Safety or Freedom. Which one would you rather have?

[Amur8711]

Safety

Freedom

[Lliam]

"Give me liberty or give me death."

Everyone wants to be safe to go about their lives without fear of exploitation, abuse, or assault. Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Can there be happiness without the liberty to pursue it?

What many people don't realize is, the most effective tool if dictators is fear. They create insecurity (sometimes only in people's minds) in order to gain acceptance of solutions to the insecurity. But the dictator is motivated by power and control, not concern for public safety.

"Fear is a very powerful weapon. Fear doesn't give you the freedom to decide... Don't act out of fear."

“Hegelian dialectic - problem, reaction, solution - is a psychological tool used to manipulate the masses. In this case, you create a problem, wait for the reaction, and then offer the solution. What people historically fail to realize, though, is that those offering the solution are the same people who caused the problem in the first place. They also fail to realize that no matter what the solution is, it always ends up providing its creators with more power.”
― Brad Thor

Fear is being used to manipulate the public
https://dailyprogress.com/fear-is-being-used-to-manipulate-the-public/article_3b5d0cc5-3a13-5b4a-a251-0826a7d12140.html

[Jamie05rhs]

"Hegelian dialectic". That's EXACTLY what Anthony Fauci did!! 😲

[ludorock]

I'd like to maybe try and phrase this a different way?

Freedom to and Freedom from.

Freedom to practice whatever religion I choose, freedom to make medical choices for myself, freedom to drive, freedom to marry who I love...

Freedom from violent shooters at school, freedom from toxic water and air, freedom from religious persecution...

Freedom and safety are not antithetical to each other, they're two sides of the same coin - to and from. We need both of them to function. The founding fathers gave us freedom from religious persecution, they gave us freedom to choose our own religion - that satisfies both sides of that coin. The freedom from part is that part that imposes restrictions - because we have the FREEDOM TO choose our own religion, it means that we must be FREE FROM persecution for that choice. That immediately imposes limitations on other peoples' total freedom.

Because the life, liberty and happiness of all was more important than the right to degrade, berate or even murder people based on religious difference. NOT THAT IT STOPPED ANYONE FROM DOING THAT, there are plenty of cases of people having loopholes or violating that 'freedom from' but that's how it always is.

It's never about just safety (freedom from) or just freedom (freedom to), it's about both, and it's about what is our responsibility as citizens, friends and family to each other? Freedom requires respect and responsibility. Look at teenagers who are given total freedom before their frontal lobe/impulse control develops. Freedom is a responsibility. If we can take it that way then maybe we wouldn't need to put it in opposition to safety.

[vald9inches]

Freedom means taking responsibility for yourself and yourself alone sweetheart. No one is responsible for anyone the only thing we can do is use our freedom is to voice our opinions and beliefs leave law making to science and science alone not politicians

[Smoke-n-Growls]

I don't think enough men on this app really know what freedom actually means. Or what safety means. Or what the passage of time does.

Freedom over safety in the modern day means I could shoot you in the face for your hot dog and I suffer no consequences. Except for a free hot dog.

Safety has evolved over the centuries we've been around. The world is certainly a different place now than it was when the Founding Fathers forged America.

And that's due in part to the safeties and structures America's democracy created, and the hard fought victories along the way of Civil and Human Rights movements. And there's still a long way to go on those fronts, too.

Freedom allowed us to create safety. Safety allows us to pursue freedom.

We need both.

[JimBeams]

That's quite the analogy you came up with. But your freedoms end, where mine begins. You're free to shoot yourself in the face.

[Amur8711]

Just a small correction. We aren't a democracy.

I agree with you on some things. What needs paired with Freedom is rights of the individual, and thats what creates safety. But pure safety above Freedom is a prison and turns everyone into subjects.

[Jaysonava]

That's true. It's an American dichotomy

[captain_voidwalker]

Thats where your wrong. Freedom isn't bieng able to shoot someone for a hot dog. Its bieng able to shoot the guy who's trying to shoot you for your hot dog

[vald9inches]

You really think your safety and life matters to someone else who happens to be in a position of power? You are certainly a naive little girl sweetheart...

[Smoke-n-Growls]

@JimBeams oh noooo, big strong man with a guuun. So scared. Totally didn't see this response coming.

@Amur8711 Agreed we need both. I voted Safety because there was no "both" option and I knew the alt-right faction here would chose Freedom and I didn't want to lump my vote with them.

