A look at the Men's Rights Movement (MRM) (Page 2)

[Regale]

The problem I have with feminism is that both men's rights activists and women's rights activists find oppression in situations where there is none. For example, a woman might complain that they rarely win rape cases, even though such charges are difficult to prove without a witness. Likewise, a man might claim that men rarely win domestic violence cases, even though the majority of incidents in which women are abusive toward men go unreported.

I identify myself as a feminist; I just think that most feminist activists focus their efforts in the wrong places. Sexism does exist, but it doesn't exist everywhere people seem to think it does.

[SomeOtherGuy]

I'd agree. I fall into the same category.
I do think anti-feminists who try to attack all of feminism do force the radical issues to be more illuminated. Because that's their strawman. That's the easiest thing to attack. They create this self-fulfilling prophecy.
If I walk into a chicken coop with 100 chickens, find the biggest, loudest one, and chase it around people are probably gonna think I'm chasing half the coop.

There is a lot of time spent bickering and fighting between MRMs and Feminists. It derails progress.

[GandalfTheGay]

i, for one, completely opt out of these shenanigans.
whenever someone mentions politics, rights, or any other subject with that passive aggressive tone of voice we all know too well, i just walk out of the room, and i hope you spare yourself as well.

i'm seeing a lot of statements like,
"in which they feel..."
as if you know them inside out.

" THEY want to destroy US!
THEY are evil!
THEY are the enemy!
you are either WITH US OR AGAINST US! "

[dartmaul15]

the fact you're expecting egalitarians to be mad at you just shows you have a small problem.

so is the fact you are writing a purely one-sided take, without a single source. Even worse is that you try to sell it as the truth, and atempt to shame people disagreeing with you and imply they're "proof" that you're right.

You also rely on talking them down to discredit them, when you could have reasily used proof and facts to do it. IF you are telling the truth.

TL:DR this take is a whole bunch of subjective bullshit that for all i know is pulled out of someone's arsehole. And the clearly subjective and biased angle on this, and the lack of sources, largely discredits it entirely to ANYONE knowing what to look for when determining if an article is serious or not.

Have a nice day, and take the black pill instead.

[myTake Owner]

Do you feel better now?

[dartmaul15]

do you?

[myTake Owner]

I'm not the one with hurt feelings.

[dartmaul15]

just did a quick evaluation of the credibility of your take, and pointed out points in your rethoric worthy of criticism.

you do that with serious texts lke these to determine their reiability

[Rawrzz]

Ma ii. I am an anti-feminist. So long as my liberties aren't being significantly suppressed, I ultimately don't care. I will argue my points, usually, but I believe it is women's job to balance the scales of equality. Because people, possibly like you, will simply laugh at any male who says he has some shit rough. Because it's his responsibility to deal with his shit, but women are weak so they need help.

Though, I don't know if you see the equivalency between your definition of MRAs and their definition of feminism. Perhaps, for instance, the "invisible glass ceiling" that prevents women from gaining positions of power or influence or income? The supposed "patriarchal agenda" versus what you call the MRAs suspect of the "radical feminist agenda."

[ALittleBlondeGirl]

"Anti-feminist".. You mean 'misogynist'.

[Rawrzz]

Believe what you want, little girl. You would do well to learn that you know nothing, as Socrates. Feminism is not a synonym for equality, kid. One can be pro-gender-equality and also be an anti-feminist. Anti-feminism is not anti-woman. Anti feminism is anti feminism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRsYwu8uD4I

[ALittleBlondeGirl]

Feminism = equality for both genders.

If you are anti-feminist, then you are anti-women.

Which makes you a misogynist.

[Rawrzz]

And what if feminism didn't equal equality for both genders? So, according to you, I'm a misogynist if feminism is truly about equality for both genders. Okay. I believe that feminism is not about equality, at all. I believe that feminism tends to not give half a fuck about men and degrades women.

The base notion of feminism is that women were oppressed for *hundreds of thousands* of years. Okay. Is there a better argument for female inferiority?

Females were the *only* group to never fight against their oppressors? At least, not until a virtual eyeblink ago? In essence, the fundamental principle of feminism is that women are stupid and weak, and men are ultra-dominating and evil. Or was it that women didn't feel the need to rise up against "oppressors"? Perhaps they preferred to do housework than work 16 hours in the hot sun or die in a mine or die laying railroad tracks or otherwise die en masse.

