What can be done about the male suicide rate, and why is it treated as either a joke or not that big of a deal?

Question

In the UK 12 men die daily to suicide. In the US 129 men die per day due to suicide. More than 4 times the rate of women.

- The age-adjusted suicide rate in 2017 was 14.0 per 100,000 individuals.
- The rate of suicide is highest in middle-aged white men in particular.
- In 2017, men died by suicide 3.54x more often than women.
- On average, there are 129 suicides per day.
- White males accounted for 69.67% of suicide deaths in 2017.
- In 2017, firearms accounted for 50.57% of all suicide deaths.

My question is what can we do to combat it?

Society puts so much pressure on men to be the protectors, the providers, the super hero.. And we live in a society where traditionally masculine things are called toxic, Where every action we make is seen as harmful. In a world where you are seen as the enemy if you have a penis between your legs, its no wonder it happens as often as it does.

Additionally mental health lines, suicide hot lines, domestic violence hotlines are all geared toward women. Its an incredibly rare thing to see a counselor that actually knows how to help guys (in my case i lucked out and found one)..

“Only women, children and dogs are loved unconditionally. A man is only loved under the condition that he provide something.” — Chris Rock

https://afsp.org/suicide-statistics/

Barbaric · Accepted Answer

This topic always pisses me off, because in my opinion people mostly read it in the wrong way completely, and therefore seek the wrong solutions.

Right now I've not even looked at the replies of others here. I don't have to because it's all so predictable. I know that it will be a bunch of stuff about men feeling free to show their emotions and how traditional masculinity is to blame. That's what I mean by people reading this in the wrong way.

So, here's a man. He's depressed, and this is the point where he needs to show his feelings and seek help right? Okay. Why is he depressed? He's not depressed because he can't show his feelings. The point where he need to show his feelings is when he's depressed. Something else caused the depression. Something came before that point. People miss that part and jump straight to the part where they think the solution is for men to cry more or something.

Talking about the need for men to show feelings and how that causes depression is like talking about people, in a society full of smokers, needing better treatments for lung cancer because too many people are dying from lung cancer and claiming that that's the reason they're dying from lung cancer - without even addressing the fact that everybody is smoking a pack a day. Too much focus on the cure and not the cause/prevention, ensuring that things never actually get better at all.

You mentioned toxic masculinity and the idea that many natural male behaviours are viewed as being toxic, and I think that's a huge cause of this, despite many people claiming that it's that which causes it. This is why it pisses me off so much, because it seems to me that either these people don't say those things because they genuinely give a shit about men, but because they have certain political ideas that they want to push - or they're just stupid. Then, they push for more of the very thing that causes men to feel depressed and want to top themselves in the first place, while implying that men are stupid not to do so. It's completely backwards to me.

Gabrielkatz795 · Accepted Answer

I think that at the end of the day society is fighting the wrong things. We fight over rights and privileges in society. We should be fighting for equity more than equility. Men and woman should be equal but threw their own needs. I think the biggest problem we have is not allowing men to speak up about their problems and their issues we're just mocked and made fun of. And it's hard to find a person who listens because most men don't as they have the same problem. We should encourage the help and support towards men not just woman

leahzrc · Accepted Answer

where is my unconditional love id like to see that chris rock. I've been in treatment before and of the majority of suicidal guys that i have spoken to, they were not super masculine and ashamed of it. they tried so hard to be that masculine chad figure but didn't feel man enough. they werent incels, but they were guys who didn't couldnt be what people expected from them. they were great friends to me and i could tell they didn't hate females, they hated themselves because of other guys. the ones that were more objectifying to me were usually the drug addicted ones. i do think that if a white women is suicidal, they will watch out for her more, but for anyone else, it won't be taken as seriously because i guess they think guys need to man up and that women of other backgrounds just don't concern them because of some sort of racism that they neglect. when life is hard, people can't be expected to just man up, they need help. As much as someone doesn't want help, it's okay to need it. People can't control themselves when they are suffering. the doctors and other adults in the facilities didn't take me seriously because they were more focused on me being a threat. If you speak about thoughts that could harm others, they don't care if you want to kill yourself, so i noticed that some guys have mentioned harming others but it wasn't what they actually wanted, they wanted help but saying something scary or threatening will distract from anyone wanting to actually help you

