I don't care, why wax, tanning is a waste of money, everyone should be healthy you don't need a crazy diet and I don't care if the girl wears sweets. Most men don't really care that much about those things, + most women when asked will say they dress up for themselves not men, so your argument is mute. Paying and planning dates isn't masculine and if women aren't expect to do the same as they did in the past in relationships why should me be expected to do the same. It is the 21 century, there is this thing called equality. Women really wanted it, yet now they are back tracking because they don't want equality they just want the best parts of being a women and a man, and not the bad stuff that comes with it.
@nathanp97 "the problem is women aren't required to do what they did back in the day when men paid for dates"
What were women required to do?
Cook, clean, stay home with kids and be obedient and submissive. After all that stuff changed, somehow men still got stuck with all the same responsibilities. And before you say anything, no I don't want a woman who is/does all those things. Obviously, sharing the cooking and cleaning is important though, so she still has to be able to do some of it. The rest I don't really like.
People who "have a different opinion on it" are often those who put MGTOW with the incels, when they're not the same thing.
Or girls who are annoyed and scared to lost the power sex give them over men.
Overall, I understand the movement, even tho I couldn't be a part of it.
Also, I tend to notice those with a negative view of it tend to be either a) males who don't have much to lose, and b) females who say things like "where did all the good men go?" after they hit the wall.