Blah blah blah, whitey so evil and so mean, always trying to enslave black people and kill muslims... Then, there is the reality. More white people killed by black people and cops than the opposite. A racist speech openly accepted and shown by black people. Attacks every months by muslims in western countries. Affirmative actions only in favor of blacks and arabs. Discriminations against whites in big companies, without any consequences. "Diversity" only asked to white people, blacks can do à 95% black cast film and no one bitch about diversity.
You're right, there are privileges. But obviously, not in favor of white people. If black people in western countries hate whites so much, they can move to Africa, where there is much, much less white people. Oh of course, life is much harder there. Just shaming white people and asking for free stuff and privileges here is much easier, right? "Nooh, you're so mean and racist, give me money, and let me insult you and take your place because i'm black, i'm oppressed, i'm a victim".
Shut the hell up. Stop blaming evil whites for the problems of the black community. You're killing each others, you have a "street culture" where success and education is shamed, as well as living with white people. And still, you manage to blame us for not succeeding? Why would anyone give you a free pass for anything just because you're born with more melanin? Does that make you superior? I'm tired of that crap. I'm no more privileged than anyone else, I'm not rich, and I've struggled quite a lot, but I'm still not blaming other people for it. The little I have, I've worked for it. Start doing the same.
I proved nothing, because all you posted was a whine. Nothing else behind it. You're whining, again and again, everyday I see the same crap. Different person, same bullshit. I'm not asking you to answer, because I know that all you can do is cry about being a "victim". Blacks struggling? Must be white people work! No way it's black people fault! And that's all there is. You see an issue, and it's white people's fault. How to fix it? By asking white people to give stuff of course! Your take can be summed up in one line. And it's not even needed to sum it up, since it's the same whiny speech we can read almost every day here. Repeating the same crap everyday doesn't make it true. It makes it boring, redundant, but certainly not true. And what's your answer? "Nuh, I don't answer, you're insane". Quite an argumentation, for sure.
Of course you proved it. People don't understand racism. Racists never think they are racists. They simply think their racism is the conclusion of logic and facts. Here you are talking about "Black" people when I talk throughout the take about the experience of other non-"White" people.
All you are doing is posting jibberjabber.
But I just want to make one point painfully clear.
You draw racist conclusions, based upon racist fantasies, and you can be a judge, a police officer, a senator, etc. You can affect public policy, people's lives, etc. All with the insane nutty racist rants in your brain running full steam.
And you don't admit that, whether or not there is any truth to your nutty racist rants. . . you are "White" and that nutty racism is apart of the discussion.
In fact you're reminding me of arabs people living in sensitive urban areas here. They claim we're "abandoning them" because we're "racists, and we don't care about arabs", because their place is all vandalized and dirty. So the government pays for the renovations, the buildings owners too, everything is fixed. And 2 weeks later, they already ravaged it all. Broken, burned, tagged, pissed on, spitted on. And here they go again, crying, whining about how the "racist" government is abandoning them. They also attack paramedics, cops, even doctors and store owners, then complain that none of them is coming back when they need it.
Everything you say could be turned against you, because it's so empty that in fact you could use it against a goat if you wanted.
"You're racist because you dare not agreeing with me"
Well no, I don't agree with you, because all you're saying is a big pile of crap. I won't say I'm a racist because you're so paranoid that any white not agreeing with you is an evil racist oppressor. Rant as much as you like. Facts are facts. Just because you claim that the problem is white people doesn't make it true. You're just looking for a fake culprit because admitting the problem lies within the black community would hurt your feeling. In the end, you're not fixing any problem, you're creating a bigger one. Instead of saying "We need to fix things", all you say is "THEY need to fix it for us by giving us more stuff". Well keep crying. It works for now, but there is always a limit to how much people can accept to be insulted. And if you reach that limit, you won't like the result.
If you're too stupid to read about other countries and understand stuff even when you're not concerned by it, well too bad. But I can. Well, what could I expect from you anyway? A take full of crap, no argumentation except "you're racist" without anything behind. Of course you can't understand that someone is able to know more than what happens in his own place only.
Dude, you are just off. I don't even know if you really from France.
But you are really a troll. I can't speak to the situation in France. I am not French. I am American. I know American history, culture, social norms, etc. What the French do is on them. And one thing is for certain. You will never find me critiquing a decision by France or by French society. Because I don't live there and I am not a citizen. And if your argument is that you apart of the supreme "White" race, then go to stormfront.
All you know is what you want to believe because it fits your constant victimization. What can I say, you don't know anything about France, but I know stuff about other countries. Guess I'm more open than you think. That discussion is becoming boring. I told you that the problem lied within the black community, you're going on about some white supremacy bullshit on which is based your whole speech. You're talking about people being racists while all you do is calling names and never giving anything worthy of a read. You have nothing to say, your "arguments" are as empty as your take. We can stop here. There is nothing interesting coming from you anymore, if something interesting came from you at some point.
No, you don't know anything about America. Stick to France. You posted some drivel about how good you treat Arabs over there. If you don't like Arabs, kick them all out of your nation. I don't give a care. It isn't for me to figure out what French people should or should not do. I just know when I fly over there next month, I am going to have a ball.
Going to Cafe Latin!
Other than that, we have nothing to talk about. You are ignorant of the American Experience and I have too many people here that I must respond to. I cannot educate you, I don't have the time.
Actually number 3 is wrong as for many years lately the Most attractive women in the world has been an Asian. Nana from after school was voted for like 2 years in a row and is still like number 3 or something like that. And other Asian women made it very high on the list as well a long with many black and Hispanic women. And not to mention V from BTS made most attractive man this year. And if we're being fair on those list most of the world has white people sadly. We're fucking everywhere and make up a ton if the world versus the smaller amount of other races minus Asians as they rake high on percentage as well. I'm not saying white privilege isn't real because it is. But some of what you said just isn't true
And when was that? If you look at the MIss Universe pageant, which I think you are referring to, it has maybe six Asian women winners. And that's if you include the Phillippines which hold three titles. I know many Asians who do not consider Filipinos to be Asian. In the U. S. they are sometimes referred to as "pacific islanders".
As for the rest of your post, I don't think we are in disagreement anyway.
No I'm referring to some list that happens every year that has the 100 top most beautiful women and attractive men in the world. I don't know who makes it though u can find it online or YouTube. I don't watch the miss universe thing or whatnot. They're definitely racist and have suck criteria
And if we're taking into consideration that people's magazine probably does stars in America and not worldwide like the list I mentioned. And most famous people in the US are white people
I don't think there's white privilege but I do think that beautiful/ above average looking people get more special treatment. It's because the media tells us that to be beautiful is to look european and that it's the only form of beauty. I'm not trying to be racist here but because they're seen as beautiful, they get treated better.
@RolandCuthbert What's the point of that picture? Are you insinuating that that woman is trying to look like a white person simply because she lightens her skin?
Did it ever occur to you that lighter skin is desirable in many cultures regardless of white people? Did it ever occur to you that these cultures desired lighter skin because lighter skin meant they were wealthier and didn't have to spend time working in the sun?
I guess black people are privileged given white people in western countries are always trying to get crazy dark tans? Yeah?
@Kkaos Did it ever occur to YOU that lighter skin being more desirable leads to whiteness being more desirable?
Some white people want to get tanned. Big deal. That doesn't negate white privilege, and if you think it does, you have a limited understanding of the topic.
@Kkaos Yes, I am insinuating that. Here at GaG, you have many non-"White" men who have come out with a stated preference for "White" women. That doesn't establish that "Whiteness" is valued in other cultures. And isn't perfectly logical for that to have an affect upon the men, women and children who are members of that culture?
I don't even understand how what you are arguing is even logical. Lighter skinned is valued. . . but not "Whiteness". The whole idea is absurd.
@NoBullsh1t White people have a different skin tone to people of other races with lighter skin, typically. White people usually have more peach/red undertones.
"Some white people want to get tanned. Big deal." Big deal? So you use dark people wanting to look lighter as a justification for 'white privilege' yet, when white people do the exact opposite and want to look darker you say - 'big deal'..
Are you always this stupid or are you just having a bad day?
Again Roland, if you knew how to read English, you'd see that I wasn't even talking to you. So whether you can 'take it' or not is completely irrelevant.
And my point still stands. And that link you provided just dicusses what I've already said. It's traditional, it has nothing to do with white people.
You think you know all about Asians too now? LOL. You must know all about me, I'm half white and Asian myself. Ignorance is bliss isn't it?
@NoBullsh1t Okay, is it only our fault that your own people denigrate themselves and carry a self-defeatist attitude? We're not going around saying we're the most beautiful, nobody has to accept that as truth. Your own people are feeding these things to your people. Parents in other nations around the world show off their 'light' babies. Is it my fault that they do this? That they think it is the truth? The media does not need to be listened to. But when parents start telling their kids to wear sunscreen so they don't get "dark," that is a problem.
@Kkaos There are some white people (mostly young) who want to get tanned, so yeah, that's not a big deal. In fact, there are plenty of white people who like the very pale skin they have. You, being 22, are probably not around them as often, as people in your age group think that tanned is "hot" or whatever. Which has nothing at all to do with white privilege, as I stated before. I'm not "justifying" white privilege; it doesn't need justification. I was simply stating that lighter skin is almost universally desired in every culture. People of color are often encouraged or pressured to look white, "talk" white, "dress" white, "act" white...
And attacking me personally doesn't make your argument better either.
@DianaWest I'm not sure what you mean by "your own people" - it sounds as if you're confused. I have blonde hair and blue eyes - I'm about as white as they come.
@NoBullsh1t There are some black people, mostly young, who take skin lightening creams in order to look lighter. It's no big deal. - You know your point is baseless when I can use the exact same thing against you.
"People of color are often encouraged or pressured to look white, "talk" white, "dress" white, "act" white..."
1. "People of color' is an outdated, racist and factually incorrect term. Your use of it suggests your thinking is very backwards.
2. Provide some examples of this 'pressure' that exists. And how the fuck can you 'talk' white anyway. I didn't realize someone's skin color is correlated to how they talk. You literally make no sense whatsoever.
@Kkaos You fail to grasp the fundamentals of logic. If you could use the point against me, it MIGHT prove the point baseless - it depends on context - but you haven't used the point against me. The way you've used it just doesn't apply.
There's nothing racist about the phrase "people of color". It may be a dated term, which is entirely irrelevant.
Nothing you have said is remotely interesting to me, nor is it furthering the conversation. It's a waste of my time to continue with someone who does not argue in good faith.
@NoBullsh1t "You fail to grasp the fundamentals of logic" No, I don't. That's you. You've made a generic assumption about white people who tan and you've provided NO evidence for that assumption. I could just as easily make a generic assumption about black people who lighten their skin and provide no evidence. Rendering the whole thing baseless. There's some logic for you.
Your assertion that 'people of color' is not racist exposes your ignorance of history. The term 'people of color' was coined by racist white people in order to distinguish themselves from other other races, particularly 'mulattos'.
"Nothing you have said is remotely interesting to me" Cool? I'm not here to entertain you, I'm here to shut you down until you provide a valid argument, which you seem incapable of.
"It's a waste of my time to continue" Awesome, don't comment then.
@DianaWest White people wear sunscreen to not get skin cancer. They will tan in the sun instead of turning bright red and getting serious painful sunburn (blisters). It's part of the white-skinned white privilege, no natural sun protection.
@steevo I am not I am not sure what the other posters were discussing but. . ."White" people are not those who has supposed "White" skin. They are the people who identify primarily with being "White".
There was a lot of tangential discussion in this particular thread so I stayed out of it until now.
White privilege does not exist. The term is used by others as an excuse for why they do not succeed in life. We are all given the same opportunities both for education in the public school systems and in the workforce. We are all equal and fully capable of excelling in life, some just choose not to work hard and blame others. Using the term "white privilege" in itself is racist, the same as using derogatory terms when referring to others of a different race. I am white and have plenty of friends that are not. Some of my friends work hard and excel, while some do not and like to blame others for "holding them down". History has shown that colored folks can and do succeed as often as "white folks", if they put in the work.
I think two big parts of people's reluctance to accept the idea of "white privilege" are:
1) The reluctance to consider the possibility that they didn't "do it all themselves" or "pull themselves up by their boostraps" etc. People don't like to admit they have advantages - especially ones they can't do anything about and were just born with.
2) They confuse "white privilege" with "white guilt" - and think that there's some inherent guilt trip that comes along with white privilege.
It is nothing more than acknowledging that people who are born white have certain inherent advantages in society (ESPECIALLY western society) BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE.
Yeah, the guilt thing is annoying. Because we have to deal with all of the anti-PC guilt over what happened with racism, slavery, Jim Crow, the civil rights movement, etc. And they accuse "White" liberals of this, that the hilarious thing.
So you can't just point out obvious "White" privilege because you have to navigate their feelings over it.
The thing is, they believe in the principles of "White" privilege. That "White" history is more important, "White" social norms must be recognized, "White" beauty standards, etc.
But create an awards show to show case African-American social norms, African-American art, theater, etc. and you become racist.
But since then I've learned that the government has been the cause of nearly all inequality in this country. I cannot type the facts into this. I only recently removed myself from the left. So the overwhelming majority of information and links and articles that I have saved on my computer over the years are left stuff. I have papers I wrote for college, videos, all kinds of shit and it's all for the left.
Instead I'll link some videos. I know they are too long. Don't watch them, just as conservatives didn't listen to me when I was a liberal, I know liberals will not humor me now that I consider myself a libertarian. What's interesting is I still hold all of the same values I ever did. It's just now I see how the government has, for example, destroyed black people. Utterly fucking destroyed them. Where's my proof? Watch the video with Larry Elder.
Liberals think the media is destroying our country. That minorities are being disadvantaged by the things the media is showing us. Meanwhile the government has been destroying black and minority lives for decades and we just ignore it because we want to believe that conservatives are racist.
Don't even bother replying to me. I know you won't watch the videos. I'm just linking them in case somehow, some way, a liberal like me, who is seeking the truth, will watch and will understand.
I don't understand what this has to do with my take. I know Larry Elder. I know his views. I don't understand how that disproves "White" privilege. Even Larry Elder would agree that "Whites" have superior behaviors and beliefs and that's why "White" have higher levels of success.
Those beliefs are present whenever he renders a critique of "Black" people. If he were a judge, he would look at a "Black" offender in a more negative light. If he was a police officer, he would profile "Black" people more because of his beliefs about "Blacks" and crime.
And I want you to understand something. When I post, I try to make my own point. I may attach a video only as supporting evidence. But when I post about "White" privilege, I am not adopting someone else's view. I don't tell you to go read something by someone else.
No. Read my words. And debate that points I make, using facts and reason.
I don't really understand the dynamics in the USA, so I can't comment on that. If you're insinuating that Asians have eyelid surgery to look European, you're just perpetuating the myth that only 'white people' can have double eyelids. It's simply not true. It exists in all races, yes, even among Asians.. and even some Koreans naturally have it.
Well, this is what I have understood. I probably should not speak for all Asians. But this is what I learned about Korea from a man who is married to a Korean woman. I wonder if there is an Asian-American here at GaG who can talk more about what being Asian in America is like?
Tbh, the history of plastic surgery in Korea and the cultural pressure there nowadays to be presentable/beautiful is very unique, but doesn't represent all of East Asia. I'd like to know where this Korean plastic surgeon got that percentage from "While present in nearly all Caucasians, this extra fold occurs naturally in only 15% of East Asians." Is it his estimate or was there a study? Anyway, I think if anything this percentage may be true for Koreans, but not all East Asians. The 'Southerners' of East Asia usually have double eyelids. One last thing, if the wife grew up in America Instead of Korea, it's also possible that she sees everything through the 'Western' lens.
Well, being in America, the Asians I know have organizations where they talk about these issues. I had several Asians in my race/cultural discussion group on meetup.
We met twice a month to talk about different topics on race and culture.
Great Take! I agree with William Shockleys quote and how different races were being underrepresented in the media. I also agree that we might subconsciously place individuals in groups and make assumptions.
Though my problem with the people yelling "White Privilege" is that some people assume that white people need to be punished for their underrepresentation. We need to stop grouping people, and respect this as a problem that lies within society, not at the hands of one particular race.
No, this is definitely not about punishment. And it is hard to talk about the subject when people are constantly interjecting their issues into what is a simple conversation. Does "White" privilege exist? Of course it does. And if you are a non-"White" you had better learn to navigate it.
It just the way it is.
Of course, I don't believe in Shockley's quote. If I did, I would not have created the "take". I would be in some kind of skin bleaching facility.
Notice how I never said "It didn't exist". To get back on Shockleys quote: I disagree with him in the sense of colored individuals existing for solely that reason, but I agree with him when he says that we make these predictions about people.
The same subconsciously happens when you see someone with many tattoos for example. Despite not intending to, we judge them based on their appearance. That is until you really get to know them.
I didn't have any intentions of offending you. Nor do I want to put words in your mouth.
Oh, I didn't say you denied. I was simply restating my premise and what I thought was the solution to it. Which is, figure out how to deal with and overcome it. If a non-"White" person expects people will move it out of the way, they are being silly.
But I think we understand each other, except for the tattoo thing. A person can choose to have tattoos or to have them removed. We are born looking the way we are.
And if it were possible to change skin color and phenotype, you would have many non-"Whites" doing whatever they could to become "White".
So does Africa have Afro-centric beauty standards and Black privilege? After all, why would the majority of their models and most beautiful lists consist of only black people? Don't they know that they are not the majority of the world's population, and that Asia is? It's just common sense, that a majority white country will have more products, and models reflecting it's general population. It's not a conspiracy, it's basic math and representation. Africa with majority black areas will have more afro-centric beauty standards. You know what? That's ok with me, I don't have to be a cry baby and type elaborate bullshit articles about black privilege. Just migrate to a black majority country, with your people. You'll be happier.
Of course Africa has its beauty standards. And most Africans have an appreciation for "African" beauty standards. I am talking about the U. S.
And right, it is common sense. I don't know why people claim that it does not exist. As for migration, why would I do that? I am happy in the U. S. I know about "White" privilege and decades ago, I went and did the things necessary to help me develop some pride in African-American beauty standards, culture, and history.
It's not white privilege. It's living in a country where the majority of the people happen to be a different race. You act like there were never any black people celebrated for their beauty, but that is a clear lie. They had African American actresses back in the 50's such as Dorothy Dandridge. If I lived in a majority black country, I wouldn't whine about "black" privilege. The majority of the population is black, and it's common sense that there are not as many white people who would be present in every day life or things advertised. Grow a backbone.
I'm sure textbooks in Africa reflect more African heritage and history. In China or India, it's the same thing. Again that's not privilege, it's just history that is relevant to the geographical region and the nation that currently stands. African history did not have a significant impact on the British colonies that became the United States. Just common sense really.
Of course it is “White” privilege. It isn’t Irish privilege right? In Ireland it could be called that. In France, we could call it French privilege. In Russia, we would call it Russian privilege.
Of course “Black” people have celebrated their beauty. If we didn’t have “Black” people who did that, I would not be here.
And don’t lie, there are “White” people who whine about “Black” privilege all the time. Even here in this country. They project their standards of “Whiteness” universally” and when “Black” people create a space to celebrate “Black” social norms, they call “Blacks” racist. And any attempt to have inclusion in the mainstream is called PC.
As for the whole backbone thing. Get original and lose your guilt over “White” privilege. Maybe you don’t have anything to be ashamed of.
And point is. . . maybe none of us do. But go figure.
No such thing as white privilege. And I feel no guilt at all. Like you said, you don't want to leave here so it can't be that bad. White privilege is just made up arbitrary bullshit. White people can't find white features attractive? That really is one of your arguments to "white privilege. Euro-centric beauty standards and cultural norms, well no shit most of the inhabitants of this country came from Europe. I don't care if blacks have Ebony magazine, or like big booty women, or if black panther has an all black cast. People like what they like, and if some in the black community or elsewhere want to look white, then that is their problem and it has something to do with their minds. I accept who and what I am, and I certainly wouldn't guilt trip blacks and claim that Afro-centric beauty standards make some white women surgically get their lips fuller. Some people are happy with themselves, and others try to drastically change what they are.
You feel something. Because you claim that "White" privilege is just a function of society. Yet, here you are debating what?
Are you actually debating whether or not the average "White" person can and does find himself/herself attractive and the people of his/her culture attractive also?
Of course "White" people think they are attractive. Of course, their social norms, etc. have to be observed if non-"Whites" are to navigate this society.
