Why I Can Never Be Pro-Choice

I'm going to sum this myTake up by saying that I'll be addressing each of my personal roadblocks that prevent me from accepting the Pro-Choice mindset as well as many sayings and slogans I find just... are wrong... or sometimes just absurd. Here we go.

"Pro-choice does not mean Pro-abortion!"

I've seen this one a lot on signs at protests and just as facebook posts with people trying to say they don't support abortion themselves but they think OTHER people should have the right to choose an abortion.

Why do I have a problem with this? Simple... you don't have to want to get an abortion yourself in order to be pro-abortion. Being pro-choice is the same as pro-abortion because it is a matter of supporting legislation that makes abortion easier, more accessible etc. You don't have to want it for yourself but if you're actively supporting legislation that supports abortion you are, in fact, pro-abortion. If you believe abortion is wrong for you but want other people to still have access to abortion you ARE pro-abortion.

Why I Can Never Be Pro-Choice

"It's none of my business"

I recently heard from a formerly pro-life friend that this is part of her reasoning for deciding to be pro-choice. She essentially said it's not her business because it's not her body etc. etc.

My problem:
I believe that, scientifically, a fetus meets all the qualifications of life and that life can be defined as human, moreover a human being that is NOT its mother.

Dictionary.com defines Murder as "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another." If that fetus IS in fact human and IS in fact alive... then I believe it rightfully ought to be considered murder. The only problem being the "unlawful" aspect which it currently is not.

Reasonably speaking and using all strictly scientific definitions for life, abortion is killing a human being and I believe inherently that killing a human being is always wrong, the only exception being if the person has already violated the right to life that I believe all human beings possess.

I believe as a fellow human being it is my duty to preserve human life and protect others. No one can tell me whether or not a woman aborts is none-of-my business any-more than they can tell me stepping in to fight off a rapist was sticking my nose in where it didn't belong. I believe human life is inherently valuable. For this reason it must be preserved and no one... NO ONE... has the right to take it away.

"Banning abortions won't stop abortions, it will only stop safe and legal abortions."

In some ways I agree with this statement... but then the argument could be made that "banning guns won't stop gunmen and violent shootings, only our safety," or "banning murder won't stop murderers it will only stop safe murders," or "banning rape won't stop rapists" etc etc. The point is not to stop abortion completely. It never has been. It's been to acknowledge that abortion is the taking away of a human life without the right to do so. (Agian... the right no human being possess: to take the life of another human being.)

Should abortions be kept to continue allowing them to be held safety? No... in a perfect world there shouldn't be any aborting of babies. But just as laws against rape, murder, drugs, etc, do not stop horrible things, isn't any reason not to ban them or to call them what they are.

"Fetuses are basically just parasites"

My response to this ridiculous statement... SO WHAT?! You were just as much of a parasite at one time and it makes you no less human, heck some people live like parasites when they're 30 years old, they're no less human nor any less alive so this is a ridiculous argument no matter how scientifically accurate some may say it is.

I don't deny that the function of a baby in the womb isn't much different from biological parasites, but then... I'd argue babies remain this way as infants after being born as well requiring another person to care for them up to 24 months in order to have any hope of survival and yes it's still a biological thing. It's been shown that babies cannot survive without human interaction and care even when all their biologically needs have been addressed.

In summary... independence and the necessity of care from another being is not a measuring stick for the validity of life.

"My body my choice"

... Is it though?

Scientifically... No

Scientifically a baby is a separate entity from the mother defined by the unique combined DNA of both parents so no it isn't just your body.

Practically... No

There's a reason people get angry when a pregnant mom knowingly ingests drugs that could harm the baby in the womb or when she drinks alcohol while pregnant or goes skydiving while pregnant... people get upset when pregnant women do dangerous stuff because we know well and good that she has to be responsible for more than just herself.

But it's her body her choice right? No, because it isn't JUST her body and no one ever thinks this way about pregnancy until the matter of abortion is involved.

This video does an excellent job of addressing the "My Body My Choice" slogan and I think it's very worth the watch.

"What about rape and incest victims?"

What about them? I don't deny or doubt that there are women who have gone through horrendous trauma. I don't wish to belittle those women and I get that having a baby that's a constant reminder of their abuser due to resemblance or whatever else. I get that...

What I CAN'T comprehend is how abortion can be looked at as a valid solution. Believe it or not, if you don't want your baby going into foster care, they won't go into foster care. People are put on 5 year waiting lists... TO BE PUT ON WAITING LISTS TO ADOPT CHILDREN. I keep hearing the argument that the kids will all just go into the system. This is simply not true. If you don't want your baby going into the system there are MANY other adoption options including ones that let you meet the potential parents.

To put it simply... there are other options than baby murder. Rape is a horrible thing, no one denies that. Murder is also a horrible thing... so let's stop saying it's justified simply because it's a baby conceived by rape.

Fun Fact:

Only between 0.1 and 0.6% of abortions reported are given the reason of rape and only 0.01% is given the reason of incest. Thus... it seems absurd that we should base an entire law around it.

"Abortion can be a necessary evil if the pregnancy is putting the woman's life in danger."

This is incorrect. It is true that, if the pregnancy is putting the woman's life in danger the pregnancy must be terminated... that DOES NOT MEAN AN ABORTION IS NECESSARY. This would usually result in a Caesarean section being necessary as late term abortions involve procedures that take OVER A WEEK. If the woman's life is in serious danger due to the pregnancy, chances are the danger is immediate enough that an abortion would actually do nothing to help the mother's chances.

Basically... this is just plain not true.

"The baby would just end up in foster-care or be forced to live in poverty."

This is the kicker for me and the main reason I can never bring myself to be pro-choice. The mentality of pro-choice, in every one of its arguments, is that abortion is better than some alternative or other. Whether it be that it's better than the baby being born into poverty, or better than the baby needing to go into foster care, whether the arguments as to how bad foster care are happen to be true or not does not change the fact that these arguments claim it is better for the baby to die than to live a less than perfect life.

It's no one's right to make that choice on behalf of that unborn child. You don't get to say what's better than death because you do NOT know what's going to happen to the child. You might have a pretty good guess, but you don't get to take a life based on what you think will probably happen otherwise especially when "what will happen otherwise" is something like poverty, adoption, or going into the foster care system. That way of thinking communicates one thing to all those who have been adopted, who live in poverty, and who have had to go through the foster care system. This mentality tells all those kids and even adults/teens that "you would have been better off dead."

