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Why do people keep trying to normalize abortion like it’s not murder? (Page 2)
Anonymous
(18-24) 
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I like the Republican version of abortion… safe legal and rare. Some abortions need to happen. But I know women that have abortions like contraception and they need to be either sterilized or made to pay a hefty fine. Tax payer covered abortions fine if your limited to one single abortion without special circumstances like rape. But at this point abortions been given as an option and look what happened. Have an inch and they took a mile as they say so fuck it. Make it illegal and hold people accountable. Men HAVE to pay child support without a choice in the abortion so take away the choice.
Hi my friend! No animosity this time, just dropping this in there about the tax payer thing. You can see where that money actually goes from the government and how much PP actually gets from medicaid payments.
www.npr.org/.../fact-check-how-does-planned-parenthood-spend-that-government-money
Yes but pp gets special subsidies from the government and we all know it’s tax payer covered and we also know a majority of what pp does.
Also do you really think the government honestly spends $140 per bolt? They use that to cover up spending.
Just dropping this section specifically
Title X does not allow federal funds to be used for abortions. Medicaid, however, does allow government money to be spent on them — in very restricted cases.
The 1977 Hyde Amendment dictated that federal Medicaid funds could only be used to fund abortions in cases of rape, incest or to protect the life of the mother. However, some states have expanded cases in which they will provide funds. Currently, 17 states allow funds to be used for "medically necessary" abortions. In those cases that these states count as medically necessary but that are not permitted by the federal guidelines, states cover the cost alone.
Yep, a majority of what they do are things like sti/std checks and contraceptive distribution. They also assist with hormones for transgender patients and provide women's services. Very little of their day to day work is abortions.
Question. If a person has $500 needs to pay their $500 rent but then you offer to help their burden and give them $500 on the condition they don’t drink alcohol with YOUR $500… couldn’t they spend YOUR $500 on the rent and theirs on the alcohol? That’s like the big deal with tiktok. They can share your personal info with parent companies but not direct with the cap. But if they share with the parent company the parent company can share with the company… your arguing semantics at this point.
Eh bad example, the complaint is tax payer money and it isn't being used on that. What they do with their own money is up to them.
Let's do this another way. If you buy something off Amazon and then Jeff Bezos hires an entire yacht full of sex workers and snorts a years worth of coke off their tits, does that make you morally responsible for buying a slow cooker?
Of course not.
Your federal tax dollars are not going to abortions. They are going to things like handing out condoms and making sure people don't have std's because the last thing we need is another pandemic of some sort of super dick rotting std.
PP also just happens to do abortions off private donations.
I don't know I think we could use a super dick rotting std right now… neither you nor I have any skin in that game and maybe these women will stop being promiscuous sluts and make better choices…
Lmao I dont think its going to stop women if it is just rotting dicks
Might scare the hell out of a bunch of guys though, maybe they'd stop being promiscuous sluts too 😉
Well most women are screwing a minority of men so either way I’m good. Ide prefer it if it did only effect men.
Quick search says 70% of men between 25-44 have been married. That seems like a super majority to me.
Damnit bri always coming in here fucking up my mood with your FACTS! Lol jk.
But that only means 70% of men get married between them ages. It don’t show rates of sex outside marriage, number of partners, or the rates of women married. I bet it’s higher then 70%.
71% men 79% women I win lmao. Besides this it includes previous generations. If you look at the younger dating market it’s total shut and way different.
Lmao oh my God I'm dying over here on that comment. I can't stop laughing
Yeah it means that a lot of guys are getting laid and then 70% of guys stop getting laid once they get married 😆
79% of women doesn't mean more women, it could also mean we are more likely to marry same sex or it means there are less of us than men which makes our numbers higher 😉
I'm tired of hearing you and the likes of you talking as if you are the holy grail of advise. Abortion is a personal thing and is for each individual to make these choice, not for some babbling snot like yourself trying to mandate your personal position. Learn to mind your own fucking business and not stick your nose in everyone elses.
@katiesmuff Yes, thank you
Personal or not it is murder. You can't force us to like or approve of murder.
It is killing a person but at the same time if you force a woman to have a child she doesn't want you will end up having more babies dumped or killed by a mother that isn't ready to have a baby.
