Why do Americans honor the Confederate Flag, a flag representing treason and pro-slavery ideals, if they are so Patriotic?

[Anonymous]

I never understood this about Americans. I see so many of them get mad about a football player kneeling during the anthem but want to glorify a flag that literally stands for a treasonous union that believed black people were not equal. They literally tried to leave the US so they can continue to oppress black people and because they did not like that the north opposed slavery. Yes, it caused a war that led to the freedom of slaves (which was only done as a war tactic) but slaves were most likely going to be freed either way since Lincoln was anti-slavery.

Like... why? I don't understand. I need an American to explain it to me. You guys just seem very hypocritical to the point ignorance. I don't get how you can honor the current flag and a treasonous flag but then get your panties in a bunch when a football player kneels in front of a flag because he doesn't like how black people in his country are treated.

Because we changed the meaning to southern pride.

I don't honor it like that, and I agree with you.

I literally never thought of that before.

[curiousnorway]

The flag don't represent the whole country and only represent the Southern states. Originally it wasn't racist or pro-slavery. How symbols and flags are used to represent a province or municipality, the Southern flag was supposed to represent some of the states. It's nothing wrong with that.

But some people who supported the pro-slavery and anti-black ideologies choose to use it in their campaigns, therefor it's associated with oppression. It doesn't mean it was intended to be it and people wants to get rid of the meaning. I wouldn't like if people used my province's flag to discriminate others and no one could force me or anyone else to quit using it just because someone else tried to ruin it. I'm not a Southern, but do have provincial and municipality flags.

Being a proud south-American is no different than being a proud West-Norwegian or South-Italian for instance. Not everyone from the same province are racist or mean.

[N192K001]

Flags, like other things in communication, are meaningless symbols. It's the meaning attached to them by the viewer that gives them meaning.

For example, the swastika is seen as a symbol of hate in the West because of Hitler and this experience has been associated with the symbol.

In the East, it's a symbol of good luck associated with Ganesh (Hindu god of luck) and Buddha.

The symbols may be identical (or mirrored), but many (except Hindus and Buddhists) generally don't recognize the flipping, but the ideas attached will still be attached, merited or not.

The same seems to be the case for the "Confederate flag" in that Southerners who love the flag attach a wholly different set of ideas to it, than do other Americans (and others with no affinity to it).

[timeflies10]

I fly and am very proud to fly the Confederate flag because it shows my southern pride. I do not support slavery nor have I ever. And slavery was not just blacks. It was also Irish and Scottish as well and in some cases they were treated a hell of a lot worse. I believe slavery us terrible and was terrible, but I fly the flag loud and proud because it shows my southern heritage and love for my home. And I get my panties in a bunch when a football player kneels for the National Anthem because that is unbelievably disrespectful. You stand with your hand over your heart for the men and women who fought and died for our country. If he wants to protest how terribly blacks are being treated then he can go stand on a sidewalk with a sign. He gets paid to go out and play football, not protest. You kneel at the cross to show respect towards God, you stand for the Flag to show respect towards the people who are fighting for us.

[Asker]

That literally makes no sense.

[curiousnorway]

The Irish and Scottish were indentured servants, so their children were usually born free. In addition it was similar to a prison sentence and lasted only a few years, not for life. Slaves are usually slaves for life except if their owners wants to free them and their children are also slaves. So although the Irish and Scottish could be equal poorly treated as other slaves, they still had a bigger chance getting freed than the regular one in the US.

It's also true there were many other slaves than blacks. Both Rome, Greece, the vikings, Arabs, Persians etc. had slaves.

[rachel776]

it does not represent pro-slavery ideals, we have been told that's what it represents, but it doesn't. The Civil War was not about slavery, Lincoln said if slavery would keep the Union together, he would be for it, and if ending slavery would keep the Union together, he would be for that.

[Asker]

False. Yes, Lincoln said this but he only said it because he wanted to keep the country together. However, slavery was an issue as Lincoln was not pro-slavery and the union had a problem with that, no slaves, state rights, and the taxation in general. So yes, the flag does represent pro slavery ideas. It can represent more than one thing.

[madhatters4]

it's a great question right? why do we recognize in anyway a treasonous group that rose up against the United States. they lost the war in their failed attempt to secede. they and the flag they rallied around should be nothing but a picture and a chapter in history books

[ladsin]

because the people who fly it don't think it stands for those things.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Well first you need to clarify, what americans? Its not an American thing, its a southern thing. Second that flag was never actually used by confederates (a similar design was proposed but that one was never actually used). The reason why they use the "confederate" flag is as a sign of solidarity of the south as during the civil war in order to beat the south the union troops fought with "total warfare" in short General Sherman among others would rip up rail roads as they passed and capture and destroy towns in order to prevent them from providing resources and troops to the confederates. This caused catastrophic economic damage to the south. When the war ended cotton was less profitable as well as during the war production ceased and European nations had found other sources of it so the south has honestly only recently started bouncing back from the civil war. They felt that they where abandoned after the war and as such they started to rally themselves around the what is now known as the "confederate" flag (again, despite the confederates never actually using it) in order to show solidarity with their fellow southerners in such hard times which then morphed into a sign of southern pride in and of itself. So it never represented slavery or treason to begin with but people who don't know their history make that assumption.

