An open challenge to Atheists and Agnostics based on Copernican Principle. What do you people think?

[SeekerOfTruth007]

Copernican principle is two axioms which taken together form the basis for all of modern science and thought.

1) The Laws of the Universe are the same for all of space and time.

Einstein restated this in his First Postulate of Relativity as "The Laws of the Universe are the same for every observer in every reference frame."

2) We do not occupy a special place in reality.

Alright, so all of science and reason is based on two axioms, but those axioms do not even make sense without an Almighty God designing everything. The mere fact there are LOGICAL LAWS which order all of reality and which even order our observations of reality shows that SOMEONE created the Laws. Without a Creator, you are embarking on a FOOL'S ERRAND in trying to make sense of reality, because Reality without a Creator is pure CHAOS. You are then believing all of everything popped into existence randomly for no reason whatsoever and with no purpose or design whatsoever, but then you embark on the FOOLISH quest to try to put order and meaning to that nonsense! So the mere fact that you search for underlying laws and meaning in reality shows that deep down you actually DO believe in a Creator, whether you will acknowledge Him or not.

If you do not believe in a Creator, why would you search for Law, Order, and Meaning in a reality which could have no law, order, or meaning? You would be insane and beside yourself.

In the real Universe, even Entropy obeys a quantifiable, Logical Law, and is not "true disorder".

Updates

1 y

Define "Meaning" without appealing to a Mind, and it cannot be a human mind, because humans have not been around as long as the Universe itself. If the Universe has any "Meaning" then you have proven it was created by a pre-existing Mind.

Updates

1 y

Yeah, coward. Ban me from replying to you on my own thread, after you make personal attacks against me, because you're ignorant.

[FunkyMonkee]

Everything happened by chance!

Alright, I'll see your Copernicus and raise you an Epicurus.

Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god?

Epicurus

Anytime I ask someone about god, I never get answers! All I get are excuses! And, usually, quite poor ones! For instance, everything is part of god's great plan! Right? Okay so, if I killed someone and the cops arrest me and ask why I did it, I SHOULD be able to be set free by just saying, "It was part of god's great plan." If there IS a god and it controls EVERYTHING EVERYBODY does then, anything I do MUST be part of god's plan, right?
This is when you chime in with, "Oh, no! God gave everybody free will!" Well, if I've got free will, what do I need a god for? Did god punish Charlie Manson? NO! WE did! Had we not, and let god take care of it, he might've spent the rest of his life killing who knows how many other people while we waited for god to smite him but, if there's a god, why doesn't it care that there's a guy running loose killing innocent people? Why didn't god stop him before he did any of that? Oh!! There's that free will thing, again! So, again, if god's NOT gonna lift a finger to help, what good is it? If you hired someone to wash dishes and, once they got the job, they just sat around and did nothing for each 8 hour shift, would YOU have faith that, SOME DAY, he'll actually do some work? Are you going to continue to pay him for years on end on the off chance that he MIGHT, SOME DAY, do the work he was hired for?
Why doesn't god care enough to help us when we really need it? If there IS a god, why does the pope need a bullet-proof Popemobile?
Show me solid proof that god exists and I'll believe in it!! I've said that to a number of religious people and, all I ever get is another excuse why I can't actually meet god.

[strateguy632]

Epicurus argument wasted time mostly on what is known ro be false... and it does end up with a result as i quoted in my mytake.
"Able but not willing is good because it allows CHOICE.'
If i can't shoot a gun then that is bad world, no choice.

[FunkyMonkee]

@strateguy632 But, EVERYTHING is part of god's great plan so, if you DO shoot a gun, god planned it! That takes care of your choice. God PLANNED for you to shoot it! If you decided NOT to shoot it, that's against god's plan. If you can go against god's plan, that makes you better than god.
Apparently, god intended for 3000 innocent people to die 23 years ago. Now, just think of how many BILLIONS of people around the world wasted their time praying for god to keep those people alive! You're asking god to go against his great plan!! Imagine, if you ask him to change one aspect of his plan, and he actually DOES SO for you, that means he has to re-write ALL the other plans he already had planned out for the rest of eternity!! Not just on this planet but, in all the universes of all of the rest of time!! Now, what good is being god if some schmuck with a 2-bit prayer book and implore you to change something that's NOT of your great plan? Maybe that's why god never helps anybody! He's sick & tired of having to re-write the entire future of everything every time someone asks him to change something for their benefit! Wouldn't that piss YOU off if you JUST finished rewriting the future of everything and, every time you did, someone begged and pleaded with you to change it again? So, he probably got pissed at us and said, "Fuck you! I've had it with re-writing the future of everything!! From now on, you've ALL got free will!" And that COMPLETELY removes him from the entire equation and also kills that "great plan" shit all those holy rollers keep lying to you about! And, if god's no longer needed, he's free to take a perpetual vacation on the beach along with Joe Biden! If he's not gonna do anything, why do we need him? Same with Joey!