@captain_voidwalker But who's to say it wasn't MY hot dog he stole from me and I'm just getting it back? What now?

@vald9inches Lol, you really think you have a position of power? What do you think this is, the 1930s?

[JimBeams]

You're the one with the gun who wanted to shoot someone.

[vald9inches]

@Smoke-n-Growls wtf are you even smoking? 😂 What makes you think I personally have a position of power and for some reason wasting my time talking with you?

[vald9inches]

You need to reread what I said

[LaFerrari]

Freedom doesn’t exist nor does safety calm down

[Amur8711]

@LaFerrari explain.

[abc3643]

The mere fact that humans have civilization means that they gave up freedoms for safety.

After all, what's freer than a wild animal? Nothing. Well, humans were living in clans (herds?) as nomadic wild animals until about 12000 years ago when civilization was born. Why was civilization born, when we were perfectly free before that? Fear. Fear of starvation. With the invention of agriculture, humans could adequately feed themselves and, because of that, civilization was born and, with it, its members lose freedoms but are no longer the ultimately free wild animals that lived in fear of death... that fear is the one thing that they were not free of.

Which ought to teach you a lesson.
Freedom is great, but it's scary as shit and all animals prefer safety over abstract ideas like freedom.
Remember that. The very Internet you are using at this moment was created by a species that opted for safety over "freedom".

[TheorionMage]

I'm aware of Benjamin Franklin's admonition HOWEVER...
'civility' is an unseen chain. You are ONLY as 'free' as the length and scripted limits OF that chain.
OTHERS are reciprocally 'safe' BECAUSE OF the limits of THAT chain.

That prayer: "The Lord is my Shepard..." carries an implicit message.
The relationship between Shepard & sheep is a mutual symbiosis... NOT selfless affection.
Their flock provides BOTH sustenance and ongoing revenue vs. the sheep's greater ongoing PERSONAL risk.
Those occasions of periodic harvested 'tribute' over time devolve into cultural 'ritual'.

[KAT247]

Safety >>>>>OR<<<<< freedom?
Are you saying that to be safe you have to give up your freedom? I’d reevaluate your ideas if I were you. If government is saying that they will keep you safe at the price of your freedoms and rights, run. Safety is the last thing they are thinking about.

[vald9inches]

Benjamin Franklin said that hence the thumbnail for this question lol

[KAT247]

He was a wise man

[vald9inches]

Indeed he was!

[OfDeath]

This is a grey area but safety can be a path to freedom and in this situation, that is what we're talking about. We are not free when we're sick, our health is a measure of our abilities and our abilities are a measure of our freedom.

Our freedom is impinged upon when we're barred from certain activities and opportunities unless we are vaccinated. However, if we don't get vaccinated, we're captive to the natural consequences of a global pandemic.

So you have to draw the line somewhere. Black and white boundaries don't really give us the flexibility to achieve the best possible outcomes.

Everything in life has a risk associated with it and getting vaccinated is safer than getting covid-19. Sometimes you just have to give people a kick up the arse because they're too stupid to realise what is good for them.

[Twalli]

Also the freedom saftey quote is wrong. Laws are giving up freedom for safety. Pretty much everyone follows laws. You are giving up freedom for safety. You want those that violate those laws to be punished and locked away. Freedom for safety. I have never been hit by a car because I cross crosswalks at red lights. Freedom for safety of everyone. You have to give up freedoms for safety. You lose one and gain the other. The issue is where you draw the line, you want it at close to 50-50 to maximize both.

[Kate_Utt]

Freedom. I had a serious debate with myself before declaring this answer. Much of the reasoning hinges upon “choice". Unless you are free to choose any part of your life or career you will always be discontented. Security is a prison within which you must forever fit. Even if you make the “wrong” choice or choices along the road of time, you were in control and remain in control now to ensure that you don't do that again.

[vald9inches]

Lovely and well thought out answer! Bravo! I rarely see such deep and thoughtful reflection like this in a comment! ❤️❤️❤️

[Kate_Utt]

Thank you

[PikNik77]

Look at the most dangerous countries in the world then tell me how free its people are!

[m33lad]

Why aren’t you in North Korea? You seem to think free countries are dangerous. Iran is dangerous. Go there trying walking around without a head covering in 60 degrees summer. I’m sure you’d enjoy that. people who think gov should all the rights for the safety soon see themselves in tyranny. Yaaah give all the tanks and guns to a small selective of people. Yaaah I’m sure they’d want the best for you. Because I don’t you’re so useful to them? Baaah! No one there why you’re fat. Waiting for the gov to take of your health too?

