Meat eaters:
1. How do you justify eating meat and how is it right to do it?
2. What is your moral arguments against the vegan ones?
Vegans and vegetarians: What do you think? #Vegan #Vegetarian #NoMeat


I'm against anti-meat movements. The argument I use to justify my eating meat is that I don't eat sentience being. No matter how smart an animal can be, they will never have the sentience comparable to humans, thus it's safe to consider them the same as plants. As long as we can give them a painless death, or taking their lives properly following the guidance given to us through religion, eating meat isn't wrong.
2. If I were asked that question, I think I will just say that all creatures have life, but not all of them are granted with sentience. Animals and plants are granted conscience, at least they can respond to stimuli and they will react in accordance to their instinct.
The interviewer asked if it's okay to kill an animal because someone want to taste it, it's not wrong and it's within their rights to do so as long as the animal is either not owned by someone or belonged exclusively to himself. If he wants to buy my dog to taste its meat, I'll sell it to him with an appropriate price.
2. Morally speaking? Am I right to think that vegans aren't humans because they argued about why we couldn't eat other people? Or perhaps, am I allowed to force them all to take another biology class to learn if humans are omnivores or not? Sorry for being so provocative here, but I just want to live true to my nature as an omnivore and oppose those who think that we humans should just enjoy veggies without touching animals at all.
If vegans want to know what I AM morally speaking about, I think it's more immoral and irresponsible to just eat veggies without animals.
Think about ecosystem balance. If we stop eating the herbivores, who will eat them? With the current environment we have: wrecked jungles, burning forests, illegal logging, flood, water pollution, can you guarantee that there will be enough food for those animals we used to eat? Can you guarantee that the chickens can survive in the forest after being cooped in the barn for so long? Can you guarantee that the fishes we used to eat can find enough food for themselves in the sea after we decided to stop culling the numbers while they never stop multiplying themselves and the sea is already polluted with wastes coming from our daily activities?
I think I will need to make a video to explain clearly, but that's something I can't afford to do right now.
That's a stupid argument. We don't eat other humans because our civilization, culture/society all operate on trust which cannot be maintained if we kill and eat each other. We don't have that issue with animals (but this is also why its taboo to eat a pet because they are part of our society in a role that requires a mutually beneficial relationship, stock animals however are not.). As for why we keep eating meat, just because we live in a "modern society" doesn't mean our bodies have changed, they haven't. We are still unable to produce certain minerals and vitamins on our own that are only found in meat, we require more energy for our larger brains and meat and animal fat happens to be the best source of energy that we can absorb to maintain those brains. If you look at the data vegans suffer from sever health issues such as osteoporosis (even found in men), and general health issues because again, we are biologically built to be omnivores. Its kind of like asking why lions or wolves eat meat instead of plants, the answer is very simply because they are biologically dependent on meat as a food source. As for the moral stance why is it okay to kill plants but not animals? If its only about pain then painless killing of animals should be perfectly acceptable to vegans (but its not). If its about the well being of the animal the animals are actually better off with humans then they are on their own as we actively try to kill them humanely while other animals eat them while they are still alive, we actively provide them food and shelter and we make sure that they breed and their species lives on while ensuring that they have an extended life before killing them (in the wild they go for the weakest which is usually the younger or oldest of the animals). So none of their arguments are logical on any level.
Oh please, must you keep peddling your garbage?
"just because we live in a "modern society" doesn't mean our bodies have changed, they haven't." yeah, because we learned to use fire to cook meat doesn't mean that our body adapted to process meat. You could feed a deer steak and it would probably effect them the same way it does us.
"We are still unable to produce certain minerals and vitamins on our own that are only found in meat," Minerals are elements and our bodies aren't nuclear reactors so no organisms can "make minerals" they have to be environmentally obtained. Shows what you know (jack shit).
"we require more energy for our larger brains and meat and animal fat happens to be the best source of energy that we can absorb to maintain those brains." The maximum daily intake of saturated fats recommended is 30 grams which is only ~11% of the recommended calorie intake; but what would you expect from someone who can't do basic math such as yourself. A big brain requires more calories and before we learned to farm the only way we could acquire enough calories was via cooking meat. But the advent of agriculture changed that rendering this argument moot.
" If you look at the data vegans suffer from sever health issues such as osteoporosis (even found in men), and general health issues because again, we are biologically built to be omnivores." Not if they eat plant based foods with enough calcium in their diet. https://www. todaysdietitian. com/newarchives/0216p24. shtml
"we are biologically built to be omnivores." But NOT 50/50 omnivores. If anything we're adapted to get 95%+ of our calories from plants and the remaining <5% from invertebrates. Why do you think insects are the healthiest meat there is?
"we actively provide them food and shelter and we make sure that they breed and their species lives on while ensuring that they have an extended life before killing them" most animals are killed upon reaching physical maturity because feeding them beyond that point would be a waste.
In short your argument is again full of shit.
