Glad you asked. The answer is a bit more complicated than it seems.
First you have to start with answering this question: are you seeking a traditional, chivalrous relationship, where the man is the protector and provider, and you are the wife, mother, and home-maker and work to make his life easier - OR, are you seeking a modern "equality' relationship? The reason this is important is that these are opposite positions - you can't have both at once; you have to choose one or the other, and each package comes with advantages and disadvantages for you. What you do NOT get to do is to expect to get both sets of advantages, and avoid both sets of responsibilities. That's a nice fantasy, but it doesn't exist in the real world.
What it sounds like you want is a traditional relationship, where the man is in charge, and he is the provider. Nothing wrong with that, but men in that position likewise expect traditional women - meaning women who don't focus on a career but rather focus on being a mom and helping make his life easier, so that he can stay focused on being a successful earner for the family.
If you want equality, then you take all of the advantages AND disadvantages of that. Which means paying your own way on dates, and dating men who are around your own income level, rather than men who make more than you do. It means paying half of the rent and bills, and buying your own cars and your own health care and so on. It means paying for half of your vacations. But, you also get an equal say in things.
Again, you can certainly choose either path, but make no mistake: the men who make a lot of money are going to have lots of options with women, and most of them want traditional women - women who are happy to do the things that he can't do for himself - and if you don't want to be that way, then you shouldn't be surprised when those men don't want you. Sure, they'll bang you for a weekend or two, but you'll never get a commitment from them.
Your "male feminist" types who will be happy to let you have an equal say in relationships are probably going to have incomes similar to yours, and they won't be expecting to pay your way. They're happy you have a career because they need the financial help to get through life.
This is a general question that does not apply to my relationship.
I think the type of relationship is an important aspect to this question and glad you mentioned it. Unfortunately there are too many men today who think they can work at mcdonald’s then come home and sit on their asses and play games all day. But because of their gender, think they are entitled to traditional male privileges such as full sexual access, meals cooked for them, children birthed to them, and a clean home when they get home from work. Funny enough this is typically the mindset of broke men who have nothing to offer but will tell gold digger when a woman expresses she wants stability and not poverty. What are your thoughts on this?
*yell
"Unfortunately there are too many men today who think they can work at mcdonald’s then come home and sit on their asses and play games all day."
You aren't wrong - I've seen it myself. And I call such guys out on it too. I certainly don't expect women to get involved with boys like this (they aren't men). Most of them eventually grow up, though - it just takes longer than it should.
But there are plenty of men with solid blue-collar jobs (mechanics, construction, plumbing, HVAC, etc.) who have trouble attracting women because they don't have a college degree or they don't wear a tie to work. These men are hardly lazy, and most of them make quite good money, but there's a perception a lot of women (including a whole lot of very average women with $30-40k/year jobs) have that if you don't go to work in an office building in a suit and tie, then you are unworthy.
Those women chase the "high-value men", but they aren't the women those men want. Those guys might bang her because she's available, but she'll never be more than casual sex to those guys. There also aren't that many of those guys, and the women who will eventually get them will be the 9+ women who are young, all-natural, submissive, and want to be stay-at-home moms. With so many women in the work force, there are fewer and fewer men above them - and that's a big problem for women who always want their man to be a higher earner than she is. Most women aren't going to achieve that, especially if they refuse to consider blue-collar men.
that’s fair. and i think that’s definitely a pro in modern day society. women have the opportunity to make the money they want themselves and if they desire children, there are ways to have them to on her own. and there is always some desperate man who will beg her for sex if she wants to have sex. i think the value of men is decreasing every couple year for lots of women who want a high value lifestyle.
I should add that there IS one way that working at the Golden Arches can be a good job - provided you are the *franchise owner/operator*. Those people do work hard and do run a real business, and get a good monetary reward, but of course they own it.
"i think the value of men is decreasing every couple year for lots of women who want a high value lifestyle."
The problem is that most single women don't really have a high value lifestyle, and women also tend to have far more consumer debt and far less retirement savings, because they spend spend spend trying to have a high-value lifestyle that they haven't actually earned, and it catches up on them. Women also tend to find it harder than men do to work in middle age, which is why women's peak earnings years are around 35 while men's is around 50. Clearly children play a role in that too - especially for single mothers.
You'll notice that the vast majority of women who DO live a high lifestyle are married to wealthy men - it's the rare exception that this isn't the case. No doubt that Oprahs and Kardashians exist, but they are definitely NOT the norm.
of course we can add gender discrimination in regards to equal pay and such into that as well. but let’s not forget we are just not getting into a time where women are finally having control. this is a new concept. so i think looking at stats in the next decade or two will paint a better depiction that women who want to live a high value lifestyle do not need men to achieve that. that men are an accessory not a necessity.
*now
again life in the 2020s isn’t the same as life in the 1990s. better catch up to modern day life :) as i said men’s value is decreasing each year. everything men have boosted about having in the past is now accessible to everyone. i’m not someone chasing a high value life but for a modern day woman, you really don’t need a man to live a high value life. i mean look at the women on onlyfans who have made thousands and millions of dollars. you men use your amazing male income so women can get a check for virtually doing nothing. times are changing.
Oh, Asker writes that with the breezy assertion of someone who has yet to "hit the wall". Sorry, but some things are timeless, and aging, especially for women, is one of them.
and it’s funny you say that because all the women who are 35+ and single in my family (there aren’t a lot so not speaking for all) but they’re all living lavishly and take trips all the time. they can literally afford anything they want and just seem so happy. so yeah.
definitely exists with men too. sorry to burst your bubble but dad bobs, gray hairs, and wrinkles aren’t panty droppers. yes beauty goes age but she already did what she needed to do. i’ve seen so many women buy houses and start businesses with their only fans money. those things are timeless.
i’ve loved this conversation though and it has helped me think a ton. i feel like i’m talking to modern day politicians. politicians are like 60+ and so stuck in their ways based on what happened in “their time” but don’t seem to realize times are changing. this current world isn’t their world anymore. it’s the next generation and with that generation comes a new perspectives and change, the future is the future not the past. this is why we need to keep old people out of politics lol. they either get on board or they don’t.
you’re literally 51. my chances of being alive in 15 years is greater than yours. again this isn’t 1969. i suggest you get on bored with the times.
let’s hope so
"Unfortunately there are too many men today who think they can work at mcdonald’s then come home and sit on their asses and play games all day. But because of their gender, think they are entitled to traditional male privileges such as full sexual access, meals cooked for them, children birthed to them, and a clean home when they get home from work." You think those low life men who works in McDonalds actually get the right girlfriend for them? The girls you're talking about are not even forced to date those McDonalds employees. And they wouldn't complain if they choose modern men. You can tell through his job position so it's your choice. Girls however, it's really hard to tell if she's gonna be a wife material because it's not on paper where you can just tell. She can have a carrier sure but if she wants to be provided, she should also have time for her family. It's not an issue for men to be providers AKA being tradition but like what i said in my comment, "but for that to work well, she also have to be a traditional woman. If she don't like the idea of being a traditional woman then she don't have to look for a traditional man but a modern man. It's simple."
I feel like there's a few things missing from this whole debate.
Maybe it's a cultural thing, but men and even people have more value than in terms of utilitarian, transactional or materialistic things. I'm not denying that money , stability, ability to provide for a family is important, but there's certainly far more to life, and it ain't gonna provide happiness of itself.
Secondly, the question asker, as she coolly and contemptuously disregards the value of men, like they're something she's trod in, forgets that she's presumably in her early 20s, where the world is at her feet. Life and karma has a way of teaching you some very salutary lessons, if you're haughty and think you're better than other people.
@Asker
In 2022, Majority of modern young men are not looking for housewives. Go to any modern city, Most modern young men are college educated and are looking for women who can pull their own weight in the marriage. All my guy friends are looking for a woman who is educated, with a good job and can contribute to marriage. In fact, most of them don't see a long term future with a woman who doesn't have either of those things. I know a guy who once referred to a woman without a good job, as a woman with nothing to bring to the table. Housewives are no longer affordable by most men. Cost of living is rising and outpacing wage growth every year. Inflation is out of control. College costs has risen sharply over the past 15 years. Men are looking for a woman who can ease their burden of supporting a family, not looking for an extra child of a "wife" to support. If you have a housewife, its like supporting an additional 2 kids in terms of cost for food, clothes, shoes, makeup, eating out.