Shy_701116 · Accepted Answer

It is really sad, that people would want to give up there lives and it makes you wonder why? Like is your life that bad? Or some people just arnt in the right mind set, I guess... but I dont like to talk about it because it just makes me SOOOO SAD!!! and UPSET, but it's good to get a slap of reality sometimes.

OlderAndWiser · Answer

I'm not sure that we can do anything for the guys who are already adults. We need to change these attitudes at a very early age.

hellionthesagereborn · Answer

Well, its hard to say as their are individualistic aspects to it as well as the broader masculine ones.

Having done some research on this in the past I do know that suicides have increased for men from the sixties onward (they began dipping a bit in, I believe it was, the late 90s but by that point they had already climbed significantly higher). So that's an indicator of why its higher now (though wouldn't tell us everything as even prior to that mens rates where higher then women's).

I think their are multiple factors, the ones that you cannot control are that men are simply greater risk takers and are able to compartmentalize then women. This means they are able to push aside their fear better then women and are more likely to attempt to kill themselves (Yes I know, women are going to say, "But women attempt more", however you will note that in all those "attempts", the overwhelming majority don't actually attempt it i. e. they let others know that they are going to kill themselves, they take slow acting approaches etc. all things that allow for the opportunity for some one to step in and save them, men do not. This is because when some one wants to die, they don't play games, many women who "attempt" only attempt as a means to draw attention to themselves and seek help not escape life unlike men.). This is beyond our control to change so their is nothing we can do about that.

That said as I pointed out we know that a lot of the suicides where avoidable, that they are a product of changes to society which again, started around the fifities and sixties. So what changed in those time periods? Well we have the post modernist movements and feminism, as well as a radical shift in technology and law/society.

In short we know that feminism and postmodernism has put ever increasing demands on men. This means that women demand that men be traditional in all ways. Now that in and of itself isn't a bad thing, its what dragged us out of the stone age and brought us into the most peaceful and safest times our species has ever known. The problem is that society has decided that men have to make all the sacrifices and women get the respect and privilege that comes with men's sacrifices as well as all the respect and privileges that women get with none of their traditional responsibilities.

LVbrando85 · Answer

Men have to take responsibility for our lives. We have to do this by creating our own narratives and deciding what we think is enough for US and pursue that. If you allow others to dictate your worth and try to continually add up to their expectations, you'll find that you fail most of the time. There aren't a lot of road maps on how to become a man. It's hard to figure out on your own. If you dont have an example or someone to point you in the right direction, you figure it out late in life. If you ever figure it out at all. I Think that the standards for life, careers, and dating are much different for men and women. Most men would only be put off by potential spouses if they are perhaps over weight or have children out of wed lock. But in terms of other life categories we are pretty open minded about who we date and our criteria for dating. We just want you to bring something to the table and be loyal. I dont know of any guy who would dismiss a hard working woman just because she didn't go to college or doesn't make over 42k a year. I think that women are looking for men to achieve a lot. Such as having a college degree, you usually have to be tall and in shape, and make good money. Also to be knowledgeable about most things pertaining to life, and critical thinking. Lots of ladies want someone they can show off and brag about. But thats not the average guy. Most men are practical and simple. a lot of young men are under achieving today and aren't keeping up with the ladies. Pair this with finally finding someone only to be divorced after 3-5 years of marriage, paying alimony, child support and perhaps giving up half of what you had. Even if you had it prior to meeting your spouse. I'm above average height, in good shape and make pretty good money. But I have friends who complain about the standards that ladies are looking for. Lets not get started about sex lmao. When I was younger, it took a toll on my self esteem because I didn't know what I was doing and relationships ended quickly because of it. I didn't start until I was 20yrs old. Some people take time to get into a groove. I know what I'm doing now and life is great, but thinking back on it now, ladies aren't so forgiving of slow starters lmao. And if a guy hasn't achieved much by a certain age in terms of career, money, house, girl friend etc. It takes a toll mentally, emotionally and eventually effects him sexually. All of this is internalized and festers over time. I find that a lot of men are much more sensitive and mentally fragile today than we used to be and dont seem to have the mental fortitude to keep going even when things aren't working out. Sticking with it until they find the right girl, career, and life style. Especially when you put a time frame on it. Most seem to think they should have it all together before 28-30yrs old. For some it just hasn't happened and they start to compare themselves to others and end up in a dark place. I dont think there's enough support for men today in terms of having a way to vent and let out frustrations.

