What are your honest thoughts on MGTOW?

Question

The only MGTOW guys I’ve encountered both online and in real life have been complete jerks towards me, UNPROVOKED.

My honest thoughts... I don’t understand 😂
But I would like to because I’m just curious.
On the surface they just seem like depressed, bitter af souls who act like the world is coming to an end.

(I think?) They believe women run everything and it’s not fair and it’s causing problems for men that the world ignores. A lot of this has to do with dating and marriage. Some seem to prefer the days when everyone was forced to play into gender roles, a time when men were on top.

I SOMEWHAT agree but honestly... in my opinion it’s just the beautiful karma of life. Men were kings but now it’s the women’s turn. It may be unfair or unjust but that’s simply how life balances itself. At one point, men were being too extreme and damn near abusive. You can’t really expect the tables not to turn EVENTUALLY. It’s human nature. 
No need in complaining about it.

These MGTOW followers object to the sexual liberation of females because apparently it’s preventing guys from getting married...
Thing is, marriage is still an option. Be gay 😂
They believe women have it better in court cuz the rulings are usually in their favor.
My rebuttal: MEN developed the constitution and they make up the majority of judges, because women only take up about 23%, give or take. So... I think for the most part it’s just men turning against men and has little to do with women and feminism.

They have this idea that all women want is sex and rich husbands with ten feet long penises.
I agree there are women like that but honestly I have yet to be introduced to one 😂
I think average women just either want a good career or love no matter the form it may come in.

These men are upset cuz their old privileges have been stripped down and taken away.

But again, I could be wrong so enlighten me.

BlueCoyote · Accepted Answer

Amen.

I wanted to give a detailed answer to your question but you've already said everything I was going to say. I completely agree with you.

I especially agree with your point that it's actually a matter of men turning against men. The same can be seen in all kinds of gender issues that MGTOW babies don't like. For example: "Women expect me to pay for them on the first date *sob* *sob*". Okay. Let's see. WHO THE HELL came up with this DUMB idea that men should be the sole breadwinners and the boss of the household and the gentlemen? Uhhh I believe that was men! And now all these idiots cry because the ghosts of the past come to bite them in the ass. What a joke. Now, I get it, I also don't think paying for a woman should be a societal duty BUT contrary to some other men I don't go around mourning the long-gone days of the 1940s when men could do whatever the fuck they wanted and get away with it. I don't go around calling girls sluts who sleep with a lot of guys. Because I'm not a fucking hypocrite.

As for court trials: again, you make a great point but I think there's an even more important point here that you haven't mentioned yet. Men can in fact directly INFLUENCE how their trial is going to go. You see, judges aren't evil monsters (though MGTOWs claim that). They have rules based on which they make their decisions and judgments. In the case of custody trials, the idea is very simple: the children should go to the guardian (s) who spent a lot of time with them and took care of them over the years.
As it so happens, most conservative men in heterosexual marriages do NOT take care of their children because they think they're too good for that ("those kind of lowly tasks are for my wife") and because they'd rather advance their own career. I know more than enough people my age who were mainly raised by their mom - NOT because their parents were divorced but because their dad wanted to have fun in his career. Well, that's okay... you can do that. BUT you can't expect that a judge will then say: "okay, here, have custody for a child you never took interest in". That's just idiotic. It's like buying a house next to an airport and then complaining about the noise.
There's a very simple (feminist) solution to unfair custody trials and it's called equality in marriage. Work 40%-60% instead of 100%, spend time with your kids on a daily basis, cook lunch for them, walk them to school... do house chores. And the judges will 100% be fair to you.

100lbguy · Accepted Answer

It's normal and expected for that group to exist, when blacks had their equals rights in the 60s, kkk grew a lot, when gay people were allow to be gay, the homophobia speeches in churches grew (ironically), when atheism was growing 7 southern states try to ban atheist of working in the government. You see the pattern, when 1 group is now getting more equals terms, the one in the advantages will feel threatened and scared so they try things to oppress or oppose the disadvantage of getting equals terms.