[SeekerOfTruth007]

Evil is a product of Free Moral Agency of Humans. The fact we are able to break moral laws proves that Free Moral Agency exists.

I am not conceding this debate, I am simply tired of debating Atheists who are neither imaginative nor honest about anything. Blaming God for the sins of humans is one of the oldest and most tired atheistic lies I've ever heard.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

You don't know basic theology. This is the so-called "Two Wills" Theology of God.

The "Perfect Will of God" is what God wants for a perfectly created World.
The "Plan of God" is what God does, knowing full well that humans are imperfect to begin with.

So yes, God has TWO Wills. One is a Perfect Will Commandment, the other is a Perfect Plan for willfully disobedient people.

[FunkyMonkee]

Prove god exists!!
So far, over the past 50-some years, all I've EVER gotten from holy rollers is piss poor excuses!!
13 years ago, I worked in a print shop with this kid (mid 20's) who was a staunch believer! He came to work one day and reported to a number of us that he asked his "daddy", who was an even stricter believer, "Why didn't Noah take any of the dinosaurs onto the ark?" Rather than tell his kid the truth; that dinosaurs didn't exist anymore, by then, he comes up with this line of bullshit that, "There just wasn't enough room on the ark for them."

[FunkyMonkee]

Theology is bullshit! Why would I wanna waste my time studying bullshit?
Let's see, humans are imperfect. God IS perfect and he made humans. So, why didn't he make us perfect, too? Why did he create disease? Why did he create greed, hatred, sloth, envy or any of the other sins you claim he hates? And on the 8th day, god created murder. And he saw that it was good.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

He DID make us perfect. Every human being is born 100% innocent. It's not even physically possible for an unborn child to break any of the 10 commandments nor even the entire 613 commandments in the Torah.

We WILLFULLY CHOOSE to do evil when we do evil.

That is the answer to your question, whether you like it or not.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

Also, the smartest human beings are already better at math and strategy than any AI is ever going to be. The Cheater Insane AI on StarCraft beats Silver players, but Gold players can beat it without cheating themselves. Platinum players can beat 4 or 5 Cheater Insane AIs allied against themselves without cheating themselves. The best North American Grand Master can beat 7 Cheater Insane AIs allied against himself as any race matchup vs any race matchup, including 1 zerg vs 7 Cheater Insane Protoss.

That's how PERFECT God designed the human brain to begin with. Just recently, I saw an article on MSN which stated that Neuroscientists have recently discovered that the human brain has TEN TIMES more memory than they previously thought possible to a biological system, and it already was thought to have several Terrabytes worth of memory capacity.

[FunkyMonkee]

Right! That's why so very many of us are so fucked in the head or crippled!!
Innocence has NOTHING to do with it! And god has nothing to do with newborn babies! God doesn't make them, their parents do!
That kills god's great plan! Either it WAS PART of his plan or the plans he writes don't mean shit!!
WHAT is he answer to my question? Which question are you talking about?

[FunkyMonkee]

Okay, so what?
I can play entire 4-hour gigs behind my 14-piece drum set blindfolded. I can solve Rubic's Cube in roughly :20. And, I can toot a tune or two, too.

Yet, there's still hundreds of thousands of people walking around here just in America that can't even spell very simple words! The kind you learn in 4th or 5th grade!

Really? I was hearing about stuff like that 40 or 50 years ago!

[SeekerOfTruth007]

That is their own free moral agency CHOICE to remain ignorant and illiterate.

My father had a terrible speech impediment and probably had a Verbal IQ less than 85. On the other hand, I have a verbal IQ of 134 and a composite IQ of 187, which to my knowledge is the second highest proven score in world history.

You are NOT the product of your parents' genes nor failures. You are trhe product of your own choices, excluding illness and injury, and even some of those are your own choices (sexual impurity, drugs, alcohol, obesity, etc).

[FunkyMonkee]

Babies CHOOSE to be crippled or retarded? How does THAT work?

