In your opinion, does America need new laws with more severe consequences against filing false allegations in many areas particularly rape?

[VanillaSalt]

Does the risk or even just the fear of false allegations require additional laws to help punish and deter both men and women making them?

Yes

No

Other

[MuddyMole]

It wouldn't help. Not being able to prove that someone is guilty, is completely different from being able to prove that they innocent - especially when it comes to rape. Unless the accuser admits that they lied, it's virtually impossible to prove either way (the accused will say it was consensual; the accuser will say it wasn't) - and they're not going to do that if they face harsher legal penalties.

It's better to encourage the person making false accusations to come clean, because then at least the accused gets to clear their name (think how many celebrities have the label of "alleged rapist" or "alleged paedophile" or whatever hanging over them, even when they've never been convicted), and it avoids wasting everyone's time and money on a lengthy trial with lawyers etc.

[Screamsgutter]

Yeah, if she comes out and admits to making it up, if texts are found that discussed/detailed/retold the plaintiffs story or

[Screamsgutter]

Shit, hit the submit button.

Anyhoo... the plaintiffs story or distort facts, or video/camera footage can be produced showcasing a totally different tale, witnesses (in a few cases, friends of the plaintiff couldn't simply stand by and came forward for the defendant, in another case a student recorded another student admitting she made it up to two other students, another case the accuser confessed to a priest what happened. He went to the authorities - faith renewed, and not just 'cuz of the priest).

[GlassTop]

Rape is a tough subject. I think it should be separated into different categories like murder. One of extreme crime like molesting children or snatching someone in the street. The other involving drug use and lack of common sense decisions like getting drunk at a party. Lastly, the regretful rape where they made a bad decision with the wrong person or couldn’t muster the strength to say no for some reason. Then just change the punishments for each. That way the true criminals get maximum time, and the others won’t completely get their life ruined because the other party wasn’t responsible. That’s just my opinion.

[VanillaSalt]

“Regretful rape” I take offense to this phrase… that’s you regret being a how rape had no god damn part of it and no consequences should come with it from the law…

[GlassTop]

Call it third degree or whatever you want. It would be a lesser offense. Don’t give the word so much power over you.

[VanillaSalt]

Words have meaning and power… you can’t call regretting sex rape that’s unacceptable.

[GlassTop]

Rape lost its power though. Nowadays everyone is raped, and most of the accusations are lies.

[VanillaSalt]

You know the context of this conversation. Don’t play semantics games with me.

[GlassTop]

“ In your opinion, does America need new laws with more severe consequences against filing false allegations in many areas particularly rape?”

That’s the context. I gave my opinion. Rape should have different degrees like murder. You want rape to remain the same but have harsher punishments for false accusations. That won’t work.

[VanillaSalt]

Yes but your defining regretting drunk sex you consented to the day before as rape… that’s stupid and dangerous.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

This is a really tough one because it disincentives those who actually are victims from coming forward outs of fear they may be unable to prove their case, especially male victims of rape.

On the other hand, it can ruin a person's life to be falsely accused.

I'm going to say no, strictly based on my first reason but I do agree that people who falsely accuse are sick.

[VanillaSalt]

The accusation alone is enough to change a man’s life…

https://youtu.be/1TzTCWfiRew

1 year in jail but man lost his scholarship…

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Men are not the only perpetrators nor are women the only victims.

I only pick my answer to protect actual victims of rape from being double victimized really.

[VanillaSalt]

False accusations already is a form of double victimization. Every false claim takes away from the real rape victims.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I'm still not prepared to reward actual perpetrators by seeing actual victims go to jail just because a system set up to doubt them in the first place were unable to prove their case

[lrina]

false rape accusations are such a problem nowadays. there should definitely be a much higher penalty.

[VanillaSalt]

Agree completely. So many women confess to false allegations and how many do we really know about? Ima sexual deviant and don’t really care about other people and I wouldn’t go out raping women. I have a hard time believing enough men rape enough women to have such numbers reported especially if you believe their claims the numbers are significantly unreported. I don’t think people are naturally that way…

Exceptions exist. But even for them there’s a cause we should be looking at rather then making laws to protect women instead building society so women get raped less just cause.

