- I'm a leftist. I consider myself a pragmatist but many of the specific changes we need are left-wing and completely not even put on the table.
- Communism HAS been tried, and it WAS left-wing and socialist. More specifically some sort of state socialism or a syndicalist republic. Many leftists will claim it hasn't been.
In my view, I'm actually rather in favor of many of the idea espoused by communism. Hunter-gatherer societies are quasi-communist and one of Marx's inspirations, and we maintained it for 95% of our time on Earth without the need for states, governments, specific leaders, or through force or coercion. Because it was driven by our social instincts. In this case, it mostly worked because groups were small enough to know everyone, and being nomadic prevents any significant resource accumulation. In a group of friends, if one person thinks they are better than the rest or entitled to more, the group doesn't hang out with that friend.
Anything modern will have to look DRASTICALLY different from this unless everyone lived in small villages that were all sovereign.
In most of what I've seen, the USSR's main issues didn't necessarily come from their specific political stance, but their governing structure.
In the USSR, the government was designed remarkably similar to that of the US. Voters voting for electors who vote in a representative council on policies and for high ranking public positions.
However, in order to vote, you have to be part of your profession and region's union. Union members vote for leaders to represent them in Congress. These elected union leaders are called "Soviets", and the Congress was the Congress/council of Soviets. The state owned the means of production and distribution, and was made up by elected workers. So by definition, it was a type of socialism, a state-socialist republic.
They even did some pretty cool things, like have territories drawn on ethnic or cultural lines, and have a version of the Senate to prevent these groups from being underrepresented.
But were's where we run into the problem. What do these elected workers vote for in Congress? They want to see their particular industry flourish in behalf of their workers. The worker representation is much better, but the priority is still the industry as a whole. And your only representation is on behalf of your industry, not you as an individual.
Basically it asks the question "what if we solved the lobbyist problem... by outright replacing the politicians with lobbyists?"
What happens is when your nuclear reactor melts down, the nuclear power union representatives do what they can to cover it up. What happens is everyone is treated as a source of labor rather than individuals. So the lobbying issues we see in the US were exaggerated and became the rule, not the exception.
Chernobyl was one of the killers for economic reasons. But as much as I respect Gorbachev, his economic model started getting them there already. He tried to hybridize their economy to have small scale capitalism within a socialist state, which sounds good, but disastrous in practice. It's much more stable to have a capitalist economy with a few publicly selected social services rather than vice versa.
The USSR was a rather interesting attempt to study. And maybe we will get to that point again with modern tech to have direct representation and maybe some Blockchain based method of removing the need for a centralized state to maintain it. But we aren't there yet.
So it's a fascinating thing to study, but for now, having rich social services funded by a capitalist economy is the way to go. Our main hurdles are the same as theirs. Improper representation, lack of accountability, and prioritizing industry over the individual. If we can fix these (ranked voting and banning superpacs and lobbyists?) I think we can maintain what we have long enough until the next big thing can work.
I think anarcho-communism and anarcho-capitalist will be around for ages. Think about my hunter-gatherer example, or small village example.
With hunter-gatherers, while everything was shared, people aren't necessarily forced to do it, and the labor benefits you and your in-group. So it is all about both autonomy and collectivism. They coexist.
In a small village, they could be relatively free of taxation and big distant governing bodies. But it also has the simplest socialism: The shoemaker runs the shoe business. So the laborer controls the means of production and distribution.
In large modern societies, industries are so big that engineering firms are run by executives and lawyers, not engineers. The factory workers at Nike don't exactly have much control of shoe production and distribution. Executives at the top do, and may never touch a single shoe except in their own closet.
So in big societies, collective action doesn't work as naturally, and individual success often comes through the exploitation, rather than lifting, of the workers.
Our own instincts can't keep up, because a politicians in-group is their political party, not their constituents. A CEOs in-group is not their employees, but other CEOs.
So we end up having to choose between individual gain and collective gain, and I think there will be a roughly equal number of people on either side until we can find away to get individualism and collectivism to coincide again.
So then individualism and collectivism don't work as well.
I live in India where we have had experience with Marxist and Maoist communism. The latter in the form of an ongoing insurgency.
