Virtually every mass shooting has occurred in a "gun-free zone", including this one. These are areas where legal permit holders cannot legally carry. Why don't these happen where people can legally carry, especially when that virtually always means there are MORE guns in the vicinity?
The reality is that guns aren't going anywhere, so given that, why do the major crimes occur in areas where the good people are disarmed?
Remember that the US government (under Obama) were arming the cartels with machine guns - some of which have been confirmed to have killed US citizens and Border Patrol agents (this was the Fast And Furious operation). Criminals will always get guns - gangs in the UK have plenty - so even if you disarmed every citizen, criminals would still have them. And bombs aren't very difficult to make, so suicidal people would likely kill with bombs or vehicles.
No one ever wants to talk about realistic solutions, they just want to take away guns. But the Constitution is not going to make that very easy.
First we need to enforce the laws that already exist. Then get rid of “Gun free zones”. Criminals don’t obey the “Gun free zones” anyway Because they are criminals. Its just fish in a barrel. Only law abiding citizens obey the law. A criminal is less likely to shoot people if they know there is a strong possibility that someone will shoot back at them. Discharging a firearm in public is a crime. Killing somebody is a crime. But yet they still do it. Because they are criminals. Compare states with strong gun laws vs states that have very loose gun laws. There is easily a lot more gun issues in the states that have the strongest laws because, criminals don’t obey the law.
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In my country before I was born around the time of the Dunblane massacre a man walked into a primary school assembly armed with a flamethrower. Over in England and the rest of Europe it seems anyone with a lorry license can committ mass murder. What I see as a foreigner living in America is that crime is so out of control that gun ownership is a requirement. The real problem I see in the US is its mental health crisis and over medication of antidepressants. The BBC a few years ago did a documentary that linked mass shootings and antidepressants.
What would be the difference. All you have to do in America is go out and rent a Ford Ranger or rent a U-Haul truck. I was driving a u-haul truck a while back legally, how? I don't know because I'm a terrible driver. It was actually like this clip https://youtu.be/wRyg3BoagTc As far as I know you have to have a federal background check to own a gun legally. It was the same back home, but there were always plenty of ilegal guns available. Dublin for instance is the wild west yet its very difficult and expensive to actually own a gun legally.
I think that the Mass Depression is the result of unattainable expectations. My generation felt that if they went to school and got a good job, did their work and had a good attendance record, success was theirs. We had a strong working class. Jobs were plentiful. Then outsourcing began jobs disappeared. If you wanted a managerial job you need to speak a foreign language. Remember we are a materialistic society. Our well being is based on things and the ability to show others that we can afford things.
Based. We really need to address the mental health crisis, the sheer scale, the causes of it and the pharmaceutical link. Blaming it on guns is the laziest way to sweep the real societal threatening issues under the rug. Even if they know guns will never be banned, it’s actually even more beneficial for them. They (societal “leaders”) never have to address the real problems.
Great ideas. The problem with America is all the leftist law makers refuse to do anything but make another law. Or repeal the “no gun zones” Its so sad. A new law every couple years has not stopped anything. They refuse to see another strategy. Any time someone comes up with a different strategy they shout it down. Ever since the first mass school shooting in 1998. It’s always the same. Scientific method literally says if one idea doesn’t work, try a new one. But they just keep doubling down.
Uhn, yeah! Automatic rifles with graduation and shotguns at banks. MURICA!
Frankly, if Americans don't get a handle on their gun fanatics and implement gun controls, I'm just gonna have to settle in with popcorn to watch 'em all shoot each other.
Sucks, cause there's a good number of reasonable and good Americans I would want to live. But it's like getting emotionally attached to pigs on the slaughter line.
Keep making gun free zones… crazy people love soft targets. There are naturally places that never have problems with crazed gunmen. Gun ranges, police stations, and police bars. Crazed gunmen know they wouldn’t stand a chance at these places, they want to go to the places where No one else has a gun. I carry a gun everyday and never had a problem with that gun spontaneously start shooting people, there needs to be a mentally I’ll person for that gun to cause a problem. Let’s talk about mental illness. if I was ever someplace where an active shooter was to show up, I would shut him down quickly. Because regardless what you believe mass shooters are ALWAYS stopped by good guys with a gun.
It's the challenge of dealing with corrupt, poorly trained humans. The result of this debate/issue is certain... guns will have to be restricted as well as magazines. This is part of the takeover of the country and it's certain as a trickle of water taking down a barn.
But resistance is required. This is all emotionally damaged people, not guns. We know that. But noone here is arguing the restriction of RPG's, nuclear bombs, attack drones (with laser beams, mchine guns, and bombs)... which a well armed militia would have these days.