You are making zero fucking sense. Why are we not allowed to have our own beauty standards and culture without you guys being cry babies about it? I get it, you don't have Euro-centric features, so that means whites can't find those features attractive because you naturally don't have them? They have Afro-centric beauty standards in Africa. Their statues, artwork, everything in their culture reflected their people and what they looked like. Europeans weren't really in Africa during most of it's history. It's not a big deal to me. So why is it you are offended because we have our models, beautiful people lists, etc? Obviously our statues, artwork, deities, myths, etc would contain people that looked more like us. I thought that would be common sense, but you call it white privilege and put a derogatory spin on it. Apparently we can't be beautiful, successful, or prosperous without it somehow being immoral in your eyes.
Dude you are making zero sense. You talk like a complete and total idiot. You are so filled with guilt and rage, you can't even read my posts. We agreed! Then you wet nutso freakshow.
You said that "White" privilege was just a function of society. I agreed. Then after that your head exploded.
So now you are accusing me of saying "Whites" can't have their own beauty standards, when it is evident "White" people have their own beauty standards. I illustrated that in my "take". It isn't even a debate. In fact, it isn't even a debate if they should have their own beauty standards.
The problem is that non-"White" social norms and beauty standards called racist by the anti-PC crowd. It isn't enough that "Whites" rank themselves number one. But if other groups don't reach the same conclusion, it is racist.
There is no white privilege. Period. No one said it is a function of society.
privilege: noun : a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.
No where did I list that we have any special rights or privileges because we are white. You are the one making that baseless accusation, and you have yet to list any special rights that we have that you do not. None of your points remotely mention any rights, it mentions some people trying to emulate European features, the history taught in American schools, a theoretical chant people do around a television set when crimes are committed, and the fact that you feel, keyword being feel, is that "whiteness" is somehow universally projected even though you have never experienced life in other parts of the world.
Well again, of course there is. Of course "White" people have immunity to being profiled. According to many, many "White" people. A lot of them are right here in this take.
I don't have to mention any "special rights". How many times have you been pulled over because you had to prove you are an American citizen?
Are you afraid that after the next "terrorist" attack that you will be scrutinized more closely when you go to the store, get on an airplane, or attend a public gathering?
There are just common sense situations and many people on this take agree with principles of "White" privilege, chief among them is that "Whites" cannot be profiled for bad behaviors or negative beliefs.
Really, you have been pulled over just to prove you are an American citizen? Secondly, everyone goes through airport security. They don't single out anyone, people are randomly selected for further screenings. Yeah, I recall some blacks profiling us as "mass shooters" even though only a handful of whites in a country of 319 million committed such acts.
Really? So "Black" people have stopped and searched you because you fit the description for a mass shooting?
And I never said I had to prove I am an "American". I have not been profiled for being an illegal immigrant, but you knew that before you made that stupid statement.
My profiling has to do with just being a criminal, the type who wears a suit and tie.
The funny thing is you seem ambivalent about profiling, since you claim you were stopped by "Blacks" for looking like a mass shooter, did you like it? Do you agree that "Whites" should be profiled? When you were standing there while "Blacks" were rifling through your briefcase and belonging in front of everyone. . . did it feel good?
Not stopped by police, but yes when Dylan Roof shot up that church I got a few looks in a predominately black church, even though it was some friends who brought me there. And Again, doesn't prove white "privilege." When I went to a Jamaican club, the bouncer was excessively thorough on my pat down as well, versus my friend who was of Jamaican ancestry.
You really need to think about what you are arguing. Are you saying it is okay to profile or not? So was it cool that "Black" people look at you suspiciously because you came to a "Black" church?
This is what has happened with supposed discussions about race which are actually discussions about culture. Because there is so much avoidance, pain and guilt around the conversation, when we to try to talk about it strange leaps in logic occur.
Maybe racism is a bad thing. No matter who does it.
Just saying.
But if you are going to defend it. . . then defend everyone's right to be racist.
It is incredible that your definition of privilege is that a "Black" man can kill someone "White" and not have a big media story about the murder. As though every time a "White" person kills a "Black" person everyone knows. And it is even stranger that privilege isn't defined as not having the stigma of criminality hovering over you simply because you are "Black".
I guess my point in all of that is that it's a matter of perspective. I'm not defending racism.. You act like whites never face any scrutiny, profiling, or negativity in life. You stated that we have "white privilege," and that we don't face any types of distrust or adversity, but we do. High profile murders such as the Dylan roof murders fuel that tension. I was just giving some small examples that yes, when evil things happen we are not immune to other races looking down on us or treating us with suspicion.
Do you think "White" people should face that negative scrutiny? It is funny, no one is answering that question.
I submit through this take no one likes to be negatively profiled. Not even "White" people. So why pretend that it is a good thing? Why get angry that people recognize it and do what they can to cope with it?
I cannot understand that. Can you help me understand that?
"Union talked about the “panic” and “numbness” she felt after finding out via Snapchat that her sons were participating in a game referred to as the “drive-by dunk challenge,” where kids drive through the neighborhood and dunk in any basketball hoop they passed.
It seems innocent enough, but Union was worried about Florida’s open-carry and “stand your ground” gun laws; "
It is okay to be ignorant. I was ignorant of issues with Latinos, Asians, Arabs, etc. and I am still largely ignorant of the "White" one in this regard. But I can't find many "White" people who will talk about that experience. And I don't understand.
If we are all just regular human beings. None of us is more important than another, all of us deserve equal access to opportunity and justice. . .
why are we arguing about whether or not profiling is wrong. . .
1. Did not ever happen with me but you could argue it is because whites are the minority here.
2. Often verbally fight over many social norms that I disagree with. Thankfully I'm very reclusive. If you wish to provide specific examples though that'd be better.
3. Yeah if we pull out the OkCupid statistics white people are generally sexually looked favorably upon.
4. I could mention that media is primarily left wing, in other words contributing to "white guilt". Ironically the left is also the most racist towards others as well.
5. I'm against (legal) racial profiling. Although statistics are statistics and I do base many of my beliefs off of them.
6. If someone doesn't want to be a member of their ethnic group then that sounds like a personal problem to me. You also bring "culture" into it and as long as we both have American culture then I don't see why you wouldn't be proud to be a member of the best nation on the planet. Excessive worrying means they don't have enough patriotism. The problem isn't enough nationalism.
2. I gave examples. Attractiveness is just one. Education is another. Please read the take.
3. Right.
4. I can't even understand that. Anti-PCdom condemns "White" liberals for spreading "White" guilt yet at the same time, the standards for "White" social norms is enforced by the Hollywood elite. Maybe it is not possible for something to be two things at once.
5. Right, you believe you are totally objective and rational when non-"Whites" are profiled. The debate about statistics does not matter. It only matters what you believe.
6. You got lost here. Maybe you need to go back and figure out do you accept that "White" people are a group, a race, a culture or whatever. I will wait for you.
7. How is it generalizing? You agree with the conclusions about profiling, statistics, attractiveness, etc?
2. You listed attractiveness and sure there are statistics for that one. However, minorities have a huge advantage when it comes to affording education. I did manage to force myself to read this yes.
3. As you mentioned in 2.
4. I was referring to the left spreading lies about white people in an attempt to make them feel guilty while at the same time supporting racist policies like abortion and welfare.
5. I said I am against using racial profiling for legal matters. Even though statistics could back up racial profiling being more efficient.
6. Here is the misunderstanding. It's not about white people it's about nationality. When I look at people I of course see their skin color, hair color, eye color, height etc. but it's not about that. It's about whether they're Americans or not. If someone who is black for example feels insecure because they're black I believe that they have a very serious lack of patriotism.
(Still 6.) To draw it out further I don't care what white even is. Trying to determine what is "white" is incredibly difficult and pointless. While determining if someone is a U. S. citizen actually matters and is easier to do.
7. Saying that all anti-PC people agree with fantasy profiling. Saying they all lack diversity in their every day lives. Saying they all think diversity in thought, culture, traditions, norms, etc. is a PC conspiracy when the left is the ones that keep censoring right wing trains of thought.
1. And? I am talking about American society. We all watch the same television shows. The same news shows. We all get the same media imagery, etc.
2. Well, you didn't seem to know about some things I posted. It is funny, you actually use the term minority, yet you don't even acknowledge you just projected privilege. As for educational advantage, what are you talking about? Here is my example.
We are often told by the anti-PC crowd about the "modelminority". So what we should see is an overrepresentation of Asians as CEOs and in corporate leadership positions.
4. Right, you feel these are "lies". Yet what ever is "spread" about the particular non-"White" group on the chopping block for the day is only objective truth. I guess you may not be sure of what the word "privilege" means.
"a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people."
5. Right. I noted that. I can't think of a single debate about race, "White" privilege, etc. where statistics was not mentioned.
6. I am not here to talk about your personal beliefs. Indeed, if people only focused on the individual and only on a person's personal beliefs, we would not even be having this conversation. But this is not the world we live in.
And the thing that is funny, I have not claimed it was good or bad. But it is a fact of life.
So it is not true? How can you be anti-PC and be supportive of Multiculturalism? And please understand, I am certain my definition of diversity is probably much different than your own.
The funny thing about the anti-PC crowd is that though their philosophy is all about stereotyping and profiling, they don't like being profiled or stereotyped.
"I was referring to the left spreading lies about white people in an attempt to make them feel guilty while at the same time supporting racist policies like abortion and welfare."
It is just a weird conversation to have, when you can't even own the words you say.
1. You said "All schools, even those where your people/children are not a majority, need to focus on the history that supremely concerned with and glorifies what you have deemed "your people"."
White people were not glorified. I said you can argue it's because my teachers were all hispanic but it seems like you wanted to just change the argument entirely.
2. Your entire post is about something that doesn't exist and you're saying I don't know about it yet you make statements that provide little detail. Don't pretend that non-whites don't get grants just for not being white. What statement are you trying to make with Asians? I hope this isn't more assuming all Anti-PC people believe this or that again.
4 & 5. As I said before DESPITE statistics supporting racial profiling I am against it. As this is a free country you are of course allowed to believe whatever you want. I personally believe statistics when a multitude of sources say something, plus Pew Research Center, the government, or both. If you wish to discuss certain statistics that you believe are untrue I'm all for it. Science/Statistics may not be perfect 100% of the time but it's all we have and a rational person would believe evidence most of the time.
6. You asked me what white was and previously implied non-whites were not comfortable with their own skin. I explained how I cannot define white and why I do not need to. I also provided what I believe to be the solution to non-whites being uncomfortable.
The funny thing is that unfairness can occur to whites and especially when they're mistreated as the minority no one seems to care.
Correct, the majority of what you say are based on lies. "Fantasy profiling" is based on actual statistics like how the "fantasy theory of gravity" is based on actual scientific study. However, your wide generalizations and lack of details make it hard to pin down what you believe these are and I believe you do this on purpose to compensate for your weak argument. Yes multiculturalism will be different to us so if you want a yes or no I'm going to make you actually be specific about something for once.
I like how you generalize in an attempt to shame me for generalizing when I'm actually not generalizing and then have the audacity to act as if I should be ashamed of what I've said.
I'm starting to wonder if you're just trolling or if you're serious at this point. In either case I will never turn down talking about this issue it involves lying about me. That makes it personal.
1. I am sure from your position, it is only “truth-telling”. I had “White” and “Black” teachers by the way. And I learned nothing meaningful about the African, Asian and Latin history until I was in college. Indeed most of my education about history outside of the Europe came after college. When a history teacher tells you that is only because Europe is the most important history to study, that is “glorifying” to me. I doubt you would claim something different it someone told you something similarly about African history.
2. And don’t pretend that non-“Whites” do not have to deal with the stigma or not working hard simply because they are not “White”. The anti-PC crowd believes that non-“Whites” especially “Blacks” are given all that they have. You guys pretend that the only reason why “Whites” are successful is because of hard work and everyone else is only in the equation because of your supposed tax dollars.
Sorry, I won’t let you get away with that. The point is you believe the statistics support your conclusions. I don’t know if you believe in race or not at this point. It is hard to tell.
But the point is from the standpoint of “White” privilege, this is classic. Your assertions do not arise from bias in your opinion. It is a logical, reasonable, objective assertion that profiling is supported by “statistics”. I am not here to argue statistics. I know have been in too many conversations about race to argue with a guy clinging to statistics to know the truth about the human experience. The statisticians of raciology are beyond fact, logic or reason and I won't question your beliefs. Faith is a powerful thing.
But again, that’s the point. You can discriminate, but it is different when you experience it. Right? Because there isn’t a logical, objective, or rational reason for discriminating against “Whites”. Isn’t that your assertion?
Its weird that you don’t admit that simple fact of your experience.
Discrimination against non-“Whites” is a logical conclusion that you have reached. But discrimination against “Whites” is a bad, bad thing. It is biased and a product of subjective thinking. It isn’t based upon fact or logic. And non-“Whites” should care deeply about your concerns.
How am I hard to pin down? I posted this “take” with only one goal, to show the reality of “White” privilege. Now you can talk about anything you wish. I will engage you when you try to disprove my assertions.
You already know I am not “trolling”. But I am wondering if you are.
The premise is simple. “White” privilege exists. And the anti-PC crowd proves it every single time they tell us about how some groups are better than others based upon their statistics, their racist fantasies and their nonsense.
1. My schooling as horrible as it was in quality was very different from yours. My history was state history, country history, & then world history which focused mainly on the middle east, india, china, 12 or so major religions, & then only brought up Europe in the WW1 & WW2 segment. Philispohers/Scientists were also mentioned and they were usually European/Asian but that's not favortism they were what they were.
2. My point is that minorities are given so much that for racism to actually cost you thousands and thousand of dollars is ridiculous. There is a very simple way to ensure no one ever accuses another black person of making it from their privilege again. Stop forcing businesses to hire based on race and stop giving out grants based on race. It's that simple because you don't see whites getting all of these handouts based on their race.
If a statistic states something, it's a fact no conclusion is needed. If you're not going to accept facts why do you expect people to accept your opinions? Then you were saying something along the lines of "Yeah there's 2+2 and you simply drew the conclusion that it's 4." as if you're trying to make it sound like it's fake. Yeah you could say I believe in race but most people are already mixed. Like if you ask me "Are you white?" I'm going to say "Yes." because I look at myself and I have white skin. I'm not fully "white" but it doesn't matter.
You say you're not here to argue statistics and then bring up faith. Statistics are factual. I operate factually. You cannot seem to provide evidence for white privilege though so you seem to operate more in a faith based manner. This is like an atheist arguing with a very religious person. The argument will not go anywhere as both cannot even agree on the basics.
But again, I seem to have to explain this and I'll be using more examples. Black people commit violent crimes at vastly higher rates compared to other races BUT most black people are innocent therefore there should not be racial profiling against all blacks. White people are the second most prosperous race in the U. S. BUT most white people still are not rich therefore you should not assign privilege to all whites.
Now that we've covered how there is no proof of white privilege or as you said "It isn’t based upon fact or logic." tell me why I should take it on faith?
You're hard to pin down because you jump from one generalization to another with no evidence or data. Instead, I'd suggest doing this...
Since we already know it's about white privilege.
1. Make a specific point about a key point. 2. *Insert data/research/statistics* 3. Flesh everything out more, the key point, the data, even inserting opinions is ok, but too many opinions/generalizations make an awful argument.
Alright, I know you're probably going to respond to all of this first. After you're doing replying how about we go over every single point one by one and not move onto another topic until that number is finished. The only condition is that you have to acknowledge factual data and not say "facts don't matter" or something along those lines. I only say that because if can't even establish that much then this is a giant waste of time for everyone.
Your point that "White" people in general know mostly only about Middle Eastern, Indian, Chinese history? Really? I am just saying that isn't true. If that was your experience, that is abnormal. I am a "Black" man who knows more about King Henry VII, than I know about famous person in African history. I know more about a fat drunk King who regularly had his wives executed than any one in African history because of my schooling.
I don't force businesses to hire based on race. If you want to end AA, just keep voting Republican. They don't like AA. What do you want me to do about it? But to pretend that merit based hiring was ever a thing in America is just living in fantasy. You already talk about "statistics" and the justification for profiling people based upon that. So I already am pretty sure you wouldn't hire people based upon "merit". Its like you don't even read what you type.
I don't have time to deal with your confusion about who you are. If you believe you ain't "White", you ain't "White". If you believe you are "White", then you are "White". It has nothing to do with your genetic makeup. I am absolutely certain I have European heritage. As almost every African-American. But we are still "Black" people.
Obviously, you have much invested in this conversation. Even though you have beliefs about "Blacks" and crime. And even though you think profiling is justified because of your interpretation. You deny that in itself create privilege.
You think your beliefs are only an objective rational conclusion about the limited capabilities or negative behavior of "Black" people. Many people of course share your view. And of course, that constitutes "White" privilege. And I submit, it does not just stop with "Black" folks.
If you have strong believe in race and in this mythology of racial behaviors/beliefs, then you have stereotypes in your head of other groups you consider to be non-"White". They manifest, when convenient. Just like with Bassem here below;
Again, your premise is nonsensical. I do not jump around. I made a simple statment and gave a simple argument. You have interjected everything from your confusion about being "White", statistics about "Black" crime, etc.
You already stated that you believe the conclusions of profiling. But you don't agree with it. That of course, is nonsensical. If I were to have a son, I would have to warn him about people like you. I would have to tell him that there are people who will never know the special unique person that he is. That some people can only know him through stats and racist stereotypes of supposed negative behaviors.
And that his challenge will be to navigate around those people and knock down any barriers they erect for him.
You will never have that talk with your son, if you have one. You don't even think "White" people can be stereotyped or profiled, even if you believe other groups can be.
And I don't need to insert research that you would reject.
Alright we will continue the paragraphs since you do not wish to dissect your opinions one by one.
"All schools, even those where your people/children are not a majority," is why I said that. There were a couple of white people in my classes and that was it. There were a couple of black people too including the Principal but that was it. I told you my experience and that's what happened. Yours sounds abnormal to me because we never even learned about King Henry.
No, you don't force them to hire based on race but someone who not only believes in the white privilege myth but is attempting to spread it doesn't sound like they're trying to help the situation. Yes, I do vote republican/libertarian as they don't usually support racist policies like the Democrats do. You use the word "justification" very loosely as you know I oppose racial profiling. You're "pretty sure" I'm not going to hire people based on merit? As a capitalist that has to be one of the most ridiculous accusations I've-
ever had made against me. Do you realize how counter-productive it is to higher based on race/sexuality/gender etc? No sensible person is going to higher some retarded person just so they punish someone with that gender/race/sexuality that they don't like. We just want to make money! I'm extremely against gay culture but if some gay person is more efficient then those straight people have to go. It's 100% merit based for maximum profit. To pretend otherwise is when you enter fantasy land.
I have zero confusion about who I am, I'm an American. So according to your logical if I believe I'm an attack helicopter I'm an attack helicopter? Again, you use justified loosely. I think it being just or unjust matters much more. You seem to project such hate against me for stating facts rather than doing something productive like trying to figure out why things are the way that they are.
There is no evidence to suggest that black people have any limited capabilities. There are statistics that show disproportionate crime rates. Black people are poorer on average. This results in more crime. It's incredibly basic to comprehend.
More telling me what I believe...
Let me tell you something that I actually believe. If you were actually open to discussion you'd pick one point at a time instead of jumping around when you lose ground.
Nonsense. America was a capitalist state from its inception. Yet it created racist institutions, created the religion of race and racism, and all the mythology that goes with it for the exact purposes of keeping resources from certain groups and control over others.
A capitalist is merely a human and every human has their biases and beliefs. This society was built upon the mythology of race, evident by your beliefs decades after it was scientifically disproven. If this supposed capitalistic society was so concerned for profit, we would open immigration to all Asians and let them build the technological and business infrastructure for this nation. Because they excel at the skills we claim are critical for success. They would be overrepresented in our corporate leadership and engineering positions.
I work in the tech field and the best engineers I know and have employed are Indian.
Again absolute nonsense. I have picked up talent because people thought "Indians were thieves". Or that "Arabs were terrorists". I have employed and worked with the rainbow. And many people (not all of them "White") have superstitious beliefs. Its weird you don't even acknowledge your own superstitions with regards to race and the weird science of racial behaviors. It is mythology, not scientific, not factual. . . yet you believe steadfastly in this fantasy.
And I show in my take, that the prevailing reason for creating race was for defining the capacities and talents of the different supposed races. Did you read the take? Did you read the quote from Dr. William Shockley?
