Christians: Why are you against abortion?

[latinabutterfly96]

Even your holy book seems to disagree with you as to when life begins.

The Bible doesn’t talk about abortion, but it does say when a human being’s life begins.

Genesis 2:7 is clearest. The first human became a “living being” (nefesh hayah, “a living breath”) when God blew into its nostrils and it started to breathe. Human life begins when you start breathing, biblical writers thought. It ends when you stop. That’s why the Hebrew word often translated “spirit” (ruah) — “life force” might be a better translation — literally means “wind” or “breath.”

Updates

+1 y

At 12 weeks of pregnancy the left and right lobes of the lungs are starting to grow and branch out with small contractions, not breathing air, but stimulating the chest muscles to develop.

Does that mean that it is okay to abort during the first trimester (before the 12 weeks), according to your bible?

Updates

+1 y

Guys. Most of you aren’t getting the point.

I’m not debating Pro Choice and Pro Lifers here. I’m debating CHRISTIANS who are against abortion. Why? They say it’s because god is against murder but their own book says “until the first breath is taken”, life begins (this doesn’t happen until the second trimester, unlike what some of you have said).

I’m not saying I’m Pro Life and I’m not saying I’m Pro Choice. That isn’t the point of this question.

[normalice]

from what I remember from my christian days, it was basically a proxy attempt at slut shaming. If you force a girl who had sex into a life of despair and squalor with no way out, you essentially force her to live in shame, without doing so to her face.

[latinabutterfly96]

Excellent

[JxrdN]

Because apparently to Christian's a newborn babies life is considered too sacred when god himself has absolutely no issue destroying our entire race "including billions of women and children" just to inflate his ego.

[PinkMichae]

That's the most stupid interpretation. According to the bible human life didn't come from a mothers womb. In the womb the baby has oxygen. Now I don't necessarily believe everything in the bible. However I believe a baby does have a soul at conception. But even if you don't believe that, the facts are 3 weeks after fertilization a baby has a heartbeat and its brain and organs are starting to develop before a woman is a month along. Most women who aren't trying to become pregnant don't find out they are pregnant until after a month along. By nine weeks the baby already has arms, legs, and eyes. And when they abort the baby they do so by chopping it up into pieces and sucking its dismembered arms, legs, torso, and head out of the womb as if it's nothing but an unwanted tumor. I value the miracle of conception more than that. And most unwanted pregnancies happen because people were irresponsible. But hey, why should you have to deal with the consequences to your irresponsible actions when you can just have abortion after abortion. To hell with birth control. You can have as many abortions as you want because it's your body your choice, right?

[latinabutterfly96]

Yeah. Another person who didn’t get the point of my question.

I’m not gonna debate pro lifers or pro choicers. I could, but I won’t. Because I’m asking this to Christians specifically.

[latinabutterfly96]

By the way. The baby can’t breathe on it’s on during the first trimester. That’s a fact.

[PinkMichae]

Just because you want to interpret it that way doesn't mean that's how it was or wasn't. And I use to be Christian so I'm qualified to answer your question you ask attempting to find reasons it's not murder to abort a baby.

[PinkMichae]

"First, the creation of Adam and Eve was a intensely unique situation. Adam was the only human who was ever created with a mature body from the dust of the earth. Eve was equally unique being created from Adam’s rib. Because these verses apply specifically to that unique situaiton, they can’t be applied to unborn children. Second, the Bible describes humans as being alive in the womb before birth, even at the moment of conception."

[PinkMichae]

"For example, Psalm 51:5 describes King David being alive at the moment of conception. In this passage, the Psalmist writes “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.” Further, Matthew 1:20 states, “But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, ‘Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.’” In addition, while it is true that an unborn baby does not breathe in one sense, the process of breathing through the transfer of oxygen from the mother does occur. It is simply a different way to “breathe.”

[PinkMichae]

I think that says everything about your theory.

