Do you agree with Incel YouTubers 'Oreoman' and 'Kent' that confidence only works if the girl already finds you physically attractive?

[Physics-Man]

Yes

No

[BrittBratt2416]

Omogosh, i watched all those videos! Dude it's really sad and a damn shame. Anyway, there's truth in both sides. Confidence can make someone seem more outgoing and attractive to some people. However, not everyone is going to find you attractive regardless of your personality. Kinda like how guys complain about girls not being attracted to them cause their too "nice", well there's plenty of nice girls who are smart, aren't twerking at the clubs, who have wonderful personalities but still don't get noticed by certain men cause they just don't find her attractive. But with these guys they have completely given up and have zero confidence, just cause some people don't feel you doesn't mean other's will feel the same.

[Physics-Man]

I agree.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

"Kinda like how guys complain about girls not being attracted to them cause their too "nice", well there's plenty of nice girls who are smart, aren't twerking at the clubs, who have wonderful personalities but still don't get noticed by certain men cause they just don't find her attractive."

But the way you frames those wasn't the same. One hinged on guys being too "nice" and the other was girls who are nice not being physically attractive. They don't seem properly comparable.

[BrittBratt2416]

@AllThatSweetJazz Nope, its basically saying guys complain about not getting attention from girls while ignoring girls who do like them or are exactly like them personality wise.

[ronaldo75]

You women are just as full of shit as men when it comes to dating so get off the high horse and false-comparisons. Men land into trouble with "the wrong girl" because the wrong girls usually give up pussy A LOT quicker than the good girls that make the better girlfriends/wives. If men stopped chasing sex we'd be in 100% total control of dating. Women land into trouble because , real talk, I don't care how you take this - Y'ALL LOVE DRAMA AND FRICTION in relationships. In the beginning it's fun, it's fast, you're getting into fights but then having mind-blowing sex afterwards, bla bla bla then it gets boring, the guy gets tired of fighting OR he becomes abusive and HERE go with woman's favorite drug, playing victim.

BOTH sides are wrong.

[BrittBratt2416]

@ronaldo75 Who hurt you? First off stop assuming shit cause if you actually took the time to go through my profile you would see i hold both sexes accountable so there's no high horse to get off you miserable dick.

[ronaldo75]

HAhahaha you went into the "who hurt you" diatribe after I specifically said both sides are wrong.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

@BrittBratt2416
But you're stating different conditions.

For one thing the problem is specifically stated as these guys aren't finding girls. But the getting rejected for being too "nice" is not the same as not finding someone attractive.
Then furthermore, even if there are girls who like them, that's not the same context, is it? These girls aren't taking the same steps if they're just "not being noticed" and it's not the same circumstance as we're stipulating that these guys are in.

[BrittBratt2416]

@ronaldo75 because you started off with women are full of shit. If you said both sides, then you should of said women and men are both full of shit which i agree on. Both sexes are not perfect nor angels

[BrittBratt2416]

@AllThatSweetJazz Actually it is. I heard both sexes say someone is "nice and have a great personality" and that maybe truth but usually that translate to " the person is great but im not interested in nor attracted to them".

[AllThatSweetJazz]

But the difference would be that these men are not attractive *because* they are nice, whereas girls are not unattractive because they are nice. Speaking in generalities of course.

But it's also worth noting that this isn't occurring in equal measure between men and women. Men are "leading the decline in sexual activity" while women's sexual activity has been relatively stable. Relationships and sexuality are on the decline and it's primarily young men left out in the cold. I don't think this is just something normal that's happening in society.

[BrittBratt2416]

@AllThatSweetJazz Most women don't find genuine nice men unattractive. If you come off as push over or people pleaser to get something in return for showing decent human behavior, then of course it's going to be unattractive to women. Most women want men who are gentlemanly to them.

[BrittBratt2416]

@AllThatSweetJazz That really doesn't make sense when you think about it. If women's sexual activity is stable, then that means the men out there are who are perusing these women and competing are doing just fine.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

"Most women don't find genuine nice men unattractive."
Yet there is that whole disproportionate dating of assholes thing.

"If you come off as push over or people pleaser to get something in return for showing decent human behavior, then of course it's going to be unattractive to women."
You started with women like nice guys but then added a bunch of qualifiers for it. So in other words, yes, being too nice is a problem.

Then there's these terms "push over", "people pleaser", "decent human bheviour", "gentlemenly", these are loaded terms filtered through your experience. Trying to avoid/be these things as a guy is walking a tightrope and I'm not sure there's a female equivalent I can point to in order to help illustrate that.

In reality most guys are nicer to girls they like, pay more attention to them and all that: They alter their behaviour according to women's expectations. The ones that are more successful try to make it automatic behaviour they reflexively just do all the time. But people are nice to each other to get something in return, just not necessarily immediately, and there's nothing wrong with trying to please others. But when you try to be on your best behaviour for girls and it fails repeatedly then it doesn't become automatic behaviour, and the stress of going without churns. There's not a huge difference in how gentlemenly successful and unsuccessful guys are. Most guys are polite and want to do right by women, even incels, it's just a matter of how well guys can present the desirable behaviour demanded of them. Those who have had positive reinforcement do better; it doesn't generally come down to "genuine" niceness, that's women's interpretation of course, it's more about "convincing" niceness, but again, there's a tightrope, many hoops to jump through and that's a lot to do with luck.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

"That really doesn't make sense when you think about it."
It does make sense. This is a typical mistake in counting problems. In this context, you can count the same person multiple times. It means women are more concentrated around a smaller minority of men. So yes, women can do fine while men can do worse. It's perfectly possible.

[MzAsh]

What makes it even more difficult for men is the fact that women are more interested in facial attractiveness. A guy can get jacked all he wants but if his face is busted, no one is going to look twice at him.