Positives of Communism - Communism favors radical dissolution of existing power structures based on birth so it's attractive for people who were on the bottom of the class structure. In my country there is a system of caste which are determined by birth. And to the members of the "lower castes" the concept of communism and its forms were very attractive
Negatives of communism - centralization - communism tends to centralize everything, so there is a strong govt., heavy state and secret police and over all political repression.
So I think that for a deeply inequal society which cannot be fixed on its own. Communism is good only initially to provide an equal playing field, thereafter, like China, it must transition to a more capitalistic model. I always wanted to mention transition to democratic form, but as we have seen China has not democratized but their politics is participatory.
I dislike communism because I don't want the government controlling my every move. I don't mind something between capitalism and socialism but communism is going overboard.
Each system has advantages and disadvantages. Yes, capitalism is freedom, but if you don't have money, your life will become a mess and you will live like a slave. In communism, every citizen lives on equal terms, and no one suffers from poverty.
All of that sounds good, until you find out that some get perks, more resources and better access. That right about the time the others begin to. doubt they have equality.
Which is normal. Equality does not exist in nature. Better looking and interesting always gets better rewards.
If we can get it to where everyone looks the same, same. height, and personality, there would be ones who would go without. And from there it falls apart.
Communism/Socialism is not totally a boogeyman, I think it certainly has good aspects. Free health and education. Interest-free loan facility sounds good
I like it for very simple reason. Marx was a clever guy who was way ahead of his time and if it wasn't for him and other influences in UK we would still have our labour force like the Victorian era. Which is something no one wants apart from the rich capitalists that still exist today who couldn't give a thought about there labour force. As the quote say's "Accumulation of wealth at one end of the pole is at the same time accumulation of Misery, Agony of toil, Slavery, Ignorance, Brutality, Mental Degradation." Or another one "Money robbed the world of it's value." He was a cleaver man who understood the evil in money and lived his life against it even till death, not many would do what he did, nor many would call it smart but that's more them thinking selfishly about how they want to go on holiday soon or use there money to do something they want.
People will always dislike those smarter and more dignity in there cause, more foresight, more the outcast of society with a point. So that's the fate he has come to by many.
I don't care for what other's did which was not communism like Stalin and that because if it was proper truly in the words of Marx Stalin would of been caring for the labour force which he wasn't and let many starve to death.
Aye but so many who dislike communism always use Stalin or China or some other dictator as the example of communism failing or been a bad thing when such things were not communism in the first place. They don't typically be bothered to look up the communism that was lead by good people with good intent. Which is why one has to point out in their opinion sadly. And even by doing so you can bet there is still some guy out there thinking China at the moment are Commies just because of their party name sake than there actions which clearly are not anything close to communism.
Still, the Soviet Union was not an innocent state. They assimilated many Turks. Today, Central Asian Turks see themselves as a different race, because of the Russians.
All systems can be used for good or bad in the hands of humans. Even capitalism can succeed thanks to well-meaning people. Therefore, before systems, we need to look at what people do and why they do it.
Dunno much about that but of course soviet union wasn't a innocent state there the ones who butchered the name of communism along with KGB. Which is why I was speaking of Marx here who had nothing to do with Russia, someone once told me they actually thought Marx was Russian when trying to proclaim him evil. Me just sat there laughing like you don't know much about Marx do you? lol
Cuba's not much in my knowledge area but I would guess probably not? and that they haven't done much to follow Marx's words such as other places haven't. I don't think one place has truly grasped how to do it yet and follow that path of thinking without some person corrupting it sadly. And I think we shall never do so tbh, it's so far for humans to reach but let's just hope that's like me saying Tv's now that's impossible lol. Ah the difference pfft depends on how many terms were going on here and what majority would think. I would say today it means communism ideology's like Universal health care as example been put into capitalism society's to try and even out the balance. That way best of both worlds I would assume. In the past Socialism was more just a step before communism, so Socialism is what you have first before fully traversing over.
Communism by Marx sounds good on paper. It doesn't take human nature over a long period of selfishness, personal enrichment, jealousy, spite, vindictive behaviors, competitiveness, envy, and the desire to hurt and kill others for personal gain.
I’m pretty neutral on it, overall. I think people’s fear of it is somewhat irrational. I’d agree that I haven’t seen it carried out well yet, but I don’t think those results are necessities or inevitabilities of the system.