[laurieluvsit]

Your argument Ms LB illustrates why there are hundreds of religions, each wanting a passage from the bible to mean whatever they want, or hope, for it to mean.
Your meaning is in hopes of the justification of murdering innocent children, others use it just as easily as you did to justify murdering innocent adults. Ever think of that? I didn't think so.
The passage you recite..."And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being" is describing the creation of the first man who was created from the dust of the earth and layed in Gods hand until he breathed "the breath of life" into it. It doesn't even mention oxygen. We assume that's what it was but it could have been anything God wanted it to be.
That was the "first human". after that God no longer had to breath the breath of life into a human. It is silly to think that every time a baby is born that God is just standing there tapping his toes waiting for the baby to be born to suddenly breath into it's nose.
Do you know where a baby gets it's oxygen starting from the day of conception? From it's mother. Guess you didn't know that either
It is amazing to me the propaganda that the marxists have gotten the most gullible among us to believe.
Let me ask you this question Ms LB, which I have yet to get a coherent answer for...
Starting today if every child on earth were aborted, what would be human 200 years from now, since murdering a child in the womb is not murdering a human?
Hello?
This is the baby you want to kill...
I don't think "SHAME ON YOU!" really describes it

[latinabutterfly96]

I’m not talking about the act of aborting.

I’m talking about christian hypocrisy.

Jesus, people really need to read the question AND the category under which it’s placed.

[latinabutterfly96]

Thank you for sharing Ms Lauvie, but your answer is completely irrelevant to my question. Cheers.

[MikeAndMolly]

Religion has no place in discussions of modern morality and law.

It is a ludicrous system upon which to base ethical discussions.

I'm against abortion simply because I think that life forms as a gradient, not in a single moment, and that it becomes steadily more wrong to end it as the fetus progresses through the pregnancy.

I'm also against blanket laws against abortion in all cases because we have no right to force a woman to house and feed a fetus if she doesn't want to.

Not a fan of the way they're killed after becoming viable, though. They should be kept alive if they can be and given to someone who wants them.

[latinabutterfly96]

I’m also against abortion, and I’m also against forcing people to have a baby even if it’s put up for adoption.

I’m not cheering for abortion, I’m supporting the right to choose

[Dim1213]

I hate it cause people use it as an easy way out when they discover their choices are showing to the world and they might have to deal with it.

Also your point is mute that is when the first life began. The new born gets oxygen from the mother's blood. So she is filling it with life force or breath.

I don't out right hate it but I hate so much of it and the facilities that encourage lost women to just end their babies life so they can get money. So in your eyes I'm fully against it cause people are either for some thing or against it these days.

[latinabutterfly96]

At 12 weeks of pregnancy the left and right lobes of the lungs are starting to grow and branch out with small contractions, not breathing air, but stimulating the chest muscles to develop.

Before that, according to your Bible, the embryo is not alive, therefore it is okay to abort in the first trimester.

Applying Christian logic.

[awesometjgreen]

Because they refuse to accept modern science. I'm a Christian but I'm smart enough to recognize the difference between a stillborn and an unborn fetus. I also understand that childbirth isn't this magical thing you see on TV and if you live in the United States childbirth is the most dangerous in our country.

[Jackblue]

When life begins is a matter of philosophy not science. Science can say what a fetus can and cannot do, but how you define a human life is up to individual belief.

[latinabutterfly96]

@Jackblue Really? So if I consider my dead aunt alive, then she’s alive?

Please just don’t post before thinking about what you’re gonna say. This is embarrassing.

[Jackblue]

I did not mean that any individual can decide what life is, Subjectivism is what left wing fanatics are guilty of, I merely mean that it is a matter for individuals to debate, not something science can define.

[latinabutterfly96]

A human life isn’t what science can define?

Okay. So... if science says “time of death 18:45”, you think that the person can still be alive?

[latinabutterfly96]

How about the people who’ve been dead for over 50 years. Is there a chance that they’re alive, according to you? Because science definitely says they’re dead.

[Jackblue]

When doctors say "time of death" they are being philosophical not scientific, that doesn't mean they are wrong, just not scientific. Are you aware that a person being "clinically dead" is not the same as being completely dead? Many people have been revived and lived on after being clinically dead.

[awesometjgreen]

@latinabutterfly9y get him

[latinabutterfly96]

😀😂😂😂

[latinabutterfly96]

@Jackblue Okay. So let’s make God breathe into the nostrils of George Washington’s corpse. Let’s make America great again

[Jackblue]

If God did so that would certainly be nice.

