What is so bad about communism?

[Anonymous]

Is valuing community over money really such a bad thing? Let’s be honest… capitalism is not working.

[CalmUntilAbused]

Well... Communism is a totalitarian sociopolitical ideology. What You described as "valuing community over money" is more fitting for communitarianism. The main difference is that communitarianism is voluntary and communism is enforced. In communalism, You are free to join and leave the commune, whereas as history shows, leaving a communist country poses quite the challenge. Other than that, communitarianism is centered around acting for the benefit of the community (or the commune) rather that collectivism and planned economy, which is prone to ineffectiveness and thus the spread of poverty in the country.

If You want an example, modern China is communitarian instead of communist (regardless of the official rhetorics). While China was communist, it could not afford the level of effectiveness needed to compete on the global market. The best China could do was to basically rent their citizens as a workforce to foreign companies for some rather low fees. Once China got some know-how and switched to communitarianism, it's become the US' most serious economic rival on the world stage. Now then... China's economic doctrine is pretty much capitalist right now, promoting individual initiative where present, with the only rule being that the private companies must serve the interests of China and its citizens, in accordance with the communitarian sociopolitical doctrine.

Many other Southern and Eastern Asian countries implement communitarianism quite naturally, as their communities are simply used to it with at least centuries of experience, whereas the West is more used to the Protestant individualism. However, the outcomes are usually worse than those of China. Japan, for example, is communitarian sociopolitically, but corporationist economically, thus seriously hindering its own success (but it's still one of the most technologically developed countries in the world, probably surpassing even the US - if we take military technology out of the equation).

As for capitalism not working... The current economic doctrine in the West is corporationism, which is a rather horrible hybrid of capitalism and communism, where private companies take the place of totalitarian governments. The actual capitalism is what brought about the vast economic potential of the West, which is exactly why it can afford the corporationist abomination of today and why it has not yet lost to rapidly growing communitarian-capitalist China.

Thus... I'm a great supporter of communitarianism (honestly, as a Catholic, I don't really have a choice, as communitarianism is deeply engraved into Catholicism and Christianity in general, with the organizational layout of the first Christians being communes - it's pretty clear from the Acts of the Apostles), but I'm allergic to oppressive totalitarianism, which is why I will always reject communism.

[Chazmatazz269]

Nothing. Over a thousand fully functioning communes in the world. No problemo.
The idiots who would suggest otherwise have never actually heard about real communism, let alone experienced it. Corrupt governments claim communism, but don’t actually practice it, then they oppress people and dummies who don’t know any better think there’s “proof” that communism is evil. Guess what! There are people oppressed and dying of starvation and easily preventable diseases, right here in the USA. BECAUSE THEY DON’T HAVE MONEY! And this is supposedly as good as it gets. Oh, and north Korea calls itself a “democratic republic”, just like the USA. So by the miserable logic those idiots use, one would suggest that north Korea is ALSO “the best possible system”. Maybe those dummies should go live there and tell us how exactly like the US it really is!
I sure wouldn’t miss them. Ell oh ell!

[jennifer_bloom]

The main reason people hate communism, that none will admit to, is that they don't want equality with others. They cannot accept making a pay salary in the 50% percentile with the rest of the world cause they are accustomed to their 1% life, involving houses and SUV's and luxury hot pot buffets and barbecue holidays and trips to the beach every summer and movie nights every year.

[Agape93]

It becomes an issue when others feel entitled to. Y land and my property, when I bought it all and worked my ass of for it and to maintain it.

You want community? Cool.

Wanna share stuff? Cool. Just leave me out of it.

[OlderAndWiser]

1. "What is so bad about communism?" Are you referring to the idealistic theory of communism or the way in which communism has previously been implemented around the world?

2. "Is valuing community over money really such a bad thing?" No, but that is not the way communism has been implemented in the past. It has always led to a totalitarian state in which a relatively few people prosper at the expense of the masses.

3. "Let’s be honest… capitalism is not working." It is not working for you? It does work for many people. Capitalism does not pretend that it will provide for every member of the society. It only gives people the opportunity to succeed by their own efforts. . . and not everyone wants to make the effort.

[NamerOfStars]

... and you think Communism IS working? That a constant stream of people fleeing brutal government oppression is just "the way things are supposed to be"? That creating wealth disparities by lifting people out of poverty is somehow WORSE than smashing everyone down equally?

The one and only time a purely Marxist workers' organization banded together to force their will upon the business owners controlling the factory was the Polish overthrowing the Communists.

What's so bad about Communism is that it refuses to face the reality of human life and psychology; it's hopelessly utopian. The opiate of the pseudointellectual.