That said, I support peoples right to have guns, but restrictions need apply. Blech... I don't like myself saying that. The underlying problem is the training of society, but noone is talking about that.. and that is what needs discussed. I once thought of going to school to shoot a bully that hurt my feelings. I realized my dad would beat my A$$ and decided to just take the pain. You see the solution to most issues...
We have a mental health crisis. Please keep in mind that massacres of this nature are relatively new in our nations history with many starting in the 80s there has been a shift in morality and mental health. The weapons are inanimate objects that do nothing when left alone. We can’t blame objects for poor behavior. I own firearms but at the same time I am a mentally healthy man whose religious beliefs forbid murder unless it’s in self defense. If I ever shot someone it would be traumatizing.
I could make a 12 gauge shotgun out of a couple pieces of black steel pipe, a pipe cap, a screw, a 2x4, and a roll of duck tape that would splatter the small amount of brains you do have, out of the back of your skull… What’s next on the communist agenda, removal of all indoor plumbing? You commies really are stupid.
Weird how the shooter didn't understand that was a gun free zone. Surely more gun laws will change this.
Also weird how it was a black male shooter, the demographic that is overwhelmingly more prone to committing violent crime, who was targeting a specific person, but that was conveniently left out.
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Guns will always be accessible. Bad guys will either steal them or buy them off the black market. Remember. Criminals do not obey gun laws. Gun laws only restrict lawful self defense. And lefties will never disarm Americans, which could only be done by force. If they try, we will shoot them. Can you say 'Triple Tap'
MrOracle nailed it. The states that allow concealed or overt carry have better records. The bad guys will always find a way to get a gun illegally if they want to get a gun. Keeping them out of the hands of honest, responsible residents who carry them for self-defense is a sure sign that the area will be one of the next targets.
Guns don't kill people - people kill people. Rather basic, huh?
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Well, contrary to what conservatives keep asserting the more guns that are in circulation in the country, the less safe it's going to be. Conversely, however, having no guns is not exactly safe either since a certain number of people will always have guns and that shouldn't have them.
You *can* legally own machine guns in the US (and AR15's in the UK). You just need to prove you're capable of being entrusted with such a weapon. More of that kind of thing for gun owners in America wouldn't even affect most gun owners.
Limit magazine sizes, too. It's been done before (and found constitutional by SCOTUS).
@goaded no, it doesn't i'm changing a magazine and you're still going to stand in the hallway and die. there's nothing you can effectively do to a person changing magazines that you coulnd't have done before or you aren't too far away to do. What "fight back" are you going to do in one second Bruce Lee?
@BoopBoopBeep That's all well and good, but there have been examples of people being tackled when changing magazines (e. g. Tuscon), and also why do you assume I only mean hand-to-hand? Why isn't it a moment to come out from cover and aim (or run like hell)?
@goaded Aim with what? I'm likely hitting up a gun free area (school, shopping mall) so I'm the only one with anything to aim. Everybody can't run. Not faster than a bullet.
@OddBeMe Shopping malls must make a lot of people angry then... but sure. Don't care. I like being armed when they show themselves. I'm sure most of the people I've shot were angry right beforehand. Probably more afterwards. They should have made better life choices. I don't care about some violent strangers feelings.
I like the women in my family/life not having to manually fight off someone twice their size (at least) who intends to violate them. I don't care if they were an incel that got bullied.
I like that my elderly mother doesn't get thrown to the grown in a carjacking attempt. Or run over. I don't care what socioeconomic disadvantages the carjacker had.
Some people just make me happy more once they're dead.
It that what you think then look a the knifing statistics for the major cities over here in the UK, if Firearms are not available those who are are going to 'spree kill' they will find another weapon be that a knife, crossbow, screwdriver, hammer, tyre iron, car, suv, truck, the list is endless. All it really takes is someone to have the will to do the act.
If I put it was harder and longer to be able to get your gun license like a year. If only they did background checks. If only they made a law where you have to put trigger licks, and keep it locked up in safe.. there must be away. Oh wait murican! Where they make money off sick people, guns, and dead people.
In most red states licenses aren’t required. I’m in Texas and have three guns and no license. Went to gun shows, found a private seller who gave me guns for cash. Done.
You’d better be worried odd- your hero Biden is going to make your wife take in illegal MS-13 gangbangers and you being unarmed won’t be able to protect her. Actually, I don’t think you would protect her even if you were armed.
Exactly how was the question racist (you brought race into the discussion)? Your answer sure was, though, as is much of what you have posted here on GAG is. And you might want to be careful when attempting to wield the sword of racism because like any other weapon it can be turned against you, sometimes in ways you may not expect.
