How do conservatives see themselves as the good guys? My 2 cents

[JustWorthlessMe]

I often wonder why, exactly, the people who have beliefs that would make them the bad guys in any movie still see themselves as heroes akin to John Wayne.

I realize that they are spoonfed propaganda by Fox "news" (who have admitted being a propaganda service for the Right) and various fearmongers like Rush and Alex Jones(btw why are the exact same people who call others snowflakes the ones who are so terrified of everything?)

Yes, the new habit of screaming "FAKE NEWS" at inconvenient facts helps....but I'd think the mental gymnastics that involves would strain over time.

of course facts don't matter to that bunch

They tend to over-react when frightened....Like when women start gaining a measure of equality

https://www.alternet.org/2014/12/creepy-misogynist-movement-thats-making-conservatives-even-more-sexist/

Their constant fear: scary dark-skinned people

https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2018/12/03/the-white-supremacy-surge/

Science

Don't get me started on their love of alternative lifestyles

Maybe their sense of good and evil depends on which "team" the person is on? That would explain a lot of things.

That would explain their cult-like love of Trump, he shares all their prejudices and fears....and they are a very insecure lot.

The fact that fear-mongering works so well on them implies one thing....

If you ask them, they'll say that the division in the country is due to Obama

Yes Yes, I know the usual people who share these traits will attack me but I'm not responding to any of them.

[nightdrot]

Just a real short reply.

Your list of things that conservatives opposed was wildly in error. Just a few samples.

Burke, the father of conservatism, supported the American revolution. Arguing that it was a reassertion of the historic rights of British subjects.

Slavery. Lincoln was a conservative. He hoped to preserve the Union without war and opposed those abolitionists who favored violence.

Eisenhower passed - through a GOP Congress - the interstate highway system. He was hardly a flaming liberal.

Civil Rights Act. Voting Rights Act. More Republicans voted as a percentage of the two parties for those two bills than did Democrats. As Lyndon Johnson (D) said at the signing ceremony for the Civil Rights Act, "Thanks to the Democrats, we have a bill. Thanks to the Republicans, we have a law."

Women's right to vote. Given that the necessary constitutional amendment required supermajorities in Congress - and at that time the GOP held majorities in both Houses of Congress - it is problematic that they opposed a woman's right to vote.

Nixon created the Environmental Protection Agency. I was not aware that he was now being claimed as a liberal.

These are just a few samples and even as regards the others, the case is less clear than you seem to assume. The problem being that you do not seem to understand either the history nor the intellectual pedigree of the idea that you are besmirching,

Briefly, what Americans call conservatism is actually classical liberalism. That government is best which governs least, and all the rest.

What Americans call "liberalism" is actually "radical" liberalism. "Radical," here not meaning as we use the term today, i. e., extremist, but rather as the ancient Greeks used it, meaning "to the root of." The radical liberals agreeing with the classical liberals that liberty is the purpose of government and politics, but arguing that differences in wealth and power in society make that liberty problematic.

In fact, the welfare state was founded by two conservatives - Bismarck in Germany and Disraeli in Britain - to reconcile the public to the dynamics and uncertainties of a free market economy. To this end they proposed an ameliorative welfare state to address the problems of temporary unemployment, old age and sickness.

As a further aside, Marx was ferociously opposed to the welfare state, which he regarded as a bribe by the bourgeoise of the working class to deprive the latter of their class identity. Please note, in this connection, that a welfare state is NOT the same thing as socialism. The latter characterized by government ownership of the means of production, a centrally planned economy and the abolition of private property.

Bottom line, you should get a surer grasp of the taxonomy of political philosophy and the pedigree of political ideas before you go making claims such as those you make in this piece. Without meaning to offend, this smacks more of self-satisfaction - and a very unjustified self-satisfaction - than it does of a well thought out, let alone historically accurate, analysis.

Indeed, even America's parties are more complicated then you seem to imply. American political parties are not ideological parties as you tend to see in Europe. Rather they are lose knit coalitions of regional, religious, ethnic, racial, income and other groups that have come together in part by common interests and in part by historical accident.

This is how you get a Republican Party that runs from Ted Cruz at one end to Susan Collins at the other. This is how you get a Democratic Party that runs from Joe Manchin at one end to Elizabeth Warren at the other.

Again, I intend no offense, but this MyTake could use a little work and a lot deeper analysis. Politics is more complicated than you seem to think.

[rjroy3]

Name 3 beliefs held by Conservatives today that would be the "Villain" stance in any given movie of your choosing. I'll wait.

I'll leave you with a basic logic note tho. Using an argument of "your people did bad stuff in the past" as damning evidence for those of today is flawed. Just like saying "White people owned slaves. That's what villains do. How do white people today see themselves as the good guys?". So how do you a white man see yourself as a credible voice for anything we should listen to? Your people were directly responsible for slavery in America. How can we trust you when your people were the biggest villains in the history of our country?