Further-more... no one knows what death is like... no one has lived to tell the tale shall we say. So you REALLY don't get to pretend you know death is better for the child when you don't even know what death really is.

"You don't get to have an opinion, you're a man."

Finally... the one I foresee composing most of the replies to this myTake. The good old "you're a man you don't get a say."

First off, stop treating men like they shouldn't be held accountable to fatherhood. When you say "you're a man you get no say" or "my body, my choice" you're telling men it's not their responsibility and you're fostering a mentality in men that it's women's responsibility to take care of the kids in whatever way they see fit, men are to have no part in it and are free from all obligations to care for the child.

That doesn't do you any favors and it gives men license not to care about about their kids resulting in a bunch of single mothers who have to scrape to get by or feel as though abortion is their only way out of a tough situation.

Secondly... you don't get to have an opinion, it's not your body. I know it's an old worn-out argument but no matter how long people refuse to listen it remains true. It's not just your body. It's the baby's body and life that are at stake here, NOT YOURS.

Third. You lose all right to an opinion when you start treating babies as less than human and acting with such arrogance as to think you deserve the right to kill your baby because it inconveniences you.

Fourth. When human lives are at stake, human beings are the ones who must stand up to protect and support each other. Men AND women. It's a matter of being human not a matter of whether you've got a vagina or not.

Finally:

To anyone who read this all the way through, thank you. I can only assume this myTake will come off as extremely harsh. I know most people don't agree with my thinking. If you feel personally attacked... that may or may not be a good thing. I don't mean to tell people they are terrible awful vile people for being pro-choice or even for having an abortion. Honestly I think the whole of humanity is just kind of messed up and we don't really value the things we ought to anymore and because of it... we do terrible things to each-other. Thank you again for reading it and I hope you have a blessed day.

Why I Can Never Be Pro-Choice
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Most Helpful Girls

  • AuroraRoseat

    Completely disagree.

    1) No. Pro-choice is advocating for the right of women to have the option to abort, not the desire for women to abort. Two different things.

    2) It is no one's concern aside from the individual carrying the child and (depending on circumstances) the father. I find it very hypocritical how people are willing to insert themselves into other people's lives and decisions but wouldn't want the same to be done to them.

    3) You're using fallacious arguments throughout. While the fetus is developing, it uses the woman as a host. No matter if human life begins at conception, the issue is that the developing fetus is unable to sustain itself out of the womb. It IS her body that the fetus is invading, gaining nutrients from whatever she feeds.

    4) No woman should be forced to go through a pregnancy that she does not desire, I don't care what her reasoning. Adoption centers wouldn't even exist and there would be less children within them if abortion was an option.

    5) You're completely wrong. There are cases in which women must choose their life or their child. Abortion was necessary in those cases. Either way, it is not up for you, me, or anyone else to decide besides that woman.

    6) The last one has appeal to emotion (fallacious argument) all over it. and assumptions The fact of the matter is that the woman is the one going through the ordeal and the man certainly does not have a right to decide what she should do with her own body.

    I disagree.

    • EpicDweeb

      Since you were kind enough to list your objections I shall do my best to reply to them.
      1). The old saying of "if you're not for me, you're against me" is ridiculous and everyone knows it. However, the opposite is very much true. If you do not stand against something you think is wrong, you are inherently supporting it. If you don't want abortions to happen then you should be willing to stand up for their abolition. Standing by while an abuser hurts his wife and child, or standing by while a rapist commits her crimes, when you can stop it, is a form of active support. Thus, being pro-choice is to be pro-abortion even if you think it's none of your business, it doesn't make it any more or less your business. That's what it means for something to be objective.

      2. You believe me to be hypocritical for inserting myself where I do not belong. On the contrary I sincerely hope if I was committing some terrible crime that someone would be willing to step in on my behalf to prevent me from going further in that crime.

      3. It is her body that the fetus is dependent on, but a baby is no less dependent once it leaves the womb. It may be no one's right to leech off another person in such a way but, with the exception of rape as the reason for pregnancy, the woman has made a choice that would cause the baby to come into this world due to the fact that there is ALWAYS a risk of pregnancy no matter what kind of protection you use, thus if it's the woman's choice to allow the baby to begin leeching off of her, it's NOT her choice to take it back and kill the baby. For comparison... this would be like you signing up for a medical procedure you didn't know the details for and you wake up to find they stole your kidney and gave it to a dying woman. Now, they had no right to do that, but you now have no right to take back your kidney by force as it would kill the woman which is a right you will never have. That is what abortion is.

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    • EpicDweeb

      6). Perhaps it is an appeal to emotion but more than that, I intend it as an appeal to humanity, to the inherently human response of disgust or compassion that stems from recognizing the taking of human life and the desire to save it. I agree that men have no right to say what the woman should do with her body. I think men and women both have the responsibility to step in when a life is threatened. You can use your body (your hands and arms) to take a gun and shoot someone but no one is going to allow it if they can stop you. You can use your body to rape a man but no one is going to let you if they can stop you. Everything we do is a decision we make with our bodies, and if that decision is wrong, especially if it hurts others and puts people in danger, all of humanity should have both the right and the obligation to stop you.

    • 1) I've already stated what it is. You cannot believe that abortion is wrong but still believe in the person's right to choose.

      2) It is not your decision to make concerning whether to abort or continue with the pregnancy. Misdirecting what I've said does not change that.

      3) And you would have the women to not have sexual relations or abstain which further limits their choices and body autonomy? No. There are consequences for every action. If she decides to have unprotected sex, the results are pregnancy or no. If she gets pregnant, she should have the choice to abort or continue--she should not be forced through a pregnancy she does not want. It should not be a PUNISHMENT.

      The woman has a choice to decide to end the fetus no matter her reasoning. It could simply be because she finds it distasteful or because of trauma. No matter what her reason, the choice lies with her.

      4) There are consequences to every action. There should also be remedies if possible. Forcing a woman through pregnancy can lead to a myriad of horrible consequences in the future and suffering in the future and also limits her freedom. It is her choice. NO ONE has a right to take that choice from her. She should not be punished for a biological happenstance.