For one, why would I post a video of a woman making an argument, if I hated women?

[ALittleBlondeGirl]

Because she could have no respect for herself and be a misogynist as well.

[Rawrzz]

So, basically, anyone who doesn't agree with you is a misogynist. Well. We believe what we believe. Believe whatever you like. I've stated my opinion. The end.

[jjmarvin]

Egalitarianism supports both women's and men's equality movements along with all other equality movements. But it suffers the same incorrect assumptions as feminism, those assumptions being, "you're all big meanies! I met someone who called themselves that and they said something bad!" to which i respond, "you cam only define an idea by its actual definition. If the philosophy of egalitarianism is to campaign for the rights of all citizens then that's what it is, no matter how many stupid people misinterpret it."

For example, if you've ever said "i don't agree with feminism, I'm an egalitarian" then you are not an egalitarian, and it's likely you met someone who is also misinterpreting feminism.

Just a note to all.

[myTake Owner]

I actually wrote a myTake on that and quite a few egalitarians/equalitarians responded on why they were justified in being anti-feminist. That's why I included that end note.

[Lisa2521]

Actually I hate feminism, and I hate MRM and such movements, because they make us enemies while we actually complete each others and no gender can survive alone.
I believe women were extremely discriminated and they needed to defend themselves in a way or another, I believe in gender equality, but I don't think feminism did anything but making men hate them!
I think the solution for gender racism is to put it in our education system, and parents should teach their daughters that they're not sex tools or maids for anyone, and their sons that they should respect girls and women in the future, spread equality and beat discrimination without the word "feminist" , I think this word make it worse because it means that everyone believes in gender equality is propositional to feminine's side while they just wanted justice.

[SomeOtherGuy]

Pretty much. Feminism isn't all bad. There's good parts. But it's not equipped to help men gain the consideration they need in society. Something that would help progress gender equality and give women more consideration as well.

Unfortunately there aren't any movements I know of that unite both genders.

[SomeOtherGuy]

Let me rephrase part of that. If society gave men the consideration they deserved, it would benefit both sexes, including women. It'd be win-win.
Feminism is not equipped to consider men because then men are hijacking feminism. It doesn't work.
It's not about respecting girls, it's about respecting people. Teach people that sex isn't a bad thing, and not having sex isn't a bad thing. That we should be allowed to take on the role we're best meant for in our relationships.

[Lisa2521]

@SomeOtherGuy I agree

[Darkbrunette96]

In my State Washington Men hardly EVER get to keep their kids during a divorce, not even joint custody. I really wish people would throw their Cards away here are the following:' I am a damsel in distress who has done nothing', Oh no your putting me in Jail because I'm, Black, White, Asian Mexican whatever! Feminism is more bad than good. I support women and men. Yeah it's really unfair that women don't make as much money as men. Did you know less attractive people make 30% less than hot people. Thank God, my dad waited until my age now to Divorce my fucking crazy mom. She is mentallly ill and denies her abuse and neglect. My dad is an amazing man aren't all ENFJ'S seriously he's amazing: Open minded, smart, kind loving and nice etcc could go on forever.

[The_Other_Man]

Father rights are the most frustrating to me. can't stand it.

False rape crap... only 2% of all sexual assault cases against men actually lead to charges/convictions.

Divorce; just have a good lawyer, sign your pre-nups and make sure everything is split evenly. You just need to show that you are getting an unfairly raw end of the deal to the courts.

I don't really know enough about domestic violence against men to make a good argument.

It should be called a humanist movement. Fair rights for all humans, gender shouldn't be an issue in the 21st century.

[bluenose1872]

This whole gender battle is designed to get us at each others throats. The west is mainly white. If they encourage the sexes to hate each other well look elsewhere for sexual partners. It's happening now. White women sleep with any Tom dick or harry in the world. Men are doing it too. We're being demonised to each other. The only way well sort it is not to get officials involved in your lives. I see my kids whenever I want, I pay her money to support them and we still get on just fine. Never let a nonce judge or a uniform or they scabby social workers anywhere near our lives. When will people realize this world isn't about equality and happiness. there's snakes hiding in the shadows paying a lot of money to political whips to push through policy that is subtely changing the modern world. There won't be a white race in a couple of hundred years time if you don't get a grip and start shunning these bastards. We shouldn't consider ourselves as separate or in contention. We need each other

[SomeOtherGuy]

Can't tell if you're a traditional racist or just bad wording.
41.media.tumblr.com/.../...4Tqsx1scgs08o1_1280.jpg

[bluenose1872]

@SomeOtherGuy can't tell if your stupid or just caught up in the usual pc bullshit

[SomeOtherGuy]

Ah so racist. Got it. Boy you sure sound like an angry, unhappy fellow. Life must not be going your way.

