Why do incels exist?

[Jaaanellie]

I’m going to be talking about male incels here because they’re far more common. I don’t understand how it happens. The way they speak is as if they’ve never actually talked to a girl. They want women but they also hate them? They blame girls for their short comings and try to generalise what every single women wants with made up pseudoscience.

Saying shit like “women evolutionarily like strong tall men” when that’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. I know heaps of girls, including myself, who date short men and guys who aren’t sporty. I personally like a nerd. Height doesn’t matter. It all comes down to personality. They don’t realise that it’s their personality holding them back. They treat women like shit and act like total red pill scumbags then wonder why women don’t want to associate with them? So dumb.

Girls shouldn’t be expected to put out. Women don’t want to be treated like shit and owned like property. Girls don’t want to be generalised because we’re all different.
Can someone explain please?

[MCheetah]

Feminism has told an entire generation of men they're sh*t and inferior for being shorter than six feet tall, lacking a six pack, and for not being millionaires by the time they're 24 and you're surprised incels exist? Most incels, like 99% of them, aren't even the violent, Eliot Roger kind. They're meek men who'd literally do anything to be loved by a woman, including go bankrupt or physically hurt themselves, and yet society will continue to kick victims when they're down, if they're male, while propping up the female equivalents of incels (feminists) despite being just as toxic towards the opposite gender.

You may be the 4% of women who are fine with dating a short guy (you said you're 6'2"/18 cm yourself), but most women aren't. Most women will only treat a guy well if he can "provide" for them. Women want a provider in a man, and if he can't "provide" for that woman, then many of them will see that man as low/no value and dismiss him.

But then again, you also implied on this post that you're gay as well, and if so, can't really speak on the behalf of heterosexual women, since you'd like girls who are generally none of the physical things women want in men (tall, buff, macho, brave, etc). You're also a giant and claimed you had "perfect genetics" and that you're super attractive-looking, so you're probably used to being the "Alpha" in the relationship anyway. If you ARE heterosexual and I'm wrong, then I apologize for the mistake. Otherwise, you can't judge from the perspective of a straight female since you'd would be attracted to femininity/womanly traits.

Also, the same women who claim they want men to voice their emotions and "stop being so stoic and macho" will call them an incel the second they actually voice their emotions. The flaw in your logic here is assuming incels just magically pop up out of nowhere and that they have no valid reasons to be incels. You don't seem to realize that women have probably treated them like sh*t their entire lives for things they had no control over, like their looks or height. You then double down and treat them even more like sh*t, while they're at their worst and most depressed and act all surprised when they become school shooters and/or commit suicide.

In short, society treats a woman badly and she can #MeToo her way into millions of dollars for it. Society treats a (n unattractive, depressed, lonely) man badly and they double down and call him an incel for it, and then pretend to not be the assholes in that situation. Society are the assholes, here.

And no, I don't sympathize with violent incels.

"Men suffer the most in society; women most affected."

[Jaaanellie]

Well firstly feminism is about equality not domination. Someone who says they hate men isn’t a feminist. You can’t really say that you hate feminism because that by definition means you think women shouldn’t be equal to men.

[MCheetah]

Feminism isn't whatever you want to claim it to be, and it is quite literally never been about "equality." I should know since I studied it extensively for my thesis back in college. Go look up the Seneca Falls Convention if 1848 and tell me where it mentions "equality" at.

Secondly, no one hates men (and women) more than feminists. This comes from leading feminists of second, third, and fourth wave.

[MCheetah]

Also, you never mentioned anything in response to what I said about society creating incels through abuse and neglect of men, and then doubling down their abuse towards them.

[Jaaanellie]

Feminists aren’t looking for men to provide for them. That’s the opposite of feminism. That’s the patriarchy. Women who are REAL feminists want equality so they can make their own money and care for themselves. So that’s a contradiction.

The type of women you’re talking about are the victims of internalised misogyny. From personal experience they usually come from dysfunctional pasts surrounding their relationships with there fathers. They want to follow the conservative mould of being submissive in the relationship but also have a lot of anger towards men. It’s a fucked up situation. With a lot of father on daughter violence there’s usually sexual and dominating undertones. Although they hate their dads they still have that association with him and providing for them. A need for him to love them. Later on it expresses itself sexually. Girls trying to find men with similar abusive qualities to their dads and putting in wayyy to much effort into pleasing him. It’s because deep down they felt they were never good enough to please their dad. A lottt of trauma expresses itself sexually.

However, those girls are unstable in general so it’s not the best idea to date them. Trust me I know. That type of trauma most of the leads to sex, alcohol, and drug addiction. So maybe don’t go trying to find long-term material at a bar.

[Jaaanellie]

The word incel has more connotations to a disdain for women and toxic male stereotypes. That’s why I said incel instead of virgin. I’ve been on incel forums to get an idea about what they are and in general they generalise and hate women.

[MCheetah]

If you say so... 🙄

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

[MCheetah]

"The word feminist has more connotations to a disdain for men and toxic female stereotypes. That’s why I said feminist instead of scorned woman. I’ve been on feminist forums to get an idea about what they are and in general they generalise and hate all men."

