This is all she wants stability. Not to worry
I believe women nowadays act as a means of necessity. Never said we don’t need you never said we don’t want you we just have to go on.
“Life wait for no man” can’t wait for you to put a roof over our heads. Marry us one day and take care of us we’re not invalids
There’s a difference between dependency and a dependent why can’t she just be a fully functioning adult
Balance is the key here. Too often, people feel they need to go to extremes in order to be successful at whatever they choose. I remember the early days of the feminist movement, when women did all in their power to be the best men they could be. They dressed like them, acted like them and talked like them. I understand they realized some strength was necessary to push themselves into places they were previously not accepted, but they took it to an extreme. They didn't bother to educate men to seeing the value of what they learned during their early female education.
Even today, many women feel they need to be aggressive in order to succeed or be heard. There are many ways women can be noticed and heard, even if they are dealing with blind people who can't see how they look. Being the lone wolf and doing everything by yourself is not ideal. Let's say you choose people to play on a basketball team. You start by choosing Kobe Bryant. Now, he's great at doing everything, so he chooses to do so. He'll pass, receive, shoot, block and make all the points. Will your team succeed? No, because other teams will realize he's the only one doing anything, so they'll guard him 5 on 1 and ignore everyone else. Showing people they are an asset to the team will get us much further than insisting on having all the limelight.
There is nothing wrong with a woman being capable and taking care of herself and being successful. It's when others perceive her as pushing everyone else out of the picture that they choose to not approach her unless necessary. Needing others is saying we are incapable. Desiring and choosing others is not a sign of weakness or dependency. There is a big difference between enjoying making a meal with a partner and needing to make a meal with a partner. Both experiences will be totally different.
Only insecure men are scared of confident women, but cocky women are just as much of a turn-off as cocky men. Be observant to see whether your own actions limit or expand on your opportunities in all areas. Choose what works... not what you feel you have to do.
“early days of the feminist movement, ” referring to this time. In the beginning, women could not vote when they could not own property women could not do lots of things even my grandmother had to put her house into her husband’s name in order to purchase it and then of course, years later,
Women in the beginning, or seem as property. Or sold off to the highest bidder, or bringing families and nations together, not by their own choosing, and some into women, bashing, or hating physical harm.
Awe... you had to go to the feminist thing. You triggered that response. She's 28, so she wasn't around in the 1980's she's, like 3rd to 4th generation feminist at best, and I doubt she would consider herself a feminist at all. But back in the 80's and through the 90's women had to battle... but this post has nothing to do about that, she's a GEN Z type.
And feminist back in the 80's and 90's were Gen X'ers. Like me and we Gen X'ers had the mentality that we had to battle Baby Boomers... because you all took everything and gave nothing to us, used it all up and let nothing behind of use to use. Now you all got to deal with the Millennials and these GEN Z types... and they like Boomers look right past the GEN X, which I refer to as the forgotten generation.
So I say all that to say the feminists in the 80's and 90's were GEN X types and like all of us GNE X types we had to fight for what you could carve out for ourselves.
I'm talking about the second wave of feminism that started in the late 60's. The concept of glass ceiling didn't exist till Marilyn Loden coined it as she spoke on a panel at the 1978 Women’s Exposition in New York. I wasn't around for the first wave, when women were treated as property. You probably would have laughed at the caricatures of women back then. It's like when I was stationed in the south while in the Air Force. Some of the southerners I met were caricatures of caricatures. I thought it had to be a put on... but it was real.
As I stated before, I was only talking about the beginning, whatever is happening now is crazy there’s too many things going on racial injustice or problems that are too big to even focus on just women issues when there are I prefer womanism wear all around do you want better for humankind?
Like you said too much to focus on... everyone wants justice. I don't even know what it means honestly. I am burnt out over it. People bitch, you give them something or do something for them... then they bitch about that, or want more.. or find something else to bitch about.. because bitching worked last time. It's just, one bitch, grripp and complaint after another.
Well, a lot of men, who have an issue with independent women, do want women to be dependent on them. That's the point. They long for a time when their masculine role was protected and honored by a woman's inability to take care of herself. "Make America Great Again," for example, has as much to do with sexism and a call for a return to a specific type of masculinity and patriarchy as all the other problems with that mantra. At the very least, it's halfway *honest* - a lot of men are yearning to go back to the time you've described where women had no/few rights outside of the role of wife and mother. They call it "traditional values" to make it sound nice. People who benefit from any system of oppression, or believe in any existing system of oppression, will not want to let go of the privilege once/still held or the way things used to be, that's just the truth of sociology and politics across the board. If it were easy to make the world perfectly just for everyone, we'd live in an ideal utopia by now, but alas...
