how’d it impact your belief?
It’s a great book with great stories. I can appreciate all that and still be left feeling lost bc I was expecting different feelings or answers.
I generally read the Bible every day. The more I read it and meditate on its teachings the more I understand how true it’s teachings are.
The more I read the Bible the more I am convinced of the damage and extent of the damage sin has done to us. The more I read and study and meditate the more I see there is fundamentally something wrong with humans and particularly myself. Apart from scripture informing us, our views and thoughts are completely corrupted by sin. The more light I receive from scripture the more I see the wisdom of God in scripture.
Consider this: the leading cause of death on this planet is other humans. If you added up all the deaths from war, murder, genocide, human sacrifice and government sanctioned executions you by far have the leading cause of death as by other humans. Does this not indicate something Is fundamentally wrong with man? That we in our history would so quickly destroy life to acquire land or wealth? That we have done this over and over? Clearly man is an incredibly violent species. Why?
Or consider this. All creation had to have an origin. I do not accept the Big Bang Theory as an answer. Where did the one densely packed atom that exploded into the cosmos and planets come from? Surely it didn’t creat itself it self exist. Consider the complexities of DNA and the human body. I find it impossible to believe this all occurred by a random chance event like evolution. Those things point to a creator.
“For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.””
1 Corinthians 1:18-19 ESV
“For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.”
Romans 1:20 ESV
“And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.”
Ephesians 2:1-3 ESV
Why does a deity making humans from mud seem more/less realistic than the big bang? Also, nobody knows where the densely packed atom came from, its a mystery of philosophy. To believe in one and not the other is fine, but the big bang theory has more proofs and evidences on the history of the universe (theory of evolution included) than the Bible does. Also humans are indeed very chaotic and I agree with you on that end, but disagree with rest.
Also if you notice, doesn't the Bible (and every other religion on this planet, mythology included) has one thing in common. The fact that people go into afterlife after death. I believe the old testament (created by the folk at the time) played on this thought.
The real question people never ask is where did good and evil itself come from? The Bible may be God's word, but it isn't given by God himself. It was written down/ orally transmitted through generations. The very concept of good and evil is a human one. Why are predators that kill for food (as you've mentioned humans kill for land, money etc etc) less bad or good? At the end of the day, both are required for survival. The reason humans are destructive is purely due to the nature of greed.
And since we have wisdom we realize that greed is the very thing that causes harm (with global pollution, poaching etc etc).
And with meditating what does that do? Does it make you ponder on its meanings taking into account the time frame of the verses or just the literal meaning of it?
You can believe in whatever you feel right. I'm not objecting to anything. I'm just pointing out a few things I was wondering. At the end of the day, live good, do good by your own right or religion. I respect that.
Because it’s as I stated. You can’t have a self existing atom. It didn’t create itself, so how did it get there? One of the laws of thermodynamics states that mater is neither created nor destroyed. Every atom that has existed since the beginning still exists. So it would be impossible to have a self existing atom. Something outside our time space domain is required to create it.
In regards to man being created from dirt, it still makes more sense than evolution. Our bodies are way too complex and so is DNA that it couldn’t have happened by a random chance occurrence. It’s called the theory of evolution but not taught as a theory but rather absolute fact.
Both the Big Bang Theory and evolution violate the scientific method because they are not repeatable. Also, there is no change of kind in the fossil record. They’re still searching for the missing link. They will be forever because it doesn’t exist.
All religions don’t teach an afterlife. Buddhism and Hinduism along with Jainism I believe teach reincarnation. Confucianism teaches nothing as far as an afterlife.
Good and evil also come from the supernatural. Some would say their social constructs. Fine then. Will you commit murder? After all, it’s just a social construct. You won’t because you know it’s wrong, not because society says so but because you know it intuitively.
The Holy Spirit directed men what to write in regards to scripture.
We are different than animals. We have the ability to reason. Animals don’t.
Where does greed come from and why is it common to the human race? Certainly that’s not a societal construct.
In regards to meditating I mean thinking about the scriptures and
as an individual if I need to change or if I’m doing the right thing according to what is commanded. I mean thinking on the character of God. I mean thinking about what other concepts apply to what I’m meditating on.
I also respect your views. As I see it, the Bible’s account of these things is what makes sense.
Hmmm Romans 1:20, the ESV Removes the Godhead completely out of it. People shouldn't really quote Bibles that have been changed.
King James Version
1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
@sean
Says divine nature vs Godhead, which means the same thing in the context of the verse. I don’t see and issue with the translation.
