Is there really no chance of friendship with this guy I like?

[Anonymous]

i went on a 1st date with this guy i've thought was cute for like forever. it was going soooo well, but when we got back to his apartment, he tried to hookup with me. i dont get with guys the first time i meet them, so i told him no. he was immediately taken aback but respected that. then he got into how he's not emotionally ready for any kind of relationship and that he's basically been having one night stands and ghosting girls afterwards for the past month. I think like 4 so far, and I'm the first who said no. i asked him why he was doing this and he said he didn't know, but that he needed closure from his ex girlfriend. YIKES. i asked him if we could be friends and maybe in the future try again and he seemed enthusiastic to do that. now i've asked him to hang out a few times, but he is ignoring it or saying he's busy. why wouldn't he want to be friends with me? maybe the answer is obvious, but i really thought he liked me as a person CUZ HE SAID THAT. He explained that he hasn't had platonic female relationships in a really long time and doesn't know how to differentiate flirting from friendship, but would be willing to try with me. again. WTF? I don't know the whole thing really messed me up since i just got out of a serious relationship myself and wasn't ready to just hookup with whoever. i just wish we could be friends cuz i genuinely thought he was fun and so sweet and we're from the same place, but maybe he was just acting like that in hopes of hooking up *cries* Anyways, just looking for some advice and some explanation. I'm so sad right now.

Updates

1 y

Update everyone - basically I asked him to hang out (go study together at college coffee shop), and he said the place looked "cool." (Not a yes or a no) So i literally texted back, "tf does that even mean lol" like i would to any of my friends. He didn't reply for like a day and half. Now, he just texted aplogizing for "not replying sooner" and that he's "been working on a huge paper thats due in a few days non stop."
Why would he apologize IF (like you all have told me) doesn't gaf about me?

Updates

1 y

Wait it was not clear but I asked him to hang out BEFORE i uploaded this question. He replied AFTER this was uploaded so I'm just left with an apology on my phone that I don't know what to do with.

[SteveSmith1985]

This guy sounds like an asshole! I'm sorry but holy shit. Why why why would you want to be friends with this guy in hopes of maybe starting something romantic should he be ready.

Imagine you HAD slept with him that first night? You would have been ghosted like the 4 other girls (who does that?).

This guy is not a good guy. Yes it's just sex he wanted. He was never looking for a friend. You're not going to sleep with him, so he's got no use for you otherwise. THAT's the kind of guy this is. That fits within everything else.

It also fits with this particular type of asshole, that he told you he likes you as a person. This guy will lie no problem to women. He does it all the time (he ghosted 4 different women, and is going to continue doing so). This guy doesn't give a fuck about you or the other women. Not as people.

This is so clearly a bad guy, Why do you think a guy like this would be any different with you, than he is with anyone else.



I don't know what to tell you. You dodged a bullet. Thank god this guy didn't hold-out for date 2 before telling you what kind of guy he is. Why are you not listening to what he's telling you here? I'm sorry you're sad, but... whenever you get back to sanity... you'll be glad. This dude is a piece of shit. I feel like you'd usually see that. I don't know what kind of spell this guy put on you... but he is not someone you want in your life. Definitely not someone you want to date. Jeeeeeeeeeeeezus.

[Asker]

literally i hear everything that you're saying and trust me I KNOW. its hard because im so attracted to him and he was so charming to me that its hard to just let that go, no matter how horrible he is. im not an idiot - i know what he wanted and he didn't get it. i just thought that we would be able to be friends since we got along so well. we go to college together but we also live in the same home city, so i thought that it would be nice to have someone to hang out with back home.
and you're right, i did dodge a bullet. thank you for all of this. its the slap of clarity i need.
im just even more confused now because in the span of this response, he texted me again apologizing for not responding/hanging out. he said he has a big assignment due in a few days and has been focused on that and dropping the ball on everything else.
what do you think about that? i literally don't understand this man or what he wants

[SteveSmith1985]

I am glad it was a slap of clarity. That was the intent. But I didn't put enough behind it (apparently). You seem like a nice girl. You seem like a smart girl. I believe you when you say you know what I'm seeing.

What are you doing? Girl. Common.

I have seen smart women walk off a cliff like this. I think that if you read what you just wrote a month ago, you would agree with me completely (and also want to shake some sense into yourself.)

You are saying alternately:

1. you hear what I'm saying. You KNOW

2. Its hard to let him go because he's so attractive and so charming

3. He's horrible

4. I'm not an idiot- he wants sex. I know

5. I just thought we would be friends since we got along so well and it would be nice to have someone to hang out with back home (find a guy who isn't a giant asshole. Nearly... any other guy would be a better choice.

6. You're right you did dodge a bullet. Thank you for this slap of clarity i needed it.

7. But he texted me just recently and apologized and said he had a big assignment due.

Girl. You're not an idiot right?

Then you are not thinking in your right mind. You have been charmed by a guy who charms and uses women. You know this for a fact.

You are not special to him. Why would you think you were special to him. He is only still talking to you because he hasn't fucked you yet. You are not special. You were supposed to be the 5th girl he fucked then ghosted. That is a clear, unarguable sign... that a guy is an asshole, but also that he charms, uses, then discards women. YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL

You do not want his friendship. You are lying to yourself if you really think that. You have hopes of moving from friendship to something more. You already said as much.

[SteveSmith1985]

Even if you need a friend, why the hell would this guy be a good choice?

This guy is a scumbag. He is not what he appears. Are you high? he knows how to charm the pants off of a girl, literally. Why would you think there's anything whatsoever sincere in anything he has ever said?

