So basically you say you are not an Equalitarian simply because it has incompatibility issues? That's part of being one and I am sure, that true Equalitarians find ways to make it work because after all it's about equality with good intentions.
so, you saying "all equalitarians think such and such" is not different to, and just as condescending as snatchfindergeneral lumping you in with all the feminists that have scattered minds (key word "the" feminist, rather than "a" feminist).
@the_rake I am for reason. I am for women having fair and reasonable rights. I am against feminism. As an example, women having rights to opt for free abortion is not a right equal to that of men, because men do not have that right, and since feminism is supposed to be about women having equal rights to men, but at the same time demand unequal rights such as this, feminism is fraudulent at best and subversive at worst.
I don't even know where to begin taking this girl's apologia apart. I actually feel kind of bad for trying, it's like kicking a puppy in the face or something. Let's all be nice to her.
Would it make you feel better if I was rude to you? Perhaps you will change your mind once enough time has elapsed and you realize we're benign and mean no intentional harm
I did. I am truly sorry. I take it back. I ask for nothing except your acceptance of my apology. I hope that maybe I can change your view instead of attacking you for it.
There are a lot of amazing things about Brazil from what I know, though I've never been. I'd like to visit. I'd maybe even live there! but what 'feminism' means is different in different countries.
In north America for instance, we have a situation where most university students are female, where the male drop out rate is far higher, yet we still wonder entirely how to get more women into the few programs that more men are still in. We focus mainly on women's mental health even though men commit suicide 3 to 5 times as often. We proclaim equality, but still hand mothers the children in most divorces. Men are treated less well by the court system than women. Every company loves to support breast cancer, but prostate cancer is ignored. Most of the homeless here are male. Male rape victims receive very little help. When aid agencies want to worry about male victims of sexual violence in war zones, they are told that rape is defined as sexual violence by men on women...
... When a shelter for abused men opened, there were complaints that the money should have been spent on women, even though literally every other shelter was for women. Data suggests women here initiate spousal violence as much as men, but that sort of information is suppressed.
Do women here still have problems? Yes absolutely. But it's at a point in -my- culture where it's not clear that women have more or larger problems than men do. Feminism here does not mean equality, it means a belief that women are disadvantaged relative to men and that this must be changed.
Are some of their concerns valid? Absolutely.
But many are pushing back, because they see both sexes having more or less equal problems, and realistically some feminist goals are not simply helping women, they are specifically helping women at the expense of men. They believe this is justified because they believe men are privileged, those who do not share that view will disagree.
Are we talking about women's problems? I thought the whole discussion was why people argue about being egalitarians vs. feminists. My point isn't 'please look at these male issues!'. My point was that in north America and Europe, many feminists are happy to push agendas that help women at the expense of men, because they believe men are privileged. Many men and women do NOT believe this to be true, hence they don't support feminists, and make that clear by saying they are egalitarians.
It is -very- true that men's issues are usually brought up when women's issues are, and it is popular for feminists to say 'oh what about the menz' or simply to say 'can't we talk about women's issues and not men's issues now'. But realistically, there is NO other time men's issues are EVER raised. Male rape is NEVER mentioned outside of the context of female rape for instance.
Now feminists don't really care, they think men's issues aren't brought up outside of women's issues because men...
... are so privileged and that all men's issues are a smokescreen to avoid dealing with women's issues.
Again, those who say they are egalitarians don't agree with that view. So when issues of gender come up, they want to bring up both.
Honestly if I was in say Afghanistan, i'd just say I was a feminist. Because women there really are disadvantaged to the point that focusing primarily on women's issues (along with a few others) makes sense. By north American standards I am not a feminist.
My sense is brazil is closer to north America, but i'm not sure if it's quite where we are, so i'm not sure, maybe i'd say I was a feminist there too! But you need to realize the language and argument and lines are a little different for most members here than where you are.
There are also a couple girls from india here who talk about feminism, and it's like... yes obviously i'd be a feminist there.
a girl was raped by 33 guys and the policie said it wasn't rape, Brazil needs to change maybe USA don't have many problems but the view of Americans are still the same, they treat women like they are inferior and Europe isn't really good for women too
There are simultaneous views in north American/western European culture saying that women are inferior and men are inferior. Different groups in the culture absorb one message more or less, and different temperaments absorb different.