LuvMeSomeBoys · Accepted Answer

Coming up with a slogan or acronym and slapping a # in front of it doesn’t make it a movement. Ask 50 people what it means, you’ll get 50 different answers. I think the original poster’s points are unfounded and ungrounded, but she’s entitled to her opinion. Truth is men going their own way is nothing new, and it doesn’t matter the reasons. It’s each man’s prerogative to choose how he wants to go through life, with or without a woman partner. It’s each woman’s prerogative to go it alone if she wants as well. It’s a choice that doesn’t affect anyone other the man making it.

lumos · Accepted Answer

Honestly I've never even met one irl, let alone got to talk to one face to face, so the only thoughts I have are based on things I've seen online. For people "going their own way" they sure care a whole lot about what people think of them, considering the ruckus they're making about "doing their own thing". You'd think that they didn't care and did whatever they wanted quietly instead of bitching about it to strangers online.

MlleCake · Accepted Answer

If they're going their own way, why aren't they gone yet?

ladsin · Answer

I don't know much about them. My understanding is that they're a bunch of men who are upset or dissatisfied with what they perceive to be the unjust treatment of men in relationships these days and as such they choose to abstain. That's fine, I don't think anyone should be forced to date anyone if they don't want to.

I don't understand how it becomes such an instrumental aspect of their life though. I don't even know how it'd come up in normal conversations. My guess is that, like with most any groups, the vocal minority portray a bad image for the entire movement. That said I again don't know much about it.

OlderAndWiser · Answer

Primarily, MGTOW means guys who are butt hurt beyond belief and who don't want to take responsibility for their own failures and shortcomings.

JimRSmith · Answer

I've never met a single one, in real life.  I'm not surprised you think they act like complete jerks towards you, I expect you think quite a lot of people do that.

Benedek38 · Answer

OK, let's see.

"On the surface they just seem like depressed, bitter af souls who act like the world is coming to an end."
Not all of them. You are probably talking abou the vocal extreme minority. Bitterness is a common trait though. Can't blame them for it - MGTOW is essentially disillusionment in women.

"(I think?) They believe women run everything and it’s not fair and it’s causing problems for men that the world ignores."
False. They don't believe women run everything (that would play into the feminist rhetoric of patriarchy, as actually MEN run almost everything), they believe the world is gynocentric - that the world, and most people in it will break their back backwards to accomodate women. This has been common especially in the last decade, but it has been around for 60-70 years, or even earlier.
I don't want to prove to you that the world is gynocentric, unless you ask me to, but think about this for a second.
If a man and a woman engage in a conflict in the middle of a group of women - the women will take their sister's side.
If a man and a woman engage in a conflict in the middle of a group of men - the men will protect the woman, and potentially beat up the man.
Men don't hold together as a group against women. Well, except for MGTOWS and other Red Pill groups.

"Some seem to prefer the days when everyone was forced to play into gender roles, a time when men were on top."
1) Some people in general, men or women, prefer the "good old days", or at least see some values in it that are missing nowadays. That's not a MGTOW specific thing, and in fact this is not part of the classic rhetoric of MGTOWs.
2) Men weren't on top, honey. The idea of classic gender roles is that different genders had different roles. Who is on top - a carpenter or a nurse? None, because they do different things. With classic gender roles, men earned the money while women looked after the household, the kids, the "campfire" if you will. And believe it or not, historically these housewives had incredible power in their homes over their husbands.
For reference I'd like to mention the expression "henpecked [husband]" - as in, the hen becks the rooster. It's an 18th century equivalent of "wuss". So once again, women were far from oppressed.

ChurchOfIron · Answer

I get where they're coming from, but I think they came to the wrong solution. Red Pill is a lot better. There's no need to swear women off or actively resent them. I think MGTOW guys are just too lazy to work on themselves, and too afraid and unsure of themselves.

Men weren't kings. They were coal miners, soldiers, railroad workers, construction workers, chimney sweepers, blacksmiths, day laborers, etc, etc. Even though women are entirely free to do these things today, do they? No, because that's hard, dangerous work. Well, those were mostly the kinds of jobs available to average people back then.

Life was fucking hard, back then, so most women weren't particularly interested in joining society in those ways, just like they're not, today. But yeah, it probably sucked for the 1% of women who could have become barristers. But, if we do view the men as kings, then I would say we should view the wives as queens.

But, many people's view on history is that women were "enslaved" by marriage. But, if that is true, men were "enslaved" by the expectation to labor and provide or go to war, would you not agree?