[Jaaanellie]

I am bisexual. So if you feel the issue is more with straight women then maybe try and date a bisexual girl? I’m not the alpha in any relationship. It’s a toxic assumption people make about me because of my height. I don’t believe that one person in a relationship should have more power than the other.

It’s not 4% of women who date shorter men. 8% of relationships have the woman as the taller person. That’s pretty good considering that the average man is taller than the average woman.

[MCheetah]

I'm not into lesbians, so no thanks. I'd only want a straight/heterosexual woman, as I'm not into getting cucked by a female, or "sharing" a partner Monday through Friday with other lesbians. Gay women can date gay women though; I don't have a problem with lesbians, but I'm not into dating one.

I'm not sure what your source is, but I read it was only 4% of straight women who are willing to down short men, as opposed to 23% of men who were open to dating women taller than them. Maybe your data is right though, but I'd have to look at it first.

citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/.../download

In any case, you're dodging my counterarguments and talking points, it seems. But okay then...

[Jaaanellie]

As for that statistic you sent I agree. Apart from the domestic violence. The study was brought to light by Guardian. When I looked at the website they cited it wasn’t reliable at all. It was a men’s rights activist group who also was saying that men should have the right to force women to get abortions. So yeah, extremists. They had no information on how they conducted the study or anything. So it’s highly likely that it was made up.

Regardless. A government study done by the UK government showed that women are more likely than men to be verbally abusive and neglectful which in legal terms is classed as domestic violence. Verbal abuse is a lot more common than physical abuse. However, men are wayyy more likely than women to be physically violent and are responsible for 90% of domestic violence cases that end in injury and fatality.

Doesn’t take much thinking to see what’s the biggest problem.

[MCheetah]

"However, men are wayyy more likely than women to be physically violent and are responsible for 90% of domestic violence cases that end in injury and fatality."

That is also factually wrong, but I'm done sending you links and evidence for you to ignore.

[Jaaanellie]

To conclude, if anything, feminism makes women feel that they can be the providers and be more dominant than they were a few years back. Empowering women takes a lot of stress away from men.

Girls who don’t constantly feel pressure to be dainty or submissive won’t seek out large rich males as much. If a girls okay with looking strong and dominant then she’ll be fine with a weaker shorter guy.

[Jaaanellie]

Welcome to the real world pussy? That’s really all I have to say. Women have had to deal with shit for hundreds of years. Men aren’t used to it. Equality brings the evening out of pain.

I’ve heard the blah blah blah war shit before. I’m talking about being belittled and losing advantages. It’s not that men had to do all the hard work, it’s that they had the opportunity to work. Women were baby factories judged solely on their appearance and domestic abilities. Neglect? You don’t deserve to be taken care of. Abuse? Welcome to the club. Women handle it better because we’re used to it. We don’t act out and kill people because a girl doesn’t like us back.

Pick your side aye. Wanna be a loser victim or big man alpha. I see a lot of misogynistic men afflicted by white male grievance wanting the best of both. You can’t be a poor little weakling needing empathy and care from women while also wanting feminism to end and men to remain dominant. 😂😂😂 It’s a contradiction. You want women to see you as big and strong while acting like an entitled self hating bitch. It’s like asking girls to play pretend. It makes you replaceable.

[Bluemax]

A woman I dated, who is 5'2", recently married a man who is her height. And she readily admitted a strong preference for dating tall men.

However, when there is analytic data available, we should look to that as being more accurate than personal anecdotes. And poll after poll after poll indicates that, in general and of course there are many exceptions, women tend to prefer tall men.
And people in general tend to prefer physically fit mates. Again, of course there are exceptions.

I know you don't like to generalize, asker, but without *some* generalizations wisdom becomes elusive.

That being said, I would agree that many incels online *over*generalize. I wholeheartedly agree that online incels have personalities that drive potential mates away (and I say mates, not women, because gay incels exist I'm sure). So they would do well to look to themselves as the source of their woes.

So what is to he done? Pretend for a moment someone you love grows up and seems like he is skating the edge of becoming an incel. It could be your own son, or a beloved nephew or beloved child of a close friend. What would you tell him?

I have some thoughts about that, but I'm curious to get your input, Jaaanellie.

[Jaaanellie]

My input is that you really have to analyse the studies you’re looking at. How large was the focus group? Are they all from the same culture or area? For example most Indian women grow up being taught they need a tall man thus seek one to please their family. What was the height of the girls who were in the study? Many tall girls get bullied for being tall so they want a taller man so they can feel small. Also many short women feel very vulnerable and are taught by their parents that men are meant to make her feel safe. Thus she will seek a tall man.

I’m very tall. 6 foot 2. I was raised to see tall as beautiful and that I’m lucky to be tall. So I’ve never been insecure about my height as a woman. I dated guys who were a lot shorter than me because I’m confident in my stature. However, another tall girl I knew who got bullied at school for being 6 foot 4 and would only date men taller than her because she would finally look small in comparison. She wasn’t ashamed of her height around him.