I'm aware of that case in Brazil. There is a case in Florida of a 15 year old (I think) who had sex with like 20+ guys in a bathroom in a high school, and there's again 'was it rape'? It certainly started consensual.
Honestly I think most people have no idea how to process what started as consensual gangbang did it drift to non consensual like... I have no frame of reference for that. I try to figure it out, but I think many people just go 'its always rape' or 'its consent'.
There are many things that are not good for women, but there are also things not good for men.
We had an investigation here (Canada) into murdered aboriginal women.
You know who is murdered like three times as often? Aboriginal men.
the girl was passed out it was rape, and saying men die more than women doesn't solve anything. men say they are rapped too and it is true but If you see in what situation it happens it is usually in prisons while women have to be afraid to walk on the streets because we can be raped everywhere
See one thing that annoys 'egalitarians' ... victim blaming is fine for male victims. Oh, he was probably in a gang, he was in jail for selling weed, etc. So he doesn't matter. That rape victim you bring up, she was dating a drug dealer, so she deserved rape? Of course not. But if her brother who had no job was hanging around with the same guys, is that fine? well no. But if he gets beaten and shot by a rival group, that doesn't matter?
Where -I- live I've seen very little evidence that there's any willingness to allocate any resources to male victims, given resources are limited. And there are active feminist academics with significant influence on governments here who essentially push sexual violence as an expression of patriarchy. They almost deny that sexual violence can exist in, for example, lesbian relationships, and any other type of violence is 'copying patriarchy'. Basically they have strong views about gender rights, and are using rape (a horrifying crime) as the trump card whenever they don't get their way, rather then actually trying to reduce all rape and violence.
The truth is that, in my country, no group is physically safer than adult women. children and adult men suffer far more violence.
Do you think that people should be able to do whatever they want AND not be judged by others? That seems to be the trend in feminism that is not asking for equality but privilege of acting without accountability for their actions.
it doesn't have anything to do with feminism I don't even know why you are bringing it up. it would be equality if men could wear makeup and not be judged like girls
you'll never be free from judgement as judging people is a human right, deciding what is right and wrong for ourselves, and I turn formulating opinions of others, even when those oppinions are negative. However you don't really care if men are accepted while wearing makeup as that is not a women's issue and your whole take was about why you're a feminist and not an equalitarian.
I hate when people only see me as a feminist I am a person not a movement, but you don't get what feminism is right? I care about men but they don't care about girls
Have you considered that if you await acceptance from others you'll never see progress? You are free to do whatever you want, but not free from judgement for your actions, however if you let judgement or fear of judgement stop you, then perhaps it's courage you should be building rather than asking for acceptance from society.
Who are you referring to as they? Have you considered that you may have been brainwashed by the concept of feminism? It is a form of control. You're told what to believe, when to protest, what to protest, how to dress, who to blame, how to argue, it's all control but what has feminism ACTUALLY done for you? Look at what you do for the feminist leadership by perpetuating their ideology but what has any rich feminist author or dictator of rhetoric done for you?
Because it makes women unhappy and people might actually care about you. I'd like you to be happy with who you are, your own identity, not who they tell you to be. I've tried being nice to you and I won't stop that but feminism has some very ugly aspects that will make you unhappy. So do some if the men's rights groups.
I am not unhappy my friends like that I am a feminist and who made me know the movement was my teacher I am really happy with myself and I don't want people being nice to me
@KingRoach your religion holds no value in a free world. To assume rights come from your God and that people recognize this is to assume that others believe what you've been told. Just like feminists, people of religion are told how to be have, what to think, etc. and just as you are told to judge others for not believing in your religion while being told only God can judge, we all may judge others however we have no right to punish or sentence others.