You believe in a superstition that was created to categorize and rank people. You believe it tells you something about a person. Their race is something vital to your assessment. Yet, you claim it does not figure into your ability to judge their abilities. Hogwash.
Wait, there is no evidence that "Black" people have limited capabilities, yet there is evidence they commit more crime?
You are so confused. And you are so young. Young sir. You need to create your own philosophy of life. Trying to simply adapt what you have heard will screw you up.
Race is not real. I am "Black" which means African-American. I already know the capacity of my people. I work with them. I was born to "Black" parents. I have "Black" friends, I grew up with, worshipped with "Black" people.
You have run this conversation so far afield of what the premise was. Then you say I am jumping around.
The premise is simple, it is "White" privilege. And you prove the premise, almost every single time you post.
Maybe you need to figure out what you want to talk about. You have the ability to create your own take. But if you don't have the ability to talk about the subject, that is not my problem.
I'm going to start quoting you very specifically because if you think even half of what you say makes sense you're so far off.
" America was a capitalist state from its inception. Yet it created racist institutions, created the religion of race and racism, and all the mythology that goes with it for the exact purposes of keeping resources from certain groups and control over others."
Sure, it's been fairly capitalistic. The only way this would make sense is if you believe everyone today is extremely racist and would not hire based on merit and would instead judge on race. If you truly believe this you're brainwashed and there's no hope for you. Provide data showing business owners are racists.
"If this supposed capitalistic society was so concerned for profit, we would open immigration to all Asians and let them build the technological and business infrastructure for this nation Because they excel at the skills we claim are critical for success. They would be overrepresented in our corporate leadership and engineering positions."
First of all assuming all Asians are good with technology is racist. Secondly, Asians are free to choose whatever jobs they desire within the United States. Third, Asians make $19,000 more on average than white people in the U. S. I'd say Asians are on average doing a really good job and don't need you dictating what they should or should not go into.
"Its weird you don't even acknowledge your own superstitions with regards to race and the weird science of racial behaviors."
If a report comes out and says there's more women than men in the U. S. guess what? It means what it means. If a study comes out that say relatively more people are attracted to Asians and white people. It means what it means If a study comes out that says black people relatively commit more crimes. It means exactly what it means. Facts do not care about your feelings. You cannot cherry pick and claim to be a reasonable person. You can call facts and data mythology, fantasy, and not scientific if you want. That still is literally science. I have never had anyone EVER argue that evidence is unscientific. The very thing science relies on.
"And I show in my take, that the prevailing reason for creating race was for defining the capacities and talents of the different supposed races. Did you read the take? Did you read the quote from Dr. William Shockley?"
I wanted to go over your take point by point and destroy it point by point. But, you did not seem willing to do that because if you are limited to a single topic you will not be able to form a very long response because you have absolutely no evidence and purely opinions.
"You believe in a superstition that was created to categorize and rank people. You believe it tells you something about a person. Their race is something vital to your assessment. Yet, you claim it does not figure into your ability to judge their abilities. Hogwash."
Hogwash! How can there be someone who believes in science, is right wing, AND ISN'T RACIST? HOW COULD IT BE POSSIBLE? HE MUST BE RACIST! That is essentially what you're saying there. I assure you I actually do exist.
"Wait, there is no evidence that "Black" people have limited capabilities, yet there is evidence they commit more crime?"
Correct, I have never seen any scientific evidence to ever suggest that black people could not do everything a white or Asian or hispanic person could. What would hold them back? I request scientific evidence if you disagree.
"You are so confused. And you are so young. Young sir. You need to create your own philosophy of life. Trying to simply adapt what you have heard will screw you up."
There are very few topics of which I have no opinion and to say I am "confused" about them is a stretch at best. Don't dare try playing the age card. I have my philosophies already hammered out. It seems you do as well but you don't back them up with studies, data, facts etc. That bothers me but you have every right to still believe in all of that.
"Race is not real. I am "Black" which means African-American."
I do not like the term "African-American" just as I do not like the term "European-American". I see that as belittling the U. S. and putting senseless stock in some other inferior location. We should be proud to be Americans. If someone looks white call'em white if someone looks black call'em black. If someone looks white to me and black to you I'll call'em white and you can call them black. All that matters is that they're American.
"I already know the capacity of my people."
?
"You have run this conversation so far afield of what the premise was. Then you say I am jumping around."
You replied to me disproving your arguments with generalizations. I then proposed later on to go over them one by one. You refused to even acknowledge that proposal to do so.
"The premise is simple, it is "White" privilege. And you prove the premise, almost every single time you post."
You post generalizaitons and opinions. I give you statistics. I have evidence and you do not. I have disproved white privilege and you've proven you disregard evidence in favor of what you want to believe. I wish a multitude of people read our responses. I'm confident they would not share your confidence unless they already believed in the white privilege myth.
"Maybe you need to figure out what you want to talk about. You have the ability to create your own take. But if you don't have the ability to talk about the subject, that is not my problem. "
This is the difference. You are TALKING about it. I am DISPROVING it. You're talking about it like you're at a coffee shop. I'm destroying it like I'm in a debate club. I want you to actually pull out some proof instead of justifying it through generalizations and opinions. This is why I thought you were just trolling.
So in order for "White" privilege to exist, every single person in America must believe in racism?
Uhm. . . that's insane.
I know hundreds of "White" people who do not believe in race, they do not believe in racism. They do not judge people by race nor do they believe anything about racial statisics.
In fact, the largest group of Anthropologists in the world, you know. . . the scientists who disproved "race", is mostly comprised of "White" people.
I don't think you are even attempting to be logical any longer.
You don't own the mythological "White" race. You can lay claim to a small subset of culture where people think the same as you. But this supposed racial connection. . .
It is amazing the things that are racist to you and things that are not. Assuming that Asians are all smart, which of course is an assumption I did not make, is racist. But saying that "Blacks" commit more crime is not.
I don't even believe in a concept called the "Yellow Race" or the Monogloid people. That's your belief system. So own your words.
I am simply taking your beliefs and applying it using your logic.
If I am a believer in race and I claim that one can make assessments of an entire race of people, what would I do if I ran a tech or engineering firm.
And I let you do this to me again. What does this have to do with my premise?
Can you explain why should your opinion of what I call myself should matter to me? I don't really care what you the name for my identity does or does not do. You think I am a member of a "race" and that can help you understand something about me. To me that is belittling me.
And this is the source of your confusion. You use the term race to claim you are only referring to a person's skin color. Which means you are only fooling yourself. Because when you talk about "races" you will always refer to how people behave or what people believe.
Then there is the obvious. Is my skin "Black"? Can you see my skin is "Black" by looking at this page that is open in your web browser?
It isn't even a sane thought.
Your insistence that people identify in a way you demand is meaningless and your concept of race again. . . was scientifically disproven. If you know of a scientific study proving it, please find it.
You do not have evidence. You don't even have science on your side. You cling to mythology that is scientifically disproven. Then you claim I have the delusion.
The delusion is race and that race means anything outside of your brain.
In your racial world that nonsense of claiming you only are denoting skin color, but you need to track statistics on these people to understand how they behave or what they believe.
I told you I was African-American. So, tell me my skin color.
That is insane.
Alexis Belon. Do you know her? She is about your age.
"So in order for "White" privilege to exist, every single person in America must believe in racism?
Uhm. . . that's insane."
What is insane is for you to insinuate that business owners TODAY are so racist that they would not hire based on merit and then refuse to provide any evidence for this claim WHEN ASKED FOR IT. Just as you have with every other unscientific opinion that you have.
"I don't think you are even attempting to be logical any longer."
You have zero proof but make a lot of claims. Good joke.
"You don't own the mythological "White" race. You can lay claim to a small subset of culture where people think the same as you. But this supposed racial connection. . .
it isn't real.
And that is based upon scientific fact."
I am white. I look white. I don't care if you consider that a race or not, it doesn't even matter if it is a race or not. I never said white people think the same as myself. We're all individuals not some collective hive.
"It is amazing the things that are racist to you and things that are not. Assuming that Asians are all smart, which of course is an assumption I did not make, is racist. But saying that "Blacks" commit more crime is not."
I did not accuse you of saying all Asians are smart. I said "First of all assuming all Asians are good with technology is racist." because you said "If this supposed capitalistic society was so concerned for profit, we would open immigration to all Asians and let them build the technological and business infrastructure for this nation. Because they excel at the skills we claim are critical for success." I then mentioned how Asians are on average the richest in the U. S. so I don't think they should be taking advice from you.
"I am simply taking your beliefs and applying it using your logic."
You haven't referenced a SINGLE study or statistic except some obscure thing about how you believe Asians should be in more CEO positions. I believe in studies and statistics. How can you say that when everything you spout (including about what you think I believe) is NEVER backed up with them?
"If I am a believer in race and I claim that one can make assessments of an entire race of people, what would I do if I ran a tech or engineering firm.
And I let you do this to me again. What does this have to do with my premise?"
Since you're "pretty sure" I won't hire people on merit I'll use myself as an example. There's been studies to show that the majority of geniuses are men. Do you think I'm only going to hire men and hope I strike gold with a genius? Give me a SINGLE reason why I shouldn't hire women or black people or hispanics. You can't do it. You can only make some illogical argument and then attempt to assign-
-it to me as if I believe it. I believe that's called a strawman.
My counter-argument was all of the benefits non-whites get. You claimed business owners would not hire based on merit. I requested evidence which you did not provide. Here we are now. Throughout this I've mentioned several times we go over it point by point and you still dismiss it because you know you will lose horribly.
So before I answer your eight different posts about eight different things that have nothing to do with my take.
Show me the scientific research that proves your theory of race."
Again, I'd love to destroy your MyTake one point at a time if you'd agree to do it that way.
That depends on what your definition of race is. According to the internet it is: "A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution". Two very defined words are ancestry and color. For example, my ancestry is Irish, Dutch, German, French, British, Scandanavian, & Native American. My color is white. However, in the previous study from the FBI it states white as a race. Assume it were not a race. White would still be white. The study would still be accurate. Whether someone refers to it as a race is irrelevant as it being a race or not would not change the amount of melanin in ones skin.
"Can you explain why should your opinion of what I call myself should matter to me? I don't really care what you the name for my identity does or does not do. You think I am a member of a "race" and that can help you understand something about me. To me that is belittling me."
What I think is that you've been exposed to some odd stuff and now you're saying what you've heard and use off the wall definitions. As your ideological mortal enemy aka "Anti-PC" person you should know I'd never try to regulate your speech and that it was my opinion. I do throw those out once every several days.
"And this is the source of your confusion. You use the term race to claim you are only referring to a person's skin color. Which means you are only fooling yourself. Because when you talk about "races" you will always refer to how people behave or what people believe."
Correct, if someone said skin color I'd say sure. If someone said ancestry I'd say sure too. Incorrect, I would refer to the-
-statistic of which they're talking about and then to automatically assume someone is something is racist so it would not be done. I can't believe I'm having to explain this to an American.
"Then there is the obvious. Is my skin "Black"? Can you see my skin is "Black" by looking at this page that is open in your web browser?
It isn't even a sane thought."
I don't see why I'd need to or want to, nor have I ever claimed I could tell through the internet. Talk about not having anything to do with the argument. Did you copy/paste this to the wrong place?
"Your insistence that people identify in a way you demand"
Never demanded. I said I didn't like it since it belittles the U. S. If you remember I also said a lack of nationalism is partly what is responsible for certain peoples insecurity.
"your concept of race again. . . was scientifically disproven. If you know of a scientific study proving it, please find it."
I've never said any definite answers of what race was. But, black does not exist? White does not exist? This is essentially what is happening right now. www.youtube.com/watch
"You do not have evidence. You don't even have science on your side. You cling to mythology that is scientifically disproven. Then you claim I have the delusion."
Provide evidence showing that white people and black people look the same. Show me scientific evidence that melanin doesn't matter and we all look the same color.
"In your racial world that nonsense of claiming you only are denoting skin color, but you need to track statistics on these people to understand how they behave or what they believe."
Excuse me if ending crime and poverty by recognizing their association with each other is getting in the way of your white privilege myth crap.
"I told you I was African-American. So, tell me my skin color.
That is insane.
Alexis Belon. Do you know her? She is about your age.
And. . .
She is a "Black" woman. She is African-American."
Welcome to one of my supporting reasons for being against things like police racial profiling. It depends what you mean when you say "African-American". Are you trying to say your color is black as most Africans are black? Are you trying to say you have African ancestry? Are you trying to say you were born in Africa and then moved to the United States? The only African-American I had in my family was white, blonde, and had blue eyes. Yet, I have a ton of black people in my family and one of them are African-American. As most of my friends are hispanic some of them were as white as I was but most of them were brownish. Luckily in the study that I linked it does say black/african American so I believe it means African ancestry. Which is linked to poverty. Which is linked to crime. This is easy
If you want to play this ridiculous game. Yes sir the color black exists. My laptop is the color black. My skin color is a different color. The color white also exists. If you go outside right now and look up, you will may see a cloud. They are usually white. Well, what color you claim to look like is on you. I have never seen a person who was literally white. They may exist. There could be some rare skin condition where a person is literally the color white. I have never researched such diseases however.
My ex is a geneticist. A microbiologist to be accurate. I could contact her and ask. If anyone would know. She would.
That said, I have never seen a person who was literally the color black. Though most would say that black is merely the absence of all color. That could be an interesting discussion if you wish to have it.
As for the tracking of crime statistics, since this your favorite subject to keep coming back to. We can take a tangent, I guess. But I will remind you my take is about "White" privilege.
You seem to think there is some site that tracks stats on race and crime. Can you please cite your source and statistics.
Then perhaps, we can get back to a conversation about "White" privilege, if you are able to have such a conversation.
I am going to do this only for brief moment. After this, I will have to refer you to books written by cultural anthropologists. Because I can't teach you the science of human differences. You have to take initiative and go to the library and do research.
From the minute I posted my take until this last post. The words "White" and "Black" were in quotes. I guess you never noticed it. But long ago, when I learned that race was not real, I realized that people were not actually these two colors. People were referring to something they believed to be true about the way these two groups behaved or what these two groups believed. Later as I became educated about the truth about human differences, I understood that the real determining factor was culture or how humans group identify.
Yes, I am African-American. I am a member of the culture created by the Africans who were brought to America as slaves. I can't speak to or for the Africans who came after that.
So that is what I am trying to say with my chosen identity. I don't care what you think about it. But most importantly, I don't even understand why should I care. I should care about the opinions of people I love, respect, and cherish. How would you like it if I had big problems with whatever term you used for yourself? It would be beyond stupid.
I don't care what Latinos, Hispanics, Asians, Asian-Americans, Chinese, Monogloids, whatever. . . they choose their identity and I will respect their choices.
This is America. And my forebearers died, some of them nightmarishly, horrible deaths, so I could have the freedom to live my life as I see fit. And I would be doing a disservice to them to do anything less than life my life as free as I can.
Ok, so we have established the we can see color. We also established there are shades of colors. Like black people (some say brown) could really be black or brownish. White people could be albino white or peach white.
I always thought white was an absence of color. After all we're not considered people of color, right?
I did. ucr. fbi. gov/.../table-43 This was my response when you asked for data earlier. It is from the fbi. gov.
I'm not talking about how "these two groups behave or what these two groups believe". I'm saying that a certain group is poor. Poverty causes crime regardless of which race. If they were flip flopped with any other different race they would have the same statistics as long as they had the same poverty rates.
Some say "Black" people are brown? Who says that? I don't know those people. And I have never heard anyone call "White" people, peach people or albino people. Didn't you know that "Black" people can be Albinos? Do you need photos for proof or aware of how to use a search engine?
No young sir. White is not the absence of light. White is the combination of all colors. Sunlight is an example.
My black grandfather uses black/brown/African American interchangably. Hispanic people here also used apricot or peach colored when referring to white people. White/gringo is the most common though.
From now on I'm going to refer to myself as a person of colors.
Sure. I wonder though how they calculated what is Black/African American. What do they believe determines race? Since people reference these statistics it is the definition that the FBI uses that truly matters.
Yeah, white privilege worked out really well for my people, the Cascarrians, think Native Americans but from Russia. We only fought a 101 year war with the Russians, that ended in the genocide of my people. The Russians claimed to have killed 90%, the UN commision on genocide said it was closer to 98%.
You say white privilege, I say fuck you.
We are just as white as any other whites. And we were killed by other whites just cause we wanted to keep our own land.
I live in America. Russia doesn't have a big "White" people problem. The problems I have noted in Eastern Europe, the Baltic states, etc. is one of ethnic and cultural conflicts. They date back centuries.
So unless you can bring your conversation to the American continent, we are done.
And please, read the "take". I put a lot of work into it.
Can't we all just agree that if you fucked up in life, you will not see any privilege?
White folks who lie, cheat, commit crime or do other undesirable stuff get as much stick as any colour. The white drug addict in the dock does *NOT* enjoy a privilege advantage over the black Yale educated judge who sentences him.
One commands respect and "good morning sir", everytime he walks into his office, he takes lunch with senators on Capitol Hill. While the other is looked on with scorn and disgust in Walmart and leaves people of his own race feeling ashamed to be associated with him.
That first sentence. . . what does that even mean?
Of course, a "White" drug addict can have privilege over a "Black" judge. A "White" drug addict can have privilege over a Latino business man. A "White" drug addict can have privilege over an Arab movie star.
Why did so many people read my "take" and only respond to the small part about "Black" people.
Did you read the take?
Would a "White" drug addict be stopped and asked to prove that he is a U. S. citizen?
Have you ever seen Gabriel Iglesias in concert?
"My team & I were pulled off my tour bus by officers in Arizona between Yuma & Phoenix. Even with my face on the bus they wanted to see my ID (no joke). I have madd love for AZ. & I just wanted you guys to know that this won't keep me away. Next time I will just wallpaper my bus with Larry "the cable guy" so I won't get stopped."
If privilege is about negative assumptions then you're so very wrong if you think white people don't make assumptions about white people based on first impressions. People of all colours judge other people of all colours based on appearances. There are plenty of derogatory assumptions people make. Over here these folks will get stopped and searched by police under the assumption they are doing something wrong, based off appearance. They are white yes, but they are associated with very negative things i.pinimg.com/.../...320213a6cb6ddb33f550fcbba0.jpg
As for that bus guy. Don't you think it's legit to stop a large vehicle so close to a border which is routinely crossed by illegal immigrants? FWIW i have no idea who that guy is, so its reasonable that the police officers didn't either. Asking for ID is procedure and routine... "Don't you know who i am? look at the bus bro" has never been a valid way of proving your identity.
You seem like a logical guy, but you post some very irrational things. A "White" person looks at another "White" person and thinks that their "Whiteness" could be the evidence of a crime or terrorist intent? Do you actually believe that Arabs are targeted because they are dressing a certain way?
I am just asking for a rational conversation.
You are talking about Gabriel Iglesias. So you are suggesting that all buses close to the border are stopped and searched? And that the all the non-Latin people simply don't mind being searched. That Iglesias is somehow more "sensitive" than a "Black", a "White", or an Asian person who is routinely in the same situation.
That he wasn't targeted because he was Latino?
He describes the incident. Did you read it? His face is on the side of the bus. In fact, one of the ICE agents recognized him. Knew his act. Was a fan. But they had to card him anyway because. . . you know. . . he could still be "illegal".
I’ll add the caveat that the situation is a little different in Europe. However, Im just putting forward the argument that privilege is not a racial thing, it’s an appearance (and status) thing. Your former president was a man named Barack Hussain Obama (he’d be current too if they allowed 3rd terms in office lol). That’s a shining example of where the racial privilege argument is destroyed by good connections, wealth, people skills and hard work.
People don’t look at whiteness or blackness or brownness or yellow or green or blueness either as evidence of criminal intent. They look at how they are dressed, how they act, how they speak how they generally conduct themselves. Do you think Asian workers walking out of Goldman Sachs are automatically assumed to be part of the triads off to collect their protection money? Put that Asian in a lowered Honda and cover him in tattoos with a cap on backwards... different perception.
But I have been all over Europe. I am going back next month and I am going to beg to hang out with Jacquesvol in Belgium.
Anyway, there is racism in Europe and it can be horrible.
But man it is just not the same. I was in Russia. I was terrified and I was totally wrong that racism would be the same way it was in the U. S., only worse. Sure, I got some stares. But what I noticed was that ethnic conflict matters way more. Russians are extremely nationalistic. Sure they might hold racist stereotypes of "Blacks". But man, the ethnic turmoil between Ukrainians and Russians, Latvians and Russians, Georgians and Russians is something to behold.