What do you think is going to happen. You become friends, date, "change him" and fall in love?

I want you to play out how you think this will go. You are going to end up only one place. Hurt, sad and feeling used and deceived. THAT is what this guy has to offer women, after he uses you like a cum-rag for a night with promises to call.

You need to give yourself a slap or something. You are smarter than this. You are not special to him. If you think he likes you, you are wrong. He knows how to make you think whatever he wants you to think.

I need you to come back to earth, and turn your brain back on.

I've been shaking my head the whole time, now my neck is sore. This is goddamn ridiculous.

[Asker]

steve smith. wow. let me tell you, i read that out loud for my friends and i and you shook us all. we're all in college right now and each of my friends have dealt with a guy like this and its actually ruining us. its so horrible how they act and we can't understand why they do it - why they think doing that to girls is okay? or maybe they know its not okay but it doesn't matter to them anyways? i just dont understand - if they could see how badly they hurt us and how much of an impact this has, i just feel like any sane person who's not a psychopath wouldn't do that.

and i guess yeah, a part of me does think we'd be friends then date and i'd change him to love me 😭 i guess i have some kind of complex that i'd be good enough to do that for a guy like this? like i could be special and be the exception because i didn't sleep with him? but as you have repeatedly told me, i am not lol.

i guess the one difference i feel about me versus the other women is that i told him no. and then after i said that, he starting dumping his whole life story and issues about women onto me. (we both smoked a lot of weed and he was also drunk, so i think that explains why he started freaking out).
when i asked him if he's ever talked like this with anyone before, he said "no never." then his FRIEND texted me the next day saying that he heard i "put him in his place" and that "he deserved it" so maybe i got through to him somehow?
regardless i think he should go to the school's therapy office. its free and he clearly needs it.

you keep saying that he knows exactly what to say to manipulate me, but i honestly just thought he was dumb and couldn't really think that far ahead 😭 he clearly has the emotional intelligence of a 12 year old boy and he's 21.

[Asker]

anyways, i really appreciate your help on all of this. you don't owe me anything yet you're giving me advice i fear no one else around me would give so thank you for that. the guys in college SUCKKK and none of them would be telling me what you are right now.

[SteveSmith1985]

I only started reading, and you'll get a full reply soon. But unless the tone of your reply changes partway... THANK GOD YOU HEARD ME!!! I am so glad to hear that. And that you read it to your friends! That's so good. Now, will read and reply to content...

[SteveSmith1985]

When I was younger (age 13 up), I always had great friends. At different periods of my life, some of the people I had been closest to were women/girls.

"each of my friends have dealt with a guy like this and its actually ruining us."

Yes, my close friends dealt with guys like this. It lead me to get good at spotting a bad guy. It was in hopes of saving them the emotional toll an asshole guy can take, if you let them into your life (and heart).

Since I'm a guy, and also got the female perspective. Friends would talk to me, in minute detail about exactly was said and done between her and some guy... I found myself really good at understanding guys behavior and motives with girls, (and better than most with girl's behavior).

I stumbled on GAG in my 30's... to many situations like yours. Where a nice girl is getting involved (or already is involved) with a guy who I can see is clearly terrible and will for sure cause this stranger asking a question pain. So even though I don't know them, I really hate seeing this happen to anyone. *(there's more coming)*

[SteveSmith1985]

" its so horrible how they act and we can't understand why they do it - why they think doing that to girls is okay? or maybe they know its not okay but it doesn't matter to them anyways? "

I have been asking myself this exact question since I was a kid. I wonder this all the time. I also wonder if I would be like this too, if I didn't have good female friends who I was very close with. I think that's the best thing for teenagers and young adults. Female friends who you actually know and care about who can show you the female side.

I have come to the uneasy concussion that most guys don't understand completely (not at all actually) how deeply they are hurting someone. But many guys (this guy especially) also just don't care.

I don't understand it either, but I've often thought there was something of the psychopath in the way that many guys act when it comes to women. That's because they aren't able to see women as people in their own right. They exist IN RELATION to them. This is a great example.

You would be devistated if he slept with you and ghosted you. Of course you would. The 4 girls who are currently feeling exactly that devistation.

It takes a real particularily uncaring type of asshole to not care that he's hurting them. But I'll point out that you also don't care.

(I mean you're not thinking about it. It's unfortunate, but what can you do? Not "this guys a fucking psychopath")

**(oh there's still more coming. This is one of the nicest and most insightful things anyone has ever written me back. I've got lots to say)**

[SteveSmith1985]

"and i guess yeah, a part of me does think we'd be friends then date and i'd change him to love me i guess i have some kind of complex that i'd be good enough to do that for a guy like this?"

This is something that I see all the time. ALL the time. You are not unusual at all for thinking this. I do not understand it. I have often wondered myself if this is some sort of complex... and maybe it is. But it's very normal.

There is something in women's DNA that makes them susceptible to this:

"I can change/save him because I connect with him in a special way that he's never experienced"

I've seen it ten thousand times. It can be something that's not smart, but not dangerous (trying to change a lazy stoner into a better guy).

But usually it's dangerous. It's the worse when the guy has the potential or history of being abusive. The most common version is yours... where you're in danger of devastating, undeserved pain and feeling used.