I like the spirit of it. I’m not really sure “society” and “individualism” can functionally co-exist with positive results. Like what we have here now in America…. this can’t be it, nowhere near “good enough” or even “acceptable”, yet we champion it as the greatest society the planet has to offer, and that’s just sad, really. Even if this is truly “the best”…. this is bad, and it inspires the worst motivations in people.
What I like about it is, we shouldn’t be living in societies where we chase opulence. I just think that’s “doing life wrong”, period, and having the wrong goals and priorities. And I kind of believe you either need to have absolute freedom but little to no organization, or absolute organization but little to no freedom. Like, keep it real…humans, on the whole, are wayyyyyyyyyyy too fucking dumb and/or self-centered to be trusted to do the right individual things in life to benefit, or at least live in consideration of, your entire society. Decency and benevolence kind of needs to be forced out of people, sorry to say. So we kind of just need to pick between the combos of chaos-with-absolute-freedom, or organization-without-absolute-freedom. You have to stay on one of those two sidewalks. Capitalism attempts to walk the middle of that road, and that’s simply dangerous.
Communism is not a sustainable long-term model for a large country. It tends to work better for smaller towns where everyone has has a view, and better purpose within the collective.
At the country-state level, the leaders are out of view. The decision are made away and often in privacy. There are favors made and extra rations for the political friends of the leaders.
When the citizens begin to question or protest these scandals, a military police force is created to not only maintain the leader's safety, but to ensure the citizenry behaves and produces their part whether they want to or not. And that's when people start to disappear at night, and an communist state becomes authoritarian soon after. It happens every time without fail. And every communist in a market economy sincerely believes they can somehow do it better the next time, and those people who help usher in the communist state are the first to get executed because they will be the first to protest when they see it degrades, and hence the phrase "Useful Idiots."
I don’t like communism because it simply doesn’t work. Human beings will aspire to be better, richer, have more than others. It’s incentive that builds civilization, and communism destroys incentive. Communists follow the same pattern when they take over a country: They liquidate the upper class, take their money, property, whatever, and they can live on this stolen loot for about 10 years. They can then create the illusion that communism is working. When that illusion wears off, then the communists double down on their oppression.
Yes, I don't like communism being the enemy of the bosses, but isn't the difference clear? Do you think the working class has no right to live in good conditions?
Pure capitalism, as it was practiced in the 19th century, was absolutely brutal. The improvement of working conditions is a touch of socialism, but it was needed for everyone’s benefit.
Communism, socialism, fascism, I’m against them all.
I hate communism because I prefer not to be taken care of while being monitored 24/7 and told what to do and how to live my life. Plus communism is what created feminism, blm, antifa, and everything the leftist liberal democrats are using to destroy the USA and are trying to demonize straight white masculine men with traditional values who believe in the Christian god.
I hate socialism because I want to be able to open my own stuff. Someone working an easy job shouldn’t be making the same as someone working an extremely difficult job.
I hate Fascism for basically the same reasons why I hate communism. They are two sides of the same coin and I want nothing to do with either. They’re both toxic and dangerous and manipulative and destructive and cause nothing but divide and war.
I agree on this. An Engineer and a worker should not receive the same amount of money, yes, but I am against the exploitation of the working class. For example, do you think it is bad for the State to pay for health and education? Because this system is applied in Europe.
I am not oppressed? 😂 is it because I'm a straight white man? 😂 and men can't be oppressed? You're hilarious. Everything is about women these days. Men are only seen for the negative things they've done and never the positive things. Society hates men. That's not the fault of capitalism. That's the fault of communism and people attempting to spread it
The world is not just your country, many people complain about hospital expenses. Also, how do you get money when you're sick? If you're not rich, why pay when there's free healthcare?
I didn't sleep through history class. The great danger of power isn't it being held by a specific group or ideology; it's about it being concentrated in too few hands. When the king has to compete with the Pope for the loyalty of the people; when the State has to compete with the Corporation; when the noble House has to compete with the other noble House, they do better, and things improve. Communism is concentrating pretty much EVERY form of power into very few hands; considering how badly human psychology says it SHOULD do, it's actually done *better* in terms of civic rights abuses than you'd expect.