There’s only a few ways I can see your average joe raping women. Your already in the act and permissions taken away. Ide say she bares SOME responsibility for not making a better choice from the start but we should still accept she rescinded permission. Aside from this your average guy wouldn’t rape unless drunk or drugged. I wanna see the rate of rape reports on a school that adamantly prohibits alcohol and drugs.

[tartaarsaus]

problem with false rape accusations and rape itself is that they are very difficult to prove. Higher punishment with near-zero probability of being convicted doesn’t really change anything

[VanillaSalt]

Then where is the burden of proof for rape? There needs to be both a burden of proof like dna AND proof it was not Consensual. Also complete media blackout until found guilty!

[tartaarsaus]

The burden of proof for rape is so high because proving it is not consensual is difficult. Do you really not have a clue about these processes in court?

And no, because media reporting on things is their basic free speech. And well, reporting on an on-going trial would not even be something close to defamation, libel or slander, it is their right to report it. And it is anyone’s right in the public to make up their own mind about it

[tartaarsaus]

Rape is always difficult to prove because often it is a matter of “he said, she said”. That’s basically never enough evidence.

[VanillaSalt]

We never got reports about the maxwell trial so don’t tell me we don’t do it… also let’s be honest… as a man of your accused your guilty in the eyes of society. People will treat you worse. Men lose jobs, scholarships, spend time in jail, even lose years off their lives.

[tartaarsaus]

Ugh, if you cherrypick a single case based on your perception, that doesn’t prove anything.

And so what? Media has the inherent right to report on cases that are going to court. They are not saying someone is guilty, butnthey have an inherent right to report on it. And people are free to form their own opinion.

[VanillaSalt]

You don’t even know what the maxwell trial was do ya…

[tartaarsaus]

I do know it. It’s just a stupid point to bring up

[VanillaSalt]

Your killin my good mood this morning man… it’s THE biggest trial in the country and yet they didn’t report and weren’t allowed too?

[tartaarsaus]

I don’t know in what cave you’ve lived for the last months if you think it hasn’t been reported on

[VanillaSalt]

There’s a fine line between being ignorant and just plain stupid. Do you honestly believe the numbers of rape are correct right now? Just the numbers of reported rapes are believed to be less then half of all rapes. Furthermore false allegations cannot be proven without proof and or confession. How many times have you seen a story of friends reporting false allegations made by other friends? What about the ones not reported? Do you believe more friends are willing to turn in their friends or more friends are willing to cover for their friends?

I’m ignorant not stupid. I don't know the real numbers but I’m smart enough to know the numbers are inaccurate. You on the other hand…

[tartaarsaus]

What the fuck are you trying to say here? Your point has simply morphed into “number of rapes is lower than reports say it is” and “there are lots of false accusations”? That’s hardly relevant, as a) you don’t base sentences on how prevalent something is alone and b) rate of conviction is far more likely to deter someone than greater sentences. The whole problem with sentencing rape and false accusations is that both are very difficult to prove in a court.

Simply speaking, I don’t know how many rapes happen. And if I don’t know, it is best to refer to the source more likely to be correct than me guessing about, which say that rape happens a lot. So if they say rape happens a lot, I’m just going with that rape happens a lot.

And no, rejecting more reasonable research is in fact stupid

[tartaarsaus]

More importantly, whether the rate of rape or false accusations is overreported or underreported is not particularly relevant whether new legislation with harsher punishment is necessary.

[VanillaSalt]

“Burden of proof is so high” is your response to me question “where is the burden of proof” referring to men immediately being treated as guilty by the media and society upon accusation. Some men even being convicted WITHOUT EVIDENCE and laws like title 9 allowing students to be removed from school with just the accusation.

You defend the media reporting on an issue as they see fit… meanwhile as I said people judge men accused to rape almost as harshly as convicted rapists. Meanwhile I point out the hottest trial this century is censored to protect special interests (ironically in regards to rape) while the normal man don’t deserve such benefit. So I’m not cherry picking cases… and while most tried allow media in the court room during court this one didn’t. Irrelevant I’m not arguing this shit with you.

