The reality is that the US has some of the laxest gun laws in the world and more firearms than actual people yet we still have the lowest rates of actual gun violence. In fact if it were not for the Black on Black murder rates in big cities committed with largely stolen fire arms that were illegally obtained the Untied States almost wouldn't even have a criminal shooting rate. We don't even make the top 10s lists for actual gun violence.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/08/gun-deaths-firearms-americas-homicide/ Even in this one the world Economic forum. if you by pass the chart that lumps ALL gun deaths together (remember 57% of all gun deaths in the USA are suicide) even they have to admit that the USA don't even rank in the top 10 for actual gun violence. the morbid irony is that virtually all the other countries that beat in gun violence have far far stricter gun control laws yet significantly out pace the US in gun violence... namely due to the fact that anti gun laws only stop law abiding citizens from obtaining a fire arm. Criminals gonna criminal so restricting guns from law abiding individuals does infact make you less safe or so the data seems to indicate. These arguments are literally retarded and reductive and fall apart in the face of any real statistical scrutiny which mean guns will never be banned.
Also this very question is kinda stupid as for many many centuries now it has been fairly common practice to keep weapons away from Politicians royalty and generally just important people. easier to watch for a threat when you are expecting a room full of people to be disarmed as famous important and powerful people draw a lot of loonies. It is something called... security tactics.
yeah LT dingle berry. AND OVER HALF OF THOSE, ARE SUICIDES. lol this is why lefties are losing you are literally liars or just to ignorant to read statistics... or willfully stupid.
My facetiousness doesn't come across well over text. Per your argument, there must be a causal effect between gun laws and more gun violence, eh? With the right types of narrowly-focused statistics, all sorts of correlations can me made that are entirely unfounded. For example, we can inversely correlate the number of pirate attacks/year with global warming. They're entirely unrelated, but we can correlate anything that we want!
@OddBeMe You are correct, and the statistics support this. The dripping sarcasm of my first response didn't come across at all given how poorly text conveys inflection in tone.
Have you noticed that rather than to discuss the issue on the merits of the argument, or applicability of the stated statistics, she simply turned to emotions and blaming? Speaking loudly or with great conviction doesn't mean that anything that is said is factual. Gun violence pertaining to DEVELOPED COUNTRIES is mostly an American problem. This said, when one supports an argument by using the word, "retarded," it's best for us to move along and not take anything that is said seriously.
Except there literally is no causation other than what you lefties dream up. The US has over 80million gun owners and 400 million fire arms. We are literally the most heavily armed population in the world with a gun murder rate of 10-15 thousand people. This happens primarily in democrat run shit holes like Chicago and Detroit etc etc. So there is actually more causation between failed democrat policies and crime then the number of guns and crime. Again your own lefty mouth piece rags like cnn and msnbc even admit that when you take suicide off the table our gun crime rate is negligible at best. Also sarcasm is the bastion of losers who have no argument. Come back when you have a better argument than your bruised manginas.
1. People use firearms to commit suicide because they work and are painless you duplicitous fcking clown. Thats why you don't include them in the statistics. Kind of like Sweden not including the race of the perpetrators of rapes and assaults as people would see that 90% of them are being committed by non-white immigrants from dirt countries. Gotta steer the audience in one direction or the other amirite? As if people are suddenly going to reconsider suicide if there's no guns available.
2. Snap your fingers and remove every shooting involving brown people. Where does the US rank in shootings then? Don't worry, I did the math years ago, we move up to within the top 20 safest countries on Earth. Britain would be MORE dangerous than the US with their daily stabbings. So 40,000 shootings a year, removed 25k for suicides, 3000 for law enforcement, 9000 for Jamal shooting Jamal over some Jordans (media doesn't care about those, especially when Jamal commits a weekly mass shooting in Chiraq) and you're left with what? *GASP* per capital consistency with other western countries! Imagine that. 400 million guns in this country and we have the same per capita gun death rate as other western countries +- 5 countries in either direction. But within the top 20 in gun death rate.
You guys are always fishing for some GOTCHA moment instead of actually understanding the topic like this is effing middle school. "Yea well, Goku can't beat anyone, one on one without his Spirit Bomb!" "Yea well, Vegeta cheated to get as strong as Goku!" .