In answer to your question about whether blacks or whites are more likely to be perpetrators of rape, have you consulted FBI data on violent crime by race?
Your claim that you would shoot some people if they were raping your wife doesn't come close to aligning with your anti-gun stance and your soft-on-crime mentality (unless of course the "crime" is being opposed to Democratic Party corruption and other abuses). You're against people owning firearms, so how would you be armed with a firearm in order to be able to shoot someone raping your wife?
I believe you brought up ms 13. Like they’re the military wing of the Democratic Party…lol
Sigh…im not against people owning guns. I own three, purchased at gun shows without background checks or IDs. And if anyone was raping my wife, more likely a whitie, yes I would shoot them.
But thanks to economic benefits -tho we could have more- there is far less crime overall. And if we had some limits on guns, less rapists would have access.
LMAO, Odd, you're being deliberately obtuse. How is it "racist" for a guy with one Hispanic parent to bring up MS-13 when they are well-represented among the illegals and those committing violent crimes in the US? Are you now trying to cover up crimes by MS-13? It sure sounds like it.
So you are a firearm owner after all. LMAO. Do you support your firearms being taken away as well?
So you think a white guy is most likely to rape your wife. Do you have anything to back that up with? Or is it just your racism talking?
Odd, everyone knows you're racist, so don't try to deflect and play dumb. What you posted made no sense. I don't know why you have such a soft spot for MS-13 and other criminals (who incidentally, mostly have victims who are also Hispanic).
It's true that a majority of all violent crime (but far from all) has same race perpetrators/victims, but from what you're saying 1) you live in a segregated white area, and 2) your wife is considered white by other people.
So why do get angry with your nickname, "The Scion of Segregation and Slavery"? It's an accurate one!
But let's say your wife is being raped by someone who isn't white or Hispanic. Will you shoot him too, or just slink away? It's not a difficult question. And what will you do when your anti-firearm activism leads to you being disarmed as well? What will you do? Or if there are multiple rapists?
Personally, I think it's dangerous to assume that you would only be attacked by a fellow white, And you're in Texas, where whites are a minority, especially at the age cohorts that commit most violent crimes.
You are very obsessed with talking about raping my wife. I won’t hesitate to shoot you or anyone else. Just ordered hollow points if Scion of Rape shows up.
Well, damn, look how hard it was to drag even that vague statement out of you. The point of using rape as an illustrative example was to see if you could grow a pair of balls and defend her, so it had to be an example that would bring out emotions in you and therefore action. It couldn't be some neutral thing,
Now to correct you (something that has to be constantly done): no one here on GAG is obsessed with raping your wife, so you don't need to threaten me or anyone else. You were merely asked what you would do if it were happening because you're such a soy boy cuck.
Now, Odd, you claim to have majored in English, so there is no excuse for you so badly misusing the word "scion". A "scion of rape", as you so clumsily put it, would be someone who was born because their biological father raped their biological mother (a scion is someone who is an heir to a wealthy family). I've warned you numerous times that your mouth and lack of any impulse control is going to get you in trouble, and saying dumb stuff like that doesn't help your cause, especially now that you've confirmed you're a trigger-happy racist with a firearms collection who bears strong political grudges.
Like it or not as a result of decades of very bad cultural leadership created an unprecedented mental health crisis. For everyone nut who kills others there are hundreds if not thousands who kill themselfs.
As a culture thanks to "modern" cultural values like tolerance ("don't judge me") and isolation we are no longer dealing with problems anymore. Those problems as a result just get out of control.
as if criminals submit to laws. criminals get guns regardless of laws so no excuse to make laws. also if MORE people had guns they can stop shooters instead of waiting helpless for cops to travel to a crime scene
Wrong. I prefer Robert A. Heinlein approach: "And armed society is a polite society."
With every law-abiding citizen armed, criminals, mass murderers, gang members wouldn't stand a chance getting away with the laughably easy in & out of jail stuff they do.
Bad take on crime prevention. Simply having access to a means doesn't cause the problem. You want less homicides? Increase the financial stability of the households in the nation's worst neighborhoods.
Why don’t we have armed officers at the schools? I know you don’t want to arm the teachers but we do need to protect our students. Think about this we protect banks more then we protect our youth why is that?
And how exactly would any of those proposals solve anything? School shooters know they're gonna get caught and they want to get caught, they want to be famous and influential, notorious. A gun registry to them is no different than that moronic 'gun free zone' sign. Only way to stop shootings via the metal health route is if you just ban lonely people from having guns. And even then thievery is rampant. Only thing those authoritarian laws are gonna do is make it more difficult for the average person to get a gun that may save their lives.