[Anonymous]

1) First of all you start on the assumption that all of these are good things, while a lot of them depend on your individual values. Of course certain things on the list are good things but no conservative nowadays thinks we should reinstate slavery or take the vote from women, if you're going to talk about conservatives please keep the talk to what conservatives today actually believe, there was a time where the left didn't want women to have the vote or to abolish slavery.

2) Not only is Alternet a very left wing source so shouldn't be taken very seriously unless backed up by many other sources, the article is not a piece of fact but opinion so I really don't know what I'm to comment on. The information that is provided has been mostly twisted it occasionally makes an okay point but all and all if just a biased opinion piece.

3) The second link not sure of any bias sorry but it's still inaccurate. Do you even fact check what you read? Please look into these things, political violence is a left wing problem right now that's quite large although some right wing violence still exists it's a small issue.

4) Not a conservative belief at all, all you're proving is you don't understand your opposition.

5) I don't even know what this is supposed to prove... it just makes you look stupid..

6) I don't know much about the cases but last time I check they haven't been changed and are therefore not sex offenders. I find it funny how the left support obama so much do you know some of the horrible things he's done?

7) Politics is very different from personal life, you actually should talk about you political beliefs.

8 ) Not wanting to go to war doesn't make you a coward, you're sounding like a far right extremist here.

9) Obama is another part of division but not the main cause although he was a terrible person.

10) This is not an attack, it a response the fact that you ignore them is exactly why you don't understand the conservative view and write things like this that makes you look like an idiot.

[belarus]

of course. imprison children.. ban all abortion,, place the bulk of the tax burden on the middle class... lecture everyone on morality while supporting the most corrupt president in history... demonize the poor and disabled... wave the flag of patriotism while allowing our veterans to go homeless.. yes conservatives are definitely the "good guys" LOL

[Opinion Owner]

@belarus
Imprison children? Yeah you'll have to explain that. Ban abortion? Of course, you shouldn't be killing children because they inconvenience you. Tax? Actually most conservatives support a flat tax so you're wrong. Not American so I honestly don't care much about your presidents but you should really look into the fucked up shit obama did. We don't demonise the poor or the disabled we just don't think they need as much welfare as you do as we actually want to help them live decent productive lives. Again this is a matter of welfare (Also a lot to do with immigration but you wouldn't want to talk about that) No one wants veterans on the street, when they are it's a tragedy and a failure of that country, I also don't care about flags.

[Scarecrow13]

There is a lot to address here and I can't get to it all but a few points from the image first. The Founders of the US were liberals, in the classical sense, and classical liberalism is a lot closer to what we would today call libertariansim than anything else, modern liberalism would have been completely foreign to them so trying to make a connection is anarchistic.
The Eight hour work day was pioneered by Henry Ford as was the weekend, based on the Christian and Jewish religions, and from that others started demanding it of their own employers.
Interstate Highways were Eisenhower's idea and he was not particularly a liberal, sure he wasn't the most conservative, he was rather moderate overall.
Social Security, yea great job there, now we have to pay into ta system where we will never see that money back.
I would like a source for the blame for global temperatures rising being on the things listed in the meme.
I do agree that Trump has a cult like following and that the rise of the alt-right has empowered White Nationalists.
Obama didn't divide our country? Oh what short memory we have. More could be said but I am sure this is toot much for most to read as it is.

[SkipStop]

Liberal media lies about many many topics all the time. And they are screwing / breaking society as a whole. And you used far left fake news networks as sources. Like any sane person is gonna fall for those. The National Review article is talking about how the left are using identity politics to label all right leaning people as extremists. Using keywords like "White supremacist, nationalist", etc. is nothing new from the left.

[Poormanscomedian]

another bunch of lies by a liberal. The south were all democrats that had slaves. The North Conservatives that were religious were against slavery. Again , more false propaganda by liberals. Since you don't know shit, I will tell you, Abraham Lincoln was leader of the North a Republican , The South was for Slavery , they were Democrats. Get a history book and learn something and quit listening to AOC

[Starrk]

The issue with this post is that you are putting too much emphasis on labels and not on ideology.

It's general knowledge that Republicans and Democrats experienced a switch in ideologies after the Civil Rights Era. There's a reason why most Republican voters are in the same key locations that were once Democrat havens 50 years ago.

You stated that during the Civil War, the North was for freeing the slaves and the South was for slavery. Well look at the current political map and tell me where the majority of the Democrat and Republican voters are at NOW.

[Anonymous]

I am an ex liberal, largely because of hate filled assholes like you. You are one of the biggest mongers of hate on this forum. A great example of the intolerance of today's left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51UGcghHZsk

[John_Doesnt]

After the most recent shit pulled by conservatives they have divided the country to its last strands. Outlawing abortion in Alabama and the trade war with China is destroying the same conservatives who voted for Trump.
Conservatives ain't the good guys. If they ever were.

[Poormanscomedian]

Obama told black Americans to kill cops and to riot , how is that not dividing the country? Obama hung out with people that used to bomb buildings in the 1970's , His preacher cursed the United States. Obama hated the military and everything it stands for and really hated the police giving them no support in any case.