Whats really tragic is how much of a stranglehold the media has on you you guys' reasoning skills. I'm talking deliberately leaving important context out of the story, only to have you people running off into the ether with a pair of scissors believing you're intellectually superior to those who read past "Bad thing bad! Ban thing! Racism!" I saw an article just this morning FACT CHECK: Do more people die from hands and feet than assault weapons? And you idiots give them that click, that eyeball that $0.03 worth of ad revenue only to learn, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay at the bottom of the article (because viewer retention time factors into the price ad companies are willing to pay) yes more people die from hands and feet than assault weapons. OR they'll bait and switch your ass a la Snopes and Politifact do. The headline will read FACT CHECK: Do more people die from hands and feet than assault weapons? And they'll say FALSE! More people die from guns than fist fights. Because they know you're too stupid to see what they did there. And with that pair of scissors, you'll come running to the internet and embarrass yourselves. Lucky for you, thank God tribalism is so high right now where the facts no longer matter. Dumbest, most inaccurate sht ever will STILL get thousands of thumbs ups and likes, because the person stated the proper words in front of the tribe
Doesn't mean we have to be stupid about allowing a wacko to have any chance to kill Trump and people who agree with him.
Like how stupid America has been not to take enough measure to keep weapons out of schools. Why don't all schools have metal detectors like courts do? Guns are dangerous in dangerous hands. It doesn't mean they aren't helpful in good peoples hands.
If teachers have access to a gun and trained with it during a lock down. They have a better chance at protecting students and themselves than just hiding if a gunman gets in somehow.
do you know how many guns I have I have an AR-15 AK-47 Scar M14 M1 30.06 338 50 cal black powder. .45 pistol which can shoot shot gun shells, 5 20 gauge shotgun to 12 gauge and a 410 I have a 1897 colt pistol I probably have about 20 to 30 guns. I will not shoot children I will not shoot anyone but government IF and ONLY IF it comes down to it. Gun aren’t the problem mental illness and evil people are, there is no sort of gun control that would have stopped the shooting in the Texas shooting.
he bought the gun legally he was 18 years old he had no record of mental health or criminal abuse backgrounds there is nothing we could have done.
now what can be done 1 sure move the ability to buy a rifle or shot gun at 21 2 arm the teachers 3 better security at school aka armed security
guns are a tool life a knife or a hammer or a sword. It’s a lot easier to get a hammer a knife or a sword. So please don’t paint 99.99% of gun owner as the bad guy for the.001%
Or just ban anyone from getting a gun to begin with. Statistically hundreds of Americans are shot each day… so why hasn’t the right for everyone to own a gun preventing these attacks? Because having guns around does more damage then it prevents
Secret services' rules supercede the presidents requests of them. Neither the NRA nor Trump have a say. But you'd know that if you read past some BS hit piece written by a 23 year old staffer at the Daily Beast, which would then immediately be regurgitated by David Pakman et al. #Journalism
"Coward Donald Trump hides in his basement from protesters lol!"
Yea, the Secret Service will literally drag your ass down there. As president you are defacto property of the federal government. You don't get to come and go as you please. This especially applies to potential security threats. I imagine his own family members get patted down off site, then escorted to the WH, and SS is always a few feet away. When Biden says "they told me not to do XYZ" Yaa... thats what he means by that. Reading is fun kids!
You will die. It is set that you will pass away. Humans have free will. There are rapes, abductions, tortures, abuses, murders, shootings, stabbings, burnings, beatings to death, bombs going off... horrific things every day. There are 7 billion people on this planet and there are plenty of murders and people most of us wish didn't exist.
If you are really waiting to be truly "safe" then you are waiting on a non existent utopia. If you think you can get the government, police to ensure there is never a evil act and to keep everyone safe all the time then you are pretty far out there.
To sum up, this is just an example of how many horrific, evil, messed up people societies are producing these days.
Murder legal? That is too assinine to even comment on. There is no law that will stop this. You think passing a law will save you. It won't. You cannot stop people from obtaining guns... or killing. Only them being good people will reign in our inner evil.
I don't understand the question. I carry a gun because sometimes a bad guy will present a gun, or a knife, or a baseball bat, or a crowbar, etc, etc. Guns made me safer. Seriously I keep gotta bringing it up over and over again, Jesus. A gun has saved my life twice. Your laws didn't, my guns did. That's it, period. If guns don't keep us safer why do all your politicians surround themselves with security guards with guns? Why does the police force use guns? Why does Beta B*tch O'Rourke talk about this sh*t but own 2 AR's? Legit question! Rules for thee, not for me. And I'm not a damn serf, dig?
how do you ban guns at an nra convention? public figures are a target so they get protection no matter which party. the gun restriction laws are for everyone else, they use trained armed guards.
they make us safer in some scenarios, and worse in others.
better control/limits might help. We have to have the ability to say no to a gun purchase and huge amount of ammo. I'd support that since we have a mental health crisis that frankly, isn't going to be resolved anytime soon, probably worse before better.