My dad quit school at 16 to join the Air Force yet, he turned out to be VERY intelligent. He also used to be a drummer.
I'm more intelligent than him and am a couple points shy of borderline genius. I play drums, too.

I am NOT a product of god!
I AM still waiting for PROOF of a god. A person as smart as you should've been able to figure out a way to do that by now! Have god come over and meet me! We can talk while playing cards or backgammon. He should be able to play any instrument he wants! We can make a record together.
People don't CHOOSE to be fat! Not all of them. I've gained weight because I'm a victim of circumstance! Everything I used to do to keep skinny was taken away from me 20 to 30 years ago! I've been trying to lose weight ever since!! It just won't come off!! Have god swing by, snap his fingers, wave his magic wand, wiggle his nose, sacrifice a chicken or goat or whatever he does to make me lose weight and get back to 190.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

God doesn't owe you or me a darn thing, and the fact you think he does shows how poorly you understand this topic. We are both Created beings, and we are both going to die someday, and that's actually a GOOD thing. It would be a shame to be forced to live forever in a world as screwed up as Humans on Earth are screwed up in the head.

And yes, maybe Retarded babies do choose to be retarded.

[FunkyMonkee]

When did I say it did? If it wants me to believe it exists, all it has to do is SHOW UP and meet me!! It's ALL- POWERFUL, right? It can do ANYTHING, right? Tem, why can't it just SHOW UP and prove to everyone that it exists? "God doesn't owe you or me a darn thing" is just ANOTHER excuse for it to NOT show up!! and the fact that you keep MAKING these excuses proves how little YOU understand my point! To paraphrase Clara Peller, "Where's the god?"
Yeah, I was created by MY parents and, you were created by yours.
Sure they do! Why would someone CHOOSE to be retarded?

[RavVid]

I don't discussions of this type have any merit. I can say the big bang created the universe and you will say that God created the big bang and ask me what was there before the big bang. I might say time did not exist before then you will ask me to prove that.

I have to admit that we can not explain everything and we cannot even reconcile quantum physics and relativity which each describes part of the universe well.

I can list what we understand well and list what we don't understand. You will label what we don't understand as God. Then use that "don't understand"/God area as proving everything else in the God area as true and given.

This has no value or merit and you are best not arguing it and to stay with the faith argument. If you are seeking to convince me you are not and I know I won't convince you so I won't even try. It is pointless on both sides.

You are happy with your faith and I am happy with the amount we currently understand and not discombobulated by things we don't presently understand.

We should just leave it at that.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

I don't argue for a "God of the Gaps".

I could tell you I've actually heard the audible Voice of God tell me to do things and it worked out correctly when I obeyed, but you will cal me a liar.

I could tell you I've had Divine Dreams forecasting World Disasters and other events, one day, one month, one year, or even two years ahead of time, but you will again call me a liar.

I don't "think" there is a God. I absolutely KNOW GOD PERSONALLY.

[RavVid]

No I would not call you a liar or any other religious person a liar. I might believe but I feel no need to denigrate those that do.

I'd suggest that many - very loosely - worship the creation whilst others worship a creator.

[RavVid]

might not believe

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Technically, we make the laws. Humans are the ones writing them down as we “discover” them. The truth is reality can be much more complex than we realize, and we also aren’t in a place to completely comprehend it, hence the paradoxical theories existing in the realm of quantum physics. Like string theory for example, it’s the theory that claims all of us are made up of strings of atoms that are constantly vibrating and everything is connected, this is the scientific theory that allows for things like witchcraft and spellcasting to work. They take a piece of you, something with your vibration, and change it on that piece thus changing the vibration of your own body even if it’s no longer physically attached to you. The laws of physics and the Copernican Principle truly are just the basis of learning about the nature of reality, much like how learning how to pronounce vowels is the basis of learning how to speak English. There’s just too much we don’t know, and religion is often a way to explain it but those folks also require no proof other than their own faith.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

No, The True Creator God made the laws. Mankind cannot make Laws of Physics, you ROFLMAO moron. The Laws of the Universe predate humans by 13.8 billion years at least, and there's new JWST evidence that the Universe is actually between two and 7 times older than the Standard Model suggests.

If you think Humans invented the Laws of Physics, you must have gotten an "F" in physics class.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

Without the Copernican Principle, we wouldn't be able to reason about the laws of the universe at all. The second postulate literally forbids the notion that humans invented physics or reason, since that would make us a "special place in reality".

