No rude comments: What do you think of religious dress codes and how they relate to the world?

[t-8900]

Was talking to someone today (you know who you are lol) about headdress in Church for Orthodox Christians. What do you think of what this Priest says about Society and the symbolism practiced in the Orthodox Church? If you are Muslim what does a Hijab mean to you? Do you find these things offensive and sexist or do you have a different take on it?

Updates

+1 y

I am not saying that this be enforced on others, no way! I am just saying what do you think of the philosophy for the purposes of WORSHIP. Not for anything outside of church, not for non-orthodox, etc. Just for whatever group in concerns, in that context, only during worship. In other words the women can remove them outside of church. Like right after a sermon. It's just for posterity within the confines of the church walls really. Is what the priest said sexist?

[TrueConfection]

I don't have a problem with people dressing according to their religion as long as they don't try to force it ob everyone else. It's my understanding that the Hijab is not part of Islam and was invented by Muslim men who don't want to get an erection when they see a woman.

[t-8900]

💯 fair. I would never dream of anyone asserting their dress codes on others. I meant do you find it sexist they some churches have a dress code like that for worship for women? Granted as he said men have a a dress code too. Just that women wear a scarf. I think some women from outside th church find this offensive?

[TrueConfection]

I attend a church that does not have a dress code. I'm not offended by dress codes in any house of worship. I would follow it as a guest.

[t-8900]

Thank you for your answer. Yes I think that's a great approach. When in Rome. So long as it's not compromising your religion beliefs at least 😊

[TrueConfection]

Exactly

[Sam2021]

your understanding unfortunately isn't right about the hijab or islam. nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. the world is so obsessed about islam for the past 15 years. orthodox can become extreme. a healthy balance is right.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

I didn't speack whit you today, or anybody on this sity by this time today, so i'm not that guy "you know who", but i'm an Eastern Ortodox and i completly agree whit this price.
He mean you dress in the same way whit the comunity you belong or want to belong.
In society you are an individual and you decide who you belong to.
The family ask us and teache to dress in a certain way, the school in diferent way, our jobs even the churchs and clubs and so many other grups, institutions.
The price dress like that because he reprezent the Church and the Church ask to not be selfish, to not think you are bether then other and so they decide to dres extremly simple and same of all.
Because a person like bloo other like red and so one. This is the code of the comunity, that how they identifay whit the institution and not whit the self person.

[t-8900]

what Church do you hail from? Russian, Greek, Antioch? I ask because of your English. But I dont dislike what the Priest said at all. I am pondering becoming Orthodox but not fully sure yet.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

I'm Romanian, is the new calendar stile same as Bulgarians and Greek.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

why do you want to become Orthodox?

[t-8900]

@alexandrubaschet08 I felt like I was being called to that church tbh. It's a long story and something I've been thinking about for maybe 2-3 years now.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

ok, so what made you think so strong to become orthodox?

[t-8900]

Well I was raised a Catholic and you know how the scandals came to light about halfway through the Benedict reign. And it sickened me and I left. But I liked the rituals and ceremonies of the church. But more and more I began to question why the Vatican should have such power over all Christians. I dont believe that the Pope has that authority, not really. And the Church became a big money machine and political force and less about God imho. It felt... wrong and I didn't like it. As I got older I just noticed more and more and more problems with it. Then I went and tried out some other Churches because I live in the USA.

But I found I didn't fit in well with Evangelicals. I dont believe in their teachings the same as I did in many respects with say the Orthodox and Catholics. I feel like the newer and newer the denomination is the further and further away it gets from the message. And there is something to be said for sticking to sacred traditions in time of worship. For me I just feel closer and like this was something the Apostles did.

I know about how they fast and I've looked at their Monasteries. Plus I actually liked that the Russian Orthodox don't mince words and sugar coat things. They just tell it like it is no matter what the social norms of the time are.

[t-8900]

basically they dont change scripture or narratives to fit what everyone else thinks and what makes everyone happy. They follow what they believe is right, no matter what. That to me is someone very strong in faith. Someone I greatly respect!