      5) One doctor. I'm sure there is evidence that refutes that doctor. It doesn't matter how many abortions he's performed, his experience does NOT reflect everyone else's.

      6) It's a logical fallacy (one that I tend to make and try to keep from making). If you want to appeal to humanity, why not focus on why there are so many unwanted children, likely from women who weren't able to get abortions and are suffering in America? How about how poverty majorly affects women and children? How about the good quality of life many don't receive? Is suffering while being alive better than not being born at all? These are questions that can't be answered objectively and shouldn't even be used in logical discourse.

  • DizzyDesii

    So glad you called out prochoice for being proabortion 👏😌
    And glad you see it as your business to say something 🙌😌
    My body, my choice... Nah its Gods body and he can end yours in a heartbeat like you tried to end that babies before it had a heartbeat 🙄
    Finally someone else acknowledges adoption as an option instead of abortion 🙏
    Yes we all live less than perfect lives. people need to ztop makin excuses 🤷👏
    People forget that they wouldn't be pregnant without the man so of course he needs a say (even if he'll sadly be ignored) 🙈
    But this is ome of the best mytakes i read in a while. 99% same mindset 🙌
    Im about to get a lot of downvotes and idc. I just dont have time for people to come at me with arguments. Hoes you will be blocked so stay back cause i'd hate to be your mext topic of disxussion as to why i blocked you for no reason 😁😘

    • EpicDweeb

      Thank you so much for the support :) I wasn't exactly sure what the response was gonna look like, but this is encouraging as a first reply xD Thanks Dizzy!

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    • EpicDweeb

      Yep, but they're balanced with the upvotes so at least there's that xD

    • DizzyDesii

      Thanks for mho

Most Helpful Guys

  • -Asca-

    I am "pro-choice" but I actually agree with you on most points. I don't understand most of these arguments, like being about women's choice or that it is none of your business.

    The entire debate really just comes down to wether fetuses are truly "alive" and have anything to lose. In other words: Is it bad for the fetus if it is aborted?

    But I think fetuses are, while alive, not really worth saving. They are somewhat comparable to plants. A tree doesn't care if it is cut down. Of course it is genetically designed to build defenses against its enemies, but "dying" is neither painful nor a loss for a tree.

    In a perfect world there are no abortions. But in a perfect world there are no unwanted children either.

    • EpicDweeb

      This is why part of my argument was to try and counter the mentality that babies who aren't aborted would just go in the foster care system. There are plenty of adopting parents who struggle to find children to adopt because no one is giving their kids up for adoption. There are people to want those kids. They don't need to be killed.

      My thinking in terms of fetuses is this. I'm a Christian and believe that each human life, each baby inside the womb or outside, is made in the image of the God who created the universe. Thus, while all life is precious, human life is priceless. More than that, I believe the Bible says it's a personal offence against the God of the universe to harm another human being. (It'd be like throwing darts at a picture of your boss).

      That being said I know a lot of people don't believe that. So I wholeheartedly agree with you. I think the issue is that people aren't making the argument what it needs to be. The argument shouldn't be on whether or not the fetus is alive. The argument should be on whether or not there's ever a justification for taking the life of a human being and what that may or may not be.

  • Holistic

    Hey, I'm pro-choice but it's good to see some educated points from the other side as well. I feel like the arguments about "my body my choice" and "none of my business" are way too overused in many topics and it's good that you addressed those. I'm really tired of people arguing for certain things with the notion that as long as it doesn't affect them, they don't care. This is quite hypocritical on their part because a lot of their points are about caring for others, but their arguments are rather the opposite.

    • Holistic

      Furthermore, arguments about men not having the right to have a say in abortion undermines the role of a father in society. Because the mother physically gives birth, she's prioritized and is the more important parent? nah.

    • EpicDweeb

      I sincerely appreciate it and I wholeheartedly agree when it comes to the issue of undermining fatherhood in society.

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What Girls & Guys Said

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  • curiousnorway

    Agree. I've also written a MyTake about it quite similar as yours.
    Why I'm Pro-Life & My Answers To Pro-Choice Arguments ↗

  • JustJen

    A fetus is NOT a separate entity from the mother as it is in fact parasitical. So, even if you think of a fetus as a human being, nobody has the right to parasitically live off of any other human being. Thus it can morally be stopped from doing that, even if it means terminating it. Besides, who are you to say what others can or cannot do?

    • EpicDweeb

      I am no one to say what others can or cannot do. But, just as police officers do not make the law but enforce it: I believe God has said thou shalt not commit murder and that God recognizes babies in the womb as real human children that you have no right to kill thus I want to warn people away from breaking the law of a God whose judgement they cannot hope to escape without Christ.

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    • "A fetus is NOT a separate entity from the mother as it is in fact parasitical." WTF? ALL parasites are separate entities from their hosts. In fact, most of them are another SPECIES...

    • betaTester

      @UndeadWyvern A fetus, is a quasi human. In case of rape it can be considered a form of same species parasite, because it was put inside your body without your consent. Try this, suppose technology is developed enough that a group of scientists can create an artificial womb, they kidnap you the 18 year old virgin gamer, plant this embryo and the womb inside your ass by repeatedly penetrating it, then they tell you it's only morally right to give birth through your anus or the unborn baby will be killed :)) Note that there is no shortage of new born babies in the world, so it's not to keep the species going, they just do it because they enjoy putting embryo inside men's asses, it gives them pleasure. Now you can proudly say that you're not a genetic dead end because you can give birth.

  • Inneedofusername

    I really hope that you are also for the law that forces people to give their kidneys for transplantation when they can save someone's life. Otherwise you would be a hypocrite

    • EpicDweeb

      There's a difference between not being willing to save a life and actively choosing to take it. That being said, I think it's ridiculous that people have any say over what happens to their organs once they die.

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    • EpicDweeb

      @Wonderer89 The drop bears are strong with this one.

    • Wonderer89

      Oath

  • Alwaysthinking14

    I don’t think we give 3 shits about why. The fact is that when your 13 year old daughter tells you she was raped and is now pregnant. Your going to be the one searching for a clinic to take that out. Especially when the detective informs you that if you press charges a DNA test will be done and then legally your daughter will have to see her rapest for the rest of her life and your grandchild will be spending time with the man that rapped her mommy.

