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Many of the people I know who argue religion do so from a position of trying to 'spread the good word'. the ultimate goal in that, from where I sit, is expecting to get pats on the back from 'the faithful' while on this earthly plane and an easier passage past the pearly gates once this life is past.
It's not laziness to lack patience with some people. In their own minds they are right, so little can be changed through argument. The same goes for you too; in your mind, heart and soul, you are right, so it is a waste of time to try changing your mind.
There are maybe 3 (or 4) outcomes for the friendship you describe.
1. You convert to his religion. Probably won't work for you in the long run.
2. He converts to your religion. Probably won't work for him either in the long run.
3, The friendship ends. You both lose a friendship, though are then free to find agreeable friends.
The fourth outcome might be best, though the hardest to accomplish.
4. You both agree to disagree, drop the religious debates, share friendship based on values beyond religion, and achieve a mutual happiness and mutual support based on mutual respect.
100% #4 all the way
"But reject foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they breed quarrels." - 2 Timothy 2:23 (Holman Christian Standard) This is key to me as a Christian. Don't get into foolish and petty arguments over anything, be it religion, philosophy, science etc. Because it will always cause bad feeling and lead to negativity. The whole point of being a Christian is to turn the other cheek and show humidity. Yes, at times we will have to stand up for ourselves, others and our faith, but petty crap? Nah, just let it go. Striving for Holiness is key to us. Arguing over trivial stuff just demeans that purpose.
*Humility.
Wish there was a way to edit stuff on here
I think they do it to find the truth.
I’m a person that seeks truth. I have an open mind and I don’t think it’s a bad idea to investigate or doubt anything at all.
I've always also heard that they’ve altered the Bible we all have today. It’s tampered with, altered. And that they hid the original Bible and the Original Quran alongside the real 10 Commandments of Moses from us “God’s People”.
That we’re literally back to Ancient Egypt, and God’s People are once again the slaves.
So yes, I’d 100% question and debate religion.
Religion is something very personal and every person is answerable to God on their own. The way some people will argue on religion, it seems that they are the ones answerable on your behalf.
As far as extremism is concerned, there is an extremist group in every religion. E. g. when anyone refers to al qaeda or isis as muslims my response is simply that they are not muslims; they are following some warped up religion that is definitely not islam.
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I say this can go both ways. Who started the conversation to begin with and who is the one more invested in it? Why did this conversation start in the first place.
I have seen both extremes of religious bible thumpers going overboard to those who are indifferent, atheists or agnostics to its teachings and I have seen atheists do it to belittle or mock people who do believe.
Now take what I say here with a grain of salt, but you seem to focus very hard on your perspective with these questions and religion in general and that isn't bad, but you don't seem to take the other's perspective into account. You come off as a very "my way or the highway" kind of woman that the second you see a disagreement or a difference in ideals from a "friend" of yours you see them in a bad light. If you are willing to drop a friend because of a "fight" over religion, what does that say about you? Was this truly a fight or was this a civil debate and disagreement that you took personally?
I don't debate religion, until someone tries to jam it down my throat. Three times in my life I have been told that unless I'm Christian, I can never be a good person. No matter howich good I do, it's Satan's doing. That shit pisses me off, so I will make people that say idiotic things like that look incredibly stupid..
Additionally I have been told that it's offensive for me to celebrate Christmas.. One guy told me that I was evil, that I had no right to celebrate it.. So I explained to him that the holiday that happens on December 25th predates Christianity by thousands of years, that it was decided in 325 ad that they would celebrate Jesus birth on that day to "bring more pegans into the flock" same with Easter and a number of other religious holidays. Prior to the council of nicaea the holidays simply did not exist as Christian holidays. It's also the same time that the pope at the time yanked 60 gospels from the Bible leaving you with what you have.
No I have zero issues with Christians, I don't even want to talk religion with people until they arrogantly push stupid ideas on me. That is when I show them that I know more about the religion, the history, and the Bible than most Christians..
1 Peter 3:13-15
New International Version
13 Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good?(A) 14 But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed.(B) “Do not fear their threats[a]; do not be frightened.”[b](C) 15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer (D) to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope (E) that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
We are to always be ready to answer for why we believe.
Well people fall out over difference of opinion and because there are many different religions there are many different opinions.