[Alexandrubaschet08]

True, but the interpretations are still diferent some times, ther are olso this grup of countrys Oriental Orthodox > Georgia, Armenia, Etiopia whitch i don't know how they work but have the same scripture but diferent interpretations as well

[t-8900]

@alexandrubaschet08 yes I saw that one Monastery in Georgia. that one Priest he sings so well! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=locW-9S00VU&t=106s

[t-8900]

pre recorded version which is clearer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0CJxM3hm58

[Alexandrubaschet08]

In the East Orthodox Church the songs are not sing in that way, the core stay on the right ride of the church or have a special place somewere above.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7vvPXz-Qes

is more like this, thous are greeks.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

i think...

[Alexandrubaschet08]

thous you show to me are oriental Orthodox

[t-8900]

yes Mt. Athos the Monks are Greek... well they reside in Greece but to my knowledge many from around the Orthodox world pilgrimage and serve there! The process is VERY difficult too. You must be in good health, have all your debts paid off, have no other outstanding obligations and such. Yeah I looked into all this over the years. Believe me I have a soft spot for Orthodoxy simply due to their sheer dedication to God. It's inspiring and it moves me!

[t-8900]

private message me I want to tell you about something related to this.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

The Atos Mountain beloong and is administrated by Romania.
Atos Mountain is a plece where you can go for free 3 days to stay and visit, only as men, no womans are allowd ther.
Afther 3 days if you still want to stay they will give you work to do evry day, if you want to get in the church as monk or something like that you should follow some rules for some yares to be accepted in that way.
Some will be to have long bearb, be virgin, no masturbation, no wife, active and constant participation to all the liturgi and sooo on.
You need ther just determination, the rules you say are just administratives in order for you to be free to decide if you want to stay forever or just limitate time.

[AviatorTom]

I'm not in favor of religious dress in public. That's just advertising what a person is, and can create a dangerous situation... an opportunity for terrorists against your religion. In the privacy of a church, chapel, temple, or mosque, dress however you want... just not in public.

[t-8900]

yes i agree with these views 100%. Not for the same reasoning but I certainly understand why.

[CrazyGirl2]

I have no opinion on clerics wearing whatever the uniform of that faith is… Religion’s that force women to cover their hair, face, or body, I have a major issue with! The thing is, the women believe that it’s what they want because they’ve been brainwashed their whole life, that it’s just how they must dress, but it’s misogynistic when you look at the reasons (for one specific religion, anyway) women must cover themselves from head to toe, because to NOT do so might tempt a man and cause him to sin… so, maybe just teach the boys to not think of women in a sexual way! Problem solved, but they just figure its easier to have women dressed head to toe in a sack with mosquito netting to see through! It’s disgusting!

[Markm3212]

part of that is due to the words in the book. woman is made from man, woman is for man to enjoy etc. (please do not think that i believe this, far from it) but this is partly why its that way. when you look at the different books most of them are very draconian and man rules and women have no rights and this is why religious countries have these rules.

on a separate note its not just women, whilst working in Saudi Arabia, i wasn't allowed to leave the walled compound wearing shorts and covering majority of my skin e. g. arms and legs.

[CrazyGirl2]

@Markm3212 We know most religious “laws” come from (what we now know as common sense knowledge, today) I’m Jewish, so no pork and no shellfish, or fish without scales. Today, we know most shellfish are the garbage filtration systems of the ocean, and undercooked, or improperly handled pork could kill someone living without modern medicine! So having a religious law to not eat pork made absolute sense 5,000 years ago! Today however, the only reason to not eat pork is because of religious dogma! Religious laws in a desert environment requiring covering of the body? Who knows… the Arabs discovered algebra, maybe they discovered that skin cancer was only associated with the areas of the body exposed to the sun? When you look deeply into religious dogma, you often discover somewhat logical reasons for it (except for stoning gays, throwing gays from the tallest building in town, until they were dead, or setting gays on fire?) Even 3000 years after the prohibition of eating pork, the New Testament says Jesus told his disciples that nothing you put into your body through your mouth can make you unclean, its what comes out of your mouth through your words that can make a man unclean! (I’m paraphrasing) But perhaps in the intervening years they learned about the proper handling and thorough cooking of pork, and learned that when properly cooked, its harmless and tasty (to some).
Regarding burkas, I still believe it’s misogynistic, cruel, and fails to address the real issue… men lusting after women they are not married to, and treating women as sex objects. How about teaching men to be more respectful of, and towards women, and allow women to dress in something more sensible than a black burka in the middle of the desert… that’s just cruel! My goodness at LEAST make them white if you ARE going to be a misogynistic culture?