Men were "heads of the household", but they paid for that with blood, sweat, and tears. They were responsible for providing for their families, and being the head of the household was the cookie they were given to convince them to plow the fields under a hot sun for 12 hours a day. Likewise, women were responsible for raising and supporting their families, and the cookie they were given was the fruits of the man's labor.

The wife-battering brutes were not the rule, as they aren't today.

Both men and women had their role to play, and both suffered in that role, and both were *willing* to play that role. If there was slavery of gender roles, both men and women were forced to play their role.

Thinking of WWII, when random women gave 14 year old boys "white feathers of shame", because these kids didn't want to go back to the battlefield. That's not exactly privilege. It wasn't just men enforcing female roles. It was women enforcing male roles, as well.

Anyways, whatever you choose to believe about history is your right: I think Red Pill or PUA are much better options for men. And women. We're on the same team, ultimately. We all have risks. We all have advantages and disadvantages. Just flipping the table and saying, "I quit," isn't the best way to handle a game, even if you're losing. But I get their perspective. I think they lack self-improvement, tho

Celtero · Answer

They're probably jerks to you because they can smell the feminism on your rancid twat from the internet.

You know, it can be pretty frustrating being a man. The worst part? Biology compels you to want women above else, there is no choice, the single thing your mind will force you to think the most about is fucking women.

And that in of itself isn't that bad... but women... aren't that great these days. Many of them are like you, feminists. *vomit* Who think all men are oppressors who want women as their slaves and any hardship men endure is just retribution for their sins. Okay, sure, that's fair. I mean, I know I've participated in a lot of oppression in my 22 years of life as a straight white male.

There's about a bazillion reasons while feminists are awful human beings, but I can save that for another time.

Anyway... where was I... Oh yes, women! Many of them are fat sacks of shit, who can't seem to manage to get the fork out of their mouth, (average US woman weighs 160lbs.) The ones who aren't androgenous blobs usually have no substance to their character. Social media, Netflix... what else do they do? I dunno! Getting drunk or high once in a while?

They're promiscuous, which simply damages their ability to bond, hence why the marriage success rate with sluts is <30%. Like, whatever, sex is fun, but if I'm dick #64 to a girl why wouldn't I just resort to an escort at that point? Probably cheaper than a girlfriend, and they would actually care for your satisfaction to keep you coming back.

Yeah yeah... I know I seem bitter. But that's because I AM!!! There hasn't been a single positive woman in my life, EVER. Mom was an abusive alcoholic cunt, who invited her guy friends to noisily fuck under my room. She cheated on and divorced my dad, causing him to be an angry abusive wreck for the next 7 years. She'd cry to 13 year old me about how she was gonna sell the house, put down my dogs, and kill herself. She'd smoke cigs, then crawl into my bed on a school night, crying to me, getting snot in my hair, poking me with her cold hands and fingernails... She'd smash plates, lacerating her hands, getting blood everywhere.

My first crush that I deeply admired? She made up gossip that I was perverse and desperately wanted to stare at every girl's ass, even though I was prepubescent at that point.

As I came into adulthood I was looking forward to start dating. Alas, apparently I wasn't buff enough, not charismatic enough, not wealthy enough,...

englisc · Answer

I'm not one of them, and I don't agree with a lot of the things they say and believe, but I can understand it. I do think that you're also wrong about some parts of it too.

It's not about being angry at losing privileges or wanting to return to a time when men were on top. Many MGTOW started out as feminists, at least when they grew up, believing in equality. Most of them still believe in equality.

Their beef with feminism is that many of the laws and policies put in place by feminism are quite one-sided in favour of women. They especially want to avoid being fucked over in divorce court, being forced to pay ridiculous amounts of alimony, child support, losing their kids. Often when it comes to this, women point out that men make up the majority of judges and whatnot as you just did, which is true but that's not the point. It was feminism that encouraged that change in policy, it was women who supported feminism/these changes, and it's women who take advantage of these changes.

It's like giving somebody a gun and telling them that they can shoot the other person with it if they want to, they shoot the other person, and then blaming that on the person who gave them the gun - they could have chosen not to use it, but they did. That's where the anger towards women comes from there.

They're also tired of the double standards in dating. Sure, women suffer from these too however feminists are critical about this. Ask most people here about slut-shaming and they'll tell you that it's wrong, especially those who believe in equality. Yet those same people will expect a man to pay for the date. They'll complain about fascist beauty standards placed on women, meanwhile they have a list of expectations they have of men as long as their arm. Those men are angry that women have been freed from their traditional role while they avoid allowing men to do the same.