SomeGUYonGAG · Answer

Okay, here we go

We need to stop putting so much societal pressure on men. We make it seem as if all men are expected to
Loose your virginity in High School
Have tons of sex with tons of women
Move of of parents by age 20
Have a car
Have a career that pays a good salary
Be physically and mentally tough
Have a good education
Be tall and good looking
The list could go on

When you look at the guys who do commit suicide, they're usually not rich, they don't have wives or girlfriends, they don't have good jobs, NO, they're usually broke working a shitty job if they're even employed at all and they've been starved of love and affection because they can't find any.

I know because this happened to me. When I was 19, after 2 years of filling out thousands of job applications and during a psychotic phase I felt like a waste on this Earth and everything was rigged against me and I don't have the right to live. So I swallowed an entire box of pain killers and went to sleep expecting not to wake up again. When I woke up and saw that I survived I didn't know whether to see it as a blessing or a curse and spent 2 years as a hermit living with my parents with no job or live, and just earlier this year I decided to take my life back.

When a man doesn't meet the requirements then he has to deal with a lot of shit for not reaching the standards of a "real man".

It's not really the shit they have said directly to them i person, it's mostly about what they hear other people say, like when one of those ultra Conservative shitbag radio show hosts says something like "If a man is still living with his parents after 18 he's a loser and his parents need to throw him out on the street."
So before you disparage a guy for his living situation, think about what I just said and remember that everyone has their own individual problems and not all of them are your business.

Also, I have to do it, sorry I just have to because it's true no matter what you think it just is. WOMEN, ladies you need to stop degrading men for your sick pleasure. I know not all women do it but some do and they're causing a lot of issues. Some men are fragile and they don't need the opposite gender that they're desperately trying to attract to demean them on things they're sensitive about. This goes for degrading them on their looks, height, job, money, sexuality, penis size (I'm serious) and what not.
Ladies, your words hurt more to men. It's true, when it comes from other guys it's one thing, but when it's coming from women it feels so much worse because these guys are trying their best to attract you (as all guys do) and you're just putting them down, ouch!
I'm not telling women to bend the knee to incels and have sex with them or anything like that, I'm telling women to be nicer and not put men down, SO DON'T YOU DARE MISCONSTRUE WHAT I'M SAYING!
So before you say things like "Men under 6' tall are o more than just friends" or "Guys working at McDonald's have no chance" or "guys who live with their parents are total losers and aren't good enough", think about the that guy you've said that to or around or saw your social media post about it and he's going through deep personal issues and is thinking about ending himself.

So basically what I'm saying is, don't disparage guys for not living up to be a "real man", everyone has issues and it's OK to go through those, shit happens. Also watch what you say, I'm not calling for censorship, I'm just asking you to chose what you say carefully because something you say could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for someone out there and the words that came out of your mouth could be the words that makes a man out himself.

akihon · Answer

Well then to argue this, I agree that it's an issue, it's a bigger issue because to date almost all of the male focussed groups that have existed to serve only men to give them a space to actually talk about their issues have been closed by feminist groups.

Men's sheds
Male only
Male bonding
Male suicide
Male... Insert name here...