I had a friend and she is 4 foot 8. She’s very rambunctious and confident. Her strong personality deterred people from taking advantage of her and belittling her. She preferred to date men her height. Or at least under 5 foot 5. However, my other friend who was 5 foot got abused by men, belittled for being small, and was perused by guys who were attracted to her height because it makes her “submissive”. She was very quiet and had an introverted personality. She would only date men over 6 foot.

[Jaaanellie]

If you look at the abuse statistics and the average female height you can understand that as an average girls seek large men. Not because tall men are more attractive or because they’re aroused by their strength. It’s because it makes them feel more comfortable and a tall man is a confidence substitute. If, as a society, we stopped shaming tall girls, taking advantage of small girls, and stopped teaching young girls that they need a big strong man to keep them safe, then would the average women want a tall guy? Or would they not care?

Also if you again refer to the averages. Women want a hyper masculine man as a hookup. The typical aggro, tall, muscular, dominant dude. But choose to marry the opposite. Western women pick more caring, less masculine, and more sensitive husbands. It really shows that many of those stereotypical hot guys are just used as an in the moment confidence booster. Not long-term material.

[Bluemax]

Whatever their reasons, that doesn't change anything I said, poll after poll shows women prefer taller men.

As for who people hook up with and who they actually marry, many times people marry someone who they don't really find attractive *because* they can't attract someone they really want beyond a hook up so they settle for what they get.

As for your answer to filmguy93
"They reject women who they don’t find good looking"
That's true of men and women alike, not just incels. And just like you are free to reject any man for whatever reason, and no one should judge you for that, incels and everyone else on the planet are free to reject whomever for whatever reason without judgment. Where I have a problem with incel, and anyone else who does this, is getting angry at people for rejecting them. No one should ever do that.

Would your advice to incels be to get with someone "who they don't find good looking?" I believe that's terrible advice.

[Bluemax]

I've been with a woman I didn't find good looking. It was awful. I vowed never to do it again. I also vowed never to advise anyone to do it again.

Most people cannot control who they are physically attracted to, including people who are themselves physically attractive. Nor can they control the visceral reaction they have at being with someone they find physically unattractive. In my case, it was anguish and disgust.

How do you feel about being with someone you find ugly? If you're like most, it probably fills you with dread. Why should unattractive people feel different? The same evolutionary forces that make certain people unappealing to us are also at work in people who are themselves unappealing.

[Bluemax]

I'm starting to seriously doubt you are friends with any incels who have been that way for whole decades of their adult lives.

I have. Due to my brother's line of work, I've literally known hundreds of them. People who have been incels nearly 3 times longer than you have been alive. They are poised to go to their graves virgins. By the way, many of them are women. They don't fit any of your generalizations. by the way, for someone who claims not to like generalizations, you've made lots of them here.

[Bluemax]

My advice for people who for whatever reason cannot be attracted to someone in their league is to make themselves more attractive. For most people it's very possible. For those who can't do that, I freely admit I don't have a solution, because dating someone you can't possibly be attracted to isn't a solution.

[Agape93]

They can't get laid so instead of genuinely trying to better themselves, they blame and endorse our suffering. It's entitlement and lack of coping abilities.

[ODC2112]

If we stop at the more or less grotesque theories that come close to the incel, we could make the mistake of underestimating and trivializing the question. The phenomenon of involuntary celibacy is linked to social changes in recent decades.

Since the 1960s, everything has changed completely. If before women were looking for a guide, a man to follow. Now they want a mate who is at least on their level. This causes two phenomena. The first are the male incels and the second are the female incels (usually with cats or dogs in tow). Women in the case do not agree to adjust to being with a man they deem inferior in social status to theirs.

School bullying is endemic. Most incels are people who have been bullied in their lives. Bullying is a phenomenon that was previously rare. It becomes endemic from the mid-1970s onwards. It is an endemic evil in modern education systems. Bullying has a strong correlation with the collapse of the father figure in the family and society. I'm afraid ago I read how children raised in fatherless families, or with an absent / neutered father, had a greater propensity to become bullies and harass other children. The collapse of the family took place from the 70s onwards and from the 70s onwards there was an exponential growth of school bullying.

Society hyper sexualization also has a strong effect over the incel phenomena. Impression is that of being in a world where everyone has easy access to sex. A world where it is normal to cultivate intense and fleeting relationships, where everyone has a great time and has fun. Anyone excluded from this is de facto treated as a handicapped person. This conveys a strong sense of inadequacy. Those who cannot reach certain standards, often not even through their own fault, feel like a handicapped person. If he is analytical enough and creates a clear overview, he can end up becoming quite cynical and misanthropic, withdrawing into himself, and accumulating a grudge against society.

A company that also despises them, calling them "losers", mocking them for their lack of attractiveness. Up to where those who have difficulties with women would prefer to be tortured rather than admit it, even when the reality is so clear that denying it seems grotesque. The unattractive man is therefore caught between three fires, the frustration of the rejections received, the envy of those who are successful, and the shame of being considered a failure.

