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Freedom of Speech Does Not Mean Freedom From Consequences (Page 2)
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Why thank you sir. I have my rare moments.
This was actually done already. I had no idea.
:D
Freedom of Speech Does Not Mean Freedom From Consequences ↗
I never found anything offensive about Kathy Griffin beheading Trump because nobody would have had a problem before he became president. There's plenty of videos of people mutilating celebrities effigies and nobody talks about it. Trump is a reality show celebrity and not really a politician.
Well, you might not have had an issue and if you are consistent that's good. I think that is what I am getting at, "consistency". We do not have laws against hate speech. But that does not mean there are not consequences.
Kathy dealt with her consequences eventually in a constructive way. Initially, I disagreed with her reaction. She pretended like it was too much.
It's not hate speech when it's one person and I am consistent on that. If one person is a prick than the public should be allowed to call them out on it. Doesn't matter who they are. Also, because she's a "comedian" she has a right to parody anybody that she wants. I know that plenty of people have made "hate speech" against Obama, but I don't care and it's not hate speech in my opinion because it's just one person.
Oh and I want to be clear. Kathy's photo made it look like she was threatening Trump's life. She can't possibly say it was misconstrued. I think she admits it was a poor joke. But again, she deserved the condemnation. You simply can't make threats against public officials.
Hate speech against Obama is a totally different thing. People who threatened his life were investigated just like Griffin. But plenty of others folks made jokes without implying they wanted him murdered.
He's not a political figure, he's as much of a politician as Arnold Schwarzenegger or Jesse Ventura. And a photo of a severed head does not mean threatening someone's life. You can interpret it however you want, but I don't care because he's not a politician in my opinion. He never will be.
I won't argue with you on your personal opinion. You have a right to that. But trump gets the same protection under the law as any other President.
Basically you're admitting to tyranny from the president. People can threaten regular celebrities, but not the president? The president is just another citizen and the whole point of this country was to never treat somebody special.
No people cannot threaten regular celebrities. And we consider threats to the president extraordinary. We lost a president in the 1960s. And I am absolutely certain the secret service is determined to not let that happen again.
So criticize President Trump as much as you want. But do not threaten his life.
Alex Jones did not lie about Sandy Hook. Your info is misplaced.
You might wanna focus about what the big picture he's talking about, such as the New World Order and taking over of society, instead of spamming about Sandy Hook all day.
Even Facebook CEO says we should not censor alternative media. And you bet your ass they're trying to take Alex off the air because he's a pain in the globalists' side.
Here we have a snowflake making threats online who was confronted IRL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEy0XuE0Kyo&t=2s
There's a difference between lying and making calls for violence against someone.
That lying sack of turds will be broke very soon. I hope you and his other minions do some overtime because Jones is going to need someone to help with his bills.
The problem that I have with the whole concept of "hate speech" is that it's all up to interpretation, to the point where even pointing out facts and data (*caugh*google*caugh*) might get you fired because the company is afraid of being called sexist by a minority of loud and sensitive snowflakes with huge influence.
Well, you can try to figure out how to stop companies from having the right to hire/fire. You won't succeed. That right is upheld by the Supreme Court. And you can get fired for much, much less. For instance, if you the company is engaged in trying to win business from a firm headed up by a Jewish man, and you are a person who expresses doubt that the holocaust took place, that company can fire you without hesitation. Because they can simply state that your views are in the way of their capitalistic right to make a profit.
Or if a firm is headed up by a woman, a Latino, it does not matter. Because companies reserve the right to do whatever they deem necessary, under the law, to turn a profit. And if you can't figure out how to represent your company in the best possible light, you do not deserve a job. Your freedom of speech is undisturbed because you can say whatever you wish. But your freedom of speech does not "trump" the firm's freedom to decide to fire you.
