
Why Do So Many Online Atheists Care So Much About the Spiritual Beliefs of Others (Especially Christians)?


Why do I care?
Because theists don't exist inside a vacuum.
Their religious ideals influence the way they interact with the world around them, the politicians they vote for, the prejudices they hold.
I would also add, that what I should I do when I encounter theists preaching falsities?
Am I to simply ignore them on the basis that I don't believe it?
No - Someone has to offer the counterarguments for the good of someone who doesn't know any better and may be susceptible to the theists rhetoric.
Atheists don't participate in these discussions because 'dey kno ders a gawd', we do it because we understands theists cannot be allowed to go unchallenged.
Sorry, theists, you don't just get a soapbox - you need to actually be able to defend your ideas.
Even outside of that... Why wouldn't atheists want to help theists shed their superstitious poison? Religion drains money from people, gives them harmful coping mechanisms for dealing with mortality, devalues the only life we get and damages the critical thinking skills of people, (Especially children. Often permanently.)
I'm sorry that I see these issues, and my empathy makes me want to help people.
Why do atheists get frustrated - Have you tried talking to theists? Their religions instil so many bad debate habits in the believer it's hard not to. Theists will play word games, play dumb, switch their position on the fly or just resort to threats constantly. Theists are not honest in discussions, despite their interest in participating. It's hard not to get frustrated when so many are simply not interested in a dialogue, they only want a soapbox.
"I would also add, that what I should I do when I encounter theists preaching falsities?
Am I to simply ignore them on the basis that I don't believe it?" - CS
That would be one option, yes. There is no rule in place that compels you to engage them you know. As for "preaching falsities", you may have your own personal reasons for not believing what they do, but no doubt they think the same about you.
In other words, you do not have the moral high ground here, nor do you necessarily have truth on your side, even though you no doubt think you do. Theists have just as much right to influence policy and the governing of the country as anyone else, and have the right to preach whatever they want on street corners. That's what being a free society is all about.
"Atheists don't participate in these discussions because 'dey kno ders a gawd', we do it because we understands theists cannot be allowed to go unchallenged.
Sorry, theists, you don't just get a soapbox - you need to actually be able to defend your ideas." - CS
Ha! :D Don't worry about us, your "challenge" to us is like a fly trying to wrestle with a bulldozer. We can, and do, defend our beliefs far more effectively than you give us credit for, and to us the "arguments" of the trendy atheistic crowd is just so much fluff, so much white noise.
"That would be one option, yes. There is no rule in place that compels you to engage them you know."
I'm not proposing that I'm obligated. Only that I /want/ to.
If I want to challenge theists I should be entitled to, no?
"As for "preaching falsities", you may have your own personal reasons for not believing what they do, but no doubt they think the same about you.
In other words, you do not have the moral high ground here, nor do you necessarily have truth on your side, even though you no doubt think you do. Theists have just as much right to influence policy and the governing of the country as anyone else, and have the right to preach whatever they want on street corners. That's what being a free society is all about."
You're exactly correct - which is why we should discuss it and see if their ideas can withstand criticsm.
"Ha! Don't worry about us, your "challenge" to us is like a fly trying to wrestle with a bulldozer. We can, and do, defend our beliefs far more effectively than you give us credit for, and to us the "arguments" of the trendy atheistic crowd is just so much fluff, so much white noise."
This is just posturing. We'll see about that.
Lots of people enjoy “us against them”. I have the same experience with Christians. It’s more the type of person - not everyone into converting others using religion (or the absence of it). People do it with food too, you’ll find unsolicited comments under both meat and vegan posts by each opposing group. It’s just the human nature of some people, where feeling as though you are righteous is something they crave.
I'm not from your community, I'm from another country.. but I want to talk about atheism as an idea far from people's practices..
Atheism is a very dangerous virus if it spreads.. Look what Hitler did.. the Soviet Union.. China today.. These are atheist countries.. The truth is that atheism as a contradictory thought, for example, believes in the existence of evil, but he does not have a philosophy of good and evil in his mind. .. maybe one day for his own good, he justifies killing people.. there is no law or thought.. contradictions that have no answer or solution.. I remember one time I asked an atheist who left his religion because of problems. From his life and I said: Does atheism solve your life problems? He said: No.. rather, he increased it.. I replied.. Why did you adhere to atheism then?