The absence of empathy towards men. If you are a man and you have a problem, solve it yourself. Nobody will ever help you do anything. If you are a man and you have problems, you usually get kicked in the mouth and it has been like that since you were a child. Often if you only complain of having problems you are excluded or laughed at and the first to have certain behaviours are women (except mom or some relatives).

[TonyV]

You sound like the exception but yes most girls are hung up on dating some tall guy.

I'm in a relationship now but honestly if I had to try dating again I'd probably lie more to women, I dont like that idea but they dont seem to like me for who I am so fuck it, I'll be what they want and ride it out as long as I could.

No girl ever hit on me, buy definition I was an Intel, I made efforts, tried apps and going to bars but I didn't know what to say, you learn it by doing it, and when no girls want to talk to you it can take forever to figure out how to be interesting and charismatic, pretty easy for a guy to get stuck in that rut.

Dating is just a game and like any game practice makes perfect well it's hard to practice when girls at bars and clubs kill the conversation asap to move along to someone else and apps dont learn you real quick either when you only get 1 or 2 matches a month that dont reply to messages, sure there's the 5 female incels that come back mo matter how many times you remove them, sorry I'm not interested in the girls 400 pounds with nothing to say or worst yet are sassy about their weight and tell me "if you have a problem with it keep on trucking"

Why do incels exist? Have you ever told a guy no when he asked to have sex? Sure that's your right but that is what makes incels.

It's no wonder girls like "bad guys" and liars, that's the only easy way to get girls.

I think it would be funny to lie about my horoscope to get with the dumb girls obsessed with them, and if I'm ever dating new people again I've learned that bringing up sex is a mood killer so I'll just assume any girl wants it just as much as me, not directly bring it up but if it dosent happen in 2 months I'm done with her.

[Jaaanellie]

Broken women like bad guys because they’re damaged themselves or were abused my a father figure as a child. “Bad” people get their way because they’re manipulative. Just like “bad girls” taking advantage of men as well. Guys with mommy issues tend to go for crazy chicks.

[Jaaanellie]

Incels come from an entitlement and sexual obsession? That’s pretty much what you’ve said. You don’t need sex all the time. A lot of girls don’t like to put out until they’re in a serious relationship. If you want a girl who does then she’s likely to cheat and then you’ll complain about your girlfriend cheating on you. I’ve never heard of a girl who puts out quickly without moving on quickly. Same with men.

[Jaaanellie]

Also saying you’ll dump a girl if she doesn’t have sex with you fast enough is apart of them problem.

[TonyV]

Must be a difference of gender views cause to me it can't be serious until we have sex, without sex it isn't serious. I'd rather we could just talk about sex openly but that just drives girls away so in reality me and I'm sure other men too just decide in our minds it happens by "x" time or I'm gone, then the girls are on here asking "why did he ghost me?" He ghosted you cause you did nothing to keep him around and where just wasting his time.

[Lionman95]

I think some guys became incels because they have made negative experiences talking and spending time with women. Other guys are insecure of their body and have problems with their self-confidence, they live life with the assumption that women won´t be interested in them anyways.
The problem is that we live in a world controlled by social media in which many guys make the experience that they feel overlooked.
Because though everybody says they are looking with a nice personality guys that are rather shy are less likely to be chosen because the extrovert guys often times are easier to talk to which raises their chances.
There are incels because there have always been guys around that feel like they have less of a chance to attract a woman. It´s not necessarily the case that these guys are bad looking or be a jerk. It´s enough that they are shy and are not good at starting a conversation.
There have always been guys that were born single and died single, these guys just have an enhancement and a communication system through the internet. They are just more obvious today.
I don´t know if being an incel is so much about treating women as property, I think most of those guys feel like women think they (incels) are ugly and are not wanted by anyone.

[RasberrySlushPuppy]

the funny thing that I've experienced in life is how quickly an immature feminist girl will invalidate comments made by her feminist role model the exact moment they realise they were wrong about needing to promote equality. Because now its heavily favoured towards women and caused issues in society that has millions of singles and divorcees. The words used were "she's weak" and yet the very girl said she deserves to be called a woman. she's far from it, she had no father she never understood what a father brings to the table, her own mother made false accusations against him to kick him out and take all his assets. That is our world today. Incels aren't a creation of their own doing, they are a consequence of the inequalities and stereotyping of the world they live in.

[Jaaanellie]

@RasberrySlushPuppy that story is exactly what my father says. It’s what most abusive men say. That’s why I don’t trust those stories. My dad span this story to my friends and family about how he’s with innocent victim in this feminist world. He had his children taken away. He wife took him to court and stole all his assets. That my mother was actually the abuser.

It’s all narcissistic bullshit.