So if "I can change/save him because I connect with him in a special way that he's never experienced" is common; Maybe THE most common mistaken thinking that makes me wonder if it's a complex is:

"I'm different because I didn't sleep with him"

*****OK I just saw your update. You're a fucking idiot. If I'm still around, feel free to get in touch when he's finished with you. I won't even say I told you so. Honestly. I was so happy I got through to you. I was just thinking how smart you were in how insightful many of the things you wrote me were. Literally 30 minutes later, and you're inviting him to hang out. You are one of the dumbest people I have ever met. THat's because you know exactly what your walking into. You know full well that this is stupid and will get you hurt. That's inexcusable. You do understand, but are doing it anyway. I guess my reply finishes here. This is fucked!

[Asker]

Um literally no? I asked him to hang out BEFORE i even asked this question in the first place. He just responded yesterday AFTER i asked this question.
Like? no where did i say i was going to hang out with him. i'm actually considering GHOSTING him?

[SteveSmith1985]

Thank fucking god. I'm sorry. I'm so glad to be wrong. I was just btching about you. To more than one person. Thank goodness you're anonymous huh. I was so goddamn frustrated. Soooo frustrated. But only because I was so touched by what you last wrote me, And... Obviously I didn't notice (or forgot I noticed) your update. I'm sorry, that must've been confusing as hell.

I scrolled up to quote something else you said to comment on it, and THAT's when I noticed the update.

Thank you for replying and letting me know I fucked up. I've never been so happy to be wrong. But I am sorry

[Asker]

I hear what you're saying - genuinely i do. As much as it logically all makes sense, its hard to get your heart to feel that way. If my friend was in this situation, I'd be screaming at her to because it JUST. MAKES. SENSE. Right?
I always like to say its a matter of head and heart - i can understand and make a decision with my head, but that doesn't always mean that the heart follows, and for me, I'm someone who really leads with their heart and gets hurt all the time.
That being said, I'm cutting it off. I dont know what this guy's deal is exactly with me, (I know you think he doesn't care about friendship at all, but I'm not entirely sure), but it doesn't matter. This isn't worth my time or stress and I don't like what its turning me into.
I dont want to be this type of girl - I have too much self respect for myself to be that. So to your reply, I am NOT a fucking idiot, nor am I the dumbest person you have ever met.
I'm just someone whos trying to figure all of this out for the first time, and I thought that coming on here would be a good idea for help.
I'm not going to reply to this guy. you're right, he's horrible. I've known this. I just thought that he had a chance to NOT be so horrible because of the conversation we had.

He was really distraught the entire time, and I could tell that it was genuine. He knew what he was doing was wrong, but he didn't know why he was doing it and that he wanted to change. I really don't think he was lying. He said I was the first person who talked to him about this which shows me that I DID have an impact on him. Whether or not it was enough for him to change is another story. One that I do care anymore to find out.

I think my life will be easier without this mess in it. I don't want to get hurt and come back on here crying about something I knew how to avoid the whole time.

[SteveSmith1985]

Ohh, in my defense... it said "updated 25 minutes ago"... haha, that played a big role in my thinking this was new. (maybe you changed a word or grammar or whatever... thereby updating it)

I was just wondering how I would do that. That's what threw me off.

Well I feel weird continuing my earlier reply, but I think I got the most key things I wanted to say something about. But it really is the best (and most detailed) "thank you" anyone has ever written me on here. It really means a lot. And it feels good to know I knocked some sense into you.

(I was hoping it would be taken well... I thought there was a 50/50 chance it was too harsh. Afterall... I'm just some stranger. I'm glad it worked as intended)

Go ahead and ghost him if that's easiest for you (I have never said that before)

If you think telling him you don't want to be friends (you don't want him in your life at all). The sure, ghost him.

Whatever is best to get him the fuck out of your life. Might make him think twice before ghosting some other girl. (it probably won't)

[Asker]

Its all good, I see how my update was misleading and I'm honestly surprised no one has thanked you before - that was good advice. I just followed you as well by the way, I think its really cool how you help other women like that.

The last thing you can help me with is whether or not to ghost him back. I know I would benefit from having one last conversation to end things, but I know that a lot of guys don't like doing that or don't value it in the same way.

It just seems a bit ironic to ghost him after all of this - although maybe thats what he deserves?

[SteveSmith1985]

I am inclined to agree with you. It would be ironic. It is what he deserves. I'm only ok with it because its what he deserves.

I am also really worried that if you have the conversation with him telling him you don't want him in your life... that he will be able to get you to change your mind.

Ghosting seems the safest to me, in that regard.

AS LONG AS you won't cave in 2 weeks when you get a message about

how much you mean to him, and how hurt he is, and how he thought you were special, and how he's learned what it feels like to be ghosted, and has been thinking a lot about making some changes, and just wants your friendship, because he hasn't ever been able to open up to somebody like he is able to open up to you...

None of that. If that'll make you crack, you might as well have-it-out with him now.

So: Ghost if you can actually stick with it.

[SteveSmith1985]

I missed one of your earlier replies:

" dont know what this guy's deal is exactly with me, (I know you think he doesn't care about friendship at all, but I'm not entirely sure), but it doesn't matter. This isn't worth my time or stress and I don't like what its turning me into.
I dont want to be this type of girl - I have too much self respect for myself to be that. "

You really are one of the smartest girls I've talked to in a situation like this. At least you're best at articulating things. This is exactly right. Exactly.

I'm glad you brought up me calling you dumb and an idiot. I thought you understood I only meant that IF you were the girl who just wrote me that reply... and seemed to get it completely... then decided to do it anyway. THAT was when I thought that about you

(but that wasn't actually you. It was the girl I mistakenly thought you were, until you corrected me)

So I am sorry for saying either of those things. I do not think you're dumb or an idiot.