If those proposals would have so much as helped a single soul you would have said so yourself. And the 'hypothetical question about the future' is one that you want to solve in the first place. Otherwise, why did you post a picture involving a school shooting. But sure, if you think that was just a 'hypothetical question about the future' can you give me a single plausible scenario where your proposals would stop atrocities?
Oh, so you're once again dodging to answer. I wonder why that might be. It's almost like you know I'm right and your proposals are nothing more than emotional grandstanding that aren't gonna do jack shit to stop a single atrocity.
I just told you, I can’t answer because we’ve never tried it. I can point to examples like Australia- former British colony with lots of rural areas surround large metropolises- but I would guess you’d scoff at that too.
Guns in the hands of responsible who know how to handle them are not dangerous. In Israel nearly everyone is carrying a gun, all trained by the military. Not scary or dangerous at all. Guns in the hands of people who think they can shoot from watching movies and buying ammo at WalMart, now that is terrifying. Guns don’t kill. Irresponsible people kill.
We need to take away their guns. Too many losers like nikolas cruz and the numbers are only increasing. Once we ban guns the schools will be safer like in Finland.
Yes there needs to be safety measures for people with issues, as Cruz had. Will it stop all murders? No but stats wise we have 30,000 gun deaths a year. All of Europe has less than 500.
Cruz was mentally stable and was able to work a job handle and aim a gun. He was pretending to hear voices in his interview. There is difference between mentally ill and being crazy. A crazy person does not care who they hurt. A mentally ill person takes has issues and are working trying to work through them. Most mentally ill people are harmless. So we need to remove guns.
bernie madoff did not even cry when his son ended his life and he did not even care about it either. bernie madoff is a crazy person who knows what he was doing was wrong horrible. Same with Cruz. They are both crazy there is underling mental illness.
Mental illness is when someone is struggling with life and wants to get better. I do not view Cruz as mentally ill because he knew exactly what he was doing same as madoff. Madoff destorys peoples lives and for what? His son died because of his dumb choices. And madoff does not care madoff poked fun of one of his clients who ended their life.
To me knowing what you are doing is wrong and still doing it is a crazy person.
If doctors where killed as often as babies being aborted, all state would outlaw abortion that is being used as birth control. Since there are so many ways ro stop getting pregnant. Should only have e reason to have an abortion.
If more people legally carried guns, bad people would be stopped. Mass gun killing is a mental issue. And safe zones don't work. Owning a gun is a God given right, and a constitutional one. Even the Bible. Let the one whom has no sword sell his cloak and buy one Luke 22. Evil will be done by evil people, and good people can stop them
Good image. Great line. I would think so but like Joel here, gunnuts sincerely think they make you safer. And politicians love the money from gun companies.
@gorydetails and if a gunfight ensues…would these security guys be more safe or the criminals in more danger? No. Statistics have gun trained cops hitting targets at less than 30% during gun fights.
Not according stats. But I have no issue with people having guns. I just want to make it harder. You guys should want that too. Instead of banning all guns- which neither of us want.
Very much according to stats. I've shot more people than have shot me. That's statistically demonstrated.
I think guns are hard enough to get on paper. Whether or not we adhere to that is a different story. "Rape laws keep women safe." I mean... yeah... moreso than not having them, but too many people missed that memo and still do it. Or at least try.
I think gun crimes should come with higher sentencing and I think gang related crimes should go back to 3 strikes. That'd clear up most of the gun crimes. I honestly don't care about school shootings. Despite what the media would lead us to believe the likelihood of being in one is too small for my give a shiz meter to jiggle. I'm far more likely to be caught in the middle of a driveby. Statistically speaking, and because I have actually been in a driveby and not a school shooting. I also think we need to go back to where we could call a crazy a crazy and involuntarily commit people that have no business being around a pointy stick, much less a firearm.
Nationwide there were 51 school shootings and 140 killed or injured in 2022. Chicago topped 600 homicides and 2,600 shootings in 2022. You let your kids go to the Jazz Museum in downtown KC? They're more likely to get shot looking for parking there. Our courts are a joke, our prosecutors are inept and the U. S. prison system as a whole is better than a lot of places I've stayed at by choice.
Thousands of guns in my family tree and not one has illegally killed anyone, but we've got junior high schoolers talking about how hard they are cause they smoked somebody wearing the wrong colors. Sorry, the guy going through the 10 second FBI check at the gunshow just isn't my biggest worry when it comes to gun violence in the U. S.