They have been closed down by feminist groups alleging terrorist activity, sexual exploitation, grooming young men, ignoring and excluding women. They have been ordered to include women by courts on grounds of males together don't actually talk about their issues but discuss business and when they are doing that in a male space they exclude women and their ability to earn as much as men.

They have closed down some because in some cases men have been abused by women but talking about those issues I'd mysoginystic and harmful to women everywhere.

They have been closed down because feminist groups have sued for funding meaning that the men's groups lost out and couldn't survive.

So if you really want to solve the issue or even begin to solve the issue stop feminists having the upper hand in courts, stop them diverting funding away from men's issues into fighting about shaving legs or not.

Obtuse · Answer

I consider it a big deal but it's not the type of thing for which an effeminate, "awww, poor baby!" kind of approach is all that effective in my opinion (it at least won't be for me). If anything makes me want to jump off a cliff, it's this whole kind of participation medal-awarding, safe-space, sympathy-happy culture that's becoming prevalent. It makes me a bit irritated to see a former bleeding-heart feminist like Cassie Jaye redirect her bleeding heart from one type of victimhood mindset to another.

I find this super-soft way too disconnected from the harsh nature of reality, and I figure anyone who has reached a psychological rock bottom is having a hard time coping with the nature of reality against their expectations. They might feel helpless in some way. Someone who has really reached that all-time low probably needs a helping hand, but from a professional who knows what they're doing and understands that males and females are not identical here.

If anything might keep people from venturing that route, I like a lot of the classically masculine ways for men. That doesn't necessarily focus on shaming men for being soft and weak. It certainly doesn't encourage men to be soft. The ideal way as I see it is not to demand a man to be strong but to teach him that he already is: that he possesses the resources already to turn his life around for the better -- or at least he can die trying. We don't treat him like a baby. We treat and support him like a man. We respect him as a man -- not a superhero, and as a flawed human being like everyone else -- but one who has the internal resources to make his life better.

cunnilinguist · Answer

Very simple. Females should start doing their jobs instead of making up excuses, like "I have a headache". Frustration caused by bad sex (incompatibility, poor quality, insufficient quantity, etc.) is why about 50% of marriages end in divorce (and pretty much 95% of non-marital relationships, which is the majority of all relationships, end in breaking up) in most countries. The other 50% is made up of separated couples and others that stay together only because they have kids, financial reasons, what others / family will think, because they don't like change, because they've gotten used to each other, they're afraid to be alone again, etc. not because they're happy.

Nearly no two people in a marriage are together because they're happy and not frustrated with each other sexually. Nearly every single man on this planet spends at least one period (more often longer than shorter) and most spend many periods where they live in daily sexual frustration, which slowly consumes them and spreads to affect every area of their lives. They lose motivation, they underperform in their jobs, they get fired, they'll plunge into depression, and then people are surprised why so many give up on life.

The solution is simple, good sex fixes pretty much everything in a man's life. With good sex comes a healthy mental life, where the man will be motivated to be his best, maintain good health, achieve things and be productive. They will be motivated to make their wives happy, to work for that promotion, to buy that house and buy her those flowers or that necklace.

Yet it seems playing their little games is more important to women than seeing their man happy. Men kept in frustration is why we have so many wars on this planet. What kind of a man would want to leave home and go to a war to kill people instead of staying home to get 5 blowjobs every day?