[CrazyGirl2]

@Markm3212 Make no mistake, I am not anti religion, I’m certainly not anti-Islamic. The three Abrahamic faiths, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are extremely closely related. I am simply against the cruel treatment of women in the NAME of religion, even though Burka’s are only required in a couple of countries. It’s not about the faith, it’s about those nations, using faith as an excuse to mistreat women, and convince them from birth that it’s what they want! When I was beginning my conversion to Christianity, I saw how easy it was to make someone believe that THEY want something when it is simply being pushed on them, by bigger, older, more mature men who can easily manipulate a 12 year old girl.

[t-8900]

@CrazyGirl2 WOW with your follow up responses, EXCELLENT! You really explained your point of view very well here. I am impressed and thankful for your efforts! I agree with most of what you said. You might ask why they would kills gays in those days and think, "well this makes no sense". Remember these are people from thousands of years ago. I have a theory that they believed that by allowing such things to flourish that more and more would become that way and affect the birthrates. Also even more important was marriage alliances! So 2 powerful warlords or merchants would try to ally through marriage but... if the guy's daughter is an open lesbian weeeelllllllllll that becomes an issue now doesn't it? So they dissuaded it as absolutely ruthlessly as they possibly could. Likely because of the friction it could cause the social order. I'm not saying homosexuality is right or wrong from a religious perspective. Simply put, I do not have that type of authority to claim it one way or another. Based on texts it would seem against God based on ancient passages, especially in the Old Testament which are very much a big deal in Judaism and Islam. As far as pork and shellfish that makes a lot of sense. But shellfish, depending on the kind is EXTREMELY good particularly for the male vitality. Oysters, Clams, and Muscles especially promote high potency in male fertility and sex drive. HOWEVER this can be a problem if the water itself is contaminated so that does make sense. Nowadays with monitoring and control it's not an issue... unless coming from China. Kinda think we need to add to dogma: No Chinese Goods for consumption.

[CrazyGirl2]

Thanks for the kind words, it’s really appreciated. Just as an aside, if you check my prior response you’ll see that last week (or early this week) someone asked about the purpose of marriage, and I did, in fact, mention that it was originally used as a tool to forge alliances, bring about peace, as well as for combine/expand land for farming. But again, thanks for the wonderful words of encouragement and support.

[t-8900]

@CrazyGirl2 yw and I hope school is going well and the family is good as always! ^^

[CrazyGirl2]

NP, school is challenging, and my family is as wonderful and supportive as ever! Thank you for asking

#LetUsEditGagPostsNow

[Aurora1010]

Catholic women are supposed to wear a head covering while in church too, the rule is still in effect but for some reason most Catholic girls don't do that anymore or at least not where I live. It's just the older generation who still does it.

[t-8900]

yeah I was raised Catholic myself but I've never heard of that one before. Very interesting indeed.

[AviatorTom]

I was raised Catholic and was always confused by that rule. Women must cover their heads in church but men must take their hats off. Why?

[Aurora1010]

@AviatorTom St. Paul mandated it and it's in the scripture, I copied and pasted this, it's from Corinthians 11:4-16:
"Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered brings shame upon his head. But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved. For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil. A man, on the other hand, should not cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; nor was man created for woman, but woman for man; for this reason a woman should have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels. Woman is not independent of man or man of woman in the Lord. For just as woman came from man, so man is born of woman; but all things are from God."