And to be fair, some men don't know this is what they're feeling. It could also be said that we're in a transitionary period where some men have lost a sense of what their role in society should be, are coping with a challenge to that role - perhaps. However, I do think that's a bit generous in some ways. Men (and many women!) have been strongly opposed to feminism since day one. So when people in the comments here try to pull the "oh, the other feminism was fine, but things have gotten out of control," it's all smoke and mirrors. You can do your research to read about the heavy, strong, indisputable resistance against even the earliest, most moderate forms of feminism. Even the "good kinds of feminists" had to beg, plead, face ridicule and abuse, and in some cases risk their lives and physical well being to get men to even give them basic things like the right to vote. So I want to stress : SOCIETY, AND MEN ESPECIALLY, HAVE NEVER SUPPORTED ANY VERSION OF FEMINISM without a ton of work from feminists to fight for their accomplishments, or even just the right political and economic circumstances. This is about male supremacy, subjugation of women, and a lack of respect for women inherently. Misogyny.
Now, even as a radical feminist, I do think the reaction is understandable. It's unacceptable, but understandable. Many men feel such little power in life that power over women becomes a lifeline for their masculinity and something they don't want to lose hold of. In my opinion, part of the solution (aside from not being a misogynist little shit) is to come together and fight for economic justice (socialism for me). It's digging deeper to identify where our feelings of dissatisfaction are coming from and how they're connected to systems around us. But also, I think part of this is inevitable - power and systems don't easily fade when well established.
I will say that sometimes, it's complicated and an opposition to feminism can involve a correlation to other things that seem a danger. For example, some middle eastern feminists talk about how it's not just misogyny, but that their men view the United States as an oppressive force that is the source of feminism and therefore something that should be opposed - so they use that as a way to counter feminism. So the feminists argue that American military and geopolitical dominance/aggression in the Middle East is an active threat to their fight for feminism. And there's even a history of Western colonial powers encouraging sexist, oppressive norms abroad. It's pretty shitty. Just a side note on how our own foreign policy actions affect feminists/women in other countries as well.
There is a narrative about women not needing relationships. The goal is to want someone, not desperately need them. I think men react to it as something that is an offense to them. It's interesting because many of these same men don't have an issue with men saying the same thing - they even admire or praise men who literally live a lifestyle of "we don't need really need women romantically" - guys who can play the field, sleep with lots of women, almost any randomly selected musician talking about how disposable women are in their lyrics and lifestyle, men who focus on career and money, whether for a period of time or forever, etc. So that should be something interesting to you. Why don't men have a problem with men who espouse the same rhetoric - "we don't need relationships to be happy, secure, or good - a little company/sex right now is fine while we focus on career and money and the bros." And lets not even get into the "older women aren't wanted here - we don't need you" which is also popular among this crew. Why is it a problem when women behave this way too, even in a more productive and positive manner? Shouldn't women have the right to enjoy life and be happy without a relationship until they want one, if they ever do? If they think men and women are equally worthy of respect, why does this same exact thing trigger them in women but sound empowering or entertaining in men? (*Whisper* : because they don't.)
Personally, I *don't* "need a man" - that means having a relationship is not the only way that I can be happy, secure, comfortable, or to survive. No matter how much I *feel* I need to be with someone, it's always important to *know* how to steer your ship - your emotions can't completely control you or your concept of reality, if you want a healthy life or relationship. As my therapist friend loves to say, "your thoughts/emotions are not facts." Feeling that you desperately need someone when in love is different from knowing you'll be okay alone if you have to be. (It also makes for much healthier relationships, in my opinion.) When we love someone, we can feel that we need them, but it's important to understand that you don't objectively. You want them, but if something gets very unhealthy or toxic or unsafe - you can walk away. You won't stay in extremely unhappy toxicity that can't be resolved or abuse because you need them - you can leave. If the relationship ends for any reason - you will push through the mourning and your resilience will carry you on to the next chapter and so on. If you're single for a long time, you don't need to be sad about it because life is beautiful and look at all the other love around you - you don't specifically need romantic love at every stage of your life. I want my boyfriend and he wants me. Neither of us wants to be with the other out of a desperate need - and for many secure adults, that's unattractive longterm. He has been with women who were more dependent, and he didn't like it, and it predictably turned manipulative and toxic. We're not incomplete or broken as individuals - we are complete on our own - and we have to be - but we still want to be in each other's lives, in each others company, to build a life together, and that desire grows stronger and stronger. Now, that isn't the same as "we don't need men for anything in the world," and hardly anyone is saying that. We all need each other socially, politically, economically - no one is an island unto themselves, as they say. We literally all need each other for survival, for comfort, for inspiration, companionship, friendship, raising families takes a village, etc. I have/have had relatives, close friends, great former professors, career mentors, my dad was one of my best friends as a little kid growing up, etc. - there are many men who have been a part of shaping me, supporting me, and they're a part of the social fabric of my life. That's not what anyone is saying when they say "I don't need *a man*" - they're owning this new space that women have to be independent and self-reliant. Some men do get this, to be sure. The others are the dudes you're talking about.