It did because I wasn't aware of it, I'd only seen people who were christian and different but didn't know why. It's a tough read... a path through hell isn't it! And a lot of it is a mess without deep understanding of the times and introspection.
When I gained a broader view of the purpose of the book and read it from an emotional viewpoint, it made a lot more sense and impacted me. Specifically , a lot of what Jesus said, what apostles said about him, and Genesis 2 and 3 are most impactful. Some of psalms. Some stories are hard to get the value out of for me, I'm not a great reader.
I think if you see the heart of God to love his creation, for God IS love, then you see the Bible right and it is touching.. for that connection is what we deeply seek. If you get lost in all the details, misery, suffering death, punishment, etc.. then it's a long trudge through a swamp. Logically, it's very hard to get... thus apologetics.. which was a mess to me. Everyone is different, we all have different brains and challenges, books will speak differently to us.
Try having faith in Christ that He lived that you would have your life and died to save you, that you have life more abundantly, showed you how to connect with God is love, that you are loved eternally and have a purpose and value. Utilize this to cleanup and heal your inner wounds. Practice what he practiced... fast, pray in Thanksgiving, practice gratitude, etc.. That will be a much better path...
Don't let anyone tell you what the truth is, bully you into their viewpoint, you go to God directly and let your heart in love respond. Hope that makes sense. Many are trying to find God, some have done so. It's continual work to stay on the good path in a challenging world that wants us to think..."this"... is all there is.
My ex dumped me after sex. His older brother was a bully. So we were f*cking and it was nice, just as he was cumming his older brother hit from behind and knocked him out and locked him in the closet, he ejaculated over the floor. I was hysterical. Then the older brother had sex with me twice, I'm ashamed to say I came 4 times really hard and ejaculated which is something I never do soaking the bed sheets, I was terrified the whole time. He kept calling me a dirty slut and how I like a real man with a big dick and made me say how much bigger his dick was compared to my boyfriend, my boyfriendheard all this. My boyfriend dumped me and called me a slut. I ended up dating his brother for a while as I was in such a bad place, my then ex boyfriend never looked me in the eye again. The brother is in jail now, he did the same thing to another couple. I had only turned 15.
I'm so sorry... I'm also a SA survivor and that was not okay... it wasn't your fault... I hope you find healing
Sounds like you just didn't understand, or appreciate the most important points of the Bible. Instead of dwelling of the old laws and judgement in the Old Testament, you need to focus on the New testament, because when people start in the Old Testament it leaves most people confused, including me.
Might I recommend the podcast "Bible in a year" with father Mike Schmitz. You can also YouTube it. It breaks the Bible in 365 (roughly 20 minute) segments in a order that is easily digestible.
I agree I've never gotten much out of the old testament. God always comes across as angry and wrathful. But this series has been quite an eye opener for me. It explains how things like the expulsion from Eden was actually an act of love. And it doesn't come across as really preachy... at least not to me.
@ChiTown33 I liked the Through the Bible in a Year by J. Vernon Magee. That, along with his commentaries, helped me understand certain verses and such that people usually misinterpret.
@ChiTown33 Probably is. He may be using Magee's books for reference.
I don't know was that put out by ascension books? Because according to him he assembled a whole council of biblical scholars to come up with this podcast. Believe it or not it was the most downloaded podcast all of last year with 142miliion downloads. I heard about it on the news and I said well if 142 million people gave it a shot why not me.
@ChiTown33 Well Magee's books and that came out in the 70's I believe. So who knows?
Opinion
20Opinion
I believe the bible is allegorical and must be interpreted through the motive of mercy and not the motive of judgment
Okay, Theology is the study of the Nature of God through the WORD of God. (Matthew 7:7-8).
You are seeking an existential knowing of God. The only way I know to have that “Knowing of God” is to study the Attributes of God in relation to the world definition.
In other words, Love verse love, Goodness verse goodness etc. You have to read, study, and consider it Biblically… every day some like 4:45-6:30am some 10-12am. Everyday at same time.
www.biblestudytools.com in the search window type in Attributes
A series of events happened in my childhood that basically solidified my beliefs. I have talked to a deceased relative on a number of occasions, seen demons, had others see them around me and had people in tears and freaking out over it, I've had a few near death experiences miraculously averted, and in my deceased grandmother's bedroom I literally felt her energy and it did something to my body to make me feel calm. Also when my dog died I felt her resting her chin and arms in my leg. I woke up and there was no one there. This was about 2 weeks after she passed away. When I pray I have my prayers answered. God led me to my fiance.
The more you read the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) the more you realize the New Testament cannot be true.