I can't tell you how many times my mouth was left hanging open.
As for the second part of your post, that's why I posted the videos in the take. And the thing is, among the responses in this take there are people who actually support that kind of profiling. What is your explanation for that? And there are people who share those feelings, and they are judges, police officers, politicians, loan officers, guidance counselers, tv producers, movie executives, music producers, CEOs, and corporate/business leaders.
I agree with you but I live in England and haven't been to America ever, so I'm painfully ignorant on this matter. I wanted to read your take as I realised that I didn't really understand what white privilege is. I think it extends to the UK too, though. It's probably quite similar. I'm moving to Japan this week so it'll be interesting to see how privilege manifests itself over there. I do think that white people feel some shame for their race. For instance, our past atrocities and white people do intentionally darken their skin colour either by tanning (despite cancer risk) or fake tan, or make up. I really enjoyed the video about Muslims in America. Enjoyed is not the right word but I thought it was a good video.
I agree the issues could be similar. I watched a racial conversation about issues in the UK last night. And I think that is an interesting conversation. I think in the case of Europe, there are definite cultural issues. The UK and America are different in this regard. The UK has to deal with issues of culture also. But the U. S. is multicultural. We are still dealing with the myth of race.
But whatever we think of "White" privilege, good or bad. It must be negotiated for an non-"White" person to be successful. And I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. I think perhap a few consequences are bad and may be they should be dealt with.
In the case of the UK, it is not just about not being "White", but also about not being entirely "British". Wouldn't that be fair to say? And again, I think that is just part of the deal.
Nope still don't agree. Are you white? If you are I don't know what you experience in life but some of the stuff you brought up such as not discussing the negatives of my "white" culture, feeling accepted etc complete bullshit. Most white people don't want to be pasty white, they tan cause they wanna look more healthy instead of pasty white.
It all depends on geography. If I as a white person go to Africa I won't be able to walk the streets without being stared down by everyone, being yelled at by kids etc. I know, cause I've been there.
I'm not saying there is no discrimination in the world or stereotyping but everyone deals with them.
They tan, but it isn't because they reject their skin color. Some people think they look better tanned. They are not trying to look like a brown or black person.
As for being in Africa, in no way can I speak to the experience of a "White" person in Africa. I have never been there.
And as for being oversensitive, you entirely missed the point of the take. And your response has nothing to do with anything I posted.
Then what is this mytake about? Proving white privilege excists? Black privilege excists too. I cannot go to every neighborhood in my country as I am white and a woman or I might get in trouble. Everyone has priviliges, also basically everyone deals with discrimination one way or another.
It funny how this "take" mentions several non-"White" groups, yet some folks are totally obsessed with "Black" people.
:D
You will never be profiled for being a criminal. And the thing is, you agree with that assessment. You will never be profiled for being an illegal immigrant. And again you agree with that assessment. You will never be profiled for being a terrorist, and again you agree with that assessment.
You agree that non-"White" groups can be profiled for different negative behaviors depending upon the situation.
Yet you don't believe "White" people can or should ever be.
Euhm ever heard of borders or countries? If I cross into a country I do not have the correct passport or visa for and I get caught I will be kicked out. Simple. That goes for everyone.
In a predominantly white country I wouldn't stand out as much, again was a much different story in Africa or Azarbaijan.
I'm also a woman so on avergae no one sees me as a criminal or a threat, like I said everyone has priviliges and advantages. So do men, so do whites, so do blacks , so do...
Fact is most terrorists recently have been of color, I've worked in security, you gotta profile.
You don't have to profile. You choose to profile. And if you were negatively profiled because you were "White" you would not like it. In fact, I am quite sure you would be highly upset.
Sufficed to say you missed the point.
You just acknowledged "White" privilege. It is a reality every non-"White" person has to deal with at some time or another.
Remember what you said when you first posted me? "Nope still don't agree".
I get negatively profiled for being a woman and yes white in certain countries or even areas of my own country. Seeing how you don't understand everyone has got privileges, I still do not agree with you.
You didn't even talk about my point. You talked about being a woman. So you went from denying that "White" privilege exists to claiming that everyone has some form of privilege.
That was quick. . . and weird.
Sufficed to say, it isn't like you disagree with "White" privilege. You agree with the principles of it. You just deny its effects on people who are not "White". Which as I have said several times in this thread, is nonsensical.
I am saying being oversensitive to someone's priviliges isn't gonna get you anywhere. Everyone has priviliges so it's idiotic to only point out "white" privilege. I talk about my own experience to prove you a point, obviously I cannot talk about being a Man, a handicapped person or an immigrant or whatever. You over generalize and sometimes frankly have no clue what you are talking about.
Why do I care about that assessment? It is nonsensical and it has nothing to do with my point. If I had dime for every time the anti-PC crowd made this all about them, their guilt or my success I would never have to work again.
This has nothing to do with your assessment of being oversensitive. This has to do with plain ole common sense. By your own admission you agree that non-"Whites" should be profiled. And I certainly do not believe you think "Whites" should be profiled for simply being "White".
Basic math says there are more "Whites" in this nation than non-"Whites". And if most "Whites" think like you, then that only certifies my point. "White" privilege exists. And if as a non-"White" person, you wish to survive it and be successful you had better understand it and how it works with respect to the specific stereotypes about your grouping.
Dude what the hell is the point of this take then? I do agree it is common sense when you go to a place you adapt to their culture, you follow the legal procedures to enter that country and you learn about it's language, history and culture if you seek to immigrate. My country has pretty much consisted out of whites, since ever. America , as far as I know is predominantly white too.
So this is awesome. You didn't even read the take? And what is this about immigration? I am not an immigrant. But if were to have children, I would have to sit them down and talk to them from time to time about how they could be profile.
It is common sense.
As for your country, I have no idea what is your country. And if you not an American. . . why are you posting me?
I did read it. You just make no sense. You keep saying I don`t understand you, you clearly do not understand me either, perhaps reread my answers?
No where in the title or beginning did you say this was only for americans. Might want to write a better title and take next time if you only want Americans to answer.
You brought up the immigrant subject, I just replied to it. Again reread the conversation.
? How can you say that? You are not even an American and you have no idea of how American culture even works. Why would I care about your critique? Are you here to defend the "White" race? I don't believe in race and if you suffer from this delusion, why on earth would I consider your view to be rational? It is based upon an irrational premise.
You are not going to tell me about American history or American culture which is what this take is about. If you want to talk about "Whiteness" in your own nation, I would be glad to hear about it. But I know what I was taught in school. I know what I experienced as a boy and a man in American society. And I know what we have to tell our young people about the folks who believe in crazed racist nonsense.
No, I didn't bring up the immigrant topic. I said I would never be profiled as an illegal immigrant or did you not understand that simple point?
Can you read? How ignorant can you be? Again didn't mention this was only for Americans, be more clearer next time buddy. Lots of different nationalities on this site, fyi.
I never said I was trying to teach you about American history , that's what you made out of that. All I said is that the majority of Americans are white. Am I factually incorrect?
"You will never be profiled for being a criminal. And the thing is, you agree with that assessment. You will never be profiled for being an illegal immigrant. And again you agree with that assessment. "
You brought it up saying I would never be profiled as an illegal immigrant and I told you I could be if I was illegaly in another country.
Yawn, stating that the take is about American society in the description of the take is not clear enough? You didn't read the take. You responded to the title.
And I thought you were an American, hence the reference to illegal immigration.
Description? More like after 1/4 of the take you mentioned the u. s. Dotn want others to respond? Mention it clearly in the title or the start of your take (nowhere did you say you didn't want responses from non Americans) or simply don't post on this site if you don't want responses from others.
Ilegal immigration happens everywhere it isn't just an American phenomenon. You seen to assume a lot don't you?
Well, the point of "takes" is that you read them. I don't know what else to say. Hey, it has happened to me. I have responded to titles too in the past. But that's my problem. Not the person who authored it. In regards to responses, I would rather respond to people who understand what I am saying and not to what they think my points could be.
I guess you really do not understand my point about being an illegal immigrant. You still think this is about whether illegal immigration is good or bad?
I think illegal immigration is illegal and a bad thing. I am not sure what you were looking for when you went into this topic.
So did you write non Americans aren't allowed to answer? Didn't see that no, if you so kindly could point it out for me that would be great!
I did read your take, buddy. You obviously don't understand what I'm saying.
Did I say anything about it being good or bad? Nope. Again you don't get it either. Judging by the amount of people who disagree with you I ain't the only one that sees the full picture.
I don't know what to say. I didn't say that non-Americans could not answer. If I did not want to talk to you, I could simply block you from the take. I am just waiting for the conversation to mature. Because though you may not be aware of how American culture/society works, you do know about about your own country and society. Maybe in one of these posts. . . you might mention something about that.
Then, we might actually have the opportunity to have a conversation.
As for people disagreeing with me. Long ago, a lot of people disagreed that I should even have the right to be a free man.
"Oh, get it, blacks are illiterate, hurrdehur-hur!" Gas yourself, you crypto-boomer gen-X degenerate. I run shit down here now, Gramps. You think you know internet memes? I AM INTERNET MEMES.
Simple economics proves its true, black in the USA inherit around $10000, whereas whites inherit $110000. That's not hard earned cash, that's money you get simply from the fact that your parents died. The whites get generations of money earned from ancestors, whereas African americans only receive wealth from a couple generations, because before that finding work was damn near impossible.
Well, I guess there is that. Most anti-PC types will point out that immigrant groups also came here dirt poor. And after a few generations they were able to build economic power. Well, perhaps they were not as poor as African-Americans. But that's what they will go with a rebuttal. I like that you note "African-Americans". Since the issue that I am pointing out is one of the myth of race. Although African and Caribbean immigrants have much higher rates of education an African-Americans or even "Whites", they still cannot get the the privilege of being an "individual" extended to them.
But the same goes for American Indians, Latinos, Arabs, and yes. . . even Asians.
And I think most non-"Whites" know this implicitly.
It isn't even a "White" and "Black" thing. It is a "White" and non-"White" thing. In truth, race only defined "White" people. That's why the rest of us are so confused about it.
Exactly! I don't understand why people always deny existence of white privilege. From the other side, I believe it is straight racism (white vs world) wrongly considered as privilege. Sure you can condemn it but can't deny it's existence.
Because I'm not really White nor do I surround myself with a lot of Caucasians, I struggle to understand White Privilege if it exists. Especially with all the mytakes and other blogs and stuff seemingly making weird assertions that conflict with each other.
Thanks for the take, though I'll only take it with a pinch of salt for now, I feel this has better clarity compared to other sources.
Well, thank you. I am not here to convince people of privilege. Its always hard to talk about racism, because there is so much guilt over. My "White" friend from my race discussion group said, "it is hard for some "White" people to talk about, because they view it was "White" people's original sin. They simply cannot relate to it as just being human and making human mistakes."
I always appreciate him speaking up and talking about that. And we remain friends to this day.
We have to learn about history that’s primarily white? You mean because white people were the leaders and overwhelming majority race for all of American history? If it wasn’t mostly white people it wouldn’t be accurate.
Enough with the ‘’white privilage’’ garbage. I know many black people who actually work hard and earn a living and treat women well and don’t glorify ‘’gangsters’’ or ‘’fucking the police’’ and guess what? They’re enjoying that same ‘’white privilage’’ that you mentioned. Because it’s not privilage, it’s just a better culture, anyone who adopts it will be successful regardless of their race.
Right, so how is your first statement disproving "White" privilege? Even if you think the fact that everyone has to know about your version of history is just a rational conclusion isn't that the very definition of privilege?
And I don't think you read the take. Of course, non-"Whites" need to understand "White" culture and social norms. Right? Isn't that what I said?
As for the rest of what you said, it is just drivel. It has nothing to do with what I wrote.
If you don’t like ‘’white’’ history, then learn about a non western country. Caucasians created most western countries, the US was created by caucasians and the majority of people for its entire history have been caucasian. If you wanna limit your personal knowledge by only recognizing those of your own race go ahead, but most of the country wants accurate history about the United States which involves primarily caucasians.
You don’t need to follow western culture either, Asian cultures have been successful in the US as well, and hispanic culture works too.
However, there are other cultures in the US that never have been and never will be successful, not due to ‘’privilage’’ but due to the mindset and actions of those within those cultures.
America is mostly white because (majority) Spanish and English explorers "discovered" the country, and decided that they wanted the land the native americans lived on- many wealthy americans became the overwhelming leaders by abusing and taking advantage of minority labourers and principally black slaves- surely you must know that? There were still non-white people, they just didn't write the history- that doesn't mean they weren't there.
History is written by the winning side- and those who could write it, not those who were used, repressed, and had to fight for fair rights to education.
I don't have to like "White" history. I have to know it. I don't have to like "White" culture. I have to know it in order to negotiate this society and become successful. But you can become successful without knowing thing about Medger Evers. You don't have to know who Cesar Chavez was. You don't have to understand the Sioux language.
But every one who is not-"White" in this country have to understand the norms that to you are simple as wearing your skin.
That's the point about "White" privilege.
Hence the name.
Again, you noting Asian and Latino culture (s) just proves my point. What are you required to know about them to be successful? Nothing. And if you were required to, you would howl to the moon about how unfair it was.
For most non-"Whites" this is a fact of life. They "code switch" typically. They talk and conduct themselves one way when in the dominant culture, then they switch back when they are in their own culture.
"6. Most "Whites" will never feel shame about being a member of their own culture. Most will never know what it is like to not want to be a member of your own ethnic group. "White" people don't have discussions about what is wrong with "White" people. The "culture" (as you all have noted, I claim "White" people is merely a cultural designation) isn't capable of that kind of debate. But among Asian-Americans, African-Americans, Latin-Americans, American Indians, Arab-Americans, those discussions are common. Most "Whites" are pretty comfortable in their own skin. They don't have surgery on their eyelids to look like Asians or try to take creams to darker their skin color. In the non-"White" experience there are always themes of the struggle to accept yourself, your culture, and your history."
So you are basically saying "It's a privilege to be proud of who you are". What about "Let's stop hating ourselves" instead?
Of course it does, but why focusing on that? If I was German I wouldn't feel guilty for them invading Poland as much as if I was Ugandian I wouldn't feel guilty for Idi Amin killing innocents. It's THEIR guilt, not mine.
So what? Do you think a white persons isn't aware of the damage that the Western/Internet culture have brought upon "old timey" communication systems? Is that what you think? We do. We are very aware of having used military advanced technology to take over the Native Americans when Europeans arrived to the Americas. Now, should I feel guilty about that? Don't think so. I wasn't there putting down Cherokee with a rifle. For the same reason, I am not the one imposing the social media and the network sharing in the working labour; won't feel guilty for something just because "my race did it".
I have a disagreement with point 6, not with point 1 to 5 nor point 7; I do not agree with those either for the most part, but I'm most likely neutral about them. Point 6 is just entirely wrong in my opinion instead, hence why I'm pointing to that one specifically.
Also, what would be the negative aspects of "Black culture"? The ghetto? If you are not part of it, why would you feel like it's your responsability. Everyone can decide if they want to give up and live the life they were imposed, or dying fighting it.
What in the world are you talking about? Anti-PCdom is absolutely not aware of "White" privilege. And if you want to feel guilt, I have a solution for you.
I have been looking at a brand new Hyundai 2018 Genesis. It is going to cost me about $28,000. I promise that if you write me a check for that amount, I will absolve you of all guilt.
Is that better?
Can we stop talking about nonsense and get back to the topic?
Again another nonsensical statement. You need to read your anti-PC manual. It says that I should be responsible for it.
You didn't listen well in anti-PC class. Go to the American Renaissance and get educated. They can teach you. I cannot. I am a not a racist. I don't believe in race nor do I believe a race can be better than another race.
Yawn. . . that was one of the most disconnected weird series of posts I have ever seen. I talked about the American experience specifically. I can't speak to or for other experiences. And I have no idea on earth why I should even try.
Not sure why you posted me when I specifically talked about the U. S.
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Blah blah blah, whitey so evil and so mean, always trying to enslave black people and kill muslims...
Then, there is the reality. More white people killed by black people and cops than the opposite. A racist speech openly accepted and shown by black people. Attacks every months by muslims in western countries. Affirmative actions only in favor of blacks and arabs. Discriminations against whites in big companies, without any consequences. "Diversity" only asked to white people, blacks can do à 95% black cast film and no one bitch about diversity.
You're right, there are privileges. But obviously, not in favor of white people. If black people in western countries hate whites so much, they can move to Africa, where there is much, much less white people. Oh of course, life is much harder there. Just shaming white people and asking for free stuff and privileges here is much easier, right?
"Nooh, you're so mean and racist, give me money, and let me insult you and take your place because i'm black, i'm oppressed, i'm a victim".
Shut the hell up. Stop blaming evil whites for the problems of the black community. You're killing each others, you have a "street culture" where success and education is shamed, as well as living with white people. And still, you manage to blame us for not succeeding? Why would anyone give you a free pass for anything just because you're born with more melanin? Does that make you superior?
I'm tired of that crap. I'm no more privileged than anyone else, I'm not rich, and I've struggled quite a lot, but I'm still not blaming other people for it. The little I have, I've worked for it.
Start doing the same.
Why in the world do I have to respond to this whiny piece of drivel?
You only proved my point. And again, you agree with everything that "White" privilege asserts, yet you claim it doesn't exist.
And look at that, you don't even think you are insane.
Amazing.
I proved nothing, because all you posted was a whine. Nothing else behind it. You're whining, again and again, everyday I see the same crap. Different person, same bullshit.
I'm not asking you to answer, because I know that all you can do is cry about being a "victim". Blacks struggling? Must be white people work! No way it's black people fault! And that's all there is.
You see an issue, and it's white people's fault. How to fix it? By asking white people to give stuff of course! Your take can be summed up in one line. And it's not even needed to sum it up, since it's the same whiny speech we can read almost every day here.
Repeating the same crap everyday doesn't make it true. It makes it boring, redundant, but certainly not true.
And what's your answer? "Nuh, I don't answer, you're insane". Quite an argumentation, for sure.
Of course you proved it. People don't understand racism. Racists never think they are racists. They simply think their racism is the conclusion of logic and facts. Here you are talking about "Black" people when I talk throughout the take about the experience of other non-"White" people.
All you are doing is posting jibberjabber.
But I just want to make one point painfully clear.
You draw racist conclusions, based upon racist fantasies, and you can be a judge, a police officer, a senator, etc. You can affect public policy, people's lives, etc. All with the insane nutty racist rants in your brain running full steam.
And you don't admit that, whether or not there is any truth to your nutty racist rants. . . you are "White" and that nutty racism is apart of the discussion.
And that is the very essence of privilege.
In fact you're reminding me of arabs people living in sensitive urban areas here. They claim we're "abandoning them" because we're "racists, and we don't care about arabs", because their place is all vandalized and dirty. So the government pays for the renovations, the buildings owners too, everything is fixed.
And 2 weeks later, they already ravaged it all. Broken, burned, tagged, pissed on, spitted on. And here they go again, crying, whining about how the "racist" government is abandoning them.
They also attack paramedics, cops, even doctors and store owners, then complain that none of them is coming back when they need it.
Everything you say could be turned against you, because it's so empty that in fact you could use it against a goat if you wanted.
"You're racist because you dare not agreeing with me"
Well no, I don't agree with you, because all you're saying is a big pile of crap. I won't say I'm a racist because you're so paranoid that any white not agreeing with you is an evil racist oppressor.
Rant as much as you like. Facts are facts. Just because you claim that the problem is white people doesn't make it true. You're just looking for a fake culprit because admitting the problem lies within the black community would hurt your feeling.
In the end, you're not fixing any problem, you're creating a bigger one. Instead of saying "We need to fix things", all you say is "THEY need to fix it for us by giving us more stuff".
Well keep crying. It works for now, but there is always a limit to how much people can accept to be insulted. And if you reach that limit, you won't like the result.
Dude, you are from France. Why are you even talking to me? You didn't even read the take. It is about American society?
Where do they get these guys?
If you're too stupid to read about other countries and understand stuff even when you're not concerned by it, well too bad.
But I can.
Well, what could I expect from you anyway? A take full of crap, no argumentation except "you're racist" without anything behind. Of course you can't understand that someone is able to know more than what happens in his own place only.
Dude, you are just off. I don't even know if you really from France.