Likewise, ethics have no philosophy.. For example.. truthfulness and lying.. and the principle of contradiction.. Concepts that have been implanted in a person without learning since his childhood.. How can atheism explain that.. Whatever its interpretation is, it is unrealistic.
1. atheism is often a cover story for communists. they believe in destroying religion to replace it with the state and thus communism as was the teaching of Hegel (karl marx's teacher) instead of the father the son and the holy ghost hegel taught there was the state, the government, and the idea... he was nuts.
2. atheists are unhappy people. and misery loves company
@OpenClose apparently its the best response
@OpenClose Can't you read? In any case, I chose this response for the MHO not necessarily because it was the best, but because I don't know much about Hegel and wasn't aware of his connection with the most evil man in history (Marx), so in that sense it was the most helpful (because it made me aware of something I had not known before).
The State, the Government and the Idea sounds absolutely abysmal. What a horrible, disgusting, anti-human "Trinity".
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well i personally do, because we are supposed to live in a "secular society", where religion and politics are separated, cause religion should be free for everyone to choose right? but there's several problems in my opinion:
1: why is it ok that the christian church has massive tax benefits, while other religious organizations don't?
2: how do we ensure that children get to pick and choose their religion? because due to the constrictions of family boundaries and parental rights, you can never ensure that children are not indoctrinated with one religion before they grow old enough to even decide for themself.
3: the church gets away with murder. i'm exaggerating. but this is actually so bad that it's a meme people use to make fun of the church. the molestation and sexual exploitation of underage children is an ongoing problem in the church. and what happens? nothing. a priest gets caught touching a little boys private parts and litterally nothing happens. they are offset or shifted to a different area at best, where they continue what they did. this of course is not a problem of "the christian faith" but rather "the institution of christian church" but i think we should not give them a free pass, just cause they are considered holier than everyone else.
4: chrisitanity is a faith. everyone should believe what they want. BUT you do not get to teach young children your "faith" as a "fact". that's a horrible mistake that is actually still discussed in the southern states in fucking 2022... creation has NOTHING to do with science. it is a fantasy. and it should be taught as a fantasy and biology and evolution should be taught as a fact, cause that's what it is. it's dangerous to confuse fiction and fact.
I don't give a shit about people's religious beliefs. There are a lot of Christian elements I admire, and especially in terms of the services local churches offer to small communities.
But I give some enormous shits about hypocrisy and especially hypocritical judgement.
Like voting for Trump because "he's a good Christian" is laughable. He is quite possibly the most anti-Christian man in terms of morality. No, you did it because he reminds you of your guy friends in the 60s, and you conflate your childhood culture with Christianity. Hence why American Christians are usually the ones attacking brown Christians with turbans.
Or not signing off on a gay marriage application because "it's what Jesus would want" when Jesus said nothing of the sort, except not to judge others. The bible does say a lot about your half-dozen prior marriages so you might not want to use the Bible that way.
Or saying the whole abortion debate is religious because "the Bible says not to kill", when you know full well that nobody is saying killing is good, and that the debate is whether a fetus is a human, which the Bible says nothing about. It only states life at first breath.
I don't give a damn what you believe. I give a damn when you use it for any ill will against others.
It's right their in your picture... You have the hammer and sickle representing oppressive tyrannical dictatorship. The sickle is a symbol of Saturn, the baby eating sister banging god of the underworld and death. Why would a Satanist, want to destroy Christ? It seems pretty self explanatory... The crescent moon and the sickle are linked. It's right in front of you. Notice how Baphomet is a tranny as well. This is why the commies push LGBTQ, pedophile, cannibalistic, mass murderer shit. They worship tyranny.
Don’t necessarily consider myself an Atheist but I think I still fit into the category. I’m purely spiritual — not religious — and grew up in a Christian household. My parents, my grandparents, my uncles and aunts, some of my childhood friends, they’re all Christian, and they’ve all tried to force their religion on me. I have bad experience with Christians so it’s hard not to get irritated when they are always talking about God with me. Sometimes I’d like to have a normal mature conversation without them saying God this God that and getting upset when I disagree with them about something.
