Thoughts on prenups?

Question

I asked my girl to sign a prenup.

She got angry. She said it's not about the money. She said its about trust.

I told her that if she signs the prenup, then should have my full trust. Apparently she got more angry, saying that I should have fully trusted her to begin with. Like she fully trusted me.

I said, I did have full trust in her, as I fully expected her to sign it.

She said she not signing it. And I was being dense and not understanding her.

Why are people so against prenups? Not so much just women. But men who dont like it either. What's y'alls thoughts?

Updates

+1 y

I see this question is pissing off all of y'all.

Why don't y'all like prenups?

BCRanger10 · Accepted Answer

I am against prenups. A prenup is an expectation that a couple will encounter problems that they will be unable, though I'm more tempted nowadays to say will choose not to overcome. They're basically putting an asterisk on their marriage.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. People are incredibly naive about this. We live in a world where people take prenuptial agreements more seriously than they take marriage. They act as though if a couple divorces, both parties will totally respect everything in the prenup to the letter. Prenups can be challenged in court, and I can only assume changed and amended at any point. All it's doing if a divorce happens is adding another layer of complication.

Personally, I don't blame her for being upset. She was ready to give herself whole and entire to you for the rest of her life. Then you asked her, essentially, to agree to protecting you from her if the worst happened. You asked her to agree to a legal barrier between you and her, as if you anticipated there would be a reason for it. But that's not the thinking one should have when preparing for marriage. It's a very schizophrenic approach to marriage.

And not only that, but you said you'd trust her fully after you gave her reason to think that you don't already and to wonder if you ever really did to begin with.

No, prenups should never be an option, especially today when no-fault divorces are a thing and "irreconcilable differences" is a justification for divorce.

Chazmatazz269 · Accepted Answer

Hahahaha!
First of all, i’m calling shenanigans. If you’re smart enough to want a prenup, then you’re smart enough to know they’re barely worth the paper they’re printed on. Prenuptial agreements are countered or wholly ignored every day in the west. No court in the US is required to recognize a document that the court itself didn’t originate. That’s a fact of law that too few people dare talk about. Prenups are PRIVATE agreements made BEFORE divorce proceedings. Therefore if either party challenges a prenup during divorce, it’s too easily partially countered and quite often completely ignored. Interestingly, the people who need prenups the most don’t use them to eliminate foul gains from divorce, but to limit them. A woman might be limited to $10M, as opposed to “50%” of $1.5B, for example. Win for both, so no contest to the prenup.
You do bring up solid points about trust though. You failed to dictate this specifically, so i’ll go into it myself. “Trust” goes both ways. If you should trust her not to rip you off in divorce, then she should equally trust you to not take advantage of a prenup. Since US courts are notoriously anti-male, the greater trust expectations are definitely on men! I would go so far as to say if she won’t sign a prenup, she isn’t “the one”. Ell oh ell!

CrazyGirl2 · Accepted Answer

Well, as a woman with an eight figure trust fund (and who recently won her uncle’s trust fund in a lawsuit because he raped me), I guarantee you that my future husband is signing a prenup, or he won’t be my future husband! (Now that’s not MY choice, I could lose BOTH trust funds if I marry without one) Look I absolutely agree with the reasons why most women would feel like the guy is already planning to replace her in 10 years with a younger model. But guys, I got news for you, be careful what you wish for… More women are going to college, more women are graduating. More women are becoming lawyers, doctors, veterinarians, you name it, even women in STEM fields out-earn there male counterparts. We are out earning men until about age 35 to 40 (which is when we decide to have children), but it won’t be long before women like me are not the only one’s who will have WAY more Money than men. Guys talk about “a woman’s diminishing value as she gets older). Well if THAT is what you want, then just wait for it guys, because give it a decade, and WE will be discussing the diminishing value of MEN as YOU age! Don’t get me wrong, I would LOVE it to not be like this, but this is the system YOU all created, we just have to live with the results… Who would have though the tables would turn SO quickly?

LuvMeSomeBoys · Accepted Answer

My thoughts as a lawyer (although I don't practice civil law, my firm does):

It seems to be a milennial thing, and is much more complex to do correctly than loose comments on social media suggest.

In the majority of cases, prenups become as worthless as the paper they are written on. That's why they're often thrown out. They are a lot like liability waivers; they're "scare me" documents, but are easily overcome when contested in civil courts. With the scenario outlined in the original post, it's a shot in each foot right out of the gate, making such a document totally worthless.

One of the two needs to have considerable resources to make it worth the effort. I'd say less than $5 Million in total assets would make doing a prenup a waste of time.

Even the best prenup isn't ironclad. Where prenups conflict with state joint property laws, the law wins. That happens a lot. Add to it couples who go for shake-and-bake prenups often disregard the terms of their prenups once they're married, and end up violating the terms of their own arrangement.

If protecting assets in case of separation or divorce is the idea, one is better off not getting married in the first place.

Bethany22 · Answer

There's nothing like a scorned woman who's husband cheats on her with a younger woman, and she has no way of getting revenge against him since she signed a prenup

BlueScorpio · Answer

I'm assuming they don't like it cause to them it seems like their spouse sees the relationship as already doomed and deemed to fail in the future. I'm assuming they think, if you already don't plan to be with them ling term, then there's no point signing it.. might as well as call it it quits right then now I guess? 🤔

DaveJord · Answer

I agree with you, don't marry her.

Haha456 · Answer

its quite funny how men say that a woman's career / money doesn't matter. Date a broke woman who never had her life in order. then complains about her not signing a prenup.

if you're gonna date a broke person without her life in order, don't complain if she decides not to sign the prenup. She has no incentive to sign the prenup. She has no assets of her own to protect. And lastly, you're a damn fool if you think there is anyone on earth who would be willing to help protect your assets for you.