[bluenose1872]

@SomeOtherGuy another smug, condescending idiot on this site who mistakes sarcasm for wit. My life's perfect mate. At least I know what side my breads buttered. I'm white and that's who I identify with. Unlike shells like you. The new ages bitches. We're under attack from real racists whilst big girls like wring your feminine hands and moan about racism. They don't like you pal. If your white pal they don't like you, none of them. Get a fuckin reality ya dafty

[SomeOtherGuy]

Man, you sure don't like people talking to you. You must not think highly of yourself if you feel everyone is talking down on you.
You sound like you have a lot to prove and are very eager to prove it. Do you always give this 110% aggression to every minor provocation?
You sure you're happy and your life is perfect? Your cynicism seems to suggest a different story.

[John_Doesnt]

You forgot job discrimination and dress code discrimination against dudes. I've always wanted to be a fashion and make-up artist, but people think that only gay guys and women can do the job. I've literally been laughed at when I took college courses on fashion/cosmetics because I said I was serious. The women class mates even asked if I was gay.

As for the discrimination against dress code: it's perfectly acceptable for a woman to wear any type of men's clothing and nobody will question it, some may find it sexy/rebellious. But if a guy wore anything that looked remotely feminine we get mistreated and called "gay". I'm a completely straight guy, but most of my desires for career and dressing the way I feel are hampered by today's society.

[TheLoverNotHater]

What I think? Screw them both. I just wanna live my life without trouble. Will it mean hating on girls? Probably. Will it mean hating on guys? Probably as well. Whatever is less troublesome at the time. Now I'm not gonna say it out loud (oops). That'll make things even more troublesome. Just marry a girl who wants the same things I do and knocks me on the head whenever I do something stupid. And accepts I'll do the same to her. Want a kid or two (there goes my sleep... yaaaay kids...). Watch them grow up and get married. Die alongside my wife and be remembered as an awesome dad and husband.
Or screw all that, go to war, and die like a total badass in a series of painful explosions saving millions of lives.
... Nah.

[Berethor]

Men's Rights Movement was made only after the First-wave Feminism, which was the only wave that was wanting an real equal rights and not man hating bullshit and special treatment for women, and I don't think that it's an coincidence, and that is why Men's Rights Movement is generally makes much more sense then Modern Feminism.

en.wikipedia.org/.../First-wave_feminism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOjpZdi8HBQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDzPP5I12xM

[Anonymous]

My uncle was abused by my aunt. She broke a bone in his foot, and burst one of his ear drums. They had been arguing in raised voices but my uncle didn't lay a finger on her. The neighbers called the police and my uncle spent the night in a cell.
A divorce later and my aunt has custody of the children. He sees them on weekends and when she can't be bothered to have them. She works 15 hours a week as a receptionist to maximise her tax credits and child benefit. Meanwhile my uncle downgrades his job. He did this so he wouldn't have to pay child support to his wife.
9 years later his 16 year old daughter drops out of school and is pregnant.

Where was the justice? This is why I will never marry.

[Other_Tommy_Wiseau]

your uncle needs a better lawyer.

[Cookies_AndMilk]

I'm so sorry for him. Everything you've said is just terrible. An evil woman like that shouldn't frighten you from marriage though. A woman who has an amazing relationship with her father, preferably a better one than with her mom is going to be a dream. A woman with a healthy view of men and a love and appreciation for them would never do something like that.

[Opinion Owner]

Cookies_AndMilk thats the thing. This isn't a rare story. The amount of men getting *ucked over by divorce is very high. Its just not worth it.

[ALittleBlondeGirl]

"We can do it!"

Do what? You already have everything. Give girls a chance. Men have ran the American country for centuries, men get to keep their last name in marriage, certain companies pay men more money than women for working the same job, men aren't slut shamed, men don't have the government and society trying to force them to go through an unwanted pregnancy and give birth, etc..