[motownplayer2000]

That’s a reach you have there.. because although, the child isn’t breathing on it’s own in the womb, the babies heart need fresh oxygenated blood to pump through.. where is it getting that oxygen from? The mother... so it’s a very inaccurate assessment. As for abortion itself.. I’m a pro-life, pro choicer.. meaning, in my life, I wouldn’t want my girl to have one. But I will not, judge or guilt anyone else into making that choice.. that is between the individuals and God on that I as an outsider am not supposed to be involved in that decision!

[mlgjamz]

A life is created when the two cells create a new being with it's own unique genetic code, right at conception. Personally I don't understand how people can deny this, just because it is more dependant than a newborn baby doesn't make it less human.
Any abortion past the first half of the first trimester consists of sticking a 18' pair of pliers in the uterus and pulling out miniature body parts one by one, it's disgusting

[latinabutterfly96]

I’m talking about Christians hypocrisy, not the debate of whether life begins at conception or at birth.

[latinabutterfly96]

Hence putting it under the religion section 😝

[mlgjamz]

My bad. In that case, I think it's a stretch to infer that the meaning of that verse was meant that life begins with breath. It was simply imagery used in the Bible

[latinabutterfly96]

How do you know it was imagery and not literal sense?

[latinabutterfly96]

I mean, how do you know that adding imagery was their intention

[mlgjamz]

I don't believe so, but let's just say you're right and it is using breath to convey life.
How do you know that it implys it is the only defining criteria for life? I'm not denying that breathing makes something more life-like, im just saying that it's not a deciding factor

[latinabutterfly96]

“Life begins when you start breathing” - Bible.

How would a Christian argue with her/his holy book?

[mlgjamz]

You're blatantly changing the words from the actual verse. And we don't blindly follow every word written in the Bible

[latinabutterfly96]

I’m not changing the words lol. Look it up yourself. Good luck

[jacquesvol]

The Bible? www.biblegateway.com/.../

[kaewk]

I am strongly against abortion, but I am Muslim 🤷🏻‍♀️

[latinabutterfly96]

I just want to see what a christians point of view would be, since they’re so against abortion yet their Bible says life begins until the first breath

[Jackblue]

You can interpret those words that way if you wish, but I don't believe that that is how they were meant, especially considering the fact that a person can still be alive when they are not breathing. If they are hooked up to a machine they can survive in a hospital for a long time.

[latinabutterfly96]

They are breathing through a ventilator though.

Okay, I can interpret them the way I want but you can also have a different interpretation of it. How does that make mine wrong? I thought genesis was pretty literal (most Christians have said this at least)

[Jackblue]

I think that God breathing into someone's nostrils is about more than the power of breathing as we understand it, it is about life itself, and yes they are getting oxygen through a ventilator and the unborn get it from their mothers.

[Jackblue]

The breath of life I think isn't just oxygen.

[latinabutterfly96]

K. That would require the belief in god. Not something I have, so

[awesometjgreen]

Bruh your not gonna win. You say you respect life? Do you know how many cells you kill everytime you wash your hands or take a shower? How many bugs have you killed? Same thing

[Jackblue]

@awesometjgreen Those things will never grow into a human.

[awesometjgreen]

Yeah maybe not a human that can possibly kill it's host or a human with birth defects or issues. Look I probably would be against abortion if we had a better foster system, Medicare for all, or improved technology; but the simple fact is that children born to parents that don't want them or can't take care of them have more issues. I'm not saying they're as good as dead but it's just not worth it especially if the mom is at medical risk of death.

[Jackblue]

@awesometjgreen Do you honestly believe that some of your ancestors did not have it worse than children do in the foster system today? Even neglected children are lucky to live in this day and age when disease is not such a problem and even the poor have access to so many things.

[awesometjgreen]

Really? Because last time I checked half the country can't afford a basic need and wages have been stagnant since the 80s. And so what it if it was worse back in the day? We aren't cavemen, we live in modern society and it makes no sense to possibly subject someone to a horrible life because your, "pro life" If you were pro life you would recognize that it's not as simple as it looks and being responsible for someone else's life is difficult

[Jackblue]

@awesometjgreen What I am saying is that many people have had hard lives, but that is not an excuse to take away those lives. I am currently living in China in an apartment with holes in the walls and ceiling and a bed as hard as a rock, but I don't want anyone to put me out of my misery.