I still have vivid dreams of him getting up to beat my 11 year old sister for telling him that it’s okay for people to be gay. Having to swear at him so he would beat me instead of her. Being thrown to ground and him stomping on my head. Kicking me in the stomach. A wine glass that got knocked over surrounding me like blood. Barely conscious I had enough energy to tell my sister to run. It was something out of a horror movie. We managed to escape the house but he hunted us. After spending 3 hours in the cold our mother found us. I was only 14. It would happen all the time. Progressively got more brutal until eventually my friend from school got my principal to call the cops. He’s now living as fugitive refusing to accept his actions. Lying to himself and everyone around him. He pulled me from my school as punishment.

My judge at the custody hearing told my mother that all abusive men use the same excuse.

[RasberrySlushPuppy]

That's a sad story to hear and tragic. I'm not suggesting all men are good. In fact I've actually met a manipulative guy I saw the surface of who he was and then found out his wife and kids left him and moved to a country where he can't legally get them. However the truth in my previous story was that the mother of this girl told her things rather than see with her own eyes. This girl I realised had been manipulated by the mom because the girl was a compulsive liar had no friends of her own as a young teen and then as a college girl her friends ditched her for being manipulative and also cheating on guys, like mother like daughter. I found out her dad actually was working on the docks for 6month periods and when he came home he found the mom cheating on him. But the mother had her daughter believe he threw her down the stairs whilst pregnant. The dad had actually left her and had no idea she was pregnant. He went back out to sea and came back when he was told he has a daughter, the girl having been fed lots of lies rejected him. This girl became a detective, it's quite easy to understand when someone's been told a load of lies they will pursue the truth. She lives away from the mother.

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, you are in New Zealand. There probably aren't many incels there. It is hard to explain the weirdness of American society.

There are so many hypocritical themes in American society and you have focused in on one of them.

Incels want to have sex with women so badly and hate them all at the same time. The mgtow movement is about just using women for sex. As though they actually have the ability to do that.

The issue is they lack self-confidence to approach, ask out, and date women. They want women to like them over some gestures they might make. And it is hard not to blame certain aspects of American society for this nonsense. Their belief is if they are nice, then women will be nice in return. . . meaning they will get some sex. There is some imagery in American society that encourages this notion. That making nice gestures, buying flowers, opening the door for women, or listening to a woman's problems gets them hot under the collar.

Of course, this is all nonsense. And when their affections are not returned over and over again, they become bitter. They start to despair. They start to hate.

That is the path of the incel.

And you can't pull them out of the hole they dig for themselves. They are convinced of their fate. They are convinced no woman will ever love them. They are convinced the whole world is against them. So they form little groups where they encourage and validate each other's insanity.

[Bluemax]

"Incels want to have sex with women so badly and hate them all at the same"
Puzzling, isn't it?

[RasberrySlushPuppy]

Our world is fucked because many can't afford to leave home anymore houses are expensive and so guys can't be independent. The fact is we are just as afraid of getting hurt as much as girls are. When we are alone with a girl, we think in our heads that interaction is just easy and smooth and we'll enjoy it but actually come to see that this girl has a mouth and can accuse us of assault rape say something to upset us however little it is, but we have to be the responsible ones because she will act like the victim, we realise she is entirely different in their mindframe and that is scary. We are lead to believe girls are the next best thing, but actually when reality hits us we come to feel disappointment "is that it wow?" You know when girls say "you werent the man i thought you were" well that's an excuse for not understanding that guys judged you before you judged them, maybe just maybe you did something wrong? Simps prefer to keep a distance behind a computer because they won't have to be alone with the girl and have to be the one to do everything, have you noticed that girl is making a tonne of effort but wait to get money? Why then when it comes to dating that mindframe is non existent. That sums it up. It's a girl's own stereotypical view of guys that are their own worst enemy, if you want a man you need to get your finger out of your ass. But if you dont, just stick to your predators abusers and users on tinder. Dont shame and name call men who choose not to be with women. Actually stop stereotyping and things will change massively for women.

[RasberrySlushPuppy]

[Jaaanellie]

Yeah obviously. I hate male gender stereotypes.

[RasberrySlushPuppy]

yeah i think its crushing for a guy to hear they have to be the providers, also do the right thing all the time even at times they are new to that experience because introverts have built up the same experiences as extroverts from an early age, thats wrong. I actually once was told by a girl infront of my male friend to bulk up a bit. My friend actually said immediately "no he doesn't, he looks good"
Another time i experienced something outrageous that caused the girl i was with to feel insecure inadequate and upset. Who did she blame? me. I realised that had I been purely selfish and focused on my own needs this girl would instead have been pleading with me. That was the moment i realised why guys turn cold-blooded. We lose our innocence as a direct consequence of a girl's actions.

[Jaaanellie]

Girls want to be providers too. The only girls who disagree with that are those who gold dig so they can spend money and not make it. Currently in my relationship I’m the provider and it’s all good. I believe both people should provide in their own way.

[Jaaanellie]

But what contradicts that whole argument is what I here coming out of a lot of incels mouths. A lot want women to be submissive yet get frustrated that they as men have to provide. Many want to see women as only sex objects but then tell onlyfans girls to “get a real job”. They hate that girls don’t have sex with them but then slut shame women for having sex. It doesn’t make sense.