[SeekerOfTruth007]

The First Postulate of Relativity definitely forbids the notion that the "observer" invents the Laws of the Universe.

It is preposterous that you cannot understand that, but maybe that's why you people are Atheists, because you can't even understand the First Rule of Logic.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

God doesn’t write the laws, we do. Same as god doesn’t write all the books about them. I don't know what your deal is but maybe chill?

[SeekerOfTruth007]

We do not write the laws, we DISCOVER the laws, you unqualified moron.

If we wrote the laws, the Universe would only be as old as Isaac Newton.

You're an obvious low IQ troll who doesn't even understand the consequences of the DUNING KRUGER level NONSENSE you are writing.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Humans have only been documenting history for 10,000 years (roughly) but there were a lot of minds more prominent than Isaac Newton before his birth

[SeekerOfTruth007]

No, there weren't. Before Newton, people thought God just manually controlled and manipulated everything and had no concept of relatable equations or Force Laws. Newton discovered Gravity (Amost fully described) and the Electro-Weak Force and Particle Nature of Light (partially described). Before Newton, nobody had any idea how to prove "fundamental forces" even existed.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Newton got the theory of gravity from studying the theories of 7th century Indian astronomer Brahmagupta, who inspired the philosophers Jean Buridan and Albert of Saxony, whose works Newton also studied.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

No he didn't. Have you ever read Optiks or Principia? I have. The things he wrote about NOBODY had any clue about before then. He got the Gravity equation and Constant correct to SEVEN decimal places on the first try, which we have only improved that to 10 decimal places since then.

[purplepoppy]

If God created the universe why is over 99.9999 % filled with nothing more than empty space and rocks? Seems a bit pointless to me.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

You don't know that. There isn't a telescope strong enough to detect other life yet, although James Webb has evidently detected seven DYSON SPHERES so far, which indicates an incredibly advanced alien species built the things. That's more purpose than mere rocks.

[purplepoppy]

No it hasn't. That would be headline news worldwide for weeks.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

It was first page on MSNdot com for weeks. I'm not lying. It was on the news on one of the local channels too, and they interviewed Dr. Kaku about it one time that I know of.

[purplepoppy]

Aw he thinks that's real news

[Lliam]

Here we go again. Christians trying to use science to prove that Biblical mythology is fact. Dude, you don't even believe in science.

"Humans have been around as long as the Universe itself"? ROFL Yeah, your God created it all in six days. 🤣 Okay, Creationist.
You obviously aren't familiar with astronomy, geology, paleontology, archeology, chemistry, molecular biology, or any other science.

Who said that God is a Him? Oh yeah, a tribe of primitive, patriarchal, nomadic goat herders who invented a creation myth that put them at the center of creation and made them their god's "chosen people".

It DOES NOT stand to reason that a Mind set the universe in motion or guides it. It may or may not be true, but your so called "logic" doesn't prove it. You're just a delusional Bible thumping fanatic.

You're god is no more real than any other gods that any culture ever invented.

You're entitled to your believes, but your insistence they they are fact, and your hysterical criticism of those who don't share your beliefs prove your lack of intellect.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

I'm not a christian, so your entire post is a strawman argument. You really look STUPID now.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

I didn't quote the Bible a single time in my entire thread, and although I did paraphrase it to put that other guy to shame for not knowing what he was talking about, I don't even read the Bible anymore, so try again, idiot. Try actually researching what I've said and what I believe, instead of addressign yourself to a religion I've elsewhere totally debunked.

[Lliam]

If you could only see how stupid YOU sound.

[DrPepper12]

You're wrong off the bat!! Quantum theory and special relativity provide exceptions at quantum level and speed of light

Why would we search for an order that is already quite real? Simple Bayesian probability and the Drake equation argue against a creator being necessary.

God is for weak, terrified people who need some sociopathic egotistical sadistic magic sky daddy to guide their behaviors through threats and punishment. It's WEIRD!!! Humans need to put their childish night light away and grow up!

[SeekerOfTruth007]

You won't believe this, but I've actually had the real God speak to me and tell me events a day, month, or even two years ahead of time and they came to pass exactly as he told me.

What do you say to that? Oh wait, now you will accuse me of being insane or lying, obviously.

[DrPepper12]

Yes. Anyone who claims to have spoken to God makes me check to see if my wallet is still there

[SeekerOfTruth007]

Then die and go to Hell if you like, guy. As for me, I'm going to serve God.