I know that you're not happy, feminism is driven by anger and you subscribe to it, anger about all these inequalities you speak of yet can't prove. In the free world, women are equal, often superior from the judicial standpoint but you want more than that, you want people to accept what rational people view as irrational behavior, like men wearing makeup. I personally don't think anyone should wear face paint other than for artistic expression but that's not oppressing you, that's just disagreeing and sometimes judging which I have the right to do, especially as your equal.
But when you judge others, you are punishing them to an extent. No one wants to be judged; to be looked down on; to be ridiculed. These are things that happen when you judge, whether you like it or not. So you can't have it both ways and claim you have the right to judge but not to punish bc they are one in the same.
If your going to say something stupid like scoffing at someone isn't punishment then the question is where is the line? It's ok to scoff but not to ridicule? It's ok to ridicule but not demean? its ok to demean but not to assault? It's ok to assault but not to injure? It's ok to injure but not to cause serious injury? It's ok to cause serious injury but not to kill? It's ok to kill but only if they deserve it? It's ok because I judged and decided they deserve it.
@KingRoach it's called using proper judgement, discretion, etc. you should have the ability to judge something as unfit without attacking it. There are behaviors that I don't agree with, but I'm not necissarily going to ridicule or even let them know I don't approve of it as its their freedom to choose. I step in when it negatively impacts me or my loved ones but that's about it. Should you not have the right to vote since you're judging the options and choosing what you think is better? Without judgement we'd be unable to make decisions. Judging others can and generally should be a silent act, it's merely deciding that such behavior is unfit or irresponsible. We judge drunk drivers, drug addicts, mirderers etc but we as individuals don't take it upon ourselves to correct their behavior, that's what the legal system, religious heaven vs hell, denial of certification such as a license is. We do it on many levels as a society, citizens and individuals.
Maybe you're better than some others but the vast majority of people that judge do so with ridicule and contempt. More likely you're using different phrasing as I assume Wmglish isn't your first language. What you've been describing is using your judgement as opposed to judging others.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
52Opinion
So basically you say you are not an Equalitarian simply because it has incompatibility issues? That's part of being one and I am sure, that true Equalitarians find ways to make it work because after all it's about equality with good intentions.
ok. Your poor English notwithstanding, I think you misunderstand eqalitarianism.
I think she meant equestrianism.
This take is ridden with generalisations, hypocrisy and strawman fallacies. Great job.
sente o foda-se
You make very little sense. You truly exemplify the scattered mind of the feminist.
hahaha you know I am a person not a movement stop judging me because of that
Way to remind a woman that she's just a woman.
@SnatchFinderGeneral
In response to mistixs
"My solo upvote."
"I don't think you know what objective means brah. She's objectively absolutely correct. You are the one having problems with objectivity."
So what are you? For or against feminism?
@mytaker
"I am a person not a movement"
And yet you represent the views of equalitarianism along with a bunch of conservative and fallacious arguments.
@the_rake that is my view on it
so, you saying "all equalitarians think such and such" is not different to, and just as condescending as snatchfindergeneral lumping you in with all the feminists that have scattered minds (key word "the" feminist, rather than "a" feminist).
@the_rake I am for reason. I am for women having fair and reasonable rights. I am against feminism. As an example, women having rights to opt for free abortion is not a right equal to that of men, because men do not have that right, and since feminism is supposed to be about women having equal rights to men, but at the same time demand unequal rights such as this, feminism is fraudulent at best and subversive at worst.
" I am for women having fair and reasonable rights."
As am I.
men can have aborts they do it all the time when they leave their kids
Because you're 16, I think that you actually believe what you just said.
I don't even know where to begin taking this girl's apologia apart. I actually feel kind of bad for trying, it's like kicking a puppy in the face or something. Let's all be nice to her.
@the_rake hahaha... precisely.
@mytaker
Sorry, I don't believe in it.
@the_rake I don't believe in it too
Hey young woman. We are not your enemy :)
that is what people say in movies before they kidnap and rape someone
Would it make you feel better if I was rude to you? Perhaps you will change your mind once enough time has elapsed and you realize we're benign and mean no intentional harm
you don't think you were already rude?