The real issues are civility, discipline, emotional training. I expect all that to get a lot worse.
gotta protect the kids, but guns are the downstream problem...
i think guns make nobody more or less safe. a tool is a tool. guns don't kill people. people kill people.
i understand the argument that if you don't hand a person a tool for a job, they can't do the job... but then again, if they want to do the job, they will do it either way, cause there's many tools to get that job done, if you understand this analogy.
so it seems like an easy way out to just ban firearms. and yeah certainly that would probably slightly reduce the number of people that one insane person could hurt. but that ignores the fact that there's a person that IS isnane enough to be willing to do such horrible things to begin with. and THAT is a difficult issue that won't be fixed by banning firearms. it needs to be adressed though and i don't see that it is, cause people focus so much on the tool, not the tool user.
@LuserName actually there's a number of countries where guns are more easily available and more commonly owned by people that have LESS such murders. so the correlation between weapon ownership and people murering other people isn't given.
i didn't quickly find a source, where a number of guns per capita is related to the number of homicides in international comparison, so i'll just provide the evidence for a lack of correlation between the number of guns and the number of violent crimes.
as you see, the total number of owned firearms as well as firearms owned per capita goes up and the number of gun homicies goes down independend from that.
there's lot's of different studies there. i won't go through all of them i picked one and checked if the data is consistent with what i said or not.
i picked this: "State-level homicide victimization rates in the U. S. in relation to survey measures of household firearm ownership, 2001-2003."
look at the data i posted. it ranges from 1993 to 2013. if you reference the time frame of that study you posted (2001-2003), you actually find that this is consistent with the data i shared. so there's no contradiciton there. just the scope of the study claiming there's a connection is limited on a small time frame, where there are actually coinciding numbers of gun related crimes and rising numbers of gun ownership.
Well, there was a whole lot of guns outside of that school. And 19 babies were still shot. In fact, the men who didn't have guns were threatening to storm the building. The police stopped them.
it literally blows my mind some of the logic people use that is just complete dog shit. like someone just compared gun deaths to car deaths? like wtf? and other people are suggesting we arm teachers like some wild west shootout movie as if we can expect teachers to defend the school? like what the fuck? what happens if a teach accidently shoots a student or another school staff?
instead of I don't know, making it harder to obtain guns in the first place. literally blows my fucking mind. i'm convinced these idiots are just saying these things just to get on peoples nerves because there is no way they are this stupid.
and then you have some of these truly insane people saying that this shit is a hoax. something needs to happen and be done. we need to stop the GOP from destroying people's lives.
You got lazy asshole. You used to be what you portrayed. A fat fuck, with man boobs, who was trying to be a woman that has a moustache. Then you went toddler.
If guns made us safer, then Texas would be the safest place on earth. Instead, we have Sutherland Springs church, El Paso Walmart, Midlands-Odessa shopping center, Killeen Luby's Cafeteria, Fort Hood (twice!), Santa Fe High School, Uvalde elementary school. And on and on.
So who stops the mass shooters? Cops? Why? Oh cuz they had guns, got it. What we have is a mental health issue and societal decay. At one time it was legal to own fully automatic weapons in this country. Yet it's only in the last decade or two we've seen this crap. Why? Because of mental health, neglectful parents, bullying, identiteriqnism, etc, etc. Explain the rampant suicides, drug use, riots, etc. People are miserable, that's the real cause.
@t-8900 are cops required to pass a background check before getting those guns? Yes. Do the cops have to go through special training before being allowed to have those guns? Yes. So great job pointing out gun control working
@John_Doesnt now apply it to street gangs and mass shooters. Please and thank you! Oh by the way. cops are terrible shots by and large, just saying. Look at the FBI stats for hits vs misses for LEO's and FBI agents please...32.8% of the time they hit their mark... not good enough. Police need more training and they often botch their own operations.
@John_Doesnt lmfao I'm saying they aren't going to go into the gun shop to get one. They go around that barrier with ease and buy it within the black market. Where I grew up it was actually pretty easy to obtain a firearm with serial numbers scratched off in the downtown area. Everything from drugs, guns, to f*cking pythons and crocodiles could be obtained in the underground.
@John_Doesnt CNN is proven an unreliable source too often to listen to. A more credible left wing source (since it's likely all you'll choose)? Reuters perhaps?
@t-8900 it doesn't matter what the source is, the facts are that the guy purchased the two guns on his 18th birthday with no background checks. Would you rather I source Fox News and OAN?
@John_Doesnt doesn't have to be fox, it's not my main news source. Why not a centrist source? I'll look into it of you link it. But what I don't understand is who do you people expe to protect you when it's someone inside your home at 2 AM with a large kitchen knife, machete, gun, etc? Or multiple baddies? You guys don't even consider those things in your emotionally charged, moralistic rants.