@Ad_Quid_Orator We have been through this so many times and still you persist in showing your rampant stupidity (I'd say ignorance but considering its self afflicted I think we can call it stupidity at this point). No, we are not primarily herbivores that is incorrect again, see all data on the subject from such institutions as Harvard, etc. etc. etc.( already proved you wrong in this regard so many times their is no point in proving you wrong again). Yes we kill them once they reach a certain maturity level, at which point did I argue otherwise? At no point, no point was that argued, once they reach a certain stage they are used for breeding ensuring the species survival and then they are eaten because we use them as food. Again, your just showing how idioticly stupid your arguments are by throwing your hissy fits and making up things that are completely and quite provably false. So because I'm so tired of proving you wrong so often (again, you would think you would get tired of making a complete ass of yourself but here you are doing it again (and again and again and again ad nauseum) here are some sources that you can ignore and claim don't count because you don't like what they say: www.fertstert.org/.../fulltext
https://butternutrition.com/10-vegan-diet-dangers/
www.foodandwine.com/.../german-nutritionists-say-veganism-isnt-healthy
https://empoweredsustenance.com/is-vegan-healthy/
@Ad_Quid_Orator articles.mercola.com/.../...Percent-of-Adults.aspx
www.independent.co.uk/.../...-monroe-a8177541.html
www.acsh.org/.../why-a-vegetarian-diet-may-be-bad-for-you
www.insider.com/health-risks-going-vegan-unhealthy-2018-7
www.npr.org/.../for-most-of-human-history-being-an-omnivore-was-no-dilemma
www.forbes.com/.../#75fbddb27af5
www.manticmoo.com/.../...lving-human-dentition.php
Also here is a link to a book you can buy to get better educated on the subject: www.amazon.com/.../ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl
Most of the links you've posted are pointing out the dangers of a PUERLY herbivorous (or at least meat free if you include the ones discussing vegetarianism) not a predominately herbivorous diet. You claim that I'm ignorant but you can't even identify the argument countering your claim. Also, as I have shown, you completely misinterpreted the results of the Harvard study discussing how eating meat allowed us to have a larger brain so trying to cite it to make your case just shows what a jackass you are. And if you actually read the articles entirely, you'd know that the Forbes one cited chimps but chimps obtain ~95% of their calories from plants and only 5% from meat (~80% of which is insects) so just as before your sources go against your case. As for the dentition article, that's only discussing theories as to why our teeth are smaller, not asserting one was right. HellionTheSageReborn self-PWNage everyone LMAO.
Firstly because cannibalism is ethically wrong. Human beings are very attached to their loved ones and have respect for one another to the point that we have rituals to even care about a person's dead body, bathe it, bury it, going to visit its grave and praying for the dead. Eating human flesh is just directly against that.
Regarding animal flesh, we do eat animals that are tame enough for domestication and food, there is a matter of convenience here because we also get milk and eggs from the animals that we tend to domesticate for food, like chicken, cows, goats and even camels. Cats and dogs really aren't like that plus they are carnivores, meat eaters rarely eat terrestrial animals that are carnivores.
Our ancestors were not stupid when they decided which animals they should domesticate.
The concept of morality in it is silly. Of course killing someone or something is kinda awful. The thing is that people have not been to the facilities in which they raise animals and see how inhumanly raised they are treated. We are attached to our pets so that’s why eating them seems terrible. And we interact with other humans which is why eating them unless in a life or death situation is also dreadful, even if the person is willing to consent in to being eaten. And then there is the fact that people often don’t have to kill their own food. The only thing I’ve ever killed is a lobster and other girls I know even struggled to do that. I also don’t think I could kill something that isn’t seafood. But I can manufacture cuts. The answer of why is Attachment and interaction.
Opinion
74Opinion
We are different species. You don't see many animals eating others of their own species (except in extreme cases). If you want to compare the species, cannibalism is seen as bad for any species as it can reduce their population and drive them to extinction. If you want to compare us to animals, they do eat other animals. Humans are omnivorous by nature, so meat is a natural part of our diet. Lack of meat also has psychological effects.
Morality isn’t a good argument to use. Philosophically, under just war theory, Adolf Hitler was morally correct to kill all the Jews. So, seeing that morality can be philosophically made to fit any cause, it’s best to avoid such distinctions.
You can technically eat pets, if you want to spend that kind of money to do so. You can also technically eat people. There are many tribes that do so. There are many cases of people eating other people to survive in extreme situations. However, when we digest human meat an enzyme is released that can cause symptoms similar to schizophrenia. However, we are technically red meat much like cattle. Strangely enough, all cannibals have stated that human meat tastes like pork.
Medically speaking you cannot survive on only vegetables. Many vitamins and minerals can only be obtained from animal proteins. You could technically supplement, but that isn’t living on just vegetables.
We are evolved to survive on meat and green vegetables in about equal quantities. What we aren’t evolved for are carbs. Specifically simple carbs discharge as bread, pasta, rice, and any other carb that we currently cultivate. Most vegans and vegetarians rattled larger amounts of carbs, which our digestive system did not evolve to process properly.