[awesometjgreen]

Well an unborn fetus has no thoughts or choice on the decision. Just like children have no say in the parents decision and that's written in the Bible

[MidnightCowboy]

They think that they can control women

How about we kick out the Christians and send them to the Middle East? They would get along with the Muslims very well with their sexist views

[latinabutterfly96]

Yes! Let’s do it!

[Anonymous]

We hate abortion because you are killing a innocent baby which could've had a chance to live. We were brought into this world as a test if you are a believer than you will live in paradise forever on the other hand if your not you will burn forever it's your choice.

Also why would we like abortion if it was your choice to have unprotected sex if you were gonna have sex the first thing you should think about is protection but if the condom breaks it's still your fault. If you knew you weren't ready for a baby then why think about sex...

[latinabutterfly96]

Okay, so you disagree with your Bible?

[Opinion Owner]

No I dont diasgree because when a baby is in your stomach it is breathing as well as you so...

[latinabutterfly96]

The baby does not breathe on its own. The umbilical cord provides a baby with oxygen-rich blood in the womb. The mother also breathes out for the baby.

[Opinion Owner]

Thanks exactly it is still breathing though even though your helping it breathe

[latinabutterfly96]

Breathing is something you do on your own. The baby does not breathe whilst inside the womb

[Opinion Owner]

Every living thing is alive and breathes even plants breathe search it up so it is still breathing even though your helping it breathe and breathing isn't something you do on your own if you ever saw someone in a ambulance car and needs the oxygen mask they are not breathing on their own but they are still alive see where I'm coming from

[latinabutterfly96]

Yes. But a zygote isn’t a living thing. To be a living thing he would have to have all the characteristics of life and it doesn’t.

Plants breathe yet you snatch them off your garden! Are you a murderer, then?

[abc3643]

The truth is, no one knows when "life begins" because no one can actually adequately define life. That may sound crazy, but it's true.

[latinabutterfly96]

Are you a Christian?

[abc3643]

What is a Christian?

Even Christians don't know what a Christian is.

As any fundamentalist Christian if a Mormon is a Christian. Then ask a Mormon if s/he thinks a Mormon is a Christian.

And what about Jehovah's Witnesses?
You know, false religions are one of the Devil's tools.

And 7th Day Adventists? All the other "Christians" aren't Christians because they're fucked in the head by having the Sabbath on Sunday when no where in the Bible did it say that the Sabbath Day changed from Saturday to Sunday. Christians - true Christians, that is - worship on Saturday.

Meanwhile, gotta love those homosexual Catholic priests preaching homosexuality is sinful and then, 3 hours later, giving a blow job to the altar boys.

When the Christians get their shit together, I'll respect them more.

Back to "life", I'd recommend reading Chapter 5 "Life" of "13 Things That Don't Make Sense".
Here is a link to a free copy of the book:
philllfixit.com.au/13ThingsThatDontMakeSense.pdf

[latinabutterfly96]

Let me rephrase that.

Do you believe in the abrahamic bible?

[latinabutterfly96]

(As in, do you believe what it says?)

[abc3643]

Of course not. It contains logical contradictions, therefore I can't.

[latinabutterfly96]

I want to see what a Christian says (one who believes in the Bible)

[abc3643]

How can one even believe in The Bible when there isn't even agreement on what's in The Bible? What Bible? I don't see Jesus's name on the copyright page.

For instance, ever read Psalm 151?

You won't find it in the KJV.

You need another Bible like the OAB.
* grabs my trusty OAB - "New Revised Standard Version - The New Oxford Annotated Bible with the Apocrypha" *
Oh, what about the Wisdom of Solomon or the 4 Books of Maccabees?

So, MY Bible (the OAB) has these... Does your Bible? What about the Book of Mormon? Which Bible is the REAL Bible?

When Jesus lets us know which Bible is the _real_ Bible, then I will be happy to discuss it as if it really were the Word of God.