Often times the men on here who insist on housewives, CANNOT EVEN AFFORD HOUSEWIVES.
And don't listen to @MrOracle, he has a history of demeaning women over the internet. Once even told me that all women over 30 are infertile and need to use IVF to get pregnant. he's a famous woman shamer on here.
@shaysh87 "Often times the men on here who insist on housewives, CANNOT EVEN AFFORD HOUSEWIVES." How would you exactly know who can or who can't afford a housewife as you claim "often times"? You realize that those men who claim they want housewives specifically on this site doesn't really outweigh those average men over all who wants modern women? Yes there are still men who wants traditional women and can afford them and those guys claiming it here may be the ones who really do. So you think again before you assume on people here.
Also in addition to that, there are also many men who get sued for child support for children that isn't even his. Just telling you the other side of the story.
@Aiko_E_Lara
I actually have real life dating experience, unlike most guys on here who cannot get dates and just survive on rumors and what they see on TV.
I know from real life dating experience the vast majority of modern young men prefer an educated woman with a good job. Unless you live in a small country town in an all white , christian community where everyone is poor, traditional and attends church every Sunday. Women get married at 18 and end up with 8 kids by the time she is 30, this is likely the only place where you'll find plenty of housewives.
And just because you want a housewife, it doesn't mean you can afford one. But I can guarantee you that vast majority of modern young men aren't interested in housewives especially the ones who live in cities.
@shaysh87 Basing something on your experience is an anecdote and it doesn't really prove anything. You're still assuming on people you don't really know. So with your logic, it's easy for me to assume you're just lying about your experience because most girls here do. Now do you realize how you sound?
Secondly, i'm talking about this site specifically. If you wanna talking about the rest of society then yes there could be more modern men than the traditional ones but what i'm still saying is you don't know most people here. They don't even make up the average of the society and there you are assuming just basing on your experience no one actually see.
There are people who wants something but can't afford it but the truth is you can't exactly tell which is which. Also because there are also people who can afford it but still can't get it due to the lack of traditional women.
@Aiko_E_Lara
haha. the only reason why you don't think what I'm saying is true is because you don't have any real world dating experience. Anyone with dating experience knows what I'm saying is true. And I don't need to prove it to some loser with no life who lives under a rock. The typical guy on GAG, has no real dating experience, has no experience interacting with women, no female friends, unattractive looking, and can't attract any women. This is why all of you are so bitter and hate on women so much. If you had luck with women, you wouldn't be so bitter.
@shaysh87 I can say i actually do. And i also did have great observation. What I said is also just like girls lying about having a boyfriend because they just don't wanna date at all or they can't stay committed. But still, i'm really well aware using anecdotes like that doesn't really prove much because anyone can easily make stories like those typical girls here who say they don't need boyfriends but the translation is just basically saying "i'm too insecure or i'm not good enough" or some of them could just be "men are too privileged" bs which is why they get so bitter about men. And yeah just because one shared the other side of the story, they're already "bitter" but what does that make them starting a topic like that? You don't think they're bitter? Maybe for a hypocritical reason.
@Aiko_E_Lara
You look like a 12 yr old boy. Who the hell wants to date you?
@Aiko_E_Lara
90% of the guys on here are bitter guys who hate women cus they can’t get dates. Now how do you have dating experience if you can’t get dates , never interact with women.
If you think any woman would be excited to go on a date with you. You need a reality check. Just go look in the mirror
@shaysh87 You have no real statistics about it. You know, i can also say 90% of women lie so that they can get to decide what's in men's minds or how men feel. They also have Misandrous mindset generalizing guys. And also, who are you to be insulting anyone when you can't even prove anything at all? Which is why you don't get taken seriously. I would feel bad for your "boyfriend"
@Aiko_E_Lara
What makes you think you don’t lie?
You even lied about having a dating life. Who the hell would want to date a tranny looking 12 yr old?
So yeah if you wanna make assumptions on people, then i can make assumptions on you. Call me a liar, then I can too. So there's a solution if you don't like people assuming on you. How about you reflect? Unless you're just a big hypocrite.
@Aiko_E_Lara
Like I said only men with no dating lives who get rejected by women at every turn come into GAG. This is why 90% of you on here are so bitter angry and hate on women.
@shaysh87 So i ask you, how would you exactly know? You only gave your anecdotes just to cover up for your bitterness like how other women do it here. So with your logic, i can still say that's why 90% of women here are just so bitter so they judge men and generalize. Also because they can't get boyfriends. Just backfiring your own logic.
@Aiko_E_Lara
Of course you would question common knowledge. Because you can’t get dates. That’s why you hate women so much
And of course you would dogs in the question and just continue assuming because you cannot get dates so that is why you hate men so much.
* dodge the question
@Aiko_E_Lara
i can get dates cuz i don't look like you. sorry but you asked for it
Then i can say i can get dates because i'm not old and i don't act like you. You're not the only one who can brag here
@Aiko_E_Lara
i know you can't get dates. because if you could, you wouldn't be on here hating on women.
If you like to assume then i can too. So i know you couldn't get any dates because if you could, you wouldn't be here hating on men.
Because I’ve listened and I’ve watched how modern western females behave. I view them as duplicitous, and dishonest creatures. They have no respect for themselves or true men. The hypocrisy is real. They scream “ don’t objectify me , but you can see my butthole on only fans for 8.99 a month “ they fuck all kinds of dudes not realizing that males leaves a package of genitic material inside them. That they absorb and it becomes part of them. We live in a culture where if a man is unhappy it’s his problem. If a female is unhappy it’s the males problem too. They will use the court systems to enslave and steal a man’s life. If a man says anything he is demonized a hypergamous women is celebrated as a strong woman because she mistreats the man she is with. I have watched this throughout society so I made a decision a long time ago that would not be me. I don’t approach strange women I don’t speak to them , and I damn sure am not bringing one into my family , or hire one to work for me. So lots of young men young and old are not signing up. We are busy building our lives in peace. It’s going to get worse in the last ten years marriage has went down 51% good going females you were given equality and you’ve abused it so badly there’s an entire culture of men who hate women. Feminists borrowed the word misogyny from the Ancient Greek and made it come true today. Men just woke up one day and realized females hate them. So good luck finding a man to use. You may be able to find some dumb male who is going to leave you unfulfilled
That’s stupid. I don’t want to see anyones asshole that’s the point. I think it’s ridiculous. I’m not surprised you stopped reading people today have the attention span if a knat.
Wealthy men usually marry within their own social class. Same with highly educated men.
The main problem with this mindset is that working class women with low paying jobs, little savings, little skills, no investment etc. Think that, not only they can, but they are entitled to a man who earns a better income than themselves. They aren't.
You want to know one reason some rich people marry their own? Because they usually know their history and that their wealth isn't the product of love and a lucky marriage. Their great grandparents lived in poverty and loved and toleratrd each other's good and bad, worked with each other, and built the foundations for their children's success. Their children then, became wealthy, and it went up from there. Their position is usually a product of selflessness and sacrifice, not selfishness. And selfishness and unwilligness to sacrifice is what they usually sense in women who just want to jump on the bandwagon.
In short, marry your own men (your social class/education/skill/etc). Love them selflessly, encourage and help them and build a life with them.
If low income makes a man unfit to have children birthed to him, the main sign of a woman who is *not* fit to breed/survive/be a mother, is selfishness. If men don't have any intrinsic value, neither do women.
@MCheetah
Uh... what happened?
I wanted to say welcome.
No you don't understand this. Men don't care about the income of women at all. The reason why rich women marry rich men is because the women wouldn't want someone with lower income the men doesn't care infact he rather have more. That's supported by studies.
Mia-Wallace, always enjoy reading your posts here.
@Frauensindobjekte
If you take a look at data and what happens in real life, you would see that most people marry within their own race, socioeconomic class, culture and also same education level.
Poor uneducated men tend to not care as much about a woman's socioeconomic status or education. But prominent, educated, successful , rich men care more about these things. Take a look at the wives of modern presidents: michelle obama, hillary clinton, jill biden. All of these women are highly educated, successful, women with money. None work at mcdonalds on a minimum wage job cleaning bathrooms.
@backdoorman
Just like there are leagues for looks, there are also leagues for education and success. Its highly uncommon for a man with an ivy league education to go for a woman without an education.