I think it is this ^^^^. Most likely they have had bad experiences with Christians.
Yeah, but they say it is the other way around. Play the victim much. In real life, I don’t see many Christians shove their faith to the non-believers but they claim it happens a lot just to pick fight.
I'm an Atheist myself, but the problem with most idiot Atheists is, they have traded the SKY-DADDY God religion for the BIG DADDY Government Religion. They traded the Big G (God) for the Small g (government). They're a bunch of idiots on both sides, the Atheists and Religious Zealots. If we could figure out how to get the Atheists to stop trusting Big Daddy Government and get the Religious Zealots to stop trusting in Fairytale Sky-Wizards, this world would be a whole hell of a lot better.
As someone who is practically atheist, I honestly don't know. Sometimes I wonder if they have a superiority complex or something.
That's not to say those who adamantly oppose religion from being incorporated into law or other policies, but when people go out of there way to argue with religious people, I do wonder if it's just a superiority completely.
Religion is simply holding back the country and dividing us and adding hate towards others for not believing in the crap they do. That's why I'm atheist, you don't need to have a religion to know right from wrong. If you you need a book to tell you what's right and wrong or lack the common sense to know then you're just an idiot and have an issue. People need to stop assuming others are bad people for believing in other things just because it goes against what they think. If an atheist does something nice it's because he felt like doing it and it came from the heart when a religious person does it it's because they think it'll take them to heaven or earn them "good points". This doesn't go with the post but this is how I see religion.
I've seen a few battles in this site... and it is Christians vs Christians... and they just go on and one about who is the real Christian and who is not... which one is right and the other wrong... what it means to be Christian and what is not
if Christians themselves can't get it "right and straight" about who they are... then what do you expect from people on the "outside" they're more like to bring more of the same... lol
No idea why, same reason that people that leave various religions don't seem to actually leave them. They are obsessed with them after they leave. They cannot just let it go and move past, they themselves are stuck.
Depends on context. Imagine living in a world were you believe that most adults around you believe in an imaginary being and let it influence them. Religion influences a lot of things including government. If you had rules forced on you due to people believing in an imaginary being you probably wouldn't be too happy either.
Hmm... I've never heard off atheists going for to door telling people they should but go to church. What in see is that many religious people think their ideas should be immune from criticism, even when they make claims that are demonstrably false. I've never known atheists to take violent exception to religious statements, but it's common for the religious to become violent when challenged.
Atheist know the truth and lie about it and deny it with deciet to incript you to fall before GOD. The whole purpose of an atheist is that GOD is showing others about "COMPASSION" . Behold , those athiest know the truth abd lie about it to derail your destiney.
To be fair, in my experience, its christians jumping down the throats of atheists more. bit like vegans have to point out their vegan or that meat eaters are awful people blah blah blah
The religious are often the majority and most if not the entirety of the governing body, who makes the rules and tend to use their religious beliefs in doing so.
It's the internet and that's the thing to do. Though in general if you say you are religious or not, you end up being pounced on. Probably because you don't need to worry about things breaking down and turning into a brawl like you have to in person.
Because in English speaking countries Christianity is the hegemonic religion. Why would I rail against sun worshipers if there is like 12 of them in the country.
As for why care at all, I don't. It's the religious politicians ( evangelical Christian conservatives broadly speaking) that care about what others are doing. Trying to restrict reproductive rights, fighting against gay marriage and shit like that. If they mind their own business, I'll mind mine.
They want to prove us wrong even though they don’t have any valid reason for anything they believe is bad. For example if god doesn’t exist why is murder wrong?
what does God have to do with murder being right and wrong?