Why believe in one god-man (Jesus) but reject all the other god-men of every other religion? The truth is "God is not a man", (Numbers 23:19).
Since God is not a man neither the Son fo Man, then Jesus is not God and is not the Messiah. If Jesus were the Messiah, why does Sin still exist? Daniel said the Messiah would put an end to sin and bring about everlasting righteousness, which obviously has not happened, so Jesus cannot be the Messiah.
Jesus was just a prophet, like so many other prophets who were sent by God to lead people to righteousness, although so many people deny and turn into sins. As long as there are temptations, there are sins. It is us who have to stand against these temptations and save ourselves, because we have the power to make choices!!
There's no one standing over you with a gun telling you that you have to take it literally. In fact, I think once you stop taking it literally, you appreciate it a lot more. Unfortunately, it gets all wrapped up in this whole "I believe" or "I don't believe" or "Do you really believe that..." blah blah blah nonsense. Who cares if Jesus was really born in a manger or not? It's a beautiful story and idea of what it means to find God. The point is, God is not born in a castle surrounded by guards and protecting his gold and killing his enemies. God is a lowly, lowly thing born in a stable, in the lowest place you can think of. Now, forget if it really happened or not? Who cares? It's a lesson. There is no barrier to God other than you.
I know I have emotional and mental problems. That I have been looking around for life lessons and advices. And I even turned to Bible reading just to heal my stress and anxiety. Most of the time I don’t understand the Bible.
I have even been going to 3 different churches that don’t make sense to me: Lutheran
mormon
jehovah
That now I think “fuck, I just want adventure, friends and a relationship. Why is this so hard and complicated?”
for what it's worth... it's a "heart" issue. Churches often turn it into a "head" issue. The deep inner emotions connected to God, love... so that each can grow to their full potential and live life fully, free of the oppression we were handed... life without fear, for a greater purpose. That's what Christ opened for all. The emotions and mental problems are rooted in traumas in early life.. our deep inner voices saying "something is wrong". those can be healed with Gods love and understanding, you'll know it when you get there.
note, we all have these issues... it's the fragility of humanity separated from our source, God. hope that helps you or someone.
Mormon and Johavans both by default can't actually be Christians because they add things that were never present in Christ's teachings so that's already gonna confuse tf out of you. Both are spread through the messages of false prophets. You'd be better gathering what you learned from the Lutheran church and then going to a non denominational and maybe an Orthodox to get a good variety of viewpoints and ideas while still basically staying to scriptures. The bible doesn't confuse me at all and I think it's pretty clear. Maybe you just need a Bible that's less poetic in it's writing format? The standard christian Bible basically spells it all out in plain, easy to understand English. But it's not perfect. The main issue is we are taking Hebrew and Greek and translating to English. So some things are gonna be off on that one
@t-8900 All religions were invented by humans. No need to single a couple out as pretend. All are BS.
@I_Can_Help there's a reason they exist though, lifes challenges are real and science doesn't have the answers even today that soothe the heart. We're all different with different views and issues, personalities, so great variation results. Our creative minds for sure have influence.
@t-8900 I agree on your comments, I didn't find those to be true or helpful.
To the askers question... I started by reading "spirituality for dummies", not the Bible... But reading the Bible exposed me to what Christ said and did which touched me, I eventually believed it to be true after challenging it enough to my liking and experiencing the results. There's a leap required in faith which gains the result. Some are restrained and can't do that. True faith in an immutable God is relevant, some of the offshoots are messed up with too many human hands on them. Definitely be careful when a person interjects between you and your creator... other than Christ imho.
@I_Can_Help that has nothing to do with what I said so not sure why you bothered with that. I'm staring facts and you're stating opinions. Idc what a person's opinion is on religion, that's on them. But Mormons and Jahovans cannot be Christians based on scripture. Let's leave it at that
@t-8900 anyone can call themselves a Christian. It's a pretend thing.
@I_Can_Help no it would be the same as an authoritarian declaring themselves a libertarian. You wouldn't understand, you've never taken the time to learn. doesn't matter if you believe its real or not. Calling red blue does not make it so. To truly be a Christian you must adhere to a certain code of principles and subscribe to a particular set of teachings. To say its a "pretend thing" without proof is no different from me saying your manhood is a pretend thing. You can't prove it to me, thus it can be dismissed as you're only an account here without a way to verify who you are. You can't say it as a scientific fact that none of the things from the bible never happened or that God does not exist because there's no way to disprove it and some people in the scientific community, including former atheists are subscribing to the "return to God" because they believe science points to a designer rather than a random set of events.