    • EpicDweeb

      ... It's that vs. committing murder. One is a hard thing to live with, the other is a hard thing to die with.

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    • EpicDweeb

      Indeed, though likely I will not be on this website at that time so apologies for my probable lack of ability to update you.

    • I’ll probably be dead so no hard feelings... ;-)

  • over_it

    This is one of the most ignorant things I HAVE EVER READ oh lord save us all if this is the kind of people on this website. 😂😂

    • EpicDweeb

      If you believe me to be ignorant show me what sources I ought to be looking at that would teach me where I am at fault.

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    • over_it

      ... would not be able to access abortion.

      About the woman who was raped by a friend who wanted to “make sure she got home safely”. She would not be able to access abortion.

      About the woman who has PCOS so only has periods every 3-4 months and can’t find a birth control that works for her. She would not be able to access abortion.

      About the woman whose abusive partner removed the condom without telling her (it’s called stealthing, and it happens more frequently than you’d think). She would not be able to access abortion.

      About the woman with the cornual ectopic pregnancy that isn’t reliably in the uterus, and could grow to a size that will kill her. She would not be able to access abortion.

      About the woman who has two kids she can barely feed already, and whose birth control just increased in price. She would not be able to access abortion.

      About the 18 year old who just started college and is going to be the first graduate of the family if she can just stay in school. She would not be able to access abortion.

      About the woman whose IUD slipped slightly and is now endangering both her and the pregnancy it was designed to prevent. She would not be able to access abortion.

      About the many, many, many women who just don’t want to be pregnant for reasons that are their own. Health issues, abusive relationships, financial issues, social issues. They would not be able to access abortion.

      Some of these might sound like reasonable exceptions to you. And you would be correct. But no one should get to decide what happens with another person’s body, not even to save a life. You need written permission from a corpse before life saving organs can be taken from them. You cannot be forced to donate blood, no matter how dire the situation. And no one else should get to decide what a woman does with her body, end of story.

      But it’s not the end of the story, is it? Because here’s the kicker: if you consider abortion to be a murder (and some people genuinely believe that!)

    • over_it

      ... then miscarriage can be second degree murder. And this is already happening all over the world - El Salvador, Ecuador, and the US of A. Women are being jailed for miscarriages and stillbirths because they might have done something to cause it. If you start down this path of jailing women and doctors for making healthcare decisions that affect no one but themselves, then you get women who don’t go to a doctor for a safe procedure and instead order pills online or use whatever metal instruments they can find to end their own pregnancies. Women who are honestly experiencing a miscarriage (which is medically called a spontaneous abortion, just fyi) will not go to their doctor for help. They will bleed out on their bathroom floors or die of septic shock. And I haven’t even talked about how this will disproportionately affect women of color, LGBTQA+ women, or trans men. This isn’t about the “sanctity of life” anymore. It’s about controlling women.”

  • UndeadWyvern

    I can't believe that the women here are considering fetuses as parasites... Dehumanizing the act of procreation... I hate religion but even more so people like some of the women here who will strip the humanity out of something like giving birth in the name of rights and calling the fetus a parasite... the right to have sex also comes with the responsibility of raising a child... thats why people under 18 or 17 are not allowed to have sex even if they are capable of it... Procreation is the reason why humans are able to have sex... its the reason why semen shoots out of a penis and why women menstruate... I can understand aborting a pregnancy if there is a significant threat to the life of the mother. Anything else is just inhuman and unnatural as murder. If women do really have a choice over this, then i dont understand why a baby shouldn't be killed even if its born, after all, it has to be fed mothers milk for healthy growth, which has to drunk from the breasts of a woman. I really can't understand the difference. After all, the process of giving birth is one of the most painful experiences a human can experience, why should a girl walk through that just because she had sex? Its much easier on her if she just aborted.

    • over_it

      none is dehumanizing the act of procreation, but when the fetus is a tiny little embryo in the body THAT is not a human, it has no thoughts, no feelings, and yet it has more rights than the woman carrying it. So you're not totally understanding it.

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    • @over_it oh it soon passes over the "tiny little embryo" stage and starts developing organs and starts forming limbs. Then what? A person who is comatose is also of a similar stage, cannot think, lack feelings...

    • @JustJen I know that. Everyone knows that. Even if i didn't i could google it in a moment and be as informed about it as anyone else so stop nitpicking and stop trying to prove im lacking a brain or whatever and stay on the topic.

  • MzAsh

    It all comes down to who gets to control a woman’s pregnancy. The answer is no one but her. No one said you have to like it. If you don’t like it, then don’t like it. Your approval isn’t required.

    • EpicDweeb

      Ma'am this has nothing to do with controlling the pregnancy. It's a matter of the woman being pregnant and deciding she doesn't want to be pregnant and thus KILLING HER BABY. My point is that there is not a single valid reason why abortion should be the go-to option for anyone. I don't want to control her pregnancy, I don't think pregnancies need to be controlled. I think abortion is basically the opposite of pregnancy. SO... in so-far as control means the same thing as shut down completely (like with gun rights) I'd agree it's a matter of control over a woman's pregnancy.

      The problem is it's never okay.

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    • I gotta agree with MzAsh here. Science only said that it is a living thing but it is people like pro-life who wanna make a straw man argument about it saying it is a human life when science said nothing about it. Because if that were true then that would also make sperms and eggs a human life. But before you say it is different, consider a fetus and the baby different as well.

    • blythely

      It all comes down to who tries to control the duration of new human life

  • kelsey_disney

    Okay fuck you 🖕🏻🖕🏻 You have NO opinion on this matter since you’re a guy. You don’t control women’s bodies. So why tf should you have an opinion?

    • EpicDweeb

      Because human lives are at stake and I'm a human being.

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    • blythely

      I'm done conversing with you, Magical Thinker

    • over_it

      @blythely you're done because you don't have a comeback, because you know i'm right lol, nice try bud, there's always next time

  • taleswapper

    you're a sociopath, aren't you? Or maybe a psychopath. you obviously lack any empathy, since you've completely discounted the feelings of the MOTHER in all of this.
    Here's the thing. Pregnancy does real, immediate, and measurable harm to the mother. Every single day. I think God that there are enough women sufficiently deluded to undergo this and maintain the population anyway, but I don't fail to recognise this inescapable biological fact.