[jimyee]

Are you fucking serious? You try to come off as a know it all and yet you know nothing
www.usflag.org/confederate.stars.and.bars.html
www.britannica.com/.../flag-of-the-Confederate-States-of-America
Do just a little research before you start spouting bullshit.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@jimyee Well, first and foremost you don't enter into a discussion insulting some one and acting like you have done, it makes you look really bad and if you where right the person will be less willing to listen to you and if your wrong, like you are, you will look like an even bigger asshole: www.npr.org/.../the-complicated-political-history-of-the-confederate-flag
en.wikipedia.org/.../Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
So next time please be respectful and try to act like a decent human being instead of an asshole, you will have a better chance at being taken seriously that way.

[jimyee]

I literally just provided to different source, one being the fucking Britannica that directly proved your statement wrong. It's an end of discussion. You look more and more foolish. What ever "evidence you just tried to provide only backs me up. You are hilarious. You literally claimed it was never used when in fact the confederate battle flag was used if notvthe whole time, nearly all of the civil war and the 2nd andv3rd iterations of the confederate flag bore the the classic confederate symbol which again were used during most of the civil war. You seriously needvto try actually reading. Get the fuck out.

[jimyee]

And yes, when someone makes a pompous foolish statement you absolutely enter the discussion by mocking them for trying to spread misinformation.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@jimyee I also provided two different sources that show that it was never in use as it is used today but was part of a design of another flag. Also again, acting like a complete prick doesn't make things better, it makes you look like a prick. Maybe you want to tone it down a bit and have a civilized discussion? Now I used those two sources, that I presented which stated what I stated, one of which is NPR. As it stated it was used as part of another flag (the one with the cross and white background) If you wish to contest that with them that is fine, if you wanted to say that according to your sources it was used sparingly for at most two years before being reincorporated into another flag, then we could have a discussion on that. But you didn't do that. You acted like a cunt. You came in insulting and belittling me for no particular reason as my sources show what I said was not controversial, it sure as hell wasn't offensive yet your throwing a bitch fit over it.

[jimyee]

Your sources brought nothing new to the table, they literally said the exact same shit that mine already did. Which proved your original statement 100% wrong.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@jimyee So now the real question is why are you acting like a cunt? Nothing I said was particularly terrible, according to your own sources it was used for cavalry for Robert E. Lee according to the various sources and as it stated, "The design of the Stars and Bars varied over the following two years." after its introduction. So you could have mentioned that and acted like a decent person, again, but instead you chose to be a little bitch, a cunt if you will. So again, why? Their was nothing I stated that was particularly controversial, according to the sources it was not a confederate flag, it was the battle flag of Robert E. Lee, "The "Stars and Bars" flag, currently the subject of controversy, was actually the battle flag of Gen. Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia." and as my other quote shows these varied frequently and was not as you put it used for the entire duration of the war (and varied from company to company).

[hellionthesagereborn]

@jimyee So again, why act like a cunt about what is clearly a misunderstanding of what I was saying? Maybe you want to put your big girl panties on, make believe you have a sack between your legs and act like a fucking adult? Maybe don't act like a pathetic bitch next time and we can keep this civil. Or don't, I personally don't care its just particularly effective way of going about things (I mean look at my comments, are you really going to admit to a misunderstanding after I insulted you (back)? Of course not your going to double down throw a bitch fit etc. etc. Its just not an efficient system.).

[jimyee]

See, you're just a fucking moron and can't take responsibility for the inaccuracies of your bullshit.
Seriously, just read your bullshit, it's hilarious how stupid it is.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@jimyee Okay. You want to act like a bitch that's your choice, I just wanted you to act like a fucking man, maybe make believe you where not a little bitch for once but clearly you want to do that go for it. I presented sources, I quoted your and my sources, I admitted their was some confusion between what I said and what you thought I was saying (maybe I didn't word it well enough) but you want to act like a cunt then that is your prerogative. Go cunt it up, just do it some where else.

[jimyee]

🤣 you crack me up. There is no confusion here, you don't know what you're talking about and you're getting pissed off, it's hilarious.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@jimyee How am I pissed off? If you see some one who acts like a cunt, you call them a cunt. Doesn't mean that your angry at them, your just letting them know what they are. Again, I provided sources and actual quotes to clarify my statement as again, it was never a national confederate flag, it was a battle flag (one of many) for Robert E. Lee. So yeah, your a cunt and clearly lacking in the testicles department since your so upset over this that you would insult a complete stranger and mischaracterize their statements and act like a bitch about it. Anyway I've wasted enough time on you.