[DrPepper12]

There's no hell either compadre. Serve who you like but a lifetime on your knees for an imaginary sociopathic prick is inexplicable... Enjoy your day!

[on_my_knees]

Only a fool would argue that the existence of logical principles proves the existence of an all-powerful being. The omnipotence paradox is a well-known logical dilemma that proves that logic cannot approach or describe an omnipotent being. So, it is actually you who are doing the fool's errand.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

The Almighty Being created Logic. That's the point. The mere fact everything in the Universe runs on logic proves a MIND created it.

If you deny the existence of God, you are in fact denying all real science.

www.youtube.com/.../yJbwO_HV674

[SeekerOfTruth007]

Also, I can in fact describe quite a number of characteristics of THE Almighty Being, because language and Logic are in fact Transcendent principles.

The Almighty Being is maximized in every conceivable Attribute of itself. There's even physical evidence of this in the Universe, as the laws of the Universe are Maximized in every attribute.

The Almighty Being does not need food, water, or rest, and he does not need to die on a cross to forgive sins. He can simply speak forgiveness into existence, and then you are forgiven.

The Almighty Being cannot be evil, because only a Good Being can be self-consistent, and self-consistency is a maximized attribute.

The Almighty Being cannot lie or deceive you, not even for a good reason, because that would make him not be self-consistent, and then he wouldn't even exist in the first place. One reason catholics adopted both the Big Bang theory and the theory of evolution is because of the First Rule of Logic, which states that the Truth cannot contradict the Truth. Since Almighty is THE TRUTH, he cannot contradict himself.

I can go on if you like. An Almighty Being actually CANNOT clone himself nor can he even have any offspring, because the clone could never be the True Creator, and the clone could never be the First Cause, etc, and the Son of God could never become God, even if he did exist.

[on_my_knees]

Does God create stupid people because you are ridiculously stupid. You're putting limitations on an all-powerful being. First of all, an all poweful being is a logical paradox, as I just explained. Secondly, you're pretending to understand its attributes. You have zero authority to tell me what God can and can not do. You can't even prove God exists.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

You are applying a nonsensical definition of the word Omnipotent or Almighty. It literally says in the Bible that God does not change, does not repent, and does not lie and that he is incapable of doing evil.

NOTHING IN THE UNIVERSE CONTRADICTS ITSELF, THEREFORE THE FIRST CAUSE OF REALITY MUST NOT CONTRADICT ITSELF. Moreover, anything capable of Creating the Universe fromt he Big Bang meets a common-sense notion of the word "Almighty", so you are an IDIOT if you reject God.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

I have a 180+ IQ score on MENSA, assuming they still have records from 2001 online.

[on_my_knees]

If God is all powerful, then He can create a stone that not even He can lift. If not even God can lift the stone, then He is not all powerful. It's called the omnipotence paradox. Logic can not claim to prove the existence of an all-powerful being. You're wasting your time and everyone else's trying to prove God.

[on_my_knees]

You can not just create your own definition of Almighty. The Bible is full of contradictions, so you can not say it was written claim or be used as a source of truth. That's a false claum.

[on_my_knees]

*written by God

[SeekerOfTruth007]

You're an idiot. I've eye-witnessed divine prophecy come to pass and divine healings. You're wasting your time trying to stop me from arguing for the existence of God.

You don't know what the definition of Almighty Is. You're an atheist. You don't get to postulate what the definition of Almighty is. Dumbass.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

I already told you why your nonsense definition of Almighty doesn't work. If God made a stone too large to lift and then somehow lifted it, you would accuse him of being a LIAR.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

The dictionary definition of "The Almighty" says "Noun as in The Supreme Being".

Do you know what the word "Transcendent' means? It means God created Logic in such a way that it can in fact describe everything, including God himself.

Did you know it's actually possible to create "new" logical operators? C programmers do it all the time, and those operators are not actually "New"; They were always pre-ordained by God.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

On the other hand, if God does not create a stone too big to lift and then lift it anyway you also call me stupid and call Him a LIAR.

How about this? You are in fact the one being a liar and an unreasonable person, because you demand that God violate his own existence to prove he exists, which is NONSENSE.