Before picking up the Bible I believed in God. When heard of The God of the Bible and His love for us, I became more curious about Him. The Bible in my mind makes sense, its relatable and answers the questions that have been important to me. When I make a comparison to the "rest" He is more logical.
You're confused, as reading and understanding are not the same thing, nor all it takes.
If reading was all it took, then dumbass Twilight readers would be vampires and werewolves, and Harry Potter dimwits would be occult masters.
Faith is not something you get just by reading. Nor does belief come just because you want it.
You need to grow up kiddo. Stop being so simple.
I asked how it impacted YOU…
, but It is interesting to me that your response to my reflection on reading the Bible is grow up and you don’t have the intelligence to understand it…
I’d challenge I’m vastly more educated and intelligent than the scribes and priests that wrote the hearsay versus originally.
Where does faith come from if I can’t rely on the holiest of books to move me? Where does the foundation of belief come from if I can’t fall back on the original stories/teachings that supposedly prove the value of religion and existence of god?
From a common sense perspective how can you double down on anything that’s littered with contradictions. “Overlook this it’s not important, interpret this that way for it to make sense.”
Do you sport, I hope you find comfort in the book. But that’s not what I learned from your hit piece response.
lol it’s a book to govern the everyday man that can only be understood by the elite…. BRILLIANT
No mystery where royalty came from is there. God speaks to me, it says so in this book you can’t understand… lol convenient
Probably less of a believer. I just saw the Bible like any other book. Had some really good stories in there but so did Harry Potter.
The Bible wasn't the reason I stopped believing it had a lot more to do with the people in my church and I just saw it as one big massive con
Some cult churches ARE cons.
Hmmm Romans 1:20, the ESV Removes the Godhead completely out of it. People shouldn't really quote Bibles that have been changed.
King James Version
1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
There is proof the bible gives you, you know? Specifically the KJV BIBLE because of its accuracy. The books of Isaiah, Revelation and a few others. We are living in the 6th seal mentioned in the book of Revelation. I know that because I have opened myself up to wanting to know what the truth is.
Honestly reading through the old testament makes you wonder why we would serve such a vengeful and spiteful god. Who orders Israel for the slaughtering of entire peoples, including children. Jesus did way with this old covenant in his ministry of peace and yet we killed him. Says a lot, doesn't it?
It didn't in itself. This is why fellowship is so important. God doesn't want you to just read his word. He wants you to experience his love.
I get it man! I'm a VERY analytical person. And I would like God to just be like a holy search engine. I have a question, type it in and get a quick answer. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. And it's probably a good thing. Because then we wouldn't grow in our faith.
Similar to you, I made a late re-reading effort.
I skipped ''Kings'' and the ''Psalms'' though. I never was an admirer of poetry, and I feel unrelated to Jewish ancestry.
I don't believe 'more' -nor 'less' now.
But a few passages made me think over some human 'issues' again.
it made me an atheist. if you read the bible in it's entirety, thinking for yourself, not being spoon fed quotes by a preacher while being told what you should think, you can't keep the faith... like it's not that i don't agree with the morals it's trying to teach. but i disagree with the god thing, cause that's all just claims and i highly doubt it's historical accuracy.
I don’t think you’re going to find concrete evidence verifying the existence of God in any book.
@Agagagagaga well of course not, cause god is obviously made up to legitimate claims to governing power. that was actually quite a common thing back then. even back before "the ultimate all powerfull god" was made up, villages and tribes would make up gods to threatten other villages and tribes. for example with gods of thunder or fertility and they used them to discourage violent war action. it was actually quite effective.
but nothing of that changes the fact that gods are made up by humans and NOT real. that's clear as day. god is a concept. an idea. not a real world thing.
of course i won't find any concrete evidence in those books, cause you can't find concrete evidence for shit that's made up :D but yeah. that's why i'm an atheist. that doesn't mean i can't appreciate the bible for what it is: a contradictory collection of fictional annekdotes written by a multitude of different authors and corrupted by millenia of word of mouth transportation and translation into different languages too much.
Your claims to refute the existence of God are no more credible than claims for the existence of God. I don’t care why you’re an atheist or even that you are one. But acting as if something unprovable is hogwash simply because others choose to believe in something unverifiable isn’t intellectually sound. People have their reasons for believing, and people have their reasons for not believing. I don’t believe the claims of either side hold any more water than the other.
@Agagagagaga im actially not an "atheist". i just say that cause people understand that. i'm an ignostic but that usually takes some explanation, cause people don't know what that is.
