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Why was it a "sin" to eat an apple/fruit from the tree of knowledge? (Page 2)
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The "fruit" was only symbolism and represents the esoteric. It is the natural religion of "the people of the prince to come" - (antichrist) which was spoken of in Daniel 9:26. The "serpent" was also symbolic for one of the antichrist's ancestors - There were a different people here on earth before Adam and Eve from the land of Nod. The antichrist will come from their bloodline.
What people were here before Adam and Eve?
these are new age teachings and totally unorthodox. may God bestow beginners with the discretion to not fall for such traps.. .
@levantine99 what are fallen angels that are mentioned in the bible?
when Lucifer made the thought to sit on the Throne of God and become a God without Him in his life, he then transformed to the monstrous Devil, while falling from Heaven he inspired rebellion against God, and dragged many angels and archangels with him in the abyss. All those who followed him became the man and God hating demons aka fallen angels. While many angels began following Lucifer, the general archangel Michael stood between and shout out to his fellow angels to not lose their faith towards God and thus stopped the falling of even more angels. they say that from the total of angels about 1/33th fell. one theory claims that humans were created to replace that 1 batallion of angels that fell. when humans fell, they had the chance to repentance because they also had a human body besides a soul. demons are impossible to repent cause their evil is imbued in their incorporate body and entity.
Also the Holy Tradition says that while the angels could still fall from grace till that one Great Friday. When Christ was crucified on the Cross. When the angels witnessed that, they turned to Lucifer and scorned him for trying to lure them before the material world was created in his hell and that he was wrong about God. when they witnessed the perfect sacrifice. God sacrificing his sinless Son for the salvation of mankind. after witnessing that, they asked from God to make them imovable towards evil, and now angels can't fall anymore.
also demons DONT WANT to ever repent. they prefer eternal hell than the love of God. many saints and ascetics that encountered them prayed for their salvation and they were just standing there laughing in their faces. then the saints understood that there is no hope for them... .
"Nod" - The same place where Cain went to go get married once banished from the Garden of Eden. Also It is impossible for the serpent to represent "Satan". Satan does not posses a seed - People do (Genesis ch.3). "Yeshua the Christ" Came from the seed of Israel which came through David - Who also eventually came through Jacob - who came through Abraham - Who eventually came through "Adam and Eve". People have seed - "NOT SATAN". It is symbolism. The only "NEW AGE DECEIVERS" that teach deception are the Roman Catholics / new Protestant movements. They are totally unbiblical in the way they teach.
Fallen Angels had giants with humans. Some type of genetic mutation. Not the "antichrist". This is totally different topic.
Yeshua will destroy the antichrist - Genesis chapter 3.
Yeah dear Christ will win in the end. That is right. the giants issue is controversial. the fallen angels issue without a doubt not what you were taught. antichrist will be just a man from the zionist bloodline of Dan, that will have lucifer himself and many legions of arch-demons possess him. thats it. not some special extra-human hybrid, just a possessed man.
@levantine99 Correct he will be a man. Not a giant. We both agree on that. However not from the tribe of Dan but from the ones who destroyed the temple - When Yeshua said not one stone will be left standing upon another - (The abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet). The "Romans" did this to the Jews around 70 a. d. (Titus and his army). And afterwards the Jews where scattered upon the face of the earth. Many where Killed and enslaved.
Zionist are not true Jews by blood. The only occupy the stat of Israel. Zionists are Europeans.
Sorry - "The State of Israel".
Also most of the giants were destroyed during the flood - But not all. The flood was not world wide like most teach. This is what confuses people about "Race". The question how could Noah's seed berth every nation and peoples on earth. Not tribes - "Every nation" - There is a great difference. It's obvious that Noah's seed didn't in fact berth every nation on earth. The flood was specifically to judge those (disobedient) who came through Adam and Eve. The Hebrew word "erets" was mistranslated by most scholars. Whether purposely or not I do not know but definitely mistranslated. The Hebrew word "erets" in the Genesis context should mean "country" and not "earth". Meaning that particular country or area was destroyed. Some of us know this to be true because the bible says that there were still giants left on earth after the flood. Some of which were killed by Moses and his army in the wilderness and the 6 we're killed by King David and a few of his mighty men.
So the flood couldn't have been world wide as many people preached during the great apostasy. I use the word "preached" past tense because "personally" I believe the fullness of the gentiles have come in - spoken of by the apostle Paul. It's just my opinion but I personally believe we are now in the tribulation. Just my opinion though I could be wrong. But the esoteric has definitely taken over the earth.
Its considered a sin for the very reason that God said not to do it. Doing anything that disappoints God is sin.
That being said, it's not meant to be taken so literally. The story of Adam and Eve didn't actually happen. Its a story in the bible meant to demostrate the temptation Man has by nature, how easily swayed we are as human beings and how we can be decieved.
no young lady actually it was like that heavens were made for them Adam and his wife , then all the angels and saitans who were also servants of GOD at that time were asked by God to bow down in front of thw two , Angels did but saitan forbid to do so , Then God asked saitan to get out and saitan said that he will disguise the path of your humans. After then they were not allowed Adam and his wife to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge but as Adams wife was a women and weak hearted , she ate the fruit which was forbidden by the God to eat , but she still did and as Adam also ate coming in the trap of saitan , they were punished and were sent to earth , thats the story behind actually
2 things to consider. According to the story it was right there, thus God knew. If he didn't want them to have it, he'd have not put it there.
Also the word "Beguiled" when satan beguiled eve means he seduced her. not enticed her. Thus some theorists say Satan fathered Cain and Adam fathered Abel. Thus we have a bloodline of people who may be the spawn of satan. Even Jesus brought this up once.
Yeah, it's complex.
The knowledge was only that of good and evil. Because the tree was accessible and they were told not to eat from it, the act of taking the fruit taught them by experience how to disobey and be sinful while it's accessibility left them with a the ability to choose to follow of fall.
Because they were not ready mentally or equipped emotionally to deal with the knowledge, they went from knowing next to nothing to being bombarded with knowledge without being able to understand most of the knowledge they had gained. It's like giving a 5 year old a gun, they are physically able to use the gun, but they are not mentally or emotionally equipped to understand the results of shooting someone with that gun.
