Major Change Never Happens Without Violent Action

[BigPunny]

I can't think of a single moment in history when major social or governmental change was brought by peaceful, passive resistance. Not one.

When this topic comes up, many Americans will say that being peaceful is the only way to be heard. Then the crowds leave as those same people head back to their low-paying jobs while they struggle to put food on their table, a roof over their heads, and clothes on their back.

Then another opportunity arises for them to "be a part of change" by waving banners, chanting catchy phrases, and getting caught up in the majestic protests and marches that have now become a daily occurrence.

But all the while, the very thing they protest continues and more liberties are lost in the process, because the powers-that-be think tightening the noose more will get us to chill out.

All throughout history, these protests come and go. Protesting racial problems start peacefully enough. Protesting authoritarian problems start peacefully enough. The fight for independence starts peacefully enough, but eventually....inevitably... a spark ignites the fuel and the explosion is triggered.

MLK is often cited when speaking of the importance of being non-violent. He had a dream. . . then he was murdered. Gandhi is also cited as the reason we should be non-violent. "Civil Disobedience" they shout as they are pepper-sprayed and tear-gassed while handcuffed to each other in a circle, unable to defend themselves due to their own tactic.

Then we had Watts. Then they had WWII and the need to trim British fat by letting colonies go. Watts was violent... very violent. WWII was violent, but was the catalyst with which the trimming began.

Not MLK. Not Gandhi. Is it important to start peacefully? Absolutely. In fact, I believe it's necessary to provide context to the inevitable violence that is sure to ensue. But the fact remains: change doesn't come until violent insurrection or violent measures happen.

The government doesn't care about you... The government doesn't care about me... The government cares about itself - it cares about maintaining its importance... its power. The government spews the propaganda that non-violent protests is the only way they'll listen, even though they continue doing the things millions protest against.

The MSM spews the rhetoric of peaceful resistance, all while covering up the countless murders perpetrated by the government, because as we see, it's okay for the government to be violent against us - we just aren't allowed to be violent against it.

The time has come to acknowledge that our country will not change without violent encounters with the darkest parts of human nature. It is an unfortunate truth that no one ever wants to talk about, but it is the truth.

We tell ourselves it's not true because the consequences of the violence are horrible, horrific, and shameful. But the outcome is the goal. The people of the US are not being listened to. We aren't being taken seriously. Our constant pleas for change while we obey the laws our government has placed on us are ignored.

I hate to be the person to say this, because I have always called for peaceful protesting and a peaceful redress of grievances, but at some point it's time to say that's not working, and when that time comes, the best thing to do is acknowledge that it has gotten to that point and make sure the very people who are terrorizing us know that we're not going to sit back and let ourselves be enslaved anymore.

Some times the time to fight comes and you must ask yourself - are you ready and willing to fight for the country you want? Or will you just cower and obey?

Only you can answer that question.

[Anonymous]

Economics speak louder than violence, IMHO. You get violent, you're dead. Not to mention, you're just fighting other low level citizens. Most cops are from blue collar families and many don't make that much money. Much less the brave firefighters and EMTs who become targets for being "the man" SMH.

You throw a wrench in the economic system and even important people want to fix it.

[jacquesvol]

Blue collar people fighting other low level citizens? That's what billionaires want.

[front2back]

You're implying cops aren't brave? Just because a few of them are trigger happy?

[Opinion Owner]

No, the majority of cops are brave and conscientious people too, I wasn't implying that. My point is that the bottom are fighting the bottom here.

[front2back]

Pretty much. My whole theory is that it's really more of socioeconomic status that determines how people are respected, rather than race or sex.
But at least in my city, cops here make very decent livings, and you don't really hear often about bad things involving police here.

[Opinion Owner]

Everyone keeps throwing around the Black Panthers lately... Look at what they did that works:

web.stanford.edu/.../programs.shtml

Guerilla community service, anyone? Get those boots on the ground helping out and your dollars in your community to make an impact.

[BigPunny]

You're correct 'technically', but the problem with your assertion is that the police are the enforcement arm of the wealthy in this nation.

They do as they're told (like most employed Americans do) because they want a paycheck. The government uses economic struggle to ensure that Americans continue doing as they're told, because if they don't, missing that one paycheck will devastate a person's life - including police.

Thanks for the comment.

[Opinion Owner]

I know. I wish I had the answers.

I do hope that everyone who is outraged or disillusioned will go be some of their time and if they have it, money, to community outreach. Be a tutor, pick up trash, lead a Girl Scout troop or mentor through Boys and Girls Club, help start a community garden, deliver with Meals on Wheels, etc.

