Should you stay in a relationship with someone who challenges your identity or values?

[HawkPerception]

Yes

No

[TheRealPepperPotts]

No. That's a great way to lose your mind, though! :D

I think we need to be challenged on our ideas and thoughts, often and respectfully. It refines our thinking and helps us grow. But when we are with someone, the only way that they can help us stay on track is if they know our true identity and love it. That gives them the power to challenge us when we declare that we are a loser, or an idiot, or a failure. They can say "Hey! That's not who you are. That's a distortion."

As for the values aspect, I think we can and should be challenged on how well we live up to our declared values. For example, if someone states that they are pro-life, but have never cared for a foster child, adopted a disabled and unwanted child, or supported a single mother through 18 years of raising a child alone, every one of us should challenge their true values.

But if someone simply disagrees with the stated value (example: healthcare for all), that's going to become an irreconcilable difference because the person who disagrees generally won't be convinced because they have already decided what their position will be. It will be a source of conflict every time a vote comes up. The values must be shared or very, very similar.

[blueonblack22]

There was a time not too long ago that while political differences might cause friction in relationships they weren’t always an ultimate deal breaker. And when approached respectfully it challenged both partners to think harder about their own positions.

But now people are placing so much priority on politics it’s driving men and women further and further apart. Singlehood rates are all time highs. This is NOT good for healthy and functioning society.

www.census.gov/.../sb-04-89.html

[blueonblack22]

Sorry wrong link fortune.com/.../

[TheRealPepperPotts]

@blueonblack22 Ugh, I can't access the article, but I can believe it.

I agree. I think more and more people need validation for their opinions because we lack a core identity as families, communities, and even a nation to some extent. Family is no longer defined by blood or shared experience but by commonality of opinions, which is a frightening idea, honestly. If we are accepted based on our conformity (performance) rather than our humanity (character), that is an extremely unstable foundation.

I don't even discuss politics anymore, and I change the topic as quickly as possible when it comes up. I think there are forums for addressing political issues, but there has been such a loss of respect that I see no benefit to talking politics in day-to-day interactions. It's become about "winning" the argument and personal validation, not communication and persuasion. Anyway, thanks for sharing that; it's very true.

[blueonblack22]

“ Family is no longer defined by blood or shared experience but by commonality of opinions, which is a frightening idea, honestly.”

Wow. I am completely blown away with your response above. That’s the some of the best insights I’ve read in months. What’s even more amazing is I was (please forgive me) expecting a combative conversation with you.

Also good for you for not bringing up politics. This is actually something I’m combating myself. About 10 years ago I had my livilihood threatened at my old job JUST because of my ideological beliefs. Long story but ever since that incident I have always had my guard up. But I got to stop doing that.

Anyway I hope you are enjoying your holidays. 👍

[TheRealPepperPotts]

@blueonblack22 Man, thank you for that! I really appreciate it. :D

Boy, do I hear you on that. The whole politics thing has gotten out of hand, and I think I'll leave it at that!

Hey, you have a great holiday season, too! :D

[HawkPerception]

@TheRealPepperPotts I believe it's healthy to debate politics and religion... to an extent of course.

There are certain things that are right and wrong and we should always ideate and help steer each other in the right direction.

I know that everyone likes to think that they're right, including myself, but that's why debates are had... to challenge one's way of thinking.

It is about winning to an extent. It's about who has more logic or makes more sense, or has views that the majority relate to or agree with.

I don't think it's wrong to shy away from those kinds of debates to avoid conflict per se, but I also think that if you run a society, it's absolutely necessary to desire that kind of debate.

There will always be people that get defensive and do it for the "winning", but you don't have to debate those people. You can debate the people that can handle conversations in a mature and respectful manner.

[TheRealPepperPotts]

@HawkPerception I agree that those conversations are important and that politics and religion should be discussed at times, particularly in the context of dating. I definitely do not think we should ignore what's happening or fail to contribute a valid insight where needed! I do think that political conversations online are almost worthless, though. It's so difficult to build context and there are so many trigger words and thought-terminating cliches... It's like trying to hit a moving target in the dark.