[hellionthesage]

Men are slut shamed, men do not get paid more then women and in fact in some cases women get paid more then men like in STEM fields (thanks to the female quota, which does not exist for men). Men do have the government and society forcing them to go through unwanted pregnancies thats why men by law have to pay child support irregardless of them wanting to be a father while a woman can get an abortion by law whenever they wish without legal ramification. In fact women can even abandon their children (thanks to safe haven laws) or give them up for adoption ( in some places without even notifying the father) meanwhile a man has to pay child support or he will be imprisoned against his will, so a woman actually has more rights in this regard. Men being politicians is not the same as men ruling the country, 1% of the population is not representetive of 50% of the population. We in fact have very little if you look at the laws that only benefit women, usually at the expense of men.

[SomeOtherGuy]

@hellionthesage First off, addressing the quota.
This may be lengthy.
It's also an observation, and while statistics exist that prove certain points in the observation, I haven't looked for conclusive evidence of the observation itself. It's just a logical conclusion.

First you must understand the history of the United States. Rich, white plantation owners and political figures ran the country. Because it was a colony by white British people. They brought slaves over, sure. But the only one allowed much of any wealth were the British who had came over as nobles.

Simple enough. We can all agree about U. S. history.

[SomeOtherGuy]

The next point of consideration is your class (wealth). Recently society has created more ways to gain wealth. However, it is still a difficult thing for people of lower class to move to a higher class. People born poor often stay poor. People who are born rich have a better chance of becoming richer.

Even with the affordances offered to people who are poor, it is still unlikely that poor people will increase their wealth and move up from their class. There's many reasons for this, so I won't go into it. But basically the poor really do stay poor and the rich really do get richer.

So what does this mean? Well the rich white plantation owners created a dynasty of wealth. White people, being born into this wealth, stayed rich. Black people were never allowed access to tools that would allow them to gain wealth.
The Irish also came over poor, and a lot of Irish descendants are actually still poor.

[SomeOtherGuy]

There's a lot of other things in history. Women also were only allowed access to their husbands wealth, traditionally, and had no means to create their own.

It's not that rich white males are keeping everyone out. There is no conspiracy. It's just the nature of society. But it is not a nature that benefits society. Intelligent people are born into poverty, and stupid people are born into wealth. It's not a beneficial system.

Thus, the quota and many of the programs aimed at women and minorities. They're a way to fix societies shortcomings until society has fixed the issue of wealth distribution. They're temporary systems that will probably last a generation or two. They're not meant to be permanent.

I left out a TON of other information that support this because of character limits. I've done research on this subject, independently.

The quota doesn't allow under-qualified people a job. That's not a real thing.
Someone more qualified may not get the job over a woman or minority tho.

[hellionthesage]

@SomeOtherGuy Well, you neglected to mention the 30000 irish slaves and that their where black slave owners in america (not many but they did exist). But yes slavery was for the rich (in fact many of the poor where against it, ironicly as they are against illegal immigrants, because it took jobs and by extention money from them.) and that yes they tended to be white (the politicians) but as you said it was the intial British aristocracy, all other groups where viewed as inferior (irish, italians, etc.) I would also agree with the poor getting/staying poor and the rich rich. That is actually becoming more of an issue with the destruction of the middle class that seems to be occuring now. Only a small percentage of whites where rich so it is erroneous to equate general wealth to the small percentage of wealthy whites. In fact that would be the equivalent of saying that since their are rich black men now, then the majority population should be as well. Further more you over look the fact that

[hellionthesage]

@SomeOtherGuy that whites make up the majority at about 63% of the population and blacks make up only 12.3% ergo by default their will always be more rich whites (there is actually also more poor whites as well). Percentage wise however yes their are more rich whites but it does not correlate to the percentages of rich whites of the past ie it was not due to "old money" but "new money". Many white immigrints made their way up to the upper and middle economic levels long after slavery was abolished (which occured in america long before it occured in the middle east and africa) and having no relation to the original rich upper class. According to Thomas sowell blacks where actually better off prior to WWII, supposedly having a higher rate of employment then then they do now. ( www.nationalreview.com/.../slavery-didnt-cause-todays-black-problems-welfare-did )
Their are plenty of successful irish in our society, people who are in fact very well off despite coming from modest means, I know because I am related to many of them.