[exitseven]

People have no stake in the community. There is no private ownership and it does not matter how hard you work because everyone gets treated the same. Working for the government is sort of like this as well. This is part of the reason the government is so inefficient. People that work for the government get the same raises as everyone else. You can get by with doing the bare minimum and even less and you will be treated the same way as somebody who really works hard. Communism serves the lazy and the unmotivated.

[msc545]

Okay, so communism historically is not great, mainly because ownership is concentrated in just a few people who run everything and it quickly turns into essentially a dictatorship. Socialism on the other hand, refers to a system in which most things are shared but not everything and fewer people control the essentials. There is such a thing as Democratic socialism which involves a democratic political system in which people vote for what they want and vote for different priorities. Yet the economics involve sharing. Some examples in the US are Medicare and Medi-Cal and to some extent the post office, although not in recent years. Social security is a very well-known social system in the United States. That works very well.

[BonzoInBitburg]

In a speech on Nov. 11, 1947 in the House of Commons, Sir Winston Churchill said that “democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those others that have been tried.” Similarly, capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the others.

[Staximus]

Because it only works when you have an Ak47 pointed at you. People are never going to cooperate. You have to take away all their freedoms and force them to cooperate with the fear of death. How great is that? The closest thing the earth has ever had to true communal living is the tribal lifestyle. That's the only true form of communism. Tribes still fought and killed each other over hunting grounds, women, religion, and resources

[Starrrboy]

What is so bad about communism? well, it needs perfect people with perfect morals and perfect management skills to always be in charge otherwise EVERYTHING WILL GO DOWN TO COMPLETE SHIT!.. and that's exactly what happened throughout history... because humans as a majority are just not that good to pull off something like that.. so, communism will always be a utopia that cannot exist in reality..

[OtterMan68]

It only works on a small scale: monasteries and convents, for example where everyone voluntarily buys into it.

When doing it on a national scale, people are forced into it, and it does not take into account differences in intelligence, ambition, etc. This is why it has always failed when tried top-down from the government.

[Billlewis]

You mean besides the fact that it has never even once worked, at any time throughout the history of mankind? Be careful what you wish for; you might get it.

[Asker]

And capitalism is not working either, so now what?

[Billlewis]

I beg to differ. Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system of government or economy oriented way of life in the 00 or so years that we've been a civilized species. You've just been misled by the regressive left.

[Asker]

Actually you’ve been misled by the obnoxious and cruel minded far right. Capitalism is not working for the majority of people. if you really can’t see that you need to wake up

[Billlewis]

Yeah, okay... 'I hate America, I want to tear it down.. l hate America 'cause I'm a spoiled clown... I hate America, I'd rather learn Chinese... 'cause I just can't be pleased'

[ApplePie409]

There is that... lol

[Kaneki05]

Nothing, but people fear the trying new than sticking to old. Rather stick with a bad but working system than try for a good but not worked yet system.

[AviatorTom]

On a small scale (communes), communism works. On a large scale, a complete country, communism fails. Communism is not bad, it's just that there are better economic systems that work.

[gorydetails]

capitalism has brought the most wealth and prosperity to the most people ever in the history of humanity. Communism brings misery and death. Commies can get fucked

[Asker]

Your objection is based off irrational fear

[gorydetails]

No, it’s based on reality. Feel free to emigrate to N Korea if you want communism.

[patois]

There is not one redeeming trait of communism. Capitalism works great. What is not working is post keynesian socialism.

[patois]

36.26% of US GDP comes directly from centrally planned government spending that operates on debt fabricated out of thin air by the Federal Reserve. That central government is lobbied by the syndicate (i.. e The Vanguard, BlackRock, State Street) which control much of the boards of the fortune 500 thus influces the large majority of American GDP (roughly 75% with government grants added in). The syndicate chooses the winners and losers in the economy, by granting their companies public funds, which are borrowed in the tax payers names, from the Fed that prints them out of thin air. Everything you hate about America, is a direct hatred of Communism. You hate The Vanguard.

[patois]

https://investor.vanguard.com/corporate-portal

[Astarlessnightsky]

Most of the bad things are just made up and spread as propaganda, mainly during the cold war, but today as well.

[Awesomesauce2005]

Capitalism works better than communism. History has taught that time and time again. Only improvement on capitalism is individualism, but nobody actually wants to take accountability for their actions.

[BarryLiverstone]

Any system executed In its purest form would be an improvement. The challenge with communism is that usually socialism is the gateway and socialism usually demotivates the workers

[jshm2]

There are always problems with any political system.