Because humans are humans, and cannibalism vastly increases the risk of cancer in any animals which do it, especially mammals? Oh, and a far better question would be "Why is Eating Animals Wrong, But Not Plants (vegan vs meat debate)?" Because you know, plants have feelings too. When you're eating a carrot, or a potato? You know the primary function of that part of the plants' anatomy, the reason why you can plug wires into them and use them as batteries? It's because root vegetables are what plants evolved in the place of brains- and reading their neurological signals, its clear that all plants DO feel, and DO suffer. Even fruiting plants, which evolved to have their fruits eaten by animals- they're proven to feel immense pain during fruiting periods, because just like with dairy cows and battery hens, they've been bred to be completely overladen and incapacitated by the load of the harvests they have to yield; incapable of supporting themselves in the wild. As such, veganism is JUST as inhumane as eating meat. And trying to argue that it isn't, just because "there's nothing wrong with eating plants, cause we're not plants, we're animals" is no different to arguing that "there's nothing wrong with eating animals, cause we're not animals, we're humans". Using the classic vegans' argument, taking it to its full logical conclusion, we shouldn't be eating ANYTHING. But that's the problem. Vegans just need to come to terms with it, and get over their body dysmorphia. We are not plants, we are members of the animal kingdom.
"Meat eaters:"
- sup brotha man
"1. How do you justify eating meat and how is it right to do it?"
- I don't justify it at all. It's not a moral, right or wrong question to me. It's amoral like having a favorite color. In any context things can be:
1. Moral
2. Immoral
3. Amoral
4. Morally Forgiveable
Eating other animals is Amoral. We're omnivores and animals aren't people. I'd ask how do you justify it to be a moral question to begin with. Convince me it's a question of morality to begin with for me to make a decision on.
"2. What is your moral arguments against the vegan ones?"
- I have no moral arguments against vegan arguments, tho I would in most cases argue hypocrisy in their actions per their own standards. While I don't consider it a matter of morality with eating other animals. If you're going to make that case, then you better live by the standard you're promoting. I'm fine with discussing the topic with a vegan who is living by his own standards. But if he's not living by his own convictions and arguing that I should live by a standard he isn't even following, then I won't consider it. I'm not talking about having an ideal and falling short, while trying to adhere to it. I'm talking about having a clear standard and just not living up to it ever.
They also arguments if eating farm animals aren't wrong, why aren't we okay with eating pets or humans?
Well I mean in some cultures eating pets is ok, several cultures eat dog and cat and virtually any animal can be kept as a pet all a pet is, is a domesticated animal kept for companionship and even wild animals can be domesticated. So technically you can eat all kinds of pets, I've eaten rabbit and rabbits are kept as pets so are pigs which I've eaten as well.
You could also argue that if vegans value all life and nature then they should be against things like farming expansion which results in large swaths of land having tree's cut down and animals being killed like mice.
You could even bring up the scientific data that suggests plants can feel and feel pain. And so they shouldn't eat plants.
You could also bring up the fact that vegan societies/tribes have existed in our ancient past but were wiped out due to them stagnating and being overall pretty weak and pathetic compared to meat eating societies/tribes.
Then there is the fact that veganism is horrible for you, the mere fact that it's almost a requirement to be on supplements in that life style so that your body can get the nutrients it needs because it isn't getting what it needs from the food itself.
There is also a difference between animal and plant protein for instance meat is a complete protein which contains an adequate proportion of each of the nine essential amino acids necessary in the human diet. Whereas plants are incomplete proteins and are missing, or do not have enough of, one or more of the essential amino acids, making the protein imbalanced.
Also the difference between eating humans and eating animals is that for one if you eat another human your committing cannibalism and eating your own species. If you eat an animal your eating a different species not your own. Which is the same thing other animals do.
So, cannibalism is rare in nature. Yes, some animals eat their own kind, but it's not a super common occurrence. The reason is probably because if they are the same species and they all eat each other, then they can't procreate and continue the species.
As for pets, well we ascribe them anthropomorphic characteristics and turn them into humans. I don't have a problem with it, personally, but I know some people do. There are breeds of dogs that are raised solely for food production in Asian countries. There's also the occasional cat that gets eaten in some cultures. In Mexico, horse meat is common. It just depends on the upbringing of the person eating it.
Having slaughtered and butchered animals, I know what goes into it, where our food comes from, and what it's like. I feel for the animals, but there are nutrients that we can't get without animal proteins or supplements. Because of this, the line for me comes down to what is healthy.
And for anyone thinking "herbivores" in the wild don't eat meat, they're wrong. Hippos, elephants, cows, deer, rabbits, and more, have all been seen eating animals.
Pro-Meat arguments
1. Men are omnivorous.
Evidenced by
a. our dentition structure
b. length if intestine
c. spectrum of pancreatic enzyms
2. Evolutionary theories state that we have so quickly and effectively evolved that overeating meat have become necessary in developing the complex brain we have today.
3. Food of animals origin contain many critical substances. Chronic lack leads to problems with bones and muscles. A lack of B12 could kill you.
4. Eating no meat or animal origin meals isn't always the most affordable way of nutrition. Where animal products contain lots of critical substances in one piece or another you have to puzzle your way to a healthy nutrition when you're vegan or vegetarian - sometines to the point of taking pills that, if of good quality, are expensive.
5. If all your protein comes from beans, a poopy smell is what you're having on a daily basis. And people will be mire distant as it's uncomfortable.