It's sad that many have forgotten why the first Bill of rights mattered so much in the early years of America. Free Speech allowed citizens to speak freely of their minds while the British law did not allow that. While we may have the freedom of speech, it does not mean that there will be no consequences.
As my Uncle would always say America is the only mental asylum with out a fence around it, that picture of the severed head, it's very disgusting.
Yep and with the exception of all that bs of being on no-fly lists, she deserved what she got. To her credit, she took back her apology and is fighting back But her initial reaction was pitiful. I simply could not feel sorry for her.
The only consequence I'd accept againt freedom of speech is people thinking you're a moron.
The rest is too much. Words don't kill, and if you consider being offensive as a crime, we're going to have to put a lot of people in prison. Including those who are offending people by saying that they're offended.
It will be a "being offended" context, where the biggest crybaby will win.
you're french right? i dare you to walk up to a morrocan immigrant at the corner of the street and tell him "go back from where you came from you ugly f*Ck" i guarantee you that within a couple mins he and his friends will gang up on you and cause you some serious harm.
its easy being tough when there is no one to actually make you pay for what you say but when you're facing someone nuts you better watch your word.
@3rdSrike And I wouldn't be in the wrong. Thugs beating you up for something you said doesn't make them right. That would just make them nothing more than a pack of wild animals.
wild animals or not that makes no difference neither does being right the end result is you will get your asz handed to you and probably seriously injured because you chose to confront someone out of your league... i dont go around talking sh*t to people i know i have no way of dealing with, we all wanna play tough but in reality normal everyday people like most of us can't measure up to thugs, gangsters or government officials or anyone related to them, so attempting to challenge such people head on is a very bad idea.
@3rdSrike So basically, for you, the one who is right is the one who can use the biggest violence and brute force?
Well fuck me, I thought we were some kind of evolved species.
never said that strong people are right, that is not correct but strong people can actually back up their words with violence, take the russian or italian mafia for example, if you see a member of the russian mafia beating some dude cause he refused to give him 10$ , are you going to step in and tell him to f*Ck off cause thats considered stealing or are you going to keep going and not get involved? the asnwer is clear to me, i would love to help the guy but i simply can't, i am not match for an organaztion like the mafia just like you are no match for a dozen thugs running after you with knives and guns.
in the real world being strong often lets do what you want regardless of whether its right or wrong, sad but this is the truth.
@Guanfei Right if thugs attempt to harm you, they will see a jail cell. But we are not talking about that. We are talking about the whiny snowflakes that say derogatory things about entire groups of people and expect no blowback.
It is beyond belief.
@3rdSrike Well, I don't want to live in Russia. I live in America. And our debate is much less violent than confronting the Russian mafia.
I am just saying that people can criticize whomever you wish. But if they get called racist, sexist, homophobic or whatever, get over it.
Except they're not facing jail, right now. At least where I live. It's quite common that those thugs attacks someone, get arrested and then are free after a day. They have the "minority card" which allows them to basically do almost whatever they want.
Dude, I can't do a thing about France. I live in America. If what you say is true, I would seek redress through my local representative.
Well. . . it all depends on how important the issue is for you I guess.
In America, my ancestors thought it was important enough to risk their lives.
What I mean by that is that people shouldn't face legal or physical consequences for what they say. Unless it harms someone in a tangible way, like making him lose his job, his family, or pushing people to attack him physically or kill him, then it's just words. And words can't hurt you or kill you, they only have the power you give them.
Being offended isn't being a victim. You're offended, well, so what? Too bad.
Yeah, I would agree. But you are not talking about anything in my take. I don't understand your issue. And I certainly can't do anything about it.
When people are oppressed, they have to find a way to rise up and fight back. It seems like you are claiming you are being oppressed because you can't criticize certain groups. If that is true, what are you willing to do to fight for your freedom? Since this right seems to be centrally important to you.
cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/.../martin8.jpg
That is not what I say. I said words don't kill and therefore there shouldn't be any consequences or limitation of freedom of speech. Simple as that.