Funny, upon reading the comments I realized. This whole thing is a lot like the Matrix. You can eat the fruit and gain knowledge, or refuse and be ignorant in this perfect garden. I think the story was wrote this way to "program" people into obeying authority.
It wasn't that it was just a sin. It was because God needed to justify love. You see love is a two-way relationship and if everything is perfect and it's impossible to not love then it defeats the whole purpose of love. So God needed some way of having a gauge to measure the love, because he loved them but in a perfect environment there would be no free will because they could do nothing but love which isn't love at all. So he made that the one rule, not necessarily sin, because sin means being apart from God and when they didn't listen they became apart from God. I don't know if you even read this but that is what many theologians and religious Scholars speculate and I believe myself
As someone who is in a bible as literature class I'd say you're taking it to a new level. I don't think it's meant to be taken literal. God said not to eat it, but they ate it anyway so that they could be like God. So it's the lack of trust in God and that he would provide everything they needed. It was also their wanting to be as good as God and know everything. It all goes back to the trust thing too. In not having faith and trust in God, they caused their own downfall.
the answer to the first question is because he said not to and that the curse from braking this command is that death will happen. the second is more subjective but I think God didn't want Adam and eve to feel separated from him that he wanted them to be unashamed when talking to him about everything. I base this thought off of gen 2 25 and gen 3 9-11. hope that helps
Because after eating the apple or whatever fruit it was, all these shits have been happening in the world would never happen, and we would've been living in what exactly heaven is like - no evil, just pure happiness and joy and free. But nooooo we had to eat that apple.
They 1 disobeyed God's only command for them.
2 they lied about it and tried to cover it up by wearing clothes until God asked them.
When Adam and Eve ate from the fruit they became aware they were naked and covered themselves. Some may say we became shameful or such. I am not sure. However, a definite change did occur in the minds of Adam and Eve.
It is not that God didn't want them to know, He gave them all they needed and disobeying Him was the issue.
in islam adam has knowledge. the problem is simple. disobeying god commandment. because that was the test variable. so there is commandment, it's a test and he disobey. The test or commandment is for the sake of god knowledge. to fully understand His creation and then lesson for the created
knowledge is essential... in this case i think sin came later. like if everyone came from adam and eve then their kids must have fucked each other for the next generation to exist. my own knowledge leads me to have more faith in science so maybe thats what it meant
But then again god knows what you going do before u do it and he allowed satan to tempt them i think god know they was going eat from the tree he gave them the free will to make they own decision but with that decision there where consequences... and from then on man was gave the free will to make they own choices with or without consequences
My impression was that it was because they were told not to, was it a test of obedience or does having total knowledge take away the need to have a God - Mythology is sprinkled with tales of characters who compared themselves to Gods and were shown to be foolish.
Yes it was a sin... because God said not to.
Us as mere humans cannot completely comprehend God's plans.
Maybe God was going to allow Adam and Eve, to eat from the Tree of Knowledge once they reached a certain age, or when a certain event occurs.
But Eve defies God, and that by definition is what a "sin" is. A definition is fact. Don't argue facts.
"Adam and Eve
Sitting in the Garden of Eden
God said do what you wish
Except for that apple don't eat it
You got all of this here
I swear to me, you don't eat it
If you do I'll write a book
And make your descendants read it
But I created you, wired you
To know you'd always want more
Because after all
That's what the concept of Heaven's for
Y'all don't wanna die, gotta have that alternate ending.."
Wow... Question like this actually tells about how much people really know about their religion.
100 people 100 definitions but no one knows the fact.
That's how population is manipulated to be terrorists, murders etc...
And the religion gets blamed.
I know it's not the answer to question, and I can't answer it as I don't know the fact.
Lol.. I'm expecting tons of downlikes... :p
This is too perfect
In Islam we believe it was because it caused them to excrete thus they became impure. And since they were in Heaven a place of purity, they were banished to Earth as a form of punishment.
I think they were punished because they did sin. Because sex is possible in the heaven
Sorry what you mean by excrete?
@frc95 oh I don't know about that
@warmapplecrumble - feaces, peeing...
Thanks :-)
Well actually because he wanted to test Adam and Eve to see if they will follow what he said.
And why do you think it was the tree of knowledge and good? It was just an apple tree. Nothing more
Well do you believe that God is all powerful, omnipresent omnipotent and all knowing? Do you believe that God knows all present, past and future?
One more thing it was not apple tree. It was the tree of knowledge.
The Bible did not say it was apple or peach it just said fruit. Which is symbolical to mean probably doing something. This was to make sure Adam and Eve were able to decide. to. kbey God Almighty over anything else, no matter how good it may seem.
Do you believe everything is God's will?
I believe he has the power to change everything but it doesn't mean he's responsible for everything. We humans choose how to live and who we want to be. We can also want God to help us in this way. I also believe that if I was born I this place as the human I am there was a point and meaning behind it so that's why he wanted me to be me!
Well I'm not Christian so I don't know what's written in bible.
Ha ha ha...
tell me which part of what I said was funny so I can laugh as well
You are not Christian and you have not studied Bible as well and yet here you are defending Christian God of the Bible
Christian God is the same as Judaism and Islam God
And yeah you don't necessarily need to be Christian to believe a God exists. I'm Muslim. Akirathod
I just don't know who mentioned this "tree of knowledge " first. Because HEY Adam and Eve got to know God and meet him. and if you're Christian you know that God the source of all the knowledge. Will ever be any knowledge more that what he knows? he created us.
What is your IQ?
@madd4 - Allah is not the Same as YahWeh okay. Allah is mostly opposite to YahWeh. All is know as the deceiver in Islam by Islam. Allah was never a Father to Mohammad and he said 'am just a slave of Allah' hence he wanted to commit suicide. And many other differences. The children if Isaac are the ones who know YahWeh but the children of Ishmael are the ones who know Allah as their God. Ishmael and Isaac were brothers from the same Father only (Abraham). And he Abraham had other children too.
Yeah sure but the God they worship is the same. Isn't it?
