Ever since Texas' abortion laws came into the news, I've been thinking and rethinking my position on abortion.
The liberal side suggests that it's a women's body and government has no right in it (so to speak). However, once the woman has a child developing inside of her, is it just her body we're speaking about? And, for that matter, doesn't the father who has created that embryo have any say as to what should happen?
I really do think that the concept of, "My body, my choice" shows a lack of consideration to both the father and child; the more I've thought about it, it shows a lack of full comprehension.
What's your position on the current abortion debates?
The rest of the world had this conversation decades ago and moved along since it has been settled so thoroughly that no one really feels the need to look back.
To answer your thoughts, philosophers, scientists and politicians have asked themselves the same questions over and over again until they reached a pretty final conclusion that can basically be summarized as "My body, my choice."
Essentially it boils down to what we consider personhood and our fundamental human rights. Its not a big secret that scientists and philosophers has been hunting the definition of "life" and where it starts for a very long time and to make a very complicated and long story short, while we can't nail it down perfectly we can pretty much establish a range in which a sperm and egg transition to a "human being" with their own human rights and countries around the world uses this range as the limit of where they allow abortions since up to there its definitely not "alive" in a human sense (which is different from a biological sense).
So why does the father have so little right over what happens to the baby and is that not unfair? Unfortunately that line of question is instantly stonewalled by the establishment of fundamental human rights. Does not matter how "unfair" someone might find it but because the child is grown "out of" the womans body she holds the singular right to decide what happens to it for the majority of time.
The area where we have narrowed down where life starts does change things slightly. There is an argument to be made that at that point its no longer considered part of the mothers body since they are their own person but at that point the child also has the right to a family which sinks the fathers ability to escape responsibility.
As for Texas regressing, and yes it is regressing, I think it perfectly demonstrates how backwards USA has become compared to the rest of the developed world.
I respect your argument but disagree on several points.
In the U. S. the law has always centered around Roe v. Wade, which was handed down in the early 70s (1972?). Law is something that is not always black and white; in fact, rarely is it. It's always something that is designed to grow and change as the people in general want it to change. That's why the nine justices setting on the Supreme Court contain so much power. The difference is that the court now leans right versus left as it did in passing Roe V. Wade.
Whether you consider it regressing or evolving depends on what side you might find yourself.
This is one of the major failings in America, that justice has a "political leaning". The fact that the supreme court is "leaning left/right" is an outrageous statement since they are supposed to be their own branch of government and independent of politics rather than beholden to them.
The decision regarding abortion around the world was not agreed upon based on political views but by examining the facts and our human values (such as the universal human rights). The fact that USA puts a political spin on the question is a very clear regression in my opinion.
Many individuals are not balanced -- take yourself for example; at least on this subject matter, you lean heavily left. There are others that are much more conservative. I don't know that is anything political, only that some people consider the child and/or the father's rights whereas others don't.
USA is not the only conservative country in the world. You can't just blame it on us having different ideologies when other conservative countries also agreed on abortion.
Appreciate that. I don't consider myself either liberal or conservative; I try to look at each subject on its own merits. After strongly thinking abut it, though, I don't see how anyone might suggest that it's only about the mother.
It's the property of the mother to keep or dispose of as she sees fit. In nature many animals will abandon or even eat their baby if they don't want it. Even humans have that natural instinct. Abortion ends the pregnancy long before any human traits develop so the mother is not burdened for life with an unwanted child and just as important the child doesn't grow up knowing it was unwanted.
In colonies of bee and ants, there is a queen. She has absolute authority within the nest. She creates the drones and workers; all that are assigned a specific function. It's that one function they live and die for — not to accomplish anything else during their own life cycle.
So I guess, using your series of logic, that we should all live under an entirely social life style — and maybe not just social but a full on totalitarian society.
I can accept one's belief that the father and child's position in the matter should be entirely disregarded. I may not agree with it at this point, but at least one's argument has some form of merit. But the concept that it should be accepted and legal because animals may eat their young is absolutely absurd!!!
The hard right wing thinkers in the world must love you for making such an argument on behalf of the liberal left.