6. If one becomes fanatic in "saving the world", their relations, physical and psychological health will suffer a lot.
7. Remember what Steve Jobbs did? He could be saved but he didn't want it. See previous number.
They often show diagrams of how much meat harms the earth in comparison to alternatives like soy beans but they never say how much soy you'd need to replace meat. It's always a 1:1 comparison but what if I need a kg pack of soy beans instead of two medium steaks?
People can each decide ehat they want to eat but it's only their choice. They can't force it upon me or any other person just because they believe it's good for them. I'm omnivore and I keep it. I respect their choices so they have to equally respect mine. Otherwise they can clean up my shoes with their faces.
1. How do you justify eating meat and how is it right to do it?
It's the natural order of things, creatures eat other creatures, even animals we typically classify as herbivores won't hesitate to eat meat; it's how our ancestors rose to power, when we learned to hunt we gained access to meat which is a much more efficient energy source for our body meaning we could fuel our larger brains and invent and adapt. There is nothing wrong with eating meat, what's wrong is the conditions livestock are in in order to fulfill our demand, and sadly that's the way it is going to have to be until we can come up with a better solution like lab grown meat.
2. What is your moral arguments against the vegan ones?
I don't really have a problem with vegans, live your life how you want, just don't try to push your lifestyle on me and we'll get along. However, don't just be passive, do something about it if you're passionate about it, join the scientific community to find a better solution, come up with ideas, invent, that's what really makes changes.
The vegans also likes to argument the natural argument is flawed because of war is also natural behavior in humans, but it doesn't mean it's always good.
Well of course it will seem flawed when you compare it to war, war is very complex, and normally a last resort, it doesn't always have a clear reason either, it's a result of the ideas that humans have created. Eating a certain type of food has a clear reasoning, energy to sustain yourself, everything does it. There is even undeniable evidence that humans were built to eat meat, it's (hopefully) in everyone's mouths, canines and incisors in the front for tearing meat, and maulers in the back for grinding plants, we are all omnivores.
There are some very good pro-vegetarian arguments.
Where they step to vegan they tend to fall down.
Most of what I see up there is fear-mongering propaganda, which is a shame, because it spoils and devalues the real arguments.
For my part, as a confirmed meat-eater, here is my thoughts.
Yes, there are many good arguments in favor of vegetarianism. But to move to that in a healthy way requires a fairly constant rigorous monitoring of diet to ensure that the things that meats provide are still available.
Vegetarian food that pretends to be meat is disgusting in general. The idea that vegetarian food should be made to imitate meat is enough to rule the idea out right there. There are plenty of great ways of eating vegetarian without pretending you are not.
Ethics:- This one is the killer - for assorted reasons vegetarianism is ethically more beneficial to society and the world.
So I do what I can to source my meat as ethically as possible and not have any of the animal wasted etc etc
The ethical status of vegetarianism is where many (especially vegans) become irritatingly anti-social and self riteous, again ruining their arguments.
With the development of vat-grown meat, insects for food, genetic modification etc etc meat can be sourced in a less damaging and more effective way in time. That is something we should be working toward.
For me, the punchline is, we are omnivorous, not herbivorous.
Ohhh - and on a related note - vegetarian and vegan extremists who put their cats and dogs (especially cats) on "vegetarian diets" have lost ALL moral high ground and should be jailed. Torturing animals is NOT ethical.
Human beings are omnivores and meat provides complete proteins without supplements. Eating meat or not eating meat is a cultural argument. Eating certain kinds of meat can be wrong in other parts of the world, that here is fine, Beef is forbidden in the Hindu religion, pork for Kosher and Halal reasons. Some people might be weirded out by the eating of rabbits, but rabbit stew is enjoyed in many places. Veganism and Vegetarianism just introduces another cultural moral.
That being said, I respect Vegans and Vegetarians for whatever reason they might be one, but please don't be in my face spouting the virtues of veganism, that's annoying.
We aren't omnivores in the sense that we're adapted to get 50% of our calories from other mammals, we're omnivores in the sense that we're adapted to get ~5% of our calories from insects and other invertebrates.
@Ad_Quid_Orator I've eaten crickets, they're freaking tasty when prepped right.
Eating plants is also wrong because you kill the plants and eat it's children.
You don't eat human because #1 you don't have enough and more importantly #2 you get into legal claim problems from their families.
The practice of eating human isn't new. It was one of the tradition for a couple tribes back a long time ago. They would eat the flesh of their ancestors to honor them.
Traditional hunting is also the same. There is sort of a trade off to hunt and kill and consume the whole animal. Sort of being one with the circle of life.
So it boils down to farm raised animals. The gist of it. Taste. It's one of the 3 important issues of life.
Just spend a year eating nothing but bad tasting food. Your life will be miserable. Trust me. Enough to kill people.
There is a reason why prison made really bad food as a punishment.
Humans are more susceptible to bacteria, viruses, prions, parasites, etc. that use humans as a host. Various animals have different body temperatures, pH, etc. and as a result host a different set of pests but still have some overlap. Thus why you have weird rules in religion concerning food due to a misunderstanding of those overlapping parasites when culinary preparation and hygiene wasn’t as well understood. It’s thus less risky to eat them than humans. It’s the same reason why composted cow and horse manure is generally considered OK for fertilizing crops for human consumption, but human sewage is not (not to mention all those pharmaceuticals with relatively stable organic molecules). Human sewage is usually unacceptable until it has decomposed with other compost for at least 10 years except in places like China where they love to take crazy risks out of greed. People also have a stronger emotional tie to their kin but that should be obvious...