“Number of rapes is lower than reports say”? If your gonna quote me do it right. “The numbers of reported rapes are believed to be less then half of all rapes” this means it’s believed there’s double the number of rapes we think… it is relevant. The more common an issue the more attention it gets like Chicago and murder… in a place where something is more prevalent you make additional laws to assist in control… again like gun laws in Chicago.

And what the actual fuck do you mean sentencing isn’t based on prevalence? Gang laws were made and increase sentencing BECAUSE a correlation between murders and gangs… though I’m sure you right that murder changed 100% of the time and given a year would be a better deterrent then 50% of the time given life… this is obviously satire because nobody’s going to be afraid of a year in prison for murder… rate of conviction works together with sentencing lengths and the harshness with which the sentence is both pursued and executed. Also I’m not rejecting research intact I’m considering unproven research that I’m smart enough to determines likely to some degree correct.

[tartaarsaus]

Okay you’re completely steering clearly away from the question at hand then. And for the record, if you pick a single case, by definition that is cherry-picking.

The simple fact of the matter is that the media has a right to report on ongoing trials and the public has a right to form opinions about them, irrespective whether they legally make sense or not. The vast majority of the population has no real clue of legal proceedings anyway.

Lastly, no, it is fairly well proven that improving the rate of catching criminals is far better at reducing said crime than merely increasing the sentence.

And no, you’re literally rejecting research because you just don’t think it makes sense based on your personal view

[tartaarsaus]

So should there be measures fo prevent the public from forming opinions on ongoing trials? Nope. It’s not confidential information nor something that deserves to be confidential anyway.

[tartaarsaus]

And should I remind you most rape cases have zero media in their rooms, because most rape trials are not commercially interesting for news to send someone there.

And yet, your argument is that the accusation itself can already ruin someone’s life. So following your argument here, not having media within the court room itself but plenty covering it from outside already means there is coverage of this trial

[tartaarsaus]

*courtrooms

[VanillaSalt]

I’m pretty sure you’d agree there’s more rapes out there then what’s reported…

Bigger point… you have insulted my intelligence multiple times this conversation… “do you really not have a clue” accusing me of cherry picking based off my perception… “stupid point to bring up”. “Idk what cave you’ve lived in”

Do you really think such aggressive attitude is the best way to have a discussion? You insulted me something I did and something I said 4 fucking times before I responded with attitude. Your the fucking twat that came in here with attitude and started the insults and misconstruing every thing I said incorrectly. If this were an in-person discussion Ide have socked you in the mouth already.

This discussions done. Get off my post.

[tartaarsaus]

Lmfao. Saying you’re cherry-picking or don’t really pay attention to the news doesn’t mean I’m saying you’re stupid 😂😂

But ah right, physical violence because you can’t handle a simple argument, pathetic 😂

[VanillaSalt]

No physical violence because you are twisting everything I say intentionally.

I said this conversations done.

[tartaarsaus]

Lmfao 😂 this is pathetic

[Ratpack60]

This is a very excellent question. Just to complicated to discuss in a forum like this. Wish a group of us could sit down and discuss more. My complements to you.

[VanillaSalt]

Thanks it’s hard to have a real discussion about it because it’s such a touchy topic. On top of that I feel strongly both for and against my own suggestion. I can’t see the benefit and issues with both sides. Unfortunately I have to do what’s best for me to hell with others so yeah…

[Ratpack60]

I too can make arguments for both sides. And agree I have to look out for myself. Can be very scary dating

[VanillaSalt]

If it were just dating then fine. But there was this story about a man sometime last year who stopped to help with a flat was falsely accused and spent 6 months in jail. Video evidence proved him innocent. Simple acts of kindness are dangerous…

[purplepoppy]

Yes the problem is you people would just argue doing so goes against your constitutional rights

[VanillaSalt]

Ah rights… kinda tired of all these talks about rights ngl. Half these mfers need to learn what it means to have their rights taken away anyway.

[Jamie05rhs]

No. I just think there should be better investigations.

If you create a penalty for false accusations, then a victim could be punished if the rapist gets off. That will silence people from coming forward.

[Zornbob]

More severe punishments for it.

this seems to be taken lightly for something that ruins innocent peoples' lives.

[jshm2]

America just needs civilising, is all