I had a debate with one of you RETARDS about ten years ago who demanded God erase himself from reality and then come back from non-existence, and only then would he believe in God. That's how STUPID Atheists are.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

Have you ever heard of the word COVENANT? That is when God makes a promise and swears by his own existence to keep the promise. So he in fact limits some of his attributes by his other attributes: Truthfulness and Love limit his other attributes, for example, and that's a GOOD thing.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

That's a good thing, because if God was only goodness without mercy or love, then he'd be forced by his own righteousness to kill us and send us to Hell every time we sinned, but because of love and mercy we are not punished with what we DESERVE every time we sin or otherwise screw up.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

So an Almighty Being is in fact limited by his own Attributes, which I previously told you that already in the "Self-Consistency" section above. he does not punish us as much as we DESERVE because he has love and mercy. If we were all punished with what we DESERVE, then we'd all go to Hell forever.

So I have debunked your logical paradox baloney by showing that God has mercy and love, which limit his vengeance and even his justice.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

In order to not be a braggart, God must be Humble. So, we can see that the self-consistent good attributes of God forbid God from having evil attributes.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

If God was required to prove his almightiness by producing any feat you could hypothesize, that would be no different than Chaos, and I've already proven the Universe is not Chaotic. It obeys logical laws at all times.

[on_my_knees]

The difference between you and me is that I'm not trying to sit here pretending what God can and can not do. I have only pointed out that where a Logic itself fails. If Logic can not prove the existence of God, then it is pointless to argue about it. You are doing a fool's work.

[on_my_knees]

*pretending to know

[SeekerOfTruth007]

You are now incorrectly defining Logic. I already told you, Logic is a Transcendent principle. It can describe anything, including its own origin. Logic has an origin. The fact I'm even able to construct that sentence should give you pause, because it proves you wrong in claiming that Logic can't describe God.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

I'm not pretending to know anything, you liar. I am proving by LOGIC what the attributes of an Almighty Being necessarily are. You are the one using an irrational claim that logic can't describe God. You contradict yourself. You're just as self-defeated as Dawkins was when he tried to re-define "Nothing" in a debate several years back.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

"The Truth can't contradict the Truth."

You are making an illogical demand of God by demanding that he make a stone too big to lift and then lift it anyway, yet you think GOD is the one at fault for not "proving" himself to you by performing a completely NONSENSICAL action.

If that's why you reject God, then you are a MORON of the worst imaginable sort.

[on_my_knees]

If logic comes from God, then why are you having such a hard time proving God exists?

[on_my_knees]

You can't even form a rational argument. Therefore, this conversation is over.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

Die and go to Hell then, guy. You obviously would rather die lost than learn anything true anyway.

[goaded]

Is the Earth flat? Is there a dome over it? Are you this guy? Is the Earth Flat with a Dome?

[genericname85]

you're just regurgitating the age old argument from ignorance. "i do not understand the universe if god doesn't exist" is not an argument for god. never has been. never will be.

like it's fair not to understand the universe. i don't either. but that's not grounds for slipping a god in there xD

[HelpfulWoman]

its ironic.
with a god, its preached that we all "pop" into existence.
you're putting in wayyyyyyyyy too much importance in projecting why you personally need a god as a security blanket for your accepting of the science...

[HelpfulWoman]

but you've proved with this post it's only about what gets your god boner off. so have a nice day

[OddBeMe]

Nonsense. Special pleading and appeals to authority.

And I love when people “form the basis of all modern science.” I’ve heard that about 1000 different times for a 1000 different “axioms” they never get right.

Which is the same here. There are no LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE.

[normalice]

So, what is your question? It sounds like you just made some stuff up and then said if we can't prove some other made up stuff then God is real?

Just show us the divine magic that convinced you that divine magic exists. That's all we ask.

[Tim2nice]

Isn’t it ironic that Christians are right wing capitalists but the teachings of Jesus are purely socialist?

[SeekerOfTruth007]

I'm neither a christian nor a capitalist.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

The irony is real, I thought about it quite a few times, the answers to this puzzle I found are in how organized religion blended with politics to ensure its survival

[strateguy632]

You added a fallacy.

You are not basing yourself on any axiom. Just assuming someone made a law.

But just kuz i can "drop stuff" doesn't indicate someone makes it fall.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

I sympathize with your bitterness and anger, but we are not responsible for the shit done to you, we didn't do anything to provoke it, it's someone else 💜

[Anonymous]

It is the limitation of our human brains that makes us think that if there are laws in the universe, that means there must be a higher intelligence. There are possibilities that we cannot even possibly comprehend. That doesn't mean there's Divine revelation.

[EmmaMary]

Yet another load of complete and utter fucking Bollox... And another candidate for the white padded loony bin.