Well... they do if they can't afford it. Most of men nowadays can't and it's not even their fault a lot of the times. The globalists totally changed our world. In the past a man could easily support an entire family with just his salary. Nowadays you often need two people working to achieve a similar lifestyle. Working is not a choice for a lot of women who end up having children a lot later in life because of it... sometimes too late. So while I think it's normal for women to want that in a man and men should aim to have a stable income if they're thinking about settling (and that's the only reason they should be showing interest in women), it's just not realistic to a lot of people. And men understandingly can get sensitive about it, about not able to provide and will in turn insult a woman calling her a "gold digger" to divert attention from their inability to provide. Basically, I think the way we are forced to live in this 21st century just doesn't match how men and women were wired to behave for the last couple thousands of years.
Opinion
122Opinion
I don't know of any guys who take issue with that. It only breeds a little resentment when the same woman who wants to be treated like a lady is also flexing about her career, how independent she is, and how she doesn't need a man.
You don't get it both ways. You're either a bad bitch who forges her own path, or you can expect men to pay for everything.
1. Because the very same women who want this *will shame* a man if he says he prefers a more attractive or more fertile woman (if he has family making on his mind). Men can have preferences too, you know.
2. Because the costs and risks (risk as another form of cost) of entering into a relationship have risen for men, sometimes dramatically, and yet the payoffs and rewards for men doing so have fallen, also sometimes dramatically. When something rewards less and pays off less, you get less of it.
3. Because it has become harder and harder for men (especially YOUNG men) to succeed economically in this world, as the infrastructure and manufacturing sectors of the modern world's economies have in relative terms *shrank* (sometimes even in absolute terms), while the human services sectors of the modern world's economies have grown dramatically. The former economic sectors favor men, but the latter sectors favor women, often quite lopsidedly. See my answer here for more details:
Is this a fundamental difference between men and women?.
so women are just supposed to share their resources and abilities for men who don’t provide anything because life sucks and life’s hard? that’s essentially what you’re saying lol. it’s like men are saying “give me all you have to offer while i provide the bare, sometimes below, minimum” and that’s just not realistic. that’s living a fantasy.
and yes no one said men couldn’t have preferences. that’s not the argument. i’m 19 and i’ll tell you now that if a man does not have financial stability or is at least working towards financial stability (since this is the case of many men i date due to age), i will not be interested. that mindset of wanting a provider does not just disappear for “more attractive or fertile women”. if anything, it increases more for this group of women as no woman wants to be with a man who’s a leech and wants to be given things with no plans to give back.
Well, you have entered the world of "hypergamy", where most of you young women (many say about 80%) are fanatically chasing after a relatively few select young men (many say about 20%), who, since they have all these women lusting after them, can easily use you and then toss you aside and don't have to settle down at all!
Meanwhile the still decent but not so successful young men you overlook become embittered, or they decide to "go their own way" for a while, improve themselves, and then try again when they and you are a bit older. Because when YOU are a bit older, you will find that your stunning looks and fertility are reaching an expiration date, while they have had time to improve their financial situations.
So sorry, young ladies, 80% of you cannot all claim the same upper 20% tier of young men. Most of you young ladies have two choices:
1. Settle for an older man, who might not be such a hunk anymore and who might make you a younger widow years down the road, but who will provide for you well, or
2. Settle for a younger man who is not in the top tier, but is in a perfectly decent 2nd tier, because let's face it, odds are you are in that tier too, or will be as your looks and fertility fade, or
3. Find an "unpolished diamond", a young man who at first glance is not so successful, but upon looking further actually has a lot of potential, if you just nurture him and support him and encourage him (because sadly most school and work environments NO LONGER do that for young men AT ALL and in fact take spiteful glee in suppressing them).
In other words, as an old video went (from the days when MTV was still actual bona fide Music Videos designed to sell music), "Baby, Kiss That Frog!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4Ah2dxTcWw
But sadly, so many young ladies are SO shallow and SO superficial they cannot be bothered to make that kind of effort.
Woops, I meant THREE choices. But then again, most of you can't be bothered to put in the work for #3, so for most of you it is in fact TWO choices.
lmao you’re implying i’m shallow when i’m option three (my boyfriend is not rich at all but has many goals which is why i love him), while i’m in university on the path of being a nurse anesthesiologist which make on average $200k a year in my home state of California. but with all that said, there is nothing wrong with me wanting financial stability especially with the path i’m on. again you men are living a fantasy if you think you can’t provide anything at all (or go half and half) but get everything you want. women are putting up with that especially in this day and age where women can make their own money. if you’re not providing and protecting, what is your value?
*aren't
OK, fair enough. If you truly DID choose Option #3, then you are a young goddess any young man would be lucky to have, and you deserve a societal medal of some kind. But do be aware that you are definitely an outlier on the frequency distribution scatterplot of women, or a tail on the curve of women.
But more and more, young men are looking at the hypergamy situation, concluding that "the juice is not worth the squeeze", and are deciding just to go their own way, do their own things, just provide for themselves, and not bother. And I can't blame them. Especially when they look at older men like me who got played by a treacherous lady or two, no make that several.
and that’s 100% valid. but i would hope these men who think it’s a scam just don’t involve themselves with women at all. the issue is these men want to have their cake and eat it too. and the harsh truth is all relationships (friendships included) are transactional in some shape of perform (example, i provide the jokes and you laugh which makes you feel good and makes me feel funny). you simply can not want to take without giving anything, and then be mad at a woman who says i won’t give to you unless you give to me. it’s just laughable.
It's not an issue for many men. It's only an issue when these women provide literally nothing of value in return. Which is why it's an issue nowadays.
Besides, it's also potentially an issue because so many women whine and bitch about not having "equality" (despite women have far more advantages and perks in every country in the Western world than men do), and then go around and say sh*t like this. As in "equality when it benefits me, traditionalism when it doesn't." The double-standard bullsh*t is what men have an issue with.
Either choose to become a "modern women" and pay for your own f*cking sh*t and stop thinking your pussy entitles you to a Black Platinum card from some man. Or be the traditionalist and know how to give head whenever a man wants it, and how to cook and clean. But you don't get both.
THAT is what men are f*cking fed up with: women being lazy entitled sacks of sh*t while thinking they're "strong independent divas and queens." Pick being liberal or conservative and f*cking STICK WITH IT.
Now there is a huge difference between a man with money and a man with a good solid income - One implies the man is rich the other implies he has a steady job - The women wanting men to pay for dates is something that shouldn't at all be accepted - We've been talking about feminism and Equality for 100 years now for what? Men and women have jobs so they both can pay and provide for themselves - a man without a job is a loser right? The only reason why women aren't regarded in the same manner is because men don't care enough about her money but in reality they're the same - I'm starting to think certain men enjoy Equality more than certain women themselves - and just sayin ever since I was 13(my first ever date) - not a single girl acted snobby quite the opposite they all made it clear they'll pay for what they ordered - and by the way I'll wholeheartedly pay for her when we're like 7 months together - I'll pay for her sometimes she'll pay for me sometimes because we actually know and care about each other - it's a good gesture because I care not a courtship to sleep with her or for her to think I owe her something just for showing up...
@Lolaaa53553373333 I'm actually going to delete my comments all knowing you have no idea how to delete yours and leave you with this one then dm some dudes just to let them see what you wrote right here and tell them you've been spamming everyone just because you're an ultra feminist on anti depressants and have your reputation tarnished forever - Now there are no typos that will save you and make no mistake about it - yes that's how you threaten somebody LLLLola...
@jaybee281 YOU'D NEVER
@jaybee281 😂😂😂😂😂 ohhh my god, that's called cheating mister, and since that you can't do what you said you were going to do without my help, then I declare that I won this time😀
@Lolaaa53553373333 Okayy now you already know I like to cheat - It's a given when going against me - then "you'd never do that to me ohhh please don't do this I have nothing else to say" my god😂😂😂that's like every character's last line before death - I don't know what kind of rulebook you're using but here on the mean threads of gag you must keep your wits at all times missy - Otherwise you get "manhandled" just like you got right now - You see even now I care about your safety
@jaybee281 mhm, so you're saying that you care about my safety but at the same time say that I was begging for mercy, I'm sorry honey but are you claiming that if I actually used my puppy eyes and "begged for mercy" you'd still kill me? Yeah right, maybe back when you didn't know how I looked, now I'd pull you in like a mermaid and you being the silly man that you are would be on your knees trying to help me, which is when I win, so on the mean threads of gag I do like to think I can handle it myself EASILY thank you😏💁🏻♀️
@jaybee281 AND YOU ANSWERED OTHER QUESTIONS AND IGNORED ME, or maybe what happened was that you had nothing to say because you know you'd lose which means that this time I win😊
Because most of these women don't actually want men with money for practical reasons like being able to provide for a family, or that he knows how to be responsible with making a living. Women usually want these men for superficial reasons.