Moses and Jesus were both communists. The Greek Word for Communism even appears regarding the early Christian church in the Book of Acts.
If you read the Hebrew Law in the Bible, it is clear the Jews did not want corporations nor family monopolies controlling everything, so they have very high taxes and tithing requirements on the rich which must be given to the poor, and every 50 years they had the Year of Jubilee which redistributes land ownership evenly throughout the population. This prevents monopolies from enslaving everyone else.
We should do this in western civilization. We should have a "Year of Jubilee" and reset the world economy.
26.4K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
Communism cannot really work. I worked in state government and it is an environment where everybody gets the same annual raise and often promotions are achieved by who you are related to. This eliminates most of the incentives to perform at a high level. Most people figure this out and just do the bare minimum or even a little less than that and coast along until they retire. Communism is like that only much worse. Nobody has a personal stake in their job and nobody really cares. Look at the attack on Ukraine. There is a 40 mile parade of tanks and artillery and they have run out of fuel and have had many mechanical failures,. In a merit based system this would have never happened.
There is a reason why so many people try to escape from Cuba, North Korea, China and the late Soviet Union instead of migrating to this countries.
Communism is based on a FANTASY that doesn’t work in real life without widespread misery and failure. It requires a brutal and authoritarian government to operate effectively. Joseph Stalin killed more people than Hitler if you include his “purges”.
Don’t be brainwashed into that bullshit. It’s ultimately suicide for humanity in the ñame of “equality”.
Don't be ridiculous, I'm not a communist or anything, I hate both communism and capitalism. I just wonder what the people of the capitalist country think about communism.
Well that’s good to know man. When I see questions like these with little context I usually assume the worst.
I just think the younger generations are uneducated about communism has done to societies in history. It looks nice on paper but in reality it’s horrifying.
Bottom line is there will never be a “perfect” society. Human evils such as greed, corruption, hate, etc. will always exist. This unfortunately gets more complicated when you have very diverse countries like the USA.
There is only a better society. Capitalism has its downsides for sure. But overall it’s not only improved the quality of life for western countries but through globalization help improve the quality of life worldwide. No of course their are horrible side effects e. g. sweatshops, child labor in 3rd world countries. That’s evil and should be stopped. But it doesn’t take in account the overall good capitalism has accomplished. It drives competition which leads to innovation.
Commune-Village where the Individual loses his identity/personhood and becomes one of many conjoined and defined a 1 thing. Removal of Personality and Personhood into a homogenized Mass of Nothingness. Plus History demonstrates that Socialism progressing into Communism, followed to its philosophical Ends, kills unidentifiable cells, with Being, without conscious or restraint.
At its Core, Communism is about Asset Acquisition... MONEY. Take ALL that is afforded one with freedom and keep for Communist Government or dictatorship. THAT INCLUDES YOU TOO... asset acquisition.
Communism, in all its forms, is an unworkable ideology that is contrary to nature and kills the human soul. Every time it has been tried it has been imposed at the point of a gun, maintained by mass murder and terror and has resulted in poverty, starvation and misery for all except the party elite. The body count of Communism is around 200 million people.
Communism is the only form of government, in the whole of recorded human history, that felt a need to build walls to prevent the population fleeing Marx’s “workers’ paradise”. I say without reservation that the only good Communist is a dead one. I do not want their lunacy and poison to infect any society in which I live.
I dislike it. The main reason is that I have overcame a lot and put a lot of work into my life in order to get to where I'm at. Moving to a Communism based system would invalidate that and take away much of what I earned. Also it would take away much of my freedom. A lot of people who advocate Communism seem to do so from a position of what they want rather then what they can work to earn and I'm greatly opposed to that way of thinking and it comes off as lazy and selfish.
I think leftist is communism they come from the bottom of the capitalism society. so in the society. I try to be perfect one to avoid leftists. leftists are copy from rightwings. they just use rightwings' bug to kill rightwings. so I truly try to be that one they have nothing to say.
because they envy me like an aunt call phone call to me. She is cynical to anyone and society and back to her personality already. I was shining to tell her my mom went to gym after buying the apartment. She can't stand to show her true words from heart, she tried to deny it thought. I think you got the ideology so ask it, I doubted it before and dont know it but I decided to go to see with the attitude. then almsot like the aunt
It is a failed Philosophy, and has failed repeatedly, when I've pointed this out to people who think it is a good idea, their stock reply is 'It wasn't done properly' and when I ask 'What do you mean by properly' all I get back is silence.