Yeah, You're right. Sorry for being rude. I hope you don't take it personally. It is your argument I mean to attack, not you.
but you attacked me not my argument
I did. I am truly sorry. I take it back. I ask for nothing except your acceptance of my apology. I hope that maybe I can change your view instead of attacking you for it.
don't worry I love people being rude to me it is my guilty pleasure
lol! You are something, aren't you haha
no I am not
lol nice try, trouble haha
I thought you were going to be rude to me
What do you mean?
Do you actually want me to be rude to you or did you think I was being rude?
be rude and you were being rude before
I'm sorry. I cannot acquiesce your request, lest somebody report my comments and get me banned. :)
for being rude?
Yeah... I am on a final warning... hehehe
hahah that is a shame I love rude people
Unfortunately, the sting has been taken out of my tail
Who the fuck dusts the underside of a cabinet anyway?
that's true no one does it lol
Women's position in Brazil is quite different from women's position in the U. S., U. K. or western Europe.
I know
but it isn't too different it is just that you guys want to say your country is better
There are a lot of amazing things about Brazil from what I know, though I've never been. I'd like to visit. I'd maybe even live there! but what 'feminism' means is different in different countries.
In north America for instance, we have a situation where most university students are female, where the male drop out rate is far higher, yet we still wonder entirely how to get more women into the few programs that more men are still in. We focus mainly on women's mental health even though men commit suicide 3 to 5 times as often. We proclaim equality, but still hand mothers the children in most divorces. Men are treated less well by the court system than women. Every company loves to support breast cancer, but prostate cancer is ignored. Most of the homeless here are male. Male rape victims receive very little help. When aid agencies want to worry about male victims of sexual violence in war zones, they are told that rape is defined as sexual violence by men on women...
... When a shelter for abused men opened, there were complaints that the money should have been spent on women, even though literally every other shelter was for women. Data suggests women here initiate spousal violence as much as men, but that sort of information is suppressed.
Do women here still have problems? Yes absolutely. But it's at a point in -my- culture where it's not clear that women have more or larger problems than men do. Feminism here does not mean equality, it means a belief that women are disadvantaged relative to men and that this must be changed.
Are some of their concerns valid? Absolutely.
But many are pushing back, because they see both sexes having more or less equal problems, and realistically some feminist goals are not simply helping women, they are specifically helping women at the expense of men. They believe this is justified because they believe men are privileged, those who do not share that view will disagree.
this is the problem men can't talk about women' problems without talking about theirs too, If men supported us more we would support them too
Are we talking about women's problems? I thought the whole discussion was why people argue about being egalitarians vs. feminists. My point isn't 'please look at these male issues!'. My point was that in north America and Europe, many feminists are happy to push agendas that help women at the expense of men, because they believe men are privileged. Many men and women do NOT believe this to be true, hence they don't support feminists, and make that clear by saying they are egalitarians.
It is -very- true that men's issues are usually brought up when women's issues are, and it is popular for feminists to say 'oh what about the menz' or simply to say 'can't we talk about women's issues and not men's issues now'. But realistically, there is NO other time men's issues are EVER raised. Male rape is NEVER mentioned outside of the context of female rape for instance.
Now feminists don't really care, they think men's issues aren't brought up outside of women's issues because men...
... are so privileged and that all men's issues are a smokescreen to avoid dealing with women's issues.
Again, those who say they are egalitarians don't agree with that view. So when issues of gender come up, they want to bring up both.
Honestly if I was in say Afghanistan, i'd just say I was a feminist. Because women there really are disadvantaged to the point that focusing primarily on women's issues (along with a few others) makes sense. By north American standards I am not a feminist.
My sense is brazil is closer to north America, but i'm not sure if it's quite where we are, so i'm not sure, maybe i'd say I was a feminist there too! But you need to realize the language and argument and lines are a little different for most members here than where you are.
There are also a couple girls from india here who talk about feminism, and it's like... yes obviously i'd be a feminist there.
a girl was raped by 33 guys and the policie said it wasn't rape, Brazil needs to change
maybe USA don't have many problems but the view of Americans are still the same, they treat women like they are inferior
and Europe isn't really good for women too
There are simultaneous views in north American/western European culture saying that women are inferior and men are inferior. Different groups in the culture absorb one message more or less, and different temperaments absorb different.