What I experienced was an environment that was so inundated with politics that it was affecting my attitude and physical health negatively. I know that probably sounds like I'm a ridiculously hypersensitive person, but the reason it had that effect is because the conversations were so fear-based. Since I am single, I don't have anyone to process those things with, and I finally told everyone, "Hey. I know politics is an important area to pay attention to. But I need to take a break because it's negatively impacting me to be this immersed in it. Going forward, I won't be discussing it anymore." It has been the most freeing and amazing thing, too.

I think that yes, technically the goal in debate is to win. I'm pretty competitive and I like to win like anyone else. What I have found, though, is that for me to feel like I have "won", I want to not just offer good points, I want to make a difference. I want to communicate with that person in a way that makes sense to them. Maybe they don't ultimately agree or change their mind, but at least we understand where we are each coming from.

[TheRealPepperPotts]

In order to do that, my first goal in those conversations is to help a person to feel safe. The reason is that the moment we feel attacked or threatened, the logic areas of the brain shut down and we enter "fight flight or freeze" mode. We can't process reasonable points even if they exist. My priority is to calm that area first, and send the message "Hey, it's safe to engage. I'm not waving a spear!" Then, once that is done, that logic area comes back online and we can have a productive debate.

All that to say, I am not saying to never discuss difficult. I just think it needs to be contained and in its proper place, and to give high priority to calming the threat centers of the brain first. Hopefully that all makes sense! :D

[TheRealPepperPotts]

*difficult subjects. :)

[GOLDFISH_smile]

If it's a respectful challenge, sure. If it's a disrespectful challenge, no. A good partner can challenge your identity and values when they don't add up—like calling out hypocrisy or lies you may have in ur own head about yourself (good and bad lies).

Disrespectful challenge is always bad tho, even if they try to make you change "for your own good." This is shit like gaslighting, insulting, pressuring etc. to try to change what you think or how you act. Especially without talking about it or about whether u want to try to change that of urself.

If u get in a relationship with someone, then the most important values & identity should already be compatible. You shouldn't be trying to change them as a person. Everyone can work on themselves tho, and (especially with good communication about it) a partner as a different set of eyes can make it easier to find where you need challenged to better fit values and identity that are already your own.

[blueonblack22]

Depends on what you mean by “challenges”.

I actually would welcome a person who brings up fair points, fights fairly, shows a good example in their countervailing identity, etc. In fact I dated someone exactly like that back in 2013-2014 (before everything went insane) and I miss her immensely at times.

But nobody wants to date someone like below.

And I’m not just saying that because that lady is fell off the ugly tree and hit every branch. But her personality makes her undateable to virtually anybody who even deviates even slightly from her extremely narrow worldview.

It comes down to arguing about WHAT is right vs. arguing just to BE right. Huge difference there.

[Ladsin2]

Probably not a recipe for success to remain with someone who doesn't share core values with you. If your woman doesn't respect you as a man, or if your man doesn't respect you as a woman then how will that ever work out. Are you going to force them to respect you? Then they'll just resent you. If your woman is pro-abortion, but you're anti. What are you going to do when she kills your kid? Etc etc.

If it's trivial stuff like tax policy, or who you root for at a football game then who cares.

[Crimsyjo]

I'll say no as on the surface we should be attracted to and respectful of a person's values and way they are if we are committed to them. The early stages of relationships are about finding this out tho so it's not like you get together and are perfectly aligned in every way. And both partners need to learn to grow and adapt to become better people. So challenges and values may change. Especially if they were unhealthy ones. But change should come from a desire within and not forced.

[HawkPerception]

Well said as usual 😊

[TagUrItM8]

I would say it depends. If it's in the sense of gaslighting and other unhealthy challenges to your identity, then no. But if the challenges they bring are healthy criticisms that cause you both to grow as individuals and in your relationship, yes. The ideal relationship is one where you both grow and mature as people and grow closer as a couple.

[HawkPerception]

Well said

[dustybiker2]

Depends. Is it healthy feedback from a caring source or a manipulation tactic. There is a huge difference.

[PeachyPie93]

No somebody trying to force you to change is probably not the one..

[bobby_bush_eater]

It depends, they could be right and you could be wrong.

How they approach the challenge to your identity or values is really important though.

[Dongie]

No! Screw that.