Abortion: Is it Hypocritical to be Pro-Life without also being a Vegan?

Question

Yes, I'm opening up a can of worms with this one.

And while I'm pro-choice, but I also think any woman having more than one abortion in her lifetime is probably a sh*tty human being.

I know how a good 45-50% of the GAG userbase is conservative, and thus, strongly pro-life. When I got asked about why I am not pro-life/am pro-choice, I simply told what I think:

- I believe the "life is sacred" line is garbage,
- I don't consider terminating a first-trimester fetus as "baby murder" (although I think third-trimester abortion should be illegal),
- People are already killing each other everyday and no one bats an eye when it happens halfway across the world from them,
- Too many people are born into this world unloved (and end up serial killers, rapists, mentally damaged, and other bad people from it),
- Some people just aren't fit to be parents,
- Adoption is a financial drain on the state,
- Some women are raped and had no choice in being pregnant,
- I find it better to have not been born at all than to life a sh*tty life, unloved by parents who never wanted you (which I myself know very well),
- And lastly, most pro-life people aren't also vegans (some are even hunters), which makes them a bit hypocritical.

Thus, I'm asking:

HOW CAN ONE BE PRO-LIFE IF THEY ARE WILLING TO KILL AND EAT ANIMALS, INCLUDING BABY ANIMALS?

I'm not a vegan, by the way. I don't even like vegans.

And no, you don't get to say the "humans are more special than animals" bullsh*t cause a fetus isn't even a born human being, yet. Actual living mammals outclass an unborn fetus. So don't try that excuse.

While I am pro-life, it's not a passionate issue to me, since I believe in always wearing a rubber and not going raw and leaving it solely up to the woman's discretion, if you don't want kids. You stick your dick in something, you better be prepared to accept the consequences for it. However, for the points above, I'm still for (first trimester) abortions.

So, I'm opening the floodgates, now.

globetrotter22 · Accepted Answer

There are tons of counter arguments to this one bro. It’s a felony to kill a certain kind of protected shellfish but nothing wrong with killing a baby fetus. Also I really like how insane PETA is about protecting animal rights (they once got pissed at Obama for swatting a fly, I’m not kidding) but most of them are pro choice.

When it comes down to it I think BOTH sides of the aisle are missing the entire f*cking point. While I’m pro life I’m also VERY pro birth control. I fully support state funded birth control for women (and free condoms and vasectomies for men). Also think we need new advanced research into contraceptive technology. They say no birth control is 100% effective but they are getting close. Let’s do all we can to stop white from meeting red.

But once the egg is fertilized it’s a game changer. That is NOT a clump of cells but a living organism with its own DNA. I know that opens its own can of worms but we really need to overhaul the adoption process and encourage more responsible people to adopt from women who aren’t ready to be mothers. On top of that women are putting off child bearing for their careers then trying to get pregnant later in life (which is difficult and risky).

The only time I think abortion is justified is in rape, incest or a threat to the mother’s physical (not mental that’s bs semantics) health. Also in rare cases I think abortion might be justified if prenatal testing determines there is something wrong with the baby (Down syndrome) and the mother already doesn’t want the child.

For some odd bizarre reason pro choice advocates suddenly become pro life when I bring up pre natal testing. Weird how they no problem killing perfectly healthy baby fetuses but if I bring up aborting a baby fetus that has a serious physical/mental ailment it’s now evil eugenics. I see those cases as debatable.

Anyway we seriously need to focus on stopping unwanted pregnancies to begin with. I don’t get why the hell everybody is missing the boat on that.

shortster · Accepted Answer

I think that it is more hypocritical to be a vegan and pro-abortion. As if you don't view an unborn child as a human life; surely you can still see it as an animal life? As a non-vegan, I don't believe animals lives are as important as human lives. Which is why I am anti-cannibalism.

lilyanony1 · Answer

I agreed with all your points including wrapping it up except the vegan thing.

Personally in my experience I was a pescatarian for four years between 2006/2010 unfortunately during this time I actually suffered severe diet problems which lead to excessive weight loss and I was also suffering from high cholesterol and the start of my anxiety.