I think the girl who did what I THOUGHT you were doing... she is a fucking idiot... and a dummy. But that's a totally different girl... who doesn't exist. Not you.

I am sorry.

I don't want to get into it, for risk of accidentally undoing the good I've done here.

It's not that you didn't have any impact on him. It's not that his trauma dumping on you and SEEMING to see you as someone special was all fake, or planned.

If this was a guy you had, (and had never had) romantic interest in... but were genuinely looking to be this guys friend. I wouldn't have a problem with it.

If you weren't clouded by any of the charm and attraction.

I'd say sure, be friends with an asshole and try and change him.

[SteveSmith1985]

That's a completely different situation (and it's lying to yourself to believe you can just be his friend like that. it's impossible)

If you were to try, you would get quite close to him, feel like he cared about you as a person (during friendship). Then get romanticallyy involved, then get spectacularily hurt. Not after he finally fucks you once. It'll be way worse. Because you will have given your heart (and body) to a guy who will hurt you because...

unless you succeed in making him a totally new man (please see earlier in my other reply). WHich you won't. Before getting involved romantically/sexually... you will only get closer to him, to get hurt even worse in the end... because by then you REALLY think he truly cares for you. He will have given you some evidence to think so.

But you won't totally change him and his entire thinking. You will still be getting involved with a guy who is an asshole deep down (as opposed to blatant, and in-your-face). You cannot fix or change him. Even though you feel like you can (or part of you does).

[Asker]

Thank you for the apology from before, I really appreciate it and its all water under the bridge.

I agree with you and I thank you for this.

Honestly your advice along with everyone else's has really helped me to navigate this entire situation. I think I'm just going to try and be okay with not knowing.
I don't really understand what he wants with me, nor what will come of us (if anything), but I just need to stop caring and move on with my life.

I was just so excited to go out with a guy I was attracted to and felt good to know he felt that way about me too. I just got out of a 3 year long relationship with a truly amazing guy who is my best friend. He really taught me to value myself and to not let anyone make me feel less than. Now that we're not together, I almost forgot about that and I don't want to become that girl again like I was before - chasing emotionally unavailable guys who only wanted me for my body. I can't do that anymore - I know I'm worth more than that and I want more than that.

[Asker]

I ran into him the other day. Its so funny because I never saw him on campus before, but this past week I've run into him 3 times. So creepy right?

Anyways, I ran into him in our college food center and he kind of explained things more. He apologized again and said that he wasn't replying to me because he was actually getting coffee with his ex. I guess to get the closure he needs? Or maybe they're hooking up again, I dont know.

He apologized though - its so funny because for a guy who doesn't give a shit, he cares so much about what I think of him. He genuinely got flustered about what I think about him.
He asked me, "do you and your friends think I'm a horrible person?" and I couldn't really reply because, yeah, we all think that. Even Steve Smith thinks so!

He seemed distraught by that and kept trying to explain himself. I told him this was all giving me a lot of anxiety, and he explained that he did want to get coffee with me, he just was going through stuff with his ex. I told him that I thought he was looking at my texts and choosing to ignore me, but he said that was "definitely not true." He said that he hoped he "eased any anxiety."

I didn't look my best when I ran into him and I felt so self conscious the whole time. I kept saying I need to go and he kept saying, "give me five minutes please." Eventually I just told him, "honestly I feel really ugly right now, I need to go," and he said, "stop what? thats not at all what I was thinking. no you dont."

Again, so strange for him to act like this if he truly didn't give a fuck.

[Asker]

I'm letting go of this idea that I can fix or change him like you said. Because I now believe that I can't.
If he's truly talking again with his ex, maybe he's either making progress to change or regressing. I don't know. (I wish I could kind of ask him though but my friend said not to lol).

Regardless, I'm leaving this behind me and just going to focus again on my studies and my friends and just bettering myself after this really painful breakup I've been going through. I'm going to ghost him. If he wants to talk more, he has my number. Point stop. I'm done engaging and putting in this effort.

He is by far the most complicated and confusing and wonderful and horrible guy I've ever met, and I'm choosing not to pursue anything with him. Friendship or otherwise. Finito. Done.

I do want to finally ask you, if by some chance maybe this summer when we're back home or whenever he does reach out to actually hang out and go on dates, do you really think I shouldn't give him a chance? Do boys like that really not change even though he wants to?

[SteveSmith1985]

You are one insightful, intelligent woman. I wish I knew who you were.

Overall, I am so glad to hear that you've decided to try and move on, and not seek closure. Your friend is right, don't ask him anything about anything.

" I'm going to ghost him. If he wants to talk more, he has my number. Point stop. I'm done engaging and putting in this effort."

This I found concerning (although most everything else you wrote sounds perfect).

That won't work. He will put in the effort (do you know how ghosting works? 😋) You are not going to keep him out of your life, if all you do is not message him. Ghosting is hard. You have to not reply. Ever. At all. No matter what they say.

I think this guy is willing to do some work to try and get you. I worry he'll succeed unless you are resolved that you won't let him. Those chance meets on campus put my stomach in knots. I can see him trying, and you half-wavering... but then staying strong in the end.

Most of what you wrote, was great to hear, the talk about your own feelings of self worth and not chasing guys who are not interested in you as a person.

The last question, and the ghosting thing, and a few other points, make me worry it's just a matter of time before he convinces you to cave. I hope I'm wrong. I just hate to see the way he seems to have you half-mesmorized by this connection you feel you've formed.