@t-8900 you can't give a "centrist" news source and it doesn't matter because every news source confirms he bought the assault rifles on his 18th birthday.
John Lott has done research that shows we are. Safer doesn’t mean zero shootings. But gun bans in places like Chicago are completely ineffective. Imagine a world in which no law-abiding citizen has a firearm- criminals would know they have nothing to fear and it’s open season for them. Especially where the police are a long ways away.
Are you sure about that? The gangbangers show how ineffective general gun bans are, and they aren’t respecting laws preventing them from legally possessing guns. Yet you falsely conflate them with law-abiding gun owners.
Because our hypocritical culture cites the 'protection' of concealed or even open carry, UNTIL YOU USE IT and there's collateral casualties and THEN you're a 'macho vigilante' who couldn't wait for proper law enforcement and those collateral casualties (or their kin) civilly SUE you! The 'good samaritan' premise is RARELY accepted as a defense. Those who routinely carry, when was the last time you went to the range and shot at targets 10-40 ft. away? How were your groups? (Always 'double tap' )
No, no, no, you see, the problem is there are not enough guns around. Everything will be fine, as soon as every law-abiding citizens carries at least one fantastic gun! We are not there yet. This also means to equip every schoolchild from the age of six with a size-appropriate weapon (i. e. no Desert Eagle for a first-grader). Children should no longer pack a lunchbox, they should pack a gun box. I am telling you, the United States could be the safest country on earth!
If only we had a group of fully armed special weapons and tactics who could show up in minutes to stop the bad guys. That would definitely make sure there are no mass shootings every again.
There hasn't been an event in history involving any political VIP where guns weren't banned. They're banned any time a senator is around, the governor is around, a congressman is around, or when the immediate family of one of those people is around. The political elite always get to demand special treatment, disarming you, the peasant, while they surround themselves with armed security.
Guns are a tool. Hammers don't make houses nor do they tear them down. Good people defending the oppressed by what ever means necessary makes us safer. Standing up for what is right makes us safer. Being united and NOT divided makes us safer. Being able to talk about it makes us safer and more united.
Big government does not make us safer.
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You make the most ridiculous bad faith arguments.
Do more guns make you safer?
Well dipshit, it depends. I felt pretty goddamn safe when I was in the military and everyone around me was armed with machine guns and grenade launchers.
But if I were in the hood hanging out with guys with face tattoos and matching clothes, I’d probably not want to join their company.
You clearly didn’t grow up around guns and have some pretty crazy ideas about firearm ownership.
Weapons have been around since 1776 and beforehand it was used to fight off the British. So why do you all see Trump as thE modern day frontman when again this has been a thing since 1776 before the NRA and before Trump was even born. I am American and i will push 2A until the end if time with or without Trump or a NRA.
If all everybody carried a rod then there would be no more issues with the bad guys. Bad guys come out because they know your vulnerable they go for granny’s purse but what they don’t know is she’s packing a 44. and she ain’t taking no trash Not TODAY!
12.9K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
I just attended firearms training this week. I never fired a handgun before and now I feel like I could defend myself in my home and property. I hope I never have to use it but over the last year I do not feel like the police can do their job.
The only way to greatly alleviate mass shootings is to bring back residential mental institutions in the United States. They started closing in the 1970s and were just about gone by the 1990s. It's no coincidence that Columbine happened in 1999.
So mass shootings are committed by the mentally stable? Obviously not. Also, have you not been paying attention to the increased number of people being attacked in the New York City subway system by random lunatics?
Before ever going on his rampage, the Uvalde shooter tortured animals and violently cut his own face. Not the behavior of someone who belongs integrated into the general population.
Firearm availability in this country has barely changed over the years. What has changed is allowing mentally unstable people to live in parks, foreclosured residences, with gullible relatives, and in public transportation hubs in large metropolitan areas instead of housing them in residential mental institutions.
Then there's the sick allure of committing copycat or one-up crimes, along with social media access that makes it easy to share and cultivate criminal insanity.
Until something is done to stop the forced normalization of the mentally unstable into the general public, nothing will change.
It's not just about "knowing" right from wrong. That's only a small part of the formula. It doesn't automatically make you mentally stable. Lack of caring for others (empathy), lack of impulse control, and total disregard for consequences are all large factors when it comes to a person's psychological profile, and their mental instability.
None of the teachers were allowed to carry a gun. The police didn't go in for an entire hour. The police even stopped the parents from taking action when they wouldn't. Schools are very well known "gun free zones" making them perfect for mass shooters.
Guns aren't the problem. We've had those for centuries, and mass shootings like these weren't common. This is what happens when social decay is allowed to happen. Guns are just the scapegoat.
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