I'll be honest - I think part of the misogyny toward women is a jealousy and resentment to the kind of power women have when not controlled. Women have stronger friendships and social networks, older widows say they're happier after their husbands die, women statistically struggle more with mental health within relationships whereas I believe research shows the opposite for men, and maybe most important to some men - women have unmatched sexual advantage for most of our lives compared to men. If you add in modern technology to control reproduction (birth control, abortion), they have even more advantage and freedom. There's an online misogynist fantasy about the wall when you hit 30 and that is only true when you have societies that enforce that as a norm more strongly than is enforced in most cities in the West in 2022. But that fantasy is born from something and it's important to think about where it comes from when in reality (at least in my reality) it's obviously so opposite to how dating, sex, and relationships play out.
Some men feel threatened cause they think if she can provide for herself, it makes them feel like their purpose or role is taken from them. It could also be an ego thing for some men for whatever reasons.
The reason women wanted to start earning their own is so they could have something to fall back onto in case times get rough. There have been times when the husband died, lost his job, became controlling/abusive, or took off on his family. This left women with no work experience in a tough place, and they did not want to see themselves or better yet their children starving, so they decided to work. Plus the with the way men are about money these days, it's just best to have your own.
You have men complaining about paying for dates and being afraid of catching a goldigger, i highly doubt they're going to want to pay for others things like shoes, makeup, hair appointments, nails etc. Women like to pamper ourselves and shop, not all men are going to be keen on the idea of paying for certain things we want. For example I like buying perfumes and clothes, etc. That can get pretty pricey, my last purchase was 50 dollars cause I like doing self-care. Buying new cute clothes was like maybe 90 to 100.
But there are still great husbands out there don't mind providing, my grandfather was one of them. He took care of all 13 of his children on a farm. If guys want to to be a provider then their going to have to be a little generous with their lady so she can keep herself up. We're not saying she has to break the bank or be okay with being a shopaholic.
and the worst part is that women say they dont need a man but they are always asking other dudes to pay for their needs. that tells me something about women.
@chicosuave I'm gonna be honest with you, I rarely hear women saying this in real life. But we're also getting mixed messages from men as well. Men say they want to feel needed, be the head of the house etc. But then when we ask or expect that guys automatically assume we're being golddiggers.
ahaha true
So here is the deal, I agree that independent women want stability. The problem is that they have already accomplished that for themselves. So if you want a committed long term relationship, then you have to be willing to accept change, because that is what relationships do they interject change in to your life. You have to be willing to accept changes and make changes to your life in order to make room in it for the other person. This means you have to be willing to accept a degree of instability, while the relationship develops and make your self vulnerable to a degree of instability as you work through that process with the other person.
So strong independent people, at times are resistant to this process because they know that they have set up their lives that they don't necessarily need anyone else. They may want someone else, but wanting and needing are two different things... so when it come times to make the leap of faith and trust someone else they are more risk adverse and that how they achieved stability and independence to begin with. By making logical and analytical decisions to avoid risk while still achieving success.
I am independent man, I am confident, honest genuine, finically stable, I make 6 figures, my home is paid off, my car is paid off, I have 810 credit score, I am moderately handsome, with an above average dad bod and thinning hair line, but other wise physically fit and in excellent health. I would love to find a independent women that compliments my life and much as I can compliment hers. Issue is that these types of women are hard to find, because they are set in their life's as firmly as I am set in mine.
So they seem to want someone that will conveniently slid right into their lives on their terms when its convenient for them... and compliment their life. And its hard to really get past that, if they are not willing to recognize that they have to put forth the effort and engage in a honest give and take process that requires concessions in order to figure out how that could work with another person. This especially hard when they are seeking a like minded person, that is stable and independent, because they both want the same things from the other person, while trying to figure out how they are going to accomplish that and still keep what they have and gain what they want. And that is not an easy ask when all they want is stability and are not willing to accept change that brings risk of emotional vulnerability that could interject major instability in their lives.
@Onashir lol... your right. These women want honest, sincere and geniue men. Until they find one that id also confident, stable, independent and self sufficient. So what they want may not be want they need, and what they need doesn't seem to be what they want. Until find it and then redo the calculations.
Opinion
70Opinion
There are women who say they don’t need or want a man, and some men hear that and feel worthless. You can be an independent woman and still value a partner that complements your life.
----------------Men like to take care of their woman. Women who say " I can do it myself" is not attractive to a bonafide provider and protector. That's masculine energy that men don't want.
First, absolutely NO ONE who refers to themselves as "strong and independent" is strong and independent. People are REALLY strong and independent don't need to say so - everything about them makes that known - it's obvious. People who have to say that they are strong and independent are doing so because they are trying to convince THEMESELVES as much as everyone around them that it's true.
Second, independence isn't a NEED, it's a WANT. No one is independent unless they WANT to be independent, because being independent is a lot of work that has to be specifically focused on being independent.
And the very definition of "independent" is to not rely on other people. That's what it MEANS. But this is antithetical to the idea of being in a relationship, especially a romantic relationship. Such relationships are, by nature, dependent and and require vulnerability and sacrifice and compromise - all things that go against independence.
But let's talk about the wider truth, because that's what we're really talking about.