I'm not saying these religions are the same I'm just saying they all believe there's a God who is the most powerful. @joke007
God knew that the serpent was in the tree and that it would lead them into temptation meaning that they would jeopardize their relationship with God.
But God let the serpent do it
@akira - God give them free will to chose what they wanted (to obey Him or the serpent) and they chose serpent over God. That is why we have this world that's full of wars, crimes, violence and hatred. If they would have Obeyed God Almighty they would have ate the other tree called the tree of Life which is symbolical for Jesus Christ. That is the tree of Jesus Christ, because the Bible says Jesus Christ is the Way, Truth and The Life. So God had to give us another chance so He sent that Tree of Life (Jesus Christ) here to Earth after Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden to redeem them both male and female to the original beginning before they disobeyed. Just read John 3:16 in the Bible.
Muslims and Christians may believe In a God. But the God of Islam is different from the Hebrew God YAWH. As I explained about the division between Abrahams sons. Abraham himself was from an unbelieving family before God Almighty (YAWH) called him to leave his father's house (leave his father's believes) and made him the father of many generations.
But if the God is all knowing then he would know the future it means what the Adam and Eve were going to do
God knows it all but He has to allow you do your thing too. You are not a robot for Him to tell what to do, when to do it and how to do it. He only suggest to you the best suggestions (options) and if you think you are smarter than Him, He allows you to make your mistake and at the end you will pay. But Adam and Eve were forgiven because they asked God to have mercy and forgive them. You too should ask God Almighty to have mercy on you and forgive you every day and to control you thoughts, will, emotions, mind and body and spirit. And to give you wisdom, knowledge and understanding in Jesus Christ name. Amen.
But if God knows everything then it means he already knew what Adam and Eve were going to do
He already knows what we all are going to do in our lives doesn't he?
God new the serpent will influence them to eat the fruit but he didn't stop the serpent
Yes God knows all Adam and Eve was going to do and all we are going to do but there is always room for change. Always! Adam and Eve c I uld have instead decided to not but they chose to. The devil or serpent did not pull Eve to eat it but Eve said 'it looks good and is profitable for knowledge' so she ate it. You too God Almighty knows you will do this but there is a possibility you change and if you don't He still knows what next you gonna do.
Basically God know two futures; the good one and the bad one. Everyday yih make decisions and it changes God's futures. So if God saw Adam and Eve will eat it, He also saw that they might not. But they chose to. God has to watch and see which one we chose.
Ha ha ha.. You are saying God don't know which future humans will chose? It means he is not all-knowing
He knows but still we've got the chance. @akirathod
If he knows everything we don't have chance. Just think about it. If everything is fix then the choice we make are also fixed and it all is God's will.
Think it this way, the whole life is like a movie and we are the actors and actresses but there's no scenario, we just play our roles the way we want and we choose what role to have ; but he have watched this movie before and knows what's gonna happen next.
It doesn't mean he's responsible for the happenings, he just knows what we're going to do. Akirathod
Ha ha ha... Thank you for enlightening me.. I understand talking logic to a religious is of no use...
Bye may your God bless you if there is any
Some will never accept the truth until it is too late, hope you not one of them.
Ok I have a few question for you if you can answer?
@akirathod - Will love to.
God created Man in his image then why Man has nipples which has no use in a man's body?
Do God also has useless nipples like man?
God is Man or Woman? If God is a Male then why?
It says in all religious scriptures that God is the creator of every single thing now if everything is God's creation then does that mean all the bad, unjust and unholy things are creation of God? Please don't say Devil or Humans are the creator of all Bad, Unjust and unholy because as we all know in the beginning there was nothing and God created everything...
He is a Spirit and there is no gender there.
I don't want long philosophical answers. I need small easy to understand answers
If God is spirit then if Humans are created in his image then we should all be spirits without body and gender... Yet in you answer you addressed God as He which mean you think God is a Man!!!
God created everything including humans and Angels. And He wanted true Worship from them all and God cannot worship Himself. So He had to let these His creation worship Him without Him controlling them to do so (He would have been making them worship Him how He want) and that would have been like Him worshiping Himself through people. So He gave them A Soul (Mind, Will, Emotions) so that they can worship Him for His goodness and kindness without Him forcing to.
Yes God is A Spirit and we are 'spirit, in a soul, that possess a body'. We have the breathe of God in us. From the beginning He breathed in His Nostrils and man became living. I say He because He is A Father but not to be seen as man's gender as human being. That is He is Male but not a man's gender. He is not a man to be classified like that. He is who He is.
So you mean to say God created us to satisfy his ego by worshiping him? Your parents gave birth to you they created you yet they don't want you to worship them but God wants you to worship him... What a self-centred ego maniac even your parents are better than God, they love you without any expectations
Akirathod why would you even ask God's will if you don't even believe he exists? There's no point.
I have a simple question ❓
If God created Man in his image then why Man has nipples which has no use
Pls no long philosophical answers only one line answer if you can
I'm even tired of reading all this shit. Hey akirathod if you are REALLY looking for answers do some research. I recommend you to read Quran.
And badness is the lack of goodness. Bad has no meaning by it's self
God has no gender and doesn't need us to worship him since he's perfect. WE need to worship him to get closer to him and get to know him more so then our souls will be in peace.
I wanted to find God and since I have spent 10 years researching... Please read Bible and Quantity your self do some research and you will know both of the books allow slavery and more then 18% of verses in quran are promoting violence in the name of God.. I have done my research you need to do some research now...
I ask you the same question again If God created Man in his image then why Man has nipples which has no use
Your questions here are a little dumb but I'll try. Many other creatures have breast, nipped and many others body parts we have. So what's the real question. God made man is His Image mean to have free have the Spiritual features He has. Animals were made with bodies before Humans according to the Creation and God Made man in His image. That means bodies were not the image of God. Because animals were made before mankind (let Us make man in our image).
Slavery in the Bible is not you typical black to white slavery. They (slaves) had genuine rights and the masters would be punished if they were transgressed. You read this and tell me what you read: Exodus 21:1-32 in the Bible.