I'm aware of that case in Brazil. There is a case in Florida of a 15 year old (I think) who had sex with like 20+ guys in a bathroom in a high school, and there's again 'was it rape'? It certainly started consensual.
Honestly I think most people have no idea how to process what started as consensual gangbang did it drift to non consensual like... I have no frame of reference for that. I try to figure it out, but I think many people just go 'its always rape' or 'its consent'.
There are many things that are not good for women, but there are also things not good for men.
We had an investigation here (Canada) into murdered aboriginal women.
You know who is murdered like three times as often? Aboriginal men.
the girl was passed out it was rape, and saying men die more than women doesn't solve anything. men say they are rapped too and it is true but If you see in what situation it happens it is usually in prisons while women have to be afraid to walk on the streets because we can be raped everywhere
I agree it was rape.
So men in prison deserve to be raped?
See one thing that annoys 'egalitarians' ... victim blaming is fine for male victims. Oh, he was probably in a gang, he was in jail for selling weed, etc. So he doesn't matter. That rape victim you bring up, she was dating a drug dealer, so she deserved rape? Of course not. But if her brother who had no job was hanging around with the same guys, is that fine? well no. But if he gets beaten and shot by a rival group, that doesn't matter?
no but men want to say they can be raped as easy as girls but it is not true
At a party, it's not true that there is equal risk. War zones? Some men it's higher.
The overall rate is far higher than you might realize though. See www.slate.com/.../...n_are_sexually_assaulted.html for instance.
but still 62% were with women and people don't understand that feminism don't want to end rape for women we want to end all rape
Where -I- live I've seen very little evidence that there's any willingness to allocate any resources to male victims, given resources are limited. And there are active feminist academics with significant influence on governments here who essentially push sexual violence as an expression of patriarchy. They almost deny that sexual violence can exist in, for example, lesbian relationships, and any other type of violence is 'copying patriarchy'. Basically they have strong views about gender rights, and are using rape (a horrifying crime) as the trump card whenever they don't get their way, rather then actually trying to reduce all rape and violence.
The truth is that, in my country, no group is physically safer than adult women. children and adult men suffer far more violence.
I don't know.
Feminism has pretty much eradicated me from the dating world.
None of these movements support me.
Not even equalitarianism.
I'll support any movement that will help me get laid which so far is none of them.
Anyone else tired of these words feminism and egalitarian?
I think i am just going to enjoy my life and date guys and have a blast.
The only thing you made me think of is that some women truly are utter scum.
Do you really expect me to take your article seriously when you can't even spell Egalitarianism correctly?
I don't like labelling things
It's a good take though
sometimes you have too
Nope I don't think so
Cause then it makes it worse
maybe
For sure
You don't seem to understand how ass-backwards the feminist movement is. Wouldn't you feel better playing with Barbies?
'Egalitarians', AKA The Armchair activists. 😂
Good take. :)
Make sense
Makes*
no it doesn't, it really doesn't
@the_rake for him it does
perhaps his thinking is about as fallacious as your's.
@the_rake good to know lol
he likes gogeta so I guess I'll let the guy off
@the_rake ayyy you watch dragon ball z
well, I used to
what do you think equality is among men and women?
being able to do the same things, act the same
Be able or allowed? That's different
both
You can't make anyone able to do anything.
But you can make it legal for them to try
men are allowed to wear makeup but not able to do so because of what people say
Wrong, men are both allowed to and able. You can't change what people say, they have the right to feel however they want about your actions.
society doesn't accept men wearing makeup it is a fact
Do you think that people should be able to do whatever they want AND not be judged by others? That seems to be the trend in feminism that is not asking for equality but privilege of acting without accountability for their actions.
That doesn't mean they're not able or allowed to.
it doesn't have anything to do with feminism I don't even know why you are bringing it up. it would be equality if men could wear makeup and not be judged like girls
you'll never be free from judgement as judging people is a human right, deciding what is right and wrong for ourselves, and I turn formulating opinions of others, even when those oppinions are negative. However you don't really care if men are accepted while wearing makeup as that is not a women's issue and your whole take was about why you're a feminist and not an equalitarian.