There is a difference between being offended and being oppressed. Someone telling you you're an idiot may be offensive, but that's it. That has no other consequences for you. Now, someone hitting you because you're gay/black/pastafarian is oppression, and therefore you should stand up to fight it.
But as long as it's just words, then at best you have the right to respond.
There are always consequences to anything offensive you say regardless of whether its your right or not... i watched as two guys ( one muslim) argued about religion till the other one told the muslim guy muhammad is a pig , as a reault the muslim guy punched the sh*t out of him and left him to bleed on the ground... now iam not a muslim and dont agree with a lot of their traditions but iam smart enough to not give someone a good reason to hurt me... if yohre in the wrong yoyre weaker than your opponent.
I also know people who protested against the government and now can't find a job... freedoom is imaginary... being offended by every little detail is dumb but a lot of what u say have an effect on your life... just like plenty of slutty women sleep around cause they are free to but end up being pumped and dumped only and never get anything real from guys.
If that is all you are saying, then you are not saying anything. But to claim there should be no limitation on freedom of speech is not being sane. America's free speech laws are much stronger than those in France, I would imagine. You can literally say anything here. But you can't slander someone. You cannot threaten someone. We have all of this set down in the constitution.
I think you posted me accidentally. Because I have no idea of what I said in mytake that you disagree with at this point.
You truly believe no one can threaten you cause of "laws" ? Lol. Be real my friend people are being threatened daily and the police does nothing about it... iam not disagreeing with you iam telling the french guy that he is wrong.
Honestly I think your premise is kind of a nonstarter. Most people on the Right just want to be able to speak their minds without being brutally assaulted, stalked, doxed, threatened and having their families terrorized. Please.. go ahead and tell me this isn't happening everyday now.
Uhm. . . I think you are disconnected from reality if you think only people on the "right" are being threatened.
It isn't even a common sense statement.
But that kind of speech is outlawed. Believe it or not. And if you don't realize that, why are you even commenting on my "take"?
While what Kathy did was inappropriate, and went too far, what Trump did was worse. Torturing children to make a political statement, and not having a good plan to reunite parents and children, is way worse than what Kathy did.
yeah, but that's not what the take is about.
I agree with free speech. Outlawing hate speech is tricky in my opinion because of who may decide what hate speech is.
America does not outlaw hate speech.
Look it up.
Never said it did or should.
Then why mention it? I already addressed this in my take.
Anyone putting Trump down, especially that witch with the holding of the head above, I'd like to kick her ass from here to the white house. And theirs too. A-holes all of them.
You are a blue anon. Why pretend to be pinnk?
This is all part of NWO agenda to divide us and get us fighting with each other. Look up David Icke and Alex Jones on YouTube.
Infowars. com
Yeah, because they don't want to divide us. They just want to convince us of the invasion by the lizard aliens from Planet Mongo!
3.bp.blogspot.com/.../reptile-baby.jpg
You know you are absolutely nuts when you are so embarrassed about your belief system, you don't even talk about it. You simply post videos and want people to sit through two hours of a "presentation".
Hilarious!!!
First off, I don't believe in alien lizard men. That doesn't mean they aren't out there. Second, you have proven you are very stupid and closed-minded. Have fun drinking and eating GMO, slave.
If you won't watch the videos, that's your laziness/ignorance. Don't blame me though.
Yeah, you don't believe in alien lizard men. Specifically, you believe in lizard human hybrids.
Silly me, I keep forgetting!
us.v-cdn.net/.../3h6pf1uro74w.jpg
They're not hybrids. They come from another dimension.
As for real hybrids, they've been attempting a breeding program, that's in
The THREAT: Revealing the Secret Alien Agenda - David M. Jacobs (Author).
Again you would know this if you ever read anything and stopped watching CNN. Sadly, you are ignorant.