TommyLee73 · Answer

The problem is this world is fucked up. The amount of people on anti depressants is ridiculous. The world has changed a lot over the last 100 years. 99.9% of us are slaves working our entire life away to buy shit we don't need because were taught that's what will make us happy and you're a loser if you don't. I remember the last stimulus checks. Bush was on tv telling everybody to go out and spend spend spend. We were not meant to live this way. I suffered from depression and the last thing I wanted to do was go tell a stranger all of my problems so he could pretend to care (because that's what they're paid to do) and put me on medicine to keep me from thinking. We can't have everybody going around thinking that would be bad for the people in charge. Depression isn't just a chemical imbalance people get depressed for a reason and it causes a chemical imbalance that makes it worse. It's a vicious cycle the worse you're depression gets the more your made to feel like a loser or your defective. You don't understand what's happening so you get more depressed. You have to get to the root cause of your depression. Most people don't know what it is. I figured out what mine was. I started taking actions to solve it and I felt 1000% better almost immediately. That's how I knew I was on the right path. I'm not trading my life away to play keeping up with the Jones's. Nothing is more valuable than my time. I can't get that back. If you're thinking you can't just quit your job well once I identified the problem it didn't take long to come up with a plan and put it into action. Everything is going better than I could have hoped for. With a clear goal in mind and the determination to reach it you can do anything. I'm living the dream and it will only get better for me.

willisg · Answer

When we turned our backs on God and started worshipping MONEY! It put the burden on the male ego. The normal ego not the abnormal ego.
A person with an abnormal ego is mostly selfish and they is not going anywhere. A male with a normal ego that's in a crazy money hungry world have hard time keeping up and that is just one layer of social problems. You Also have ( impatience ). When we the last time you tried to have a real and decent conversation or just wanting to tell someone something. People gives you about 1.5 seconds to spit what ever you want to say thn they will cut you off and change the subject.
People have absolutely no patience. Ok here's one selfishness, me me me me I , I, I, I, this is people how can people get help from the selfish.
I don't care, if you read all the material in the world your self about suicide you could get a Ph. d and still be useless because ignorance would be still there.
People put faith in every thing but people. People because non connected because of electronics devices that help us stay non connected when we are connected. We are connected more thn ever because we have the technology to do so but you can't hug touch cry kiss feel over electronics.
When someone is sad how can talking over a phone help?

TonyMetal_1986 · Answer

I have never encountered such a problem maybe because i'm a cave man but i do get annoyed a lot about the feminists advertisments and whining since i'm an anti feminist...

I never took men suicidal thoughts as a joke, actually i helo anyone who needs help, wether it's a man or a woman...

Now let me clarify something for you and for the whole audience in here, female suicidal rates are a lot more than men, more than double!

Women are a lot more suicidal than men, only a perfect intervention from a man who is close to the woman will makw her stop since women in general are emotional...

Men do get suicidal but the difference between men and women is that men are a lot more successfull in their suicidal attempt than women...

Women tend to use less lethal methods in their suicide attempt which leads to it's failure while men methods are a lot wilder and more lethal and that's why their suicidal attempt gets successfull...

If women succeeded in their attempts like men, you will realize that a very horrible number of women have committed suicide...

The only way to make this curve drop down is to love each other, listen to each other and care about each other...

Men and women should be able to seek the same help if they are suicidal because both are humans and both needs each other...

AzureGirl · Answer

Honestly? Guys need just as much attention and care to their mental health as women do. I know too many guys who are depressed but haven’t done anything about it because of personal or societal blocks. My fiancé has depression and on more than one occasion his mom has told him to “pop a pill and get over it.” That doesn’t help.
Outlook on men has to loosen up because a lot of times men have these high expectations to not be emotional or risk being called stupid things Like weak or gay just by being vulnerable and showing emotion. Guys showing human emotion without being bullied or judged should be more normalized.

Harleigh90 · Answer

Done a post a few days ago about how it's ok to not be ok. We do need to talk about it more, society has as this stigma on how men need to be, when in reality their human too and crying isn't a weakness.
We need to hear more about resources for men.