The stuff about all women being golddigging whores is of course nonsense. Not all women are feminists, not all are selfish assholes out to get men. Plenty of them aren't focused on a man's wealth. They think they understand women but they really don't.

So overall, their criticisms of feminism are correct and that's their main reason for going MGTOW. They just have some fucked up views about "all women".

Just_A_Guy2018 · Answer

MGTOW or Men going their own way, as in men who have stated and commit to never getting married. That is it, that is all a Mgtow is. A man who refuses to get married. A life long bachelor.

Mgtow is not a movement as some mistakenly stake. It is a philosophy, a way to live one's life. And that is it.

Get mad at it if you want to, it will do no good, insult it, again, water off a ducks back, shame it if that is the lame ass tactic you choose to use. All this does is show everyone more about you and where you are developmentally along your life's path.

Let's make this easy for everyone. There is only one golden rule if you would to being a Mgtow and that is very simple. You must never marry. That is it, other than that each and every man is free to live their life who they wish to. Each and every Mgtow is different and lives their life different than another. Some men are MRA's, some men are PUA's, some men are what is called Mgtow Monks who completely ignore women whenever and however possible. Zero or next to zero interaction with women. This is each and every man's choice as Mgtow is not a movement, as there is no leader. Mgtow is merely a collection of independent men online mainly, who refuse to get married for their own reasons. Some men who identify as Mgtow want nothing to do with women, that's fine, that is their choice. Some men refuse to let women use them for their utility vale, again, that's fine as it is their choice. Some men only interact with women for a pump and dump, as in Pick Up Artists and then move on. Again that is fine and their choice. Other men see how one sided relationship laws are, and consider being in a relationship with a woman the most stupid thing a man could ever do. Again that is fine and their choice. Other men choose to remain isolated from women, refuse to have sex with women, refuse to interact with women, have no desires towards women and just want to live a quiet peaceful life alone. Again, nothing wrong with that and it is their choice.

There are so many variations to the Mgtow philosophy simply due to each and every man being different.

One thing Feminism has done for men. Men are Free. Men are no longer responsible for women. Men no longer have to protect women, provide for women, as feminism has decreed that women are strong and independent now and do not need a man for anything. For the first time, men are free from those moronic hero, provider, protector roles. Men are FREE. And we are not coming back.

UrDadLesbian · Answer

First off, men join MGTOW because it speaks to them, men tend to be more disagreeable than women, and even nihilist (meaning if you don’t get what you want, you don’t play at all) so this could either be caused by having been in a bad relationship in which the woman was being a gold digger or something of the sort. Or they don’t want to play the game from the start because they’ve seen the statistics of marriage. Generally these guys (including myself, even though I’m not in MGTOW) like gender roles because we believe each sex was created or evolved to be best at certain tasks as scientifically it is said that gender roles have been the way they are for about 350 million years and that the best at each of their gender roles would survive (men hunt and lead whereas woman follow and raise children) it’s kind of of like specialization in capitalism, the person who is best at something is the one who does that something. It’s not karma or the natural order that is changing this, it’s unnatural. By the way that abuse statement is blown way out of proportion, something that most people weren’t taught is that there have been punishments throughout almost all societies for beatings, as I assume you are reffering to since this is based around relationships, and just so you know most men didn’t do this and most men now don’t do or agree with it.
I don’t necessarily agree with them objecting the sexual liberation of women because they are encouraged to “pump and dump” which is a part of modern culture that follows the supposed “sexual liberation of women”.
So, in a way, these men aren’t angry about their old “privileges” being stripped away, it’s the traditional way of life that they are angry about because the “old ways” were there to keep relationships balanced and happy.
Sometimes these men are just angry because they believe that women, in general, have unrealistic standards for men. I agree and disagree being that I understand that there are certain things that people are uncontrollably attracted too, but most guys aren’t rich and aren’t ever going to be and most guys aren’t six feet tall and we can’t control the size of our penis, contrary to popular belief, the penis is not a muscle.
At least this is how I see it.