[DaBiggestBird]

It seems the keypad isn’t working. I see what you were trying to type, and I will autocorrect it for you.

*Bidenomics isn’t working

[OddBeMe]

That’s not communism. At least as the 20th century has defined it.

You want to express interest in socialism. Which most of Europe has combined with democracy.

[JacobJordan]

Depends which version of communism. So far no version has worked

[Anonymous]

*checks notes*

Genocide

Starvation

Mass rapes

Zero freedom

Am I missing anything

[Asker]

None of those things describe communism

[Opinion Owner]

They've all happened when communism has previously attempted

[noohair]

Capitalism works fine as long as the government does not rig it.

[KrakenAttackin]

Oh I don't know, the 100+ million murdered might be a place to start.

[Anonymous]

communism values community? LMAO

[Kaneki05]

It all comes from a guy who tried to support workers in factories that mistreated employee's if that's not caring about a community I don't know what is.

[Opinion Owner]

@Kaneki05 who? Karl Marx the founder of communism? the same guy who purposely exploits the immutable differences of individuals and pushes the notion of such divisions as a form of "unfair" discrimination therefore to socially enforce the individual to dwell only onto their own selfishness whether it be obtaining victimhood status to gain unwarranted privileges or fake SJWs who virtue signal for a moral high ground?

after all, there's nothing quite like uniting a group when there's a perceived common enemy

hundreds of years later with millions upon millions of deaths, it sure looks like a community of selfish individuals is still a community after all

[Kaneki05]

Exploited what? He died a poor man who didn't amount to much besides leaving the idea for labor force to fight back which worked hence why now we have better laws for no longer allowing children working in such bad conditions and more healthcare, and support for labor workers.
It's still bad but much better than back then and that was thanks to him.

Saying the labor force wasn't victims back then is insane because they were and arguably still are today. Making a kid go up a chimney or making a factory worker working in very unsafe conditions wasn't some random whining it was real issues that anyone with a brain or wasn't getting rich from it would have problems with it.

[Kaneki05]

Go do some research how bad Victorian times was for labor workers then honestly reply to me how that was a bad thing to fight against.

[Opinion Owner]

@Kaneki05 the idea of the lower class rebelling against the upper class isn't a new idea. it's been going on since the collapse of nearly every civilization. Karl Marx took it one step further so perceived victims could justify enacting retribution upon the perceived oppressors and tyrants the ability to actually control the masses by creating classless societies that pitted against each other

his communist ideas didn't help the labor force except destroy the middle class and equalize societies to the point of having no diversity in their gifts, talents, beliefs and culture. now everyone is mostly lower class being manipulated by an upper class that justifies it's position in power by creating false boogeymen against the lower class

even today in communist countries, there are children working in factories to produce many of the products bought in the west

working conditions have never been great hence why these labor jobs tend to get paid more than cushy air-conditioned office jobs not because of any immutable discrimination that communism will make it out to be.

under communism, the safe cushy jobs will be paid just as much as the dangerous jobs which in actually is even more unfair when the dangerous jobs should actually be paid much more

[Kaneki05]

There is no communist country it has never been done, are you one those who truly thinks China or something is actually communist? When they are nothing alike.
And you still didn't answer how fighting back against how bad labor was in Victorian era was.

Oh yeah sure factory workers get paid more and miners for there dangerous job yeah sure lol. I am sure John working in 1860s agrees that his pay was great. And that totally his pay was worth it when he was dying from some problems while young.

It's honestly like you know nothing. But hey you are right about rebelling against higher society is not new. But that still don't defeat the point about if it wasn't for Marx, people in factories may have not fought back as hard and children maybe of kept working in chimneys for longer.
And you know if you were born back then working in such conditions, I bet you would of been working in such conditions with a terrible pay and be on his side.

[Opinion Owner]

@Kaneki05 what? there's never been a communist country ever? China is not a communist country? I guess neither are North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia or the Soviet Union

labor being bad back in the day wasn't due to a lack of communism but due to technology and safety practices we'd consider to be primitive compared to our standards of today.

with or without Marx, people were always going to fight back even though communism is largely responsible for enslaving them in the first place. under the free market, workers can just say no and go work elsewhere. under communism there was no such choice and even today that's still the case in many communist countries... then again you don't believe there's ever been a communist country

[Kaneki05]

They literally aren't commiust. If I call myself a duck does that make me a duck?
Nazis proclaimed to be socialists but in reality it was just whatever Hitler wanted because that's dictatorship.