@msc545 well, yes, but if there's no money there's no problem right? We'll just pretend like it doesn't exist, don't fund it and see what happens. Or we'll inefficiently fund it so it costs three times as much and does half as much good. That's government for ya
@msc545 See that's why people don't like crazy people. They are just inconsiderate. If you're going to have a psychotic break/schizo episode, the least you could do is have it in banking hours. Jeez.
Exactly. It's very inconsiderate to have psychiatric issues when people that can help you are on their break or have already gone home from work. You would think people could wait to the next day.
@msc545 Or in these municipalities where they have "specially trained intervention people" which is like... as social worker who saw an extra power point presentation... I know because they tried to make my mom one (the difference was literally one day of training with a power point slide)... and there's like 4 in the county, so you gotta spend an hour trying to find one, then they have to drive there, another hour, then they have to get body armor and get briefed on what's what and get started, another hour... make sure you have your crisis in slow motion or give a call a few hours BEFORE you have one so people can get spun up properly
Also, that person has had little or no training in which case they are incompetent, OR they have had literally years of training in which case they are too expensive.
Also, they need to have lunch before they deploy to whatever problem there is.
@msc545 Yep go government. My mom was like "what drugs are you on thinking I'm going to do this as a single mother"... and there wasn't even additional pay involved... just... something to put on your resume I guess. Or tombstone. The lady who replaced her was gangraped in a stash house.
If someone is trained, they know enough to never take a job like this. I have straight-up turned down stuff like this several times because I know better, fortunately.
@msc545 Yeah my mom's never been one to take the advice of dumb. THe other lady was nice, but she was one of those "always do what the boss says and don't question it" types of people... pity where that got her...
Anywhere from 3-40,000,000 Americans ignored the ATF’s rule on Pistol Braces and became felons on June 1st. Even if laws are passed, I don’t see the enforcement going well.
What it means is that there are some people sjws claims need guns to protect themself. You want to restrict guns, fine by me, restrict them for those people sjws claims need them.
@Juxtapose It's because he, like all loser commies on this site, gleefully thinks that there's not enough government control, and like the fools they are, they think they'll be welcomed with open arms for being good rules followers.
"Basic to the debates on gun control is the fact that most violent crime is committed by repeat offenders. Dealing with recidivism is key to solving violence.
71% of gunshot victims had previous arrest records. 64% had been convicted of a crime. Victims had an average of 11 prior arrests. 1, 2 63% of victims had criminal histories and 73% of that group knew their assailant (twice as often as victims without criminal histories). 3 74% of homicides during the commission of a felony involve guns. 4 Most gun violence is between criminals. This should be the public policy focus."
"Fact: 90% of all violent crimes in the U. S. do not involve firearms of any type. 24
Fact: Even in crimes where the offender possessed a gun during the commission of the crime, 83% did not use or threaten to use the gun. 25
Fact: Fewer than 1% of firearms will ever be used in the commission of a crime. 26
Fact: Two-thirds of the people who die each year from gunfire are criminals being shot by other criminals. 27
Fact: Cincinnati’s review of their gang problem revealed that 74% of homicides were committed by less than 1% of the population. 28
Fact: 92% of gang murders are committed with guns. 29 Gangs are responsible for between 48% and 90% of all violent crimes. 30
Fact: Most gun crimes are gang related, and as such are big-city issues. In fact, if mayors in larger cities were more diligent about controlling gang warfare, state and nationwide gun violence rates would fall dramatically."
“ Two-thirds of the people who die each year from gunfire are criminals being shot by other criminals”. How do you define being a “criminal”? I would imagine unless it’s a huge West Side Story gang romp and not drive bys the victims aren’t criminal at the time.
And with all those stats…still 30,000 gun deaths a year, 29,500 more than all of Europe combined.
@Juxtapose So this got me down a short rabbit hole of the lunacy we're facing with the propaganda press.
Hillary used BleachBit to delete the emails.
Trump says: After her private server was revealed last March, her staff deleted all the emails and wiped it clean using a software designed to prevent any recovery,” Trump said, reading from the teleprompter at a speech in Ohio.
WAPO says: The name “BleachBit” is meant to evoke the idea of using bleach to clean something thoroughly — in this case: bits, electronic data. But in short order, Trump began describing this security step involving free software as a literal use of bleach.
@Juxtapose how many times has this happened? I remember exactly a year ago they froze you for that video about concentration camps for covid. And countless times in between. I guess imma start posting this around as well lol.
Look it up. Biden's brain is gone and he has to filter on his mouth. If we put the military on the border, then you can say we're trying. We are not only not trying, illegals are staying in five star hotels.
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