Northern_star · Answer

i approached this phenomenon with the same attitude and being open minded.

i checked their most highlighted statements one by one and did my research, after a few weeks I myself have found their truth to be fully legit and real.

i wouldn't call myself or anyone mgtow, for its not a club, its rather a mindset, that takes a look at a part of the world (mostly roles, social dynamics of the two genders etc) and acknowledge it rationally, as it really is. even if thats in conflict with what the mass media, social programming or short termed interest of many people says.

Of course it generalizes based on numbers, but who said there are no exceptions of the rule? Throughout history generalization became a part of getting something to know AND played a big part in the survival of the specie..

If mgtow becomes a movement, its because of the well known cause and effect, i'd guess the cause is partly feminism, partly SOME modern liberal political views that defies biology and facts, in favour of an ideology.

Thats just my view.. shortened into only a few sentences, and i am just a simple, human, thinking person, like all of us, read about it, make ur own little research without any preassumption and judge afterwards.

MrOracle · Answer

I totally understand their concerns - and most of them are totally legit - but there are ways that men can work those situations and still get what they really want.

But most MGTOW men are simply unwilling to do the work or make the changes in their thinking and attitude that are needed to be successful - and since they won't do that, they can't be successful, so giving up on the whole game is logical.

The part that is false is when they say that they didn't have any other choice, or that they don't care about relationships anymore. If that was true, there would be no reason to associate with any group or movement - they would be too busy going their own way.

And the ones that are being jerks are obviously not happy going their own way - they really just gave up and are bitter about it - like a baseball player who refuses to go to batting practice, then can't ever get on base, so he quits playing entirely instead of working on his batting - and is bitter about it.

It might be the right choice for a few, but it's the cop-out choice for most.

WhitePanther88 · Answer

Well there's always people bitter about their life and unwilling to honestly look at the reason why and them take positive action to make their lives better. Much easier to scapegoat others.
Radical Feminists are the same. They say they can't get a good man because of a sexist patriarchal society teaches men to expect too much of them. They say they earn less because of a patriarchal gender pay gap despite their choosing weak degrees in gender studies, choosing poorer paid jobs, working less hours, not moving for a better job elsewhere and not asking for a raise. They say society is sexist even though they have more legal protections and are punished less harshly for similar crimes than men. These women get upset because they want to keep their old privledges and get special treatment on top of that.
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nathanp97 · Answer

First off I should state that their is a big difference between MRA and MGTOW. MGTOW tends to be not do great and I no less about them, so I'm going to focus on the MRA.

No one really believes women run everything. Men were never kings and most women were happy with their position, as it worked the best. Most women didn't want the right to vote, men got it for them. Men have never really been abusive and many risked their lives for their family (army?).

Guys and MGTOW are actually against marriage because they get screwed over the majority of the time. Men get screwed in divorces because they make more than the women. Why should men have to give up money to the wife who is often initiating the divorce who work and should be able to live on their own? Judges can't change the law, and feminists who say they are about equality don't actually do anything and go against men who argue to get rid of it.

Your point about high standards is a little exaggerated. What most men are getting at is the fact that women have fairly high standards and say it is good, but then bash men for saying they don't like fat women. -->

ObscuredBeyond · Answer

A lot of their wrath is misdirected. Yes, rotten women exist who cruelly take advantage of women. The real problem, however, is with our courts.

Judges who rule arbitrarily and are not held accountable for judicial misconduct can begin to think they're gods. And then, the focus becomes themselves rather than justice. Misandrist attitudes have crept into the system. Thus, men are ruled by fear more so than at any other point in the last 500 years.

Why redirect their anger? Because picking on a smaller woman who can't defend herself is easy. Standing up for yourself with an insane judge, even if done the right way, can get you contempt charges, as well as murdered in a jail cell.

It's okay to be chaste for a time and avoid commitment in the short term. Especially if you have my bad luck with choosing partners. Monastic living has benefits for body and mind. And you don't have to join an order to comprehend the lifestyle.

What makes MGTOW so rude, is the incurable soul pain of feeling like a defensive coward.