There is a term for humans eating another human. It is called canibalism and it is fundamental rock of human society, one of first laws in ancient human society and any other society to this day is that human dont eat human. I mean it is totally different to eat an animal and to eat human, because we evolve so far and built civilization by introducing those laws to ourselves, while animals dont have that laws, and by the way we have animal nature but we are not animals entirely we have personality ego, id, alter ego, I mean we evolved far beyond animal.
From a secular standpoint its considered murder because in order to eat someone you would have to kill them which isn’t good.
Of course if your in a donner party situation or the Uruguayan Rugby team that crashed in the Andes you have no choice but to eat the members who have died of course these are very desperate situations.
However when you look at samoan culture and other island nations prior to the colonization they would eat then people they killed in war, it’s know as taking there mana by eating there flesh you would gain there Energy and power
From a Christian perspective there god told them not to eat humans but we can eat the rest of the animals
Either way I would rather kill my self then go vegan I don’t mind eating some vegan food like my mom has this The Getty recipe where she just uses noodles garlic and mushrooms and carrots however I ruined the vegan side by putting cheese on it is Cheese is amazing
Well... Most species do not tend to eat their own species... This is common throughout the animal kingdom. In humans, we are social animals and eating one another is both morally wrong and just outright against our very grain as humans (again the majority of animal species do not eat one another). Also, flesh in general is meat, so we are a meat. Humans also have a lot of... Things that we do not wish to process. We aren't as appealing as other creatures because of our flesh to size ratio. Take cows or chicken for example, both widely eaten throughout the planet except for India for the most part... Cows are much larger animals with a large amount of flesh to eat from. The average human weighs a 10th of the average cow.. Chicken just is larger than it should be and their flesh to size ratio is bountiful compared to us.
Blah blah blah, we vary in size and killing one another is also a crime... Generally speaking.
Okay here's my view, humans have reached a stage that allows us to understand that other animals are alive, possibly feel pain, and have the right to not be harmed other animals have not. Humans are also at a point where we can live perfectly healthy without consuming animals. Now I do not want anyone to stop eating meat against their will at all but I personally believe slaughtering and farming animals is animal abuse, anyone who looks into the farming industry can at least agree it needs seriously changed.
With what animals are deemed worthy of protection, it's just cultural. As for eating humans, not only the same reasons we don't just kill each other, eating human flesh isn't actually worth while it will do more harm than good.
I’m vegan and I think as humans it is our responsibility to take care of our planet, including the animals. Sure, we are more intelligent, but that doesn’t mean our lives matter so much more. Maybe it’s the food chain, but we have other ways of getting food that don’t involve slaughtering helpless beings. But I keep my cats eating meat based food because that is what they eat and there is not much we can do to change it. All of you old people that are like “mmmm yummy I could never stop eating meat because it’s so goooood.” are just being stupid. Open your eyes. You say we are somehow better than these animals, well act like it. Just because it’s the way things were back in the caveman days doesn’t mean it has to stay like that forever. Are you a caveman? No. So why do you think it’s okay to kill these animals? We have the capability and resources to feed ourselves other ways so why don’t you?
Look we eat meat because we like it. Farmers grow and eat there livestock and provide milk eggs and even bacon.
You dont have to eat it. Why should we stop eating what we like to eat because you dont like it.
So, why do you think it's okay to kill these plants instead? Just because they're less like yourself, more alien? Because plants, and fungi, have feelings too, you know. They have thoughts, they feel pain and stress, they communicate with one another through chemical signals. How can you justify your consumption of mushrooms and vegetables by simply dismissing it, saying that "they're not animals like us, so it doesn't matter", while condemning any meat-eaters who're capable of applying logical consistency, and extend that same argument to say that "they're not humans like us, so it doesn't matter with them either"?
So what do we eat then? You can make you own choices but I think if we have the capability then we have the responsibility
We eat whatever we feel like eating. And there's no required moral or ethical dilemma revolving around that, any more than there would be for plants about 'eating' all of the sunlight and not allowing other plants to get that insolation instead. You're a member of the animal kingdom, as am I. And even animals with hacks, like oriental hornets, which can photosynthesize too by using the pigment xanthopterin (the same one which makes our piss yellow), still have to eat. At least the overwhelming majority of meat-eaters now eat their food when it's definitively dead, as opposed to the veggies who prefer to eat their veggies fresh and alive...
I eat meat because it is what I have known my entire life. I don't like the thought of them being placed into a slaughter house. I've cried my eyes out and gone into a panic attack from seeing what they do to sheep, chickens, cows etc... it tore my heart out. So why still eat meat? well, I didn't kill it, and I do like the taste ( I only eat chicken and beef anyway since the rest is disgusting to me. ) I want to become a vegetarian, but my mother can't afford to eat healthier ( apparently ), and they love their meats too much. Sadly, I love spagbol :( and burgers. I know exactly where they come from, how they're made etc. It's like an addiction. Once you're hooked, it's hard to stop.