[abc3643]

Apparently "The Mormons were the correct answer."

www.hulu.com/embed.html

[jacquesvol]

The Bible: www.biblegateway.com/.../

[Trollfather]

Christianity was corrupted by the GLOBALIST CABAL.

It is not the same thing as spirituality.

Look up David Icke. He explains it best.

It really depends on how you define life. If it's just a cluster of cells to you, we have a problem. We have people aborting 9 month old fetuses...

[HeyThere94]

Christians never read the bible, they are hypocrites

[AynonOMouse]

I'm Christian and I'm not against abortion as long as the father has equal rights/say in what happens.

[latinabutterfly96]

I see. But can you tell me what would happen if the father doesn’t want the baby and the mother does? Can you also tell me what would happen if it’s the other way around? What’s your solution to that?

[AynonOMouse]

If one doesn't want it and the other does then the one that doesn't want it gets to sign over all of their parental rights and responsibilities. They still give birth and the one that wanted it has to pay for the medical bills of giving birth.
No child support from the one that didn't want it, but they also don't get to change their mind later and have no visitation rights.

And in the case where both want it but they aren't a couple anymore it should automatically be equal custody/time with the kid, alternating weeks with them.

[latinabutterfly96]

Good thinking. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

www.biblegateway.com/.../

[latinabutterfly96]

And your point is?

[Opinion Owner]

Just read the Bible.

[latinabutterfly96]

I have. And it’s full of idiocy. 😘

[Anonymous]

Pro life Christians, are anti woman

Pro life anyone, is anti woman

[BigRob420]

Everyone one is against abortion. Even a doctor will tell you it's bad to use as birth control. That being said it may be the right choice for you. As a man I believe it's not my decision.

[latinabutterfly96]

No not everyone is.

Doctors many times SUGGEST abortion, or tell you that it is a safe option.

Where the hell do you live? LOL

[Deathraider]

Where did you get that from?

[BigRob420]

You're right surgery is way simpler than taking a pill. Why don't you campaign to take away birth control so everyone has abortions? You could ban condoms too. That way it's common place for women to have 6 abortions per year. You know if you abort enough babies you can make smoothies out of them. Just cram a couple in a blender and bam salsa. You're right, I love abortion now.

[latinabutterfly96]

@BigRob420 Yeah you’re clueless

[BigRob420]

Yea so is a doctor that says abortion is better than birth control. So what do you find to be pleasant about abortion that you would recommend it as a good time? Or would you say do it if you need to it's unpleasant but may be the right choice.

[latinabutterfly96]

You think you know better than a doctor? Ah. Because you’re such a genius, right?

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

God created Adam and Eve as a grown up adults, therefore it can't be compared to babies in the womb.

When conception happens a living spirit comes within the woman's womb therefore abortion is wrong.

[latinabutterfly96]

K. But then it says that human life begins after the first breath. It doesn’t specify that it only happens to the first human (supposedly Adam)

A living spirit? It’s a physical cell. Not a spirit

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Its a spirit. All humans have a living spirit within them. Once that spirit leaves the body, the body dies.

[latinabutterfly96]

That still doesn’t change what the Bible says now does it. It says human life BEGINS when we take our first breath. HUMAN life, not spirit life. The first breath doesn’t take place until the second trimester.

How do you argue with your holy book?

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

The mother is alive and breathing while pregant right?

The child is in her, therefore the child is alive if its forming and growing at conception.

[latinabutterfly96]

There’s a difference between absorbing oxygen and breathing.

Breathing only happens after the 12 weeks. Before the 12 weeks, the baby / zygote hasn’t yet developed lungs to breathe. Therefore, according to *your* Bible, the baby is not seen as alive before the second trimester

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Were you Christian? Just curious.

[latinabutterfly96]

I was.
Can you now reply to what I just said? :)

[latinabutterfly96]

(When I said I was, it means I was a Christian when I was 7 years old. But I don’t think that counts because I wasn’t fully aware of my beliefs, so I guess I never was- technically)

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

I stand by what I said, lets just agree to disagree.

[latinabutterfly96]

You didn’t even read what I said, and you don’t have a counter argument.

That’s basically what you’re saying.