[RasberrySlushPuppy]

I see what you mean that's a shame. To clarify possibly I think what some men mean is for her to be submissive in the bedroom and dominant outside.

[Jaaanellie]

As for your story. That’s horrible. She’s a shallow girl. However, I’m sure you know that it doesn’t mean half of the world’s population is also shallow.

I’ve had horrible experiences with men. I had an adhesive father, I’ve been raped, sexually harassed, and belittled/shamed by men. However, I love a lot of men. I love my fiancé, I love all my male friends, my grandfather, my uncles, and my male cousins. I don’t blame men for what happened to me I blame the people who did that to me.

I had a really bad experience with an incel. I was in a relationship with a guy at the time and I had this incel for a friend. I made it very clear what my boundaries were. He helped me a lot because I was a closeted bisexual in a hyper-conservative environment. It ended with him introducing me to drugs and pressuring me to do them whenever we hung out. He ended up sexually assaulting me while I was really high and bragging about how I was actually his girlfriend when I wasn’t. He would play this nice guy card but was actually a massive dick.

[Anonymous]

I have a brother who unfortunately fell into the incel pit and I can maybe speak from personal experience. Young men become incels because they often grow up under the confines of expected masculinity, and then come to terms with the fact that human relations involve empathy, compassion, interpersonal skills. They're not prepared for it, often fail at it, and sometimes don't even try because the prospect of approaching a girl is completely foreign to them.

It's also a self-fulfilling prophesy. When you believe these things, it leads to bitterness and resentment, and that just creates a feedback loop whereby you isolate people further. It really is a dangerous trap.

Some of it is also more innate and biological as well. Men are often very invested in seeking out sexual experiences, and the idea that women are more selective with sex and won't just sleep with anyone can sometimes lead to them thinking that "only the Chads" get laid.

It's a lot of things lol.

[FilmGuy93]

A lot of really horrible things happen when you mix entitlement, years of rejection, and an inability to accept that you might be wrong. Most of those guys have spent many years being emotionally rejected by absolutely every woman in their lives (usually that includes mom and any sisters, cousins.

Basically the recipe is years of rejection by women who... should care about the guy. So that first rejection is unacceptable and unwarranted, and because the rejections continue with other women, the guy's personal trauma has wired his brain in a way that make him automatically think that all women are rejecting him for the same reason that his mom/mother figure did.

[Jaaanellie]

That makes a lot of sense.

[FilmGuy93]

I’m glad I could help! The story of Incels is honestly really sad. Unfortunately
They take things way too far, but you can kind of see why they feel the way they do, to a certain extent

[Jaaanellie]

All I see are guys who expect to have some loyal attractive sexually actively woman without improving themselves which isn’t realistic. Girls down to fuck are likely to move on quickly. Attractive women don’t want a guy without zero personality and bad looks. They reject women who they don’t find good looking but then get mad when hot girls don’t want them. I’ve also noticed that they’ll obsess over one specific woman who clearly is not interested.

The incel I dealt with 2 years ago still has not let me go. He still randomly sends me weird aggressive messages.

[FilmGuy93]

Yikes... yeah it gets pretty weird.

[007kingifrit]

first off society is in an epidemic of loneliness. 20 year olds are having less sex than 70 year olds, the average person has lesss than 30% of the friends their parents do and 50% of 30 and under are living at home

... and you're response to this sexual epidemic was to... come up with a term to make fun of people who are lonely?

second, no female are far more likely to be alone nowadays, men enjoy casual sex more than women and can receive genuine emotional satisfaction from one night stands but women cannot do this

[Jaaanellie]

Incel and lonely aren’t the same thing. I’m talking about the incels who have an issue with women when women aren’t the problem. I don’t believe that 20 year olds have less sex than 70 year olds. That sounds like bs. 20 year olds grew up sexually liberated while 70 year olds grew up with conservative religious beliefs around sex. Women also lose their sex drive after menopause and they make up half of the 70 year old statistic.

Many women also do enjoy one night stands due to said sexual liberation. They aren’t ashamed any more. In fact, I know countless girls my age who have heaps of one night stands.

I’d say more women are reluctant to date men these days because there isn’t a pressure to marry and have someone provide for you anymore. So many girls are happy to be solo or be with a woman instead.

[007kingifrit]

yea they are synonyms. of course they have a problem with women. its the same thing.

... did you not know 70 year olds grew up in the "sexual revolution"? they had orgies for months on end without stopping at places like woodstock. you need to learn your history

your response to me is what you wish was true. no women do not enjoy sex as much as men do. its a well documented scientific fact women do not enjoy one night stands even though the feminists lie and say they do

[anylolone]

Can you try being honest, for 5sec?

A lot of men will date fat women, way more men like those than women who date short guys. Or tall women, or short women. Yet there's still the feminist fat acceptance movement.

Also strength and sportsy are different things, though they tend to correlate.

But yeah, most icels barely have ever talked to women their whole life, part because they barely want to, part because women and girls never wouldn't touch them with a 10ft poll unless to beat them with it. (and certainly a good chunk of men as well)

Basically, they exist for the same reason you do.