When a woman says "I'm independent, but I want a man", what she's really saying is "I want all the advantages and privileges of independence, AND all the advantages and privileges of being in a relationship, but I don't want the liabilities or responsibilities of either." She wants access to the man's time, attention, labor, and resources, but she doesn't want to give anything back - or give up anything - in return.
Men see this for exactly what it is: delusion and entitlement, and they know if they're stupid enough to go along with it, that woman will RUIN him. Society will support HER at every turn, at HIS expense. We know how biased divorce and family courts are towards women, but it's many other things as well. If a man is upset at a woman in public, everyone blames the man. If a woman is upset at a man in public, everyone askes what did the man do to make the woman upset, and everyone blames the man. Women know this and use it against men all the time - and this is ESPECIALLY done by "strong and independent" types.
Feminism has brainwashed women into believing that being "independent" is attractive - but it is literally "man repellant" for men who are looking for serious relationships. Sure, guys who just want some casual sex love it - it means the guy doesn't have to even worry about any financial obligations if he hurts her feelings; she won't be able to guilt him into paying her bills. But no man with any sense is going to see an "independent" woman as a serious relationship partner. That would be a guaranteed ticket to divorce court and his own financial raping at the hands of a female-sympathetic judge.
Because they literally say this, all the time? It's like, fine. You don't "need a man." Good for you. But don't expect anyone to clap for you and kiss your ass for it. And don't change your mind when you hit 35 and suddenly want a baby when it's too late.
If all a woman wanted was "stability," she'd pay for her own food on dates and not care how much money a man made, as long as he had a job and could pay his own bills. But THAT surely doesn't seem to be the case with modern women, now IS it? 🤔
@D_Bone_Steak on here had the perfect response. It's like a guy saying "F*ck hoes, get money" all day, every day. And then still expecting people to not only care, but to stand up and applaud you for saying it.
I think that's what bothers us the most. Women TRYING SO HARD to say "Look at how strong and independent I am! I'm just like a man! I'm just like all of you men! I don't need you! I can make my own money! See! LOOK AT HOW MUCH MONEY I'M MAKING, HA HA HA!"
And NOTHING bothers these women more than a man's indifference to that. Cause it's not like 99% of straight men want to date a man in a woman's body. And it's not like these uber-masculine female "Alpha Males" will even share any of that money and success with any man they're attracted to, like successful men are expected to do with women.
So at this point, men are just like "Shut the f*ck up, already! No one cares! Go be strong and independent over there, SILENTLY."
It could be partial just how it’s presented and said. Like, “I don’t need a man.”
That’s true. They’re financially and emotionally independent. But, it doesn’t need to be phrased that way. Phrasing it like that has some unwelcoming undertones to it.
Imagine if a man said, “I don’t need a woman.” or “I don’t need children.”
Would they sound like the kind of man that is looking for a woman to marry and father her children?
No, right?
So, I think part of this thing that’s happening has to do with the language we use and the associations we have to certain phrases.
A more welcoming and inviting way of saying that they don’t need a man may be something like: “I enjoy having a career that allows me take care of my own expenses. But, I also want to have someone special by my side to enjoy our lives together.”
The vibe is just so much more welcoming.
It takes charisma to woo someone, male or female.
Independence is once thing, but one should not forget how to carry themselves in a charming and romantic way.
It could be partially*
Feminist Gloria Steinem said: “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.”
Women around the world cheered.
For 60 years Feminists have been saying that men were vile oppressors and rapists who were not needed, or wanted, by women.
A claimed million women took to the streets, wore pink cat-ear beanies, and shrieked their hatred of men.
Tens of millions of women have retweeted #KillAllMen, #WasteHisTime and #MeToo.
When men tried to meet to discuss male suicide and mental health problems, Feminists protested, blocked access to the venue and screeched insane hatred at men who tried to attend.
When British woman Erin Pizzey opened a shelter for male victims of domestic violence, Feminists sent her a parcel bomb, murdered her dog and committed other terrorist acts that caused her to leave Britain.
An increasing number of men are hearing what women have been saying for 60 years and paying attention to the deeds of those women, such as when Feminist Valerie Solanas shot artist Andy Warhol.
When a group of people say for 60 years that they hate us, want us dead and a few of them act on that murderous rhetoric, it is time to believe them.
MGTOW monk is the only viable path left to men today.
I can’t say from a guy’s perspective but I’m a hyper independent person, and I know it’s unhealthy but from little trust issues that have built up over time and from being an only child, I love and almost crave the feeling of completing tasks on my own, being in control, and being at peace with myself. I take myself out really often and yes sometimes I wish I can share this same feeling with someone but the second I notice a guy starting to have feelings for me, I much rather be by myself. I think the idea of men thinking woman who are independent doesn’t need men in their life goes the same the other way around; we think someone who “prefers to do things on their own” won’t need someone else in their life, when in reality, we just haven’t met anyone who can match our independent energy and understand that we need our own space sometimes.