[AlphaMale1]

Humans are a species that to this day continue to engage in tribal warfare. We are a murdering, evil species. Every one of us is capable of doing unthinkable acts if put in the right situation.

If everyone were allowed to kill one person I believe the human race would go the way of the dinosaur as most people would act on it.

[KittieCat]

I wonder what's going to happen in the neae future with all of these killings against citizens and law enforcement. I'm tired of seeing #AllLivesMatter #BlueLivesMatter and #BlackLivesMatter. At this point it should be #ColorsMatter. I think there will be more violence but I'm curious is to if it will be effective in changing anything.
Being completely honest, if the stereotypical ghetto-uneducated people get violent I seriously dount anything will happen and make it worse if anything. We'll see what happens though

[BigPunny]

You make a very good point, one that I've written and spoken about at length, and that is that the race-baiting is actually harming the cause, but only because it's further dividing this nation.

The fact is that police can kill us for even the smallest thing and walk away without so much as a slap on the wrist - and that goes for everyone. Yes, it's true that police fear black people unnecessarily, which leads to poor decision-making, but we really need to focus on the fact that EVERYONE is at risk here - not just black people.

If the race-baiting continues, what once could have been a revolution by the people may well turn into a civil war, because neither side wants to concede to each other's perspective. It's a sad fact that sometimes the truth should be swallowed for purposes of solidarity.

No one wants to be called, or suggested that they are, racist. When they feel like they're being called racist, they will push back against whatever the cause is, no matter how bad the sit

[BigPunny]

*no matter how bad the situation is*

[Emberremembers]

No, every just needs more kittens😸

For reals tho, people look out for #1 and their crew and don't give a fuck about anyone else. That's just a fact of life And the government are the same way. Trumps and Hillarys have their crews (or minions) and those people fight eachother like gangs but with politics instead of drive-bys. We're not even in the same part of town they are by comparison. They're rich and powerful and they just use us to spout rants about shit they'll never do and then as long as we can Netflix and chill we could care less. They start wars and then us little people like my brother have to go to Iraq and shoot people who weren't even bothering us. But then we Netflix and chill again and all the problems go away.

And that's how it works. You want anerica to rise up and kill the government but they're too big so it'll never happen.

[crimsonqueen]

MLK spread his message through love, not hate. Ghandi. Nelson Mandela built bridges and turned the other cheek.

That's how change happens. The violence accomplishes nothing. It's a hiccup of change. And it's unnecessary.

For the record, statistics don't really back up the whole idea of White cops killing Black kids. It's a perceptual thing. It's not based in hard facts.

[jacquesvol]

@crimsonqueen
Stats do back it up. Twice as many unarmed black as unarmed whites are killed by cops, indeed. Justice? Equality? NO: there are SIX times as many whites as blacks.
Ethnic groups: white 79.96%, black 12.85%, Asian 4.43%.
(source: www.cia.gov/.../us.html
IF the shootings were equal, SIX times as many unarmed whites as unarmed blacks would be victims. Simple math

[BigPunny]

One thing that I should have emphasized more in the article is the need for non-violent resistance prior to violent action, and that's an important distinction because violence without years of peaceful attempts prior to said violence is nothing more than violence. But violence after years of peaceful attempts is given context and produces positive change, versus simply becoming violent.

However, it's also worth pointing out that MLK, while necessary, was not the person who obtained rights for black people. It wasn't until the Watts riots that it really turned around.

And for Gandhi - he actually did nothing to bring independence to India... WWII was responsible for the de-colonization of the British empire. After WWII they were broke and had to borrow money from the US. Because of that, they had to trim the fat, and they relinquished all non-communist countries to the people of those countries... And India just happened to be one of them, but even then, Britain split it in two.

[crimsonqueen]

@jacquesvol So are you going to bring up the fact that Blacks are only 13% of the population and yet commit almost 40% of violent crimes? Whereas Whites make up about 70% of the population and commit about 30% of violent crimes? FBI stats, by the way.

Also, the fact that in 2015 50% of people shot by police were White, according to a study published by the Washington Post.

Or does that have no bearing on your narrative? Because it seems to me that would be pretty relevant info.. unless you want the facts to fit your conclusion.

Which I personally don't by the way. I have no problem acknowledging a problem. But I'm not going to pretend one into existence.

[jacquesvol]

The innocent victims are NOT responsible for what others do, if these others happen to have the same color of skin.

[crimsonqueen]

@jacquesvol you never said anything about innocence. You really think a large percentage of those people police shot are innocent? That's naive for 69 xD

[BigPunny]

@crimsonqueen
Your statement connotes that not being innocent should be met with execution-by-cop.

I think this is also a problem of societal acceptance of death by government's enforcement of many arbitrary and freedom-restrictive laws.