Personally, I see human and animals as part of one huge ecosystem. Within an ecosystem, there are prey and predators. Ex. Cats kill mice, mice kill big insects like crickets, those bigger insects kill smaller ones (that usually eat plants) etc. Maybe a poor choice but you can see how a food chain works. I believe that humans are part of the food chain, but I do believe that the mass consumption that we have implemented into our diets in disrupting that beautiful balance. (As well as pollution, industrialization, etc..) I do believe in eating meat but in no where near as large portions as we do, nor as often as we do. Usually people eat meat in every meal, bacon for breakfast, chicken in a salad for lunch, steak for dinner which is all extremely unneccessary.
I think it mostly has to do with the fact that we're a social species. We depend on each other for survival. If people ate people, society wouldn't survive. So naturally, our societies, and our mindsets, are molded in such a way to prevent that from happening.
I don't eat meat, and I think it's wrong regardless. But I still get far more uncomfortable about the concept of cannibalism than I do about meat eating.
That's a really good argument ngl
Well the thing is not what to eat - meat or "grass". The thing is that animals have feelings just like humans and plants can't feel. How do I justify meat eating? Simple. It is the food chain. I will eat that pork but maybe a lion will eat me at some point. You can never know. Meat eating is ok. But it is not ok hunting animals just to brag about it.
I'm not against vegans or vegetarians, I just think that they shouldn't command me or "promote" what to eat.
It mostly comes down to spent calories versus gained calories. It costs a lot of energy to get a human and kill it to eat it. When it comes to a rabbit or a cow its much more energy efficient. Of course this a very simple biological argument.
There are lots of social and cultural aspects to this as well. I dont believe its a suitable survival strategy to eat humans, but animals yes. Ultimately all civilization is built on agriculture of some kind. Existing without farm animals for consumption is barbarism for me.
Incisors at fruit, canines at meat, molars at fibrous vegetation, and complete mastication. Omnivores, we are and spread throughout every climate over the face of our planet Earth. What goes into one's mouth sustains their physique, what comes out of one's mouth sustains relationships with one another.
Balance is a natural state and the eating of carion or prey be it human or any other specie causes an effect which then nature brings into balance.
No good or bad.
It's a preference for the experience one will have undergone tandem with nature's way toward balance.
Some animals are made to eat others, others are made to be eaten. That's the natural order of things. Just because we figured out a highly effective way of getting our food doesn't make it wrong. Others would do the same thing if they could. There already is a type of ant that has mastered animal husbandry.
The reason for it being morally wrong to eat humans, is not just a cultural taboo, but in fact has health reasons. You shouldn´t eat your own species, because of the risk for diseases to spread. Remember Creuzfeld-Jacobs disease aka Mad cow disease? That happenend because cows and sheep were fed meat powder made from their own species.
I have nothing against Vegetarians /Vegans or what ever else non meat eaters call themselves.
They can eat what ever, I would like same attitude from them, but I see so many of them these days, who act like Jahova witness or Mormons, they try to push their believes on to you, why?
Those videos, forgot to mention few aspects about eating people:
You can go to jail for it and for very long time.
Animals are killed healthy not dead of natural courses, as it could be bad health condition and could be containges or old and not taste good.
Those videos only asking guiding questions, that prove nothing...
About eating pets, go to Asian countries they eat them there and all bugs too.
I eat meat and not even plan to stop.
Just watch this video:
https://youtu.be/z0O_VYcsIk8
I've heard that for humans to eat other humans eventually leads to the human form of mad cow disease. Anyway, humans tend to eat far more meat than they're supposed to, and they're constantly bombarded with commercials about who has the biggest beef sandwich (and the sandwiches ARE actually getting bigger each year) or a pizza that has 6 different kinds of meat on it. If humans just reduced their meat consumption to what it should be, it would be a dramatic drop in meat consumption.
I'm not even willing to consider any argument that comes from hardcore vegans. What's next? Debating with a flat earther and calling it a great idea?
Vegans can go fuck themselves with their idea of who is a hypocrite and who is not.
If tens of thousands of evolutionary psychology didn't teach them what's the difference between eating meat of food animals, eating human meat and eating meat of pets... I think any debate with them is useless.
People went Vegan (not to be confused for vegetarian) on the principle of protesting the unethical practice towards life forms by meat factories. they abstain from more than meat including any produce by animal period. (milk, eggs, cheese.) it's not a diet it's a protect for the factory to change it's practice.
See in reply the TL:DR
TLDR:
Humanity is irresponsible by nature, and like many persons who will answer this have one message.
- We are wasting 90% of the food we harvest and eating 10% of the food we harvest.
That means we eat only 10% of all the animals we kill as a bi-product of capitalism (see capitalism market saturation, supply and demand for more)
The solution to this problem is build live farms where animals are killed to be served fresh to the customer, this was the original farmer practice back in the middle-ages there planet had too much food and could sustain as much humans as 10 folds of today. but something happened in the recent few decades, trading has become the center point of economics and power.
In pursuit of wealth market saturation was the quickest way to dominate any given market, this model was quickly popularized and applied to electronics, gadgets, clothes, and food, etc.. (see Walmart strategy 10 years ago and now for more on market saturation).