Never said it was, but it is the most stable philosophy we have at the moment, it is by no means perfect but it has never been claimed that it is. It is at best a work in progress.
Because humans are incapable of actually create that form of government and build the social structure that requires for it to flourish. The people in power will never give it out to the people as the idea claims they should. It requires a different way of thinking, that doesn't come naturally for humans.
Led to more deaths than any other system, and Karl Marx was a loony. If Vladimir Lenin is looking at your idea as his prime influence and inspiration, holy smokes you have a flawed idealogy. Not saying others are perfect, but this one is one of the dumbest systems in world politics.
I think they are usurping the rights of the rich when they want to protect the poor. I'm not a capitalist or a communist, I'm just asking what you think.
12.1K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
It is just another system. China has managed to use communism and do more in 50 years than the West has with democracy in 150 and with 2 less world wars too
Communism is a romantic idea that like most romantic ideas that Hollywood shows us, are quite nice as a fictional idea. It doesn't work in the real world though, cause in the real, there's people who aren't benevolent and who try to exploit systems for their individual gain.
Every communist I ever met was a little bitch who complained about everything. Their methods of infiltrating society are subversive (aka bitch tactics) and weaponize their own insecurities in order to shame and mob opposing ideas. I've never met a mentally stable communist.
I do know this; Russia was much better off in so many ways when they were a part of the USSR. For evidence of this, just look at how shambolic things have become over there since 1991, first with that drunk clown Yeltsin, and now with the billionaire autocrat and kleptocrat Putin screwing things up. He's a liar, a murderer, and a thief, and the sooner he's gone the better it will be for everyone.
No, the truth is capitalism is starving people. In communism you can neither be rich nor starve. You can have a full house, you can have a full stomach, and maybe an ordinary car.
It seem you had never live in a communist country. Capitalism give you money to eat, buy a car, open your own buisnis. You need to marry for an apartment and depand how big is your family for it (you+wife+kids...)(no mother and father) The car is pointles because you can't use it for holidays or long distance travel in some days the car whit seem numbers other time who one whit odd one. You don't have food, the house is alwase cold and anybody can hear what you do.
Capitalism is only selling dreams to any working class. Capitalism is the name of the system that raises slaves who feel free. Tell me, don't you want to get free health and education services? I'm not talking about communism, but these things I'm talking about are free in communism. I do not want to give money for my health, health is already a human right.
I communism you don't have enought money in order to take the best medicines, because of the poor economy the sistem is promoting. Still the best medical sistem and SOCIAL sistems whas in West >(RFG, France, Switsenland, Sweeden, Austria...). Still the best education sistems > (RFG, UK, France...) Because they had suport and mentain a capitalism sistem. In communism the economy in concentrated on feeding the people just whit the minimum level, in the communist countrys there was still bread on the card (1/2 [depand on the size of the family] for 1 week) SAME FOR MILK, MEAT, OIL and many others. The dwellings were given according to the number of family members (husband, wife and how many children they were), the work area, the party affiliation (whether or not they were a member). You would not receive housing if you are a single man or woman if you are not a party member. In case of insistence, you could get one of the worst homes in terms of appearance and function and functionality. Education does not support creativity (because it makes people different), in communism all people must be equal (which is impossible). Communist education (which I also experienced due to the lack of options even after the fall of the regime) is an education based on automatic memorization, lacking logical understanding and completely lacking in practice. This teaching is so boring and tiring and stressful that after learning to read and write and learning to count it loses its usefulness.
In communism, all property belongs to the party / state / population, so that you as an individual have absolutely no control over your own life. The job is conditioned by the state, the education of your children, the safety of the house, the safety of the car and of any good that the state offers you. Not to mention the civil security, the oppression of free speech, the freedom of thought differently.
I don't believe the government should regulate every single aspect of people's life regarding the economy, education and lifestyle and communsim does that.
So communism doesn't have to be, though. I think the government should make people's lives easier. That's why I advocate that health and education should be free.
Yes, anyone can get some form of care in a market economy. About at the same rate as a communist model, because when health care is "Free" there will be real limitations on who gets care in any economic model. There will always be a loser.
