Traffic ticket quotas do NOT exist in law enforcement, so why do some people keep believing this myth?

[Anonymous]

[OlderAndWiser]

I strongly support law enforcement and, in general, understand that traffic ticket quotas are a myth, but they have existed in the recent past in my area of Florida. Waldo is a small town on US 301 just east of Gainesville, Florida, and it was a notorious speed trap. It's officers reported that they were subject to a traffic ticket quota:

https://www.gainesville.com/article/LK/20140826/News/604154737/GS

and, in response, the City of Waldo disbanded its police department.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/2014/10/01/city-council-disbands-waldo-police-department/

[Andres77]

They don't want to disbelieve it

[Andres77]

It's easier to believe "they're out to get me" than just take responsibility for one's actions.

[rcljr]

I haven’t had a ticket in 37 years, so, NO, I’m not worried at all they are “ out to get me”

[Andres77]

@rcljr it was for those that KEEP getting tickets.
They want to believe the quotas are the reason why they got a ticket, not that they were being irresponsible.
If you never got caught and got a ticket, good for you..
You're the single group at which this comment WAS NOT directed.

[rcljr]

I understand, but my brother in law is a deputy sheriff, they have quotas, but you’ll never see them in print, or a hard drive or in a text, it’s not even verbally communicated, just a nod of the head.

[Andres77]

@rcljr got it.
Ok, well I'm definitely on the outside looking in.
Take care!

[Asker]

@rcljr
Then that’s not a quota…..

It may be expected that an officer writes a certain number of citations in a high traffic metropolitan area, but that doesn’t mean there is a required quota that will be met with career and/or disciplinarian consequences if not met.

What you described is NOT a quota.

If it’s not in print, hard drive, text, or verbally communicated…..

Then that’s 100% not an example of a quota.

It’s more like an expectation due to the environment one is in. If you only write one citation, in a high traffic metro area then something is wrong. This forces officers to actually work. The stops are good, it’s just, some officers don’t even want to put in the work.

[ThisDudeHere]

I've heard it multiple times that you can periodically spot cops more present on the streets than normal, even if it's not a holiday or whatever. There's no reason to periodically increase presence unless you're rushing to fill a quota.

[Not_Average]

If you’re working traffic division, then you need to issue enough traffic citations to let your watch commander know that you’re actually working. That’s it. I never worked traffic and the only time I’d pull someone over for a VC is if I thought they had drugs or guns.

[NYCQuestions1976]

It's not a hard "yes" or "no" issue. It depends on the policy of the jurisdiction itself, not the jurisdiction's police department. When there's announced traffic "crackdowns", that's a form of a quota. Things like that are pushed by bureaucracy, not the police... but they're enforced by the police.

[rcljr]

Absolutely correct, some do, some don’t, some turn a blind eye, some watch like a hawk.

[rcljr]

There is no written quota, there’s a wink wink nod nod at in brief last week of the month and the shift commander by winking and nodding let’s the patrol guys know that the mayor is running out of Vodka or his wife needs another Botox and they need to write more tickets. Watch any police station and see, tickets dramatically go up the last 9 days of the month, LIKE CLOCKWORK.

[RolandCuthbert]

Yeah like Code Reds didn’t exist in “A Few Good Men”. It is hard to know if you are this gullible or are you lying on purpose.

[Still-alive]

The latter

[Asker]

I just know the law…..
federal law prohibits such quotas from existing.

[RolandCuthbert]

So because there is a law that means police departments don’t informally have productivity goals? I think Still-Alive is correct. You are just lying.

www.safemotorist.com/.../

[Still-alive]

This guy was either a cop or tried to become a cop cause cop stuff is all he posts about

[Asker]

@RolandCuthbert

Again, how could I be lying about federal law.

Informally is nearly impossible to measure and vague.

Point being, quotas do not exist. That’s just a fact.

Productivity goals are entirely different….

If a state trooper only issues one citation in a district or region he patrols around which the highest amount of interstate traffic….

That’s an issue.

He clearly should have more than one. It’s just reasonable to think he would.

Now, that doesn’t mean there is a specific number in mind.

[Asker]

@Still-alive
😎

[RolandCuthbert]

@Still-alive. He is a wannabe. And they are infinitely worse.

[Asker]

@Still-alive
He doesn’t know me and assumes things.

Doesn’t surprise me with the unreasonable and factually wrong things he’s said plenty of times.

[RolandCuthbert]

How can I assumed the things you write?

You said that traffic quotas do not exist in law enforcement. All because there is a federal law against it.

And that is not true.

[Asker]

That’s 100% true though lol……

Then you say I don’t know the law……

[RolandCuthbert]

So I posted an article that talks about how the quota system works, but it doesn't exist?

Got it.

