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What can be done about the male suicide rate, and why is it treated as either a joke or not that big of a deal? (Page 2)
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Help men. Treat 'em right.
The usual answer is some BS about encouraging men to share more and seeking support and therapy. But these things are geared toward women. Women in particular essentially act like men just need to be more like women and they'll be fine. Well firstly, women don't want men to act like that, but more importantly, it doesn't work. Men function differently and suffer in different ways, the cause and the treatment is distinct. Only recently are we seeing more people gear there treatments toward men. But that doesn't even fix the real problems. What needs addressing are the real issues that eventually bring men to suicide.
I think there needs to be better male support team. I agree when men say that there isn't enough support.
Also, men tend to choose methods of extreme chance of dying. Like a bullet to the head, hanging or jumping off somewhere. Whereas girls choose methods that leave room for help, like cutting, pills etc. So that's a big reason men suicide is higher.
But I still think there needs to be support teams for them. Like a hotline for men or groups that speak with men about issues they may be facing. Talking g abohtnones issues does a lot of good and sometimes, a person just needs someone to listen to them. I think group support is a great way to help men with their issues, especially when it's with other men with issues similar to there's.
Us women are often treated as the "weak" gender while men are supposed to me "strong and masculine" That's exactly the reason that women and man are being treated differently when they cry or when they feel insecure about their body etc.
I'm not really sure what can be done to solve this problem, except of course having an easier access to therapy or a more understanding society.
Yes exactly and as a society we have to be accepting men as emotional beings also yes some men won't agree that but they are everybody is vulnerable we have to help each other out in times of need.
If you feel that man is having depression or something or you feel his gonna di something to himself talk to hkm and distract or at least inform some authorities, because some people are saying here that they dig there own graves by doing past mistakes and injustices to women so they are not going to understand now while men are changing there views and helping out women aswell long story short help the needy forget its which sex, the battle will always continue.
Society does not tolerate men who readily show their feelings. Women give men expressing emotions lip service, but the reality is she will be horribly repulsed. Women might tolerate random men talking about their feelings, but they do not tolerate their BF/Husband doing so.
Most women do tolerate them
No they don't. Almost every women I know hs left their boyfriend or husband once they stayed showing emotions to the their female partner. In a womans eyes, seeing a man cry is weakness and unconsciously, the woman feels no longer safe and protected by the male because he is no longer showing and providing the protection needed. It's not a womans fault. It's a normal defense adaptation. That's why so many get repulsed by their partner crying. A female won't care much about a random guy crying because that man is not significant or her protector in life.
You have no idea how much id give to help women in my life who need it and you'll never guess how many wouldn't do the same for me.
@Daylight7550 Spot on correct.
@Daylight7550 couldn't have said it better man
@jaybee281 completely agree.
The problem is systematic discrimination against men. This is so counter to our brainwashing here in the west, that it sounds absurd, and people are gunna hate on me for saying this
But it's true. The chris rock quote is pretty accurate. If you were to bring race into the equation, you'd find that white men overwhelmingly are the ones committing suicide.
Then you look at what's being taught in schools and in pop culture, about how white men are evil, etc...
Why wouldn't we kill ourselves? We aren't wanted.
I also do not cry and commit suicide only because i am hated in muslim communities. The female suicide rate is very high in muslim communities. I also tried to commit suicide but realize it is stupid and i do not have symphaty with white people who choose what they want while i can't even choose my partner. Sorry but white man problems are ridiculous. I would not commit suicide only because i am not wanted. How ridiculous is that?
