A few weeks ago or something, someone replied back to me somewhere, "Oh, you even used the dreaded "female" word." I forget the context. And then I think I saw it again later somewhere else on GAG. But I notice it's much more common for people to write "girls" or "women".
Did the meaning or practical common usage change? Does the word "female" now have some new negative connotation?
I'm not looking for some argument about females today. I'm looking at this purely from a semantics angle.
If there's nothing to it, that's fine. I just have had this feeling I might be missing something. As far as I know, girls/guys, men/women, males/females are all neutral descriptors.
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+1 y
Well! That was very illuminating. Thank you, all. I had no idea I was narrowly avoiding walking on a land mine 💣 I understand now. Lots of layers to it.
Yes, this is definitely a thing. It won't always have a connotation, I think most of the time it still doesn't, but in some contexts people definitely take it as carrying a certain extra meaning. I think a certain kind of guy says 'females' derisively, and also in some conersations using 'male' and 'female' over 'man' and 'woman' would often indicate that the speaker was saying what they were saying was objective & scientific (usually this is used to bolster some provincial stereotype). Also, in feminist circles, cis women who don't want to share space with trans women will often talk about 'females' in place of 'women' because they feel like 'females' frames the discussion around biology (as their slogan goes 'woman = adult human female', where female is taken to be a biological category which excludes trans women).
So, it has become a bit of a shibboleth in a few different conversations, & you might end up triggering a social tripwire when you say it, although I've never felt like I needed to stop saying it where it was appropriate (ie. I might not say 'females tend to think...' but I would talk about 'female sexuality')
Wow. That was like a Master Class on linguistics. Very informative, thank you very much. I especially loved "... you might end up triggering a social tripwire when you say it..."
ahaha, I think its really not a big deal. Words pick up and drop off meanings as they go... the 'euphemism treadmill' etc. We will be the better the less we can talk about male and females and the more about people, I think.
Ah, yes, many good answers from others here to spread light on it... I can share my thoughts on it, since I'm not an native English speaker. I'll occasionally use the terms male/female, but it's not much I think about, I see them as another way of saying man/woman. So I usually don't pay much attention to it, unless the user writing or talking uses it to promote some sort of agenda (usually 'males are much powerful than females, and so they should be served while females pleases them' or something in that line) I can't speak for everyone else who aren't native English speakers, but for me it can be hard to pick up on these sort of things, mainly because we aren't as involved in the English language. So female/male is just a synonym for woman/man to my ears, unless like I said, someone is using it in an obvious bad manner. If I make sense?
It seems that way for some people. But what's acceptable to say is always changing. That's why I just use words how I understand them and don't care about what's "allowed" or not. If you allow people to control how you speak it's almost like you're letting them control how you think. The words you're allowed to use are like a box and if you can't use words outside of the box it's harder to think outside the box as well. I admire people who just say what they think and don't give any fucks. Usually those are smart and interesting people you can learn a lot from. Well there's also the opposite case but I just ignore those people.
I have to disagree. Sure, use whatever words you want. But the purpose of using those words is to convey a point or a message, meaning someone has to receive those words in order for you to be understood. If someone prefers that I call them by a specific name, cool - I want them to receive my message, not wonder why I can’t just call them what they would prefer to be called. I also have a sailor’s mouth, but I don’t curse around people who don’t curse. It would take away from what I was saying because, to them, that kind of language is not ok. I don’t think it’s about what’s “allowed” or not, but rather are you speaking just to speak or to be heard?
@Mtnwv1129 Well I've developed in a quite indipendent and different way than most people. And I think being different is something interesting and special. I will explain it again if someone doesn't get me but there's enough people that fit in already I'll just be me.
Seems like it. I read a while ago an opinion of another GAG member who explained that using the word 'female' reduces a woman and makes her more like an animal. Something like that. I don't think there should be anything wrong with that word, cuz like you said, it's a fine descriptor. Well, I guess words change over time and especially quick these days.
Ohhh lawd. This is cray cray. Yep, plants and animals. Animal, vegetable, mineral. Flora and fauna. Males and females. I am totally fine with all of this.
You are very tolerant, Nathan. Nice/good man. I might rail against this some though. Seems sensitivity has reached max nut job saturation.