Dude, I don't think you know your own literature. The term Alex Jones has always used was lizard human hybrid. They should force you to watch 200 hours more of this stuff as punishment!
The ignorance!
c1.staticflickr.com/.../...954587_8f11703997_m.jpg
Mmm no, I already said, AJ doesn't believe in them. Stop putting words in my mouth.
Of course he believes in them!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E4q0Jjkn80
Good example: the homosexuals. The minute you say something they don't agree with, you're a homophobe (this would make me a proud one!). Yet WNBA player Candace Wiggins famously accused
fellow WNBA players of being 98% lesbian and of bullying her for being heterosexual before she retired from basketball.
Real freedom involves, not taking hypocritical positions, not trying to justify or excuse wrongdoing, but showing respect for the rights of others.
Dude, it just sounds like a personal problem to me. Grow some thicker skin. Lift some weights. Gain some toughness so you can deal with all the "consequences" of criticizing homosexuals.
Maybe you can lead a new movement. MLK lead a movement for advocating for basic dignity, the right to vote and freedom to use public resources that your tax dollars pay for.
Perhaps you can do this new thing where you advocate for the right criticize groups and the "freedom" from having them criticize you back.
@RolandCuthbert you are mistaken. Homos do not intimidate me. I speak my truth despite them. They are simply a good example of hypocrites who would muzzle free speech given half the chance.
Of course they intimidate you. Here you are complaining about how you treated by "homos". Do you think most waste two seconds thinking about you being a homophobe?
Haha!
And you are not muzzled. You are a coward.
As far as liberals are concerned, I'm a raging, howling, ultra-ultra-ultra-mega-extreme right-winger.
Everything you wrote is 100% correct.
Liberals hate anyone who disagrees about them on anything. That is why Trump will win in 2020.
I don't get it. You can have compromise and understanding.
But that requires you to mimic my actions when I take a step to you. You have to take a step to me.
And I am tired of this. I am tired of you being able to be hurt and being able to stomp off and go in your own direction to live in your echo chamber. But you think that is fine.
And somehow when I do it, I am wrong.
I am here and willing to talk to anyone with different views and try to work out an understanding. But if anyone is going to hurl insults at me, they had better able to handle what they dish out.
I don't understand what is so difficult to comprehend about that. These conversations are difficult. And they should be!
We have to accept that challenge and get it done!
Doesn't mean you take consequences into your own hands...
What do you mean by that?
antifa, for example, is not supposed to be beating up people who they believe are spreading "hate speech" but are doing so anyways. Many people are doing this
What does this mean in the context of my "take"? You understand that people have freedom of speech, but they are not free from consequences that result in the loss of their job, people disliking them, protesters outside their place of business, etc.
No one said anything about beating someone up.
And now with Kavanuagh, he might limit some of those "free speech" laws we have.
NEVERKAVANUGH
NEVERTRUMP
Hmmmm. . . the only thing I am afraid of it this authoritarian bent. So-call "conservatives" claim they want free speech.
But we all know how thin-skinned trump is. He certainly does not want free speech. It is only free if it is about praising him.
I like this Take.
Thank you sir!
You sound like a lib-tard. LOL
Progressivism is a mental illness.
You sound like you put some glue in a joint, sprinkled cocaine on top, dipped it in liquid tide and smoked it.
Yeah dude!!
Now you're simply proving how unhinged and deranged the progressive left is. You and your ilk are mental midgets.
Nah, I am not proving anything other than I can easily outclass a fake "so-called" conservative troll.
There is nothing "conservative" about you or your views. Cowardice is not a "conservative" trait.
Unfortunately, you've failed. You have zero class. Oh well.
A 61 year old man calling someone else a "libtard" with "mental illness" for expressing their opinion, and you think *he* has zero class? Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you old man? Grow the fuck up you pseudo-conservative Dave Rubin Koch-sucker.
Thank you, finally someone said it.
I absolutely could not agree more. Good job!