Women who already have careers and are making good, solid income of their own are not concerned about a man having money for reasons of stability. It's because these women still want those men to spend his money on her, or so they can go on lavish, cliche trips that she wants. This is true because in any other area, these types of women will be quick to tell you they "don't need a man" and how they make their own money, up until using or having his money becomes an interest or priority for her.
Lower income women want men with money simply so that they don't have to work or do anything of their own. These women are the majority of users and are the worst out there. They're also the same ones on OnlyFans making a buck like that because they don't have any other skills to make bigger bucks and are too lazy to really try to work at higher success.
Very few women out there actually want men with money for any sincere reasons of stability or responsibility for raising a family.
From my experience, the average woman would gladly date the average joe with an apartment, car, able to afford to do basic things like paying for simple dates. The only time where a woman wouldn’t date a man is usually when he’s working a minimum wage job, he’s struggling to pay rent, lives with his mom in her basement, can’t afford to take her out on a basic dinner. The older the woman is, the more financially stable she is so the more that she would expect her man to be able to pay for his own living. Older women (late 20-30s) see a man who is struggling to pay for himself as an adult who is incapable of taking care of themself which is very unattractive. Younger women are more likely to be broke would be more open to date men who are also broke.
another thing that people need to realize is that people tend to Date, marry within their own socioeconomic status , marry within their own race / culture , level of education. The stereotypical story of a rich man sweeping a poor woman off her feet that you see in Hollywood movies is not something that commonly happens in reality
People who make decent money, save that money. Clearly you don't own a house and have no idea what utility bills or property taxes are. And who retires at 50 anyway, you stop working, you start dying. Oh much of a naive moron do you have to be to think that anybody with wealth doesn't understand what insulation and cost saving are?
Hey dipshit, you forgot to add utilities, car insurance, renters insurance, health insurance, gas and groceries. And a fucking moron like you would run a 12 grand light bill running space heaters with your windows open. I'm sorry that you're retarded, but people with money don't just throw it away. This is why I own a house and you still think in terms of rent.
@Ryfyle
Just because you can’t afford it , it doesn’t mean other people can’t either. I know of people who rent out hotel rooms 250 a night for 3 nights just to stay away from their roomAtes. Yet they still have plenty of money in their bank
Just cus you worry about money , it doesn’t mean other people always worry about it
@Ryfyle
I'm 26 and I'm actually working on my second bachelors degree. Its gonna be done within the next year. And upon 2 years after graduation, I am set to make 2500- 4000 in a week.
I would date a man who can afford his own apartment, not some broke guy who makes minimum wage. Because if I'm looking for a man to partner up with to raise kids, I'm looking for someone who can pull his own weight in the marriage. I can't be paying for everything while he's freeloading on my money. He doesn't need to be richer than me. But marriage is a partnership. I can't be working my ass off while he just stays home, play around , eat all day, watch movies, go shopping , spend all my money, taking it easy like its a vacation.
Financial conflicts are one of the most common top reasons for divorce.
@Ryfyle
[ Do you know what a mortgage is? Of course you don't because you clearly don't have your shit together. Get back to me when you're paying land taxes.]
If your house is 800,000. You can put 200,000 as down payment. Then take the remaining 600,000 mortgage for the rest of your life. And if you make six figures or close to six figures, you can very well pay it within the next 10-15 years or so
@Ryfyle
there's a reason why im investing into a college education. Actually I have two bachelors degrees. Besides my college education, I am learning how to fix cars so I can potentially start a business one day. I don't just sit home and whine about other people buying homes. I actually go out and work hard to make it happen.
The issue isn’t with her paying. The issue is she wants “equality” but also wants “privilege”. For a man being expected to perform his role and her not to perform hers isn’t acceptable. Besides this “foodie dates” are a thing. If you have no intention of pursuing a romantic partnership like you know he wants then you shouldn’t even be there. Also an issue is the fact that chivalry itself is sexism. You don’t expect a woman to hold the door, pay for dates, walk on the right side of the woman, etc…
That being said preferences are completely acceptable… until you complain about men’s preferences. We can’t prefer skinny or we’re fat shaming, a homemaker or we’re misogynists… let’s be completely fair here your getting the equality you wanted are you not?
Yo be clear. I was the gentleman whom did all them things before. I help ladies with flats, paid for my dates, held the door, most of that one sided shit. When holding the door I was yelled at years back so I stopped. I saw a story of a man whom got falsely accused of rape after helping with a flat tire… so I stopped helping strangers. I’ve grown to dislike women after the last few years of bullshit I’ve faced at their hands. You can’t complain because consequences come with every decision.
I like to understand where everyone is coming from, and guys who don't like to pay for first dates probably don't want to be used or don't want to be nice just for the sake of it, which I respect, I also have never let a guy pay for me on the first date or dates if we're trying but not really that close yet, it'd feel like I'm using them if I said no later which is really not nice, the fact of him paying for me on the first date by the end of the date won't at all affect my perception of him after the entire date, if that makes sense.
@jaybee281 ohhh shut up😂😂😂honestly the moment I saw you liked my reply and commented I knew there was a twist there, you can't just like what I say can you?
@lolaaa53553373333 what are you even talking about? honestly you just come up with random stuff to accuse me of things I haven't done and just try to look like you're the good guy in this story when actually you're not - Unlike you I do NOT see that someone liked my comment wholeheartedly then went and checked theie opinion solely in order to like them ans "tease" them about something - I would never do that - Honestly you should start being more like me
@jaybee281 First of all I didn't like your comment "wholeheartedly" with you and your fancy words, I only did it so I'd get a like back, second of all I would never want to be like you because for all your fancy words your text is full of typos to the point it's unreadable, also I'm as bored as you are so let's continue😊
@Frauensindobjekte He probably is, from what I heard his head isn't in the right place so I should go easy on him from now on (I actually don't believe any of that he's a friend)
@Frauensindobjekte Yes bro pretty much - I'm so fucked up on meth I'm reading your username as "frauensinobjekte" which would mean women are objects - I mean it's not like someone who's completely sane would believe such a thing until he sees a hot girl like lola here then suddenly girls are nice right? - yea it's definitely the meth
@lolaaa53553373333 actually you wouldn't believe this but he's the same idiot who replied on your comment when you were talking about dudes making everything sexual - I can't remember if he called you dumb or a bitch but for all I know there is a clear difference in reaction when the same lola speaks without a picture then she goes and puts a hot bikini pic - Suddenly he enjoys interrupting the conversation for your sake
@jaybee281 Ahhh I actually remember him, yes he had such a different energy when he didn't know how I looked like😂😂
@lolaaa53553373333 your look makes no difference whatsoever. I only reply to what you say.
I think it becomes an issue when you have women who try to shame men for what they want. I think every man here knows that women will chase money no matter what, and that's not the problem, the problem is that when a man states his preference he gets shamed or called all kinds of names for having those preferences, women chase money, and men chase beauty that's just how it is, but when a woman expresses what she likes its preference but when a man expresses what they want its insecurity. Also, men are not allowed the sexually objectify women but women are free to financially objectify men.
Since you mentioned the whole paying on the first date, men don't mind that, but we are in a reality where women want equality but also want the benefits of being a woman. They want to pick and choose when and where they get equality, and that's what's causing issues nowadays.
It's wrong when that's the "only" reason you want a man... Or also wrong when you expect it of men but not of yourself... There's nothing wrong with wanting a partner with money or a good solid income because you also have money or a good solid income... But expecting our thinking a man is obligated to provide for you is... If there's men that are okay being the sole provider, that's one thing... But it should be because that's what they want to do, not have to do..
And if a man pays for you in a date, why not treat him, you pay the next time🤷🏼♀️
The problem men have is how women define "having money" and "solid, good income."