If Bible says Slavery is ok in any manner then Bible is not the Book of God
According to biological ideas of creation all of the creatures are somehow in a row of existence. I don't know how to explain it but mammals were reptiles and reptiles were amphibians who got genetically changed and they're body's became more complicated and it all belongs to billions of years ago. I believe in this idea. And yes God created us and the way our bodies were supposed be but rather than moving all the pieces of domino by his self he moved one and all of them fell in a row. I don't know if I'm making my self acrossed. we think there's no use In nipples but maybe there's a usage we don't still know. @akirathod
I think we shouldn't see it as slavery. More like love and an end. I think we need him to be complete so we obey his orders to live a better life. If just for 1 sec you could feel how much he cares for you and loves you would believe it all.
Laws About Slaves
Exodus 21:1-31. *Laws About Slaves
*Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2When you buy a Hebrew slave, a he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing.
*If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him.
*If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out alone.5But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.
Slavery in the Bible is how employees and employers are like today. You employ a person to work on your huge plot of land and you take care of their needs and you don't harm them or look down on them. They are married and have kids, you take care of the kids and release them After 6 years.
Any way bro, you are just wasting your time trying to find excuses not to go to Heaven. You will learn the Hard way. Ask me question you want to learn from.
Slavery was the way of life those days but abusing slaves was never permitted in the Bible unlike the Quran where Mohammad permitted his followers to have sex with those women captured during the raid who were suppose to slaves. Slaves means (you work for me, I provide your needs) nothing much more.
Don't even think you got it all right because you will be shocked. Slavery was work for me and take care of you and your children until the time expired.
So you are saying Mohammad was not man of God? As he allowed to have sex with slaves?
Mohammad himself said 'go to the people of the book' (Christians and Jews) for the truth. Mohammad was not even a prophet based on the standard used to qualify a prophet.
Oh!!! @maddd4ever is this true that Muhammad was not even a prophet..
Study the Hadith and you will know that Mohammad tried to kill himself because he was visited by a being that choked or toture him till he almost died and he was tortured even more by this being, which his wife told him was an angel even though she was not there to see it. Wlakada was monk who Mohammad and his wife visited to confirm whether Mohammad was a prophet or not and this Monk was a Christian monk.
Actually slaves in Islam were those people who fought against them during the wars. and owners were not allowed to have sex with slaves unless they marry them with the slave's permission. And if the slaves knew how to read and write they could become free by teaching 10 uneducated people how to write and read (Islam wanted to spread knowledge) . Mohammad had some wives and some used to be slaves but he didn't marry them for sex he did it for taking care of them since they were having a though life. Slavery in Islam was like this : they work for you and you pay them and provide them food and a place to live.
Mihammad also killed a lot of people who he considered apostate during his raid and Mohammad himself said 'I think am possessed by a demon'. And he was depressed. And scientist recently found something really shocking about Mohammad...
Oh so slavery is more like employment nice!!! But does that mean slaves were never bought and sold because that is not employment you know that is like owning a person like you own a dog or a sheep!!!
Mohammad was the only prophet that traveled with sword and chariots, no other prophet does. From Genesis to Revelations, Prophets carry swords for battles.
Mohammad was a follower of Abraham and he used to pray to God for straight 40 days in a cave w/o getting out every year and one day there in the cave he heard a voice ( of an angel called jebrael is Quran) who told him to read a text which appeared in front of his eyes. But he was not educated at all. So he said I can't. The angel said 'read by the name of your God who created' so he did. It was a miracle of him. If you read his quotes you realize they couldn't be from an uneducated person so it means he learned all the knowledge from God via an angel. He says it as well. He was a prophet since he has miracles like this and Quran it's self is a book of miracle. There are hidden scientific facts in that book which nobody knew at that time. It proves Quran is from God.
@akira - read the rules in Exodus 21:1-31 and you decide for yourself.
@madd - have the Hadith before?
So he learned everything from an angel 😇 only he can hear and see and eveb after the miracle you described above Mohammad employed people to write for him!!! I mean if he was educated by God him self then he had no need for any assistance in writing. Did he?
Well you know what a person at the age of 60 marrying a 7 year old is a pedophile
Mohammad himself said and I quote 'if I am not a man of God (prophet) I will die a very painful death and my throat will be destroyed' and Mohammad actually did die a very painful death and he ate poison which destroyed his throat.
He didn't employ people. The son of his uncle EMAM ALI used to write for him while he was speaking Quran word by word out loud. God was telling all those words to his soul.
Can you listen to a songs while writing down every line without missing anything. ? no. I also can't since the song is going fast and writing takes time but ALI was an expert writer so he was so fast.
But the first verse of Quran says "there no god worth worshiping other than Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of God" what do you think of that
Well I'm living in a country where you study most of hadiths in school and I've never heard any of the quotes you say.
So you are saying the God gave Muhammad the power to read text in the air but then God was singing to his soul and God didn't gave him the power to write? This is all very contradictory
I am talking about "la ilaha illallah muhammadur rasulullah" in my country it is taught as the first verse which was told to Muhammad by God
Allah is the Islamic term for God. But allah is the same as Christian God. In Quran the story of Jesus and Maria and some of other prophets before them. Quran says that every time God sent a prophet the prophet was completing redeems from prophets before. So what Mohammad days is what Jesus says but it's more complete.
How can u explain Quran if Muhammad wasn't a prophet?
But earlier you said Mammals came from Amphibians and something like that... So what do you really believe " God created Man or Man evolved as it is said in the theory of evolution "?
My real name is Maryam but my friends call me madi and I'm the only child of my family. So if my mom says I have no other daughter but Maryam is she wrong? because there's also madi? Two names for one person.
Allah and God
Quran uses hundreds of names for describing God.
God created man. It's like I put Al (OH)3 and HNO3 in a plate and provide necessities for them to react.
It's like God made what we needed to be created of and provided good situation for us to exist.
That's my opinion though
HE COULD WRITE AFTER THAT DAY.
So you are saying Adam and Eve were not real?
They were real but they were not the first humans on earth.
Somebody asked Muhammad "were there other humans before Adam and Eve" and he said "thousands and millions."