[PikNik77]

@m33lad you totally misunderstood my comment. Dangerous countries are not free. My point was safety does not always beget freedom, but generally freedom ensures safety. Of course the words safety and freedom can be viewed rather objectively. 😜

[Lliam]

You nailed it, PikNik77.

[m33lad]

The reason why is objective because those people who want safety don’t learn nothing from history. Those who give up freedom for safety don’t know where is going to lead. Look at Cuba and China and Iran and North Korea. There is your answer. I don’t even want police. Is not the job of gov to keep us safe. I live in South Asia. You almost never see police presents here. But is on of the safest places I’ve Been too. And no one calls the cops here for pity shit. Why is it so safe? Because of buddhist religion. We become and do what we believe in. That’s why criminals exists and no matter how many cops they hire. They don’t just disappear.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

Why do Americans are so extremist and put people to take radical decision.
Like this. Is like, choise any color you want, black or white, but i want orange. Is like i have no other options.
I will choise safety, my freedome can be limitate to some points, but not completly.

[humanearth]

Freedom.

i know what your poll is showing, but people are their asses off.

Do they use Google, Facebook, fly and deal with the TSA, get forced vaccines, have a cellphone that shows their location and everything they do traced and tracked.

People are fucking sheep, we are being treated like cattle and they don't care. They will start caring once the gas chambers doors close in on them.

[PoliteSpeaker]

Humanity works toward more freedom. It is the only thing we are working toward. More free to express yourself. More free to do what you like. More free to be free. More free to say what you want. More free to chase your dreams. More free to be me. If I wanna be freee I gotta be me. BUT I DIDN'T HEAR PEOPLE COMPLAINING WHEN YOUR CHILD HAS TO GET CERTAIN SHOTS TO ENTER SCHOOL... WHERE WAS ALL THE FREEDOM TALK THEN. So I don't believe this is about freedom.

[Smashingdoozy]

If freedom comes with an insane increased risk of myself and others I care about dying, I don't want it.

[disgustingweebtrash]

You'll just love what safety will have in store for you

[vald9inches]

I see the Nazi example was too much lol

[Smashingdoozy]

You're not free if you're not safe ✌🏻

[vald9inches]

Tell that to a caged bird 😢

[disgustingweebtrash]

You're free if the people making you safe kill you. You're free from suffering ever again. I think you're actually right!

[Anonymous]

I think everyone gonna choose freedom, on here, when they have a chance to use their brains and think. But out in real life, too many people buy into the fear bs, and pee their pants being scared for their safety.

Reminds me of a movie called The Village. If anyone's seen it, they know the lies that were used to push fear in order to gain control. :o

[Hypnos0929]

There's a balance. It's the responsibility of the government to ensure people remain both free and safe, especially when we are paying them for that very purpose.
I'd prefer safety over freedom in the end though because I don't trust my fellow Americans not to screw me over when given the opportunity. Sorry, not sorry but a lot of y'all are psychopaths and jerks.

[standardguy]

Safety is not bad, but if the USA would have surrendered to the soviet union in the 1970 years there would have been safety since then but no freedom.
Freedom is also the right to select the own creed. A right that was suppressed by the Catholic Church at medieval times.
Now we know why the president preferred 'safety'...

[dwiller943]

Freedom. Safety actually makes it impossible to know how to defend yourself when real danger happens.

[saffoler]

Always freedom; if I can choose I can always choose to be safe.

[Miristheiss]

I thought this had already been settled 240 years ago "Give me Liberty or Give me Death" but since the question is being posed again.

Freedom (liberty).

[demonics]

This is what ultimate security looks like... and people STILL get murdered here. So sorry ladies, the security you desire is a fantasy.

[Oigit]

One side of the debate would be plugged into a simulation under the pretense of safety. The other side would be plugged into the same simulation under the pretense of protecting their freedoms.

[JROX23]

We the people dont give a fuck! We want freedom and fuck all of you who answered this differently you fucking cowards🇺🇸

[VanillaSalt]

This was a good discussion then you went asinine on us…

[Wester1967]

I’d rather not have a Neo liberal corporate government selling me the idea that they actually allow freedom. I’m not a corporate stooge sucker.