When I was on the dating apps I came across plenty of profiles asking for a man to have a minimum income of something in the six figure range. Now I do understand it depends where you live, where I live the six figure range would easily put you in luxury lifestyle. Guys still dominate the labour force when it comes to manual labour, and when their 70k a year salary from honest work isn't good enough for a good portion of women, they're going to get a bit PO'd.
As for men getting uptight about "women wanting men to pay on dates," that's a product of women wanting to have their own jobs and money or as some people put it, their fair share of the pie. Y'all have your own money now, you have your share of the pie, you can have your share of the expenses as well.
The only way to answer that question is to ask yourself, "What do I have that I can offer to a wealthy man that's different from most women?"
Sex? He can get that anywhere. Beauty? With make up, plastic surgery, and lace front wigs available, anyone can achieve that beauty standard with enough time and patience. My boss bitch personality? Men in powerful positions or with stressful jobs don't want a 2nd boss at home unless they have a dominatrix kink.
What most men want is a wife. Not a maid/servant/pushover. Not an incubator. A woman who can be a loyal, trustworthy companion and stand by his side because nothing in life is guaranteed, not even his wealth.
It is a very well-known commonplace that there are Women who marry Men because they are loaded, then split, file for divorce and go for alimony/spousal support. This way they can still live the good life. These are the Women who are shysters and use to get what they want. I went through that with my Baby Mamma, Amber. She just wanted with me so she could "temporarily" live with me and try and get away with not working. This way I would pay for everything and she wouldn't have to have any responsibility.
Women (not talking about gold diggers here) choose a partner by looking in their income because it somewhat says how much responsible and hard worker he is (not talking about the case where he can't do anything about low income). But those who are really gold diggers will genuinely love their money more than the man and his hard work. They will want their partner to pay for every single thing and all that. But incase of those who aren't gold diggers and looking for a partner with high income want to ensure a secure future and that the man is responsible enough. She won't use his money unless she is house wife or something. She will be independent and will also pay for the date time to time and like pay for herself without saying her partner to pay for her. Vice versa for men too.
1. She values the money, not him. If he didn't have that money, she would be with someone else.
2. She won't stick with you during hard times. Very few people will ever make it through life without a couple rough patches, and if the guy loses his job, she won't be supportive. She will abandon him because her only loyalty is to the money.
3. If she wants him to pay for dates, she is no more than a prostitute looking to get paid (or for a free meal). Most of the time people only go on one date and realize that person isn't compatible with them. If the man pays, she just used him for a free meal. Plus it shows that she thinks he needs to pay her for her time (again, she is a prostitute if she thinks that way), but thinks his time isn't equally as valuable.
Why is men wanting a prenuptial agreement before marriage a problem for most women? Easy answer, most women are thieves and are after a man's money.
It's not, in fact the knowledge that a man must earn to be a viable option for a long-term relationship is what propelled men to better themselves and work so hard at their careers to be successful. Men earn for the same reason women obsess over clothes makeup etc, To be attractive to the opposite sex.
While it's common enough to be cleche that an attractive badboy thug will get laid more in than any ten good men, but that's often because good men aren't likely to asked out nearly as many women as the player. The player badboy that's always looking to get laid and doesn't care about women other than sex is not going to restrict himself worrying about her "feelings" because he doesn't care about them.
So if you're a good man you have a big disadvantage in the dating market and the only way to compete with the thug with no rules is to be twice as Good at everything, be richer, dress better, be better.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a financially secure man , so much more comes with that also , associations , a stable future , opportunities to expand your horizons , etc. etc. , if you go for some poor looser , this is how life will always remain. Present yourself well , make sure your diction is at its best , make sure you know the etiquette of a dinner party , always go for the individual with money.
And never even entertain an individual who wants to go " dutch " on dates , what an inadequate fool he would be , association is everything.
Because their expectations are sometimes very unrealistic. Some women are really inconsiderate of men who have to live on a budget, the reasons why he might need to budget, what could go wrong if he squanders the budget on her via some domino effect, and what it takes to have to work for a living.
And then you have the genuine blood suckers, who steal your credit cards and buy whatever they want, even after being flat out told no and why not. And God help the man if his job ever evaporates! She'll not only desert him, and plunder everything he has that's of value until he's on the street in a bankruptcy barrel as if everything his were somehow hers, but if she has kids, she'll teach them to hate the man that was almost their stepdad, simply for losing his job through no fault of his own!
These women belong beneath a steamroller. And can burn in Hell. It happened to a former classmate of mine in college. She destroyed him.
Women requiring that men have money is a vestige of traditional relationships. We live and date in so progressive an era that all aspects of traditional relationships should have been ousted. Nearly all men's benefits of this arrangement have been removed in pursuit of empowering women. Few of women's benefits have been challenged, none of them have been removed, some of them have been reinforced.
Men are less-willing to subsidize women for nothing at all. At a time when women are out-earning men, it seems ludicrously hypocritical to demand men foot the bill.
Sorry if this is harsh, but you have an inflated sense of your value. If I have to pay $50 an hour to hold your attention, your attention is overpriced. I'm not all that keen on spending $350 a day just to keep you around, especially when you have your own job, skills, time, and assets that are all for you.
The saying is money doesn't buy anything yet can buy most things. Still nobody seems to understand that down the line it ain't about money.
It's about devotion and commitment.
And to chase a fox which has few chickens in her mouth doesn't mean that the other fox ain't going to hunt too.
Money is boring and annoying topic. That's why when it's brought up it's looked down on to it.
Another thing is because if there is the money talk that means that person will sell always to the highest bidders.
But let's not forget that the sky has bottom and it hits hard down the way.
Now onto the topic imagine having nothing as a kid then you work hard day and night to amount something and a fox comes by and wants your chickens hell no that's not how this game works.
Well in todays world if you are wanting marriage and you are the one making more money, man or women... then if you get divorced you are the one that will end up paying alimony to the man.
So when ever I get serious with a women that expresses a desire to get married I become very interested if she has a career, what she earns and if she is finically stable and secure on her own.
I have dated women with good careers and incomes that got involved with the wrong guy. After marriage she find out he has all types of debts and terrible credit. They divorced and sense he had all the debt and low income she ended up having to par off some of his debt and provide alimony to him.
A divorced man myself, I pay alimony and it so unfair and shitty. I just don't get involved with any women that wants or expects marriage... but most the women I date now at 45 are divorced and have fair similar horror stories and don't want marriage either.
Probably two main reasons, the first, as some guys have said, is that they don't want to feel like their being used for their money alone, which is what this demand sounds like, especially when it comes with a minimum earning.
The second, very few people meet those requirements with businesses keeping wages low for the majority of their employees. I live in the UK, the most recent average full time salary is £31,285 per year, which is just shy of putting you in the top 50% of earners by wealth. Meaning if you want someone earning more than that (say £70k-80K), you're looking at an ever decreasing pool of people (25%) who are otherwise hardworking and could be great partners, but suffering due to lack of decent wages from employers.
Honestly that should be a requirement for EVERYONE. I don’t want to date someone who doesn’t have a job or isn’t at least trying to better themselves and get financially stable.
Im not trying to date someone who is BROKE and y’all shouldn’t be dating broke ass mfs either. that goes both ways, I’m not going to expect someone to take care of me and pay my bills when I’m capable of making my own money. I think relationships should be 50/50.
as for men having to pay for dates, I think that’s something that’s just more traditional.
Like yeah it’s traditional and “polite” for men to pay for dates but if you’re in a whole relationship, you can’t expect your partner to pay for you every single time. At least OFFER to go half
Real love is a woman loving a guy who being him... the type that loves him and wants to be with him rich or poor. A lot of young couples start out with little money and they have to live meagerly for a few years. A girl who loves a guy whether he is rich or whether he is poor is the heart any sane guy would hope to find.
Any woman who'd leave her guy if he lost his job and went through a season or two of struggle until he found his success again or any woman who'd like a guy but bail when she found out he wasn't rich enough for her is the type of woman you'd want to flee.
If all is well and you've got some girl who is into you... but you know that if the market crashed and if you got laid off and you took a hit... she'd be looking for some other guy and wouldn't stick with you until you got your success back... he should dump her anyway. She is no good.
From my (man's) perspective:
Because it means we are not attractive to a girl, but only our bank accounts.
Men are visual and they also would like to see women appreciate their body, not bank account.
For men, appreciating beauty is something different from wanting money since body is an integral part of the person and is inseparable while money can be separated from a person.