Ohk so why Adam and Eve are so special
Because their story is not like other humans.
Just think about it
Adam and eve were living in heaven so they knew many things from there but we also know that first human beings couldn't even make fire. it took them many many years to learn to grow plants. Didn't even know how to talk.
They couldn't be first humans. If they were, then their children should have married each other to make generations which is so inhumany!
May be Adam and eve were first human beings who could think and get to results by discussing issues. Like first smart humans
Ohhk
All I'm trying to say is that science and religion are not against each other but they complete each other.
Joke007 I understand you if you think Muhammad was not a prophet bc after his death kings of that time who were against Islam made scientifist to write and sat fake quotes exclaiming Muhammad said them so then people would hate Muhammad. Now there are only a few books that we can trust for his hadiths
Dear Mariyam Science and Religion can never complement each other as Science only believe in facts and evidence and Religion believes in existence of God whose existence can not be proven
I think it can be proven.
Even imagining all of this world including stars, planets and animals were made w/o any reason and goal and not under any power doesn't make sense to me.
And any of your fairy tales don't make any sense to me. I don't need the carrot of Heaven to be a nice person.
And I'm not begging you to believe in my opinion. You asked and I answered.
That's such a disappointment that I wasted my time explaining all this. Akirathod
Feeling is mutual my friend
Because for me it is really difficult to believe in a God who would let his children suffer in hell
@madd4 - hey it is stated in Sahih Bukari vol.1 book 1 Hadith 3; *The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read. The Prophet added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, 'I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?' Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read!
@madd - Angels are not violent in the first place and especially not towards the prophet of God Almighty. The Bible says 'touch not my anointed and do my prophet no harm.' That clearly tells it was not an angel. And Mohammad went home scared to death and said to his wife: ""Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, "I fear that something may happen to me." Khadija replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones." Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the PreIslamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters.
@madd - did you get it? Mohammad himself knew something was wrong with him after that encounter and was being tormented. Compare this with Angel Gabriel's appearance to Mary (Jesus Earthly mother) and you will see, Angel Gabriel told Mary 'do not be afraid' and did not touch Mary with any kind of violence and In addition Mary went Home one of the Happiest woman on the planet. Mohammad went home one of the most depressed and saddest man that ever lived on Earth and was so depressed that he said I think am demon possessed and my people are going to mock me. So he (Mohammad) wanted to hide his shame and commit suicide many times.
@akira - God will let Human beings go to hell because they reject Him as their Father. So if you say there is no God. I came here by accident and there is no creator; it is equivalent to saying God is not my Father and I don't need Him. So if God says He is not going to let you into Heaven, it is because you rejected His offer long time ago (to let you in). Your free will should not be used to reject God Almighty Son Jesus Christ who paid the price for Adam and Eve's sin and your present day sins.
@akira - reject Jesus and it equivalent to saying the devil will save me, I don't need Jesus Christ to. And God is not going to force you to accept Him either. You make your choice you suffer the consequences. You need to accept the truth as it is and accept Jesus as Your Lord (Master) and Savior. Else God will judge you and find you guilty ofcourse.
Ha ha ha... if you are right then out of 7 billion humans on earth about 5.5 billion humans will burn in hell!!!
Of course. But those who have not known won't burn in hell but will be judged on a different standard.
So you are saying God will burn 5.5 billion people in hell for not accepting Jesus as the saviour and God still loves me and God loves everyone else as well
Do you know how many people are already there burning and weeping.
You are telling me that I will burn in hell even if I am a good human but since I don't think Jesus was God's son I will burn in Hell
If you get the message (the Gospel) and consciously reject Jesus the tree of Life and instead eat from the Devils tree again (this evil world) then you will be held accountable. But if you don't know who Jesus Christ is God will have a different way of judging like used to do before Jesus Christ came (2000 BC till when Jesus rose from the grave).
The God who burns and torture Humans for not worshiping is a psycho and a Maniac
Read the Bible and get the truth, am not here to judge you on where you are going.
So basically by telling me more about Jesus you are pushing me towards Hell
You already judged me by telling me that I will burn in hell
You can know and accept the truth now or... be taken by surprise when you die.
You are already living the lifestyle of hell. Cursing, smoking, lying, drinking, drugging, stealing, fornicating, lusting etc. Breaking God's 10 commandments is hell on Earth already.
But to conclude let me tell you if the God let's even a single soul burn in hell for not worshiping than that can not be God. Only Devil can contain so much of hate and darkness... So if you tell me that God is letting souls burn in hell then it means that's not true God but instead Devil disguised as God and in that case the books you read as God's book are actually devil's literature hidden in between few good lines...
I don't never curse, smoke, drink don't do drugs, I never lie, never stolen anything, never listed, never fornicated
@ akira - The Bible is the one that told me if you don't accept Jesus Christ you will perish. John 3:16.
Am just the messenger, so don't shoot me. Go to God and ask Him what is it you are hearing, and He will show what it really means. Take the Bible too and ask God first to forgive you if you have wronged Him and then ask if it is true; what the Bible says about rejecting Jesus as the Son of God.
@akira - does that mean you are perfect? Do we once again have a perfect person living here on planet Earth after Jesus Christ the Only Perfect One? Are you Perfect?
And you don't need God, study or follow any religious book or religion to be a good human. All you need is sympathy, apathy, love, care for others and live a life of a noble person... That is when you will feel that heaven and hell both are here on Earth
If you are Good then your life is like heaven and if bad then you will be in a living hell
You are trying to make yourself feel good but please dont. Get it right with God now. If a soul is able to tell God I don't need you, leave me the f**k alone. Why will God Almighty not let them go where they will be far from Him (hell)? When you die you lose your free will and there are only two places for a soul to go after death (be with God or be away from God.) Your spirit belongs to God, He gave it to you but your soul is yours. Some even seel their soul to get money from the devil.
Are you perfect?
See now you are cursing
Hey am done okay. Just remember you were told. And you chose to do what you want like Adam and Eve did. Stay blessed and be strong and be wise.
I am not perfect but I am a good person, I have love for every soul... If God is real and he is making people burn in hell then I will ask him to forgive everyone and torture me for their sins.. I wouldn't mind suffering for them till eternity
Am just expressing the insults God receive everyday form people who think they know what is best and God dont. That is usually what they say.