Of course this isn't always hiw it ends up but we have pushed birth control everyone knows what it is and should use it but you can't depend on them doing it
It should be the choice of that individual whether or not they want it. If you have a young girl say age 14 who gets pregnant and is terrified to tell her parents she should have the option to eliminate the pregnancy as sad as that is.
Everyone has different opinions and that's just the way it is.
And that's why there should be no sex before marriage...
Sex comes after marriage! Or if they want to make sex before marriage they must take full safety measures and be ready for anything wrong!
In my opinion if a woman is married she have no right to decide about the baby inside of her without her husband, the final say is for her husband, still abortion is a crime if it's not done for harsh reasons!
If the woman got pregnant and she wasn't married than her boyfriend will have a say which will be taken into consideration but the final say is for the woman...
If the girl got pregnant from a rape than the decision is fully her's...
The final say is not the husband it should be a mutual decision but if your married most wouldn't be having an abortion.
It's mutual right but the final decision is for the man cause the man is the head of the house, the man leads and the wife follows...
I agree with you that if the couple are married than there won't be any abortions cause it's a gift from god and the baby is the seed of love between a man and his wife!
Instead of abortion, there will be a celebration, the close people to us will be invited to share our happiness, also the husband will enjoy kissing the womb of his wife where his baby is being created and the wife will enjoy her pregnancy safe and warm inside her house and her husband will buy all the necessary supplements and vitamins and will take good care of his wife who loves him more than anything in this world!
Man is head of the house? Um I'm sorry but that is something that was true from the 60's and back. The man is NEVER to be the one making that decision on his own its both man and woman's decision.
For you it works likes that but for me it doesn't...
That's why we all have our own opinions.
Because it's obviously not murder and the only reason people like think it's murder is because you haven't thought about it enough yet. Our society has a massive, massive problem with people being bad at abstract thinking.
Think about what abortion does. It ends the life of an organism that thinks much more like an animal than a human. All the primary reasons why murder is typically illegal do not apply to abortion. Murder is illegal because it harms humans in the ways only our complex thought process... and maybe the thought process of a few other higher animals... can be harmed. Self-aware humans are capable of planning for the future. Murder steals our ability to complete those goals. Self-aware humans miss their peers when they die. Murder steals away our peers. Self-aware humans can fear death or the loss of our ability to influence society. Legalizing murder would mean society falling into chaos due to that fear.
is it murder to have sex with a condom too then? or masturbate? or just not get pregnant and have a baby every time you could have? jeez. With your logic not letting a sperm be born into a person is murder too...
it's better to have an abortion than a baby you don't want or can't care for for whatever reason. us women have the right to decide what happens to our bodies, abortion should be a last resort and i don't think anyone would chose to do it if they could avoid it so stop judging. you don't know what they've been to and they are definitely not murderers.
I hope anyone who reads this and needs an abortion knows better. You're not murderers you are making the best decision you could in that situation, don't listen to crazy freaks it's hard enough as it is but you are making the RIGHT decision and you're still a good person <3
Really dumb take. Sperm isn't a baby. It hasn't even entered a vagina yet
@Darksign what you abort isn't yet a baby either...
Yes it is. Once you are pregnant that's it
@Darksign it is not a baby. at first it's just a cell. When you make an abortion it is not a baby, it's something that in no way can survive on it's own. When it gets to the point it could have survived abortion is no longer an option. stop being an idiot.
I think it is the pharma/doctors creating business for themselves - you take the pill, have unprotected sex, it is abortion from the moment you conceive. Then there are the manually performed abortions, surgeries.
That, in turn, makes you need a therapist, plus you get STDs and alike along the way, so you become a major customer/account/source of money for them.
If we all lived healthy lives, they'd be earning a whole lot less (the average ones anyhow)
It's like lawyers enticing divorces - their fees are huge and based on you working against yourself most of the time.
I think you’re not alone in you’re feelings. I think the left is leaving a lot of people behind. They’ve just gotten to extreme in their views.
In regards to abortion, I fully agree. There’s nothing normal about it. I think most people have seen the pictures of tiny hands and feet that were the remnants of an abortion or are aware based on studies those fetuses feel pain. How anyone can justify that for the sake of women’s rights or any other reason is beyond me. Even worse is the partial birth abortion. Killing a baby as it is partially being born is infanticide and an abomination and clearly shows the hard heartedness of those willing to defend such a pratice.