I don't think a guy like this fundamentally can change. Even when willing. I think his immediate intentions towards you may not even be malicious. In other words, he may very well not be planning to sleep with you and use you. He may very well like you, want to make you his girlfriend and in his mind live happily ever after.

[SteveSmith1985]

What I doubt is that at the end of the day, the guy has changed. The fact that you are drawn to him so intensely scares me. It reminds me of an insect in a spider's web. What I worry about is that he's not going to actually change fundamentally. The same guy who is responsible for at least 4 girls like you, feeling like absolute shit because he used them; isn't going to stay "a decent guy" to you even if he treats you well for a while. He isn't going to ever give another thought to how he treated those girls. He feels no remorse, no guilt or shame (none worth serious self reflection anyway). He just got what he wanted at the time, and moved to the next thing after leaving such pain in his wake.

It worries me, because if he doesn't successfully change the entire way he looks at women, and the regard he has for girl's feelings when he wants something... you're going to get really hurt. Not like these other girls. Way way worse. You are going to have a relationship where you two become close. Where you feel important to him, respected, valued, and overall things will be good (at least).

So when he wants something, i do not trust that the same selfish asshole who could treat people the way he has in the past... will reveal itself once again. I don't know what form that might take. But I know it'll end up with you really hurt. (more coming)

[SteveSmith1985]

So, personally, no. I don't think you should give him a second chance.

Is it possible I'm mistaken? Sure.

If you were a female friend of mine, I would never stop trying to convince you that you shouldn't keep this guy in your life. I would fight it tooth and nail every step of the way.

I see you resolved, but still... somewhat wondering. I urge you to keep your resolve, and to not let him get his tenticals into your "wondering." I think that he will try hard to pry-open the little bit of doubt about what you should do about him. He will try to convince you not to ghost him, he'll try and tell you anything to get you (if you give him half a chance).

My opinion on this guy hasn't changed. What exactly his intentions towards you might be, has undergone a change (for me) considering the timeline. I do think to him, you're someone special. I think he'll put special effort into getting you. I just don't trust that

1. Just because your special to him, doesn't mean he's going to actually treat you like you are (e. g. I wouldn't trust a guy like that not to cheat regardless of whether or not he actually likes you)

2. I don't trust that your being special to him now, will mean anything as soon as he doesn't feel that way. I don't trust that you would stay special to him. And I don't think he would feel compelled not to do you wrong as soon as your shine-wears-off.

I see how much (again, a part of you) you wants to give this a shot. I see the way you fight your better judgement when it comes to him.

I do not want to be responsible for you always wondering, or for you being into him for way too long... because you always have this "what if".

So my opinion remains unchanged. Get him out of your life. Nothing good will come of it. A lot of hurt likely will.

[SteveSmith1985]

I just don't want my opinion to be a critical factor in your deciding not to give him a chance if you otherwise would. I don't want you there, wanting to get with someone, and my opinion holding too much weight.

You aren't the girl I assumed you were at the begining. You did hear what I'm saying, you've shown me you get it. You've thought about it. You seem to agree for the most part. You are equipped to decide whether YOU think you want to give him a chance or not. As long as you take my views into your calculations (which you are). I trust that a smart girl like you can decide that yourself.

I think it's the wrong choice. I think you'll get hurt. but if YOU think its a good idea to give him a chance... I don't think you're an idiot. I'll have to trust that you're seeing something that I'm not.

I am inclined to be protective. I do have an excellent track-record for reading guys from afar (like with you).

But, I've armed you with all the points I can to try and keep this guy from hurting you. If you truly (at some point) feel like you trust he won't... make your own call. I don't want to tell you a definite "no" about whether he can change. Afterall I don't KNOW that he can't or won't. I just don't trust that he can.

[Asker]

I completely hear what you're saying and always, thank you for taking the time to give me advice on all of this. I really do appreciate it - this has been a very difficult thing to navigate and has been distracting me a lot lately and keeping me up at night.

I hear what you're saying that you don't trust him to change, and I agree with you - I don't trust him to either. I guess it was really more of just a hypothetical/fantasy that in a circumstance that he DID, I would give him a chance.

Thats only IF he TRULY changed, which we both agree we don't really see him doing.

I will say though that back to your ghosting point, what I meant by ghosting was that I wasn't going to reach out to him again. I feel like if he reaches out to me to go to coffee or study together, (to actually treat me like a friend and a HUMAN BEING NOT a SEX object), I feel okay doing that. I feel okay getting to know him outside of a hookup situation since I initially did really like him before shit hit the wall.

I just don't want to put myself in another situation where he thinks its okay to try and sleep with me again. Thats all.

If he wants to hang out with a group of friends or in public, I don't see why its a bad thing to do that. I did want a friendship with him so if he wants to try and be friends, I'm not going to shut that down.

But to be honest, I don't see that happening either. He hasn't texted me in like a week and has not asked me once to hang out. So this is all a moot point - I don't see anything developing between us here, friendship or otherwise. I'm ready to just move on and hope that with time, I won't think about him anymore.

Jesus, all I wanted was to meet a nice, cute guy. Is that too much to ask for. Clearly.

[SteveSmith1985]

" I feel like if he reaches out to me to go to coffee or study together, (to actually treat me like a friend and a HUMAN BEING NOT a SEX object), I feel okay doing that."

This right here. This is exactly what NOT to think about a guy like this. Because of the way he looks at women. He could treat women the way he has, then suddenly see you normally. In that sense, you're not special.

I don't believe either of you are interested in a genuine friendship. I know you're not. You don't see the way you talk about him. You are somewhat unaware of some of what comes through in what you write.