    The unborn are NOT innocent. any more than a tapeworm is innocent, or a virus is innocent. Neither the tapeworm nor the virus have volition, either; should we ban medical practices that kill them, too?

    Pregnancy can KILL. Every day, on this Earth, women die from problem pregnancies. Every Single Day. Some of them chose that risk, and desperately want the baby. Others did NOT choose. Until humans can turn on and off their fertility, at will, your argument is morally bankrupt. You want to use the point of a gun to force women to undergo all the risks, the harm, the pain of being pregnant, no matter what. To me, that makes you worse than a rapist. At least that's over fairly quickly. You want to stretch her violation out over MONTHS, every hour of the day, day in and day out. Why? So you can claim the moral high ground, and say "Yeah! I helped save a life! And all I had to do was prevent a woman from getting a medical procedure and suffer untold harm, the daily violation of her body, and maybe death!" Frankly, you sicken me with that attitude.

    • "you're a sociopath" says the person arguing murdering unborn children should be legal

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    • EpicDweeb

      May God bless you.

    • @Melshmallow046 No, it doesn't. But you're young enough that the error is thought is understandable.

  • GraveDoll

    so tired of this topic and people in general

    (I just skim read as it something that is not brand new)

    thumb down me all you want. So what? is that someone how going to make you feel better.
    I hope so

    • I am tired of the topic too. I just wish people would stop trying to demonize each other and work on compromises. This helps no one.

    • EpicDweeb

      @RolandCuthbert @GraveDoll I do not intend to demonize anyone for what it's worth. I've simply been dealing with a lot of personal thoughts on the matter and kept coming into conflict with people. I felt like voicing my reasonings here as that is the point of the website.

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  • HayleyMarie

    When a fetus is 6 weeks old, it had developed its heart, but not its brain.
    If a person is on life support, they are most likely brain dead, but their heart is still beating. There is usually someone that is legally obligated to make the decision to pull the plug. So if someone can legally take someone off life support, why can’t a mother abort?

    • That is a good ass point. Nice

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    • Tadpoles come from eggs, where they are hatched. It would be more accurate to compare a fetus to a tadpole egg.

    • EpicDweeb

      Not really, the egg would be the literal egg before it's been fertilized by the sperm.

  • Melshmallow046

    I agree completely, especially about rape. (If it's not okay to kill a 10 year old child who was conceived by rape, why is it okay to kill the child in the womb?). Pretty much all of the arguments surrounding abortion all hinge on whether or not you believe an unborn baby is fully human, so a lot of the debates are pointless, because people aren't talking about the core issue.

    • "If it's not okay to kill a 10 year old child who was conceived by rape, why is it okay to kill the child in the womb?" Because the child in the womb is STILL causing real, immediate, measurable harm to the mother; the 10 year old is not. If someone stabs you to get at your liver for a transplant, do you say "Oh well, as long as I'm bleeding, let's harvest that liver while we're here!"?

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    • "If giving birth would likely result in the death of the mother and child, then an abortion can be justified. If the mother can give birth with little to no risk, then there is no moral argument to justify it if you believe the child is a living human being." This is a claim, not a conclusion. Sorry; but you'll have to do better.

    • "As I've said (and you don't have to take my word for it) late term abortions are a week long+ procedure. " Yeah, I've been ignoring this, because it's absolute rubbish. It doesn't take a week. It takes less than an an hour, once you're on the table. So any argument based on this pseudo-fact is nonsense.

  • mistixs

    I only tolerate anti-choicers if they believe men should be equally held accountable for the pregnancy.
    Which is to say that, as per the cost of surrogacy, the woman is contributing $50,000 worth of value to the pregnancy. Therefore the father must likewise be obligated to contribute $50,000, whether by paying the medical bills, paying for the food needed by the mother and baby, etc.

    • EpicDweeb

      Of course I think men should be held responsible. I think the argument of "you're a man you get no say" is ridiculous for the very reason of it taking responsibility off of the man. If the man has no say he has no responsibility. (At the very least that's the thinking that's promoted).

  • Aiko_E_Lara

    Making laws for abortion just interfere's with people's view. I don't view fetus as humans so does sperm and egg cells so I wouldn't say it's killing but rather shedding or discarding. But saying those are humans, well those are your views. I don't like sex being taken for granted not because I'm concerned for the fetus but for the mother's health but I still give them choice to abort with their own consequences. Pro lifes want every baby to be born, but they don't care if that baby is going to be an orphan all their childhood, or if the baby is going to suffer malnutrition, or if the baby has no medical insurance and end sick and dies or if the baby is going to grow up feeling unwanted, develop depression and suicide. They want all babies but they are not going to take care of them. If they really cared that much they would offer themselves to take care of every unwanted kid of people who are going to abort. The funny thing is that many pro life aren't that pro life when it comes to death penalty. So what you called "murderer" is wrong except when it's justified. "But where's the justice in that? The baby didn't do anything" Yeah the baby didn't do anything that she have to keep it either. I can also say, the baby didn't do anything except for the fact that it's inside the mother causing her pain and can cause her a lot later on in life so I'm a pro choice because I'm concerned about the mother, the child (Who's gonna suffer as a human being later on), the husband, the family and the government. Kids not taken care of properly can go violent and be suicidal which is a very big issue to society and last I check, Earth has over 7.5 billion people polluting the world.

    • So the point here is those are your opinion. Scientists only say that a fetus is a living things however this people like you believe they are human beings. They don't even have social image, reputation and can't even talk, think or say anything like what humans do because if they do, they should have certificates, citizenship, reputation, and you official records and even a name anywhere in the world.

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    • Specifically Jesus Christ. A deist believes in a god with no specification. They believe god created the universe who left all of us however I don't.

    • Still calling myself a christian weather you like it or not. I'm wrong in your opinion. Deists wouldn't also consider me as a deist if that's my belief while also say I'm wrong if believe in Jesus. All being judgmental but I know Jesus isn't like that.

  • jss123

    I disagree with you on the rape and incest abortions. If my 12 year old sister got raped I'd support her abortion all the way.
    it's completely disgusting to expect her to have the baby. The psychological effects will be huge for her to be constantly reminded she was raped by carrying his child... The child will also eventually have to be told she was born as a result of a rape... No no no.