Normally in socialist economies for every resource gathered a product is developed, and every resource provider is responsible to generate it i. e. (old fashioned farming).
Fast-forward to today, (exclude chickens for now) you see ducks, geese, and other wild life is slaughtered by hunters who like the hunt, who in-turn sell the meat or give it to the hungry this product is not replaced in the wild, when it comes to wild chicken farming produces them at much lower ratio so they stand to lose if they supply the market on per-customer request which causes wait-time... in the early days they solved this problem by Bazaar model. where you kill only what you think you will sell, if you undersold charging a higher price covers your loss and then some, if you under produced you have a good day.. you earned your keep.
So how can you become a greedy crazy billionaire with chicken? you reduce the cost to produce chicken by producing uncontrolled amounts of chicken very quickly with as cheap as possible methods unethically if it takes and then you ship that product all over the place in every bazaar at prices no one can provide because your chicken is virtually worth nothing to produce. and you're selling it at the price a wild raised proper chicken - 10 cents. everyone buys your stuff. you make a lot of money all the farmers go home... now of the 10k chickens produced that month 1000 are sold 9000 are waste or shipped frozen abroad what have you. the factory expenses are covered if you sell 500 chickens because they eat plastic chem food and confined in a giant metal cage with no conditioning.
That is because meat product expires in 3 days (7 if chemically processed and stored in ideal conditions) the expiration cycle, rotation, and transportation logistics will always cause this for ALL meat products.
Beef is more expensive to produce so the waste is more costly what did the factory owners do? reduce waste? of course not they just increased the price to shift the cost to the right (economic lingo for charge the customer to offset expenses).
In the US today you will not find any other meet than Chicken or Beef as standard if you try to find bunny, pigeon, or other animals it's considered a luxury / crime to eat albeit that fact it's the healthiest meat of all.
Back to the main question. you have nearly 20000 worth of Cattle slain and not consumed by human, who did you produce and kill those animals for? mind you that Animals are not vegetables and there is an ethical boundary crossed when you help create thousands of living breathing creatures and then kill them just as easily and carelessly.
Neither your religion nor your government will do anything about the ethical dilemma because in the land of capitalism the money has spoken loudest. the Animal rights activists PETA shot themselves in the foot and started attacking their own (they're following money too). so the Vegan movement is born.
We don't eat cats and dogs for two reasons. Firstly we view them as animals that serve us rather than prey items and the second is their meat smells and tastes awful. I can confirm from witnessing post mortems on dogs they smell terrible inside.
Historically humans have eaten other worldwide. Changes in religious beliefs put an end to it but theirs no reason to think we couldn't return should a new faith emerge.
They eat dogs in the far east somewhere?
@Stradivarius69 Cats also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_meat
There is nothing wrong with the tastes and smells of the meats it's just a cultural taboo just like with pork.
Simply, humans are the only animals on Earth that are endowed with self-hood. ie a sense of self. There are clearly other animals with a very high level of consciousness, but probably not a sense of self. As a pesky pescetarian, I believe humans should be conscious of what they eat. Because, 'you are what you eat', and 'let food by thy medicine', etc.
Well first I’ll answer the question the the title. The reason it’s taboo to eat humans rather than animals is because of the concept of the soul. In ancient times the idea was used to separate us from the animals. Humans had souls. Animals didn’t. It was key to the agricultural revolution when animals were first domesticated, and the idea is deeply sown into our culture to this day. Thus people are easier to empathize with because of a deep rooted human centric bias.
Many animals are cannibals: spiders, sharks, scorpions, salamanders, mantises, rats and several other rodents, even some species of monkeys.
Why is it wrong in humans? Well, unlike animals, humans have a social structure based on certain rules of ethics. Unfortunately, most of the human ethic rules don't apply on animals.
Eating your own species is not beneficial for that species in general, and that's why vegans can't realistically compare eating meat of other species to cannibalism.
Becouse eating our own species is canivalism, and that's no good, we but hedgehogs are much MUCH worse, they eat their BABIES, so yeah, also animals eat other animals, and some don't, it's just in their nature, ok? Also erm, I don't like vegitables very much soooo... Yeh I'm gonna stick to eating some bacon on a bagel with cheese at school
The short answer is yes
Every single human is superior and worth more than any animal or insect according to society
Also that morality comes religion as god gave humans all to eat but said not to eat humans
Here's several arguments the vegetarians and vegans have:
1. What determine superiority? Is it intelligence, innocence or feelings? It can't be intellience, because of intellectual disabled people exists and some aren't scoring higher than others species. It can't be innocence because of criminals. We've murderers, rapists etc. It can't be feeling of pain because of animals can also feel pain and not every humans can feel pain because of a medical condition. So should eating criminals, intellectual disabled and people unable to feel pain be eaten as well?
2. There's no evidence for or against god's existence, in addition we don't know what god wants. So how do we know what's right and wrong, and that moral comes from a totalitarian power?