@hi_it_is_me123 I am not pro-suicide, I am white and have no intention of doing anything of the sort. You may not be able to choose your partner, but you are wanted and are valued. That's more than the average white man can say these days
The majority of the suicides are caused by depression. It’s the number one cause of suicide. Depression isn’t a joke. You cannot snap out of it and make no mistake It’s very deadly. The cause is the stigma and lack of education about the disease. Men are seen as weak if they see a psychiatrist or they’re chastised for being unable to snap out of it. I was by my ex wife. I was told by a co-worker that I must not be able to handle real life. None of this is true and there’s no shame in having it. It’s caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain namely dopamine, serotonin and noropinepherin. This is what the drugs do is try to restore the balance. I’m no different than someone with diabetes. Like them I’m under a Drs care, I take meds and I try to live with it on a daily basis the best I can. I didn’t do anything to cause it just like someone with MS didn’t cause theirs
i don't think men need less responsibility.
If anything they need more responsibility, but also support in carrying the load.
There IS a lot of pressure on men. But they need to be in community with other supportive men. I get this in church. I also receive unconditional love from my Creator.
That's right. "I don't need a lighter load, I need broader shoulders".
If i were to guess, id day you're well aware of how seriously suicide is taken and that few people ever get away with joking about it, you just wanted to use the subject to express how victimized you personally feel and how you feel no one listens to you as a man.
Im dont suggest this to undermine your character, only to point it out as potential reason why some see your post as tasteless and poorly formed. Im sure you have legitimate concerns and feelings you feel afraid to honestly express without shielding them behind a much more recognizable and accepted struggle, namely suicide.
My asessment may be incorrect but these are the conclusions i drew from what you've said. And especially from the updates. Just know that whatever greivances you feel have been levied upon you for no other reason than the fact you have a penis, know that there are almost certainly other factors involved, and that you are likely exceedingly more priviledged than you realize at this point.
well a theory that just came to mind, that we're used to warrior culture (white euro), so we're already used to having a smaller male than female population due to male deaths, not to mention suicidal tendencies tend to grow as you age, maybe a trait for a veteran soldier saving a young one.
Now we have the full herd without traditional values, and not a warrior culture anymore, then we wonder why it's throwing people for a loop, millenniums of evolution for that style of culture came to a halt. Some people aren't engineered for this style of society
but that's my theory
My understanding of the data is that there are more suicide attempts from women, but more successful suicides from men, because they're more likely to use something like a gun and less likely to use something like pills. So if you're trying to eliminate the disparity, my honest suggestion would be stricter gun control regulations. That also explains the disparity between the UK and the US.
If you're trying to reduce attempts, I would say we need to do everything in our power to de stigmatize mental health problems, and make it socially acceptable for someone to see a therapist and be open about it, even if there's nothing wrong. If I can afford it, each of my kids is going to see a therapist basically from the time they can talk. It's a good thing for everyone, and it can really help prevent people from reaching a point where they believe that suicide is the only option.
women seek attention
men actually kill themselves
@Shamalien No. Suicide attempts aren't just cries for attention. They take pills that are actually lethal. But they're just often found before it works. Take into account that it's also largely teenagers and young people who don't have their own place to live, and it makes a lot of sense.
Interviews that have been done basically say that women think more about how they want to die, not just that they do. Women are less likely to want something violent, as they prefer to imagine their death as something peaceful and painless. It makes sense that they would choose a method where they would be unconscious before they actually died.
Men are more likely to use guns because they're less opposed to violence. Also, there are just more men who own guns. In the US, for every 22 women who own a gun, there are 39 men who own a gun. Availability is also a factor.
Not everything is a competition. And also, getting help isn't a bad thing. I'd much rather someone cry for attention than actually go through with killing themselves. But that's not what this is about. Men and women just think about their death in different ways.
Have you seen the second video properly you are acting like same that how she argued that women were incapable to suicide which is not the point the issue is of social responsibility and mental health to prevent both of them doing it
@Aakash_Hangargi Is your comment addressed at me or at the other person? I never said that women are incapable of it. The methods that women tend to use are truly lethal. They're just slower, which leads to an increased risk that they'll be found. But there are still many who aren't. And there are also plenty of women who use guns and plenty of men who use pills.