[Pulimuli]

Oh look an honest woman!

I tell this to guys all the time on this site but they refuse to believe it and keep on saying im an idiot and that women dont care about looks

[MzAsh]

I honestly don’t mind if a guy is a little skinny, or maybe a little overweight. He can even be short... but he has to have a nice face. I’ve always been attracted to either eyes or a big smile. For example, Britney Spears boyfriend is hot, because his face is gorgeous. His body is nice too but that’s not what I’m looking at when I see him. If he lost his muscles I would still find him super hot.

[JustWorthlessMe]

Thanks for the honesty... what's sad is that some "men" will crucify other males who fall into that situation just to win the approval of the women here or to try to bolster their low self-esteem

[ronaldo75]

Nice face or money. These two look like dog shit but if either one had millions they'd be swimming in pussy. My issue isn't women's desires. My problem is the fact that women are such notorious fakes and liars when it comes to what they want, and most of it is because when men do it back to them it crushes their soul.

Women lie and say they don't care about looks , when in fact they do, because of how bad it hurts THEM when guys reject them because of looks.

They lie about not caring about dick size, when in fact they LOVE a big dick, because of how bad it hurts when guys are grossed out by their imperfect bodies.

on and on...

[Pulimuli]

@ronaldo75 most women lie about looks not mattering but every woman I've ever Been with has said that they wanted me because they found me good looking so thry have been pretty honest about that.

Some have told me stores about how they have rejected guys because they werent good looking. I have no idea why some guys still cling to this idea that women dont care about looks

[Sonorous]

I agree and disagree. I agree that looks matter more than confidence regarding dating. But I believe confidence can potentially boost someone's overall appearance. Confidence is like icing on a cake. Sometimes the icing can turn an "okay" tasting cake into a "really good" one! To an "already good" tasting cake, if the icing compliments it, that's is just a perk. So saying it doesn't matter is ignorant.

So many guys like that are viewing experiences they've encountered as how all women are. If something doesn't work for them, they'll assume it doesn't work at all. They don't take into account other factors.

[coachTanthony]

An average looking guy with low self confidence appears very unattractive. Now if an average looking guy has high self esteem, confidence and self worth they may get a double take by someone who wouldn't of done that to begin with just going off physical looks.

I have seen really good looking dudes with low self esteem, negative, and super whinny which is a huge turn off to women. He might get them to look his way but if he isn't fun to be around he won't be around very long.

[coachTanthony]

Thanks for mHo

[rjroy3]

Here's the thing. It's never a cool, engaging, fun guy who happens to be physically unappealing saying confidence doesn't matter. It's always losers. Blunt I know, but it's true. It's always sad sacks saying shit like that, when it's simply not true. They just wouldn't know because at best they pretended to be confident to get a girl once or twice and pretending didn't "work" so they say it doesn't matter unless she finds you physically appealing. Personally, I know enough guys who if I just showed you a picture of and told you they had multiple hot girlfriends you would just tell me i'm lying to make you feel better.

[ChiTown33]

Most definitely! Looks matter with women. That's not to say some women can't look past your ugliness. But ask yourself this do you really want to be with someone who just tolerates the way you look? Lol personally I'd rather be alone. Just accept that some women just won't be attracted to you. All women have their tastes and reasons accept it and move on.

[turd_of_warning]

Evolutionary psychologists actually know a fair bit about what women are attracted to, so it boggles the mind that there are so many people online getting their information from. . . less credible sources.

thematinggrounds. com/what-are-women-attracted-to/

[englisc]

Of course physical attraction always matters. However, lack of confidence can kill attraction even if she does find the guy physically attractive, that's why it's important.

[ronaldo75]

These guys are both black, dorky and not handsome at all. Let's cut the bullshit and state the obvious. However, the confidence to attraction ratio is dependent on outside factors. If your'e an ugly ass geeky black dude then being a millionaire will take care of things REAL QUICK,

[RolandCuthbert]

Wow. These are brothers? Man, that first brother is out of his mind. He is completely and totally lost.

I feel bad for him. But if he won't help himself, there is no help for him.

[coachTanthony]

Let the down votes begin. LOL

[RolandCuthbert]

@coachTanthony Haha! It is just the way things are here, right?

People boo you, when you tell them they have the means to be successful and happy.

Its like. . ."how dare you claim I can like myself and be content with life!"

[coachTanthony]

Ha Ha Ha exactly. We are two ugly brothers that somehow magically beat the odds LOL

[r1ngzz]

People will say no but honestly if you're attractive it's ten times easier lol not all good looking women are superficial I know but come on lol if you look good you usually want someone that looks good too

[Anonymous]

Wow, those two are quite the whiny losers. Yes, looks matter, but these two need to get on Prozac or something. That first 17 minute video could have been summed up in under a minute, but he felt the need to repeat the same tired shit over and over.

[GuidoThePizzaMaker]

Yes I agree. A woman knows almost immediately if she will be willing to date a guy or not. From that point its up to the guy to not be a loser or weirdo.

[ForbesMagazine]

That's true to a degree, if she doesn't find you attractive then it doesn't matter how confident you are.

Being attractive itself doesn't save you though.

[JustWorthlessMe]

hmmm 83% agree but there are the typical boys here who want to kiss up to women they'll never meet and attack these men... often just trying to seem cool in a very stupid way... just read the comments to see who these "men" are

[Pulimuli]

For attraction it only Works if she's already attracted to you

Confidence isn't a bad thing to have but if you think you are going to get women off of it then im sorry to say no

[demonics]

FLIRTING only works if she finds you attractive already. >_>

[Anonymous]

the term incel is nothing more then propaganda..

conform or your an incel what B. S

[beekeeper]

Incels have problems.

[Thatsamazing]

Yep.