    • EpicDweeb

      So it is better for the baby to die than to live as one conceived by rape? Is that any worse than finding out your father was a murderer or became one after you were born? It is difficult on the child but to consider that a valid death sentence seems horrendous. Don't get me wrong, I don't wish to belittle how serious of an issue rape is or its affects on its victims. I don't want its victims becoming murderers because of it though. No matter what trauma you experience I cannot believe it gives you the right to murder.

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    • EpicDweeb

      @over_it I am so sorry for you.

    • over_it

      your name is literally EpicDweeb how the hell are people supposed to take you seriously? You literally have no right to control what a women does with her body, even though you think you do. And you call yourself an epic dweeb so even more so you have nothing on women who want to make their own decisions.

  • sageevalentine

    I find this discussion hard. I will never need abortion because I have money, and I would never take and dumb risks. Women that get pregnant by accident is a mystery to me, I don't understand stories about women who didn't realise they were pregnant.

    But I could never condemn abortion. My mother was suffering from life threatening morning sickness when she was pregnant with my little brother and sister. The doctors told her, either you and the foetus die, or just the foetus dies. My dad helped her make her choice, and she had the abortion and lived. Do you think she doesn't ever feel sad about it. My mother feels guilt and sadness at being alive. Anytime anything anti abortion comes on the tv, I want to turn it off because I feel so terrible for the situation my mother was put in. Similarly, imagine if you were a homeless woman, living on the streets, raped by a drunk man, and the baby you have is going to know a life of homelessness.

    I don't know. I really don't know. And the whole situation makes me so emotional I could cry. If I was ever in such a situation I could cry myself to sleep every night, I couldn't do it. Everyone has such individual circumstances that I couldn't really have an opinion until I've ever been in the situation myself. I don't think abortion is murder, but even if the foetus is not scientifically alive, you have already formed an unbreakable bond with it inside you. Having the strength to go through with that decision on my mother's part astounds me. I'm so glad she's alive.

    Thinking about abortion makes me feel sad. I don't even want to think about the physical or mental states a women must come to in order to reach the decision, I know that my mother almost died. Similarly I find it hard to believe that woman could ever be as careless as some are when it comes to abortion. It's so sad. Ultimately I'm glad I live in a country where it is legal (UK) because it means that we don't have to talk about it much, and it means my mother is alive and well.

    I know I have concluded to nothing throughout this whole comment. I feel very conflicted. The only one thing I can say is that the decision is most certainly up to the mother and father of that child. Not the man's choice. Not the woman's choice. Not the government's choice.

  • Ellie-V

    Read the whole thing. I’m still pro choice. Nothing will change my mind like nothing will change your mind. I didn’t think your take was harsh.
    It was a nice read. Thank you for sharing ☺️💕

    • EpicDweeb

      I sincerely appreciate your civility. Thank you for taking the time to read the whole thing =) <3

    • Ellie-V

      No problem ☺️ you have great counter arguments.

  • Ámayas_20

    I completely agree with everything you've said and I'm so glad you're standing up and saying it!

    Also though a unborn baby doesn't even meet the standards of a parasite, not that it would matter if they did.

    • Celtero

      If we're being honest a fetus is a parasite but so is an infant and even children.

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    • Celtero

      I mean... adults can be parasites too.

      Point is, being a parasite isn't grounds for murdering a human.

      If that logic was valid then we should kill all the bums, or everyone on welfare...

    • Ámayas_20

      @Celtero You're speaking metaphorically not correctly.

  • Shuri

    This is the most misinformed thing I've read on abortion on this site. Your first point doesn't even make sense. Pro-abortion means you are for women having abortions whenever and wherever, but that's not really the case. I consider myself pro-choice because I just don't think it's any of my business what you choose to do with your body. I would HOPE you would not have an abortion, but I know a few women who agonized over the decision for weeks. Some ultimately got one, some didn't, but they at least had the option.

    Also, the foster care thing is a real issue. I'm a teacher, and I've had kids bounced in and out of the school system due to foster care. I only had two students who were in foster care later in life instead of early on at birth. But the system is so full that kids are being moved to different states because system is too full of kids no one wants. With Trump making it harder for gays to adopt, that eliminates potential homes for these kids. These women that would have picked abortion are not going to keep their kids whether you like it or not. Adoption sounds grand and all but that's only if you're one of the rare kids that gets adopted.

    And you don't have a say. Not necessarily because you're a man, but because it's not your body and therefore not your business. You don't have to carry another thing inside you for 9 months while simultaneously destroying your body. I'm not going to interfere in someone else's life choices.

    And I'm sorry, but rape and incest should absolutely no matter what be an exception. I'm not for abortion being used as birth control (which most women do not do that because that can really mess up your uterus and potential for children in the future) but it's not right that a man can have his way with you and then you have to deal with it both mentally and physically. I'm not destroying my body for something I didn't even try for nor want. Fuck that rapist. If I have to carry his kid then he should have to be castrated.

    • Couldn’t have said it better myself. Not to mention, that a woman in Alabama who was raped and impregnated would get a longer sentence for having an abortion than her rapist.

  • differentpixel

    If there were more comprehensive sex education (schools and organizations such as Planned Parenthood) and better availability of contraceptives, perhaps there wouldn't be the high rate of unwanted pregnancies that there is in the US?

    • EpicDweeb

      Perhaps so. But why should we be okay with there being ANY if, as I think science itself shows, abortion is the murder of human babies?

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    • *defunding

    • EpicDweeb

      While I AM Christian you'd be completely incorrect in thinking I'm against reforming sex education to explain it better. However... Yes it's my belief. But more specifically, my belief is that it's OBJECTIVELY true. You can disagree but it won't make it any more or less true. Which... of course is where the conflict lies.

  • orangecherry

    I can't be pro-choice either. I disappointed my mom because she fought for women's rights in the 60s. But I can't go along with abortion, I just can't.

    • EpicDweeb

      I understand, I've got friends who are probably somewhat appalled by my stance but yeah. by the way while I haven't had orange cherries Rainier Cherries are delicious and amazing and you should try them some time =3

    • I will look for them !

    • EpicDweeb

      They also don't stain because the juice is mostly clear. (They look pale yellow with streaks of red).