@whosnumber1 think about it, god said you shall not murder, so without the idea of god's existence what in the universe says murder is wrong? its not apart of natural law, as a matter of fact its more beneficial for you to say murder your parents for the inheritance then it is for them to live out there lives. now as a society that was built off of jewish-christian values we automatically believe murder is wrong, if we weren't built off of these values there is nothing wrong with murder. this is when you get into the realm of moral relativism murder is only wrong because society says its wrong not that murder in Inherently wrong
... your out to lunch brother. like ham sandwich with a side of fries and a milkshake
... what I murder wrong? I don't understand your question
@whosnumber1 what makes murder wrong? According to natural law which encourages self preservation why is murder wrong? If I can get away murdering my mom and dad to reserve my enhance easily then there natural death what makes murder wrong? It would preserve my life better if I killed my parents so I can get what they have why is that wrong? The believe in God would say because I need to honor my father and mother and murder is wrong then I should not murder that God does not exist why is murder wrong
I don't need "god" to tell me that
@whosnumber1 OK so tell me why murder is wrong? The only reason why you believe murder is wrong this is the same argument I got into it with Sam Harris on Twitter is because you grew up in a society that is religiously based off of Christianity that thinks that murder is wrong. Even said I’m Harrised didn’t have an answer to that he just blocked me like he did Ben Shapiro
see... I'm already bored of your logic and banter
i don't need "god" to tell me to honor thy mother and father and I don't need "God" to tell me that murder is wrong.
@whosnumber1 OK Wyatt is honoring your father-in-law correct and why is murder wrong, Why do you believe that honoring your father and mother is correct and why is murderer explain to me this according to natural law. Trust me are used to be an atheist I couldn’t come up with the answer
it'd because i have the ability for rational and compassion thought. no
@whosnumber1 ok what ractional though leads you to believe that murder is wrong as an atheist and where does that though come from? The Germans before Rome came in thought murder was perfectly fine especially if it benefited the murder, If you loved a women and she was already married it was perfectly acceptable to murder the husband and take her for your wife. This was the pre Roman German culture
Why do religious people have to go and force THEIR religious beliefs onto people that have never heard of them, before? Why can't you just leave them be to live their lives their way?
Because christians and other religious groups like to indoctrinate little children and keep messing with local politics.
Also they do outreaches and such, where they go try to recruit random people who didn't ask for it either. So don't play them to be so innocent.
Because religion has caused so much misery. So many terrible deeds have been done and are continuing to be done in the name of God or religion.
I can only speak for myself, but the reason I care is because people use their religion to try to control the lives of others. If religious people would mind their own business, so would the vast majority of atheists. But you get religious people pushing their views on everyone on matters such as abortion, funding for religious schools, discriminating against people who don't share their same views, trying to get religion and religious ideas into the classroom, etc.
Trust me, I control my life, not someone else. Atheists however are the most aggressive and harassing people I know of.
And I have met atheists who push their agenda on others. Or make topics and theads to simply sh! t on spiritual researches, deny, deny and insult.
They are no better than the people you mention of. The are just the other side of the coin.
@AvaOneLasTime But again, I say that if religious people would just mind their own business so would the atheists. You never hear us complaining about Hindus, or Buddhist, or Scientologists, because they are not the ones trying to force everyone to live by their beliefs. If Christians would do the same, you would never hear from the vast majority of us. Imagine living in a world where people were trying to force you to live by their belief in Santa Claus, or Xenu, or Brahma.
Ah, so it's the believers only fault, in this conflict, you guys are just defending yourself? Even through one of the must cruel criminals in history are atheists?
you are a part of the problem. You are not a person, who would bring people together. Sadly.
Why shouldn't organisations be allowed to discriminate against those who don't share their values? Don't political parties, for example, do the same?
Why shouldn't they be allowed to have views on topics like abortion? Atheists don't seem to complain when things go their way, and the rights of those who are Christian are trampled on (ex. when they simply try to disseminate their views, and they're prevented from doing this for one dodgy reason or another, ex. a priest mentioning the obvious fact that the Bible openly condemns homosexuality in a sermon). What about freedom of expression and speech? I thought most atheists supported that.
So you think discrimination is okay? Should people be able to discriminate against gays? Black people? Hispanics? Muslims? Women?
Name one example of the rights of Christians actually being violated. Because I've never heard of a priest going to jail for saying whatever they want in church
Discrimination is discernment, and we ALL do it. People have their favourites, they have their preferences, and that's just human nature. One cannot legislate against that, nor should one even try. Employers, for example, should be free to hire whomever they want, for any reason at all, and there should be no legislation that should ever be allowed to get in their way.