The methods that women use are potentially lethal, yes, but they are far less lethal, that is what we are talking about here. It's true, there is a deep problem in our society, really, really deep, bone marrow deep, that leads both sexes to be depressed and suicidal.
I won't waste any more time arguing that men are more likely to commit suicide than women. They are, but it's pointless to grovel over that point when the problem affects us both. Let's all get back to our roots, move into the woods and live off the land, then we will find our problems disappear.
Yup my comment was for both, instead on focusing on means to suicide we must focus on the mental issues and pressure of society because even if make gun laws it will reduce the rate but they will die from inside and it will be more lethal than death itself, and if i wanna really die I will do it any how. I will jump from a cliff or something else so it would be a temporary solution
@Aakash_Hangargi I know we need to focus on both. That's why the later, longer, part of my answer focused on destigmatizing therapy. But the question was specific to the male suicide rate. Which is why the beginning part mentioned gun control, because that is the main way that men kill themselves.
I understood that but in the second video the exfeminist told that she argued same that women tried to suicide and men only died because they were men something like that and you highlighted same point so i just gave my opinion nothing to demean you because the mesaage of the video was with each others help and understanding we could acheive at least some result
@Shamalien The people that want to die will never give you any hints. The people who threaten to commit suicide are typically crying for help and never will actually do it. It was totally out of the blue when my dad committed suicide.
I agree. I think more should have been done to help guys who are depressed and are contemplating suicide. We need to educate the public that this is an issue and should not be taken lightly, that we treasure our men as much as our women and children.
Thank you, for the kind words
@Aakash_Hangargi
You are welcome. I just felt too many male victims of abuse are not being assisted appropriately. Aren't men human beings as well? They feel pain and sadness just like women. Abuse is abuse, all victims should be receiving the same care and help for them, regardless of gender, race, etc.
Yup one incident happened in my country the girl victimised herself and based a blame on guy of vulgur behaviour and took his photo posted in fb and all the sympathy was with her when the guy had not done anything abusive but with click of photo she invented a story for power gain in politics of her party, the guy lost job friends parents disowned him women friends accused him media trials were done litteraly without any knowledge a news channel accused him of being molester nobody was supporting him, but later when the matter went to court she got scared untill then she was doing drama on media channels then she ran away to different country and nevet attended any hearings from court that guy lost everything and it made an impact
I am not saying this as a women did this but if it's male vs female then the laws are more compassionate towards women, but also some women layers were unbaised and supported guy in media trials there have been lots of cases as such falsely accused
But point being men and women cannot succeed with each other
And you are a wonderful person don't ever get brain washed by those false feminist, I have seen how young girls are brain washed and it saddens me
Doesn't mean that you couldn't fight for the rights yes you can even men will support same is expected from a women
Sorry I babbled too much 😅
The best thing would be to destroy the idea that men are weak for having and expressing emotions.
Too many times I’ve heard even men say things like “men don’t cry, only little bitches cry.”
That needs to stop.
First step is engaging more with these unhappy men and figure out what is wrong.
I don't know people personally that consider suicide from either gender but its important they have some hope and outlook in life. A prospect of having a loving girlfriend, or a fun career or something else that gives meaning or joy. Rather than feeling like what they desire can not be achieved in this life and their existence ultimately does not matter to anyone.
Literally got goosebumps when I saw the first video it happens to me when people really what they say it reaches to my heart.
We actually need a Humanist who Coul look beyond the male and female and also people to demean any sex and act unbiased but it's not possible it's too good to be true
To fight this issue people have to be aware of each others feeling and put the opposite genders feelings first if we'd very body does that it would be happy society we should appreciate each others little deeds that we do for each other by respecting and acknowledging the value of their existence and in
Importance of each others life
@Aakash_Hangargi
"We actually need a Humanist, who...'
Frankly, the Humanist philosophy is what got us into this mess.
