Christians, Can You Be Pro-Life Regarding Abortion, And Also Be Pro-Gun And Anti-Illegal-Immigration?

[Physics-Man]

Yes

No

I'm not a Christian/Other

[BCRanger10]

Yes. In fact, for most of Christian history - meaning from the time of Christ until the Satan-worshipping sexual predator known as Joseph Bernardin, who, when he wasn't busy abusing altar boys, sometimes moonlighted as the cardinal-archbishop of Chicago, invented his idiotic "seamless garment theory" - most Christians did believe this.

Abortion is the direct and intentional killing of an unborn child and in the vast majority of cases, the child is at the mercy of his or her mother. It is intrinsically evil.

Being "pro-gun"? A gun is just a tool, and a tool is only as good or as evil as the person using it. Just read Luke 22.35-38. If the events reported to us in the Gospels happened today, you could easily switch out "sword" and "gun" and everything would be a-okay.

Regarding illegal immigration? Immigrants are just as bound to the Fourth Commandment, which compels us to obey lawful authority, as anyone else. Jesus also said "Render to Caesar that which belongs to Caesar." So if a nation's law says "Of course you're welcome to come here, but you have to do x, y, and z", then you have to do x, y, and z. Here's also an interesting homily on the subject...

https://www.youtube.com/embed/cPwZ7ixexYk

Now, there are those who will try to argue that because abortion and immigration and poverty and such all deal with matters relating to the dignity of human life that they should all be considered equally, that they're connected, or that they all carry the same moral weight. This is false. All this "seamless garment theory" does (which, let's just call it what it is, is the "Catholic way" to be pro-abortion) is diminishes the objective evil of abortion while exaggerating, if not outright fabricating the evils in these other issues. You will almost never, in vanishingly few instances, hear proponents of this way of thinking reverse the language. You will never hear Cardinal Blase Cupich, Father Jimmy Martin, Cardinal Bobby McElroy, or others of that ilk say "if you're going to show kindness to immigrants or oppose the death penalty, you also have to condemn abortion".

Now, it is true that Pope Leo XIV subscribes to this theory, but he is one of the few that I believe to hold it in good faith.

[Ariesman81]

Showing up with receipts... I like it👍🏻

[BCRanger10]

Thank you for MHO 🙌

[Snakeyes7]

Pro-life

Psalm 139:13 - "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb."

Isaiah 49:1 - "Listen to me, you islands; hear this, you distant nations: Before I was born the Lord called me; from my mother’s womb he has spoken my name."

Pro-gun/self-defense

Luke 22:36 - "He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."

Exodus 22:2 - “If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;"

Anti-illegal-immigration

Deuteronomy 28:43-45: "The foreigners who reside among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. They will lend to you, but you will not lend to them. They will be the head, but you will be the tail.

All these curses will come on you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the Lord your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you."

Isaiah 1:7: "Your country is desolate, your cities burned with fire; your fields are being stripped by foreigners right before you, laid waste as when overthrown by strangers."

[SamIam96]

Random cherry picking.

[Snakeyes7]

@SamIam96 Feel free to provide context to those verses if you think they are needed.

[OneViewpoint]

Christians can contort their brains and twist their religion to support infinite inconsistencies without ever recognizing their own hypocrisy. That ids the defining and defiling trait of Evangelical Christianity.

• Pro Life AND Pro Gun.
• Strive for spiritual growth AND Wealth Worship.
• Love thy neighbor AND hate brown immigrants or brown people in general,
• Feed the poor AND cut off their SNAP and healthcare.
• Religious tolerance for you AND religious persecution for the other guy.
• Reject physical pleasures for spiritual attainment AND be the major consumer of porn, fuck anything that moves, including altar boys and little girls, and the wives of church members.

No problem, Jesus don't care. All is forgiven. Just say you're sorry. See, a neat tidy justification for any hypocrisy and debauchery. Their "morality" really is derived from their sick twisted religion.

[HawkPerception]

I believe it should be a woman's right to have an abortion. The matter resides in her body. Not someone elses. It should not be the government's place to decide what she does with her body. It's also much more ethical than what women used to do when they didn't want the kid back in the past. They'd just leave the baby in the wilderness to die. 93% of abortions happen in the first trimester. Less than 1% happen in the third trimester. It should not be encouraged to have abortions left and right, but it should not be anyone elses choice.

I'm all for owning guns and I'm Canadian who's never touched a gun nor cared to in my life. I think criminals always find their ways to get them and I believe in castle law and believe innocent civilians should have the means to defend themselves and their families against those criminals.

And finally, I'm also anti-illegal-immigrantion and anti-mass-immigration. Open borders have ran all the western countries downhill. Import the third world, become the third world. Majority of illegal aliens do not integrate well. And hate to say it, but some cultures are better than others.

[Anonymous]

I feel like you can be pro life in a lot of regards (not as a devoted Christian, but a born Christian).
Pro Gun to protect the ones you love and yourself from harms way and hunting purposes while advocating for more to be done to prevent mass shootings in America.

Pro Life as in being against abortion as your own choice, while advocating for access to rape victims and those that pregnancy prevention measures failed.

And Pro Legal Immigration that doesn’t come at crossing the lines of dehumanizing individuals, separation of mothers and fathers from their babies and children, as well as make sure they go back to their homeland rather than being sent to a prison camp or concentration camp defined by Holocaust Museum references.