They say usually leave me the "F" alone, I don't want to hear that "bull c**p" and stuff like that.
Brother love and care for you, I consider the earth, the nature and the universe as my creator since I pray to them to give you love and care for you in best way possible. May you develop more apathy and love for everyone
Bye peace out ✌
@akira - That is not going to happen so don't waste your time. You are trying to replace Jesus cause Jesus already did that when He took God's judgement for us on that Cross. He Jesus Christ paid for everyone's suffering we just need to accept Him as our Lord (Master). Anti Christ will usually want to replace Jesus, so don't try to do that. Before you pay for someone sins or wrongs you have to be perfect from Birth till you die. And right now you just said you are not perfect, so save yourself and help others avoid hell (if y I u really care about them).
Jesus had to be perfect to pay for our imperfections and you are not perfect so just let Him do His job and you save your soul by giving it to Him Jesus. And you can also help others to avoid the wrong way and gave their soul to Jesus Christ too.
Look Jesus is happily living with God in heaven and I said I won't mind suffering for eternity. That's what I choose and even God (if there is any) has to accept my decision then he can judge me but I would ask him to give all the suffering to me and forgive everyone else so there will be only one soul burning in the hell and that will be mine
You are not perfect so God cannot do that. It will be waste of time pay for somebody's problem when you got problems too.
You take care my dude. And think about it.
Jake007 I've never heard of that book and I don't think an angel would press a prophet just because he's uneducated. But yeah he didn't know how to read.
Nahj_ol_balaghe
Sahifeye sahjjadiye
Arbaa_kotob
These are trustworthy books for hadith
Jake007 I should study more about your statements but I as a Muslim have never ever heard of the story you told and Muhammad being suicidal. The book you said is for Sunni kind of Muslim while I'm Shia
those two kinds of Islam are kinda different.
So that I don't believe in that story.
Does Christianity accept masturbating?
@madd4ever it says let the seed not fall on the floor, so masturbation is clearly not allowed for men as.. it's impossible to not ejaculate after masturbation for men.
Since I'm a non-Christian (and a writing enthusiast), I think of this in terms of what the writer (s) wanted to convey. They probably viewed knowledge as a vice because it made people less reliant on God. Therefore eating from the tree is a symbol of breaking away from God. Now I personally think it's not well written, even as a myth, but that's another issue altogether
@John then why are we learni g about it now (if knowledge is a vice or was a vice that will take people away from God)?
You just jumped to conclusion without studying the scriptures itslef.
They already had knowledge (knowledge of God Almighty) but not knowledge of Good and Evil which they exchanged by disobeying God's instructions.
Because it was better to not know evil, obviously. EVIL IS BAD!!! If God is good, he can do no evil nor accept evil. Therefore, wasn't it better for us not to know? Because without knowledge of evil we can also do no evil. But, the moment Adam disobeyed, he let sin into creation, leading to the terrible world we all live in. You have that apple to thank for every bad part of your life. XD
God didn't give them a chance for obedience, he gave them a chance to disobey and they did. To be baffled by the conclusion or inflict punishment would be stupid. A chance for obedience would be to tell them the good things to do and not mention the bad. Why do you think "drugs" as a concept stay hidden until highschool? If it's not a temptation, it's not a problem, but of course only humans and not some "ultimate source of knowledge" could figure this out. :/
The One Above All, said, "Nooooo, don't eat that apple"
And them Mephistos said, "Yessss, eat that apple"
Eventually they got hungry for apples, and them.
Then the One Above All said "Damnit! I told you not to eat those apples! Get out of this garden!"
So Adam and Eve, left the garden and found that they could have as many apples as they wanted, and they could have babies, but they were not the best parents, as one of their children ended up killing the other. Ohhhh the drama!
An apple is not mentioned in Genesis. The nature of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is not specified.
An argument can be that the passages in Genesis refer to interracial sex, when read in the original Hebrew.
Such a reading allows the following acoount of Cain taking a wife in the land of Nod and building a city to make sense.
Because religion is not about evidence its about obedience. Many people get that wrong and as a matter of a fact religion has very little evidence to begin with. When people say "well then how come they were right about this though?" My response is even a broken clock is right twice a day. In Islam you can't eat or drink with your left hand. That's an obedience thing.
Maybe that parent was saving that tree for something, maybe there was something real bad about that tree and he didn't want his children to touch it in case they ended up getting sick, maybe the tree of knowledge was for decor rather than eating. I dont know. All I know is, they ate the apple and disobeyed their parent, now everything is screwed up.
Thoose were all gods Apple's he didn't feel like sharing and adam and eve where being bad roommates so he had to kick them out.
Long story short Apple's are expensive
I have two apples in my fridge.. why do Christians continue to eat apples
God is stingy with his apples lol
I think it was God who wanted us to fully rely on him than ourselves for our own knowledge, and that God wants us to fully trust in him instead of worry and trust in ourselves. Worrying is because we know things, such as knowledge. If we know that we might get a flu, then we worry. The knowledge of possibly getting the flu makes us then frantically focus on ourselves and trying to get the answers by making flu shots...
If you wanted your child to follow you forever, wouldn't you Have to keep him blissfully ignorant to do so?
Whats the downfall of understanding good and evil? I do not see any. Truthfully I wouldve given them the fruit to help them understand, just as a parent must do with their children. If god created us to make choices of our own free will, why would he leave us with a blindfold before the test and lesson (in that order)?
I'm guessing the tree of knowledge grants us the mental prowess to learn how to make weapons of mass destruction and to make our own beliefs and values... the biggest argument with this is that chimpanzees are stepping in our footsteps right now, they now know how to sharpen sticks into spears for hunting and I bet their technology will advance in time. But chimpanzee didn't eat from the tree of knowledge 🤔
Knowledge is great. Until you get too smart. Imagine being 8 and telling your parents they're wrong about something. Wouldn't go down very well. I remember being in chemistry class and proving my teacher wrong a few times, every time I would get shouted at asked to leave for being cocky. God is all powerful and wanted 'perfect people' something he can't have if Adam and Eve are smart enough to ask why.