[AviatorTom]

Interesting reply from St Paul. You know, St Paul was Jewish (as was Jesus... surprise for many), and Jewish men must cover their heads with a yarmulke, different from what Paul says in his letters. Still confuses me.

[jshm2]

Any dress code has a purpose. Just because you don't understand it, doesn't invalidate it.

I usually laugh at idiots who pearl clutch about hijabs, but then scream about individuality and the "right" to make personal choices.

What they mean to say is "you have the right to dress, as I want you to dress".

[DizzyDesii]

I dont know anything about it. I've attended Baptist church since childhood and everyone wears whatever they want. Shit i wear sweatpants to church

[t-8900]

lol listen to what he says about it though. I wanted to get an idea of if you notice a pattern with society and how it relates or not.

[t-8900]

specifically the parts about individual freedom and the side effects we suffer sometimes.

[astraeaaa]

Hijab doesn't really mean anything to me. I've been wearing a hijab ever since I was 3, I didn't know what was it's purpose, why I wore it etc. I was completely uneducated. Sometimes I considered taking it off, but I just couldn't bring myself to it. It's all I've ever known and a life w/o it terrifies me.

[t-8900]

Is it that you are afraid of a fallout or that it just would feel weird?

[lightbulb27]

Seems out of respect and regards to me. but the answer highly lies in the individual. A lot of it would be social pressure and expectation... that's fear of being cast out or feeling left out. Which makes it... emotionally bad. That's why I appreciate freedom and when people make those choices out of their heart rather than obligation is best. But you do have to have some order in society as well...

Most of the outfits I find to be really boring.

[Andres77]

It can be modest.
It doesn't have to be "religious".

[t-8900]

Yep it's just the mindset or motivation behind it which would distinguish bit as such rather than physical characteristics.

[Sam2021]

People should be free to wear what they want. Respect each other at all times. Religious dress code has a purpose, each their own.

[loves2learn]

People have to do hear is best for them. I don't judge. But it is not for me.

[loves2learn]

*what (autocorrect)

[Uptowngirl88]

I group up pentecostal, Presbyterian, non denominational so I'm not familiar with this

[msc545]

Whatever makes them feel more holy and whatever people will tolerate is ok I guess.

[OddBeMe]

It’s always anti-women. Punishing them for attracting the attention of men. Maybe men should have more self control.

[t-8900]

That's not what was explain. As was said men have to wear certain clothes too. The priest himself has to wear the headpiece

[OddBeMe]

Every org controls their populace. Like schools and uniforms.

But women are controlled more.

[t-8900]

Some certainly do based on cherry picking. But the bible never actually says like a husband is better than his wife or that the marriage is all about him. There is a misconception about that among some groups that I feel causes lots of friction in marriage. But really the bible does mention real equality between both spouses. A good example is when people say the wife has to answer her husband's call for sex... what those same people leave out is that the very next sentence says the same about the husband. And if he is called he must perform lol. And yeah lots of guys refractory period is longer than the woman's so LOL

[OddBeMe]

So the classic line “women obey your husbands like they obey the church” (or whatever the line is).

Also, where are the women priests and reverends…?

[t-8900]

Well it does say that women are to teach the girls while the men teach the boys. Makes sense in many ways actually. In terms of war and duty you'd want men who are raised up to answer the he call for example. As for preaching yes it's true that it says that's only for clerical men. Still all go to their spiritual leaders including the vast majority of men. I like it to people claiming "men rule the world". A select few at the top maybe, but not the collective.

[t-8900]

All obey the church, men too

[OddBeMe]

Didn’t answer the question at all. Women are sidelined in religion and you know it.

[t-8900]

Really? I think I explained it rather well. So you think because they aren't supposed to preach that makes them secondary? I don't see it that way myself. Men are to give up their lives to protect them. Women are saints as well, churches and parishes get named after them. So not really sure how.