Good day. ;)

[Bananaman177]

You're not supposed to murder anybody, whether they're a baby in the womb or a hundred years old.

[latinabutterfly96]

If you’re a Christian, why then would you be against abortion if the Bible says that life begins at birth?

[Bananaman177]

Because I actually saw a tape of an abortion and it was probably the most disturbing thing I've ever witnessed and I've seen some fucking heinous shit, like ISIS burning people alive, decapitations, gruesome murders of all kinds.

All that shit just pales in comparison to seeing a little baby being ripped limb from limb as it squirms and throws it's head back in agony.

Quite frankly, it makes me want to become violent towards people who want to do that. I think people who want to murder babies should be fucking killed with a rock. And if that's a sin, I'll just have to pray for forgiveness, because holy fucking shit... How evil can somebody be?

[latinabutterfly96]

My point has more to do with Christian hypocrisy than abortion.

Also, I’m disturbed when seeing a hysterectomy, a c-section and a heart transplant because it has a lot of blood in it. That doesn’t mean I have to be against those things. Also.. A baby is not the same as a zygote.

[Bananaman177]

Well there is that one quote from the Bible, as long as we're cherry-picking this and that bit out of context to suit our purposes, about how God knew you even before you were formed in the womb, that He even knows the number of hairs on your head, and that's the least significant thing about you, that He created the whole world and set everything up just for us, and that he's not willing that any should perish. . .

I don't think I see your argument that there is hypocrisy in the Christian opinion.

Furthermore, I really don't think my visceral, gut-wrenching reaction to abortion necessarily comes from my Christian faith or education, I'm really pretty sure it's just instinctual.

And the difference between an abortion and other surgical procedures is quite literally the difference between trying to save life and trying to destroy it, how you can possibly conflate them, or expect others to conflate them, is beyond me. Stabbing and ripping and crushing isn't surgery.

[Bananaman177]

And before you say that abortions save lives, show me one single case anywhere in the medical literature anywhere at any time in the whole world where that is the case.

That is a very common myth that I hear touted by the pro-choice side, that abortions are performed in emergency situations to save the mother during a complication in pregnancy, and that is a disgusting lie, and as an RN myself, it makes me livid to hear it. There's no such thing as any complication in any pregnancy that requires killing the fetus to treat it.

Killing the fetus is not beneficial or therapeutic to the mother in any way in any circumstance ever recorded, and I will ask you to provide a case for an example before you try to make such an argument.

[Deathraider]

"Quite frankly, it makes me want to become violent towards people who want to do that. I think people who want to murder babies should be fucking killed with a rock."
...
ummm...

An eye for an eye? That's what you think is right?

[Bananaman177]

@Deathraider I said it makes me want to become violent.

The point being that it causes me, a non-violent person, to become so enraged that I do feel the urge to become completely animalistic in response to what I see as completely beyond barbarism.

I mean look at this:

qph.fs.quoracdn.net/...ab50350601cd7302d7e70d.webp

Doesn't that elicit any emotional reaction in you, seeing something like that, imagine seeing it for real, how do you think you would react if you saw someone walk up to a mother with a stroller and jam his bayonet right through her baby's heart? Like at the mall, let's say.

How would you react? Be honest, think about it.

[MidnightCowboy]

But Christians murder kids by faith healing

[latinabutterfly96]

@MidnightCowboy 😂😂😂👌🏻

[Deathraider]

Ummm... I can't open it.

Yeah, but don't you kind of see the hypocrisy that you're stating right now?

[latinabutterfly96]

@Deathraider Exactly 😂

[Bananaman177]

@Deathraider No, I don't think it's hypocritical because I can differentiate between causing harm and having an urge to cause harm.

That picture is an old black and white photo of Imperial Japanese troops in WW2 throwing Chinese babies up in the air and catching them on their bayonets.

And you didn't answer my question. How do you react when somebody commits murder right in front of you? Murder of a child or of anybody, really. What do you think is a normal reaction to seeing something like that?

If you have no reaction and no emotional connection at all, you're what's called a psychopath.

[latinabutterfly96]

@Bananaman177 Having the urge to harm is already problematic in itself. A “neurotypical” person doesn’t have urges to harm.