"But if a white woman posts a picture of a dreamcatcher that she either made, or uses, to protect from bad dreams, the group of these, mostly-white, women will excoriate the poster because she is guilty of 'cultural appropriation'."Are these women aware that you can go to the Navajo Nation and *buy* these items from actual Navajos who sell them to anyone willing to pay, regardless of their race/ethnicity/nationality? You can go to the Pacific Northwest and buy mini totem poles made by the Tlingits or Quiluetes? Again, sold to anyone willing to pay.
lol pretty much right on the money with what i said in my answer. sweet!
Thank you. Wish you hadn’t gone anon so I knew who I was thanking.
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Okay. But under current law communities don’t have intellectual property rights in their customs, folklore or traditions. Are proponents of cultural appropriation trying to change the law in this respect? Or just change how people think?
I dont know any proponents of cultural appropriation so im not sure, but my guess is a mix of both. Changing how people think would be the preferred outcome (they likely just want the source to be recognized), but since no one ever takes that sort of thing seriously changing the law so they get paid for their idea is generally considered an acceptable consolation prize.
So when non whites wear jeans, is that stealing culture or does it only count when "white" people do it?
@hellionthesagereborn exactly. That doesn't count. Sounds silly right? That's why I'm saying it's really hardly an issue.
But you acknowledge it as a legitimate thing? Isn't that in and of itself a racist concept due to the fact that it is only applied to one race but not others?
@hellionthesagereborn I was just answering the askers question to define the term and the term obviously exists. I just found out about it this year too and couldn't believe it was an issue to so many people. Like I previously said, I think it's silly that it's like that
My point is, the definition is racial discrimination, that is what its purpose is yet no one seems to want to actually state that and I'm confused as to why. If I said we should shame black people for straightening their hair as only white people are allowed to have straight hair, we would all, rightly, state that this is racism, yet when the reverse happens every one is suddenly and inexplicably quite. That was kind of the point I was trying to make,, why is it that no one is adding racist descrimination in their explanation of what it is? To me, not doing that is like trying to explain racial segregation without mentioning that its a racist policy designed to segregate the races, its rather dishonest (in my opinion).
And for the record I'm not angry or trying to attack you, I'm honestly trying to understand why no one is mentioning the racist part as that seems rather pertinent.
@hellionthesagereborn Ok it seems like you're very passionate about your stance. I thought it was clearly talked about in the video I posted but guessing you didn't watch it
I have watched plenty of others and again, at no point does it adress the fact that the concept in and of itself is racist (and inaccurate as literally no culture in the entire world hasn't "cultrally appropriated" other cultures (exchange of ideas is inevitable with interactions, its formed all cultures as we know them today). So again, why won't we talk about it being insanely racist? Why do we not mention how it is openly discriminatory and designed to force people not to interact with other races (a sort of underhanded segregation (if I'm not allowed to interact meaningfully with other groups then I'm more likely to not be around them because I don't want to be accused of racism or being a bad person because I used a word that I wasn't suppose to or wore a piece of cloth they deemed I was not the right skin color to wear).
@hellionthesagereborn There are people who are really passionate about it like you that like to go beyond the question. I don't disagree with what you're saying. Minorities have their own part in racsim but you're upset that many don't take accountability right? I agree but I wasn't trying to dive that deep. I just wanted to answer the question.
So here's an example of this lunatic "cultural appropriation" BS.Say you are a white person and eat at Taco Bell. That's cultural appropriation because you are eating Mexican food and you are not Mexican. If you do that according to the LUNATICS who accuse you are appropriating (stealing) a benefit from a culture that doesn't belong to you and you are a racist!
Happy to help. A friend told me I’m the “least white white person he knows” and I always interpret that to mean I can adapt to other cultures to have fun and be respectful.
You sound awesome
"and making it “whiter”" and thus motive is revealed. So only white people can culturally appropriate and no one else. Are you suggesting that whites have no culture? Or that its okay to, in your words, "taking a cultural expression or experience and making it “less white”? Note that replacing a white actor with a black one is applauded, like Hamilton which replaced multiple real life historical figures with white ones, it was applauded, yet having Marvels Iron Fist, a white man who knew kung fu was deemed racist due to "cultural appropriation". Why does it go only one way? Again, are you suggesting that whites have no culture of their own and that its perfectly acceptable to discriminate against them? If not, then why would you use the term "whiter"? Why would you single out one race over another (which is by definition racism)?
Good point lol
Makes a lot of sense
Ohhhh Nohhhh! Breakfast burritos at Burger King! CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!!!
Yeah so like an example might be the top knot Japanese Samurai hairstyle (official term is Chonmage). In the Edo period Japan it was a status symbol and meant you are of the nobility or higher social class and cut in this way to keep their samurai helmet on their head in battle. en.wikipedia.org/.../...rai_hand_colored_c1890.jpgSo then some American guy might just see this picture and be like wow that looks cool! i wanna make my hair like that" all without ever knowing the origins or reasons why Japanese samurai had it like that in the first place. just shallow understandings over it.