Abortion, typically, protects the aborted. When I say that people respond with horror... but that's because they're not skilled at thinking abstractly. Abortion functions as a miracle cure to any otherwise incurable disease. It ends the life of an organism that doesn't care whether it exists or not, sometimes, to prevent a human from coming into existence with sickle cell anemia or other incurable ailments. The only negative a fetus seems capable of experiencing from death is possibly physical pain... and I have not seen credible sources that say fetuses might be able to experience pain before 12 weeks... by which time about 90% of abortions have occurred.
That's keeping in mind, without experiencing pain from it, a fetus loses nothing from its death. If they're born to a parent who doesn't want kids though, they lose something. Therefore, most of the time, abortion appears to help children... and even when pain is a possibility... oftentimes birth defects aren't detected into 18 weeks or so when an ultrasound occurs.
The way I see it... I'm being "hard-hearted" in the same way a surgeon performing a brain surgery can be "hard-hearted" whereas you're being soft-hearted in the same way someone might object to a blood transfusion for religious reasons. That is to say... there are philosophical, logical forms of empathy, and emotional, instinctive forms of empathy. In this case, I'm thinking my philosophical, logical form of empathy is actually more empathetic than your emotional, instinctive form of empathy.
So... not only will I defend abortion. I'll actually encourage with the woman doesn't want a child and she's less than about 12 weeks into the first trimester. That's seems better in every way than just having the child to give it up for adoption. I think having a child just to give it up for adoption, unless the person specifically got pregnant to do that, is the primary thing we should focus on discouraging.
Although you do make a far more rational and logical argument than most proponents of abortion I simply cannot agree.
Human life is precious and should be protected from an unjust ending of it. Abortion is barbaric and morally wrong as far as I’m concerned.
You guys have no idea what u all r talking about. U are not the ones carrying the 👶 .
A woman can decide my body my choice!
So you simply "cannot agree." If you want to live in your illusionary bubble, ignoring reality, fine. We all do that, to some degree. We all invent our fictions worlds in which only our friends, and families and ourselves matter... and that's why we care deeply about our dogs while ignoring the plight of starving African children. That's just human nature, I think... to build our painted blue skies beneath which we live... but you have no right to determine that other people live within your bubble too. You have no right to insist that other people adhere to your fictional views of reality. They'll have their own.
@Pinkmatters I agree completely. However... you can't really argue any points that way. When I delve into abortion in logical ways... I think I can make other forms of arguments too. I think your simply stating "my body, my choice," works just fine... but society gets tons of that already. I'm trying something new.
You do realize that the people that get abortions are generally
- a raped girl
- or a college student that cannot afford having a child
- or a case of incest that will result in deformities (even worse and more expensive to take care of).
A fetus is a human undeveloped baby.
Getting an abortion should be legal everywhere in the world.
this right here
It's definitely killing someone. When do you draw the line where it's considered killing someone or not? Pretty stupid that people set a time frame for when it's all of a sudden considered killing something. Those kinds of people lack morals and emotional intelligence
So I’m very pro life… but I wasn’t always. Until I basically started trying to pin down when it became a life. And the only definitive event that I saw a way to clearly litigate was conception due to the now baby having its own unique dna. I would dissuade posts like this where u r misconstruing the other sides argument… stop using talking points and just have a genuine conversation where u assume that the other person doesn’t have I’ll will and try to figure it out together. U might get to a point where u disagree and that is fine but u will have a much better understanding of that person and argument.
I always see the excuse of “what if she was raped?” … listen… there’s clearly plan B to prevent that pregnancy from happening. Contact your doctor, they can help. It’s honestly not that hard. Especially if YOU KNOW that you don’t want a kid from someone who raped you. You wouldn’t hesitate. This is coming from someone with experience..
it's not always that cut and dry. what if she's like 15 and is to ashamed to tell anyone because it was her uncle or father or something creepy like that. that shit happens. how do you protect the underage then? or someone who doesn't really have access to a doctor soon enough? I don't necessarily believe in abortion but you have to accept that there are extraneous circumstances...
@whosnumber1 these instances make up less than 1% of abortions... so what about the rest of them?