Them differences of opinions can be as little as your finding out that your falling out about but some people actually go to war about a difference of opinion!
The problem is some people are too rigid in there beliefs meaning they think there opinion is right and any difference on there opinion is an attack on there beliefs!
So if you want to avoid conflict be ready to accept you could be wrong especially if the information isn't a first hand account comming from a dusty old book.
Religions were made by people to keep control just like you have rules in your house.
Also they keep making new ones as you can see a lot that exist now didn't exist before.
They are man made and I understand the purpose of them and it works, however believing in God or any other supernatural is not to do with religion. You can believe in something and not pertain to any particular religion.
You cannot deem someone 'stupid' simply because they don't share your same opinion or believes.
What I dislike is extremists. These people are dangerous. Especially if it's a full group.
I enjoy debating in general. If debating religion I am either hoping for a new perspective since I myself do not believe.
Alternatively and more commonly I might feel a moral obligation to extend an olive branch to someone who is, from my perspective, a brainwashed member of an abusive cult. I understand that sentiment seems offensive but if I was giving up money, drinking blood weekly and chanting made up verses all while praising the divine spaghetti you would probably feel worried about me too and hopefully give me some degree of aid.
Now I really do not want to insult you. I know to you your faith is very important. Just understand that from us on the outside who are looking in, it all seems rather insane and unhealthy at times.
There are two topics which cause more division among people than all else: religion and politics. People are very passionate about their beliefs. Honestly, unless theyre a close friend or relative, I avoid these subjects because you never know how combative and defensive others get.
To put things in perspective... im not an active church goer anymore. My in laws feel im leading their daughter and grandchildren away from "truth". They intentionally look for things to prove im an abusive and controlling person to justify their church is real and convice their daughter im somehow evil for not living in the church. Its a living hell, all to defend their church over loving their family. Which more or less confirms why i left.
Cuz you know... thats totally what jesus would do.
I think no one should debate religion and everyone should be free to be whatever religion they want to be and I know people are confused about what religion to be
but it happens that way I just like going to my Father, Lord Jesus in Heaven and
I always pray to the Father thanking him for sending his son Jesus to die for my sins
Because I have researched it for 30 years or close to. I've been a devout Christian because I can't be good enough. But I've discovered that there's a lot of truth to it so I like to tell people. To be honest I love Jesus. I'm not going to lie I'm just not very good I've being in the Christian lifestyle. I'm always up spectacle and I'm never accepted. People either fear me or they try to make a project out of me. But I love Jesus and I love God. I know it's real. From observation and research. Not from Faith or some feeling. I've seen and experienced too much. God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is the real living God. Who also became a man named Jesus Christ
Originally not called Jesus. That is a translation. But the translation of the name has power like the original Immanuel.
I dont fit in with other Christians. That is what I meant to say. But I worship Him on my own. I love the "I am who I Am". I love that part of Exodus.
Most of them do I guess.
Generally it's extremists on both sides, extremist atheists feel like they're somehow intellectually superior to theists and extremist theists somehow feel that they're morally more pure. Both groups are equally bad.
Irrespective of your beliefs, you shouldn't have to constantly defend them.
It's good to understand what we believe and why we believe it, so that we can make changes if necessary. Jesus said his true followers would be recognized by their love for one another, while also saying we could recognize who who the false people were because they would not have the qualities of the holy spirit.
People can argue about religion because they truly believe in it and it's benefit. After all, we all have a spiritual need. The easy thing is to fight, but really, we should respect that each one has to make their own decisions when it comes to worship. This would be a good thing for you and your friend to do if you don't agree. He should respect your decision. In reality he may truly just be trying to care for you, as Christians are supposed to, though he may be over zealous.
I think religion is inherently divisive. Especially when people use their beliefs to try to control the lives of others. We would all be better off without it.
"Is there not something a trifle absurd in the spectacle of human beings holding a mirror before themselves, and thinking what they behold so excellent as to prove that a Cosmic Purpose must have been aiming at it all along?"
-- Bertrand Russell
And this coming from a woman who writes a dozen mytakes a day disagreeing with every religious scholar out there.
People will always interpret religious texts in different ways, for one person a line may be an allegory for another an unambiguous statement.
u For some, it is an ego boost.
For others, they simply might like to learn about and discuss other beliefs.