If I were some guy who had feelings for you, it would be heart wrenching to hear about just how strongly you're drawn to this guy, and how hard it is for you to just say "I'm just gonna be done"

It's bad.

I say that because I think you need to keep your eyes open. You're lying to yourself if you convince yourself you and he are just going to be friends.

You are also kidding yourself that trying to not hang out with him where he might try something will matter.

I do believe this guy can behave himself to establish some trust, and have you stop worrying about this. You think he sees you as a friend, not a sex object... like he's some normal guy.

[SteveSmith1985]

THAT is what I worry about. THAT is what I think will be your downfall in terms of something happening (anything friendship, whatever)

He will treat you like a friend. You'll get closer as friends, once your close and think he's not a bad guy... do you think he doesn't still want to sleep with you? Do you think he's going to act right in the long-term and respect the boundaries of friendship? Especially when you are as interested as you are... and even I can see the inadvertent signs shedding off in your writing. He can see the interest you won't be able to fully hide (no matter how good an actress you may be)

I feel like I'm watching a boulder perched ever-more precariously on the edge of a cliff (him in your life). I feel like it's going to fall. I don't want it to. There's no way I can stop that giant boulder from falling... if that's what's going to happen.

[SteveSmith1985]

I really do still think it will not go well for you if you let him in your life. I worry you are not at all really trying to keep him out. I'm not trying to make you listen to me. I just wish you saw it closer to the way that I see it.

I am very happy to hear from you (always), but this didn't inspire confidence:

"I did want a friendship with him so if he wants to try and be friends, I'm not going to shut that down."

I hope, for your sake (and my own peace-of-mind) that it really is a moot point. I genuinely hope he never ever contacts you ever again. I am not very confident that this is the case. I do hope it's a moot point. I would rather you wonder, then move on; rather than fall off that cliff.

"Jesus, all I wanted was to meet a nice, cute guy. Is that too much to ask for. Clearly."

Well, that's not necessarily easy. It's doable though. I'd say it's something you can get without too much difficulty. When you let asshole-guys cast a spell on you, and focus on him... it does make it harder to meet a guy like you describe. It's a matter of where you turn your attention/interest.

You can let this go. You know you should. But you evidently cannot being yourself to do so. That frightens me.

[SteveSmith1985]

You can't let this go like you think he's your soulmate. Since he is who he is, it scares me to see you THIS hung-up on him the way you've been. He's a random dude who trauma dumped on you, you've had a few other conversations. You know he;s an asshole. It's not... healthy to care this much... he should not be as important to you as he is.

I like you a lot. You seem like a nice person, and I like the way you think (not everything you think, but the way you thin and overall personality).

I am not trying to scold you, make you feel bad, or be a jerk. I just don't get why you are so focused on him (I could have said that to you a week ago too) if you know intellectually he's not going to change.

I do understand it not being easy or without some residual negative feeling or feeling of losing something.

It's my worrying you believe this friendship bullshit. Both that he can actually see you as a friend like a regular guy over the long run. It's just getting closer; before getting together; before being hurt once your hear is his.

[SteveSmith1985]

I am concerned with the intensity of your (I donno) desire, obsession, infatuation whatever you want to call it... with someone you know is not a good guy, and won't ever be. The fact that your head isn't able to reign in your heart, in this context worries me. It tells me the strength of the pull drawing you to him (this guy should be easier for you to discard and move on from than he is. There is more inner struggle than there should be for a guy you've known so little.

If that boulder does fall off the cliff; I hope you know that I would be very happy to be wrong about him.

I would take no pleasure in being right about this. Like before though, you should do whatever you think is best, this is all just my opinion. Don't give it undue weight.

I hope the point is moot.

I wish the tone of my reply matched how happy I am to hear from you (I really was pleased to see you had replied, I'd love it if you keep me posted). 🙂

[Anonymous]

I’m not saying what he’s doing is right but I get it. Chances are his ex broke it off w him, so emotionally he’s still a her. That’s why he’s seeking closure. He’s probably mad at all women right now that’s why he’s using them for sex. At the same time to fulfill that sexual need. The one thing that makes me think different when it comes to you, yes he was hoping to have sex w you but you said no. Which probably made him see you different. At the same time the fact that he told you that he was just having one night stands w other women made me think. Why did he tell you? Could it be he actually likes you as more than just a friend? As for hanging out it’s possible being around you may scare him a little that he might become more attracted to you. Right now after what happened w his ex sounds as though he’s not wanting to be vulnerable to women right now in fear of something else happening. So being around you just hanging out knowing that you like him as well makes it a little harder. Because honestly people act different around others when they sleep together or they find out their friend likes them as more than a friend. He’s probably confused in a lot of ways. But on the other hand, imagine if you had slept w him. There’s a good chance he would have moved on. So it’s hard to say. But that is up to you to decide what to do.

[Asker]

I think this does have some merit to it and its similar to what some of my friends have said.

I think me not agreeing to sleep with him and being honest about my boundaries really shocked him since NO girl had before. When we started to talk about it, he opened up, like, A LOT. Like, way more than he should of which honestly was weird asf for a first time hanging out.

As for WHY did he tell me? I don't know. Probs because he was high off weed? Lol.

But I know I'm a really good listener and I say things pretty plainly and honestly. Like when he asked me why I wouldn't kiss him, I had no problem in just saying "I dont get with guys the first time I meet them."

When I tell you he literally TOOK A STEP BACK from me wide-eyed like a deer I am not exaggerating. He then went to flop down on his bed, face in hands, like I had just told him his pet died.