The tree was a choice, because without it, humans would have had no choice whether to sin or not. Just as you go to the grocery store and you choose not to steal, Adam and Eve had a choice. They could have chosen to avoid it, just as you choose to carry your items to the checkout instead of pocketing them.
So couldn't one say, that before the tree of knowledge, there was no choice - just God's will. But when God gave the option of tasting from the tree of knowledge or not, God granted free will. So regardless of how Eve chose, free will and the consequences of free will would have now existed in the world. So there was no going back, regardless of Eve's choice, since it was irrelevant. Free will came into being at the point God gave people a choice and that is the point? Yes? Or what am I missing?
@lizziepooh03 You're confusing freedom to choose, with choosing badly. The problem was that Eve and Adam chose to do wrong. The consequences were the consequences of choosing wrong--not the consequences of free will being present.
Ok, so let's pretend I am confusing the two. What would have happened if Eve choose right? Just so I can understand more what you mean...
@lizziepooh03 Then the Fall wouldn't have happened, Adam and Eve would not have been banished from the garden...
Ok. But doesn't the fact that they could have chosen wrong imply that free will and by extension, sin existed before their choice? So even if Eve chose right, sin or the possibility of sin still existed. Yes? And just because one decision was the right decision, that does not mean other decisions after that will be the right decision. Yes?
I think your understanding is not correct. I may be wrong but it seems illogical and/or naive and I do not imagine God to be illogical or naive. Yes?
Of course he's illogical and naive. If you look further and analyze more, you'll see that much more clearly in many many instances. Why should anyone be considered a sinner? Every person's behavior can be attributed to a set of circumstances and experiences that influenced him/her into making that decision. If a person was brought up badly then why is it his/her fault? And that chain of thought can be used on his/her parents and etc.. What about him being allknowing? If that's true then he already knew she'd take the apple. How is that fair?
@ajf04 It is fair, because God still let her choose. Which I think is the whole point of all this? This whole story/parable/whatever? lol!
If there is a point to this story then the point is that people have free choice and people choose their decisions and the consequences of those decisions.
You asked why anyone should be considered a sinner. Well, people have to live with the consequences of the decisions they choose regardless of their upbringing. Adults choose their own behavior. And have to live with the consequences of those choices.
Maybe that is the point of the whole apple/eve story? lol! Who knows?
But I have to say that you are more naive and illogical than @RationalMale if you believe people are not responsible for their own actions despite their upbringings. You are a fool. A fool with their heart in the right place but a fool nonetheless. :)
I respect your opinion but think you should read more. Much more
@ajf04 Ok. What do you suggest I read? Just wondering... :)
Existential philosophy and why not a bit of astrophysics :)
Being more knowledgable and knowledge doesn't necessarily correlate to it being good. Who's to say said knowledge didn't include a harsh truth? There's a reason as to why smarter people apparently tend to be more unhappy. People have this misunderstanding that knowing more will make them feel better, but it can actually be a morbid curiousity of something you may not want to have known in the first place.
"Ignorance is bliss", they say.
In my religion it's not " the tree of knowledge " it was just a tree a tree which they wouldn't eat from , a tree which symbolize orders and rules. It's just a normal tree
In my religion Satan tricked Adam and Eve to eat the apple because he told them it will give them immortality and ofc that's a lie
The god forbade to Eve and Adam to eat apple from the apple tree, but they were free to do everything except it. The satan was fired from heaven because he went against god's order. Then, the satan decides to convince Eve to eat apple from apple tree and said that if she eats that apple, she will be immortal. Of course, god was know all about that, but didn't interfered, after she ate apple, Adam and Eve began to hide private parts of body and then the God sent them to World.
The sin is not to eat apple, but went against god's order.
I don't know.
My father said it was because knowledge isn't always a good thing, humans were soulless just not aware of their surroundings sort of like a cat. then when they ate the apple they became aware of things like death, sadness, fear EMOTIONS. So God tried to protect us from what we didn't know.
Because they betrayed God's trust in them, and thus created mistrust. Knowledge is not necessarily a good thing, it is what causes wars, creates atom bombs, creates all sorts of undesirable things.
What? Smh
Webster's definition of sin: "transgression of the law of God". It had nothing to do with what the tree was, it was the fact that God point blank told them not to do something and they still did it. He could've said don't walk in that part of the garden and if they had done it they would still have caused the Fall of Man.
It is symbolic of course. The fruit itself doesn't exist. It's a euphemism for sex. at least that is how I always read it. And since they did this thing that was forbidden they were tainted. Do you want your kids lying to you and fucking under your roof? I think not.
John Milton is not an authority on the subject. The fruit itself did exist, but it was not the fruit that had any real power. It was merely a vessel. It was the adoption of Humanistic philosophy instead of obedience to God to the contrary that bore the real power to bring about the Curse. It had nothing to do with sex either. However, immediately upon being cursed, Adam and Eve realized the full power of perversion potential of each other's genitals, and that is why they suddenly felt shame over being naked.
See that's why I felt that it had something to do with sex. But I'm also wondering how the poet Milton came up
Paradise Lost initiated the concept of the eating of the fruit being a sex metaphor. I had to read excerpts of it in high school. Raw belief in entitlement to rebellion has always been the real issue, as was the case in Genesis. That extra emphasis on carnal indulgence was added by Milton, who had his own agenda.
It is telling about female nature. The story probably isn't true. It's a lesson. Women can easily be tricked into doing something bad. A good example today is feminism. Women are tricked into feminism claiming men oppressed women and even to this day women are oppressed.
That I'm not sure of. But if God wanted us to eat from the tree of knowledge, He would've had us do such. He likely did it for good reason. The same way your mom or dad told you not to touch the stove - especially when it's on. Unfortunately, a few people didn't listen.
Because this story is meant to order you to obey religion and authority without questioning it... oooo u ate the apple of knowledge now u r doomed. U should have stayed dumb and stupid in the garden of Eden
It was a "sin" only because they were told not to do it. Which I find incredibly irritating and is a big part of why I don't follow any religion.