If man had all the answers, people wouldn't be destroying themselves directly and indirectly.
Humanist philosophy got us into the mess didn't get you here
We humans are largely populated, so without it would be even worse fittest of the survival and that would end way badly
Sorry survival of the fittest
Well, the toxic mindset belongs to other men too. It is not just women pressuring or persecuting men. It is the parents' fault mostly as many tend to raise their kids according to specific stereotypes.
I am not sure what these guys disagree with. Toxic masculinity exists between men as well. It isn't only women who have unrealistic expectations on men,. other men have them aa well. Or maybe women are some demons to you? Raising your kids right can save lives wjen they frow older
I feel bad for commenting on this and sympathizing, people know only to hate.
You shouldn't.. And I don't know why you got down voted..
I didn't downvote you, but as I mentioned in my own answer here I think that people, women especially, make it about toxic masculinity and stereotypes when many men including myself see it as the opposite - the demonisation of masculinity and male nature is actually a big cause of this. The cause isn't too much masculinity, it's a lack of it. This is people raised without fathers are dramatically more at risk of suicide. That's why this difference in male vs female suicide has almost doubled since the 70s. Our culture has become less and less masculine over that time, not more. Masculinity has been demonised and discouraged more and more, as men have been encouraged more and more to be soft and sensitive, more like women. To blame masculinity and to think that we need more of that to solve the problem is completely backwards.
How is encouraging men to express their emotion leading to suicide rates being higher? If it was that way women would commit suicide more. Expecting men to be always tough, to not complain, to be the providers was the issue, and it is both genders that contribute to that. Men make fun more of other men if they look emotional, if they didn't have sex or if they can't do x and that. That is toxic masculinity. It is not only women. Yeah, there are extremists who call it sexual assault for a man to approach a woman but that comes from both genders. There are extreme feminists of both genders.
And i'll honestly won't simpathize anymore because the audience here doesn't deserve it from me. So i won't reply.
It's not just that, it's the obsession with encouraging men to act more and more like women in general along with the demonisation of masculinity itself.
If that toxic masculinity the issue, why is it that since the 70s, as our culture has become more and more liberal and as those kinds of pressures have lessened, that male suicide rates doubled since? If what you were saying were true we should have seen the complete opposite. But for some reason people can't see that, and I can't understand why that is.
We need to have better education and resources about mental health so people can be more open to talk about it and have it be easier to receive support and treatment when needed. Also we need to stop making men feel like they always need to be strong and shaming them for showing emotions so they won't feel the need to bottle things up and not deal with it in a healthy way which ends in such high suicide rates
Guys need more therapeutic help, no doubt. More resources in that area need to be available - especially for these particular men.
But here’s the thing... SUICIDE means it was done BY himself, TO himself. That was HIS decision. Did he have to do it? No.
Suicide is a last result of mental illness. If he’s mentally ill then he needs help, and it’s not “women’s fault” that he’s mentally ill. Nobody can force him to make that decision.
I think the op was taking the who's there to help stance and less the it's your fault approach.
Ah right this could have been summed up by saying he's a man and it was his choice his fault. Does the same apply to women who choose that way out as well. I hope it does.
@akihon Yes it does. That has nothing to do with gender.
So by your logic then no woman has ever taken her own life because she was driven to it by a man, because obviously she made her choice. Wow that's cruel but ok then
@akihon Not cruel, just a fact. Nobody can help you commit suicide. Suicide is done by yourself.
And that's not what I said, I said that using your logic no woman has ever been pushed to it because she made a choice.
@akihon And I've already stated that that's true four comments ago.
There is some serious ignorance in this post.
There needs to be male-specific resources - period.
Like what, exactly? Women have planned parenthood for obvious reasons. What would men need specifically for them? MMA gyms?
@OddBeMe Men would ideally need a place for issues such as male domestic abuse shelters (fun fact, men can go to SOME female shelters but will be kicked out to make room for women) and therapists who special in male sexual abuse (there are many who are trained to deal with female victims, but not men).