[hellionthesage]

as for the quotas and supposed wage gap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv0KbQT1dvc
Women could make money on their own and in fact did. We have documents showing that their where female blacksmiths in england dating back to the 14 hundreds, we know women worked all the time. The only time they where limited was if they chose to marry and that was because by marring they where trading resources and protection from the man in exchange for men having exclusive procreative rights with them. This was a choice, not forced (this is not to say family did not pressure them, only that it was not legally required) This was to the benefit of all parties. By law the man was required to care for the woman until the day he died (and thanks to things like pentions even after that). By law mind you, he was required to take on any and all of her debts even if it landed him in prison (hence her money becomning his because it became his responsibility not hers). To suggest otherwise is to give a one sided view of history.

[hellionthesage]

@SomeOtherGuy I never said a person who was under qualified for the job would be excepted, they will chose the best candidate, unless they require a female or minority in which case they will chose them over a more qualified person. In the stem fields where women generally do not major in (by choice mind you) women are given higher starting pay then men to entice them to these occupations which is unfair to those men who worked just as hard or harder to get where they are. This creates inequality to an extreme degree and is by definition sexist as it favors one gender (woman) over the other (men). Yet fields like physcology, teaching and social work which are dominated by women have no quotas for men again creating greater inequality. Then you factor in that women are supposedly more oppressed financially yet comprise 80% of national spending in the US (70% world wide) and one must conclude that the data being presented is egregiously flawed. This amongst all the other issues mentioned.

[SomeOtherGuy]

@hellionthesage You have a handful of points here that are fairly accurate.
However, just like I had to point out in another of our discussions, you seem to be mixing up a lot of cause and effect.

For one thing, you tread a blurry line between choice and force. If I have the choice of eating my dinner or having the living shit smacked out of me, I certainly have a choice, but I would argue that the choice is more of an illusion.

As well, Freed blacks did own slaves, but not for the reasons or extent that you may think.

Further, some blacksmiths were indeed women. But they often inherited these roles from being widowed, or being the only child available to inherit their fathers property. It still wasn't orthodox, and it was more about necessity than anything.

[SomeOtherGuy]

The benefit of the parties is also arguable. It may be a means of survival, but it was certainly not about being happy and healthy. It was more about politics and trade, void of humanity.
The poor actually enjoyed more free marriage and often did so out of love and happiness, as well as necessity.

As for your issues men face with unequal consideration, I have gone over that in a billion posts on here. I agree that men need consideration when it comes to a lot of issues. Being encouraged to take positions dominated by women is certainly something that would help. There is an under-appreciation for jobs that require soft skills.

However I do feel you are conflating the numbers a bit much. While they're high enough to warrant change, you tend to have this ring-the-bells-and-alert-the-authorities-were-going-down-in-flames approach. It's hard to take serious.
I agree change needs to happen, and in this generation. But don't lose your cool about it or no one will listen.

[hellionthesage]

@SomeOtherGuy Again you say that its wrong, then promptly refuse to explain why or use evidence to back it which as I stated previously is not a very good argument. If I am wrong prove it, by all means I want to know the truth however thus far you have only provided opinion and vague assurances that what I am saying is incorrect but apparently its not important enough for you to actually bother proving. Evidence is paramount in a debate. As for freed black slave owners, yes, they did own slaves for the same reason everyone else owned them, for the same reason African slave owners owned slaves for the same reason African slavers sold slaves, and for the same reason middleastern slave owners owned slaves. Whites are not the devil, they did not invent slaver, they did not treat slaves worse while other slavers where benevolent (in fact quite the opposite, your odds of survival where best with a white slaver then any other). In fact slave is derived from the name salvic ie a group of

[hellionthesage]

@SomeOtherGuy caucasians due to how frequently they where enslaved by others (yes, their where in fact many white slaves despite what modern society likes to claim). You claim that women working was rare, yet we know that is not true, as I mentioned previously. Women chose whether or not they worked that was the difference between men and women, men HAD to work, women CHOSE to work. Women could and did work in many proffesions (in the late 17 early 1800s women where actually banned from working in mines, the reason being it was deemed to dangerous (not for the men working it apparently)) So if you make the claim that this was not the case please back it with evidence. I have no idea what you are reffering to by "parties" or the marriage remark. (same goes for your remark about force and choice, I don't know what your reffering to) As for your dismissal of me being an alarmist, I am not, I stated the statistical facts that is all, if you find them to be alarming then that is your choice