[RawIronhide]

Hey relax a little bit, you're kinda generalzing here as well. Not all incles can be defined using your description. Some guys just try and fail. I personally have had many opportunities to have casual relationships but am waiting for something more serious. However I don't consider myself an incel perhaps voluntarily celibit but everyone is different.

[Jaaanellie]

Sir that is a considered a voluntary celibate. I’m talking about the guys who are bitter toward women because they believe women are toxic for not sleeping with them. It’s not the fault of women. You can’t be rejected by every single girl. If they are they’re aiming a bit too high. You’ll notice a lot of these men feel entitled to very attractive girls while not being desirable themselves. Most very attractive women tend to be more on the superficial side so I’m not surprised they get rejected heaps.

[RawIronhide]

I'm not surprised they get rejected either but see, who are you to say they're aiming too high as if they have less of a right to persue a person because of their apperiance. It's not so, they don't deserve to be rejected and the "attractive" person doesn't nesseceily deserve better, however I agree that if you'd like to have better dating prospects it's a good aim to work on yourself.

[Jaaanellie]

A lot want the hot girls but don’t improve themselves. It’s just unrealistic.

[Jaaanellie]

I don’t necessarily think it’s just down to looks. I’m a personality girl myself. It’s like a sex obsession and they tend to obsess over a specific girl who clearly isn’t into them.

[RawIronhide]

I think you may be correct unfortunately. Everyone learns at there own pace.

[Rangers]

Because men are sick of being told they're worthless, not being listened to when they were abused as a kid, being laughed at when they say they're suicidal, and bullied by everyone around them. Some of them decide to hit back at society, but of course society is too narcissistic and drunk on power to see that it's their fault the person snapped and the people they killed probably deserved to die. Like these two people


https://youtu. be/Id9pd8zfQcs

[Rangers]

https://youtu.be/Id9pd8zfQcs

[Jaaanellie]

A lot of the victims of incel killings were completely innocent strangers. Their whole motive for killing women is because they won’t have sex with them. That’s not a decent motive.

[Rangers]

If you think it had anything to do with sex, you're part of the problem. That had nothing to do with it, the way they were abused, ostracized, bullied, and pushed to the breaking point is why they did what they did. No innocent people have ever been hurt in an incel related killing

[Jaaanellie]

Also being told that your worthless isn’t a male experience. Being ignored as an abuse victim isn’t a male thing. Being laughed at for being suicidal isn’t a male thing. Being bullied isn’t a male thing. It happens to girls everywhere and it happened to me.

I was told I was worthless because I wasn’t pretty enough. I was abused and made fun of for it. Girls on average are more likely to face body shaming, sexual violence, harassment, and eating disorders. So I don’t get how that’s an explanation for male grievance.

[Jaaanellie]

Uhhhh Elliot Rodger literally shot random people who he never met.

[Jaaanellie]

And it does have to do with sex. School shooters who got bullied are totally different. Incel literally means involuntary celibate. A celibate is someone who doesn’t have sex.

[Rangers]

He shot people he knew who wronged him daily for several years and pushed him further and further until he snapped and gave them the death they deserved before taking his own life. Just listening to their words alone does nothing to understand what's happening inside them, you have to dive into what those words mean and pay attention to what's happening in their life to understand why they did what they did.
As long as you keep deflecting blame by blaming the tools used, blaming him by his race, and allowing such horrible atrocities to be committed daily against anyone who is forcibly put into a mental institution (which he 100% would've if he'd reached out for help), the attacks will continue and people will get what they deserve for as long as they deny playing any role in what's happening.

[Jaaanellie]

No he literally shot people he didn’t know.

[Jaaanellie]

He was also a narcissist psycho who made no attempt to have friends or be nice. He was a racist. I’ve study his case for criminal psychology and I’ve watched his old YouTube videos.

[PoliteSpeaker]

TMDR. I didn't read because literally women complain about men and men complain about women. Women say all men aren't shit etc etc. People don't know or want to accept that they are the problem. And they are the problem even when the other people is a total dick. And if you don't understand why you better find out because the penalty for being ignorant is very costly.

[loveslongnails]

These are guys who've been rejected too many times for their liking and need to blame someone. Everyone gets rejected, some folks more than others, but these incels just let it get to them exponentially. Even an unattractive, small dick guy can get a girl if he has something "else" to offer, and I don't mean money.

[TheFlak38]

A woman who refuses to admit the truth about female hypergamy and irrational standards. Why am I not surprised? Yes, Im sure you're a unicorn. You date short men, you date dumb nerds, you date men who are scarred for life. We get it. You are special. You're just another unicorn. The world is full of unicorns nowadays.

[Djaay]

Its a choice in terms of being undesirable in they're own minds because of society and the way it reflects negatively in they're favor that they believe to be true. Incels aren't created from women. Although women harp the idea that incels are a direct formality because of them. Just another false parridym to insult and whim up some attention towards themselves.