But you are really a troll. I can't speak to the situation in France. I am not French. I am American. I know American history, culture, social norms, etc. What the French do is on them. And one thing is for certain. You will never find me critiquing a decision by France or by French society. Because I don't live there and I am not a citizen. And if your argument is that you apart of the supreme "White" race, then go to stormfront.
I don't believe in that garbage.
All you know is what you want to believe because it fits your constant victimization. What can I say, you don't know anything about France, but I know stuff about other countries. Guess I'm more open than you think.
That discussion is becoming boring. I told you that the problem lied within the black community, you're going on about some white supremacy bullshit on which is based your whole speech. You're talking about people being racists while all you do is calling names and never giving anything worthy of a read.
You have nothing to say, your "arguments" are as empty as your take. We can stop here. There is nothing interesting coming from you anymore, if something interesting came from you at some point.
No, you don't know anything about America. Stick to France. You posted some drivel about how good you treat Arabs over there. If you don't like Arabs, kick them all out of your nation. I don't give a care. It isn't for me to figure out what French people should or should not do. I just know when I fly over there next month, I am going to have a ball.
Going to Cafe Latin!
Other than that, we have nothing to talk about. You are ignorant of the American Experience and I have too many people here that I must respond to. I cannot educate you, I don't have the time.
Nor the knowledge or the open-mindedness, apparently.
Actually number 3 is wrong as for many years lately the Most attractive women in the world has been an Asian. Nana from after school was voted for like 2 years in a row and is still like number 3 or something like that. And other Asian women made it very high on the list as well a long with many black and Hispanic women. And not to mention V from BTS made most attractive man this year. And if we're being fair on those list most of the world has white people sadly. We're fucking everywhere and make up a ton if the world versus the smaller amount of other races minus Asians as they rake high on percentage as well. I'm not saying white privilege isn't real because it is. But some of what you said just isn't true
And when was that? If you look at the MIss Universe pageant, which I think you are referring to, it has maybe six Asian women winners. And that's if you include the Phillippines which hold three titles. I know many Asians who do not consider Filipinos to be Asian. In the U. S. they are sometimes referred to as "pacific islanders".
As for the rest of your post, I don't think we are in disagreement anyway.
Thanks.
No I'm referring to some list that happens every year that has the 100 top most beautiful women and attractive men in the world. I don't know who makes it though u can find it online or YouTube. I don't watch the miss universe thing or whatnot. They're definitely racist and have suck criteria
goodfullness.net/.../
These list
You the 100 top beautiful People's list?
I thought I posted that.
Did you read the "take"?
peopledotcom.files.wordpress.com/.../...435-20.jpg
Never heard of goodfullness. net. In America, People's Magazine is the one that is the most famous and the one that is the standard.
I've never read people's list. Just the one i mentioned
And if we're taking into consideration that people's magazine probably does stars in America and not worldwide like the list I mentioned. And most famous people in the US are white people
Did I mention that I was talking specifically about American society?
But if u r you have 2 take into consideration America is mostly white people. So that plays a huge role in what is perceived as the beauty or standard
I don't think you understood the take. Does "White" privilege exist? If it does, which I am pretty sure I prove, it must be navigated.
It isn't a good thing.
It isn't a bad thing.
But it is a real thing.
And did i not already day it's a real thing? Because pretty damn sure I said it was
I don't think there's white privilege but I do think that beautiful/ above average looking people get more special treatment. It's because the media tells us that to be beautiful is to look european and that it's the only form of beauty. I'm not trying to be racist here but because they're seen as beautiful, they get treated better.
But that is a form of "White" privilege. It is hard for non-"Whites" to look "White". Though many try.
www.etopical.com/.../...efore-and-After-Photos.jpg
@RolandCuthbert What's the point of that picture? Are you insinuating that that woman is trying to look like a white person simply because she lightens her skin?
Did it ever occur to you that lighter skin is desirable in many cultures regardless of white people? Did it ever occur to you that these cultures desired lighter skin because lighter skin meant they were wealthier and didn't have to spend time working in the sun?
I guess black people are privileged given white people in western countries are always trying to get crazy dark tans? Yeah?
SMH..
@Kkaos Did it ever occur to YOU that lighter skin being more desirable leads to whiteness being more desirable?
Some white people want to get tanned. Big deal. That doesn't negate white privilege, and if you think it does, you have a limited understanding of the topic.
@Kkaos Yes, I am insinuating that. Here at GaG, you have many non-"White" men who have come out with a stated preference for "White" women. That doesn't establish that "Whiteness" is valued in other cultures. And isn't perfectly logical for that to have an affect upon the men, women and children who are members of that culture?
I don't even understand how what you are arguing is even logical. Lighter skinned is valued. . . but not "Whiteness". The whole idea is absurd.
Sammy Sosa is looking good!
pmchollywoodlife.files.wordpress.com/.../...tr.jpg
@NoBullsh1t White people have a different skin tone to people of other races with lighter skin, typically. White people usually have more peach/red undertones.
"Some white people want to get tanned. Big deal." Big deal? So you use dark people wanting to look lighter as a justification for 'white privilege' yet, when white people do the exact opposite and want to look darker you say - 'big deal'..
Are you always this stupid or are you just having a bad day?
@Kkaos You can resort to name calling because your argument falls flat on its face.'
Its cool. I can take it.
:D
www.pri.org/.../why-white-skin-all-rage-asia
Again Roland, if you knew how to read English, you'd see that I wasn't even talking to you. So whether you can 'take it' or not is completely irrelevant.
And my point still stands. And that link you provided just dicusses what I've already said. It's traditional, it has nothing to do with white people.
You think you know all about Asians too now? LOL. You must know all about me, I'm half white and Asian myself. Ignorance is bliss isn't it?
@NoBullsh1t Okay, is it only our fault that your own people denigrate themselves and carry a self-defeatist attitude? We're not going around saying we're the most beautiful, nobody has to accept that as truth. Your own people are feeding these things to your people. Parents in other nations around the world show off their 'light' babies. Is it my fault that they do this? That they think it is the truth? The media does not need to be listened to. But when parents start telling their kids to wear sunscreen so they don't get "dark," that is a problem.
Black guys are more masculine and sexually desired and they do get special treatment by the ladies, they ooze confidence, and swagger.
@Kkaos There are some white people (mostly young) who want to get tanned, so yeah, that's not a big deal. In fact, there are plenty of white people who like the very pale skin they have. You, being 22, are probably not around them as often, as people in your age group think that tanned is "hot" or whatever. Which has nothing at all to do with white privilege, as I stated before.
I'm not "justifying" white privilege; it doesn't need justification. I was simply stating that lighter skin is almost universally desired in every culture. People of color are often encouraged or pressured to look white, "talk" white, "dress" white, "act" white...
And attacking me personally doesn't make your argument better either.
@DianaWest I'm not sure what you mean by "your own people" - it sounds as if you're confused. I have blonde hair and blue eyes - I'm about as white as they come.
@NoBullsh1t There are some black people, mostly young, who take skin lightening creams in order to look lighter. It's no big deal. - You know your point is baseless when I can use the exact same thing against you.
"People of color are often encouraged or pressured to look white, "talk" white, "dress" white, "act" white..."
1. "People of color' is an outdated, racist and factually incorrect term. Your use of it suggests your thinking is very backwards.
2. Provide some examples of this 'pressure' that exists. And how the fuck can you 'talk' white anyway. I didn't realize someone's skin color is correlated to how they talk. You literally make no sense whatsoever.
@Kkaos You fail to grasp the fundamentals of logic. If you could use the point against me, it MIGHT prove the point baseless - it depends on context - but you haven't used the point against me. The way you've used it just doesn't apply.
There's nothing racist about the phrase "people of color". It may be a dated term, which is entirely irrelevant.
Nothing you have said is remotely interesting to me, nor is it furthering the conversation. It's a waste of my time to continue with someone who does not argue in good faith.
@NoBullsh1t "You fail to grasp the fundamentals of logic" No, I don't. That's you. You've made a generic assumption about white people who tan and you've provided NO evidence for that assumption. I could just as easily make a generic assumption about black people who lighten their skin and provide no evidence. Rendering the whole thing baseless. There's some logic for you.
Your assertion that 'people of color' is not racist exposes your ignorance of history. The term 'people of color' was coined by racist white people in order to distinguish themselves from other other races, particularly 'mulattos'.
"Nothing you have said is remotely interesting to me" Cool? I'm not here to entertain you, I'm here to shut you down until you provide a valid argument, which you seem incapable of.
"It's a waste of my time to continue" Awesome, don't comment then.
@DianaWest White people wear sunscreen to not get skin cancer. They will tan in the sun instead of turning bright red and getting serious painful sunburn (blisters). It's part of the white-skinned white privilege, no natural sun protection.
@steevo I am not I am not sure what the other posters were discussing but. . ."White" people are not those who has supposed "White" skin. They are the people who identify primarily with being "White".
There was a lot of tangential discussion in this particular thread so I stayed out of it until now.
White privilege does not exist. The term is used by others as an excuse for why they do not succeed in life. We are all given the same opportunities both for education in the public school systems and in the workforce. We are all equal and fully capable of excelling in life, some just choose not to work hard and blame others. Using the term "white privilege" in itself is racist, the same as using derogatory terms when referring to others of a different race. I am white and have plenty of friends that are not. Some of my friends work hard and excel, while some do not and like to blame others for "holding them down". History has shown that colored folks can and do succeed as often as "white folks", if they put in the work.
You might want to read the take. You haven't addressed one single point I made.
Nailed it.
I think two big parts of people's reluctance to accept the idea of "white privilege" are:
1) The reluctance to consider the possibility that they didn't "do it all themselves" or "pull themselves up by their boostraps" etc. People don't like to admit they have advantages - especially ones they can't do anything about and were just born with.
2) They confuse "white privilege" with "white guilt" - and think that there's some inherent guilt trip that comes along with white privilege.
It is nothing more than acknowledging that people who are born white have certain inherent advantages in society (ESPECIALLY western society) BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE.
Yeah, the guilt thing is annoying. Because we have to deal with all of the anti-PC guilt over what happened with racism, slavery, Jim Crow, the civil rights movement, etc. And they accuse "White" liberals of this, that the hilarious thing.
So you can't just point out obvious "White" privilege because you have to navigate their feelings over it.
The thing is, they believe in the principles of "White" privilege. That "White" history is more important, "White" social norms must be recognized, "White" beauty standards, etc.
But create an awards show to show case African-American social norms, African-American art, theater, etc. and you become racist.
Weird, weird, weird, stuff.
I used to agree 100% with you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by1OgqQQANg&t=6163shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFqVNPwsLNo&t=1097sBut since then I've learned that the government has been the cause of nearly all inequality in this country. I cannot type the facts into this. I only recently removed myself from the left. So the overwhelming majority of information and links and articles that I have saved on my computer over the years are left stuff. I have papers I wrote for college, videos, all kinds of shit and it's all for the left.
Instead I'll link some videos. I know they are too long. Don't watch them, just as conservatives didn't listen to me when I was a liberal, I know liberals will not humor me now that I consider myself a libertarian. What's interesting is I still hold all of the same values I ever did. It's just now I see how the government has, for example, destroyed black people. Utterly fucking destroyed them. Where's my proof? Watch the video with Larry Elder.
Liberals think the media is destroying our country. That minorities are being disadvantaged by the things the media is showing us. Meanwhile the government has been destroying black and minority lives for decades and we just ignore it because we want to believe that conservatives are racist.
Don't even bother replying to me. I know you won't watch the videos. I'm just linking them in case somehow, some way, a liberal like me, who is seeking the truth, will watch and will understand.
I don't understand what this has to do with my take. I know Larry Elder. I know his views. I don't understand how that disproves "White" privilege. Even Larry Elder would agree that "Whites" have superior behaviors and beliefs and that's why "White" have higher levels of success.
Those beliefs are present whenever he renders a critique of "Black" people. If he were a judge, he would look at a "Black" offender in a more negative light. If he was a police officer, he would profile "Black" people more because of his beliefs about "Blacks" and crime.
And I want you to understand something. When I post, I try to make my own point. I may attach a video only as supporting evidence. But when I post about "White" privilege, I am not adopting someone else's view. I don't tell you to go read something by someone else.
No. Read my words. And debate that points I make, using facts and reason.
I don't really understand the dynamics in the USA, so I can't comment on that.
If you're insinuating that Asians have eyelid surgery to look European, you're just perpetuating the myth that only 'white people' can have double eyelids. It's simply not true. It exists in all races, yes, even among Asians.. and even some Koreans naturally have it.
Double eyelid masterrace
Well, this is what I have understood. I probably should not speak for all Asians. But this is what I learned about Korea from a man who is married to a Korean woman. I wonder if there is an Asian-American here at GaG who can talk more about what being Asian in America is like?
www.google.com/search
www.npr.org/.../the-many-stories-behind-the-double-eyelid-surgery
www.cnn.com/.../index.html
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...women-look-Western.html
Tbh, the history of plastic surgery in Korea and the cultural pressure there nowadays to be presentable/beautiful is very unique, but doesn't represent all of East Asia.
I'd like to know where this Korean plastic surgeon got that percentage from "While present in nearly all Caucasians, this extra fold occurs naturally in only 15% of East Asians." Is it his estimate or was there a study? Anyway, I think if anything this percentage may be true for Koreans, but not all East Asians. The 'Southerners' of East Asia usually have double eyelids.
One last thing, if the wife grew up in America Instead of Korea, it's also possible that she sees everything through the 'Western' lens.
Well, being in America, the Asians I know have organizations where they talk about these issues. I had several Asians in my race/cultural discussion group on meetup.
We met twice a month to talk about different topics on race and culture.
Sounds like they were raised abroad.
I don't think so. Have you ever heard of the ModelMinority? The site is gone now. But I was a member for many years.
Strangely enough, yellowworld. org is still around.
I just know the term, but I didn't know a site existed for it, nor the other site you mentioned.
Great Take!
I agree with William Shockleys quote and how different races were being underrepresented in the media. I also agree that we might subconsciously place individuals in groups and make assumptions.
Though my problem with the people yelling "White Privilege" is that some people assume that white people need to be punished for their underrepresentation. We need to stop grouping people, and respect this as a problem that lies within society, not at the hands of one particular race.
It has just become "name calling" at this point.
No, this is definitely not about punishment. And it is hard to talk about the subject when people are constantly interjecting their issues into what is a simple conversation. Does "White" privilege exist? Of course it does. And if you are a non-"White" you had better learn to navigate it.
It just the way it is.
Of course, I don't believe in Shockley's quote. If I did, I would not have created the "take". I would be in some kind of skin bleaching facility.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwgDLK7XQVQ
Notice how I never said "It didn't exist".
To get back on Shockleys quote: I disagree with him in the sense of colored individuals existing for solely that reason, but I agree with him when he says that we make these predictions about people.
The same subconsciously happens when you see someone with many tattoos for example. Despite not intending to, we judge them based on their appearance. That is until you really get to know them.
I didn't have any intentions of offending you. Nor do I want to put words in your mouth.
Oh, I didn't say you denied. I was simply restating my premise and what I thought was the solution to it. Which is, figure out how to deal with and overcome it. If a non-"White" person expects people will move it out of the way, they are being silly.
But I think we understand each other, except for the tattoo thing. A person can choose to have tattoos or to have them removed. We are born looking the way we are.
And if it were possible to change skin color and phenotype, you would have many non-"Whites" doing whatever they could to become "White".
www.seoultouchup.com/.../4-eye-surgery-korea.jpg
Ooops link to the story!
www.seoultouchup.com/eyelid-surgery-in-korea/
So does Africa have Afro-centric beauty standards and Black privilege? After all, why would the majority of their models and most beautiful lists consist of only black people? Don't they know that they are not the majority of the world's population, and that Asia is? It's just common sense, that a majority white country will have more products, and models reflecting it's general population. It's not a conspiracy, it's basic math and representation. Africa with majority black areas will have more afro-centric beauty standards. You know what? That's ok with me, I don't have to be a cry baby and type elaborate bullshit articles about black privilege. Just migrate to a black majority country, with your people. You'll be happier.
Of course Africa has its beauty standards. And most Africans have an appreciation for "African" beauty standards. I am talking about the U. S.
And right, it is common sense. I don't know why people claim that it does not exist. As for migration, why would I do that? I am happy in the U. S. I know about "White" privilege and decades ago, I went and did the things necessary to help me develop some pride in African-American beauty standards, culture, and history.
Can you comprehend that yet?
It's not white privilege. It's living in a country where the majority of the people happen to be a different race. You act like there were never any black people celebrated for their beauty, but that is a clear lie. They had African American actresses back in the 50's such as Dorothy Dandridge. If I lived in a majority black country, I wouldn't whine about "black" privilege. The majority of the population is black, and it's common sense that there are not as many white people who would be present in every day life or things advertised. Grow a backbone.
I'm sure textbooks in Africa reflect more African heritage and history. In China or India, it's the same thing. Again that's not privilege, it's just history that is relevant to the geographical region and the nation that currently stands. African history did not have a significant impact on the British colonies that became the United States. Just common sense really.
Of course it is “White” privilege. It isn’t Irish privilege right? In Ireland it could be called that. In France, we could call it French privilege. In Russia, we would call it Russian privilege.
Of course “Black” people have celebrated their beauty. If we didn’t have “Black” people who did that, I would not be here.
And don’t lie, there are “White” people who whine about “Black” privilege all the time. Even here in this country. They project their standards of “Whiteness” universally” and when “Black” people create a space to celebrate
“Black” social norms, they call “Blacks” racist. And any attempt to have inclusion in the mainstream is called PC.
As for the whole backbone thing. Get original and lose your guilt over “White” privilege. Maybe you don’t have anything to be ashamed of.
And point is. . . maybe none of us do. But go figure.
No such thing as white privilege. And I feel no guilt at all. Like you said, you don't want to leave here so it can't be that bad. White privilege is just made up arbitrary bullshit. White people can't find white features attractive? That really is one of your arguments to "white privilege. Euro-centric beauty standards and cultural norms, well no shit most of the inhabitants of this country came from Europe. I don't care if blacks have Ebony magazine, or like big booty women, or if black panther has an all black cast. People like what they like, and if some in the black community or elsewhere want to look white, then that is their problem and it has something to do with their minds. I accept who and what I am, and I certainly wouldn't guilt trip blacks and claim that Afro-centric beauty standards make some white women surgically get their lips fuller. Some people are happy with themselves, and others try to drastically change what they are.
You feel something. Because you claim that "White" privilege is just a function of society. Yet, here you are debating what?
Are you actually debating whether or not the average "White" person can and does find himself/herself attractive and the people of his/her culture attractive also?
Of course "White" people think they are attractive. Of course, their social norms, etc. have to be observed if non-"Whites" are to navigate this society.
Yet, here you are denying what you just said.
And it is beyond weird.
Beyond crazy.
But whatever.
You are making zero fucking sense. Why are we not allowed to have our own beauty standards and culture without you guys being cry babies about it? I get it, you don't have Euro-centric features, so that means whites can't find those features attractive because you naturally don't have them? They have Afro-centric beauty standards in Africa. Their statues, artwork, everything in their culture reflected their people and what they looked like. Europeans weren't really in Africa during most of it's history. It's not a big deal to me. So why is it you are offended because we have our models, beautiful people lists, etc? Obviously our statues, artwork, deities, myths, etc would contain people that looked more like us. I thought that would be common sense, but you call it white privilege and put a derogatory spin on it. Apparently we can't be beautiful, successful, or prosperous without it somehow being immoral in your eyes.
Dude you are making zero sense. You talk like a complete and total idiot. You are so filled with guilt and rage, you can't even read my posts. We agreed! Then you wet nutso freakshow.
You said that "White" privilege was just a function of society. I agreed. Then after that your head exploded.
So now you are accusing me of saying "Whites" can't have their own beauty standards, when it is evident "White" people have their own beauty standards. I illustrated that in my "take". It isn't even a debate. In fact, it isn't even a debate if they should have their own beauty standards.
The problem is that non-"White" social norms and beauty standards called racist by the anti-PC crowd. It isn't enough that "Whites" rank themselves number one. But if other groups don't reach the same conclusion, it is racist.
There is no white privilege. Period. No one said it is a function of society.
privilege: noun : a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.
No where did I list that we have any special rights or privileges because we are white. You are the one making that baseless accusation, and you have yet to list any special rights that we have that you do not. None of your points remotely mention any rights, it mentions some people trying to emulate European features, the history taught in American schools, a theoretical chant people do around a television set when crimes are committed, and the fact that you feel, keyword being feel, is that "whiteness" is somehow universally projected even though you have never experienced life in other parts of the world.