When I asked him if any girl had ever said that before, and he explained the whole one night stand thing and his ex ad blah blah blah you know the rest. When I asked him if it was weirding him out I was talking to him like that, he told me that "no one ever had before" and that I had a lot of "emotional intelligence?"

His friend randomly texted me the next day saying that I "put him in his place" and that "he deserved it."

So maybe you're right - maybe he is scared of me or scared of having a friendship with me? He so clearly explained he was terrified of "expectation" and "any kind of commitment" but I reassured so many times that all I wanted was a friendship, since neither of us could give the other what they were looking for. Maybe even that is too much for him. If it is, I don't know why he is continuing to text me. Why he texted me apologizing for the night, and apologizing for not hanging out with me or responding quickly because of his huge paper assignment due. Why put in any effort at all if he usually just ghosts?

[Opinion Owner]

If he was high then yes that might be one reason why he told you all that. Sort of like being drunk, some people just spill their guts.
It is possible what you said to him made him see you in a different light. But it’s also possible that he’s still trying to get w you by acting like he is sorry, that you’re different because you said no. So it could be a challenge to him to try to crack you. Hard to say. Men will go through a lot to get laid.

[Asker]

I ran into him again in our university's cafeteria and he spilled his guts again. We were both sober. I don't know it seems like he cares a lot about what I think of him. I kept telling him I had to go, and he kept asking me to give him "five minutes to explain" everything.
He told me he is talking to his ex again, both of them reflecting on why and how things ended. I guess thats for the closure he needs? Or they're hooking up again? I don't know nor care.

Thank you for this advice. I do however think that he is not trying to hookup with me and that me rejecting him actually turned him off from me, which ouch, hurts as well.

I think he just wants his ex back.

[Opinion Owner]

I don’t think he wants to hook up w you. Well let me take that back. He probably does but he isn’t going to try because he knows you’re not like that. But yes I figured it had to do w the ex. So yes they may be getting back together, maybe just hooking up. But like I said if she broke up w him he was still in love w her.

[SueShe]

Obviously, he sees you only as a target, a victim, just another number to add to his long list of bodies that he used and misused and that he discarded like an old tissue.

I hope you realize that you are nothing more than just a hookup and someone to fornicate once or twice and then, he moves onto the next potential candidate.

Don't expect any friendship from him because those kind of guys are not interested in platonic relationships. He is obviously not in charge of his testosterone but simply the slave and his secondary brain between the ears has nothing to say and is just there for show. His main brain in his groin area is the one doing the talking and he is simply listening and obeying the orders received from it.

[Asker]

i completely hear you and he has emotional issues for sure - literally trauma dumped on me all of the ways he's messed up and hurts girls but just "can't help it." when i asked him why he took me out then if he knew this would happen he literally said "i dont know. but i understand why you don't want to hookup with me."
But are you really sure about the platonic thing? Despite of what, he does keep texting me and he just apologized for getting back to me so late. apparently he has a paper due and he's been studying non stop to get it done...

[SueShe]

It is most likely just a scheme to get you off your guard and he will try to outsmart you and to believe that he is not interested in you.

You are resisting his attempts and that is a "burden" on his ego.

[Asker]

But he seems too dumb to be scheming like that 😭 This is a 21 year old college guy clearly needs therapy and is slow.
And what do you mean I'm a burden on his ego? Like does that mean I bruised his ego by rejecting him or something? I feel like that would make him hate me/ghost me, not continue to text me? I kind of wish he just ghosted me atp this is so much stress on me right now trying to figure this guy out.
I think I might just ghost his text apologizing and leave that as that. Right?

[SueShe]

Yes, you bruised his ego because he is probably not used that girls reject him. You are a challenge to him and he is trying different methods to try to get at you. He will not let lose until you either give in or ghost him.

In the first case, he will drop you as soon as he gets what he wants and in the second case, his ego is going to be more than just bruised.

If this would happen to me, I would ghost that guy and leave him swearing and swearing. He will be over you as soon as he finds another girl.

[Anonymous]

Wow such a complicated situation! Sounds like he’s not emotionally available right now, but you stood out for sure by saying no! I think it’s maybe best to let things be for now. Who knows maybe he’ll come looking for you when he’s over his ex and ready to move on, but I wouldn’t dwell on it.

[Asker]

You're completely right and in NO way am i going to "wait" for him or something. I think I did stand out for sure because the shock he went through when I told him I wouldn't sleep with him was insane. Clearly he has never been rejected before - I guess just his ex girlfriend who he's clearly not over.

Do you think that I should just ghost him or call him to explain this? Me asking for friendship was a really experimental thing and I'm thinking I shouldn't have done it. I feel like he only agreed because he was trying to be nice or something, so I kind of just want to call and tell him he's "off the hook" and we don't have to try and be friends.

[Opinion Owner]

I wouldn’t say anything honestly unless he reaches out to you first.

The behavior he’s giving you reminds me of this guy I’m dealing with right now who’s being super vague and slow to answer messages, full of excuses and apologies… It’s been a year now and the take home is he’s either playing with your emotions or just doesn’t want to hurt your feelings with full on rejection.

If he asks you what’s up then slam the rejection on, but I think otherwise he doesn’t deserve any extra attention.

[Asker]

Well he did reply to me. Did you mean reach out about the situation to talk again? Or you meant reach out in general. Because right now his response is in my text messages unopened

[Opinion Owner]

Sounds kinda like a bad excuse, also he never answered your invitation to the cafe, right? If he didn’t, it would seem that he was evading. Maybe confront him about the invitation again “are we on or not” kinda thing and if he continues to evade or turns down then tell him it’s not going to work.