[mzoggkellett]

This is true. Men become bitter because they deal with shallow woman. Really its their choice and its not right. Men just get fed up with Woman's bs. Not all woman but at least the ones they come in contact with. Men are clearly looking in the wrong places, chasing pleasure over virtue, and in a sense bring a lot of this on themselves. I don't like victim mentality. Men need a good, honest, strong and decent woman.

[Jaaanellie]

Yes thank you 🙏

[Anonymous]

Uv never been a man so u don’t really get it and u never will

but mainly it’s a problem of lack of socialization growing up which is common in the modern world. The trend towards hookups also does not benefit the bottom 80% of men. Used to be a woman for every man and a man for every women but now chad is fucking 100s and most of his girls are content to be his hookup rather than date someone their own league

[Anonymous]

Yeah I don't understand that either. Invels can easily become chads and dog women out.

They like women to much. They romanticize these women and worship the ground they walk on.

Fuck these hoes. Bro she a female she not even on the same level as you.

To manny dudes watch Disney channel romance

Get in shape get money and don't love these hoes.

[msc545]

All the guys that you ignore, mock, tease, lie to, friendzone, and reject have had that happen to them many times, and after a while, they become incels because no woman will have anything to do with them. Is that clear enough for you?

[Jaaanellie]

Okay well no one should be mocked or teased or lied to. But ignoring someone is a personal choice. Not everyone can be apart of your life. Friend zoning is completely fine. I feel like a lot guys take female friendships for granted. Shouldn’t they be happy a girl likes them enough to be friends with them? A lot of girls put guys into this “friend test” to get to know them more before deciding to date them. Rejecting someone is completely fine to. No one should be forced to be in a relationship.

I’ve been blamed before and even harassed for choosing not to date certain guys. Dudes being like “why would you play him like that” even though I clearly said I only wanted to be friends because I wasn’t attracted to him.

That’s were I get to my next point. A lot of guys shoot out of their league then complain that “no girls like them so fuck women”. When in reality there are some less attractive women with nice personalities who liked them. I’m so sick of this “no but I want her” bullshit. Guys feeling like they’re entitled to my time and body. It’s so disgusting.

Some guys will rather slut shame and obsess over an attractive girl than try to form a relationship with a girl who is interested in them but more average.

[msc545]

You obviously didn't take the "how men work" course, or if you did, you failed it. Victim blaming won't work in this case.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

They exist because some guys were not born naturally good looking or socially skilful. And they refuse to put on any effort into improving. So they bitch about it and find ways to twist reality in their minds so that everyone is to blame except them.

[Joker_]

To be an incel is defined as being involuntarily celibate, which is just another way of saying "to ooze ugliness" or "to be conventionally unattractive"

[Slim57]

@joker_ thank you

[Joker_]

@Slim57 you're welcome

[Anonymous]

"Girls don’t want to be generalised because we’re all different."

LMAO, you are such a hypocrite.

[Jaaanellie]

I literally said I was talking about male incels who hate women

[Opinion Owner]

Any feminist who complains about red pillers and incels is a hypocrite.

[Anonymous]

Probably because a lot of men are growing tired of having to be the ones to approach women

[Jaaanellie]

Girls do a lot of the approaching these days. With all my boyfriends and girlfriends I made the first move.

[Opinion Owner]

Are you implying that you are bisexual?

[Jaaanellie]

I am bisexual

[Opinion Owner]

It's still very rare for a woman to approach a guy

[Tstrbrainer]

Okay, but some of us exist due to societal pressures and our own personality traits.

[Slim57]

They don't. Any man can get sex at any time if they want it bad enough and have enough money.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Same reason why feminists exist.

[Hanmakev]

Because prostitution is illegal

[Jaaanellie]

Well it’s legal where I am and there’s still incels.

[Hanmakev]

Where you are?

[Jaaanellie]

New Zealand. We have heaps of brothels.

[Hanmakev]

Well they could always become rapist if they can’t afford prostitutes my point being that there’s no such thing as involuntary celibacy

[Bklynbadboy12]

I never realized these type of men really exist

[Jaaanellie]

They do 🤦‍♀️
I’ve dealt with them in person. Got abused by one. As an Instagram model I have them in my dms everyday.

[Bklynbadboy12]

Damn I'm so sorry you have to go through that I'd block them I won't tolerate any disrespect

[Anonymous]

Okay, Karen.

[RasberrySlushPuppy]

😂 love that

[Opinion Owner]

@RasberrySlushPuppy don't we all?

[Jaaanellie]

Dead meme. Jokes are meant to be funny. Unoriginal. Irrelevant to everything I said. How does it feel to still be living in 2019, took you a while to catch up. You’re the reason people think women aren’t funny.

[Opinion Owner]

Karen is pretty much alive, but okay, Karen.

[Jaaanellie]

You’re literally an unoriginal retard. You’re the reason people don’t think women are funny.

[Opinion Owner]

Men have laughed and men have liked my opinion, Karen.

[Jaaanellie]

Didn’t know we had a “pick me” girl here.

[Opinion Owner]

Did the manager give you that information, Karen?