Yeah 5 day pill
So asker you are the anti-abortion liberal and I am your antithesis by being a pro-choice conservative
Why am I pro-choice because look at my field of fucks and see forthwith doth it be barren
I've had relationships and took a very simple line of if I got my partner pregnant then I would be happy to be a father but truthfully it was my partners choice, I don't know if they were on birth control but I assume they must be given as far as I know I'm not a father and I think that would have at least come up in conversation at some point, for all I know I might be firing blanks
It isn't murder any more than refusing to donate your organs to a stranger who will die without them is murder. No one has the right to use someone else's body for their survival. I don't know why religious people have carved out an exception for pregnant women, but I would guess it has to do with getting mad about sex.
If I don't donate my organ that doesn't mean I cut iff your body parts
Correct. So if a girl doesn't donate her ovaries that doesn't mean she cut out the fetus's heart or whatever.
Not donating means using protection.
She can prevent pregnancy by using protection but abortion terminates n9t prevents pregnancy by DELIBERATELY killing the fetus.
That is one way to not donate. But there also simply making the choice to stop doing so.
However, by talking about protection, it seems you are mad at the sex, as I guessed in my original answer. You could have simply upvoted if you were just going to agree anyway.
My issue is with murder. When the fetus is killed DELIBERATELY.
If one life depends on another and the other life refuses to donate itself to the first's survival, that simply isn't how we define murder. If you want to carve out an exception for pregnant women then you need to be honest with yourself about why you are motivated to do so. Only through being honest with yourself is consistency possible. Be it a reckless teenager or rape victim, neither is required to donate their organs to sustain someone else's life.
If I cutt off your body parts would this be the same as refusing to donate my blood to you?
If I had sunk those parts of my body into your body to take your blood, yes.
So that would not mean refusing to donate
Of course it would.
You can just say you're mad at girls for having sex. I already know anyway.
When did I say that? Quote me or stop speaking for me.
How would mean that?
If I kill someone when he is in coma by cutting his throat would this be equal to not donating my organ to him?
I'm saying you haven't said that, but you should because it is clearly your motivation. If protection of life was the real concern then pro lifers would be at the forefront of universal healthcare, pre-k, public education funding, maternity leave, and so on. Instead they are usually the ones leading the charge against such things. So, the preservation of life is not your true motive.
So I should support what I consider murder?
I am against abortion because it's mirder. No other reason.
But you only consider it murder because you want to. If I somehow convinced you it was not murder you would still be opposed to abortions because that's not your real motive.
Why would I want?
It hurts me to know so many women kill their babies.
But you can choose to stop believing it is murder at any time (it's not like there is any evidence anyway). You just don't want to.
Again, if protection of life was the goal then eliminating the causes of abortion would be a far more effective course of action. But pro lifers are usually more inclined to be against that sort of thing, so that can't really be the goal..
Sure I can delude myself into thinking it's not murder because thinking it's murder is painful. But I'm not a delusional person.
But you let others delude you into thinking it was murder in the first place. Now, instead of doing the thing that would most help to stop it (eliminating poverty), you let them further delude you into helping increase poverty which will only result in a higher demand for abortions.
Who they?
I have my own brain and I view it murder as it is.
So with your own brain have you figured out why eliminating poverty, which would pretty much eliminate abortions, is not your priority?
I am for all the harmless solutions that reduce the number of abortions
Then where is your focus on those?
What can I do?
It is a long road but for starters stop supporting those pro life groups and political parties that also actively oppose a robust social safety net.
I don't support any social activist group.
@marish01 then maybe give it a start? There are lots of groups that strive for a strong social safety net. And if you're not sold on the idea of it working consider the baby boom generation. This was brought on by FDR's post-war policies of taxing the rich at 90% and using it to really get the economy churning by paying people to do stuff for the sake of getting it done - not just for the sake of profit. And as a result of all that financial security we saw the largest spike in births since probably in the history of the world.
When people can afford to raise children they don't get abortions.
There was an example a while ago of the following.
If someone dropped a petri dish with a fertilized egg / embryo in it, and a child and you can only save one from hitting the pavement, which one would you save and why.
Everyone said the baby because it's a baby.
There are procedures around abortion and up to how many weeks until the embryo is then considered a living human.
I wouldn't say abortion has been normalized, there is more literature, research and knowledge around it. Region is also not as popular as it once was, which is where many negative voices have come in the past on abortion.
I do not feel abortion is taken lightly by anyone. There is potential for long term health effects on the mother, as well as the mental trauma of going through it.
People have their reasons for abortion and it is not our place to judge them for it, but to support them during and after.