I won't even touch on your point number 6, because it is pure conjecture on your part.
Well again, of course there is. Of course "White" people have immunity to being profiled. According to many, many "White" people. A lot of them are right here in this take.
I don't have to mention any "special rights". How many times have you been pulled over because you had to prove you are an American citizen?
Are you afraid that after the next "terrorist" attack that you will be scrutinized more closely when you go to the store, get on an airplane, or attend a public gathering?
There are just common sense situations and many people on this take agree with principles of "White" privilege, chief among them is that "Whites" cannot be profiled for bad behaviors or negative beliefs.
Really, you have been pulled over just to prove you are an American citizen? Secondly, everyone goes through airport security. They don't single out anyone, people are randomly selected for further screenings. Yeah, I recall some blacks profiling us as "mass shooters" even though only a handful of whites in a country of 319 million committed such acts.
None of that proves such a thing as "white privilege." You just refuse to believe otherwise. For you it is a convenient life outlook.
Really? So "Black" people have stopped and searched you because you fit the description for a mass shooting?
And I never said I had to prove I am an "American". I have not been profiled for being an illegal immigrant, but you knew that before you made that stupid statement.
My profiling has to do with just being a criminal, the type who wears a suit and tie.
The funny thing is you seem ambivalent about profiling, since you claim you were stopped by "Blacks" for looking like a mass shooter, did you like it? Do you agree that "Whites" should be profiled? When you were standing there while "Blacks" were rifling through your briefcase and belonging in front of everyone. . . did it feel good?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAhXoZd_sAM&t=41s
? You prove "White" privilege with every single post.
Not stopped by police, but yes when Dylan Roof shot up that church I got a few looks in a predominately black church, even though it was some friends who brought me there. And Again, doesn't prove white "privilege." When I went to a Jamaican club, the bouncer was excessively thorough on my pat down as well, versus my friend who was of Jamaican ancestry.
www.latimes.com/.../...shooter-20170929-story.html
Why did this mass shooter not receive the same attention as Dylann Roof?
You really need to think about what you are arguing. Are you saying it is okay to profile or not? So was it cool that "Black" people look at you suspiciously because you came to a "Black" church?
This is what has happened with supposed discussions about race which are actually discussions about culture. Because there is so much avoidance, pain and guilt around the conversation, when we to try to talk about it strange leaps in logic occur.
Maybe racism is a bad thing. No matter who does it.
Just saying.
But if you are going to defend it. . . then defend everyone's right to be racist.
Really? Didn't Dylan Roof kill nine people.
I mean were you similarly concerned that this story got little coverage?
www.theroot.com/md-man-accused-of-murder-traveled-to-new-york-city-to-1793534495
It is incredible that your definition of privilege is that a "Black" man can kill someone "White" and not have a big media story about the murder. As though every time a "White" person kills a "Black" person everyone knows. And it is even stranger that privilege isn't defined as not having the stigma of criminality hovering over you simply because you are "Black".
I guess my point in all of that is that it's a matter of perspective. I'm not defending racism.. You act like whites never face any scrutiny, profiling, or negativity in life. You stated that we have "white privilege," and that we don't face any types of distrust or adversity, but we do. High profile murders such as the Dylan roof murders fuel that tension. I was just giving some small examples that yes, when evil things happen we are not immune to other races looking down on us or treating us with suspicion.
I could just be in denial. Maybe you guys do face more suspicion on a daily basis. I didn't look at it in that way.
You are not reading.
Do you think "White" people should face that negative scrutiny? It is funny, no one is answering that question.
I submit through this take no one likes to be negatively profiled. Not even "White" people. So why pretend that it is a good thing? Why get angry that people recognize it and do what they can to cope with it?
I cannot understand that. Can you help me understand that?
www.huffingtonpost.com/.../gabrielle-union-speaks-out-the-terrifying-reality-of-raising-black-sons-in-america_us_59e7641ce4b08f9f9edc0c46
"Union talked about the “panic” and “numbness” she felt after finding out via Snapchat that her sons were participating in a game referred to as the “drive-by dunk challenge,” where kids drive through the neighborhood and dunk in any basketball hoop they passed.
It seems innocent enough, but Union was worried about Florida’s open-carry and “stand your ground” gun laws; "
But you have to understand.
It is okay to be ignorant. I was ignorant of issues with Latinos, Asians, Arabs, etc. and I am still largely ignorant of the "White" one in this regard. But I can't find many "White" people who will talk about that experience. And I don't understand.
If we are all just regular human beings. None of us is more important than another, all of us deserve equal access to opportunity and justice. . .
why are we arguing about whether or not profiling is wrong. . .
Regardless of who is profiled?
It's ok, I see where you are coming from now.
i.pinimg.com/.../...b986ec304299d1b2a0cd2443aa.jpg
And I got a recommendation for you!
Go see "A Quiet Place". It is awesome!!!
1. Did not ever happen with me but you could argue it is because whites are the minority here.
2. Often verbally fight over many social norms that I disagree with. Thankfully I'm very reclusive. If you wish to provide specific examples though that'd be better.
3. Yeah if we pull out the OkCupid statistics white people are generally sexually looked favorably upon.
4. I could mention that media is primarily left wing, in other words contributing to "white guilt". Ironically the left is also the most racist towards others as well.
5. I'm against (legal) racial profiling. Although statistics are statistics and I do base many of my beliefs off of them.
6. If someone doesn't want to be a member of their ethnic group then that sounds like a personal problem to me. You also bring "culture" into it and as long as we both have American culture then I don't see why you wouldn't be proud to be a member of the best nation on the planet. Excessive worrying means they don't have enough patriotism. The problem isn't enough nationalism.
7. So much generalization.
It doesn't exist.
1. Minority where? I am in America.
2. I gave examples. Attractiveness is just one. Education is another. Please read the take.
3. Right.
4. I can't even understand that. Anti-PCdom condemns "White" liberals for spreading "White" guilt yet at the same time, the standards for "White" social norms is enforced by the Hollywood elite. Maybe it is not possible for something to be two things at once.
5. Right, you believe you are totally objective and rational when non-"Whites" are profiled. The debate about statistics does not matter. It only matters what you believe.
6. You got lost here. Maybe you need to go back and figure out do you accept that "White" people are a group, a race, a culture or whatever. I will wait for you.
7. How is it generalizing? You agree with the conclusions about profiling, statistics, attractiveness, etc?
1. As am I but in my city whites are under 10%.
2. You listed attractiveness and sure there are statistics for that one. However, minorities have a huge advantage when it comes to affording education. I did manage to force myself to read this yes.
3. As you mentioned in 2.
4. I was referring to the left spreading lies about white people in an attempt to make them feel guilty while at the same time supporting racist policies like abortion and welfare.
5. I said I am against using racial profiling for legal matters. Even though statistics could back up racial profiling being more efficient.
6. Here is the misunderstanding. It's not about white people it's about nationality. When I look at people I of course see their skin color, hair color, eye color, height etc. but it's not about that. It's about whether they're Americans or not. If someone who is black for example feels insecure because they're black I believe that they have a very serious lack of patriotism.
(Still 6.) To draw it out further I don't care what white even is. Trying to determine what is "white" is incredibly difficult and pointless. While determining if someone is a U. S. citizen actually matters and is easier to do.
7. Saying that all anti-PC people agree with fantasy profiling. Saying they all lack diversity in their every day lives. Saying they all think diversity in thought, culture, traditions, norms, etc. is a PC conspiracy when the left is the ones that keep censoring right wing trains of thought.
are the ones.*
1. And? I am talking about American society. We all watch the same television shows. The same news shows. We all get the same media imagery, etc.
2. Well, you didn't seem to know about some things I posted. It is funny, you actually use the term minority, yet you don't even acknowledge you just projected privilege. As for educational advantage, what are you talking about? Here is my example.
We are often told by the anti-PC crowd about the "modelminority". So what we should see is an overrepresentation of Asians as CEOs and in corporate leadership positions.
hbr.org/.../why-arent-there-more-asian-americans-in-leadership-positions
4. Right, you feel these are "lies". Yet what ever is "spread" about the particular non-"White" group on the chopping block for the day is only objective truth. I guess you may not be sure of what the word "privilege" means.
"a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people."
5. Right. I noted that. I can't think of a single debate about race, "White" privilege, etc. where statistics was not mentioned.
6. I am not here to talk about your personal beliefs. Indeed, if people only focused on the individual and only on a person's personal beliefs, we would not even be having this conversation. But this is not the world we live in.
And the thing that is funny, I have not claimed it was good or bad. But it is a fact of life.
So it is not true? How can you be anti-PC and be supportive of Multiculturalism? And please understand, I am certain my definition of diversity is probably much different than your own.
The funny thing about the anti-PC crowd is that though their philosophy is all about stereotyping and profiling, they don't like being profiled or stereotyped.
"I was referring to the left spreading lies about white people in an attempt to make them feel guilty while at the same time supporting racist policies like abortion and welfare."
It is just a weird conversation to have, when you can't even own the words you say.
1. You said "All schools, even those where your people/children are not a majority, need to focus on the history that supremely concerned with and glorifies what you have deemed "your people"."
White people were not glorified. I said you can argue it's because my teachers were all hispanic but it seems like you wanted to just change the argument entirely.
2. Your entire post is about something that doesn't exist and you're saying I don't know about it yet you make statements that provide little detail. Don't pretend that non-whites don't get grants just for not being white. What statement are you trying to make with Asians? I hope this isn't more assuming all Anti-PC people believe this or that again.
4 & 5. As I said before DESPITE statistics supporting racial profiling I am against it. As this is a free country you are of course allowed to believe whatever you want. I personally believe statistics when a multitude of sources say something, plus Pew Research Center, the government, or both. If you wish to discuss certain statistics that you believe are untrue I'm all for it. Science/Statistics may not be perfect 100% of the time but it's all we have and a rational person would believe evidence most of the time.
6. You asked me what white was and previously implied non-whites were not comfortable with their own skin. I explained how I cannot define white and why I do not need to. I also provided what I believe to be the solution to non-whites being uncomfortable.
The funny thing is that unfairness can occur to whites and especially when they're mistreated as the minority no one seems to care.
Correct, the majority of what you say are based on lies. "Fantasy profiling" is based on actual statistics like how the "fantasy theory of gravity" is based on actual scientific study. However, your wide generalizations and lack of details make it hard to pin down what you believe these are and I believe you do this on purpose to compensate for your weak argument. Yes multiculturalism will be different to us so if you want a yes or no I'm going to make you actually be specific about something for once.
I like how you generalize in an attempt to shame me for generalizing when I'm actually not generalizing and then have the audacity to act as if I should be ashamed of what I've said.
I'm starting to wonder if you're just trolling or if you're serious at this point. In either case I will never turn down talking about this issue it involves lying about me. That makes it personal.
1. I am sure from your position, it is only “truth-telling”. I had “White” and “Black” teachers by the way. And I learned nothing meaningful about the African, Asian and Latin history until I was in college. Indeed most of my education about history outside of the Europe came after college. When a history teacher tells you that is only because Europe is the most important history to study, that is “glorifying” to me. I doubt you would claim something different it someone told you something similarly about African history.
2. And don’t pretend that non-“Whites” do not have to deal with the stigma or not working hard simply because they are not “White”. The anti-PC crowd believes that non-“Whites” especially “Blacks” are given all that they have. You guys pretend that the only reason why “Whites” are successful is because of hard work and everyone else is only in the equation because of your supposed tax dollars.
Sorry, I won’t let you get away with that. The point is you believe the statistics support your conclusions. I don’t know if you believe in race or not at this point. It is hard to tell.
But the point is from the standpoint of “White” privilege, this is classic. Your assertions do not arise from bias in your opinion. It is a logical, reasonable, objective assertion that profiling is supported by “statistics”. I am not here to argue statistics. I know have been in too many conversations about race to argue with a guy clinging to statistics to know the truth about the human experience. The statisticians of raciology are beyond fact, logic or reason and I won't question your beliefs. Faith is a powerful thing.
But again, that’s the point. You can discriminate, but it is different when you experience it. Right? Because there isn’t a logical, objective, or rational reason for discriminating against “Whites”. Isn’t that your assertion?
Its weird that you don’t admit that simple fact of your experience.
Discrimination against non-“Whites” is a logical conclusion that you have reached. But discrimination against “Whites” is a bad, bad thing. It is biased and a product of subjective thinking. It isn’t based upon fact or logic. And non-“Whites” should care deeply about your concerns.
How am I hard to pin down? I posted this “take” with only one goal, to show the reality of “White” privilege. Now you can talk about anything you wish. I will engage you when you try to disprove my assertions.
You already know I am not “trolling”. But I am wondering if you are.
The premise is simple. “White” privilege exists. And the anti-PC crowd proves it every single time they tell us about how some groups are better than others based upon their statistics, their racist fantasies and their nonsense.
Good day.
1. My schooling as horrible as it was in quality was very different from yours. My history was state history, country history, & then world history which focused mainly on the middle east, india, china, 12 or so major religions, & then only brought up Europe in the WW1 & WW2 segment. Philispohers/Scientists were also mentioned and they were usually European/Asian but that's not favortism they were what they were.
2. My point is that minorities are given so much that for racism to actually cost you thousands and thousand of dollars is ridiculous. There is a very simple way to ensure no one ever accuses another black person of making it from their privilege again. Stop forcing businesses to hire based on race and stop giving out grants based on race. It's that simple because you don't see whites getting all of these handouts based on their race.
If a statistic states something, it's a fact no conclusion is needed. If you're not going to accept facts why do you expect people to accept your opinions? Then you were saying something along the lines of "Yeah there's 2+2 and you simply drew the conclusion that it's 4." as if you're trying to make it sound like it's fake. Yeah you could say I believe in race but most people are already mixed. Like if you ask me "Are you white?" I'm going to say "Yes." because I look at myself and I have white skin. I'm not fully "white" but it doesn't matter.
You say you're not here to argue statistics and then bring up faith. Statistics are factual. I operate factually. You cannot seem to provide evidence for white privilege though so you seem to operate more in a faith based manner. This is like an atheist arguing with a very religious person. The argument will not go anywhere as both cannot even agree on the basics.
But again, I seem to have to explain this and I'll be using more examples. Black people commit violent crimes at vastly higher rates compared to other races BUT most black people are innocent therefore there should not be racial profiling against all blacks. White people are the second most prosperous race in the U. S. BUT most white people still are not rich therefore you should not assign privilege to all whites.
Now that we've covered how there is no proof of white privilege or as you said "It isn’t based upon fact or logic." tell me why I should take it on faith?
You're hard to pin down because you jump from one generalization to another with no evidence or data. Instead, I'd suggest doing this...
Since we already know it's about white privilege.
1. Make a specific point about a key point.
2. *Insert data/research/statistics*
3. Flesh everything out more, the key point, the data, even inserting opinions is ok, but too many opinions/generalizations make an awful argument.
Alright, I know you're probably going to respond to all of this first. After you're doing replying how about we go over every single point one by one and not move onto another topic until that number is finished. The only condition is that you have to acknowledge factual data and not say "facts don't matter" or something along those lines. I only say that because if can't even establish that much then this is a giant waste of time for everyone.
done replying*
Your point that "White" people in general know mostly only about Middle Eastern, Indian, Chinese history? Really? I am just saying that isn't true. If that was your experience, that is abnormal. I am a "Black" man who knows more about King Henry VII, than I know about famous person in African history. I know more about a fat drunk King who regularly had his wives executed than any one in African history because of my schooling.
I don't force businesses to hire based on race. If you want to end AA, just keep voting Republican. They don't like AA. What do you want me to do about it? But to pretend that merit based hiring was ever a thing in America is just living in fantasy. You already talk about "statistics" and the justification for profiling people based upon that. So I already am pretty sure you wouldn't hire people based upon "merit". Its like you don't even read what you type.
I don't have time to deal with your confusion about who you are. If you believe you ain't "White", you ain't "White". If you believe you are "White", then you are "White". It has nothing to do with your genetic makeup. I am absolutely certain I have European heritage. As almost every African-American. But we are still "Black" people.
Obviously, you have much invested in this conversation. Even though you have beliefs about "Blacks" and crime. And even though you think profiling is justified because of your interpretation. You deny that in itself create privilege.
You think your beliefs are only an objective rational conclusion about the limited capabilities or negative behavior of "Black" people. Many people of course share your view. And of course, that constitutes "White" privilege. And I submit, it does not just stop with "Black" folks.
cont'd
If you have strong believe in race and in this mythology of racial behaviors/beliefs, then you have stereotypes in your head of other groups you consider to be non-"White". They manifest, when convenient. Just like with Bassem here below;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvmnTwWtW5I&t=77s
Again, your premise is nonsensical. I do not jump around. I made a simple statment and gave a simple argument. You have interjected everything from your confusion about being "White", statistics about "Black" crime, etc.
You already stated that you believe the conclusions of profiling. But you don't agree with it. That of course, is nonsensical. If I were to have a son, I would have to warn him about people like you. I would have to tell him that there are people who will never know the special unique person that he is. That some people can only know him through stats and racist stereotypes of supposed negative behaviors.
And that his challenge will be to navigate around those people and knock down any barriers they erect for him.
You will never have that talk with your son, if you have one. You don't even think "White" people can be stereotyped or profiled, even if you believe other groups can be.
And I don't need to insert research that you would reject.
cont'd
You believe in something that is already scientifically disproven.
So when it comes to fantasy. . . who is living in a make-believe world?
Bye!
Alright we will continue the paragraphs since you do not wish to dissect your opinions one by one.
"All schools, even those where your people/children are not a majority," is why I said that. There were a couple of white people in my classes and that was it. There were a couple of black people too including the Principal but that was it. I told you my experience and that's what happened. Yours sounds abnormal to me because we never even learned about King Henry.
No, you don't force them to hire based on race but someone who not only believes in the white privilege myth but is attempting to spread it doesn't sound like they're trying to help the situation. Yes, I do vote republican/libertarian as they don't usually support racist policies like the Democrats do. You use the word "justification" very loosely as you know I oppose racial profiling. You're "pretty sure" I'm not going to hire people based on merit? As a capitalist that has to be one of the most ridiculous accusations I've-
ever had made against me. Do you realize how counter-productive it is to higher based on race/sexuality/gender etc? No sensible person is going to higher some retarded person just so they punish someone with that gender/race/sexuality that they don't like. We just want to make money! I'm extremely against gay culture but if some gay person is more efficient then those straight people have to go. It's 100% merit based for maximum profit. To pretend otherwise is when you enter fantasy land.
I have zero confusion about who I am, I'm an American. So according to your logical if I believe I'm an attack helicopter I'm an attack helicopter? Again, you use justified loosely. I think it being just or unjust matters much more. You seem to project such hate against me for stating facts rather than doing something productive like trying to figure out why things are the way that they are.
There is no evidence to suggest that black people have any limited capabilities. There are statistics that show disproportionate crime rates. Black people are poorer on average. This results in more crime. It's incredibly basic to comprehend.
More telling me what I believe...
Let me tell you something that I actually believe. If you were actually open to discussion you'd pick one point at a time instead of jumping around when you lose ground.
Nonsense. America was a capitalist state from its inception. Yet it created racist institutions, created the religion of race and racism, and all the mythology that goes with it for the exact purposes of keeping resources from certain groups and control over others.
A capitalist is merely a human and every human has their biases and beliefs. This society was built upon the mythology of race, evident by your beliefs decades after it was scientifically disproven. If this supposed capitalistic society was so concerned for profit, we would open immigration to all Asians and let them build the technological and business infrastructure for this nation. Because they excel at the skills we claim are critical for success. They would be overrepresented in our corporate leadership and engineering positions.
I work in the tech field and the best engineers I know and have employed are Indian.
Again absolute nonsense. I have picked up talent because people thought "Indians were thieves". Or that "Arabs were terrorists". I have employed and worked with the rainbow. And many people (not all of them "White") have superstitious beliefs. Its weird you don't even acknowledge your own superstitions with regards to race and the weird science of racial behaviors. It is mythology, not scientific, not factual. . . yet you believe steadfastly in this fantasy.
And I show in my take, that the prevailing reason for creating race was for defining the capacities and talents of the different supposed races. Did you read the take? Did you read the quote from Dr. William Shockley?
You believe in a superstition that was created to categorize and rank people. You believe it tells you something about a person. Their race is something vital to your assessment. Yet, you claim it does not figure into your ability to judge their abilities. Hogwash.
Wait, there is no evidence that "Black" people have limited capabilities, yet there is evidence they commit more crime?