Yeah it's crazy times, meanings change fast the definitions are evolving as generations are evolving like while chatting means generation used to say Okay then we used OK now it k. And another example we used i know right now its ikr in real life is now irl it's fun to see the changes 😂 I like the other slangs OOTD, Netflix and chill, Yay or Nay. It's like whole new world
Oh wow. I stay away for a bit and my comment blows up.
@AmandaYVR Thank you :^) Seeing as how I've been absent, I'd rather call it ignorance than tolerance. But I think I'm usually pretty tolerant anyways. Great cats by the way!
Girl, woman, lady, lassie, female, feminine all seem like valid descriptors to me. I haven't heard of any stigma toward the word female. I can't imagine.
Maybe we should use the word distaff. LOL
In the past, I've heard a woman or two object to using the word girl in relation to women because they claim it infantilizes women and encourages men who have pedophilic urges. I think that's absurd. Women refer to themselves as girls all the time. Girl sounds cute. Most women want to be cute and youthful. The word woman can sound more formal and even stilted in some circumstances. The single syllable word "girl" flows easier off the tongue, sounds more familiar and friendly, and also fits better than "woman" in some song lyrics.
Anyway, persons of the female gender should take pride. Go females!
Wow, "distaff" - had to look that one up! Interesting. Some language falls away, some rises up, and some things get bastardized, eh.
Me and the hubby just had a conversation about all this. He gave examples of a woman conducting a meeting at his work, who recently sort of semi-apologized after greeting a large group with "Hey guys. Can I still say that?" Or what he should call me and a female friend sitting on the sofa. Even that, we laughed and couldn't come up with an obvious choice.🤐 Oh lawd.
How 'bout just referring to both men and women as bitches? "Yo, bitches." Would that be wrong? LOL
Seriously, language does evolve. But for god's sake, political correctness can sure be a pain. Think of the attempted prohibition against gender specific pronouns or the sin in "assuming" someone's gender identity. Teachers and professors can get fired for that these days.
In relation to the example your husband gave, I saw a broadcast of a Democratic Socialists meeting a while back. A moderator came to the microphone and said, "Hey, guys, just a few announcements before we get started." Some guy in the audience jumped up and shouted "Point of privilege! Point of privilege!" When he was recognized, he went off on a tirade, practically crying, about how gender specific words were traumatizing to some people. All this stuff would indeed be laughable if certain SJW-types didn't take it so seriously and try to force it on everyone else. I, personally, think such damaged people should shelter at home in their safe spaces under their beds where they won't be "triggered" by anything.
I've been to meetings where people wear name badges that have their preferred pronouns listed below. "Richard - he, him, his" just to virtue signal their sensitivity. Have you see that?
Pretty soon we'll have to resort to simply "Hey... you" (which is, of course, the collective you, not individual you.) Wth. At least French has vous and tu to differentiate formal and informal.
Yes I do think there is too much catering going on. One's self esteem cannot be this low. What ever happened to intent being the key factor in if something was meant to be offensive or not?
I like 'ladies' quite a bit. Husband said "Ladies and gentlemen" will make me sound super old. But I like keeping the old lingo alive! We can't let rapscallions die, can we? What about grand poobahs? This was one of my early questions. Things are getting too serious. And not in a 'stiff upper lip' kind of way. And this doesn't even cover Miss vs. Ma'am. You guys get Sir. So easy, married or not.
Nope, haven't experienced this 'prefered pronoun' thing, though I suppose I've heard about it, theoretically.
There seems to be a modern thought that the word "female" is dehumanizing as it is an animalistic discriptor such as a female tiger etc. Add into that the post modern concepts of genders and gender identity you can see why some people seem to have issues with it.
Female is a professional term but feminism can make the word female take on a narcissistic quality where it's used to exercise dominance and female privilege. I could be very extreme with those terms. However using woman would take on the type of feel too. But that's a person that is sensitive to gender debate. In which the simple use of the word gender can also take on narcissistic, dominant and privilege tones as well
Guilty of that it was me who highlighted it 😂, but I did that in a fun way not to correct or disrespect the logic behind that was women prefer to be called as girls or women and not as females it makes them feel like inferior creature as explained by multiple posts and ladies
It kinda has a negative connotation because incels and MGTOW guys refuse to refer to women as anything other than “females” or “femoids” in order to dehumanize them and justify their hatred towards them. It’s made some women more sensitive to being called females. That’s about all I can think of.