[jimyee]

once again you are hilarious, not only did your sources provide that the confederate battle flag became the mainstay of the confederate flag but so did mine as they all said the same thing. I will take solace in the fact that this cunt knows more than a douche.

[Mexicoman101]

Its just the south that does that. I think its motivated by racism in large part but now the confederate battle flag is like a general symbol of rebellion in some regions. Its also that some people don’t want to believe that their ancestors died for nothing, or they are mad about their family and property being burned during things like Shermans incursion. I know someone from the south who takes the atrocities to heart, so that’s probably a factor in it.

I don’t consider it patriotic, I think its at worst treasonous in sentiment and at best just another symbol of a conformist super organism.

[Mexicoman101]

As to the cause, I think it was financed by the issue of slavery and sold as an issue of states rights. The wealthy southern gentry didn’t like that slavery wasn’t allowed to expand and thought they could rile people into creating their own state for them. Alxander Stephens (Confederate VP) wrote in a letter that it was about slavery, but Jefferson Davis (president) either didn’t think it was or was unwilling to say so.

[Anonymous]

The American flag has stood for institutions that are every bit as murderous and indeed worse than anything practiced under the so called "Confederate flag". Hence the people flying this Confederate flag are actually BETTER people than the ones flying the American Flag.

[weirdoweirdo]

It was never officially the Confederate Flag.. So I have no Idea of what you speak of. This picture is of the real amd last officual confederate flag put into use 2 weeks before they capitulated.

[timeflies10]

That is the Third Official Confederate Flag. What a lot of people dont realize is that there were 5 different flags. The First Official Confederate Flag, the Battle Flag, The Second Official Confederate flag, the Confederate Naval Jack, and the Third Official Confederate flag.

[Kemil_Zhoki]

Conflation of "some Southern Americans" with "Americans" in general, and the poorly veiled, erroneous assumption that all or most of the people who oppose kneeling during the anthem honor the final Confederate Flag? I suppose I should stop expecting logic on this site.

[dropkicknj13]

1. It has never represented that
2. Only the southern states that originally raised it, honor it, not America as a whole

[reptocarl]

I’m an American and I’m as red conservative as they come but I’ve never agreed with allowing a failed regimes flag to fly anywhere. We remember Nazis in history books not by keeping their monuments and flags flying

[jimyee]

I've actually brought that up to monument supporters and they never have a response because how can you say "yes, we should have a statue to honor the memory of hitler". It shuts them up every time.

[reptocarl]

@jimyee what can they say?

[jimyee]

That theyre racist, treasonous, sympathizers🤣

[jimyee]

Because they're inbred morons who claim it's part of their history and tradition. Trust me, most of us hate that shit and think the dirty south should be forced to be done with that shit.

[timeflies10]

And then there are the rest of us who think that the African Americans should stop riding that dead horse talking about slavery. It is done and over with and was a long time ago. Get over it. Yes it was a big part of American history and I get that , but my ancestors were slaves but you dont see me still using that as an excuse.

[jimyee]

That has nothing to do with it.

[timeflies10]

Bull

[jimyee]

Let me make it simple for you. If its okay to memorialize Robert e lee, than let's put up a statue in honor of Adolph Hitler. In Germany it is illegal to fly a Nazi flag, because of America's free speech laws, it's legal to fly both the Nazi flag and the confederate flag, the only difference is that those who fly the Nazi flag don't try to hide what they are, they proudly stand up for the ideals that their flag represents. Those that fly the confederate flag are too chicken shit to admit why they fly it.

[timeflies10]

Again I call bull. I fly it loud and proud on the back of my pick up. And I can tell you the exact reason I fly it not because I am a racist or i hate black people but because it shows who i am and the fact the I have very very strong southern heritage and that I love where i am from.

[jimyee]

And you're a moron.

[timeflies10]

Some people are just too close minded and ignorant to accept the fact that one flag can have multiple meanings.

[timeflies10]

And why is that exactly?

[jimyee]

That's hilarious, appearently you're too close minded to see that if one thing represents multiple things it represents ALL of those things. The good and the bad. You don't get to cherry pick.

[Anonymous]

There's a very small amount of Americans that honor that flag and most of them are in the south, which is the worst area of America.

[timeflies10]

Not actually

[Opinion Owner]

What?

[Anonymous]

i mean look at alabama and mississippi's flags. THEY HAVE THE FLAG IN THEM

[Pink2000]

I do not honor the confederate flag

[Poormanscomedian]

The trader depends on who you asked

[Eleni91]

The South Lost the War and commit Treason.