Agnosticism and atheism are very different. The only way people become familiar with a word is through its use. I respect all 3 positions: belief in a deity or deities, agnosticism, and atheism. We simply can’t know for certain on any of them. Each person, if so inclined to consider the possibilities, makes up their own mind on the matter.
@Agagagagaga a claim that has been made without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. i don't need any credibility to call bullshit on unsubstentiated claims.
@Agagagagaga so when i say god doesn't exist, i do not make a positive truth claim. i am denying an umsubstentiated claim of people who say that there is a god. you won't ever be able to twist around that burden of evidence. i know christians try to push for that but if you claim something you gotta proof it or else you're not making a valid argument to begin with. denying an invalid argument is not an argument in itself.
I agree. Claims need evidence. Unfortunately the evidence we have for either position is nebulous. Believers point to various things and say it’s proof of God, atheists look at the same things and say there is nothing there. It just comes down to the individual.
@Agagagagaga i think it helps to think of it like a court of law. you never try to prove innnocence in law, cause you can't. but you can proof guilt. that's why we assume innocence until proven otherwise. so is god guilty of existing? it wasn't yet proven. there's just heresay and allegations. so the premise "guilty until proven otherwise" stands. god is not guilty of existing.
because with any argument that is used in favor of the existence of god, you would also have to accept any other fictional character to exist for real. you can't deny the existence of superman and spiderman but accept that god is a thing. that's logically incoherent.
If you believe in a Creator you also have to believe in Spider-Man?
@Agagagagaga no. if you believe in god as described in the bible, then you also have to believe in spiderman.
belieing in a generalized "creator" not the specific abrahamic version of a god is less logically incoherent.
though i personally think that a creator is a solution in search of a problem in regards to being a puzzle piece in your individual construction of reality and the world that you find yourself in. like everything already makes perfect sense without a creator in my view. a creator is like putting in another piece into a puzzle that's already complete.
that's why i'm an "ignostic". irgnostics ignore the possibility that there's a god. agnostics think it can't be known whether there is a god or not. i as an ignostic believe that "if there was a god", then we could know it. but since we don't know that there is a god, the question whether there's a god or not ultimately has no impact on my individual life, so believing in one is pointless. is has no practical use in my life, so i ignore it. that's what an ignostic is, in case you cared xD
I’ve never been a believer but I made a point of reading all the holy books, and multiple versions of them, and to be honest they’ve all confirmed to me that I made the right decision in choosing to be an atheist
The Christian bible is a book of stories that has been written over and over each time changing its meaning. Even the original stores were hearsay and written in a time that most believed in gods and mystical creatures. It's far from reality!
Didn't at all. When I went to church as a kid, I heard Jesus died for my sins and I literally felt the Holy Spirit speak and testify to my heart and conscience that Jesus is the way and the Bible is God's word without ever reading it.
You aren't the only one Julia Sweeney decided to read the Bible start to finish and had a similar experience. She realized that God isn't real. She has a two hour podcast "Letting Go of God".
I haven't touched or looked at any of that crap since my junior school days, and certainly don't intend to ever again.
I became a believer by reading it. All the times people just told me stuff it seemed wrong and then i read it and realized most Christians are not Christian. Thats the problem.
try reading to quran i mean i am not telling to convert to islam but just try it
The Bible drew me closer to Jesus. If someone reads the Bible with an open mind, you see many mysteries being answered about the world.
Yes! So true. It enables you to see what was not previously seen.
Maybe it was not for you, as it says , not all people will believe. It has to touch your heart..
It didn't change anything. I just found it all so amusing.
I've probably read bits and pieces but besides being notable as a historical document be it one responsible for numerous horrors I don't take it as anything but a work of fiction.
It turned me agnostic... from 14-16 I was Christian then at 16 I realized I like women... I fell into depression and started questioning the church... since I've realized how bad the religion is
Far less. Feeling something out there for yourself is much different.
Christians are children of God and His Word tells us about Him, Jesus and Holy Spirit and how to stay focus on Him
Because none of it can be proven as true.
Never read it. I’m really not into mythology.
It’s a book of fairy tales that weaves some historical events and figures into it. Religions are created by man because we can’t explain our own existence. Eventually they die out and are accepted as the mythology that they are. Evolution is real and documented as in species adapt to their environment and evolve. Darwin’s theory as a whole is just that… a theory.
Did you know that there are fossils of animals today that are the same age as dinosaur fossils? Did you know there are countless documentation of people from the last several thousand years of people witnessing and killing animals that match many dinosaur 🦕 descriptions. Even today, although I'm slightly skeptical.
Less. Lot less.
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