You, have just hit the nail on the head, I like doing my own thing and having space but people I end up with see that as me “pulling away/not loving them” like just chill I still love you I just want some me time
@ch15hannT I totally agree this is us it @hahahmm and @KrakenAttackin
@Justneedtokno Most quality dudes don't want "hyper independent" women. And the ones who do already got one and 500 more waiting in line so...
Then maybe you shouldn't act so independent in front of everyone because people will get the idea that you don't need anyone or anything and you'll end up alone.
There are people out there that like when someone NEEDS them.
Do you hug yourself? Do you have sex with yourself?
Life is very lonely without the touch of another human being.
Switch man to woman and woman to man in what you wrote and you've described me.
What I think irritates people and why it's become a meme at this point, is how it's shoved down our throats constantly. I've seen women that choose to be a domestic housewife get riddled with hate online just as much as a man that says he's done with women.
A lot of these movements are like that. They overdo it and push it until regular people are just like STFU already. It's like, "hooray for you, you're strong and independent and don't need no man... I DON'T CARE! Now get out of my face with it." I would go so far as to compare it to one of those rappers that does nothing but brag about his money, cars, and his hoes. <---if you're not into listening to a guy brag to you about how cool he is 24/7, it starts to just sound dumb and annoying.
Your switcheroo does not make sense
Sorry to hear that. You get the idea though right?
Some guys have a problem with the fact that women no longer NEED men to survive, so they have the luxury of choosing good men and not marrying for survival. That makes it hard on guys who are undesirable.
Some men want women to be dependent and obedient. They think a man is a man if he is the bread winner, but women should give up their independence, colleagues, status, and sense of accomplishment, in order to serve their partners. But would those men compromise?
It hurts some men's egos if their partner makes more than them.
If a woman is surviving well on her own and chooses me for a partner, it means that she WANTS to be with me. She doesn't NEED anything from me besides a relationship.
That's what I'm looking for.
Honestly I don’t know if this is the same in every situation but I was with someone who never really supported the fact I had a career and didn’t really care about it. Only his job really mattered to him, which he proved multiple times by what he said and how he acted. His family came off a bit the same way and also thought it was my duty to just stay home and cook and clean but not use what I went to school for and worked hard to earn. It was almost like a committed a crime by saying he should clean and maintain the house sometimes too😅 Also he didn’t have a degree himself so that was also probably a factor, so honestly I’ve felt what your saying in your comment. A man should def value a woman who is driven and doesn’t need him but wants him. Some need to put down their egos a bit and don’t realize how this will turn off a driven woman. It’s not even about wanting to be dominating it’s just wanting more for yourself at the end of the day and wanting your partner to also want more for you too than just depending on them.
@nspencer they won't compromise. high status men will never compromise to a female who thinks she doesn't need a man. a women who has that strong masculine energy will never be attractive to men in general unless he has that strong feminine energy. High status dudes are dating girls who probably work at mcds or burger king or who is a nanny. Men dont give a dam if a girl is living with there parents or if she about to go homeless. girls who are not high demand. our values are different. High status men want a girl who can come home and care and love for their man. Not treat him like he is less. the nature is for a man to feel like a man to protect his women and his offspring and women to feel like a women. Just because women didn't have rights back in the early 1950s doesn't mean life is the same today. its like they think we will go back in time. Yes you can work and you have more rights but that doesn't have to do anything with relationships today. Women before could live with family and never go homeless if she didn't need a man. no one forced women to find a dude. she could still die alone with never even creating a family.
@chicosuave Lmaoo what your saying is such BS. I have literally seen people of equal “high status” work out fine. High status men will absolutely be also attracted to high status females. Rarely do “low status” men work with high status females cause they end up trying to bring her down to his level or his ego gets in the way. Generally people value education if they have it themselves, cause they also value the work that goes into it. But yeah if a male is going to be a baby about the fact his woman has more education or a better job then him he should just go for the woman that has no career goals🤷🏼♀️
@nspencer you are completely wrong. you just dont like to hear the reality and only want to hear what you expect. sure a women can want all this things about a man but a man doesn't care at all what status the women is in. you dont understand the values men have. listen to andrew tate and to men of high caliber and they will tell you. sure you can shame men all you want for wanting those things but you can't do anything about it. Men dont care if you make more money then they do or if you are super poor. men do not value the status of a women. only women value status and class. i dont think you will never understand it.
@chicosuave honestly dude you don’t live in reality I have said what I have seen in real life🤷🏼♀️ Not just what some sexist men say a woman should be like. It’s 2022 lol women all over are even doctors and lawyers with husbands and kids
nspencer is right.
I never wanted a woman who was a submissive, obedient pet. I never wanted a woman who NEEDED a man to survive. Men who do are either weak and insecure or narcissistic. They think men have to be dominant, especially toward women. And they are looking for women who believe they are inferior to men. How sad.