I am in Nevada right now.

lasvegassun.com/.../

CARSON CITY — Nevada lawmakers are considering banning police departments from requiring officers meet quotas and issue a minimum number of traffic citations.

In a Thursday committee hearing, Assemblywoman Rochelle Nguyen, the proposal's sponsor, called quotas “policing for profit” and said they incentivize officers to act confrontationally and unfairly target individuals, particularly near the end of a given month when they have to meet quotas.

The bill would also prohibit departments from considering the numbers of citations an officer issues in performance reviews or promotional decisions. Nguyen said that when departments reward officers for the number of tickets issued, it hurts both officers and those being ticketed, who, in Nevada, can be charged with felonies for not paying fines.

[RolandCuthbert]

We also know that the quotas exist, from the policemen themselves.

www.usatoday.com/.../

MORRISTOWN, N. J. – The Policemen's Benevolent Association of a New Jersey town is suing the local police department, claiming police officers have been forced to meet ticket quotas to generate extra revenue during the coronavirus pandemic.

In a lawsuit filed Monday, PBA Local 43 officers alleged that the Morristown Police Department enacted an "illegal ticket quota system" that was enforced by ordering officers to engage in late-night walking posts.

www.dallasnews.com/.../

Ticket quotas are illegal in Texas. Walker charged that the department has done this for decades. She told the council she was speaking on behalf of current and former officers. (She later said that’s about 30 people.)

In her words: “The Richardson Police Department has been illegally using quotas to evaluate and discipline officers. Patrol officers are threatened with punishments for not writing enough tickets, arresting enough people and making enough citizen contacts.”

How does it work? The 13-year veteran said: “The command staff does this under the guise of monthly productivity reports to compare officers to one another.”

[Still-alive]

watch him attempt to gaslight us again :)

[Asker]

Just because you find some people breaking the law doesn’t mean a rule doesn’t exist for it.

Also, doesn’t mean the majority of people are lawbreakers

Same thing with quotas.

If officers or agencies are using this.

It’s against federal law.

So…. I don’t know what to say. I guess you can always find something wrong with anything lol.

Generally though, quotas don’t exist.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Still-alive He can't do anything else. His delusions are his facts. His fantasies are his logic.

He has no ability to find anything that can be agreed upon as actual objective fact. He said that there is a federal law preventing quotas. So in his mind that means all police departments everywhere stopped using quotas.

It is just that simple in his mind.

[RolandCuthbert]

Did you read your own title? You said that traffic quotas do not exist. You said "why do some people keep believing in this mythology"?

Well obviously, we believe in it because we have been subjected to traffic quotas. It has been proven time and again that different police departments use it to generate revenue. And until states and local jurisdictions take it upon themselves to restructure incentives for police officers, it will continue to be a problem.

No one here questioned that there was a federal law. Why on earth you think that stops cops from breaking the law is beyond me. But given your history, that is to be expected.

[Asker]

Just because some officers in some agencies do the wrong thing, doesn’t mean that’s a general thing.

Oh man, that’s actually a beautiful way of saying it lol ^^

[Asker]

I guess that’s the whole point of the whole discussion.

[Still-alive]

More gaslighting as usual

[NYCQuestions1976]

It's not a hard "yes" or "no" issue. It depends on the policy of the jurisdiction itself, not the jurisdiction's police department. When there's announced traffic "crackdowns", that's a form of a quota. Things like that are pushed by bureaucracy, not the police... but they're enforced by the police.

Also, recreational marijuana is still technically federally illegal and a controlled substance, but many states have done whatever they want anyway, and have legalized recreational marijuana use.

So many people want to find "only yes" or "only no" answers, as if there's never anything in between.

[Asker]

@NYCQuestions1976

Yeah, perhaps I should’ve said “generally speaking”

Otherwise, people would find ways to easily defeat what I said

How I worded the question, seemed like they never existed, ever, or anywhere.

Which is obviously not true.

Should’ve worded it better, might do another question clarifying certain things because I clearly didn’t word this one right.

[RolandCuthbert]

"Just because some officers in some departments". . . you can say that about anything. I proved that quotas exist. I used actual facts. I showed court cases. I showed policy disputes.

You simply gave us your fantasies.

[RolandCuthbert]

@NYCQuestions1976 So you think that the answer to the question that quotas exist is not a yes or no answer?

I mean I am just talking about logic.

If is a definite yes.