There was a guy who was on the uk ninja warrior who experienced similar issues.
Unfortunately some people and I'm going to go as far as saying most people can't handle a diet without protein from meat.

It's be richest and purest form. I do agree we eat too much of it and I do actively try to ensure I have meat 3 nights max a week. The blessing of adjusting my diet meant I learnt about healthier eating and have incorporated that into my diet and it is a lot more nutritional.
Hunting as a sport is pretty much illegal whether it's actually law or not.
Animals should be protected unless they're reared solely for produce. And even then they should have the best possible life until then.

Our demand for meat though is in excess and I don't think. We know how to go back to moderation and that is why we have the issues we do.

Having had abortions and miscarriages they weren't decisions that came lightly and the dates they happened I mourn my losses of all of them. I'd have loved to have been a mother.
But unfortunately the timing was wrong, the choice was taken from me as I was using contraception. Yes I should have been using condoms but in this particular situation my partner and I hardly had sex due to his work schedule and I had been on the pill since I was 16, to regulate my polycystic ovaries.

I didn't want to abort initally but my ex freaked out and accused me of cheating. Demanded I do a second test, since I was 19 and he 21. Even when it said positively he didn't want me to tell his or my parents. Even though he said he's support my decision. He left it to me. I tried to sound my mum out and she told me if I were to get pregnant at that time that she'd kick me out.
My grandparents were already judging my cousin who was pregnant at 21 even though my grandmother had her first child with my granddad at 16 so wtf!

I was backed into a corner and it was all too much to handle.

I didn't want to be the typical single black mum, unable to tell my child why daddy isn't around, struggling to feed them because I was barely out of school.

I stand by my decision and I think the others were handled because I was so distraught.

I am no longer on contraception and I'm no longer having sex but my life isn't better for it.

I just know that in the event I have a family the circumstances have to be better than they were then.

And as an FYI the guy I was with was messing with me. His intention was never to be with me long term, his sole purpose was to destroy me, why I don't know. I had never hurt anyone in the past I was always the outcast. But he brought his fugged up childhood into my life. I was just too inexperienced to know that people could be like this.
Why didn't I read?
My mum is a sociopath herself she controlled everything I read and do.

Even til now if I mention anything she searching the Internet to ensure its appropriate material!
I'm 30 years old!

Rachelspiks · Answer

"I believe the "life is sacred" line is garbage" - MC
You can believe that if you want to, but you're wrong. Human life IS sacred.
"I don't consider terminating a first-trimester fetus as "baby murder" (although I think third-trimester abortion should be illegal)" - MC
Why? What's so special about that particular stage in the development of the baby? Any particular reason why you chose it, or did you just throw a dart at a board?
"People are already killing each other everyday and no one bats an eye when it happens halfway across the world from them" - MC
Relevance? When people kill each other, it's still wrong even if others don't "bat an eye". What's right and wrong isn't determined via majority opinion; no one gets to vote on it.
"Too many people are born into this world unloved (and end up serial killers, rapists, mentally damaged, and other bad people from it)" - MC
You're basically saying that they'd be better off dead, which is bizarre. Life isn't easy, but I would have thought that everyone would agree that even a hard life is better than no chance at life in the first place.
"Some people just aren't fit to be parents" - MC
Virtually no one is. It's something you have to learn as you go along.
"Adoption is a financial drain on the state" - MC
Yes, and we all know that money is the most important thing in life, even more important than people's lives.
"Some women are raped and had no choice in being pregnant" - MC
True, but that's extremely uncommon. The vast majority of women who want to abort could quite easily have avoided getting pregnant in the first place if only they'd used a bit of common sense, which apparently isn't as common as it used to be.
"I find it better to have not been born at all than to life a shitty life, unloved by parents who never wanted you (which I myself know very well)" - MC
You're not the only one who has had an absolutely shitty life.
"And lastly, most pro-life people aren't also vegans (some are even hunters), which makes them a bit hypocritical." - MC
Okay, this is where you truly go off the deep-end here. I mean, what the... ? Where's the logic? Do you even know what being pro-life means? I'll give you a hint. It's got nothing to do with the lives of animals, so a person can be a carnivore and still value HUMAN life.
I'm not a vegan. I'm not even a vegetarian, but I'm pro-life, and no, that doesn't make me a hypocrite.

worldscolide · Answer

They aren't one in the same. Begin vegan places all life above their own. And get this, Most vegans are pro choice. By your statement that would make them bigger hypocrites if they weren't pro life.