Liliam - sure if you like the masculinity in women then good for you. not all men are equal but you can't control mens nature neither we can't control yours. neither can women. that's why there's a huge debate about this. why is that society is trying to put men in one box? shaming men because of their nature. telling them to do this and not do that. Women are crying because they are ending up single but cheering to independence like if they were forced to be in a relationship. no women has to be with a man nor is forced to date a man. they can date themselves if they want to. even women back in the 1950s weren't forced to date anyone but they acted like if there were. I look at women's actions but never to what they say. they are the ones who decided to end up with men in the first place. no one has placed a gun on women to date abusers or men who ruined it in the passed for us. now the kids are paying the consequences of what our fathers reaped.
@chicosuave the fact you say a woman pursuing a career is masculine is sexist af. Also with two good salary’s in a household what a power couple! Two people in a relationship should be a team supporting each other on things each want to do. If any man is threatened by a woman’s mind they aren’t a real man sorry🤷🏼♀️ Loving someone is wanting what’s best for them as a person too not just what makes you feel better about yourself. Ego shouldn’t play a role in a genuine partnership. A woman wanting you without depending on you for money because she truly loves you is so much more valuable and real. Unfortunately you don’t see that cause your caught up in your sexist views that is a woman should depend on a man. Again people need to stop inflicting sexist views on people it’s 2022.
@nspencer. You're right once again.
chicosuave is one mixed up dude. I can't begin to address the nonsensical statements.
What is this thing about masculine women? Women can be capable of supporting themselves and still be very feminine. Even girly girls can be independent. They can make great partners.
Unfortunately, weak men don't want to be partners, they want to be bosses.
@Lliam yep. I’m pretty girly I would say and a lot women I went to school with are pretty girly and have degrees. I know a couple where the guy legit moved with her to get her masters and he found a job in that area. And after she finished the two yr program they moved back to their hometown got married and have kids. There was so much love in that relationship they both supported each other. Not every guy has to do such a thing but I don't know compromise in a man is so attractive to me too. Both should support whatever the other wants to do in their career.
That word "independent" I find unattractive from women. It's like throwing it in our faces that you're proud of being self sufficient and gives me a big vibe you're ok staying single. Providing for yourself successfully on your own is a good thing... But every adult should do this by default and it isn't really something to show off about. It's a normal everyday life of adults or should be.
I own my house and live alone but never use that independent word. I just tell people I'm a home owner, single, and have been looking for that one woman for me majority of my life. That's actually saying I want a woman. Not throwing it in your faces I'm "independent", giving you that vibe that I don't need or want a woman.
"Never said we don’t need you never said we don’t want you we just have to go on."
Unfortunately that's where I have to disagree.. Plenty of women have said that.. In fact it's now sort of a slogan and meme.. Nothing wrong with a self sufficient woman.. In fact most men like self sufficient women.. But when women feel like they don't need a man, then the respect that usually skiddadles along with that feeling.. They lose the respect women need to actually love a man.. Independence is not a problem, feeling like you don't need nobody (especially a man) is.
We WANT you to be fully functioning adults! We never said you couldn't or shouldn't! 🤷
I think you're confused.
The POINT is that these days a lot of women are pursuing their career goals at the EXPENSE of their relationship goals. When what they should be doing is BOTH.
I think people forget that contraception exists. They think that getting married automatically means babies.
I think the dating system is more complicated than the question you're asking. We are a lot more picky when it comes to selecting men. Being more economically independent, and social media (and marketing in general) exposing us to higher standards (which are mostly unrealistic). The Liberal agenda has also turned men and women into behaviors that are less attractive to each other. The risks associated with serious relationships and marriage is much higher now too... broken families are very very common now, along with messy financial divorces. We are increasingly distracted by sex (I know people who have had sex vacations to sleep with Black men), so lack the values to make a relationship last long-term. Although men and women still want each other, a lot of people voluntarily choose to be single because all of the above is in the "too hard" basket. All of the above comes from a deliberate Marxist agenda to divide and control.
here's the problem with todays society. Women say they dont need a man right. Ok cool nice. We give you props and hope that you can grow old with no need of any other male counterpart. you are happier then any other human being in the world. good for you. but then dont complain when you make more money then the man and expect more from him. once that happens the relationship is over. When girls think like that, it means she does need a man and she needs a man who makes more then she does. its all reverse psychology. women say that because its all ego based. We dont live in the 1950s anymore. women have to get off that mentality and move on. What makes them think we will come back to it?
Is this the current state of things? Because a woman can take care of herself, this means she doesn't need a man?
She just doesn't need a man to pay the bills. All the rest is open to debate.
Usually when I hear a woman say "I don't need no man" it usually sounds like she's saying that men aren't worth her time in my opinion. Plus, a lot of women who say that tend to be a little misandrist, so... yeah.
That’s exactly what a lot of guys think. Just like Jill Scott says the fact is I need you in her song
Not NEEDING is not not WANTING. I'd love to have a man to talk to, hang out with etc. I could say I NEED him to open jars. But I WANT him for Far more important things!!!
AND, I wouldn't make any assumptions about what a woman that you don't know means when she makes that statement. I'd ASK and get down to brass tacks...