I hate when people only see me as a feminist I am a person not a movement, but you don't get what feminism is right? I care about men but they don't care about girls
Have you considered that if you await acceptance from others you'll never see progress?
You are free to do whatever you want, but not free from judgement for your actions, however if you let judgement or fear of judgement stop you, then perhaps it's courage you should be building rather than asking for acceptance from society.
I know
Who are you referring to as they?
Have you considered that you may have been brainwashed by the concept of feminism? It is a form of control. You're told what to believe, when to protest, what to protest, how to dress, who to blame, how to argue, it's all control but what has feminism ACTUALLY done for you? Look at what you do for the feminist leadership by perpetuating their ideology but what has any rich feminist author or dictator of rhetoric done for you?
you know what I most hate about people? I have never ever in my life tried to make someone a feminist but everyone wants to make me against feminism
Because it makes women unhappy and people might actually care about you. I'd like you to be happy with who you are, your own identity, not who they tell you to be. I've tried being nice to you and I won't stop that but feminism has some very ugly aspects that will make you unhappy. So do some if the men's rights groups.
I am not unhappy my friends like that I am a feminist and who made me know the movement was my teacher I am really happy with myself and I don't want people being nice to me
I don't know how you determine a human right but judging people is certainly not a God given right. www.biblestudytools.com/.../
@KingRoach your religion holds no value in a free world. To assume rights come from your God and that people recognize this is to assume that others believe what you've been told. Just like feminists, people of religion are told how to be have, what to think, etc. and just as you are told to judge others for not believing in your religion while being told only God can judge, we all may judge others however we have no right to punish or sentence others.
I think the way I want to think
I know that you're not happy, feminism is driven by anger and you subscribe to it, anger about all these inequalities you speak of yet can't prove. In the free world, women are equal, often superior from the judicial standpoint but you want more than that, you want people to accept what rational people view as irrational behavior, like men wearing makeup. I personally don't think anyone should wear face paint other than for artistic expression but that's not oppressing you, that's just disagreeing and sometimes judging which I have the right to do, especially as your equal.
I am super happy dude
I know that's not true, but I wish it were
But when you judge others, you are punishing them to an extent. No one wants to be judged; to be looked down on; to be ridiculed. These are things that happen when you judge, whether you like it or not. So you can't have it both ways and claim you have the right to judge but not to punish bc they are one in the same.
If your going to say something stupid like scoffing at someone isn't punishment then the question is where is the line? It's ok to scoff but not to ridicule? It's ok to ridicule but not demean? its ok to demean but not to assault? It's ok to assault but not to injure? It's ok to injure but not to cause serious injury? It's ok to cause serious injury but not to kill? It's ok to kill but only if they deserve it? It's ok because I judged and decided they deserve it.
@KingRoach it's called using proper judgement, discretion, etc. you should have the ability to judge something as unfit without attacking it. There are behaviors that I don't agree with, but I'm not necissarily going to ridicule or even let them know I don't approve of it as its their freedom to choose. I step in when it negatively impacts me or my loved ones but that's about it. Should you not have the right to vote since you're judging the options and choosing what you think is better? Without judgement we'd be unable to make decisions. Judging others can and generally should be a silent act, it's merely deciding that such behavior is unfit or irresponsible. We judge drunk drivers, drug addicts, mirderers etc but we as individuals don't take it upon ourselves to correct their behavior, that's what the legal system, religious heaven vs hell, denial of certification such as a license is. We do it on many levels as a society, citizens and individuals.
Maybe you're better than some others but the vast majority of people that judge do so with ridicule and contempt. More likely you're using different phrasing as I assume Wmglish isn't your first language. What you've been describing is using your judgement as opposed to judging others.
My middle name is ham
im really getting tired of this gender shit.
I want to impregnate.
A
cool
I will come to live in Brazil in November actually. I studied Portuguese in college.
that is cool
Argentina is white by the way.
what?
Egalitarian*