"I do not feel abortion is taken lightly by anyone." "... as well as the mental trauma of going through it."
If its not a baby it should be taken lightly. I dont think long and hard about getting my blood tested and a yearly check up. Why would someone have mental trauma over essentially a wart removal? Does not compute.
Depending on the way the abortion is performed, it can require surgery which has additional risks.
The medicine used creates a miscarriage, which if you have seen anyone going through a miscarriage, it is not a great experience.
The reason for the abortion could be from a traumatic experience. It may be as needed due to the woman's life being at risk.
It's not comparable to having a wart removed, or a blood test for an annual check up.
So having a broken arm is traumatic... it takes literally no thought to go to a doctor to have it set. Why is a clump of cells more difficult than legit bone sticking out of your arm?
Very true, you make a valid point regarding a bone break.
If someone is told the have to have an abortion due to their health and they are wanting to have a baby, there would be some psychological effects from that.
As well as society often views a broken bone as a badge of honor; whereas an abortion is taboo.
In the end though I'm lucky enough never to go through it personally with not having the right equipment, so it's just my opinion vs other opinions.
You have a good argument and good hearing a different perspective @bamesjond0069
Because sometimes you've to think outside your morals. Sometimes you need to break out your conscience and see what's good for you. A lot of people due to teen pregnancy suffer with making ends meet, due to children are forced to work outside their passion. That's like a lifelong sentence. Why would you do it to yourself? You think this self sacrifice won't lead to self hatred overall transferring into child neglect or abuse? Cuz sis, I got new for you.
You know, the really strange thing about this whole debate is that the people who argue that "it's just a clump of cells" also tend to be the same people who believe that life in general has no meaning, purpose, design or overall point, and that it's ultimately nothing more substantial than complex chemistry and electricity, the physical "stuff" of which it's made, so from that perspective aren't we all "just a clump of cells"?
You mean the retarted animals who have no brains at all would claim such things...
Life is priceless and when you get pregnant it's a gift from god to the married couple and that's why when a woman gets pregnant her husband makes a celebration and everyone is happy 😌
We are all just a clump of cell but this clump of cell have something called sentient but the clump of cell in the belly doesn't have sentient , just like microbes doesn't have it.
There's bodily autonomy, there's the fact that no it's not alive, there's bodily autonomy, there's the already rampant overpopulation and poor livelihoods of actual living children, there's bodily autonomy, there's the fact that about 700 women die yearly from childbirth alone not to mention any other health complications wanted pregnancy or not, and did I mention fucking bodily autonomy.
Get a life instead of trying to dictate others
I don't see why a redundant medical procedure should be a right.
Most women who abort babies aren't at risk of dying nor were they raped... try again
Of course it's alive. Wtf
Calm down it’s NOT your body. Everyone has a reason why they choose to do certain things in life. You do not know those ppls circumstances relax and just make sure you do what’s right for you if you get pregnant.
How about you calm down, weirdo & read the question. I honestly do not care about what you females want to do, the fact remains. Society is downplaying it, for what it is, we are down playing it like it’s not murder when that’s literally what it is.
You’re the weirdo—upset about what someone else chooses to do with their body. That is not murder it’s called an abortion. You’re mom should have aborted you moron
*your
Why would abortion not be bad or an insinuation do murder- if you’re using it as a threat? You are so stupid and if you’re a tax payer and certain laws are being passed, it is your right to be concerned on what bullshit is being passed. Abortion is a cute litte term to help mentally fragile females not feel bad for KILLING their children.
**of
By the way, you are going to have really bad karma coming to you. Really shouldn’t have said that.
The asker loves cultural war talking points but not the real issues
Sweetheart wishing bad karma on someone is only asking for it yourself. Be carful how you use your words, have a good one.
The funny thing with the whole issue is that if it were men who largely supported abortion and even mandated it as a right or law, I think women would still complain and still find it threatening or intrusive.
In pro-choice women's minds, abortion is good for women if having a baby is inconvenient for them, but if a man wants a woman to get an abortion then it means he's an asshole who cares only about himself and not wanting to be responsible.
What if she was raped? Women need autonomy over their bodies. I don't want anyone giving me orders about what happens inside my body based on their morality. Men and women are different biologically. If you want kids to be born to rapists and incesters or under coercion, I can't help you. How many living organisms did you murder just today when you brushed your teeth? How many animals did you murder for your lunch?