As to some of your other statements.. The case for abortion in cases of rape, child molestation, incest, and health issues make up less than.01% of abortions. The VAST majority of abortions are "Oh god im not ready, but i was too stupid to use a condom or birth control so im going to have an invasive procedure to kill the fetus..

To address these

- I believe the "life is sacred" line is garbage,
__ Agreed
- I don't consider terminating a first-trimester fetus as "baby murder"
__ Also agreed
- People are already killing each other everyday and no one bats an eye when it happens halfway across the world from them,
__ Irrelevant hyperbole, apples to oranges comparison
- Too many people are born into this world unloved
__ Again irrelevant, has nothing to do with terminating a pregnancy.
- Some people just aren't fit to be parents,
__ While true, Again irrelevant, they chose to have sex, they chose to accept the consequences of sex
- Adoption is a financial drain on the state,
__ That is not how adoption works, Its usually handled through an agency. they only time its a drain on the state is when the child is taken from the parents and placed in foster care of some kind, Source, I have been through the system, having spent most of my child in foster care.
- Some women are raped and had no choice in being pregnant,
__ While true, less than.01% of abortions are due to rape or any kind of assault or abuse.
- I find it better to have not been born at all than to life a sh*tty life, unloved by parents who never wanted you,
__ This i cannot argue with, On that same token, i was born into that kind of life, and i personally would rather have lived than been aborted.. Right now i have a fantastic life.
- And lastly, most pro-life people aren't also vegans (some are even hunters), which makes them a bit hypocritical.
__ Apples to oranges comparison, and again irrelevant. Animals are not sentient, they are alive but they are not capable of anything beyond functioning on instinct, They do not think, they do not create, they do not contribute to society beyond being food, or pets. Human life is sentient, it thinks, it creates, it builds.. Vast difference.

Here is the interesting thing. I am mostly pro choice, though using abortion as a form of birth control, and especially having repeated abortions is stupidity. I just feel like using logic errors, or thinking errors like the ones above to justify it is wrong. Admit what you're doing, you're aborting/killing human life. It is what it is. Dehumanizing a fetus they way most pro choice people do is the same thinking patterns murderers, rapists, and all around evil people do to dehumanize their victims. They justify it, make it ok. I don't care if you want an abortion, go for it, get one, just don't minimize what you're doing.

Shizunk · Answer

I don't even have strong views on abortions, but structurally, you arguments for pro-choice are frankly garbage, as I will briefly mention below. But since that's not the point of your question, lets skip that detail and focus on the fun topic of animal genocide, which is something that I actually think is a fairly important topic. I just wouldn't arrive at it from the abortion angle and you did not really explain why there should be a link in the first place.
But what you are getting at, albeit in a somewhat chaotic way, is fascinating. We modern and infinitely moral people tend to agree that murder is always wrong and things like slavery are too. Start asking questions, and you soon realize that pretty much nobody knows why exactly that should be the case. Can you show me the exact logical argument from first principles as to why owning slaves is in any way a problem? Why I can't chop off my neighbor's head? My neighbor is an old, weak and annoying person and why do you even care since you don't live in the same city? Who is he to you that you would defend his right to life, even though you have never met him? He will die soon of some old age issue anyway, so why not spare him his final misery and spare ourselves a considerable expense. After all, most of the money spent on healthcare is spent to give a few extra years to old malfunctioning people. So much money to be had for something else... We usually recognize that such dehumanization to justify murder is unacceptable. It is really no different when talking about a baby, you are still dehumanizing and justifying the killing that way. But I already agreed to not go too deep into that flaw in your argument. What I am trying to say is that even though we agree that murder is wrong, the exact reason why that is, has giant consequences for what we think in other, less obvious cases like animal rights. You could argue that we own ourselves and even a child or a person who is mentally ill and loses the ability to understand the world is still fundamentally able to own their body and actions, and that somehow prevents us from murdering them. You could make a utilitarian argument, trying to maximize wellbeing regardless of consequence. Or try along the lines of "if we allow people to kill one another, eventually they will find justification to go after you or someone you love as well. This is why it's not just slightly inconvenient, but instead absolutely prohibited, because any exception may backfire in a major way." That last one is closest to my intuitive understanding of how we arrived to today's intuition that knows no exception despite not knowing why, despite that fact that we do not agree on which moral framework we are using to arrive at our shared answer. Those who have no selfish interest to stop them - criminals - will simply be arrested or killed in defense by those who do have skin in the game. Maybe they care about their children, or the children of a friend, etc. and want t o cultivate a society that will keep them safe from harm. If however this is the moral basis, then animals simply not being humans is the entire reason you can kill them at whim. It can never backfire on you, so you have no reason to hold back from a selfish standpoint. Another idea was that our ability for abstract reasoning is the reason why we have rights. If a dog misbehaves, his owner is the only one able to comprehend the problem and will be held responsible. The animal can therefore never be a moral subject, and becomes an object as a result. Object that can be owned, used and destroyed for any reason..