If you want to debate to what extent that is another issue. But of course the quotas exist. They don't exist everywhere obviously. But that isn't what he wants you to believe. His point has always been that law enforcement should never be questioned. So in a given jurisdiction, when you know there are speed traps, when you know officers are being pressured to write citations, if there are denials, you have to forego all of the evidence you have accumulated, based upon an officer's word.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@RolandCuthbert There are 50 states with 3,006 counties (including the Parishes of Louisiana) with tens of thousands of jurisdictions (cities, boroughs, towns, townships, incorporations, etcetera). My response was perfectly reasonable, logical, and accurate, for the same reason that the question, "Is marijuana legal?" doesn't have a clear "yes" or "no" answer. The same applies here, and that's why I used that question as an example that things aren't always "yes" and "no". It's not my fault that @EmbraceThePain 's question was vague and poorly worded/written (which he admitted). My other point was that it's the jurisdictions, not the police, that implement these policies, if/when they happen to exist. In fact, now there's "crackdowns" that are implemented by government bureaucracy that don't even need or require police involvement: Red light cameras and speed cameras. State, county, and local governments don't even try to hide their blatant money grabs any more.

[Asker]

Just from my experience of where I live/work, as well as officers who I know of that work in other states, quotas don’t exist.

Informally, we cannot track that and I’m hesitant to believe anything anyone says if it’s not written down on paper as something formal or as a rule.

It is against federal law to have quotas

Expecting someone to write up more
than 4 citations in a busy metropolitan/high traffic area is NOT a quota.

Requiring that officers get a certain number of citations or else behavioral and career consequences will occur IS a quota.

This is against the law.

So, can you technically find people who go against this? Sure

Is it the norm? 100% not.

If that proves you’re right and I’m wrong then so be it. Again, should’ve reworded my question to not be so absolute as I knew someone would give me a few instances and think this is standard practice within the field of law enforcement.

[RolandCuthbert]

No one is arguing about your experience. When you post, you post about what you claim is universal experience. Most times, you just state your fantasies and your delusions as evidence. All I do is point out by using objective fact, that your experience is not universal. And that in different circumstances, jurisdictions, etc. people have totally different experiences. That usually pisses you off. Just as though your emotions change the very experiences people have. No one is here claiming all police are bad. But that the bad ones need to be outted and punished. Why you have such issues with that concept is beyond me. But one thing is for absolutely certain, you will execuse any bad behavior on their behalf. And go running to the defense of the worst officers, because of some issue you think police have with image.

Consider this, the only reputations damaged as the ones of the officers committing crimes. And of those who defend them. Maybe officers who uphold the law, have nothing to apologize for or to be ashamed about.

Then once you have accepted that fact, maybe you could think about extending that courtesy to fellow citizens.

[RolandCuthbert]

@NYCQuestions1976 I reject that logic. His words were not vague. He made a statement and defended it with vigor for several days. At any time, he could have said, "you know, maybe a few jurisdictions do still use quotas, but the vast majority don't."

But nah.

He made a ridiculous assertion, then had the nerve to insult anyone who disagreed with it.

That was not vague.

[ChrisMaster69]

In the US do traffic tickets result in a financial charges, as in they generate revenue?

definitely in the UK they have been quotas and it’s a revenue generator.

[normalice]

Um, there are. My ex's dad was on the force. Maybe its a municipality thing, but its definitely a thing.

[lasher010]

Because people believe everything they are told. They dont check things out or think things through. Group thinkers. That is why the left succeed to such a high degree. Dumbness.

[worldscolide]

Except that they do in some places. They are illegal where I'm from, but the police chief was recently forced to resign because it was discovered that it was indeed his policy.

[worldscolide]

And before someone says something stupid about being held accountable.. I haven't been pulled over since I was 17. 20 years.

[MCheetah]

But they do have them in many places. Such as Philadelphia. And they're brutally harsh, too.

[slatyb]

How do you know? Former police officers have reported being pressured to meet quotas.

[Smegskull]

The deluth model also doesn't exist in law enforcement and yet is practiced.
Police departments have lots of operational policies that go beyond what the law permits, that's why their departmental policies aren't made public.

[OddBeMe]

Sure, but there has to be some number of tickets cops are expected by COs to make per day…

[Asker]

Well, they can have a number.

Doesn’t mean it is enforced or required by law, which it’s not under federal.

Depending on the area, chain of command can reasonably expect a lot of citations due to the high traffic of some places.

People speed.

If there’s more people, you will catch more people speeding.

If there’s more people in a place where there’s a lot of traffic

You’ll catch a lot of people speeding by just watching

So, yeah, chain of command can expect an officer to give probably more than 1 speeder a ticket in a big metropolitan area. (Obviously more than one, as I am highlighting a point)

A number can be expected but never said out loud as a mandate. They’ll probably just keep it to themselves

[OddBeMe]

And when city budgets are hurting do cops patrol for extra money-making citations?

[jimmy2]

Well i got stop doing 65 in a 75 for nothing that how vops catch a lot of criminals

[princeofromance]

Yes they do.