It's more you just don't know what these words mean. I am gonna proclaim to be a. Republican though I am left as hell but you'll believe I am a Republican right?

None of what China does is based on Marx idsa, it's based on their own ideals. Same for when Russia did it. Lenin did want to follow Marx ideas but then satlin killed him and took his place and did whatever he wanted.
He never followed it like Lenin.

And no it was bad because of tech that was a part of it sure. But the actual human rights laws written by those at top that's only their fault. Even back then they could of made kids work in safer jobs and make factory workers have more breaks and safety.
And given them better pay but they didn't.
That wasn't a tech limitation that was just human rights been in worse back then.

And every society through history and now still fight for better rights because it just makes sense. It's not as if people are revolting for no reason. Every revolution has a tipping point that pushed people to it thanks to those at top been corrupt.
If fighting that ain't caring about your community then I wonder what is? Rolling over and taking all the hardship without complaining?

[Kaneki05]

Stalin* idea*

[Opinion Owner]

@Kaneki05 they are communist because of their actions, not their claims and they are the result of what happens when they practice communism to it's absolute core

the laws are always going to be written by those on top yet still enforced by those on the bottom. communist governments will always hide behind the mantra of "equality" to justify having those on the bottom support the system due to its false messaging because it helps them individually not community as a whole.

but since you don't believe there's ever been a communist country, this debate is going nowhere

[Kaneki05]

Please tell me how selling things to captilist countries for profit, and how China has people of different wealth if they so call follow comminuism which wouldn't do such things.
Tell me how people own things in China if they are so called commie. Where is the ideal of everyone is the same in China do show me.

Meanwhile while I wait for an answer you can't give I'll go start a Republican party that agrees with everything opposite, and call it Republican.

One of the fastest growing ecomany societys from selling goods is somehow commie lol.

[Opinion Owner]

@Kaneki05 communist countries only partake in the free market because they're outnumbered hence why they heavily push for globalism. their foreign affairs and trade has nothing to do with what goes on internally within their countries.

in China, nobody owns anything, even during the countdown to the 2008 Beijing Olympics, a bunch of homes were literally demolished and residents forcibly evicted to create stadiums, residents of the Yangtze river were also forcibly evicted to make way for the 3 Gorges Dam. everything is the property of the government who dictates your destiny.

whatever name you give to your political party is irrelevant, it's the policies that matter. you could name your political party the Purple Pokka Dot Party and has no relevance whatsoever to whether or not voters will vote for you or not. and speaking of voting, there's no voting out a communist government.

[Kaneki05]

There are literally rich people in China look it up it's not hard. So it's not like it's outside the system at all. Hell there was some idiot who spent over thousands on transactions on a Chinese game because he was a rich China man who thought that would be a good idea.
Explain how that works?
A communist country wouldn't really allow that at all.

It's simple if you think China is commie explain how they have wealthy people there who profit from captilism in said country?
The answer is because it ain't commie, it's just as capatilist as the west with poor and rich getting richer from the poor. And companies feeding from dumb rich people who spend money on materialistic shit.

[Opinion Owner]

@Kaneki05 yeah those rich people in China are rich because they have connections with the CCP and all the money in the country belongs to the government who would use it for their own purposes. that's how communism works. big government doing whatever they want and getting away with it.

even the "rich" people in China aren't actually rich, they're using borrowed money by the CCP which can easily be stripped away from them whenever the CCP deems necessary

just look at Jack Ma, one of these Chinese billionaires who had all his assets confiscated by the CCP and is still currently "missing" (most likely dead with his organs been harvested)

poorer getting poorer and richer getting richer is the result of communism

I agree materialism is a problem hence why the west is facing the same problem right now

[Kaneki05]

What you just described ain't communism though, in communism there would be no rich in the first place and no killing people for money that's precisely how communism wouldn't work, and no poorer getting poorer and richer getting richer is the exact result of capitalism.
Communism isn't about money so as soon as you start talking about assets you've already failed at communism.
You agree the west is facing the same problem that's because both are capitalistic societies that care about materialism. If China was actually communist, there country wouldn't be so wealthy because that's not how communism works.
It's like a billionaire proclaiming to be a commie while sat there in his luxurious house that has 5 expensive cars that he never uses. And for some reason you are believing him.

China is just simply an authoritarian dictatorship which screws whatever rules they want to control the people, and keep their profits growing it has no idealistic theology of Marx's vision for a better future.
The ones controlling the country aren't really thinking about Marx at all, hell I bet if you were to ask them they probably couldn't tell you which country he was born from nvm his writing on communism.

[Anonymous]

Communism is not working either