You are so confused. And you are so young. Young sir. You need to create your own philosophy of life. Trying to simply adapt what you have heard will screw you up.
Race is not real. I am "Black" which means African-American. I already know the capacity of my people. I work with them. I was born to "Black" parents. I have "Black" friends, I grew up with, worshipped with "Black" people.
You have run this conversation so far afield of what the premise was. Then you say I am jumping around.
The premise is simple, it is "White" privilege. And you prove the premise, almost every single time you post.
Maybe you need to figure out what you want to talk about. You have the ability to create your own take. But if you don't have the ability to talk about the subject, that is not my problem.
I'm going to start quoting you very specifically because if you think even half of what you say makes sense you're so far off.
" America was a capitalist state from its inception. Yet it created racist institutions, created the religion of race and racism, and all the mythology that goes with it for the exact purposes of keeping resources from certain groups and control over others."
Sure, it's been fairly capitalistic. The only way this would make sense is if you believe everyone today is extremely racist and would not hire based on merit and would instead judge on race. If you truly believe this you're brainwashed and there's no hope for you. Provide data showing business owners are racists.
"If this supposed capitalistic society was so concerned for profit, we would open immigration to all Asians and let them build the technological and business infrastructure for this nation Because they excel at the skills we claim are critical for success. They would be overrepresented in our corporate leadership and engineering positions."
First of all assuming all Asians are good with technology is racist. Secondly, Asians are free to choose whatever jobs they desire within the United States. Third, Asians make $19,000 more on average than white people in the U. S. I'd say Asians are on average doing a really good job and don't need you dictating what they should or should not go into.
"Its weird you don't even acknowledge your own superstitions with regards to race and the weird science of racial behaviors."
If a report comes out and says there's more women than men in the U. S. guess what? It means what it means. If a study comes out that say relatively more people are attracted to Asians and white people. It means what it means If a study comes out that says black people relatively commit more crimes. It means exactly what it means. Facts do not care about your feelings. You cannot cherry pick and claim to be a reasonable person. You can call facts and data mythology, fantasy, and not scientific if you want. That still is literally science. I have never had anyone EVER argue that evidence is unscientific. The very thing science relies on.
"And I show in my take, that the prevailing reason for creating race was for defining the capacities and talents of the different supposed races. Did you read the take? Did you read the quote from Dr. William Shockley?"
I wanted to go over your take point by point and destroy it point by point. But, you did not seem willing to do that because if you are limited to a single topic you will not be able to form a very long response because you have absolutely no evidence and purely opinions.
"You believe in a superstition that was created to categorize and rank people. You believe it tells you something about a person. Their race is something vital to your assessment. Yet, you claim it does not figure into your ability to judge their abilities. Hogwash."
Hogwash! How can there be someone who believes in science, is right wing, AND ISN'T RACIST? HOW COULD IT BE POSSIBLE? HE MUST BE RACIST! That is essentially what you're saying there. I assure you I actually do exist.
"Wait, there is no evidence that "Black" people have limited capabilities, yet there is evidence they commit more crime?"
Correct, I have never seen any scientific evidence to ever suggest that black people could not do everything a white or Asian or hispanic person could. What would hold them back? I request scientific evidence if you disagree.
"You are so confused. And you are so young. Young sir. You need to create your own philosophy of life. Trying to simply adapt what you have heard will screw you up."
There are very few topics of which I have no opinion and to say I am "confused" about them is a stretch at best. Don't dare try playing the age card. I have my philosophies already hammered out. It seems you do as well but you don't back them up with studies, data, facts etc. That bothers me but you have every right to still believe in all of that.
"Race is not real. I am "Black" which means African-American."
I do not like the term "African-American" just as I do not like the term "European-American". I see that as belittling the U. S. and putting senseless stock in some other inferior location. We should be proud to be Americans. If someone looks white call'em white if someone looks black call'em black. If someone looks white to me and black to you I'll call'em white and you can call them black. All that matters is that they're American.
"I already know the capacity of my people."
?
"You have run this conversation so far afield of what the premise was. Then you say I am jumping around."
You replied to me disproving your arguments with generalizations. I then proposed later on to go over them one by one. You refused to even acknowledge that proposal to do so.
"The premise is simple, it is "White" privilege. And you prove the premise, almost every single time you post."
You post generalizaitons and opinions. I give you statistics. I have evidence and you do not. I have disproved white privilege and you've proven you disregard evidence in favor of what you want to believe. I wish a multitude of people read our responses. I'm confident they would not share your confidence unless they already believed in the white privilege myth.
"Maybe you need to figure out what you want to talk about. You have the ability to create your own take. But if you don't have the ability to talk about the subject, that is not my problem. "
This is the difference. You are TALKING about it. I am DISPROVING it. You're talking about it like you're at a coffee shop. I'm destroying it like I'm in a debate club. I want you to actually pull out some proof instead of justifying it through generalizations and opinions. This is why I thought you were just trolling.
What in the world?
So in order for "White" privilege to exist, every single person in America must believe in racism?
Uhm. . . that's insane.
I know hundreds of "White" people who do not believe in race, they do not believe in racism. They do not judge people by race nor do they believe anything about racial statisics.
In fact, the largest group of Anthropologists in the world, you know. . . the scientists who disproved "race", is mostly comprised of "White" people.
I don't think you are even attempting to be logical any longer.
You don't own the mythological "White" race. You can lay claim to a small subset of culture where people think the same as you. But this supposed racial connection. . .
it isn't real.
And that is based upon scientific fact.
It is amazing the things that are racist to you and things that are not. Assuming that Asians are all smart, which of course is an assumption I did not make, is racist. But saying that "Blacks" commit more crime is not.
I don't even believe in a concept called the "Yellow Race" or the Monogloid people. That's your belief system. So own your words.
I am simply taking your beliefs and applying it using your logic.
If I am a believer in race and I claim that one can make assessments of an entire race of people, what would I do if I ran a tech or engineering firm.
And I let you do this to me again. What does this have to do with my premise?
"White" privilege.
Wait. . . you have seen scientific evidence?
:D
Uhm. . . sir, I had you all wrong.
Please show me the scientific evidence supporting your conclusion that the "Black" race exists?
And yes you are thoroughly confused.
So before I answer your eight different posts about eight different things that have nothing to do with my take.
Show me the scientific research that proves your theory of race.
Can you explain why should your opinion of what I call myself should matter to me? I don't really care what you the name for my identity does or does not do. You think I am a member of a "race" and that can help you understand something about me. To me that is belittling me.
And this is the source of your confusion. You use the term race to claim you are only referring to a person's skin color. Which means you are only fooling yourself. Because when you talk about "races" you will always refer to how people behave or what people believe.
Then there is the obvious. Is my skin "Black"? Can you see my skin is "Black" by looking at this page that is open in your web browser?
It isn't even a sane thought.
Your insistence that people identify in a way you demand is meaningless and your concept of race again. . . was scientifically disproven. If you know of a scientific study proving it, please find it.
You do not have evidence. You don't even have science on your side. You cling to mythology that is scientifically disproven. Then you claim I have the delusion.
The delusion is race and that race means anything outside of your brain.
In your racial world that nonsense of claiming you only are denoting skin color, but you need to track statistics on these people to understand how they behave or what they believe.
I told you I was African-American. So, tell me my skin color.
That is insane.
Alexis Belon. Do you know her? She is about your age.
And. . .
She is a "Black" woman. She is African-American.
http://alexisbelon.com/
alexisbelon.com/.../...37_401563985393308071_n.jpg
"So in order for "White" privilege to exist, every single person in America must believe in racism?
Uhm. . . that's insane."
What is insane is for you to insinuate that business owners TODAY are so racist that they would not hire based on merit and then refuse to provide any evidence for this claim WHEN ASKED FOR IT. Just as you have with every other unscientific opinion that you have.
"I don't think you are even attempting to be logical any longer."
You have zero proof but make a lot of claims. Good joke.
"You don't own the mythological "White" race. You can lay claim to a small subset of culture where people think the same as you. But this supposed racial connection. . .
it isn't real.
And that is based upon scientific fact."
I am white. I look white. I don't care if you consider that a race or not, it doesn't even matter if it is a race or not. I never said white people think the same as myself. We're all individuals not some collective hive.
"It is amazing the things that are racist to you and things that are not. Assuming that Asians are all smart, which of course is an assumption I did not make, is racist. But saying that "Blacks" commit more crime is not."
I did not accuse you of saying all Asians are smart. I said "First of all assuming all Asians are good with technology is racist." because you said "If this supposed capitalistic society was so concerned for profit, we would open immigration to all Asians and let them build the technological and business infrastructure for this nation. Because they excel at the skills we claim are critical for success." I then mentioned how Asians are on average the richest in the U. S. so I don't think they should be taking advice from you.
"I am simply taking your beliefs and applying it using your logic."
You haven't referenced a SINGLE study or statistic except some obscure thing about how you believe Asians should be in more CEO positions. I believe in studies and statistics. How can you say that when everything you spout (including about what you think I believe) is NEVER backed up with them?
"If I am a believer in race and I claim that one can make assessments of an entire race of people, what would I do if I ran a tech or engineering firm.
And I let you do this to me again. What does this have to do with my premise?"
Since you're "pretty sure" I won't hire people on merit I'll use myself as an example. There's been studies to show that the majority of geniuses are men. Do you think I'm only going to hire men and hope I strike gold with a genius? Give me a SINGLE reason why I shouldn't hire women or black people or hispanics. You can't do it. You can only make some illogical argument and then attempt to assign-
-it to me as if I believe it. I believe that's called a strawman.
My counter-argument was all of the benefits non-whites get. You claimed business owners would not hire based on merit. I requested evidence which you did not provide. Here we are now. Throughout this I've mentioned several times we go over it point by point and you still dismiss it because you know you will lose horribly.
"Wait. . . you have seen scientific evidence?"
ucr.fbi.gov/.../table-43
"And yes you are thoroughly confused.
So before I answer your eight different posts about eight different things that have nothing to do with my take.
Show me the scientific research that proves your theory of race."
Again, I'd love to destroy your MyTake one point at a time if you'd agree to do it that way.
That depends on what your definition of race is. According to the internet it is: "A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution". Two very defined words are ancestry and color. For example, my ancestry is Irish, Dutch, German, French, British, Scandanavian, & Native American. My color is white. However, in the previous study from the FBI it states white as a race. Assume it were not a race. White would still be white. The study would still be accurate. Whether someone refers to it as a race is irrelevant as it being a race or not would not change the amount of melanin in ones skin.
"Can you explain why should your opinion of what I call myself should matter to me? I don't really care what you the name for my identity does or does not do. You think I am a member of a "race" and that can help you understand something about me. To me that is belittling me."
What I think is that you've been exposed to some odd stuff and now you're saying what you've heard and use off the wall definitions. As your ideological mortal enemy aka "Anti-PC" person you should know I'd never try to regulate your speech and that it was my opinion. I do throw those out once every several days.
"And this is the source of your confusion. You use the term race to claim you are only referring to a person's skin color. Which means you are only fooling yourself. Because when you talk about "races" you will always refer to how people behave or what people believe."
Correct, if someone said skin color I'd say sure. If someone said ancestry I'd say sure too. Incorrect, I would refer to the-
-statistic of which they're talking about and then to automatically assume someone is something is racist so it would not be done. I can't believe I'm having to explain this to an American.
"Then there is the obvious. Is my skin "Black"? Can you see my skin is "Black" by looking at this page that is open in your web browser?
It isn't even a sane thought."
I don't see why I'd need to or want to, nor have I ever claimed I could tell through the internet. Talk about not having anything to do with the argument. Did you copy/paste this to the wrong place?
"Your insistence that people identify in a way you demand"
Never demanded. I said I didn't like it since it belittles the U. S. If you remember I also said a lack of nationalism is partly what is responsible for certain peoples insecurity.
"your concept of race again. . . was scientifically disproven. If you know of a scientific study proving it, please find it."
I've never said any definite answers of what race was. But, black does not exist? White does not exist? This is essentially what is happening right now. www.youtube.com/watch
"You do not have evidence. You don't even have science on your side. You cling to mythology that is scientifically disproven. Then you claim I have the delusion."
Provide evidence showing that white people and black people look the same. Show me scientific evidence that melanin doesn't matter and we all look the same color.
"In your racial world that nonsense of claiming you only are denoting skin color, but you need to track statistics on these people to understand how they behave or what they believe."
Excuse me if ending crime and poverty by recognizing their association with each other is getting in the way of your white privilege myth crap.
"I told you I was African-American. So, tell me my skin color.
That is insane.
Alexis Belon. Do you know her? She is about your age.
And. . .
She is a "Black" woman. She is African-American."
Welcome to one of my supporting reasons for being against things like police racial profiling. It depends what you mean when you say "African-American". Are you trying to say your color is black as most Africans are black? Are you trying to say you have African ancestry? Are you trying to say you were born in Africa and then moved to the United States? The only African-American I had in my family was white, blonde, and had blue eyes. Yet, I have a ton of black people in my family and one of them are African-American. As most of my friends are hispanic some of them were as white as I was but most of them were brownish. Luckily in the study that I linked it does say black/african American so I believe it means African ancestry. Which is linked to poverty. Which is linked to crime. This is easy
Haha! Hilarious.
If you want to play this ridiculous game. Yes sir the color black exists. My laptop is the color black. My skin color is a different color. The color white also exists. If you go outside right now and look up, you will may see a cloud. They are usually white.
Well, what color you claim to look like is on you. I have never seen a person who was literally white. They may exist. There could be some rare skin condition where a person is literally the color white. I have never researched such diseases however.
My ex is a geneticist. A microbiologist to be accurate. I could contact her and ask. If anyone would know. She would.
That said, I have never seen a person who was literally the color black. Though most would say that black is merely the absence of all color. That could be an interesting discussion if you wish to have it.
As for the tracking of crime statistics, since this your favorite subject to keep coming back to. We can take a tangent, I guess. But I will remind you my take is about "White" privilege.
You seem to think there is some site that tracks stats on race and crime. Can you please cite your source and statistics.
Then perhaps, we can get back to a conversation about "White" privilege, if you are able to have such a conversation.
I am going to do this only for brief moment. After this, I will have to refer you to books written by cultural anthropologists. Because I can't teach you the science of human differences. You have to take initiative and go to the library and do research.
From the minute I posted my take until this last post. The words "White" and "Black" were in quotes. I guess you never noticed it. But long ago, when I learned that race was not real, I realized that people were not actually these two colors. People were referring to something they believed to be true about the way these two groups behaved or what these two groups believed. Later as I became educated about the truth about human differences, I understood that the real determining factor was culture or how humans group identify.
Yes, I am African-American. I am a member of the culture created by the Africans who were brought to America as slaves. I can't speak to or for the Africans who came after that.
So that is what I am trying to say with my chosen identity. I don't care what you think about it. But most importantly, I don't even understand why should I care. I should care about the opinions of people I love, respect, and cherish. How would you like it if I had big problems with whatever term you used for yourself? It would be beyond stupid.
I don't care what Latinos, Hispanics, Asians, Asian-Americans, Chinese, Monogloids, whatever. . . they choose their identity and I will respect their choices.
This is America. And my forebearers died, some of them nightmarishly, horrible deaths, so I could have the freedom to live my life as I see fit. And I would be doing a disservice to them to do anything less than life my life as free as I can.
Ok, so we have established the we can see color. We also established there are shades of colors. Like black people (some say brown) could really be black or brownish. White people could be albino white or peach white.
I always thought white was an absence of color. After all we're not considered people of color, right?
I did. ucr. fbi. gov/.../table-43 This was my response when you asked for data earlier. It is from the fbi. gov.
I'm not talking about how "these two groups behave or what these two groups believe". I'm saying that a certain group is poor. Poverty causes crime regardless of which race. If they were flip flopped with any other different race they would have the same statistics as long as they had the same poverty rates.
Some say "Black" people are brown? Who says that? I don't know those people. And I have never heard anyone call "White" people, peach people or albino people. Didn't you know that "Black" people can be Albinos? Do you need photos for proof or aware of how to use a search engine?
No young sir. White is not the absence of light. White is the combination of all colors. Sunlight is an example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_3cQpJQU-s
Wow. . .
Uhm, so those stats, what at they representative of? Commission of crime?
My black grandfather uses black/brown/African American interchangably. Hispanic people here also used apricot or peach colored when referring to white people. White/gringo is the most common though.
From now on I'm going to refer to myself as a person of colors.
Sure. I wonder though how they calculated what is Black/African American. What do they believe determines race? Since people reference these statistics it is the definition that the FBI uses that truly matters.
Really? Did you tell you grandfather his use of those terms offended you and belittled the U. S?
Well, I have never heard of "White" people being called the "Peach" people. Do you have evidence of this beyond your personal experience?
And you can call yourself whatever you wish. You will never see me posting nonsense about how it offends me.
So you are saying that these stats from the FBI constitute a commission of crime report?
Uhm. . . the FBI only publishes arrest reports from jurisdictions that report to it.
Yeah, white privilege worked out really well for my people, the Cascarrians, think Native Americans but from Russia. We only fought a 101 year war with the Russians, that ended in the genocide of my people. The Russians claimed to have killed 90%, the UN commision on genocide said it was closer to 98%.
You say white privilege, I say fuck you.
We are just as white as any other whites. And we were killed by other whites just cause we wanted to keep our own land.
I say go away with your BS.
I don't live in Russia. I live in the U. S.
Got a few Russian friends. And I have to say, most of them don't really identify with being "White". They identify with being Russian.
You might want to think about that context for a minute.
I was an American, born in Washington state. I moved to Malta and got my citizenship here and renounced my American citizenship.
So why are you talking about Russia?
I live in America. Russia doesn't have a big "White" people problem. The problems I have noted in Eastern Europe, the Baltic states, etc. is one of ethnic and cultural conflicts. They date back centuries.
So unless you can bring your conversation to the American continent, we are done.
And please, read the "take". I put a lot of work into it.
Can't we all just agree that if you fucked up in life, you will not see any privilege?
White folks who lie, cheat, commit crime or do other undesirable stuff get as much stick as any colour. The white drug addict in the dock does *NOT* enjoy a privilege advantage over the black Yale educated judge who sentences him.
One commands respect and "good morning sir", everytime he walks into his office, he takes lunch with senators on Capitol Hill. While the other is looked on with scorn and disgust in Walmart and leaves people of his own race feeling ashamed to be associated with him.
That first sentence. . . what does that even mean?
Of course, a "White" drug addict can have privilege over a "Black" judge. A "White" drug addict can have privilege over a Latino business man. A "White" drug addict can have privilege over an Arab movie star.
Why did so many people read my "take" and only respond to the small part about "Black" people.
Did you read the take?
Would a "White" drug addict be stopped and asked to prove that he is a U. S. citizen?
Have you ever seen Gabriel Iglesias in concert?
"My team & I were pulled off my tour bus by officers in Arizona between Yuma & Phoenix. Even with my face on the bus they wanted to see my ID (no joke). I have madd love for AZ. & I just wanted you guys to know that this won't keep me away. Next time I will just wallpaper my bus with Larry "the cable guy" so I won't get stopped."
pocho.com/.../fluffy-buss.jpeg
If privilege is about negative assumptions then you're so very wrong if you think white people don't make assumptions about white people based on first impressions. People of all colours judge other people of all colours based on appearances. There are plenty of derogatory assumptions people make.
Over here these folks will get stopped and searched by police under the assumption they are doing something wrong, based off appearance. They are white yes, but they are associated with very negative things i.pinimg.com/.../...320213a6cb6ddb33f550fcbba0.jpg
As for that bus guy. Don't you think it's legit to stop a large vehicle so close to a border which is routinely crossed by illegal immigrants? FWIW i have no idea who that guy is, so its reasonable that the police officers didn't either. Asking for ID is procedure and routine... "Don't you know who i am? look at the bus bro" has never been a valid way of proving your identity.
You seem like a logical guy, but you post some very irrational things. A "White" person looks at another "White" person and thinks that their "Whiteness" could be the evidence of a crime or terrorist intent? Do you actually believe that Arabs are targeted because they are dressing a certain way?
I am just asking for a rational conversation.
You are talking about Gabriel Iglesias. So you are suggesting that all buses close to the border are stopped and searched? And that the all the non-Latin people simply don't mind being searched. That Iglesias is somehow more "sensitive" than a "Black", a "White", or an Asian person who is routinely in the same situation.
That he wasn't targeted because he was Latino?