@VanillaSalt there's a good reason why everybody from a communist or extreme socialist country is always trying to move to the US, Canada, and Europe. It's because they don't want the government ruling every aspect of their lives.
That is, if communism is bad. Why does he have so many fans in the world? Look guys, systems are like knives. A knife is bad if you use it to kill someone, but good if you use it to make a delicious meal. As you can see, systems alone are not enough to be bad. In capitalism, if you have money, you are a king, if you do not have money, you are a slave.
I absolutely prefer capitalism. It has brought the most wealth to the most amount of people in the history of humanity. You can deny reality at your peril and ignorance.
1) There is no such thing as free medical treatment. Unless you propose to force a doctor to provide his services without pay.
2) A boss absolutely has to think about his employees. They are free to leave his company at any time. If he wants to retain the best workers, he has to treat them well.
Listen, I'm not going to debate someone who is ignorant and doesn't understand how the world works.
Just because it doesn't exist in America doesn't mean it doesn't exist in the world. There is a Social State policy in Europe. They think of their fellow citizens.
Many people such as myself love freedom and don't want the government telling us everything of what to do.
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Anonymous
(45 Plus)
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Corruption. When you think about it communism isn't a bad system if everyone buys into it and gives equal effort to it. Problem is is that goes against human nature. That is why it fails.
I told you why I dislike Communism, it does not work. No one wants to work for free loaders. You are paid for what you are worth. You don't pay people all the same wage and expect everything to be okay even for people who sit at home and do drugs 20/07. This whole idea that everyone is equal in everything and owns NOTHING is so stupid.
Yes, that aspect of communism is bad, but while a poor person lives more comfortably in communism, the rich are more comfortable in capitalism. The main players of both systems are different.
Communism is the gateway for leaders like Stalin. At some point the leaders will need to mandate that things get done while under gunpoint. When that happens, it has to because people get mad, and often go on strike. You can't afford that in a communist model, and it's just easier to inprison and kill the citizens who develop opinions that are not for the collective good.
Communism was destroying my country for 44 years, killing national heroes just because they were "dangerous" to the government, and fucking up the economy
Freedom comes with responsibility… remember abortions claim in the 90s… safe, legal, rare. It’s not so rare is it? Accountability is gone from most aspects of life. Our politicians and media whom run this country lie to our faces and nobody does shit to change it… that’s a responsibility too…
I don't dislike Communism; that is, TRUE Communism. What passes for Communism in the REAL world are simply corrupt dictatorships, NO different than Fascism. The problem is the SAME.
It is the CORRUPT will of ONE IMPOSED ON MANY for PERSONAL GAIN!!
Putin, Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-un, Bolsonaro, Dump, Hitler et al; NO DIFFERENCE!
True communism would require anarchy and no money and a lot of automation, because the moment you enact authority over others, you lose equal privilages, and the moment you base earnings on effort, you lose equal shares.
It's basically impossible to pull off, but I do agree that if you follow definitions, no country or governence was ever actually communist.
Yes, everyone has rules anyway. For example, if you believe in a religion, you have to follow those rules or you will be punished. States have rules too, and you will be punished if you break those rules. So actually you are not totally free right now and nobody wants to be totally free. because freedom is chaos.
My #1 problem with communism is that it allows the centralization of power so that one person can just decide on a whim to invade another country just because he feels like it.
I don't dislike communism, only that those that work towards it. Every leader that worked towards communism realised he has more to gain personally as the state than dissolving the state completely.
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
Communism has killed more people than the holocaust and I am old enough to remember the food shortages and widespread poverty in the USSR. The only people who benefited from communism are the very few in top leadership.
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
I was just always taught at school and at home that Communism is bad, and if I support it I am a treasonist.
@Crucis84 They're capitalist but still wave the commie flag therefore they're commies and shutting people off the net and arresting people for protesting is COMMUNISM
Oh my God you're a FOOL! Do you know ANYTHING AT ALL about communism? No, I'd have to say you do not, based upon the utter nonsense you've written here.
It's not that simple at all! Holy cow you're a real dummy. Go back to school, and actually LEARN something this time! I'm DONE with conversing with someone this ignorant. You must be a Yank for sure.
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