[hellionthesage]

@SomeOtherGuy to make, but again that is your perception of hard data and not my opinion. As for jobs, why would we try and force men into jobs they do not wish to be in? We already have tried that with women and it hasn't worked, in fact its made things worse for everyone involved. Men and women are different, we know this to be true. They look at the world differently and are interested in different things, no one barred women from the stem fields anymore then men where barred from phsycology, it is choice that has created this so called "imbalance", an imbalance that has not adversley affected our society until we attempted to force people into occupations they do not wish to be apart of. Many science programs where shut down in england because of to few women being in them, so called sexism, despite all their efforts to encourage women to join them. This in turn prevented a lot of men from joining those programs hurting them and society because of this unfair and sexist approach.

[hellionthesage]

@SomeOtherGuy The fact is you have thus far provided no evidence to back any of your claims, you tell me I am wrong (perfectly exceptable) then proceed to move on completely refusing to explain why with reason and evidence (not exceptable). This makes for a poor argument as I have evidence to back my claims and you refuse to present anything, if you have an argument prove it, as I said before an argument is only as good as the evidence that backs it, so far you have no evidence and thus no argument.

[SomeOtherGuy]

@hellionthesage I don't treat my sources of op-ed pieces and youtube videos as scholarly, scientific proof of my ideas. Don't get me wrong, hearing an expert talk about his findings can be enlightening and lead to very important conclusions. And some of those conclusions are hard fact.
But not every single one.

As for women in the middle ages and victorian/industrial era yes, a lot of them did work. Especially in the lower class because they had to work. If I had 10 daughters and 3 sons as a farmer, I'm not gonna be able to feed my 10 daughters if I only make my 3 sons works.
It's logical that women, especially middle and lower class, worked.

But it's a much different environment than now. Women work now for independence. They keep a lot of their money. Prior, women worked for their family, as part of their family business.
But women were still barred from a lot of jobs, especially more specialized jobs that required a higher education.

[SomeOtherGuy]

Also @hellionthesage Please be aware that social studies and social sciences are very messy, evolving subjects. Data gets outdated quickly. Conclusions are difficult to draw accurately. There is plenty of fact, but whether the outcome was a healthy or unhealthy society is debatable.

It can be very abstract. Sure we know men held most the frontline jobs of the military and women did not, but we also know there were exceptions. It's very difficult to understand why, and often the conclusions of why become splintered.

[SomeOtherGuy]

When I'm talking about choice and force, I'm referring to your statement that women were married to be protected by the man while giving up procreative rights to him.
Benefit of parties was meant to be benefits of marriage for the woman.

Anyways, your point was an interesting one and I'm glad I looked into certain parts of it. It makes very compelling arguments to women being valuable in all parts of the workforce. It also is a compelling argument that women have always been a part of the working class, and have a place outside of raising kids and being homemakers.

[SomeOtherGuy]

Also plenty of men would like to be in jobs such as psychology, counseling, teaching and nursing. And many are. However people like you, who say men should not be in those jobs, as well as the low pay for those jobs, makes men and their families hesitant. Largely society keeps them out.

Many women would also love to be pastors and high-ranking religious figures, but they are also barred from that despite having the same necessary skillsets to do it as their male counterparts.

Have you ever met a broad shouldered woman who probably weighed as much as most men? Because I have. Plenty of them. They'd be just fine working in plants and fisheries and things of the like. They're often not allowed because of men.

Also more men are in crafts and trade? Most of the etsy shops I've seen suggest otherwise. :/

[Rawrzz]

Women were so weak and men are so strong, that we keep women down. Women are inferior, which is why they can't even fight back. Why they've been oppressed for hundreds of thousands of years, unlike every other class of people who were oppressed, women were the only ones constantly held down. Female inferiority?

As you tell it, women are weak, stupid, and inferior. Men "have everything"--which, no, we don't--but saying we do means that women are weak and submissive in contrast to dominating, intelligent, and powerful men. Out of you and I, I think you're closer to being a misogynist and misandrist than I. Because I don't believe any of that.

Also. It's illegal to discriminate. If companies could pay women less money to do the same job, they would fire all the men and only hire women. But they don't, do they? And women could fight it.

And... Men are forced to pay child support for an unwanted baby. Further, we're also forced to go to war. You clearly don't care about men or women.