[OddBeMe]

Where in religion do women get power for anything? “Obey your husbands like they obey the church”. Women ain’t clogging up the Vatican…

[t-8900]

Nope you're missing it:

"21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. c

22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, His body, of which He is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her 26to sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to Himself as a glorious church, without stain or wrinkle or any such blemish, but holy and blameless.

28In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29Indeed, no one ever hated his own body, but he nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church. 30For we are members of His body. d

31“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” 32This mystery is profound, but I am speaking about Christ and the church. 33Nevertheless, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

to me just because a husband is the spiritual leader doesn't mean they are not equals in the eyes of God. We both have biological roles to fill and we are wired differently from one another. If you want everything the same why isn't the UFC just Unisex? Are there no differences between us in thought pattern? In biology? and how many polls have we seen on Gag where girls continue to say they want a man to lead? Its really apart of our biology. Nothing wrong with it and not oppressive. If you followed the scripture here the man is NOT holding his wife down but giving her reverence.

[OddBeMe]

And your quote said it. “Man is ahead of the wife”. Why are you missing that?

And again, where are the female religious leaders?

[t-8900]

@OddBeMe did you read the whole thing or just that part? I'll answer your question however

[OddBeMe]

There aren’t that many differences in thought pattern or biology really. Just fyi. Religionists like to point to “equal before god” but who runs the family in religion? Society keeps women down. It’s just a fact.

[OddBeMe]

I did read the whole thing. I guess it’s hard to see when you’re neck deep in the religion.

But serious… answer the f’in Q: Where are all the female religious leaders?

[t-8900]

@OddBeMe but there's enough there to distinguish us. There science to support that men and women do think differently. doesn't mean we can't agree on most things and cooperate. But of course, our species would not have lasted without such cooperation. But yes I believe you're referring to this: 1 Timothy 2:11-12?

Society does? But religion and society are different? But lets just remove the religion for a second. What is becoming of female athletes and sports? What is becoming of women when we start referring to everyone as "chest feeders" and "birthing people"? To me that's actually removing female empowerment AND identity. women have their own set of superpowers all their own that men cannot possibly ever possess. Both men and women enter the gates of heaven. And there will be women who enter and men who will not. All have an equal chance at salvation and God loves His sons and daughters in equal measure. But just imagine for a moment in a time like the copper or bronze age where the women had to take on all the responsibilities they do now. Do you think we would have made it this far? I would say not because we were short lived, fought a lot, battled nature, etc, etc. Now why do men preach? Jesus was God in the flesh and a man and He appointed a man to continue His church. When I was a Catholic I treated the nuns with great reverence and respect. They had statues of Marry. They even had a prayer to her! Like the second most important prayer to Catholics IS the Hail Marry. Now I'm not a Catholic now and that's mostly due to like the last 2 decades. But I definitely NEVER thought I was better than a female Christian, not once.

[t-8900]

yeah I answered in that long response sorry. it took me time to type that. My hands are so cold atm that my fingers are going stiff... after 29 things started to hurt more lol

[OddBeMe]

Firstly, women get to call themselves what they want. And if they want to be called mom or chest feeders, I don’t give a damn.

But again…. where’s the female religious leaders? You say you’re equal in religion. Prove it.

[t-8900]

sorry if its still not clear let me know I'll try to get more specific i think i ranted a bit too long

[OddBeMe]

You’re doing the same every religionist does when atheists challenge their system. I get it, there’s tradition and in most churches, equality is probably easy to find. But the actual system is still man centered.

[OddBeMe]

When my wife discovers I bought another video game I obfuscate and bloviate my way out of it :)

[t-8900]

No I linked the verse man. They can't preach. But they can still go to heaven and receive the same salvation and His sacrifice was just as much for them as it was for men. Just because they can't preach they can't be equals? I suppose that's a modern take and I get it from an outsider's perspective looking in in 2021. But I honestly dont see it that way. If the most important thing is the salvation and if women can receive reverence then I dont see it as unequal, just equality spread through a different equation. All add up to the same total sum, just with differences getting to said total sum.

[OddBeMe]

Yes…in any organization, like every religion, if the genders don’t have the same opportunities…that’s called sexism. Why is this so hard?