[John_Doesnt]

@Poormanscomedian good job spinning the topic to Obama. Just like Fox News tells you to.
Why don't you tell me about how Obama killed Kennedy and Lying Ted Cruz was involved in the Roswell incident?

[Poormanscomedian]

Never thought that about those two items. Why do you think Trump killed Kennedy and how Trump was involved with Roswell.

[John_Doesnt]

@Poormanscomedian because Trump is an illegal alien from the Horse Head Nebula.

[rjroy3]

Sometimes "What about"-ism is a relevant response. When your base argument is to label one side as a villain group, with your individual reasons. Someone responding with saying your side is a villain group, with his individual reasons is a completely valid response.

TLDR; don't be a asshole if you can't take being treated like one

[Logorithim]

Taking China's side in a trade war? Now that is just dumb. Even Democratic Senator Charles Schumer has encouraged Trump to stay the course against China's totalitarian regime.

[John_Doesnt]

@rjroy3 what aboutism is never good, it proves you don't have a real argument for your own party's actions.

[John_Doesnt]

@Logorithim nope, most people including Trump supporters are against the trade war because it's hurting farmers.

[Poormanscomedian]

I agree with Trump on what he is doing. Sometimes you have to take a step back , to leap forward in the future.

[Logorithim]

That's not correct. Anyhow, farmers can be compensated using the tariff revenue.

Trump is the first President to stand up to China. Failure to do so means accepting the permanent loss of the US manufacturing base or a fall in US manufacturing wages to the point where US manufacturing is competitive with China- good luck with that when China doesn't have the same environmental, safety and labor regulations the US does or health care costs, plus China subsidizes its exporters. And I haven't even mentioned the IP theft that saves lots of money on R&D.

[John_Doesnt]

@Poormanscomedian no, Trump is just stepping back.

[John_Doesnt]

@Logorithim Trump is not the first president to stand up to China. Stop watching Fox News. The first president to negotiate with China was Nixon.

[rjroy3]

You didn't present an argument which to provide an argument in response. You made a personal attack and quite literally got it returned in the same way. Then feigned a slight against your "argument".

You said Conservatives divided the country to its last strands and that Conservatives ain't the good guys.
He responded. Obama did that and that liberal ain't the good guys.

But he's wrong for doing exactly what you did. Don't be a hypocrite.

[John_Doesnt]

@rjroy3 you haven't presented shit as an argument.

[rjroy3]

You're right. I'm pointing out your hypocrisy, which is quite obvious to see by anyone with more than 2 brain cells.

[John_Doesnt]

@rjroy3 how does that prove Trump isn't the worst president in history?

[rjroy3]

You're part of the Dark Side. Won't get me with your wizardry

[TonyBologna25]

We all have the same end goal, and that’s to improve the wellness of our country. Liberals and conservatives simply have a different route in how they want to achieve that. One side is not entirely correct. The left and right balance each other out. The seasons of our country sometimes cal for liberal policy and sometimes call for conservative policy. If you can’t see that, then you’re too far gone to explain any reason into.

[Poormanscomedian]

Liberals want nothing but power. To control everyone's life. They don't give a shit for the country. They do everything they can to undermine the military. Tell the enemy of our troops locations. Tell certain groups when military was going to bomb them so they could get out. Many Democrats told illegals when ICE was coming , so they could get away. They lied on Kavanaugh and knew all that was lies. They have made up all that crap on Trump , never said we are sorry for lying. No, they just make up something else. That is not pro America , that is dividing America , hurting America. I can only hope when Civil War breaks out , they buy it first for causing it.

[Rangers]

I'm independent, but I'd consider myself slightly liberal. My big issue with them is that they don't support gun rights and they don't know a single thing about guns.

[Hypnos0929]

I'm just going to say that no one group is inherently bad. Conservatives and Liberals both have their demons and faults but that's what life is about.

Also you're getting dangerously close to slander with some of those memes

[Anonymous]

I get what you're saying, but always going left or always going right leads to one going around in circles. Moderation for anything is usually a good thing.

[Anonymous]

I can't take anyone who uses memes to make an argument.

[Other_Tommy_Wiseau]

you might as well just leave gag altogether

[Browneye57]

Liberalism is a mental illness.

[Poormanscomedian]

I really think if AOC told them to jump off a cliff and they would live forever in a rain forest , the dumb shits would jump.

[Browneye57]

@Poormanscomedian - Asker is another one of those entitled precious little snowflakes. LOL

Levin was talking about the intelligence level of conservative verses liberal yesterday. The former is short on facts and logic and long on feelings. The latter is more more reasoned, and willing to look at all the factors. Liberals are ideologues, hoping the government can institute utopia. It's unrealistic and all failed logic.

[Poormanscomedian]

Yep, not possible , and yet each generation thinks they are chosen ones that can do it.

[kespethdude]

Your mom is a mental illmess, you little MAGGOT.

[Browneye57]

@kespethdude - Sand in your vagina? ;)

[Anonymous]

I dont agree but you can have your opinion.

[Secretgardenblood]

Good take