And yet even more, some may want to defend their beliefs when they are challenged or share what they have with others.
It’s because they’re extremists (not because they’re religious)
Just like how you get extremists who are Vegans, Sport supporters, Hippies, Cyclists etc.
They take what they do extremely and can’t tolerate people who aren’t like them
I never understood this either, religion is one thing I will never argue with people. I am not a religious person but I personally don't care what other people's religion is, if having something to believe in makes you feel better about things then, by all means, then believe in that! So If I was you id probably feel the same way.
It depends on your stance on the subject.
Most argy bargys I get into about it are when people actually believe there's an invisible man that lives in the sky.
@AndrésC64 Exactly!
No idea. I never dispute someone’s feelings. If asked, I will give my position on religion. I will comment when people make provably false claims about the literal truth of religious texts.
But do you say you are a Christian?
If you were you would love your enemy (Matthew 5,38-48, Luke 6,27-38), you would forgive seventy times seven (which means to forgive always) (Matthew 18,21-35) and always turn the other cheek (Matthew 5,38-42, Luke 6,27-31).
Religion and Politics have no place in friendship.
As for your real question; it could mean different depending on which angle you are viewing from. In general, people who argue, do not have the stomach to accept another person's point of view.
Religion is intensely personal and deeply seeded. Trauma, upbringing, family and etc are all big pieces.
I never argue with people who believe in any religion, as they have consciously decided to abandon reason to indulge in their fairytales.
Faith is the denial of reason; it's "don't bother me with facts, I know what's
right"; it's ignorance in the truest sense of the word, "to ignore".
Just because you think your religion is correct doesn't mean that no one else can't have a opinion on it. People just wish to understand or trash your religion
He is also a Christian but he keeps telling me my views on the bible are wrong and it’s annoying.
I believe you have to pursue ethical living and self-improvement and he says you are saved based on your religion and not on your behaviours or obedience to God.
Unfortunately faith means believing things without evidence. And that has affect on things like vaccines.
So you believe that a book that endorses slavery, stoning your children if they misbehave, poisoning a woman you think may have cheated on you to abort the child she may be carrying is correct and you call them stupid?
Sometimes they do it to be obnoxious. Have you ever read the comments section of the New York Times? You will see lots of examples there.
They do it to reassure themselves that they made the right life choices and their position on religion is the best for their happiness.
I'd say to a certain extent, yes it is an ego boost.
Yes and no. They are brain washed into believing a man-made false prophet.
Debating over religions is st*pid. Believing or not believing in something depends on the person and no one can judge that.
The reasons vary from person to person. Some just want to win debates, some believe they are doing apologetics, and so on.
Usually religion is a personal strong value that people hold which can make someone more uptight or emotional if someone hold a different belief.
Sounds like you’re gonna lump somebody out just because they don’t like mushrooms on their pizza. Try rewording your post it sounds a little bit pretentious.
for me debating the Bible isn't something i give much energy too, the opposite i love talking to Christians about what i'm learning that's in the Bible
I don’t understand it. I mean my beliefs are mine. They are deep, and they are very personal. Arguing a point of view is pointless.
In my opinion if someone is willing to end a friendship over a debate then that person was never a friend to begin with.
That's like debating with a person who believes in fairies.
You have to ask yourself what was your motivation for getting involved.
Who initiates your arguments about religion. I mean if you start discussing it, then you're at fault for the arguments.
Same thing that motivates people to debate that the world is flat.
You were part of the debate. What was your motivation.
@jennifer_bloom Some people debate religion because they enjoy philosophical discussions about religion.
I think that most people discuss religion to get understanding of their faith more, not necessarily to learn, most people are hyper defensive about their religious faith.
People want to defend what they know to be true. it is an urge to impose oneself on society
It could be a simple matter of facts vs. superstitious belief.
It’s either that or it’s very personal to them so they defend it aggressively
Hopefully, Christians would debate their faith with the ultimate purpose and desire of SAVING disbelievers with the Gospel of Jesus Christ
Love conquers everything Religion is just a way of life. God is love
God: Merciful? Maniac? Mass Murderer?
https://youtu.be/AqfGu6vTxFY
Well why did you do it?
Depends what side of the argument you are on?
they feel their right
I enjoy it.
God.
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