[t-8900]

okay NOW I see what you're saying. I wasn't getting your point. Okay THAT I agree with. It is MOSTLY centered around the sons. But i dont want it spun that women are treated badly or that they aren't cared about or they can't receive the same outcomes or are valued less. I really dont believe such a thing, honestly.

[OddBeMe]

And like I said, most women seem fine with it in church. And most are religious.

But it permeates in the society. Religious women are why Hillary didn’t get elected. Not saying she was the best Dem choice, but 58% of religious women voted against her.

[t-8900]

@OddBeMe granted but I dont think it was JUST because she was a woman. many women downright hated her. Then you have like Christian and Islamic obligation (can't vote pro choice). At least not for most of us. I think for many of us ASIDE from that the Benghazi thing was unforgivable.

[OddBeMe]

Let’s not relive 2016. But the fact is…religious women voted in favor of a pussy grabbing man-child over a fellow woman because of the religious system they’re raised in.

[t-8900]

@OddBeMe I'm not justifying anyone did during this or the last presidency. I'm just saying that by comparison to many the alternative was a clean slate. You know what I mean? Like once you do something like that and show no remorse and the whole "What difference does it make" after those poor people died? I'm not saying empathy would have been enough (lets be honest she has none) but it could have been a start to SOMETHING, ANYTHING. Are you referring to the "lockeroom banter" or the allegations? I'm not sure. In any case I've not been happy with ANYONE since I've been alive. So for me... I mean we had HW, Clinton, W, Obama, Trump, Biden, and I found them all sorely lacking as leaders. I mean they were all screw ups in their own ways. Frankly the 2 party system is tiring and so are politics. I've given up on trying to pull this country up like that. If the American people REALLY want change and REALLY want what is good and righteous they'll do for themselves and this country. Until then? I got nothing to say about it lol.

[OddBeMe]

We’re veering drastically into Hillary vs Trump. And I could repost all the links from his dark last that (I think) are even worse than “Killary”.

But I appreciate you coming to understand my point. Most religionists don’t. Or refuse. And I agree that in general, in the west at least, church is pretty much equal. If we don’t talk about the Catholic Dioceses.

[t-8900]

@OddBeMe we dont need to go there to say that simply put all the information was not available to the average voter. Not everyone really pays attention like that before voting. If they did I dont think pretty much all of the people who ended up in office would have ever been there to begin with honestly. Hillary, Trump, Biden, Obama, Bush, look are any of these people really worth dying on a hill for? Not really...

[OddBeMe]

Honestly I’m with you. Most are corporate shills.

[t-8900]

you won't catch me arguing there! We need an almost complete reform of the system. I'm not a Capitalist or a Socialist. I'm not sure what the answer is. Maybe a happy medium between the two? No idea. I will freely admit my ignorance on such things lol.

[OddBeMe]

Getting money out of politics somehow. There’s legalized bribery of congress. That’s why monopolies aren’t prosecuted anymore because they gave a few million to candidate’s SuperPac.

[t-8900]

@OddBeMe that or doing something once a company or individual becomes a certain net worth or SOMETHING. or both? Something has got to change.

[OddBeMe]

Yeah… but I’m still wondering why your side elected the billionaire corporate shill if you wanted to change things.

[t-8900]

"my side"? I'm Apolitical. Most serious clergy will tell you we dont have a hat in this fight. At least among the Orthodox.

[t-8900]

not Orthodox just considering it by the way. Anyways as a Christian I have a hard time electing killers or would be killers. Thats just how I see the office these days. A place for a person to sit that has reign to kill people around the world.

[t-8900]

My life: Praying, Working Out and Dieting, Meeting certain goals, plans for moving, Dad and my friends, finding a SO, that's it. I dont honestly care about much beyond that. That's literally my world and I am happy keeping it that simple. else I'd always be miserable

[OddBeMe]

Funny cuz Trump got majority of religious vote. And I bet you voted for him, too.

[John_Doesnt]

Rude comment!