We feel that all we want is women herself (personality and body), while women do not care about our bodies (that is sad) and additionally needs wealth, as if we would be not enough for her. We feel unloved then.
I mean i do pay and work towards having a good income, yet i won't provide for just any woman, only ones I'm actually committed to.
Men are more defensive about this sort of thing in my judgement is because the gender roles we used to have, the feminists of the last few decades have sort of ruined it, via their obsession of demanding women have their cake and keep it. Women demanded equality, and that is your equality. You're a strong independent woman that has no obligation whatsoever to me on a date, therefore I have no obligation to you. You can pay for yourself.
If men are now supposed to accept and fall in love with women for who they are, even if they bring exactly nothing to the table, then it logically goes both ways. Hence; "i want equality and to not be treated like a sex object, yet i still want a success object wo doesn't take issue that's what i want in a man", isn't going to get you a lot of men that are judging you for your character.
There's nothing wrong with women wanting a man to have a steady income. The issue lays when women bounce from one man to another due to her potential future boyfriend having more money than her current boyfriend. The other issue is when women use a man's income as a yardstick to determine his character. As a corollary, it would be like a man ditching his current girlfriend who has 36 DDs for a woman who has 38 DDs.
As an aside, I worked with one woman years ago who based her love and the amount of love for a man based on his income, I checked her social media account months ago and she's 43, single, and no children.
It's not so much wanting it as it is demanding it or expecting it and basing your entire relationship around it. It makes YOU look cheap and easy and makes us realize that you only want us for our money. How would YOU feel if you were romantically involved with a guy only to find out that he's only interested in you as long as you have money to spend on him and, if, one day, you lose it all, he'll drop you like a bad habit and chase after another girl that's got more money than you?
I CERTAINLY don't want a plastic chick! You either love me for ME or get the fuck out! My ex-fiance didn't seem to understand that! After 10 years together, she started chasing another guy for his money!! She had PLENTY of her own and I CERTAINLY wasn't asking her for any of it!!
A solid income that is enough to support us both is a requirement for me. I workout, take care of my health and body, practice makeup and dress up. I make myself look beautiful which takes a lot of time, effort, and even money. I want a man who can take care of me financially, I make sure to remain healthy and attractive and I will cook and clean, all I want is stability though. Its really not too much to ask for.
Reminds me of a Marilyn Monroe quote. “Don’t you know that a man being rich is like a girl being pretty? You wouldn’t marry a girl just because she’s pretty, but my goodness doesn’t it help?”
Hey Side Eye Five head, maybe you should get some fucking perspective. Maybe I'm not a narcissist who thinks that she gods gift to this site and everybody should be awe of her dead-eyed fish face. And who's to talk about lazy when you can't be asked to hang a fucking mirror or get a job.
Those types of males are a joke though lol.
Crying about the women they want but can't get, its like the fox and the grapes. He gets angry mad because he can never reach it, so he calls it sour.
Its natural selection that women pick the ones that have reliable resources. Love and money plays equal amount of part in a relationship. Finances are one of the highest reasons for divorce.
Stability is the most important thing in a relationship and if can't be the provider and protector that she needs, he is of no use to her. Rather dig for gold than useless pebbles.
You're right in principal but this just makes women very unnatractive. Why would you ever want something serious when women want this. Makes no sense.
Oooo they are angry in these comments. This will be the only time I will replying to all of you low lives that has an issue with this, because its only the low lives that are crying about it.
A women brings whatever a man allows her to bring to the table. But the males with little resources and that are useless are the ones who keep asking these sort of questions.
If pussy is all she brings to you and you that is your problem, some men just want pussy however it seems thats what your mothers brought and it didn't work out for her.
If this makes women unattractive go for MEN that fit your standards (after all you have the problem with women, go take the penis you all love so much).
Women who dont want males like you just dont be with males like you because you are unworthy. They dont cry about it (unlike you males) they just get the men they want.
There are some legit golddiggers out there that make men confused about the difference between wanting a practical man who is secure and can take care of a family vs. wanting a man only for his money. Just like there are some women confused about a man who is attracted to their body and finds it healthy and capable of building a family vs. men who only want women for their bodies.
i 100% agree
Actually the true issue is if the woman don't really do her part. That's the real issue it's not about providing because a lot of men actually do like to provide for satisfaction of providing and appreciation from a traditional woman. Women wanting men to be the provider just simply means she wants a traditional man but for that to work put well, she also have to be a traditional woman. If she don't like the idea of being a traditional woman then she don't have to look for a traditional man but a modern man. It's simple.
Because they don't understand what we have to go through for a date or even day to day life financially... Our clothes cost much more, we are probably wearing makeup on a date (makeup isn't cheap) figuring ant used say $1?, if we got our hair done that can cost more than the date itself, manicures range from $15-$100, are our shoes open toed or are we expecting bedroom play? Pedicures are $50-120. How many spritzes to you really expect out of that tiny $50 bottle of perfume? Can we agree on $0.50/ spritz x3? He doesn't wanna play with a monkey, so we gotta shelve nose to toes, $1.
... It really does add up on our end and if he is a jerk (common) or no good in bed (very very common) then we really get no return on our investment. With me, if he isn't a jerk, he is at least guaranteed sex and "release" in that department.
Just admit you're a prostitute
Hahahaha
@RandomDude2111412 everyone has a price, if they say they don't they're a liar... Might not be money but there is always something...
Having relationships for free shit is what hoes do
@RandomDude2111412 everyone's a hoe, I'll own that.
True. I just wanted u to be honest.
Women are a financial risk for men that men aren't for women. I'm high-income and in my city I would pay $1100 a month in alimony if I were to divorce a woman and $3000 in child support even though I'm the better parent. The same way women hate men who see sex as the main thing, men hate women who see money as the main thing.
I run from any woman I see as a gold digger and it's done me well. I have co-workers who make $10,000 a month but pay close to $5000 of that in alimony and child support to some whore who they only fucked for a year and who won't let him see his kids.
Some guys think that women only want them for their money, reality is we do not want to be unstable and supporting them, when push comes to shove.
Sure there are some gold diggers but they are easy to spot.
Is it so wrong to want someone who will be stable and show they are responsible by at least having a job they've been at for awhile and not having 12 jobs a year cause they hate their boss or something.
That is not the issue though. As Mia-Wallace brilliantly pointed out, it's usually broke or working class women who think they're entitled to men earning six and seven figures. And these women thinking their vagina is all they need to be "entitled" to such men. In other words, these women bring nothing into a man's life, but act entitled all the same.
Successful men tend to choose successful women. Attractive women tend to choose attractive men. And so on. This usually goes without saying, but go on any dating app nowadays and you'll see ugly women in their late 20s and 30s with multiple kids from several fathers calling themselves "queens and divas" and sh*t, who have been hyped up by Oprah, Beyoncé, Steve Harvey, Tyler Perry movies, feminism, etc, into thinking they are are 9s who deserve to be with men who are 10s.
Almost no man expects a woman to wait on him, hand and foot, and any woman who's been with a bum or leech for a man only have themselves to blame for picking such losers. Yet we live in an age where women are told they "can do anything and everything" except pay for their own f*cking meals on a date and marry men on an equal or slightly lower social class, apparently. Like I said in my own answer, women who want "equality and modern feminism when it benefits them, and traditionalism when it doesn't." And honestly, too many women use the "I don't want to support a broke man" as an excuse to cover up this sh*tty behavior. Not saying you are, but it's a common cop-out that we've heard all too many times before. Usually from women earning less than $15 an hour.
@MCheetah Not me at all, I usually make more than guys. In I'm told by guys, dang I won't have a chance with you will I cause you make more than me right?
But I've been with guys that can't hold a job, bosses are always the problem. They have no concept of stability and are mooches. When they are the problem, all I really want is stability.
I guess you could say I've been on the other end of that, that some low income, unstable guys think they can get with me and take advantage of me. That I will carry them and support them, I've fell for it in the past, but now all I care about is stability. I don't care if he makes less or more than me, what I care about is that he is stable and been at a job for awhile. If its a new job but he was at his old one for years, that is okay too.
I'm very independent, but I see your point about those who cannot even take care of themselves wanting someone to take care of them, all because they are a woman with nothing to offer but that.