Subarugirl · Answer

Well most people are not. Generally men won’t spend the money time or effort to have one written up, notarized and signed correctly. Some women fail to realize that a prenup protects her also. It’s just a legal document that honestly everyone should have before getting married.

jshm2 · Answer

Depends on a lot of factors. Mainly on what the prenup is there to protect.

If it's shared wealth and you are a small part of it, then fair enough. Why should others have to suffer because you had a poor marriage?

If it's just to exclude, and protect yourself and give her/him nothing. Then it's wrong.

Also, don't forget, 99% of prenups are worthless anyway. Most can be annulled in court. You're just paying a lawyer money for something that might not be legally enforceable anyway!

LiamJHayden · Answer

Two-edged sword. If you have substantially more assets and/or earning potential than your intended, you'd be a fool to not at least consider one. Yes, it should be about trust but in a decade when you've both changed and she (or he, for the ladies who are the higher earners) unilaterally decides to divorce, that "trust" won't change the 50% entitlement and, in many jurisdictions, the open-ended alimony till remarriage.

The other edge is that the intended very well could tell you to take a hike, because in her eyes (or his for the ladies) the asker seems to be the one making it all about the money.

A prenup can also be viewed as an assumption that the marriage will fail.

Anonymous · Answer

Oh it's totally about the money. She's deceiving you.

Prenup is something you need to have if you don't want to end up like Kanye West. Ironically he advised getting a prenuptial agreement and didn't have one himself.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/celebrity/inside-kim-kardashian-and-kanye-west-s-pricey-divorce-settlement/ar-AA14JTRM

zariahdp · Answer

If you want a prenup I’d say you let her know she can add what she wants to it as well. A pre nup is a mutual agreed contract that saves the both of you not just you. She can as well add her own clauses and once that’s done maybe she will agree to do it. Just seems like you want her to sign it with no input for her.

Adaeva · Answer

Whenever someone says, "It's not about the money," it's about the money. Therefore, she let you know, it is all about the money. If you don't have it is writing, trust is worthless. Any man that trusts a women is a fool. That is not to say, the marriage will not work out because half the marriages are successful. However, if it doesn't she will disregard any promises she made.

Price511 · Answer

Prenups are typically seen as “divorce insurance,” though this separation of assets is a lot more than that.

The separation of assets also counts as a separation of debt; if one person dies with a huge amount of debt, or they got into huge debt via maybe medical bills or a risky loan or some other such, it stays with them and dies with them. This can work as a way to avoid debt inheritance and can keep a family safe and financially afloat in case of that occurrence.

NamerOfStars · Answer

It's a bitter pill, but a necessary one. Yeah, even if you DO completely trust each other, well, so did almost every other person whose marriage disintegrated. Do you REALLY think you're smarter than ALL of them?

I mean, it protects HER, too- if it doesn't say much about the person asking, then what does it say about the person refusing?

And of course, at the rate they get thrown out in divorce court, they're not that good a defense, anyway.

HighValue · Answer

Only someone that intends to steal from you would refuse to sign a prenuptial agreement.

Why does she lock her door?

Why does she have car insurance?

Why do people eat healthy or exercise?

Preventative measures are a good thing. Only someone that intends to do something harmful would be against someone taking preventative measures.

Anonymous · Answer

Two things about prenups.

First, they are virtually worthless in court because judges often throw them out.

Second, that's not the real value of a prenup anyway. The true value of a prenup is in exposing unworthy women. If a woman balks at a prenup, RUN THE OTHER WAY AND DON'T LOOK BACK.

Men should ALWAYS require a woman to sign a prenup, and pay close attention to how she reacts. That's the key.

inhua · Answer

in this day and age of divorces and alimony, it's a smart idea to have a prenup though they can still be thrown out which is why you're gonna need multiple witnesses to watch the signing.

LazerBean · Answer

I think you should just stay as roommates with benefits if you feel like that's necessary.

In_Trance · Answer

I think you need to ask yourself why you're getting married before you do this.  I want to spend my life with you, but I don't trust you🤔

Apple1996 · Answer

I would never be with someone who wanted a prenup.. it's literally planning for a divorce before the marriage even happens

abc3643 · Answer

You fucked up. Worse, you don't have the slightest inkling about love and thus should not be married.

SaoirseS · Answer

Did you have the prenup drawn up and ready for her signature?

BJP21 · Answer

Im all for them, In the event of a divorce, it makes everything streamlined so you dont have War of the Roses. Kind of like a living trust in a sense.

BarryLiverstone · Answer

Think you asked her to marry you and she trusted you completely to say yes. Seems like you don’t trust her

LeeannaDD · Answer

Only gold diggers and narcissists get mad about prenups.

exitseven · Answer

I asked my wife to sigh a prenup before we got married. We were both flat broke when we got married. We had a good laugh about it.

bamesjond0069 · Answer

Dumb for even getting married. Just be together. Then she knows she has nothing unless she maintains the relationship and she will be on her best behavior forever. Win win.

linka_pat307 · Answer

Women give their whole in relationship the best they can get is the property at the end

Anonymous · Answer

Chances are, she's a gold digging bitch. Sorry the only reason to refuse to sign it is if she already intends to divorce you and take everything you have.

Jamie05rhs · Answer

Dump her. I see many red flags in this conversation alone. Do not marry this woman.

legalboxers · Answer

prenups are best C-Y-As.

dustybiker · Answer

They are smart. Everyone should have them.

Anonymous · Answer

I signed one. I see no problem with it.

Sasha0426 · Answer

Be honest, do you actually trust her?

Anonymous · Answer

Its a fantastic idea.

moonpie89 · Answer

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