Think about it - someone does something illegal and a cop happens to also be in fear of mere bodily harm (no weapon) - the public seems to think it's okay to kill the person.

o.0 It makes me scratch my head that this country has such a propensity for violent reaction, deadly reaction.

Death sentences should be handed down by a court of law, not by a cowardly officer.

[crimsonqueen]

That's not what I said at all and it wasn't even implied. But sometimes cops have to use their weapon. Wanna know why? Because sometimes it's kill or be killed. And all the nice ideas about "non violence" coming from arm chair critics aren't going to raise a cop's kids when he or she gets killed in the line of duty.

And yes, sometimes it's unjustified... and that's really, really wrong. But it's pretty fucking rare. So much so as to be negligible. You'd think it was a much more present phenomenon the way people talk.

[jacquesvol]

@crimsonqueen
"pretty fucking rare... negligible"? Just look at the stats of unarmed people shot by cops.

[crimsonqueen]

@jacquesvol it's higher than it should be. But unarmed =/= not a threat. In some situations you have to defer to a cops judgment. But there's not necessarily a racial correlation there regardless. In fact, a large percentage of the police are Black, themselves.

[BigPunny]

Any unarmed person shot by police should result in the immediate firing of the officer followed by criminal charges being filed while seeking the highest applicable punishment.

There's almost never an excuse for an officer gunning down an unarmed man.

All police have to say is "I saw him reaching for [insert location or item here]" and they walk away without punishment, and that's why we're seeing people start to lose their shit.

And in my opinion, being legally armed and not aiming at a cop is the same as being unarmed, so the above scenario should also pertain when the person killed was licensed, or legally allowed, to carry a firearm.

[crimsonqueen]

Agree to disagree. You don't wait to get shot. That's senseless. If a suspect is behaving in a threatening manner and refuses to comply with police orders, sometimes the situation escalates.

We are legally obligated to be obedient with officers. Can they abuse that power? Absolutely. But that doesn't give people the right to break the law, and sometimes they suffer the consequences on that, sadly.

[BigPunny]

@crimsonqueen - yes, we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's okay for an officer to fire unless the person he's looking at is literally pointing a gun at him. They have tasers, they are supposedly trained in defensive maneuvers, and they wear vests.

They are more afraid of everyone walking around than they should be and that fear brings them to make horrible decisions that have lifelong consequences. The policy of kill first, question later must end. We're better than that and they are supposed to be protecting everyone - not just the continuation of their authority.

[front2back]

There's this thing called voting. It's a way to change things without any violence.

Problem is nobody actually wants to vote anymore. Big government statists alwasy try to incite violence, which breeds more violence and keeps the population under control. Vote the big guys out of office and then there's no more power for them.

[jacquesvol]

Can voting change abuse against a minority?
I'd like to know how.

[jacquesvol]

Voting can only change abuse against a minority if there's a majority wanting to stop that abuse.

[BigPunny]

Voting clearly doesn't work given that those in power are the very people that run the elections and very easily steal the election, rig it with people all preaching the same thing, and funneling nomination power in the hands of the most wealthy among us.

When I was your age, I believed my vote counted, but give it ten years, multiple votes, and you'll too start to see that your vote doesn't mean anything because they have mostly pre-determined its outcome.

They stack the deck on both sides, also, which means no matter which side wins... they still win.

[jacquesvol]

www.funnyandhumorous.com/.../funny-thought-124.png

[ladsin]

Research is showing that non-violent protest is becoming more and more effective at enacting change, and some psychologists are stating that it appears that war is almost completely phased out of our society.

[BigPunny]

As we continue to bomb multiple countries and as non-nuclear nations seek nuclear weapons.

Oh but hey. . . those psychologists say war is phased out.

mmk.

[ladsin]

You should look at the research

[BigPunny]

How about you link it? To peer-reviewed studies - not conjecture or blog sites, but peer-reviewed studies. I read them all the time, so please, link to one.

[ladsin]

Rethinking Violence: States and Non-State Actors in Conflict (2010)
Why Civil Resistance Works: The Strategic Logic of Nonviolent Conflict (2011)
Are good starts (Erica Chenoweth)

A particular favorite of mine (although on a slightly different angle) is Steven Pinker's The Better Angels of Our Nature

[ladsin]

Any thoughts after looking at it?

[lime_rampljuset]

Agree, most changes in the history of human life have come after a violent conflict.

[bryon]

It is coming and it's getting here very fast

[Anonymous]

Not all blacks hate police

[jacquesvol]

At least one of the officers shot in Dallas was black.
R. I. P.

[BigPunny]

@jacquesvol That's ironic. Sad, but ironic.

But even still... black police murder people too, so I guess it's bound to happen.