@Dargil ok buddy
@Still-alive thank you
np. great question by the way!
Yup. @Still-alive nailed it
@loves2learn thank you!
You are absolutely correct
No. Gaming stuff.
@Bklynbadboy12 inspired from Wikipedia.
Yes. A discussion about this topic on the Onyx Path forums. But I get it now.
A large part of my heritage is Scottish and Scandanavian. People dress up like vikings all the time and I don't take offense. You are completely right.
is it stealing to make a curry? are we stealing from indians when we order a curry or chinese food delivery? dumbass black people man..
It's not to be taken that way. Don't blame blacks. Its more rich white kids that make these kinds of bulshit rules up. The academic stuff white kids who never really are out on the street tonight. Because nobody cares about that shir on the streets. It's only in the college They cause racism to just multiply with this dumb shit.
@Rennitenn Fair point, I think.
@Rennitenn sorry if you are black, i have nothing against them personally, im not racist, i jus got pissed off cos i wanted to grow dreadlocks, then recently i saw a vid of a black woman being hostile to a white guy with dreads so thats why i was salty
I used to have dreadlocks lol when i was younger and im not black. Back when I have them in the 90s black people didn't even hardly have them LOL that's what's funny about that. Cuz I'm white
only liberals and leftist are offended. the people leftist think are offended are never offended. it's all in leftist heads, they're fucking batshit insane
Thank you 😊
You always know how to calm me down
Nobody complained about cultural appropriation because that isn't what it is. Cultural appropriation isn't just somebody borrowing something from a culture.
If it’s as a joke it actually is offensive, because you are purposefully doing it at the expense of another culture. But most of the time it’s out of appreciation, and that is why it’s fucking stupid. I’ve even heard some people say you aren’t allowed to learn another cultures language if you aren’t from there, like what the actual fuck? They’ve gone full circle and created racism, like the far left in fact becomes the alt right! They are one in the same
@Archerer so what? xD it's a fucking joke. i know people depict germans as sauerkraut eating, beer drinking chumps. you think i care? it's a funny stereotype and taking offense to it, even if it's made fun of, is stupid. and even if someone makes amean spirited comment, so freaking what? they're entiteled to their opinion. their opinion doesn't hurt me.i've seen a concerning trend of redefining words as "violence" ... it slowly takes a dark turn towards trying to legitimate answering that "verbal" violence with phyiscal violence... it's like nazi version 3.0. i don't see it as coming full circle. the political spectrum is more complicated than left and right. they are still far left but they are super autoritarian left and they have created a new form of racism and hate towards majority groups. as if it was evil or oppressive to be part of a majority group... the classical left was rather libertarian but this new wave is almost on hitlers level authoritarian...
i think the political left extreme autoritarian wing has grown more dangerous than the right one in recent history.
I never said it couldn’t be funny... but it’s still offensive. There’s also jokes in good taste and jokes in bad tastes. Jokes are supposed to be funny, some offensive jokes aren’t funny they are just offensive. There are plenty of offensive jokes too... but either way that isn’t cultural appropriation, which was the question. Cultural appropriation has nothing to do with jokes or humour.
Plenty of good offensive jokes*
@Archerer yeah taste is obviously not an objective thing. so what's good or bad is opinion and nothing more. cultural appropriation is not offensive and even if it's offensive, so freaking what?
Well it’s funny that you seem very offended by it lmao
@Archerer by what?
No problem 🤗
Inappropriate from the perspective of the native culture? Anyone could find anything as inappropriate so it’s kind of irrelevant
That's true and I also think you can choose not to care.
Not if it was written by an American WASP
It was written by a Puerto Rican.
Then technically yes. But I don’t think many DARs are gonna complain.
It’s more complicated than that lol
@SmokinAces2000 it is 😊. I get that now. But speaking as a half Italian person, he’s not 100% wrong either.
@SmokinAces2000 I was being somewhat humorous in making my point, but it's not that much more complicated.
I mean a little bit like if a white person is walking around in a dashiki that might be cultural appropriation but a white women getting box braids is not cultural appropriation that’s going a little to far now I think it’s cringe and unattractive but I wouldn’t say It’s cultural appropriation
The "Problem" once was people have been furious as other people were stealing their culture, but in the modern ways of overreacting suddenly everything is now cultural appropriation.
The other side of that is the genuine appreciation of other cultures. For example, chefs of one culture specializing in the cuisine of another culture or musicians composing or playing music from another culture. Or even white hippies who wear dreads. The problem is that cultural appropriation as a concept is that it is often used as a weapon.
@jerdanro that is very true. There are positive ways to appropriate also. You see it a lot in cuisines.
Yes. A woman below said it perfectly, contrasting cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation.
That makes complete sense