"Because I've never heard of a priest going to jail for saying whatever they want in church"
Oh wow, look at all the results that popped up.
duckduckgo.com/
I think I need to make myself clear here. I'm against the existence of rules that hinder the effective and efficient running of businesses when it comes to their hiring practices. "Affirmative action", for example, doesn't help anyone, because people want to be hired because they're the best for the job, not because some silly quota needed to be fulfilled. How would you feel if you found out you were not hired because you were the best applicant, but because you were "special" (ex. female, gay, black, or whatever) and you were simply chosen because people of your background were needed to meet the quota?
You were not clear at all about that in your original comment, which was this:
"Name one example of the rights of Christians actually being violated. Because I've never heard of a priest going to jail for saying whatever they want in church"
Then when I presented evidence that you were wrong, you came out with, "Oh no, I just meant the US"
(sigh)
We practice discrimination when we select chocolate ice cream over vanilla (or vice versa). We practice discrimination when we select our friends, who we will associate with, and even who we will respond to here on GAG. As I said before, discrimination is just another term for discernment; that is, weighing the pros and cons when deciding upon a course of action, in order to achieve the best outcome.
"I am against it in all forms" - No, you're not. You just parrot these silly cliches because you've been programmed to. You're an NPC, a non-playable character who tries to virtue-signal by coming out with asinine rubbish like this in the hope it you will gain approval points in the game of social acceptance and conformity.
The essence is that religious people are believers and the problem is that atheists are deniers.
And when people like that make threads to bash people, who believe, it becomes ideology.
Whereas I have never seen people drag an atheists to the church across the street. Have you?
Santa Claus, Brahma and Xenu are equally false. God is not. There, simple! :)
How I "feel" about this is irrelevant, because facts don't care about your feelings, as Ben Shapiro would say.
You see, this is one of the crucial differences between far-left atheists on the one hand, and clear-thinking theists on the other - WE don't take into consideration emotions when trying to determine what is true, because our feelings on the matter don't matter. What matters is the truth, and how we happen to feel about those truths do not have any bearing upon the validity, or otherwise, of a claim. Atheists are emotional creatures who have neither the truth, nor science, on their side; just "feelings". It's pathetic really.
(Sigh)
Please don't tell me what I do and do not think. You are not a mind reader. I am against discrimination in employment in all forms. You on the other hand, appear not to be. You appear to be perfectly fine with people discriminated against people that they don't like. I am not.
Look, there's no use in trying to deny what you originally claimed here. You said:
"I've never heard of a priest going to jail for saying whatever they want in church"
Now you're trying to deny that. You were NOT "only referring to the US", because if you had been only referring to the US, you would have said so at the time.
Stop telling lies.
I doubt it's the religion they have a problem with, could be but it's more that if someone feels irrational they try to correct or find out?
I’m not religious, I don’t care and try to respect others religions. I only have a problem when someone tries to use their religion as a way to shame others life decisions. That’s when I’ll remind them that not everyone has to base their life off of what YOUR beliefs are
Did I say you said that? Lol
I’m just throwing my opinion on how I feel about religions because you were asking about why atheists care so much. I wasn’t talking about you specifically I was speaking in general
They covet what they can't have. Just like thieves will not think of the errors of their ways, but of others.
I am an atheist and I don't care about religion. As long as the religious don't try to convert me
Narcissism runs high in atheists, there are studies
they are strong believers in "Anti-religeon" it's a whole diferent kind if "faith"
The Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will descend to the earth and will kill the antichrist along with the Mahdi. But there are those who are truly Christians will be with Jesus Christ. Jesus is not God, he is just a prophet sent by God.
Because it became a religion.
@AndrésC64 Oh boy. Out with the "not collecting stamps" analogy once again? That's getting really old, really lame. I mean, at least you could have instead used the analogy, "atheism is a religion like being bald is a hair style".
Atheism, as such and according to the dictionary, may not be a religion, but those who now like to call themselves atheists (because it's trendy, apparently) certainly display the religious mindset when it comes to proselytizing, printing books on the subject (ex. 'The God Delusion', 'The End of Faith'), holding rallies, persecuting non-atheists, and seeking out and confronting heresy, to list just a few of the similarities.
@AndrésC64 Would it be better if I called it a cult? The problem are the loudest voices from whom stereotypes are formed. It's they who religiously do not believe or want to even entertain the thought of a higher power or the likes. Maybe that's why we have agnostics, people who are at least willing to listen.