"I see your point about those who cannot even take care of themselves wanting someone to take care of them, all because they are a woman with nothing to offer but that."
Yeah. That's modern women in the dating world, in a nutshell, who also then complain when a man doesn't want that and says stupid excuses like "Women expect men to be a provider; get your bread up or cry about it" basically admitting they're parasites without an ounce of self-awareness about it. Just look at the thots on this page alone.
All this without even getting into how a man has to also be over six feet tall, have a perfect gym body with 5% body fat, have an ego the size of Jupiter, be perfect in all other categories, etc. ... All this BS for women who either don't want kids, or have kids from another man; the children being the unspoken reason a "man is supposed to be a provider" in the first place. All that success just so some thot can be a good digger or "raise another nigga's kids." And yet, few women can see the issue with all of this. Do you understand why some of us are fed up, at this point?
@MCheetah Sure do, its never been me or my family. I've always fully expected to be self sufficient so that if I never get married or if I do and he passes away or we get divorced I can still survive.
I've always thought of it as a partnership, both of you work and do the best you can. No excuses or free rides. I have a cousin right now who when she got married he had a great job, but he got fired and for the last two years he has sat around saying he can't find a job.
He is such a loser, why would anyone do that, male or female is beyond me? especially considering how many jobs there are right now. He is a mooch on her, living off her.
I get it why some guys are fed up and I understand that.
Nothing wrong with wanting a man who’s financially stable. But wanting to be with someone just for their money is wrong and that of course goes without saying.
Men who get offended by that just can’t provide and it speaks for their insecurities.
For me it isn't. In a relationship it's not about who brings in what as far as I'm concerned just as long as we are comfortable. As it happens I do earn a load more than her but people who spend their lives worrying about every penny are never happy.
We are both happy.. What else matters?
Those men who want women to have kids with them have no right to be upset about it. If they're upset then they're a parasite.
They're not men if they wanna just have office affairs, party, watch porn WHEREAS wife is bringing kids painfully, going through depressive hell, having side effects, raising kids+adult and also bringing home paycheck.
You can't have it both ways.
Yes. Even though I've developed a mentality where I like to pay for all my friends altogether. When it comes to individual women, I can't stand the idea of paying for them. Money itself is not the issue, I just can't reconcile with the notion that women care about money and things like that. They all say they care about these things, so I accept that it's real and that it exists, but I don't have those feelings at all and can't relate. So that's what I'm stuck on: How can I date someone and have a relationship with an alien that cares about these completely different things? How can I possibly relate to someone like that? I don't like it and I don't respect it.
It's not and once again you're turning into something that's our issue. Young women have unrealistic expectations for Young men. Some of y'all are asking for a guy with 6 figures while most people start out somewhere between 30 to 50 and gain wealth through the years. Men aren't even complaining. People like you are the ones who get mad or bitter.
For me, it's not a must, but a plus. And not because of his money that I plan to spend, but because of being attracted to his ambition, determination and discipline to achieve all that, especially if it wasn't easy. Unless it's dirty money, I find any man who has achieved it very intelligent, and intelligence is sexy.
Another plus is that we have a bigger safety net if it's the two of us. One of the benefits of living and building a life together.
It's not really that they want a man with a solid job. It's the extreme expectations. If they had been fine with a average income. And it was just the losers at the bottom that can't manage to keep a job or business running. That was the only people that was rejected. Now they only want millionaires while not bringing anything except way of draining that income. So it's the unaligned expectations that is looked down on.
To be honest women who want men with money are sometimes materialistic, sometimes they aren't.
The bigger picture is if stability is required both parties must equally contribute to such stability.
Neither part must feel like being used in any form of regards.
Men weren't created to be atms and women weren't created to objectified.
At the end of the day, people have free will and do whatever they want anyways.
In my personal self, I'm not materialistic, I'm not into high maintenance type women.
I like honest, kind, goal driven, loving women who see the full picture.
I'm not here to judge women who like exspensive things and stability.
But I will never date anyone who thinks that a man serves three purposes alone, warrior, pack mule and atm.
I'm person, i have feelings, intellect, a man who stands on principles and moral senses.
It depends on the woman. Because if she makes me feel like money is everything to her, than her wish for money is a problem.
If she has a solid income and expects her partner to be the same that´s a match for me.
Many guys fear that they are just used and loved by women as long as they are wealthy. That way they are loved us as long as they have money ("paypigs-style").
If that´s not your goal, I don´t see a problem in that.
Money should not be the value of loving someone. Love to me is far more important than whether she is rich, poor therefore I would hope they view that in the same way. Because if they don't, that's not my feeling and knowledge of love to me so not gonna work anyway.
Because that's saying your expectations of a partner exceed what you are willing to offer them.
You are establishing that a relationship with you is going to be unequal, in your favor.
Obviously, most people don't want a relationship like that.
how is a woman wanting their partner to have a solid income “unequal”? let’s think of traditional women roles: always be ready to have sex, have children, take care of children, clean house, cook for family, (and in today’s society) work a full time job on top of that.
and a man wants to complain that a partnership is unequal because he’s not doing his job of providing? how does that make any sense?
you are right. most people don’t want a relationship like that which is why women are not settling for broke men who can’t bring a solid income to the table.
And what value do you offer to the man until those 3 to 5 years later when you MAYBE decide to marry and have his children?
You expect him to pay on the first date so he can "prove" his ability to support you, do you then go to his home to suck him off, cook, clean and do his laundry to show you future prospects?
"you are right. most people don’t want a relationship like that which is why women are not settling for broke men who can’t bring a solid income to the table."
BUT- the other end of that traditional bargain was a "quid pro quo" (hopefully they still teach you youngsters Latin terminology and meanings, and not just "Woke" (sic) nonsense). And increasingly women will not uphold their end of the quid pro quo deal.
well like i said in another comment i’m currently in nursing school on track to become an RN in two years which makes super good money. will attend graduate school after that to be come a nurse anesthetist which makes $200k a year. i’m not rich now of course but i have two jobs. i pay for half of our dates, my boyfriend pays the other half. i’m planning a $200 getaway for him for valentine’s day. i don’t know what he’s doing for me or if he’s doing anything at all. we don’t have a home together but i would clean and wash clothes. i can’t cook but neither can he so we’d be learning lol. he has 100% sexual access anytime and anywhere he wants as i have a high sex drive and am always ready to go.
so I don't know i think i have a lot of value that i’m definitely showing him and providing. and he doesn’t even pay for 100% of the dates😂 because we’re young i am choosing to invest in his future and his potential. but bet your ass i won’t be investing too long if there isn’t some type of pay off within the next five years. then i’d just be a fool :)
In that case, good for you.
Your expectations do match with what you yourself contribute in your relationship.
You see, the problem is not just the men who have unfair expectations.
There is also a rising number of women who expect to date a man who already has his life made, and yet they can't even cook two eggs on the stove and their mommy still does their laundry and cleans their bedroom while they are out partying.
That is what men feel equally ripped off about these days.
that’s fair. in that case, men definitely should be upset as i would be upset in their position. both sides are warranted to feel upset if they are providing all of their resources and not getting anything in return or getting half ass effort.
There's nothing wrong with women wanting a man who earns a lot of money, as long as they are honest about it. Most women are not, and that's the problem. Women prioritize a man's earnings much higher than they admit. They dream of marring a rich guy, and that's fine, but just be fucking honest about it instead of denying it.
Why would it be wrong for a man to insist on the same thing, to have a woman who is financially secured before getting married? Men don't put a lot of importance on that even though women seem to care so much about money. It's sad really, we're not walking ATMs.
no one implied you were. the problem is many men want to be treated as the male of the household and want the advantages of being a traditional man (main advantage is a traditional woman). you can’t want that then not be a provider and protector.
if a man is not interested in being a traditional man (which is perfectly fine) then he should be equally okay with not having a traditional woman and all that usually brings (great sexual access, she cooks, she cleans, she has kids, she takes care of kids, she’s submissive, she’s non combative), etc
i know of no man nowadays that is in a relationship that isn't 50/50. Almost nobody has a "man of house" man works, woman dependant relationship anymore. And both people should be able to help each other as well as care for one another. Women just put so much emphasis and value on men's financial status. It's sad.