Dragonpurple · Answer

I care for HUMAN life... I don't care for food life, after all... literally everything we eat is/was alive at some point.

Lets just say we shouldn't eat anything that was alive, well plants are alive... is that fair to them? What gives animals more right to not be eaten than animals?

Those that switch to insects, those are alive, same thing. What kind of food is there that wasn't alive, even moss is alive. I guess rocks if you want to eat them are not.

Although I will say I am pro-life, I fully support rape victims being given (during their medical exam) the morning after pill. I know lots of pro-life people think that is still murder, but that is where I'm a bit of a hybrid. I don't consider that to be abortion or murder. In fact it should be a LEGAL requirement.

There is some messed up stuff though too, where a woman can get an abortion and its legal but if someone kills her, its a double murder, like WTF! Or if someone just beats her up and causes a miscarriage's, they often get charged with murder, but how can that be murder if she can legally abort it and it isn't considered murder?

This is where I support changing laws to say forced abortion charge, can be the same penalty as murder, just don't call it murder.

Anonymous · Answer

There are  very few  true pro-lifers because they are neither willing to be vegan nor are they willing to pay for social programs to help these babies and their parents they "care so much about" nor are they all against the death penalty. Pro-life for many of these people means only right up until a baby is born and they don't give two craps about the animal kingdom aside from their own pets. I mean quite honestly, how do you stand up there and scream, "all lives matter," or "a fetus is a baby," and then you're perfectly fine with killing another animals child? There are several animals who we can see do feel pain at the death or consumption of their children by other animals (including humans) so animals do in fact feel, just as we do, but because we're top of the food chain, and to admit that animals feel, would cripple their whole argument that all life matters (again, just until it's born, the rest of their lives is totally irrelevant to them), so it's just an at the moment convenient thing to say that you are pro-life, but there is typically no real commitment to that or follow through after conception.

MisteryMe · Answer

While I understand where you're coming from, I'm not sure if I would say that it's hypocritical to be pro-life and not be vegan. Humans have a tendency to value human life above other life forms for a few legitimate reasons. We're biologically programed to want to ensure the survival of our own species above all others. We have more complex brains, thought processes, and emotions than other animals. We also live longer than most. Therefore, we get more attached and are more affected by loss.

However, people tend to mistake the value they place on human life for humans being the most important species. We aren't more important that other species. In fact, we're a blight on the Earth. We're responsible for environmental destruction on a tremendous scale, mass pollution, the extinction of entires species, and so much more. No other species has caused even 1% of the harm we have. While humans do some good for other species, I think it's safe to say that, all things considered, the planet and many other species on it would have been better off if we never existed.

So, maybe it's not so much an issue of being hypocritical as it is being self-important.