I'm very independent, but that's just who I've always been. I like making a life for myself instead of waiting around for a guy to pay my way.
That does not mean in any way that I don't want a man in my life though. It would also definitely be nicer to split the bills with someone too. 😅
I easily adapt to other people's way of doing things, so I'm definitely not stuck in my ways like you'd assume for someone who is independent. At least not yet anyway.
If a woman is independent by circumstance but says she both wants and needs a man then we love that. If she loudly proclaims that she is independent, then she is acting in the same way as many such women who also treat men pretty terribly.
What if you’re loudly claiming that you are and still want one.
You're asking the wrong question. Instead it should be:
"Why do some people think adults can only function when dependent on other adults?"
The answer is "shitty entitlement, and blowhard narcissism"
Some people just BELIEVE they are the centre of your world, but you just don't know it yet.
I blame Americans, and their shitty way of doing business.
Many young women now days don’t want stability, they are after the hottest guy in the bar.
Many women also pick and choose when they would like to be treated as a woman.
Standing while she takes her seat
Opening doors
Walking kerb side
Romantic gestures
YOU ARE NOT GETTING THIS TREATMENT IF YOUR THE LADETTE ABOUT TOWN !
because their definition of a woman is someone who can't survive without a man. these are very sexist, chauvanistic, misogynistic men who still think its 1950s where a man must have power over his wife, lock her at home and force her to make sandwiches for the rest of her life.
Men today never ask for demands like that. your probably still living back in the 1950s maybe you should move on and catch up to the year 2022. the 1950s was the past and its not today. plus success and relationships doesn't have to do anything with money. he or she can live separately on their own and date each other successfully.
Honestly. I love these women. Because I know. They’re not using me for money or anything like that. She picked me because she wanted me.
Obviously women want a future. Someone to love and be loved by. Children. Etc. overall some might not. Some men might not.
A relationship is about love. What standards you have for it depends on the person.
Probably because there's a lot of advertising/ideology/propaganda nowadays telling young women exactly that. That being independent means you don't need a man. Or maybe even worse, that in order to become and independent woman, you need to not need men.
I don't necessarily think that men think that. I think that enough young women believe it to make young men lose their shit and take their word for it. It's just that some "party" has to stop believing it at some point. :D
Thats not entirely true. Most non thinking men may feel that way because it questions their dominance. I dated an indian engineer- independent as can be, not afraid to tell men to go to hell... but she very much sought the feelings of comfort, warmth, and protection that comes with being loved.
The desire to feel love isn't exclusive just because someone is independent
Because before feminism, men have been objectified as house pillars, ATM machines, and they no longer feel needed if they aren't paying the whole bill or having a clingy partner. Or having laws to back them up. Men nowadays are more worried about parting with their assets than divorce itself.
Usually because the women who constantly say they are independent are also the same ones going on about how they don’t need or want a man.
That’s why we think that.
Also the whole independent woman thing can be both attractive and really unattractive depending on how it’s applied. I’ve met ones on both ends.
Women want to have it all and are never happy anyway. They want all the benefits of being feminist, independent dynamic and tough, with the government providing ever more benefits, rights and privileges, and at the same time expect all the benefits and privileges of a traditional relationship. Modern women are the worst.
They only hear the ones that say they don't need a man. So when they hear "strong" or "independent" they will think "o it's another feminist".
Exactly.
I mean, that statement in itself is revolting. It does not burn in one time, but burns slowly.
Kind of forces to redesign the mindset.
Frankly, I and my friends and most people too, do not care how much money girls make. It is barely the point of worry. It is actually helpful in that way.
What worries us is the statement itself. How is that supposed to work out?
It's because they want to be in control of everything. Machismo. Men do have egos and they don't want that to be hurt, hence that thinking. They are afraid of independent women. Some of them.
But, as an independent woman, don't be scared of not finding a man for you. You'll definitely find a man that can handle you. A real alpha.
good luck with that. high amounts of women are single and haven't found that "alpha" male. whatever that means for each women.
Short answer We don’t think this way. Probably a personal problem with women not willing to be self aware and blaming there independence for there lack of presence in the relationship.
I don’t think independence has as much to do with paying the bills and lighting a candle, as much as the mental and physical fortitude/ preparedness to combat life’s obstacles.
Why do men think, just because a woman is independent, she doesn’t need/want a man?
Because that is what we have been told repeatedly over the last couple of decades on MSM, films, TV,
Can you fault us for following the information we've been given?
m " There’s a difference between dependency and a dependent why can’t she just be a fully functioning adult "
there's also a big difference between real men... and insecure little boys that have not grown up
Because she's busy being independent. Have you ever seen a woman making the first move or put any effort into her love interest? It's rare even in women that need a man and pretty much as common as fairys and unicorns in women who make independence their primary concern.
Because we are not someone to be "wanted" but we are someone to be "needed". It is also the same for men needing women. Why do you even think it's move out when he started to become independent? That's because they don't need their parents anymore. It's not different if a girl moves out from a guy because she is independent which can happen anytime.