Poppymarie · Answer

I think the best thing we can do to help is stop making it taboo for men to share their feelings. Everyone needs someone who they can be vulnerable with and trust with their emotions; we all have feelings. I always encouraged my ex to be open with me and told him it wasn’t weak to cry (he later used it as a tool to manipulate me, but most normal people don’t do that). I think when we start making it ok to open up and providing men with a safe place to share their feelings we are truly fulfilling our role as wives and girlfriends.

jaybee281 · Answer

Feminism is sickness.. The order of society is changing without having any consideration to how our psych work.. As in men only care for a woman's looks and not being crazy he doesn't care about her job or anything while women would never go for a broke man or a man that makes less than she makes which is not a problem since that this is how our brain works but with feminism it becomes absurd since that women keep on asking for more jobs and more power at the expense of men as if ALL MEN ARE WORKING while in reality no country has enough jobs for every man on their own let alone men and women together which leads to women taking jobs at the expense of men and those men who don't have jobs are seen as not good enough and are forgotten by society and then we are asked why we hate feminism women should learn how to know themselves more before doing something that is already doing harm and will do more harm with time

lightbulb27 · Answer

I'll have to watch these. I think we need to get back to having male support like used to have, fathers, friends, activities for men, and training for men/boys in relationships and support. I'd wonder what part of this is military vs rest.

guys are being chewed up in this society of socially disconnected, and now socially distanced. Society comes up with all kinds of creative ideas and changes... doesn't mean they are healthy.

the suicide is simply a sign males are not handling the change in society. not their fault... its easy to force change, but it takes a long time to evolve emotionally.

maybe someone needs to write a motivation song on this topic?

Regmorus · Answer

The idea of man has to be strong no matter what should be recreated in the mind of men and in their perception of themselves (NOT put from outside but recreated naturally in THEIR OWN mind and self-perception) in order for that to be fixed. Because any measures from outside are just a childs game for nothing, actually to think "Oh I'm doing something to solve the problem!", to calm your conscience. The problems of today like that come from within.

Well it's irrealistic of course. This idea can't be recreated in any realistic scenario. But that is the only thing that would help. We messed up, and that's tip of the iceberg (one of the tips).

MountAverage · Answer

Teach boys at young age that it's completely fine, healthy, natural, and not in any way "unmanly" to cry and show emotions like sadness or despair and that there's no shame in asking for help. Raise them to be emotionally mature, open, self-critical, and that they don't have to be "tough" all the time and that being sensitive, kind, and empathetic are admirable and desirable traits in a man.
Simultaneously teach young girls to value and appreciate all of the above in boys/men and to never shame a man for not being (superficially) tough or for crying and showing supposed "weakness". Just teach which aspects of these traditional gender roles are unhealthy and TOXIC and why.

And of course - easy and cheap/free access to mental health institutions and therapy for everybody, and generally get rid of the social stigma of seeing a shrink. Teach kids that going to therapy is a good thing.

KrakenAttackin · Answer

Everything you say is true. This is ironclad proof of the gynocracy and the fact that no one cares about men, at all. Can you imagine if suicide rates were reversed? There would be national task forces, huge social programs, all kinds of outreach. Men would not allow women to commit suicide in such numbers, we would do all we could to stop it.

This convinces me that womens depth of emotion in "love" is much shallower than men's. Women who have fathers, husbands, brothers, and sons; but don't see suicide of men as a problem.

BCA6010 · Answer

The US doesn't take mental health seriously at all, especially if it's something that can supposedly be medicated into submission, and a lot of those solutions push people to suicide themselves.

So the first step would be to give a damn.

Another problem is that the media culture in the US has gotten comically anti-male and anti-white, so anything that can be even loosely considered a "man" or "white" problem won't ever get any public attention when it's more effective rile people up talking about "those poor Hispanic refugees at the border" or pushing blatantly false narratives about how homosexuals and people of color can't be successful in western civilization capitalism.

genericname85 · Answer

i guess the problem is that notion that you must fix your issues yourself. and that really is something that is super important for our society to function. suicide in men is the other side of that same medal. it is impossible to get rid of one side while keeping the other.

i think what is already done about it does help and could be expanded. rise awareness, that mental health is something that needs constant maintenance like a car needs constant maintenance so that it doesn't break down.

people in general don't see their psyche as something that needs maintenance. that's the problem i think. and then the male specific problem is that they asssume it's their problem, that they wanna fix themselves, which isn't always possible.

What can be done about the male suicide rate, and why is it treated as either a joke or not that big of a deal?

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