[Asker]

Yeah, I ran into him and he told me that him and his ex met up for coffee the same day actually to talk about how their relationship ended. He was really nice to me and reiterated how he didn't mean to make me feel bad about him not replying or that we weren't on good terms. But again, he hasn't made any effort to hang out so I think that I should just leave it alone. I think him and his ex are maybe rekindling things, or maybe its complicated and he doesn't want to be involved with any other girl in any way.
he's an asshole for sure when it comes to girls and relationships, but I genuinely don't think he's a bad guy. He really cares about what I think about him for some reason and doesn't want me to think he is one. He seemed really stressed about that.
I dont know, what do you think?

[Opinion Owner]

I think you should definitely leave it be, sounds like a complicated situation that you shouldn’t get yourself tangled up in! Also ask yourself what you’re really looking for here. I get the feeling that the end goal probably isn’t just friends and you deserve better than that!

[Anonymous]

Since you already went on a date and expressed mutual attraction, you can't exactly just be normal "friends." You also made it seem like you are interested in having sex with him, just not so soon. So him saying that he would "try" the friendship means he'll stay in contact with you until you're ready for sex.

[Asker]

But i feel like why would he just stay in contact with me until we have sex. that seems like a waste of time if i were him - we're in college there are literally thousands of girls here to keep him "entertained" so why would he bother putting time and energy into a friendship with just one girl in the hopes of fucking her. unless im like his some kind of dream girl and just amazing and beautiful and perfect and he has to have me (hahaha i'm joking right now but you get what i mean, why would he even put in the effort?)

[Opinion Owner]

Well that's the thing, he sort of half-agreed to "try" the friendship and now he's being flaky. So you're asking why would he put all this effort but he's clearly not putting much effort...

You must be pretty into him because you seem desperate for any sign that he cares about you. Look, I'm sure he does like you and thinks you're attractive but he's shown he's not interested in serious commitment. So you have to make the decision of will you develop some kind of friends with benefits thing with him even though you didn't initially want that, or do you walk away because that's not what you want. I'm not really judging, it's your decision. But there's not really a scenario where he decides you're the most special girl in the world and starts dating you and being super committed.

[Asker]

You're completely right. he's been really flaky and putting in half commitment and I don't deserve nor want that.
You're right, I am pretty into him. I've had a crush on him for like a year and a half now.
When i first got to university, he was the first guy I thought was really cute and I always thought so. So now that this is all unfolding, its really complicated for me.
I dont want to be friends with benefits. Actually, it wouldn't even be that. It would be just a benefit, for which (as he clearly stated) he would ghost me the next day. So there's no friendship in that situation either.
Plus when I ran into him, he told me that him and his ex are talking. Not sure if they hooked up, but he said they met over coffee which is why he hasn't been replying to me.
I'm going to walk away. I'm leaving it alone. If he wants to reach out to me he can, he has my number and I've expressed numerous times that I like him as a person and want to hang out with him.
I think he might be the most complicated guy I've ever met. One because he's so open with his feelings with me (I don't know if he is with other people) and he explains so much and hasn't ghosted me, but at the same time, he doesn't show it and It hurts yk?
Its honestly too much and I'm leaving the ball in his court. If he wants to get back together with his ex thats fine i can't care about this anymore.

[Alex-Snow]

It sounds like he is still very confused about what he wants in life. I think there is kinda red flag if he is doing hookups and ghosting them afterwards. How old is he? Maybe give him some time to chill and sort things out. Your thoughts?

[Asker]

he's 21! we're both in college together but we come from the same city back home.
I think he is very confused - he doesn't quite seem to understand his feelings or what he really wants. I think that he's using these one night stands to fill something.
He said he met up with his ex when I ran into him a couple of days ago. Its funny because every time I've run into him its been so nice. he's so freaking nice to me in person. But he doesn't put in any effort to be friends. So I just can't be bothered with this anymore.
He has my number, he can call or text me if he wants to.

[Nikki1989]

He is just doing the typical guy thing and attempting to use you. Don't let it happen.

[Asker]

i know i know and im so happy i didn't just agree to have sex with him - i would of broke down if i got ghosted after that

[Anonymous]

Maybe there is a chance, you should take initiative.

[Asker]

can't tell if ur jk don't delude me more than i already am rn 😭 i have been taking initiative and he's not giving it back

[Opinion Owner]

Is he very shy?

[Asker]

I mean he's kind of shy? I mean, yeah I think he is? I ran into him at the gym and he was like awkwardly laughing and stuttering. But that could just be because we had such a weird experience together.

He said he doesn't know how to have friendships with women and that commitment scares him though, so I fear that me asking him to hang out as friends is making him feel like I'm coming onto him or something, even though I told him im not.

[Opinion Owner]

I see, it seems he has very low self-confidence.

[Anonymous]

Run! The dude is obviously an asshole

[Asker]

but i dont get it - if he didn't want to be friends with me bc i won't sleep with him, why is he texting me still and and apologizing for being busy? if he was such an asshole wouldn't he just ghost me for not sleeping with him

[Opinion Owner]

He could be manipulating you until you finally agree to date him or something.

[Asker]

He doesn't want to date - he made that very very clear which is why we ended things so weirdly. It was like a - okay im gonna leave now since you just told me you wanna sleep with me and ghost me! Bye bye!

[Opinion Owner]

Yeah he’s odd