Just as an example. I don't see how MMA has anything to do with resources either, by the way. That's recreation.
I don’t doubt there are some men abused by women. But it’s not a 50/50 issue. It’s more like 90/10. So when worrying about spousal abuse, I donate to women’s shelters. Sorry.
Because feminazi filth and oxygen wasting thots control public opinion on that matter. They've been pumping their self-victimizing bullshit for so long that people have started to believe them. So "family" courts have become a weapon for divorced mothers who are so hideous that rape delusions are their only way of feeling sexual. All the while society is still stupid enough to think these germs are actually the victims, as male suicide rates rise globally.
Suicide hotlines and therapy are available to all people, not just men. We are responsible for our own lives and choices. but you can't make the choice for them. So here's what men can do to reduce the rate: not commit suicides. Same for women too. And Im sure assholes want to blame women for men killing themselves but it's not.
Also, society could take some pressure of men as the ones who need to something and put it on women because women can do basically anything a man can including be the hero and provider. Playing the victim won't hello anything because you've got to remember that for hundreds of years, men made the bed and men now lie in it. So blame the men who caused all the problems stopping equality for so long, not women.
I know you will hate me, but just re-watch thd second video
Wow, future Rhodes Scholar here... men can just not kill themselves.
Where is a pen, let me write that down...
Classic, here is a fine example of a female who doesn't care about her father, brothers, or other men on her life.
@KrakenAttackin Classic male, who thinks he knows a woman because to him, all women are the same. You love painting us as the monsters who created the issues that men actually created when they created inequality. Did you know that men aren't the only ones who commit suicide? And whether you're a man or woman the only real thing that can stop you from killing yourself, is not killing yourself. It's your responsibility because it's your life. And there are a lot of white, middle class men who kill themselves while colored, poor men don't. Because white men are so entitled that they don't even know what they have.
@KrakenAttackin
... Damn which woman hurted u?
@Wheresthebooze Perhaps women should just "not be raped"?
@KrakenAttackin it's ok bro let it go her mind is set on men being wrong and they are getting what they did but we don't have to do the same rape and all is big crime so i would request not to play with it as its not worth it
@Aakash_Hangargi Well, this female is as toxic as it gets. She is 20, wrapped up in gender studies and feminism, and has zero clue about the world. She deserves all she has coming to her.
@KrakenAttackin here's the thing: rape to a woman is when a women is overpowered by a man and a he forces himself into her or when a woman is drugged and a man has unconsensual sex with her. Rape is done by another person forcefully and without permission. Suicide when a person kills themselves. It done to them, by them. Unlike how murder is done to the person by someone else. Suicide is a choice made by the person but rape is a choice made by someone else. And, yes I know men can be raped too. So rape and suicide are not the same thing because women don't choose to get raped and can't stop it.
@KrakenAttackin and your statement is an offense to all women everywhere, especially rape victims. But I guess that's not a big deal to you
Unfortunately yea women are seen more as a victim because they were a victim for so long and because males are usually physically stronger than females which puts instantly in disadvantage.
Yet, pain is pain and of course males need as much support as females.
I think more awareness should be made about:
Depression in general
Gender studies
And social expectations for both gender.
Mental illness has no gender really.
So men weren’t victims when women were victims? Men have always been victims. Women definitely had their time of being victims, but men have also always been victims. I never understand why a lot of you guys think me had such amazing lives back in the day.
@esova I never said males weren't victims at all.
But before women were more oppressed unlike now.
Guys had more rights, authority and power.
In some countries both genders still don't have the same equal rights.
I don't get why you're offended really. Everything I said is on point and objective.
I would disagree with ghe gender studies thing when they teach things from Valery Solonas.. Things like the scum manifesto (society for cutting up men) and things from Gloria steinum.
Lol really?