He describes the incident. Did you read it? His face is on the side of the bus. In fact, one of the ICE agents recognized him. Knew his act. Was a fan. But they had to card him anyway because. . . you know. . . he could still be "illegal".
I’ll add the caveat that the situation is a little different in Europe.
However, Im just putting forward the argument that privilege is not a racial thing, it’s an appearance (and status) thing. Your former president was a man named Barack Hussain Obama (he’d be current too if they allowed 3rd terms in office lol). That’s a shining example of where the racial privilege argument is destroyed by good connections, wealth, people skills and hard work.
People don’t look at whiteness or blackness or brownness or yellow or green or blueness either as evidence of criminal intent. They look at how they are dressed, how they act, how they speak how they generally conduct themselves. Do you think Asian workers walking out of Goldman Sachs are automatically assumed to be part of the triads off to collect their protection money? Put that Asian in a lowered Honda and cover him in tattoos with a cap on backwards... different perception.
But I have been all over Europe. I am going back next month and I am going to beg to hang out with Jacquesvol in Belgium.
Anyway, there is racism in Europe and it can be horrible.
But man it is just not the same. I was in Russia. I was terrified and I was totally wrong that racism would be the same way it was in the U. S., only worse. Sure, I got some stares. But what I noticed was that ethnic conflict matters way more. Russians are extremely nationalistic. Sure they might hold racist stereotypes of "Blacks". But man, the ethnic turmoil between Ukrainians and Russians, Latvians and Russians, Georgians and Russians is something to behold.
I can't tell you how many times my mouth was left hanging open.
As for the second part of your post, that's why I posted the videos in the take. And the thing is, among the responses in this take there are people who actually support that kind of profiling. What is your explanation for that? And there are people who share those feelings, and they are judges, police officers, politicians, loan officers, guidance counselers, tv producers, movie executives, music producers, CEOs, and corporate/business leaders.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAhXoZd_sAM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb7I5iqVEKk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRd8gx61KYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_7iQXK80dk
I agree with you but I live in England and haven't been to America ever, so I'm painfully ignorant on this matter. I wanted to read your take as I realised that I didn't really understand what white privilege is.
I think it extends to the UK too, though. It's probably quite similar. I'm moving to Japan this week so it'll be interesting to see how privilege manifests itself over there.
I do think that white people feel some shame for their race. For instance, our past atrocities and white people do intentionally darken their skin colour either by tanning (despite cancer risk) or fake tan, or make up.
I really enjoyed the video about Muslims in America. Enjoyed is not the right word but I thought it was a good video.
I agree the issues could be similar. I watched a racial conversation about issues in the UK last night. And I think that is an interesting conversation. I think in the case of Europe, there are definite cultural issues. The UK and America are different in this regard. The UK has to deal with issues of culture also. But the U. S. is multicultural. We are still dealing with the myth of race.
But whatever we think of "White" privilege, good or bad. It must be negotiated for an non-"White" person to be successful. And I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. I think perhap a few consequences are bad and may be they should be dealt with.
In the case of the UK, it is not just about not being "White", but also about not being entirely "British". Wouldn't that be fair to say? And again, I think that is just part of the deal.
Nope still don't agree.
Are you white? If you are I don't know what you experience in life but some of the stuff you brought up such as not discussing the negatives of my "white" culture, feeling accepted etc complete bullshit. Most white people don't want to be pasty white, they tan cause they wanna look more healthy instead of pasty white.
It all depends on geography. If I as a white person go to Africa I won't be able to walk the streets without being stared down by everyone, being yelled at by kids etc. I know, cause I've been there.
I'm not saying there is no discrimination in the world or stereotyping but everyone deals with them.
Being oversensitive ain't gonna get you anywhere.
Lmfao... keep dodging that point with your completely nonsensical argument about skin shade. You do know how to read, don't you.
You are just in time... Your nickname is the perfect answer to the Take owner: shut up man!
😂😂😂😂😂👏👏👏👏👏
@EmperorOfRome 100%
They tan, but it isn't because they reject their skin color. Some people think they look better tanned. They are not trying to look like a brown or black person.
As for being in Africa, in no way can I speak to the experience of a "White" person in Africa. I have never been there.
And as for being oversensitive, you entirely missed the point of the take. And your response has nothing to do with anything I posted.
@cherryphi82 It is absolute nonsense. But at least she had the courage to post it.
:D
@EmperorOfRome Uhm. . . and if I refuse to shutup?
You will have a hissyfit, perhaps?
😂😂😂😂😂
Don't overestimate youself, Roland.
@RolandCuthbert Oh wow. I totally misread that. I did not mean to direct that shut up comment towards you, but at the commenter. Scratch that comment.
5.6 percent of people in the USA are oriental. 8.9 percent of people in south Africa are white. I guess a nice comparison one could make.
@EmperorOfRome Overestimate myself?
What does that even mean?
@cherryphi82 Oh! I am responding to so many posts.
That actually was my bad.
Then what is this mytake about? Proving white privilege excists? Black privilege excists too. I cannot go to every neighborhood in my country as I am white and a woman or I might get in trouble. Everyone has priviliges, also basically everyone deals with discrimination one way or another.
It funny how this "take" mentions several non-"White" groups, yet some folks are totally obsessed with "Black" people.
:D
You will never be profiled for being a criminal. And the thing is, you agree with that assessment. You will never be profiled for being an illegal immigrant. And again you agree with that assessment. You will never be profiled for being a terrorist, and again you agree with that assessment.
You agree that non-"White" groups can be profiled for different negative behaviors depending upon the situation.
Yet you don't believe "White" people can or should ever be.
Then you deny that is privilege.
Astonishing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvmnTwWtW5I&t=77s
Euhm ever heard of borders or countries? If I cross into a country I do not have the correct passport or visa for and I get caught I will be kicked out. Simple. That goes for everyone.
In a predominantly white country I wouldn't stand out as much, again was a much different story in Africa or Azarbaijan.
I'm also a woman so on avergae no one sees me as a criminal or a threat, like I said everyone has priviliges and advantages. So do men, so do whites, so do blacks , so do...
Fact is most terrorists recently have been of color, I've worked in security, you gotta profile.
You don't have to profile. You choose to profile. And if you were negatively profiled because you were "White" you would not like it. In fact, I am quite sure you would be highly upset.
Sufficed to say you missed the point.
You just acknowledged "White" privilege. It is a reality every non-"White" person has to deal with at some time or another.
Remember what you said when you first posted me? "Nope still don't agree".
I get negatively profiled for being a woman and yes white in certain countries or even areas of my own country. Seeing how you don't understand everyone has got privileges, I still do not agree with you.
You didn't even talk about my point. You talked about being a woman. So you went from denying that "White" privilege exists to claiming that everyone has some form of privilege.
That was quick. . . and weird.
Sufficed to say, it isn't like you disagree with "White" privilege. You agree with the principles of it. You just deny its effects on people who are not "White". Which as I have said several times in this thread, is nonsensical.
I am saying being oversensitive to someone's priviliges isn't gonna get you anywhere. Everyone has priviliges so it's idiotic to only point out "white" privilege. I talk about my own experience to prove you a point, obviously I cannot talk about being a Man, a handicapped person or an immigrant or whatever. You over generalize and sometimes frankly have no clue what you are talking about.
Why do I care about that assessment? It is nonsensical and it has nothing to do with my point. If I had dime for every time the anti-PC crowd made this all about them, their guilt or my success I would never have to work again.
This has nothing to do with your assessment of being oversensitive. This has to do with plain ole common sense. By your own admission you agree that non-"Whites" should be profiled. And I certainly do not believe you think "Whites" should be profiled for simply being "White".
Basic math says there are more "Whites" in this nation than non-"Whites". And if most "Whites" think like you, then that only certifies my point. "White" privilege exists. And if as a non-"White" person, you wish to survive it and be successful you had better understand it and how it works with respect to the specific stereotypes about your grouping.
Dude what the hell is the point of this take then? I do agree it is common sense when you go to a place you adapt to their culture, you follow the legal procedures to enter that country and you learn about it's language, history and culture if you seek to immigrate. My country has pretty much consisted out of whites, since ever. America , as far as I know is predominantly white too.
So this is awesome. You didn't even read the take? And what is this about immigration? I am not an immigrant. But if were to have children, I would have to sit them down and talk to them from time to time about how they could be profile.
It is common sense.
As for your country, I have no idea what is your country. And if you not an American. . . why are you posting me?
I did read it. You just make no sense. You keep saying I don`t understand you, you clearly do not understand me either, perhaps reread my answers?
No where in the title or beginning did you say this was only for americans. Might want to write a better title and take next time if you only want Americans to answer.
You brought up the immigrant subject, I just replied to it. Again reread the conversation.
? How can you say that? You are not even an American and you have no idea of how American culture even works. Why would I care about your critique? Are you here to defend the "White" race? I don't believe in race and if you suffer from this delusion, why on earth would I consider your view to be rational? It is based upon an irrational premise.
You are not going to tell me about American history or American culture which is what this take is about. If you want to talk about "Whiteness" in your own nation, I would be glad to hear about it. But I know what I was taught in school. I know what I experienced as a boy and a man in American society. And I know what we have to tell our young people about the folks who believe in crazed racist nonsense.
No, I didn't bring up the immigrant topic. I said I would never be profiled as an illegal immigrant or did you not understand that simple point?
Can you read? How ignorant can you be? Again didn't mention this was only for Americans, be more clearer next time buddy.
Lots of different nationalities on this site, fyi.
I never said I was trying to teach you about American history , that's what you made out of that. All I said is that the majority of Americans are white. Am I factually incorrect?
"You will never be profiled for being a criminal. And the thing is, you agree with that assessment. You will never be profiled for being an illegal immigrant. And again you agree with that assessment. "
You brought it up saying I would never be profiled as an illegal immigrant and I told you I could be if I was illegaly in another country.
Yawn, stating that the take is about American society in the description of the take is not clear enough? You didn't read the take. You responded to the title.
And I thought you were an American, hence the reference to illegal immigration.
Description? More like after 1/4 of the take you mentioned the u. s.
Dotn want others to respond? Mention it clearly in the title or the start of your take (nowhere did you say you didn't want responses from non Americans) or simply don't post on this site if you don't want responses from others.
Ilegal immigration happens everywhere it isn't just an American phenomenon. You seen to assume a lot don't you?
Well, the point of "takes" is that you read them. I don't know what else to say. Hey, it has happened to me. I have responded to titles too in the past. But that's my problem. Not the person who authored it. In regards to responses, I would rather respond to people who understand what I am saying and not to what they think my points could be.
I guess you really do not understand my point about being an illegal immigrant. You still think this is about whether illegal immigration is good or bad?
I think illegal immigration is illegal and a bad thing. I am not sure what you were looking for when you went into this topic.
So did you write non Americans aren't allowed to answer? Didn't see that no, if you so kindly could point it out for me that would be great!
I did read your take, buddy. You obviously don't understand what I'm saying.
Did I say anything about it being good or bad? Nope. Again you don't get it either. Judging by the amount of people who disagree with you I ain't the only one that sees the full picture.
I don't know what to say. I didn't say that non-Americans could not answer. If I did not want to talk to you, I could simply block you from the take. I am just waiting for the conversation to mature. Because though you may not be aware of how American culture/society works, you do know about about your own country and society. Maybe in one of these posts. . . you might mention something about that.
Then, we might actually have the opportunity to have a conversation.
As for people disagreeing with me. Long ago, a lot of people disagreed that I should even have the right to be a free man.
They were wrong.
http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1523316967781.jpg
http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1523317439901.jpg
http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/167428154
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Your memes aren't even funny. Let me help you.
thecircular.org/.../pic-2-1.png
What? Yours is the lame one. Stupid Grampa meme.
"Oh, get it, blacks are illiterate, hurrdehur-hur!" Gas yourself, you crypto-boomer gen-X degenerate. I run shit down here now, Gramps. You think you know internet memes? I AM INTERNET MEMES.
http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1523381502182.jpg
http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1523382004838.png
http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1523379964661.png
http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1523371988808.png
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VqG_4ADFfQ
Dude, your memes are boring. How is a grandpa posting funnier stuff?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLOw_SzkRQ8
Old man, you're no threat to me and there'd be no honor in destroying you.
http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1522376371853.gif
http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1522605903954.gif
http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1522725769603.gif
http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1522879485718.gif
But keep talkin' shit and see what happens.
Haha! The great internet warrior is threatening me?
I am terrified.
There is way more funnier racist stuff dude. Racists have no sense of humor.
jokideo.com/.../Me-racist---meme.jpg
Simple economics proves its true, black in the USA inherit around $10000, whereas whites inherit $110000. That's not hard earned cash, that's money you get simply from the fact that your parents died.
The whites get generations of money earned from ancestors, whereas African americans only receive wealth from a couple generations, because before that finding work was damn near impossible.
Well, I guess there is that. Most anti-PC types will point out that immigrant groups also came here dirt poor. And after a few generations they were able to build economic power. Well, perhaps they were not as poor as African-Americans. But that's what they will go with a rebuttal. I like that you note "African-Americans". Since the issue that I am pointing out is one of the myth of race. Although African and Caribbean immigrants have much higher rates of education an African-Americans or even "Whites", they still cannot get the the privilege of being an "individual" extended to them.
But the same goes for American Indians, Latinos, Arabs, and yes. . . even Asians.
And I think most non-"Whites" know this implicitly.
It isn't even a "White" and "Black" thing. It is a "White" and non-"White" thing. In truth, race only defined "White" people. That's why the rest of us are so confused about it.
so USA government gives 10000 to blacks and respectively 110000 to whites?
@looneymalooney Uhm. . .
what?
Exactly! I don't understand why people always deny existence of white privilege. From the other side, I believe it is straight racism (white vs world) wrongly considered as privilege. Sure you can condemn it but can't deny it's existence.
Thanks for that.
For 5 downvotes? lol
Haha! I tend to make some people upset.
Good Read.
Because I'm not really White nor do I surround myself with a lot of Caucasians, I struggle to understand White Privilege if it exists. Especially with all the mytakes and other blogs and stuff seemingly making weird assertions that conflict with each other.
Thanks for the take, though I'll only take it with a pinch of salt for now, I feel this has better clarity compared to other sources.
Well, thank you. I am not here to convince people of privilege. Its always hard to talk about racism, because there is so much guilt over. My "White" friend from my race discussion group said, "it is hard for some "White" people to talk about, because they view it was "White" people's original sin. They simply cannot relate to it as just being human and making human mistakes."
I always appreciate him speaking up and talking about that. And we remain friends to this day.
We have to learn about history that’s primarily white? You mean because white people were the leaders and overwhelming majority race for all of American history? If it wasn’t mostly white people it wouldn’t be accurate.
Enough with the ‘’white privilage’’ garbage. I know many black people who actually work hard and earn a living and treat women well and don’t glorify ‘’gangsters’’ or ‘’fucking the police’’ and guess what? They’re enjoying that same ‘’white privilage’’ that you mentioned. Because it’s not privilage, it’s just a better culture, anyone who adopts it will be successful regardless of their race.
Right, so how is your first statement disproving "White" privilege? Even if you think the fact that everyone has to know about your version of history is just a rational conclusion isn't that the very definition of privilege?
And I don't think you read the take. Of course, non-"Whites" need to understand "White" culture and social norms. Right? Isn't that what I said?
As for the rest of what you said, it is just drivel. It has nothing to do with what I wrote.
Please read the take.
I put a lot of effort into it.
Thank you!!!
If you don’t like ‘’white’’ history, then learn about a non western country. Caucasians created most western countries, the US was created by caucasians and the majority of people for its entire history have been caucasian. If you wanna limit your personal knowledge by only recognizing those of your own race go ahead, but most of the country wants accurate history about the United States which involves primarily caucasians.
You don’t need to follow western culture either, Asian cultures have been successful in the US as well, and hispanic culture works too.
However, there are other cultures in the US that never have been and never will be successful, not due to ‘’privilage’’ but due to the mindset and actions of those within those cultures.
America is mostly white because (majority) Spanish and English explorers "discovered" the country, and decided that they wanted the land the native americans lived on- many wealthy americans became the overwhelming leaders by abusing and taking advantage of minority labourers and principally black slaves- surely you must know that?
There were still non-white people, they just didn't write the history- that doesn't mean they weren't there.
History is written by the winning side- and those who could write it, not those who were used, repressed, and had to fight for fair rights to education.
Sorry, I had like 150 posts to respond to.
I don't have to like "White" history. I have to know it. I don't have to like "White" culture. I have to know it in order to negotiate this society and become successful. But you can become successful without knowing thing about Medger Evers. You don't have to know who Cesar Chavez was. You don't have to understand the Sioux language.
But every one who is not-"White" in this country have to understand the norms that to you are simple as wearing your skin.
That's the point about "White" privilege.
Hence the name.
Again, you noting Asian and Latino culture (s) just proves my point. What are you required to know about them to be successful? Nothing. And if you were required to, you would howl to the moon about how unfair it was.
For most non-"Whites" this is a fact of life. They "code switch" typically. They talk and conduct themselves one way when in the dominant culture, then they switch back when they are in their own culture.
"6. Most "Whites" will never feel shame about being a member of their own culture. Most will never know what it is like to not want to be a member of your own ethnic group. "White" people don't have discussions about what is wrong with "White" people. The "culture" (as you all have noted, I claim "White" people is merely a cultural designation) isn't capable of that kind of debate. But among Asian-Americans, African-Americans, Latin-Americans, American Indians, Arab-Americans, those discussions are common. Most "Whites" are pretty comfortable in their own skin. They don't have surgery on their eyelids to look like Asians or try to take creams to darker their skin color. In the non-"White" experience there are always themes of the struggle to accept yourself, your culture, and your history."
So you are basically saying "It's a privilege to be proud of who you are". What about "Let's stop hating ourselves" instead?
Uhm. . . I posted 7 points. I am pretty sure. You can go back and check. There are 7.
As for the one you zeroed in on. Well, no I am not saying being proud of yourself is "White" privilege.
I am saying that most "Whites" will never experience self-hatred because of their how their culture is views.
I mean, you wouldn't say that your culture has any defects or anything negative about it, would you?
Of course it does, but why focusing on that? If I was German I wouldn't feel guilty for them invading Poland as much as if I was Ugandian I wouldn't feel guilty for Idi Amin killing innocents. It's THEIR guilt, not mine.
You are not reading the entire take. Can an Arab not focus on the negative aspects of Arab Culture? A Latino? A "Black" person?
I mean, can they pretend that people do not see them through some negative lens?
Think about carefully before you jump to the standard answer that there are no ramifications.
thegrio.com/.../
So what? Do you think a white persons isn't aware of the damage that the Western/Internet culture have brought upon "old timey" communication systems? Is that what you think? We do.
We are very aware of having used military advanced technology to take over the Native Americans when Europeans arrived to the Americas. Now, should I feel guilty about that? Don't think so. I wasn't there putting down Cherokee with a rifle.
For the same reason, I am not the one imposing the social media and the network sharing in the working labour; won't feel guilty for something just because "my race did it".
I have a disagreement with point 6, not with point 1 to 5 nor point 7; I do not agree with those either for the most part, but I'm most likely neutral about them. Point 6 is just entirely wrong in my opinion instead, hence why I'm pointing to that one specifically.
Also, what would be the negative aspects of "Black culture"? The ghetto? If you are not part of it, why would you feel like it's your responsability. Everyone can decide if they want to give up and live the life they were imposed, or dying fighting it.
What in the world are you talking about? Anti-PCdom is absolutely not aware of "White" privilege. And if you want to feel guilt, I have a solution for you.
I have been looking at a brand new Hyundai 2018 Genesis. It is going to cost me about $28,000. I promise that if you write me a check for that amount, I will absolve you of all guilt.
Is that better?
Can we stop talking about nonsense and get back to the topic?
Again another nonsensical statement. You need to read your anti-PC manual. It says that I should be responsible for it.
You didn't listen well in anti-PC class. Go to the American Renaissance and get educated. They can teach you. I cannot. I am a not a racist. I don't believe in race nor do I believe a race can be better than another race.
Gee Whiz!
https://www.amren.com/about/issues/
Oooh, now I get. You are one of those U. S. inhabitants who believe the whole world is North America.
We can end this conversation.
Yawn. . . that was one of the most disconnected weird series of posts I have ever seen. I talked about the American experience specifically. I can't speak to or for other experiences. And I have no idea on earth why I should even try.
Not sure why you posted me when I specifically talked about the U. S.
Good luck in your country and. . .
bye!!!
:D