Asker,
Can you define 'religion' for me?
And if not atheism, then what would not-having-a-religion look like?
@CountessSarah Religions involve:
1. A central belief (ex. God)
2. 'Holy' texts
3. Saints, spiritual leaders, heroes etc.
4. The demand for conformity
5. Certain rituals, practices
6. An "Us vs Them" mentality
Now is atheism like this? Let's find out.
1. Central, unquestionable belief - there is no God (or god, or the gods)
2. Texts that its adherents are encouraged to read and venerate - ex. 'The God Delusion', 'The End of Faith', 'A Universe from Nothing'.
3. Spiritual leaders - Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, James Randi, Lawrence Krauss, Peter Atkins.
4. Conformity - Isn't it rather odd that the majority of self-proclaimed atheists all have the same opinions on, for example, euthanasia, gender, and abortion? Why is that?
5. Rituals - mocking theists, virtue-signalling, and sacrificing their children in the name of "convenience".
6. Us vs. Them - Well, this one is glaringly obvious to all.
1. A central belief (ex. God) -
Mmmm. No. It's not just a central belief - because in that case any number of other beliefs that you wouldn't call a religion would meet that criteria. It's a 'supernatural belief' that should be point 1. Which atheism does not have.
2. 'Holy' texts -
I agree with this criteria somewhat - not all religions have holy books, Buddhism for example, but sure, I'll allow it.
But atheism doesn't have any. It's not a prerequisite for being an atheist that you read The God Delusion. It just happens to be a book about atheism, written by an atheist. That's not the same as being a divinely inspired, unquestionable, mandatory-reading holy book. Apples to oranges.
3. Saints, spiritual leaders, heroes etc.
Again, sure, but atheism doesn't have any.
You used Dawkins as an example again - I don't find Dawkins particularly interesting, nor is he any more of an authority on athiesm than anyone else. He isn't appointed pope-of-atheism. He's just a well known one. Can I be the pope-of-atheism under your standards if I'm just well known enough?
Because I can be the pastor-of-atheism for GAG until then.
4. The demand for conformity
Conformity... In that you don't believe a god exists? That's the only tenet of atheism. I'm not sure I would list this as part of the criteria for a religion, either, but whatever.
Many atheists tend to agree on certain issues, sure. But it's not mandatory - someone isn't any less of an atheist because they happen to have one political opinion that varies from mine.
5. Certain rituals, practices
Spiritual rituals/practices, sure, I'll accept. But atheism doesn't have any.
6. An "Us vs Them" mentality -
No, I don't accept that criteria, either. Buddhism is pretty laid back and I don't think would meet this criteria despite being a religion.
I’m not an atheist but I personally don’t like having religion pushed down my throat, used to encroach human rights and all of the hypocrisy
I only say an atheist I am because I was asked or people online keep saying that I will go to hell, I should die, or he’s real, or want to convert me, etc.
They care because that have fears that someone else is right and they will be "left out.
Religions tend to be intrusive. They share their beliefs. Atheists tend to push back against intrusiveness and are arguably sharing their beliefs in kind. The thing that’s different is the message.
For many atheism is a religion and they are just as extrem about it as any religious nut
I can't speak to your interactions elsewhere, but beginning a discussion by arguing that atheists are closet Stalinists is usually not going to elicit very positive responses right?
Cause people force religion down our throats. Like Westboro Baptist church.
Belief is part of human survival strategy. It' part of us whether we like it or not
Because those folks are probably narcissistic control freaks as well.
They wonder how the believers can be so stupid as to believe in something they were told about in a book which no one has ever seen or heard from. Some invisible man-made creature!
Because you're not happy to just have your faith, you guys keep trying to put your religious beliefs into law and that affects everyone.
Stop pretending you don't know this.
Your question implied it so that's how I answered. If you're not religious you can mentally substitute the pronoun to one of your liking. It's not hard.
Betther death then communist!!!
cause atheist wanna prove their false religion
GOOD LUCK WITH THAT
Because they do believe in God and hate God.
Because deep down they know they must be wrong
Because were assaulted everyday about being atheist.
Because they are driven by Satan.
Very good question
Mainly because others bring it up.
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