Its a sin because god said for them not to eat it
@yourmad101338 Yep. God told them not to eat it because he wanted to control them and deny them knowledge. He wanted blind obedience, not earned respect.
You mean God wasn't waiting around for you to be born so you could teach Him?
Who does He think He is? The guy who designed everything and knows how it works?
Why should I listen to Him?
When I can listen to whatever I want instead?
https://i.giphy.com/media/hdN8FFzN0UEoM/giphy.webp
www.jeffrandleman.com/.../2-Timothy-28-760x506.jpg
When go creates the earth and a worry free paradise for them to live in they should have listened to whatever god said. Is that enough for you? Its not about knowledge. Its about being faithful to god
@yourmad101338 I disagree. I will honor a god who I can respect. I can't respect a god who doesn't share my core values. That's really what it comes down to.
Very selfish. All about you
@yourmad101338 If you think it's selfish to stand up for what you think is right. Then okay.
You think you know whats right more then god? Mmm...
That's what I asked him last time we played golf. He just shrugged and got all hole-in-ones. I don't know why I still play with him.. not fair
@yourmad101338 Yeah, I do, actually. Maybe because I was never brainwashed and indoctrinated with any religion, so I can think for myself.
What brainwashing? Do you mean teaching? Anyway thinking for yourself has done no good. Your day will come
@yourmad101338 We'll see. If it does I'm okay with that because I still wouldn't want to follow a religion that I believe is immoral.
Thats some backwards ass logic
@yourmad101338 If you're only loyal to something because you're afraid, is that really loyalty?
Nothing to do with being afraid. Just knowing why
@yourmad101338 If I was going to worship a god who I view as cruel and oppressive, then it would only be out of fear. That's why I don't do it.
Your probably a feminist too right?
@yourmad101338 In the traditional sense, yes I am. But that has little to do with it.
Na it does
@yourmad101338 I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
The real question is why would a god who can see the future and past, put a forbidden fruit in a garden with two people who could not comprehend good and evil right or wrong. Knowing that they will eat said fruit and knowing that he will punish them and their entire family tree for it. Kind of a dick move if you ask me.
Lol that's not the whole story. Let me be clear that what i said here is not 100% right, i can only guess and memorize since i haven't finished the bible nor remember it all. In one part, there were times some of the Israelites who are God's people, where they follow God but disobey Him while doing offerings to remove their sin (?), back and fourth while God got mad and forgave them back and forth, other stories were added in there too, God was tired of that so He thought anyone who believed in Him can have salvation, not just the jews so He gave His one and only Son to die for our sins so whoever believes can go to heaven... we have freewill to believe or not
@bleh012 yeah free will, believe me and accept me as your king, god, lord and savior. Or burn in hell. Your choice. You're free to choose
God wanted people to stay stupid, but even with all that knowledge we're stupid, so that's probably why?
Now that you say that I'm kind of questioning it too. ik you said not to answer this but it's because they disobeyed God. I think he put it as a test to see if they would listen to him or the devil
I think that's why too, but I've always thought that that kind of goes back against his "free will" thing? 🙂
@Mycatseth Well free will means that we have the choice to do what we want. We still have rules but we have the choice to follow them or not. Like we have laws which we are told to follow but we have the choice of whether we follow them or not
If you think about it, God is supposedly all knowing, so he knew exactly what was going to happen yet let it happen anyways...
Worldly things and worldly knowledge are of absolute sin. True knowledge and or wisdom comes from GOD himself. Thst knowledge and wisdom is not of earthly knowledge , but spirit filled wisdom and knowledge. Earthly is of the flesh , spiritual is of GOD.
Eve didn't want to hear because GOD said either.
The message is one of unquestioned obedience. Don't try and find what is right or wrong, just obey. Knowledge is bad, because it may make you use your brain and not blindly follow the teachings of the
church.
I don't believe original sin falls on Eve. She ate because she saw it was good for food and desirable for the attainment of wisdom, neither of which are sins. The "god" in the story lied and told them it was poison, so seeing it as being good for food was her seeing through the lie.
Original sin is on the devil for impersonating God. Eve was the original savior of mankind because without her we wouldn't have wisdom
This one i never understood, if i remember the story right the apple was going to teach the difference between good and evil. So if you can't tell if what you do is wrong, how do you know not to do it?
It's a story. Same thing as Aesop fables so while it probably has a determinable meaning, you could interpret it however you like.
1. Sin is its own punishment, not necessarily the original act.
2. Adam & Eve sinned before eating of the fruit by lying to the serpent (she said she was told to neither touch nor eat the fruit, yet under no condition did YHWH mention anything about not being able to touch it).
3. Sin is just another word for transgression.
Also, I'm going to suggest reading the Book of Adam & Eve too. Not because I think it's true/false, but because it does give some insight on the story behind the forbidden fruit.
Technically that story is made up by men, a long time ago. Any religious person that tells you otherwise is lying to themselves. They were trying to give answers that answerless questions. Personally, I don't believe it should be considered a sin. Why would god want us to be ignorant?
I personally think it was just a test of loyalty. Not to that he doesn't want them to have knowledge or whatever but above all to test the creatures he created
Probably yes, it's a sin
Because if Eve never ate the apple, women wouldn't have got the punishment for generations to have pain during labour.
It is Eve because of whom mankind especially women are facing family life issues.
Yet we can't comment on Adam and Eve because some still believe in them where as some believe it's mythology.
It wasn't theirs. Besides, given their laps in judgment when theu chose to disobey the the one who created most (ie sin) it was evident that that would abuse that power-especially when you realize what their motives were-self-validation and greed-god gave them an opportunity to repent-but neither accepted responsibly and tried to shift the blame
I think that's where the LACK IF CONFIDENCE started
I'm going to say God said so, but here's why. God was just testing the obedience of his creation, putting a rule in place just to see if humans would obey.
That being said I do not believe in God at all.
Why was he playing mind games, like some women do? That's not nice._.
I think it was more like a parent role. Same way you would tell your children not to touch something, but then they touch it anyway so you put them in timeout. Its not so much mind games, its teaching how there are consequences for every action.