1. It comes partly from intelligence but just because a person is disabled doesn’t automatically make them lower on the food chain. Second its conscious awareness. Humans, even if retarted and stupid, are fully aware of their existence and have the ability to ask why? Animals and insects dont. Finally while someone may be retarted lets say they still have a family that loved and cares for them. Same way you wouldn't eat a family pet dog
2. Whether god exists or not. Obejective morality and our current western laws are baked in with religious morals and ethics that came centuries ago. God said not to eat humans and whether we like it or not that has influenced our decisions today
Regardless if its true or not
Domestic pets are raised to be domestic pets. Meat animals are raised for their meat (milk and eggs too, in some cases. God gave man dominion over the beasts of the Earth.
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth". Gen 1:26
Check out "Answers in Genesis". answersingenesis. org
Eating your own species causes diseases like mad cow disease.
My argument against veganism is that it is unsustainable for the whole population. 100s of animals need to be killed to protect crops anyway. So you may as well make use of those animals.
It’s because humans are sentient.
Sentience is the main factor in deciding what is and isn’t morally acceptable to eat.
The sentience debate is ongoing.
If I were in a situation like that I would give the others permission to use me for survival if I die of starvation or whatever.
I don’t think I could bring myself to eat a person even if they gave me permission in that situation.
I would sooner eat myself.
Because we’re sentient we can understand these situations and because we’re humans we can understand each other.
If hunting or gathering is an option then there’s absolutely no excuse for cannibalism. 😆
A person might be vegetarian or vegan but humans are biologically omnivores and are built to survive on meat and plant based food. Animals will also eat other animal species but seldom eat their own unless starving extremely. It's the same thing with humans. Pushed far enough, we would not object as easily (though we might regret it later).
Because we aren't meant to. It causes much higher disease rates, one case we can point to is Kuru.
Also animals don't eat their species based on instinct. When two lions fight to the death the victor doesn't eat the loser. It's because he knows better.
Let me say this world is fucked because of the same damn people if you wanna eat meat kill yourself then eat your meat. Leave innocent animals alone you can survive without killing animals for food. India is a shithole killing ducks for food pathetic It's disgusting how shitty this world has become & more to come
Eating the same species is usually frowned upon. Some mothers eat they own offspring if she can sense they are sick or unfit to live. Survival of the fittest (Darwin Theory) Human don't do that because they have emotional connection even to the unborn baby. They feel a bond to other humans. Usually Cannibalismus is linked to a sick and twisted mind. Psychopaths and serial killers. It does something to your mind and risk infection and diseases.
They do care about their young. It's why they do it so the predators don't find her, or the rest of her young. She does it to survive. Humans don't need to do any drastic measures because we are technically on top of the food chain.
If we went out and killed a animal by our own hands then it would be right. How ever it's not without reason all the leaders had an emergency meeting not long ago because of all the meat we eat, it's destroying the world. Not to stop eating meat, or at least stop eating as much to save the world and the future, now that is the way to go.
because evolution made us that way
I think it's a cultural matter. Most cultures decided not to eat humans, the same way Indian doesn't eat cows.
If we didn't have animals close by, I believe we would end up eating eachother
I don't justify eating meat, seafood, or dairy. I don't ask Vegans, Vegetarians, or Pescetarians to justify their lifestyle choice and I don't expect to qualify mine!!!
Lol are you offering to be the first meal then? Beware lot of strange people on this site don't give them ideas.
In the words of the great Homer Simpson, "If God didn't want us to heat animals, He wouldn't have made them so tasty"
Simples...
Some people finds pleasure in murdering, raping etc., yet it's considered wrong in our society. So perhaps what people finds pleasure and disgusts from are entirely subjective?
Pretty much. Although the rapists and murderers could benefit from the drop...
It causes a several nerve problems, starting with shaking hands, ending with inoperable brain damage... many have done it, all got the same problems, its a security in our own dna to not eat each other
You still kill animals when you eat vegetables, you deprive them of land. The fact of the matter is with the exception of a few species like dogs, humans and animals cannot cooperate but can only compete.
We don't eat human because it could harm you a tribe was suffering from severe illnesses due to eating humans but not necessarily the meat they would also eat the brain and that's where they got their severe illnesses from. Anthropology 101 😋
Because humans have conscience and are the same specie as you. It's just like joining the army and asking why it's wrong to shoot your own squad but not the enemies. Also lion doesn't eat lion, bear doesn't eat bear.
Early Neanderthal man ate berries, plants etc.
When they discovered tools/weapons, they started eating meat.
Science attributes that to developing bigger brains.
They started walking upright and developed group living.
Because there isn't enough Tabasco sauce in the world to mask the taste of humans you idiot, otherwise you would be the first freezer fill.
Eating humans is actually a really terrible idea since its a great way to spread diseases.
I would go vegetarian if I could but I don’t think I’d be able to be healthy with it so I just try to cut down meat instead
Honestly if there was canabilisum in a thought out way you could abolish world hunger so that's my opinion
Eating humans itself is not intrinsically wrong. The act of eating humans without consent is the problem.
How aware are animals about things like death or aware they’re a thing?
eating humans is wrong in every sense... how can one think these things... how can u eat yourselves... animals was not fully intended for us to eat... but after th flood Yah allow certain animals to be eaten for awhile
What's the hardest part of a vegetable to eat?
The wheelchair.
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