And thankfully humans always have the option of adoption — probably a better choice then snacking on their young as a midnight snack!
I agree with the points you've made. There is no easy solution that will be fair to all involved. I've just come to the place where I don't really have a side. Abortion is something I wouldn't choose for myself, but I don't feel I should voice an opinion on what others should do.
You only care about your 'ego' and urge to control a woman due to insecurity. DID YOU FORGOT THAT EVERY WOMAN'S SITUATION IS DIFFERENT? Some of us don't like pregnancy at all. Ultimately it's woman who's life is at risk, she'll develop life long side effects like diabetes, high BP, permanent cesarean scar. She is NOT A CATTLE/BABY machine. Who the hell are you? Nothing is happening to YOUR body and it's just the cluster of cells. Stop being ignorant and selfish. If you're so concerned then go plant a uterus inside yourself and endure 9 months of torture and life threatening labor.
Thank you for responding. I enjoyed reading your position.
I can appreciate that it's the woman carrying the child for nine months. I've thought about this for quite some time. It's the main argument that the liberal side uses to suggest it should be strictly the woman's choice. So then why shouldn't it be her choice to either not engage in relations that would result in pregnancy or use contraception that would help protect in becoming pregnant?
Once conception has occurred, it no longer becomes one person's concern.
But those males run away later. They don't wanna be father but will still force her to give birth. So how it's fair? That's why I'm a virgin. But different situations as in what if a girl was raped?
I don't think that's necessarily why you're a virgin 🤣
Sorry. I couldn't help myself. That was just too easy.
Maybe if she's not that confident in him sticking around, she shouldn't be doing things to get pregnant in the first place. She might want to wait until they're married.
I would have no problem with abortions and having it be 100% the Woman’s choice if the Father could freely absolve himself of all his responsibilities if the Mother decided to keep the child. If the Mother can terminate the pregnancy due to financial reasons, the Father should also have the right to walk away due to financial reasons as well.
If you take the interest of the child out of consideration, then you might suggest that the law should prohibit an abortion unless both parents are in agreement. Without such consideration, the father should hold no responsibility in the raising of cost of the child.
I live New York we also have restrictions like Texas. I wish New York could allow late term abortion on demand without any reason. I’m for abortion for where I live but don’t really care if some other region of the world restricts it unless it’s my community.
With the Supreme Court's more conservative ruling, I think you might find your "community" being the United States; at least that's the line of thinking since the Court handed down its decision about Texas.
If New York and it’s relativity conservative here, not saying it’s not possible but I live many miles away from Texas. I do have friends in Texas, I’ve had sex with a lot of women from Texas it is part of my country yes but if I get a girl pregnant again I wouldn’t care because it’s legal to 24 weeks (still more restrictions than I would like), but what can I do?
If New York passes the heartbeat bill I think a Wyoming County NY senator tried to in like 2012 but it was tossed away and not even looked at but I’m sure Pennsylvania will ban it after 5-6 weeks and crowd our healthcare system.
Appreciate your comments. I think the ultimate end here is overturning Roe v. Wade. The Court has too much strength on the right, so many people in the U. S. may have to accept that abortions overall become illegal. And I'm not too sure that is a bad thing.
I think abortion is immoral but criminalizing it isn’t going to work.
The reason abortions are happening all the time because people think they must have sex with strangers to live a happy life and that women have zero control over how often they get pregnant, neither of which is true.
If women realized they have more moral agency than our society leads them to believe they do, most of them wouldn’t be in any need of an abortion in the first place.
When you suggest abortion should be legal, do you feel neither the father or child should be taken under consideration? Or might you be suggesting it should only be legal under extra ordinary circumstances where the child might be born critically deformed?
I don’t endorse getting an abortion because you like to sleep around and just don’t wanna take responsibility. Having said that, I do believe it should ultimately be the woman’s choice.
I appreciate the thought, but it sounds like you want to be on both sides of the fence.
The woman, as well as the guy, sleeps around and winds up expecting a bundle of joy. You ultimately have to suggest she should have the right to abort or not.
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