  • Royalsarcasist

    Look it’s harder to understand when it’s never going to happen to you. And it must be hard to not feel in control of a mother of your kid could just decide to have an abortion if she wants. But the cards were dealt that way, we have to have that burden. If I could change my gender from birth knowing all I do now, I would gladly be a man.

  • Mon_160909

    Another men trying to decide what is best for a woman’s body...

    • EpicDweeb

      With all due respect, I don't care what happens to the woman's body outside her dying. If her life is at stake then most certainly I care but then abortion wouldn't be the solution a pregnancy being life threatening in the first place. I care about the baby's body and the fact that you don't have the right to take its life even if you are the one pregnant.

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    • Mon_160909

      You don’t get to decide what a woman should do with their body, specially if you are not going to take care about the baby or if you are not going to maintain the baby for the next 18 years.

    • EpicDweeb

      I fully intend to adopt as many kids as I am able. No I can't adopt all of them but I would call as many as are able to adopt and care for the children of mothers who couldn't keep them or didn't want them to show them they are still loved and show them that they can live good lives despite whatever places they may have come from.

      And... I believe a baby is no less a baby at any stage of pregnancy. Even if I didn't, it's still the law that a woman can legally have an abortion up til the day of delivery due to roe v wade and the health clause therein contained which essentially says a baby may be aborted for any reason pertaining to the woman's health (including economic, emotional, physical, and SOCIAL health). If it would marginally inconvenience her in any way a woman is considered to have the right to an abortion at any stage of pregnancy and that's not okay.

  • MarketData

    It still seems to me you're conflating pro-choice with pro-abortion, which I find wrong and offensive. But that's okay, you're entitled to your opinion. What you're not entitled to do is force your own opinions on other people.

    • EpicDweeb

      I have no power to force my opinions on other people, only the right to state what I believe and hope to see it convict people of their crimes if they are guilty so that they might repent and seek forgiveness.

  • Massageman

    You are right on the nose: great take! Your logic is inescapable, well-rendered and clear.

    As for "murder" of the unborn baby--- if someone takes the lives of a pregnant baby and her unborn baby, that individual is charged with a DOUBLE homicide. case closed.

    Thanks again for a great take.

  • Anpu23

    No, scientifically a fetus is not a separate thing. It's an organ, not a separate life. This idea that it's a viable being is not scientific, it's not even logical.

    The truth is that the only argument against abortion is religious, and even the Bible states that a fetus isn't a living thing. (Biblically life starts with the first breath).

    Outlawing abortion is a bad move, it's bad socially (look at the data put forth in Freakonomics) it's bad medically, and its bad morally.

  • MackToday

    I would not say a fertilized egg or fetus meets the criteria of human given the thing lacks a brain to even be conscious or have a person inside it. Abortion is already illegal after so long a time. I'm very pro choice / pro abortion. Especially with regard to genetic defects.

  • Factshurt90

    Your opinion on what happens to a woman’s body is irrelevant. Give birth then have an opinion.

    • Tanisha69

      there's a hundred women at my church and we are all against abortion hon

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    • Ámayas_20

      You do realise more women statistically are pro life than men?

    • I honestly don’t give a fuck. Mind your own uterus

  • Phanta

    Good My Take. I myself have made a My Take on the abortion issue. It is titled: If Unborn Babies Could Talk...…………...

  • marish01

    Pro choice is pro abortion. As they support the choice of abortion. Just like supporting gay marriage means being pro gay marriage.
    They support the choice of abortion. Hence they are pro abortion.
    We support the choice of keeping the baby. Hence we are against abortion.

  • alvincasey

    I read your my take from beginning to end and I'm still pro choice. I am not pro abortion. I wish nobody ever needed or wanted one. That is not the world we live in and it never has been.

    I want Planned Parenthood to exist and for everyone to have access. They provide necessary medical care for STDs and most importantly contraceptives.
    There will be some women that need an abortion, and for them I want them to be able to have it done safely from qualified medical staff. The morality of this decision is between her and God. If she was wrong, God will handle it. It's no place for the government or evangelical wackos.

    I hope you understand that women don't freely advertise they've had an abortion. More women than you think have had one. Most likely there is a woman you know that has had one and your just unaware of it.

    "Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare"~President Clinton 1993 State of the Union

    • EpicDweeb

      I cannot agree because I believe God himself has called it a crime. It is the harming of one who bares the image of God thus making it a personal offence before him. I say by this logic the morality of any decision is between a person and God, but no less are we to legislate morality. Murder is illegal, rape is illegal why? Because we have a responsibility to protect and preserve life. Those actions are no less are those actions between a person and God yet we have an obligation to prevent them. At least this is my perspective on it.

      I am well aware that women don't advertise abortion and yes I'm sure I've met a woman who has an abortion apart from my knowledge. That does not make her crime any less real, nor does it make me love her as a person any less. I don't believe there is a woman alive who truly needs an abortion at least not to survive which is the only argument I would see as justification for taking another human life. Taking a human life to preserve one is the only argument I can ever accept and, according to abortion doctors themselves, it's not necessary to preserve life. (terminate the abortion yes, but in the form of a c section).

  • Xlink

    Just have the baby and throw it at the adoption foster home. it won't get adopted be passed around for 16 years maybe touched on by on of the homes or kids there. And become mentally messed up and commit a crime like drug use or something go to jail and get death sentence

  • CikiCiks

    @EpicDweeb Hey, I'm new to this forum, but I came across this thread and goodness, I'm so happy I did. Your ideas are put across clearly, with basis in scientific fact AND religion. Your replies are respectful and informed, no matter what nasty comments have been thrown your way. You've put it all perfectly. Keep sticking up for every baby that has been brutally murdered under the pretext of getting rid of a useless mass of cells. We (people with an ounce of humanity, religious or not) stand behind you.

  • SnoodlePoodle

    Great take. I very much agree with your points. Bless you for saying it and bless you for standing up.

  • Caunsos

    first "pro-choice dose not mean pro- abortion" mostly mean we are out there telling people to have abortions. Making abortions illegal will lead them to happen in unclean room increasing risk of infection, loss of fertility, and even death. And never heard the argument "fetuses are basically just parasites" pretty sure this a strawman propped up by pro lifers. It is her body and it is her choice both scientically and practically.