I don't get offended by it, because that's exactly what we are? The category female is broad so it refers to anyone with the female gender. I don't understand what there is to be offended by. It's not a slur. It's a word that has been around for centuries, so why be offended by it now?
Maybe it has to do with the differentiation between biological sex and gender identity. Male and female are words used on a birth certificate, in medical records. Someone who may not necessarily identify as the gender associated with their birth sex would rather be addressed by more person-centered words of identification.
It depends on how its used.. For example i use it to differentiate between a girlfriend and a female friend. some women idiotically think when a man uses it, he is using it to disrespect someone of the opposite gender..
Yeah, can't we have girlfriend and girl friend? That could differentiate a romantic/sexual relationship from friend. I started writing it this way. Maybe it'll catch on one day...
female could be used in some self derogetory context... like a possible oversimplification of you as a person... i'm not sure what other words to use on this idea... like the person may use it to derogitate you, but in that way, they're over importantcizing themselves
LOL It is getting out of hand with what people are offended at. And now there are those who are bothered by any reference to gender, not just the word "female"...
It seems that way. Recently saw a question saying that any man who uses the word female is a sexist loser. Just shook my head asking myself what society has come to lol.
Meh.. I think it depends on context. Something professional/scientific? It doesn’t bother me. Someone saying “females always do x” yeah, it’s a bit off putting, to me anyway. I’ve never called anyone out over it, but it does make me think of them differently. I think it also has a lot to do with your social circle as well. It’s just not used in my circle, so it sounds strange hearing it. Maybe if it was used more in my circle I wouldn’t find it odd. The only time I even hear it being used, is not even in the context of talking about humans. I usually only hear it when talking about animals. “My dog had puppies - 3 male and 2 female.”
To some weird people, maybe. A crazy feminist on this once accused me of condescending her for referring to her as a “female” instead of “girl/woman/lady”, etc 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
My own opinion is that male/female are just very formal almost old fashioned like Mr/Mrs/Ms/Master/Miss Or many it is the multitude of genders out there , it is not appropriate to go binary Overall I see no negativity For some reason I am thinking of when things get serious and people use my proper name David or Mr. ******** rather than my nickname Dave
I use it more than woman or women nowadays because some ass hat decided to start turning mental disorders into genders. Female gets less confusing in this context
Nope. Non defined, for instance how someone perceives her/their maturity level. Neutral pronoun.
If someone uses it for other ways is up to them.
No. you haven't the right to dictate how others should see you or obligate certain level of respect or respect on any level.
If you're one of those nutcases trying to find something to manufacture a fight you need to stay off forums and media to you have your shit together instead of making it more toxic.
Wtf? I am doing no such thing, and that is clear from what I wrote.
If some words are triggers I want to know about them. That's not to say I am going to cave under this ridiculous redefining of things but I like to know what's going on nonetheless.
I didn't read crazy8000's comment the way you did, Amanda. I thought he was using the word "you" in the collective sense, as opposed to being pointed at you personally. I could be wrong.
@Lliam I read it several times to try and interpret if it was directed at me or 'females' in general. I believe it was towards me. But either way, he is the one getting antagonistic and I'm calling him on it. He executed no tact in discussing it.
Just another thing people want to outrage about. This is why feminism in the west in the year 2020 is a complete joke. Literally a poisonous and pointless movement now.
Well I'm not pro militant 4th wave feminism, but this "female" word is clearly laden with shite now, and it appears to have been co-opted by some (and those are not just feminists.) I can't believe how toxic some basic words have been made. This has gotten way out of hand.
With feminazi filth and their oxygen wasting slaves lurking around in every corner - you can never know. Perhaps that word offends them, whic woulf ofc make anyone using it a criminal.
The person who said it to me was not trying to be offensive. It was more like social commentary. But I didn't understand it. He answered this q/commented here, actually, reminding me it was him. I'm glad I quoted what little I could remember. Thanks @Aakash_Hangargi
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