SkipStop · Answer

This has been asked and answered so many times here and there. Just search the site and you will probably find over a thousand answers. It's a group of men who spend an x amount of time working hard to support their wives and kids. But for some reason or no reason at all, the wife files for divorce and gets rewarded over 50% of everything he worked his butt off for. Imagine yourself working 60 hour shifts to support your family. Less than half of what you made you got to spend on yourself. Suddenly, your partner files for divorce, takes at least 50% of the money you earned for your family, your car, your house and even your kids. He gets what he wants and you get thrown onto the streets like a piece of garbage. After experiencing this, you would not want to follow the rules of society or culture and get married again. Why take the risk when all odds are against you? That's how the men in mgtow feel. In reality, I see them as their own worst enemy because leaving society does not help them that much. What they should be is MRA's (Men's Rights Activists). Because MRA's are trying to fix the corrupted society instead of running away from it.

Anonymous · Answer

The ones who aren't bitter to the point of kicking and screaming are simply disillusioned with relationships, and understand that the role expected of them is a fairly high bar to reach. So why bother? They talk about their movement, though, because they still need that emotional connection from SOMEWHERE. They can share their own life experiences with the community, and not be judged for it.

As for the idea of men not taking responsibility: are men required to provide and protect now, when plenty of white collar jobs exist and firearms exist (at least in America)? If they are, why? Women can both provide and protect, now. Women aren't weak and fragile. Why are there still biases in the courts? Shouldn't that be nonexistent?

Not taking responsibility... I think that couldn't be further from the truth. They see that the dating world is disadvantageous for them, and decide to take responsibility for their emotional health by abstaining, while providing each other emotional support.

I'm not gonna align myself with MGTOW, though, because I've got a reputation to keep. MGTOW is lumped in with incels, and that group is horrendous. I do acknowledge why they exist, and I understand the need for companionship that brings MGTOW men together. It's almost like they're human.

castratedwhiteguy · Answer

I'm a MGTOW and I'm not bitter, just practical. The men and women (mostly men) who found it necessary to trash Christianity and to overturn traditional gender rolls have made a mockery of the marriage vow to the point where it is now meaningless. In recent decades the exploding divorce rate has financially ruined so many men that a marriage commitment has become a very risky financial decision that fewer men are willing to risk getting into. With the wide spread availability of such things as internet porn, hot young escorts and prostitutes, in today's gender war climate it now makes little sense for a guy to promise life long fidelity to one women, knowing that she'll hit the wall in a few years and then probably turn against him sooner rather than later. It all comes down to dollars and cents, and marriage is a financial disaster waiting to happen

glenns · Answer

While I certainly am not a member of mgtow, I am in a state of shock and awe at the level of hypocrisy displayed by the female members here. I mean, isn't this what got feminist movts started? A group of unattractive, divorced (hubby cheated) and angry women engaging in bitch sessions? And declaring celibacy forthwith?
Yes, yes, yes! So where do the broads on this forum get off complaining about what accounts to the male equivalent of themselves? Could it be that they see themselves in these dissatisfied men? And, because they don't like themselves, they this come to this forum and complain Abbott how these guys are whiners? Complainers?
Yes, yes, and yes!
You bimbo's are guilty as charged!

The1Guy · Answer

The MGTOW movement has nothing to do with balance. Rather, it's a symptom of social disbalance. So is feminism though.

The men, who associate with the movement are those, who feel it's not worth the effort to adapt to the societal and economic preasure on men these days.

They weren't prepared for it in their upbringing or have become disillusioned due to negative experience.

That does not mean, that they do not want a normal family life, but they feel it is impossible to achieve this and society has cheated them.

I think it's important to feel sympathy for them and adress they're problems. Neither feminists, nor MGTOW are going to be happy by forfeiting their responsibilities to the opposite sex.

We need to find a harmonious way to rise above out differences and accept men and women for what they are, no more and no less, than each other's counterparts.

Men harmonise women and women harmonise men. Separating them in hatred is harmful for the harmony of society

NineBreaker · Answer

To the best of my understanding, MGTOW is a defeatist response to the challenges that face men in society and relationships (esp. with women). They are a type of men's rights activists who simply decided to completely forgo the dating/relationship norms and just exited the system. This is similar to separatism, and it also bad.

I'm all for advocating for men's rights. Men get harsher sentences in court for the same crimes, and often lose custody of their children during divorced mostly initiated by women. Not to mention men make up the majority of suicides, workplace deaths, and victims of violent crimes. Also, don't forget the draft.

Seeing yourself from the rest of society will not help them understand your struggles.

What are your honest thoughts on MGTOW?

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