The part about having kids, that's an expectation of most young men because that's literally the reason why women were put on this earth, to further the species by having children. The rest, is more traditional, but having children is not, it's expected, if a woman doesn't even want to bring that to a marriage, why would a man ever marry at all? Literally nothing else matters.
i know of many traditional households and the funny thing is, this want for traditional is pushed by men. like i said, don’t ask for the advantages of a traditional woman if you don’t provide the advantages of a traditional man. if you’re for 50/50 relationships and make it clear that the values of traditional women is not a must for you, you won’t have any issues :)
men were put on this earth to procreate too. since the beginning of history and even in animal kingdoms, you see the female taking care of the children and the male hunting and protecting his far. so answer me this, what good woman especially with kids involved wants a broke man? is she supposed to take care of the kids and work too? what happens if she can’t work anymore. is your mcdonald’s income going to support the kids and all of the bills? if that’s what you want then what kind of man are you? even male animals know they need to do what they can to provide and protect their families.
and the same applies to men. if you can’t protect and provide for your family, who wants to marry you? you literally have no value besides providing sperm. and nowadays we can go to sperm banks to handle that.
Like I said, the only traditional thing that's expected, a given, is a woman having children. The rest most men have compromised on like taking care of children or household things, but having children is something only a woman can do, so if a guy gets married, it's the only major thing of importance that a woman brings. Other things can be gotten by a man outside of marriage, but having children is usually an expectation.
Please don't marry anybody with your attitude about men and worth
You seem to think that money and status is what value a man should have instead of being a good father and hard working provider. You think a man only brings sperm that apparently he isn't needed for raising a child. It's why we have such a f'd up society now, too many single women raising children alone.
actually i don’t think that at all. i value marriage and children so much that i refuse to have children out of wedlock. i want my kids to see their parents as husband and wife and i’m not into being a baby momma.
my point was, you’re saying biologically women are meant to birth christen. and biologically men are meant to provide sperm. instead of getting defensive, tell me what value does a man provide and why should a woman marry a man if he won’t provide and protect his family? i don’t think kids wanna grow up seeing their dads being a bum.
YOU LITERALLY SAID MEN DONT NEED TO BE PROVIDERS. you blatantly said this when you complained about women “emphasizing money” and saying men aren’t ATMs. then going on about how women are meant to give birth to children like men are entitled to a woman’s womb. if you really cared about providing for your family, you wouldn’t take offense to a woman wanting financial stability before she gets involved with you.
*children
What I'm saying is a man shouldn't be valued solely on what assets he can bring to a relationship, just like women shouldn't be valued by men simply for having a vagina, shouldn't be valued solely as a sexual partner. Women bring companionship and motherhood, men bring being a provider as well as being a good man, a person who can instill values and raise a family, be a companion to his wife. A woman looking at a man as a sperm donor with a wallet is simply not the kind of woman most men are looking for. There are things both sides bring that have nothing to do with sex organs or money.
literally no one said this wasn’t true. it’s very true. the question is why do guys get mad when a woman wants them to have a solid good income. i didn’t say be rich. i didn’t say he a millionaire. just a stable income. she can’t value your other assets and also not want you to be poor? just like most men would want their woman to have great assets but be sexually available? if that were the topic at hand, i bet you wouldn’t be commenting and complaining and probably agreeing that sex is important in a relationship. why isn’t it that same sentiment when a woman says i want to be with a man who’s financially stable and not broke so we’re not living in fucking poverty?
your response is exactly why i asked this question. getting upset for a woman wanting the bare minimum? what a world we live in.
Because they're insecure. Just ignore the men who get all uptight about it. There are always going to be people who get mad if your preferences exclude them. I think your preference is reasonable.
It's pretty pathetic don't you think? Makes me feel like women are beneath me. Sorry.
@Cherry234 lol what logic do you follow here?
Because it’s 2022 women wanted equality but now that a lot of them are getting it they don’t like many parts of this equality unless it benefits them. I don’t mind paying but if she expects me to pay straight out the gate that’s where it’s an issue. Too many women say we don’t need a man in our life, but when it comes to things like this then we want a man to pay.
It’s not an issue. I think it’s natural for girls to want successful and handsome men. It’s also natural for those very same men to want 10/10 women with banging bodies and fulfill all their sexual desires, because that’s what men want. If you aren’t a 10/10 girl, you will have a lot of competition for those successful men.
Because we can’t tell who likes me for being me and who wants me for my money.
A girl once paid for a first date before I got there as I was running late from work and that stuck with me forever, I immediately had massive respect for her and I respect her more than girls I dated for longer
I dress simple, and the number of girls who would start treating me differently once they see me show up in a fancy new BMW is astonishing.
Their attitude changes…
It gives me trust issues…
Because people don't like when you want them for things other than themselves. It makes them feel insecure that if they lose that aspect of themselves that the person in question will leave them.
It's no different to women having insecurities when their beauty falters as they get older. If your husband primary motive for wanting you was because you were hot and that is his main drive for being with you then you would feel insecure of him dropping you for a younger model.
For the same reason why some women (like this one in the link) call guys "perverts" for being attracted to physically attractive women in tight clothes. Neither wants to be seen as objects. Guys want her to be with us for us, not for our income or what we can provide.
Why are men so disgusting?
It's completely understandable that you don't want to be with a bum. But you shouldn't feel entitled to his money if you aren't married, that's the issue. I also would never let a woman pay for a date, considering I'm most likely the one who asked her to come on this date with me. You should still offer to pay though (at least for yourself) it's the polite thing to do.
this question isn’t about me, just a general question.
but i guess under your premise, men shouldn’t feel entitled to sex if he isn’t married to his partner.
Are you suggesting that women don't enjoy sex and only have sex to please their dude? Women also have sex for pleasure and the same way she's offering her body, the man is also offering his body. Your position is garbage.
Also, I wouldn't feel entitled to sex with any woman even if it she was my wife. I don't expect her to be in the mood everytime I want sex and she is allowed to say no.
no sex can be enjoyable for women though statistically not as enjoyable as the man. the point is, men want women for sexual access so why can’t women want a man for financial stability?
and considering that most sexual assault happens and coercion happens in committed relationships, obviously your view on entitled is not a common one.
It's kind of sad that women seem to believe that the only thing they have to offer a man is her body. I'm investing in my future, if a woman plans on being a part of that future, then she will benefit from it. Until we are married I am not going to financially support her. She can pay for her own car, phone, etc. That's not to say that I wouldn't help her out from time to time when she's struggling. I can also cook, clean, and do my own laundry. Don't expect someone to act like a wife/husband when you've only been dating for two years.
Dude we’re talking biologically. Yes biologically and traditionally woman’s purpose is to bare children. A man’s purpose is to provide and protect. I’m all with you when it comes to waiting for marriage for certain things. There’s no way in hell I’m having children or buying a house with someone aim not legally married to. But that’s not the question at hand. The question at hand is why do men get so uptight when women say she wants someone with a solid income. This doesn’t mean provide for me before marriage. But you already knew that.
I apologize if I misunderstood your post. I see a lot of post about women thinking a man should have to provide to a women he isn't married to. I don't have a problem with traditional gender roles.
no a man shouldn’t have to do that just like i 100% believe women need to stop having children without a ring on her finger beforehand. i value marriage a ton. my post was just a general statement.
My mom works. but my dad is the breadwinner. he makes more than her
what most men want, is just someone who is employed at least... and is willing to at least pay on occasion, or, a least offer to. Not offering to pay, makes you look like you expect us to be the ones paying, and it's WRONG TO EXPECT, ANYTHING
Most women wanting a guy making more than them, if not considered broke, is not a "solid good income"
Plus the other things women want, while providing very little basic stuff, what is already expected of a man also.
Men hate gold diggers, foody dates and women who try to scam them out of their money.
Asking about his money/job is as much of turn off for a guy as a guy asking how is your pussy doing.
If she is willing to do her part, whether it is raising kids or contributing with her income, it isn't an issue for most men. If she wants someone to pay for her to sit on the sofa and watch TV and eat bonbons all day, then screw her.
Personally i would only see it as an issue if the woman only wants it to be able to depend on it. If the woman has her own money its only fair to want the same for her man. Reciprocity in spoiling each other. If its all on the guy then of course its an issue.
Why do women get upset when men want a "physically attractive" woman?
It's the same reason for both. Women will say a man with a good income is insurance for a prosperous future. Well men can say the same thing about women's "physical attractiveness". Because it denotes good health. Good health is important if she's going to be the mother of your child.
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