We don’t have to be reactionary, we can be logical.
Illegal immigration is bad however we have laws and morals as a dignified refined prideful nation, Abortion can be bad if for the wrong reasons, and guns can breath freedom for some folks especially those that kept the peace by fighting as our veterans (thank you for your service Physics Man) however are weapons of destruction that vile evil people utilize to end innocent human life.

[Summeroflove]

Well obviously and guns are to defend lives against people who want to take lives…. Anyways. By the way many mass shooters are leftists….. so that’s weird. And many criminals including illegals…. Oh get arrested on gun charges. But that’s okay. Let them have guns. And law abiding citizens have them taken… and defund the police too.

But things aren’t black and white. People can have different opinions on different things. I know some very pro abortion conservatives who I disagree with but… are conservative on everything else. I know some liberals who are very pro gun. Liberals who are leaning towards pro life. And against illegal immigration.

But. Anyone who isn’t a far left lunatic. Is labeled right wing.

[NoDecision]

The questions can be tough to answer, but I think you can be all of the above. Illegals are already breaking our laws. Guns protect our lives and freedom. And anyone who truly wants kids would be against abortion I would think.

[Chazmatazz269]

I’m not Christian, but there’s nothing mutually exclusive about those ideologies. The lunatic left likes to conflate them with their ignorant and frankly childish “logic”. Being pro-gun is not the same as being pro-crime. The right is pro-gun. The left is pro-crime. The left lets violent criminals run amok with impunity. The right wants to be able to arm themselves because of that. The left only wants to disarm law abiding citizens. It’s all about CONTROL and has nothing to do with guns.

[NathanDavis]

they can be Pro-Life and Against Life in the same heartbeat

same with who should be allowed to have guns... and move across borders as well

and that's just the norm everywhere and for everyone in politics

there's only Pro-My side and Against-Your Side

that is the reality...

[boundless]

Yep the doctrine of Christianity is crystal clear regarding being anti-abortion, pro-self defense with armaments, pro-preparedness, and pro-law abiding among it's followers.

[boundless]

1 Peter 2:13-17

Submission to Authority

13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. 16 Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. 17 Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

[boundless]

Luke 22:35-38

Scripture Must Be Fulfilled in Jesus

35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” 38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”

[boundless]

Exodus 20:13

13 “You shall not murder

Jeremiah 1:5
5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
and before you were born I consecrated you;
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Didache Chapter 2

The Second Commandment: Grave Sin Forbidden. And the second commandment of the Teaching; You shall not commit murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit pederasty, you shall not commit fornication, you shall not steal, you shall not practice magic, you shall not practice witchcraft, you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born. You shall not covet the things of your neighbor, you shall not swear, you shall not bear false witness, you shall not speak evil, you shall bear no grudge. You shall not be double-minded nor double-tongued, for to be double-tongued is a snare of death. Your speech shall not be false, nor empty, but fulfilled by deed. You shall not be covetous, nor rapacious, nor a hypocrite, nor evil disposed, nor haughty. You shall not take evil counsel against your neighbor. You shall not hate any man; but some you shall reprove, and concerning some you shall pray, and some you shall love more than your own life.

[boundless]

Leviticus 18:21

21 You shall not give any of your children to offer them[a] to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.

[kavakava]

Of course you can. Babies and guns are innocent. Murderers and illegal aliens are guilty.

[Hussar]

We can't justify a law that is explicitly about ending the lives of the innocent so abortion is off the table

Firearms can be used for sport and justified self-defense but I'm open to conservation about their availability

A government has a duty to protect its citizen just as much as us individuals have an obligation to help those in need so immigration restrictions are justifiable

[captain_voidwalker]

Yes because a gun is just a tool. No gun in history had ever killed anyone, the person wielding the gun does.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Yes, it’s what’s known psychologically as “cognitive dissonance.”

[Snowman84]

Exactly 👍

American conservatives like having other Americans to shoot at. America pretends to hate foreigners but actually needs them as cheap labour, do you see MAGA picking vegetables 🤣🤣

[AviatorTom]

Those three things are mutually independent, their Venn diagrams don't intersect.

[Massageman]

I love those things (Venns).

[Anonymous]

Of course. They are very different things. Abortion takes a human life, every single time. That is the point, after all.

Guns CAN kill people, but they can also can save lives. The same is true of illegal immigration.

[Dargil]

How are abortion, guns and immigration even connected? Otherwise your question is vacuous.

[Pterodon]

Who says it’s a sin to own guns and want a secure border?

[noohair]

Guns vs. pro-life might seem logical but it is not. To use a gun to protect one’s life is pro-life.

[Anonymous]

Yes. What you CAN'T be is anti abortion and pro death penalty. You can't support the sanctity of life only part time.

[Anonymous]

Christians are always anti abortion pro gun and anti immigration and white supremacists. That's why they're always CONservative.

[Miristheiss]

Yes

Yes and Yes.

[Massageman]

Yes- absolutely.

[FunkyMonkee]

You've never heard of that before?

[blackeagle007]

Let’s not cross religion with MAGA ideas

[Snakeyes7]

Sorry to break it to you pal, but the US was founded on Christian ideals. Most if not all ideals that formed the US Constitution can be traced back to the Bible.

[blackeagle007]

@Snakeyes7 INCLUDING separation of church and state

[Snakeyes7]

Combin

[Snakeyes7]

Combining the two would make the US a theocracy

[blackeagle007]

@Snakeyes7 which we don’t want.

[Snakeyes7]

Correct, which is why the US has never been a theocracy.

[Friendddd]

I dont like religious people