[SomeOtherGuy]

@Rawrzz It's also illegal to exchange sex with a subordinate for a promotion. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Or that people don't get away with it.

You seem like you haven't read a single word of anything I've wrote except through your own lense of illogical conclusions. I obviously didn't say those things. And you know I didn't. So stop pretending like I did.

Obviously, throughout history women have shared a lot of the work. It's easy to forget that. Sure. The biggest exception to this has been in the upper class.

Women have, historically, been barred or discouraged from higher education. As well as politics. A lot of fields actually. Men, not so much.
Can't tell you why. But obviously "Men are superior" is not a logical conclusion.
We were more mired down by tradition then than we are now.
Honestly I'm sure there's some information out there that explains these systems. But I have yet to find them.
It can be said that women did not have very men rights though.

[SomeOtherGuy]

Anyways you seem like a rabid MGTOW or MRA or something. One of the really illogical, hate-filled ones that I'd rather not get entrenched talking to.
Honestly. I don't think you have any idea what I've said at all...
Women aren't being paid less per hour spent working. That's not where the pay gap is. It's a lot more socially complex than most people give it credit for. But they'll jump all over it with their misconstrued ideas pretty quickly.

Consider perhaps reading some of the other shit I've wrote before you go hopping in here, foaming at the mouth and spouting nonsense like an enraged teenager. You're 25 man. Get a grip of yourself.

[LilWeezey]

Pretty sure a woman can keep her last name after marriage if she decides so. And if its such a big issue to her she should find a more accepting partner. They are out there.

There are also bigger fish to fry than being "oppressed" because your husband wants you to take on his name

[Accipiter]

The MRM is despicable as they buy into the same "Woe is me, I'm a victim" propaganda and mentality that feminism perpetuates. MRM and modern Feminism are just divide and conquer tactics to turn men and women against each other for political schemes. It's a real shame how many guys and girls buy into their crap.

[Accipiter]

To clarify, feminism and The MRM are two faces on the same coin.

[Dillon0022]

The Red Pill: a feminist’s journey into the Men’s Rights Movement - a documentary film by Cassie Jaye. its releasing until in the fall of 2016

https://youtu.be/YDxKBuSkoxY

maybe it will change your view

[Anonymous]

I've never heard of this group before. But I do feel like all the issues you talked about are issues men have to deal with when it comes to equality. The only one I don't believe to be true is the percentage given for false rape, 50% is high and around 10% or so sounds right. Really though I can't tell if this is a pro MRA take or against it. But I do believe both genders have equality issues as do trans people, and those are some issues that need to be addressed for men.

[myTake Owner]

It isn't pro-MRA. I thought it would be fair if I provided info on what some claim they fight for in addition to what they are primarily known for (good and bad).

[Anonymous]

I agree with this but at the end you completely left out white males. you only said trans men and black men. Also, we are campaigning against feminism, we just think its just plain bull s*** in western countries. Woman, according to tons of studies, have it actually better than men by quite a bit. What we DO think should happen is the feminists go help the countries that actually NEED IT like in the middle east where women and girls get stoned for being raped, rape is legal, and girls are being considered to be allowed to get married at age 9. THAT is where feminism is needed, NOT in the US where they are complaining about a so called "rape culture" like in the middle east. If they want to know what a REAL rape culture is they should go to the middle east.

[SomeOtherGuy]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15216426
Even the study of CAH only indicates a change in play behavior and orientation and gender identity, but never a change in gender roles.

[SomeOtherGuy]

Ignore this. Infact, remove this. It was meant to go on an Opinion Comment.

[myTake Owner]

I'll report it but I doubt they'll remove it. :/

[SomeOtherGuy]

Thanks. I reported it too. We'll see. Would be lame to just have this random bit of nonsensical spam floating here. (Which is why I reported it as spam)

[Snoopiee]

What's wrong with being against feminism? As soon as a man or woman says they are against feminism you suddenly hate women 😂😂

Feminists are genuinely some of the BIGGEST hypocritical, cry babies, I have ever had the misfortune to meet. They are always talking about men being afraid of women being in power but if a man were to say women are afraid of men being in power (which is true). It would be a big problem

Feminism is stupid and so is the person who created this take...

[myTake Owner]

Calling me stupid but you failed to understand the myTake. Hmmm...