Cherry234 · Answer

Yep, it certainly is. Killing is killing, no matter the species. If those people want to eat meat so badly or even hunt animals themselves, then why can't they just accept that some women want to get abortions? They're just a bunch of judgmental pricks that aren't any better. I have no problem with a person being vegan or not. I'm not vegan either. I also hate it when they call you names like "baby killer" or call you a "murderer" because you're pro-choice. They're "murderers" too. If they want to call people names, call them the same names back

Diodoro · Answer

No

Fundamentally vegans equate animal life to human lives. Many even put animal life above human lives if you consider the fact that they only take issue with humans eating other animals, but are completely fine with other predators eating animals.

Non-vegans don't equate animal life to human life and therefore that distinction alone is enough to say it's not hypocritical. Otherwise Euthanasia would have never become a thing.

Anonymous · Answer

First off let me state that I’m pro life and vegetarian, no killing animals. Secondly, if someone is using strong protection responsibly and it fails and the baby is aborted immediately in the first month or so, that seems reasonable, so long as they have no heartbeat. Thirdly, abortion should at least be treated as the tragedy it is, I hate when women get high and mighty about it. And lastly, if you would rather a child not be born than be born to shitty parents, and you put yourself in that category, why do you still bother living? Sounds like you want to live to me

Razp_Sorbet · Answer

No, but it is hypocritical to be pro-life and not pro universal healthcare, free birth control and comprehensive sex Ed.

sp33d · Answer

No, it isn't. Veganism concerns animals and is some semi-religious "movement" against the part of the food industry that deals with animal products.

"I don't consider terminating a first-trimester fetus as "baby murder" I don't either, but that's just opinion, not very convincing. "And lastly, most pro-life people aren't also vegans (some are even hunters), which makes them a bit hypocritical." That's just opinion, again. The only thing I can think of that pro-life and vegan people have in common is their infatuation with giving extreme 'arguments'.

Anonymous · Answer

No. Veganism has nothing to do with pro-life vs pro-choice. That is about humans. First we have to stop hating other humans before we can care about animals. It is unrealistic to think others will care for animals when they don't care for their neighbors.

Ninani · Answer

No. Human life and animal life is not the same thing. I value human life (though I am pro-choice as a fetus is not yet human in my opinion) and I enjoy a good steak with a clean conscience.

BCA6010 · Answer

Not an issue unless you weigh the life of a non-human animal above that of a human fetus/baby. So that's an easy no.

t-8900 · Answer

my dad's friend found out his ex had an abortion after he begged her over and over again not to. He said he would do anything she asked. If she didn't want the child he would raise it alone without her needing to be involved even financially. Well she went against his wishes and after several calls from his work and some of his friends and no answer they went to check up on him. He was hanging from his kitchen ceiling. As far as I'm concerned she took 2 lives with her actions.

Anonymous · Answer

I’ve had an abortion and I like meat. If I have a second abortion I’m sure my reasons will be valid and not judged by anyone else. I rescue animals and have lots of very well looked after pets. I also volunteer for underprivileged kids. Blanket terms for other peoples choices are just wrong unless you have been in their shoes you can’t judge.

Anonymous · Answer

Yes and no. Veganism should be believed in by everyone. Because veganism is about limiting harm to the planet and unnecessary killing of animals, as much as practicably possible. Notice the word practicable and not practical there. That's in the official definition of veganism, and it makes it possible for even third worlders who need animal products to be vegan.
A common mutation in Poland for example is the inability to produce enough cholesterol to sustain life. But that mutation occurs globally. So until people have been tested for this mutation and others like it, they shouldn't just adopt a whole foods plant based diet, but they should still be a vegan especially if they're calling themselves pro life

molonski2 · Answer

Its a ludicrous assertion quite obviously.
One is murder of an unborn child , the other is the death of an animal that was bred to be consumed by the top of the food chain.
This thought that abortion is okey , and womens choice quite frankly is shameful , and for those who have done it , who hurts the most? The female who goes though with it and NEVER recovers later in life.

NicoletteXO · Answer

It depends on many factors. I’m more interested in hearing a person walk me through their thought process than making blanket judgements. After they walk me through, then I’ll make the relevant judgements 😂

Abortion: Is it Hypocritical to be Pro-Life without also being a Vegan?

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