    Also you don't get an opinion not because you're man but because you are not a ob/gyn, woman or had an abortion effect your life. Because you are non of these thing adding voice to the conversation dose nothing forced you own morality on to conversation with no justification other that " i think it is bad" and this ethical absolution lead to nothing but unnecessary suffering.

    • EpicDweeb

      My friend, look through the comments below and you will see the "a fetus is basically just a parasite" over and over again. I didn't make it up I addressed it because I was frustrated by multiple recent conversations in which people made this claim.

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    • EpicDweeb

      The first comment by taleswapper compared a fetus to a tapeworm JustJen said "A fetus is NOT a separate entity from the mother as it is in fact parasitical." Celtero claimed in his reply to Amayaz_20 that a fetus was nothing more than a parasite and I've heard this repeated on multiple facebook conversations. If you would like I can send you the screenshots from those conversations.

    • EpicDweeb

      I don't rightly know what you mean by "has abortion ever affected you personally?" I don't know if it counts, but I've seen my youngest and eldest sisters both go through traumatic grief at the death of their unborn children. The babies were no older than any other 1st or 2nd trimester abortion but the effect was still clear. My mom too has experienced not 1 but 4 miscarriages and while only one of them took place after my birth I've witnessed many times the overwhelming grief of mothers who lost their babies before they could even hold them. The babies died... that's why it was a miscarriage. If the baby is considered to have died in that kind of miscarriage then it is no less a baby dying when it's through a purposeful abortion. Yes I have seen the effects of abortion and in a way have been personally affected by it. I haven't gotten a girl pregnant to where she felt the need to abort the baby and I'm not a trans male who has experienced pregnancy and abortion myself. But that doesn't mean the effect of a baby lost before birth has been felt by me any less.

  • Pejtu

    I do approve abortions i got no problem with that if u wanna do it do it
    If u wanna keep it keep it i dont care its ur child who did you let cum inside you i dont give a F

  • hugzy

    how dare you impose your personal point of view on to others and prevent them from having the right of choice... you are aware that even if pro choice is acceptable everywhere, there are still criteria for to be applicable for an abortion... also , how many are the cases of young girls losing their fertility because of an illegal practitioners ... what exactly is your concern anyway?

    • EpicDweeb

      For the record... There is only one criteria a woman to get an abortion in the United States. Due to Roe vs. Wade, the mother can have an abortion at any time up to the day of delivery if she has a "health" excuse. The specific word "health" is not defined in that case thus it is given a very broad definition. The broad definition is that it can refer to a woman's physical health, her emotional health, her ECONOMIC health, or her SOCIAL HEALTH. And, because no clarification is made as to how badly the pregnancy has to hinder her health, a woman can, up to the date of delivery, get an abortion for any mild inconvenience that falls into one of those four categories.

      Did you read the title of this myTake? I'm not imposing my personal point of view on anyone, I'm simply stating what that point of view is and defending my reasons to anyone who comments on the post. I'm not telling anyone "you have to become pro-life." I'm simply telling them what I believe as someone who is pro-life. I also have no means by which to prevent anyone from having the right to choose, as there are no politicians I can currently vote for or bills I can vote in support of that would have any effect on this situation. Thus... I've done nothing you claim that I have done.

      My concern, for the record, is that killing babies, inside the womb or outside, is murder of a living human being (not the mother) who only has one right... the life not to have its life taken away. It is a right we are constantly violating and we are treating human life as worthless. My concern is the protection of human life. It's as simple as that.

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    • hugzy

      why? will not be surprised if you consider masturbation as an genocide...

    • hugzy

      also , are you religious? That will explain your point of view.

  • LeeKenz

    This is full of ignorance and I wouldn't be surprised if you were from Alabama.

    At 16 I was raped by a 22 year old and ended up getting pregnant and I ended up getting an abortion for the simple fact I was too young and I could care for a child, let alone bring a child caused by rape.

    Did I feel good about it? Hell no. But I knew I couldn't give the child a good life being a child myself. And sure adoption, great. No. After giving birth you have that connection and those feelings that I'd feel worse for giving the child up.

  • madgoat

    Being pro choice implies abortion but that you may have mixed feelings about it.
    But if you're not pro abortion (and pro choice) , should we take it to mean you feel there's something wrong with abortion?

  • Grond21

    THANK YOU! This took a lot of courage to say, and it needed to be said

  • Tanisha69

    To me that's a baby, I don't care what anyone says. I don't approve of abortion at all. It's a tiny baby inside me thats my opinion

  • Other_Tommy_Wiseau
  • yourfavperson

    this is the dumbest thing I've ever read. full of ignorance and discrimination. ur username is very fitting.

  • Gedaria

    You are entitled to your opinion. This one is a very emotive. Listening to people there seems no correct answer...

  • up_64

    We need a week long ban on abortion takes and questions so both sides can shut the fuck up Jezzz. Whatever your opinion express it in the elections.

  • zagor

    Why I could never be Anti-Choice:

    Because it's not my fucking body!!!

  • blythely

    No. You're anti-conception. And when you fail at that you resort to Genocide.

  • Piteka5

    Just remember, men can't have a say in this because it's not our body, so only people with guns should make gun laws, just sayin

  • IKissedAGirl

    I was agreeing up until the incest and rape portion. 🤮 If I was ever raped and impregnated, especially by a family member, bye bye baby

    • what if the baby is born before you could abort safely, would you still kill it? Oh i suppose not... by then you would've seen the baby and wouldn't want to kill it, Its much easier if you are drugged and the doctor does it for you and you wouldn't have to see a thing... If everything that happens to your body is your own choice then suicides woulve been legal... I dont understand how it will improve the mental condition of a rape victim if the pregnancy is terminated... is there any scientific basis to that? or does it hurt the mental health of a rape victim if the baby is allowed to be born...

    • @UndeadWyvern "what if the baby is born before you could abort safely, would you still kill it?" No, because the baby is no longer doing harm after it's born. Before that, it is. this isn't rocket science.

      "I dont understand how it will improve the mental condition of a rape victim if the pregnancy is terminated... is there any scientific basis to that" Yes, there is. Being pregnant is debilitating and usually painful; ask any pregnant woman you see. So terminating the pregnancy stops both the pain and the debilitation. How is this hard to understand?

  • genericname85

    why is there only "choice" or "ban"... have it regulated ffs.

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