*Why do you think kids move out when they start to become independent?
@Aiko_E_Lara But I don't want to be needed. I don't want to be anybody's parent. I want my woman to have the ability to leave but make the choice to stay.
Then that's your mindset in this modern world which is something we are not even programed to be. Biologically speaking i'm explaining why to that question
@Aiko_Lara So how do you think the relationship between a man and a woman should be?
@Jamie05rhs Both are suppose to need each other which is what makes family and what made us populate in the first place.
@Aiko_E_Lara Try explaining that to any modern psychologist. You'll probably have a hard time convincing them. They'll call it "codependency."
Modern is not even something natural to us but we just adapted to it. And it's not even just psychologists i have to convince but biologists too and that's what their studies they. No man is an island
Right? You would think men should like if we don’t depend on them for materialistic stuff and we can bring something to the table too. It also shows we are with them cause we want them not that we need them.
@grega239 lol that’s ego though. Love is about wanting to support their partner not for only things that make them feel needed or makes them feel good about themselves, but also for what the woman wants to do and what makes her happy as well. When you love someone you want to see them genuinely happy and be able to use their abilities to their fullest. Sure some women aren’t too worried about careers but honestly that’s becoming less common. Women all over are getting degrees now a days. It’s all about finding a partner with the same values as you and who wants to actually see you happy not just get an ego boost for having his woman completely dependent on him. Generally men who are turned on by a women financially depending ONLY on them are pretty controlling. Of course there can be exceptions but yeah it’s a red flag if a guy don’t want you pursing a career.
@grega239 When did I say a man should give up his career for a woman😂 again your argument is weak and sexist and plenty of women now a days have careers and families it’s 2022. Men in those cases help out with the house and the kids as well as have a career too. Being a father is more than just getting a woman pregnant and handing over the money. I have stated reality and am done with this conversation lol.
@grega239 but he would be needed not just only financially 🤦🏼♀️ Wouldn’t two salaries actually take financial stress off the man? He should be an actual father too not just a breadwinner. Oh and thats BS too as many women are married with kids and have careers😅and your right there is still also a lot of sexism and your one who contributes to it🤷🏼♀️
If you need someone, then you are not independent. That’s why. You can try to dance around the literal definition of the word all you like, but it’s pure nonsense. If you’re truly independent you do not NEED anything from anyone, ever.
If she has all of the stereotypical things covered that men tend to provide, she needs to clarify to the guy of the emotional needs she needs him to still fullfil
I think it all depends on what they think 'independent' means. They may interpret to mean 'independent' in the sense that they emotionally don't need or want a man and are happy (or even prefer) to be single.
Like said many guys hear independent women make comments like I don't need no man so they link the two
And this is very sad just cause I take care of myself doesn’t mean I don’t want you there
No guy thinks that. Why do girls say that. We encourage you girls to be independent all the way. We despise girls that say this, and get mad when they have to pay for their own food, drinks or other stuff.
Generally women in her twenties drove off less attractive, less income men by saying they are independent , they don't need anyone (except Chad). A women in her thirties and decling looks wants to to attract good quality husband type guys by showing they are independent and deserve good men with good career prospects.
True, it's never said but too often independent women act like they don't need a man. So most men turn elsewhere.
Angry rhetoric from those who DON'T want (or, perhaps more commonly, don't want to be SEEN as wanting) a man, mostly.
Perfect place to ask with a bunch of insecure morons on GAG to rant. 🙄
The reality once you become an adult you have to be independent.
Man or woman, you're aren't a child anymore.
I don't think that way. But yeah most men interpret dependence on them as love. Also, if men don't feel that a woman is dependent on them, then they will feel insecure that the woman will leave.
Some men may think that, but I think that most men like an independent woman who can take care of herself, so the men doesn't always have to.
Mostly because of feminist extremists that say things like " woman need a man like a fish needs a bicycle." Statements like that often mean that if a woman is independent if can be assumed she doesn't want a man.
This question is really amazing. I really resonated with some of the answers.
My opinion on this topic is too under developed to really speak on it.
Because it's true sorta? I don't need a man nor want one and many other ladies I've talked to
If she is independent, she doesn't NEED a men. That's kinda a crucial part of being independent. But yeah, it has nothing to do with whether she WANTS a man or not.
...
Because in most cases when women are single it’s cause they’ve been through some bullshit and so have this shield up. Like a defense mechanism
Nope.
Would rather have one more independent.
Needy ones are annoying.
She usually makes it apparent. Or it becomes a case where she's just using said man to fulfill her other needs. Like reaching tall stuff and carrying heavy furniture!
Men think that because independent women ( regular adult) don’t shut up about not needing a man which just goes to show how little women of today value men
Relationships don’t function at their best based on need. I’m sure plenty of independent women want to be in a relationship.
I always sought out independent women, less I have to take care of.
I know many women who are independent. What about loneliness? My wife couldn't make it on her own. She can't earn enough or handle no one to bitch at.
Many disagree with the false fact that if a woman has everything she needs, she wants nothing more.
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