Never read those
But I think gender studies is interesting because I feel a lot of behaviours are innate as a gender.
Oh no disagreement there, just the professors usually try to push an agenda..
Ow okayy
Archiz lol only men in high power positions had more rights. Most men were lower class and were treated like they were disposable. The only time it was a gender issue was for the rich class, everyone else was treated like disposable trash if I’m being honest. Men fighting endless wars for the rich, etc etc. it was a social class problem and not much of a gender problem.
@esova there definitely was a gender problem when women need permission from their husbands for their basic rights.
When they can't have an education.
When in saudi for example they couldn't drive.
Females were seen the lesser gender, the "weak" gender which sole purpose is to bring kids, clean the house and cook for her husband.
@archiz i agree with you on this idea of equality in interpersonal relationships between men and women that was the main problem but here is the thing that relationship and the other things you've talked about are pretty much provided now and available as in common sense while women's right are also existent.. So why are there women still calling for feminism then
@jaybee281 i said they "were" a victim for so long.
Now there is more equality in most regions in terms of basic rights education and such...
but for example not in my country where the system is still patriarchal. Feminism isn't going to disappear we still need it.
I am against people advocating females as superior but I am all for advocating for equality between both genders.
And in another regard, between males and females, females tend to be more victims of domestic abuse and sexual assault.
I never feel safe walking alone in the street when it gets dark.
Sure guys also feel this threat, but let's be fair most females are physically weaker than males reason why males can be seen sometimes as the aggressors.
Who do you think is easier to tackle?
A 5'4 petite female or at least a 5'7 male.
Also rarely females sexually attack males in the street.
So we need more awareness and law protection and enforcement for them.
Couldn't agree more even though i think there are deeper reasons for sexual assault that should be solved from within.. I was talking as in the United States by the way.. where are you from?
@jaybee281 lebanon
@archiz tla3e men rase ana lebnene😂😂bas eno mn sentein falleit
T5eyale manzar l nes bas yshoufo kif fasamet w ballashet e7ke bel 7 wel 3 malla le88a😂🤦🏻♂️
@jaybee281 hahahahahhaha 7lof😂
Nyellak ana bade fel.
Enta hl2 bel states?
Hl2 hl2 as we speak ana b lebnen (ejre bel irony taba3 l osas) jit b 25 February 3a ases bfell ba3d 2 weeks bas i got stuck hone ken fiye rou7 bas i live in Boston fa twa22a3et st Patrick's day l kel ynzal w corona w osas fa elet a7san hon
W I'm doing it for the money bas socially hon a7san so b kel sara7a manne msadda2 yezbato l plans taba3e w erja3 la 3atoul
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@jaybee281 hahaha wallah eh
Ya europe😂
Bass ma 7adan bya3ref bass yekbar lwahad bi ghayer ra2yo.
Ba3dak zghir enta, 21?
Nyellak yaret ana 3melet lmove 3a bakir eno fel😂
by the way I'm younger randomly 7atteit 21 eno ken fiya tkoun shou maken cz ma kenet 3arif eno hek information b bayno 3an 7a2i2a I'm 18😂😂went to the states when i was 16(long complicated story shi nhar b5abrik hiyye) bas eno what i can tell you houwe eno law ma kenet privileged aktar mn 8ayre ma kenit zabatit ma3e ye3ne kenit aktar eno i would be stupid if i turned hek opportunity down.. +why haven't you tried to leave?
@jaybee281 aweee tofel😂
I am 7years older than you ma bsade2🤦🏿♀️
Lek I am gonna follow you sara7a aslan ma yekhraf 3aleyna lasker
Howwww ma t2oule 3anne tofel tzakkare ana b lebnen hl2 i can find you😂😂w eh i was hoping tkoune younger than 25 lamma shefta bas anw having good conversations ma3ik
@jaybee281 unfortunately I am not😂
W dakhilak la2 ma 7adan men ref2ate bya3ref I am using it