Are mass shootings something we have to accept as part of a supposedly free society?

[msc545]

So it's been a few days since those 19 white kids were all killed and already we are forgetting (since the black kids that got killed since then apparently don't count). There is no solution to this problem of mass shootings at all, apparently, so do we just need to live with it and accept it? Maybe so. I've got no acceptable or creative ideas.

Updates

+1 y

Some of you may die. But it’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make.

Updates

+1 y

Correction: They were Hispanic, NOT white kids. Still.

[BCA6010]

Oh there's solutions and mitigations, but nothing that will actually help is likely to pass because it's too complex and steps on too many toes across multiple donors and benefactors that are far more aggressive than the "gun lobby" (most notably pharma, police and teachers unions as well as rich sociopaths) to meaningfully address, and laws alone do little or nothing where mental health and cultural decline are concerned. Politicians are only interested in quick, simple proposals that they can immediately try to run on in reelection, or solidify their own power and authority.

Passing gun restrictions at the federal level is also basically political suicide, but I could see at least a few Republicans caving to implementing a minimum 21 year age limit to Semi-automatic firearms. This would be a relatively "safe" thing to do because handguns are already illegal to purchase before 21 anyway, and it wouldn't stop an 18yr old from buying a bolt-action rifle or pump shotgun for hunting or target shooting. It's a stupid argument to make and I don't support it, but it would be the most likely thing to pass without self-destruction by all parties involved. Anything more extreme than that would be very unlikely to get anywhere beyond the state level, and even this would be very risky, but it's a very straightforward measure that can be argued in the context of shootings in recent memory.

Another less likely proposal is regulating certain weapons based on arbitrary traits in the same way that suppressors and short-barreled rifles/shotguns are: through tax stamps and extremely long waiting periods. This sounds appealing to people who've never messed with this process before, but they fail to realize that this would be pretty much impossible to actually implement due to how many Semi-automatic firearms are privately owned across the country, and just grandfathering them out would defeat its own purpose. A very conservative estimate would suggest that the ATF would have to increase in size by a factor of about 50 times over just to accommodate this, and it would take probably more than a decade just to get caught up.

[OldWorldOrder]

"Mass shootings" are part & parcel of living in a big city, according to the mayor of London.

They are certainly a commonplace occurrence in 3rd world countries, which is what the USA is quickly becoming.

Demographics are destiny. We let a million of the shittiest people from around the world flood our country every year, we destroyed the nuclear family and became fat and greedy. We wage completely unjustified wars all around the planet.

America deserves everything that's happening to it. :)

[Anonymous]

We can start by banning guns, since that’s literally the only way these people are getting away with killing so many at a time. It’s the modern way of serial killing for guys. And we can also require that all men go through some sort of counseling in schools.

While we’re at it, we can also try to reduce the dichotomy created between the democrats and the republicans because that’s one of the only reasons so many men are opposed to changing gun laws. American men will do anything to not appear democratic in the slightest. It’s honestly quite pathetic. And video games should not be allowed for anyone under 18. Clearly these men are developing a fixation with using guns.

I think this would be a good way to have all grounds covered.

[Opinion Owner]

I hope you get shot and then we’ll talk again. I would say your kids, but they shouldn’t have to suffer for your stupidity.

[Sargentcaptain]

"There is no solution to this problem of mass shootings at all, apparently"

Well if only people were focused on the actual causes and didn't just have a knee jerk reaction of 'BwAn gUnZ', maybe the issue would have been resolved, but fuck doing that.
Enter the 90s, when the no gunz at schoolz legislation was passed, and dipshits were clapping the incoming success of a policy which lead to school shootings becoming way more frequent. Or take just the general gun grabbing policies becoming hot shit in the last 15 years, those resulted in mass shootings becoming more common.
The actual causes are a dogshit culture and lack of morality and respect, especially among younger generations and the media becoming the 24/7 stream free advertising for the mass shooters and their messaging.

[Akanzal]

I'm not for any gun control. What we need to do is more mental health screenings, refunding the mental institutions, increase the threshold to send someone with a mental illness that may be a danger to themselves or others to a mental institution and they can appeal it but must remain in the facility during the appeal process no exceptions.

[Akanzal]

But I guess I'm describing a red flag law which is what I'm in favor of.

[msc545]

Who will pay for all this? Also you cannot hold people against their will because you think they might commit a crime in the future.

[Akanzal]

They should to be evaluated by a psychiatric doctor and they could turn in a report to the court about their concerns about the person in question. Mentally disturbed people shouldn't have guns. The states used to have a higher budget for institutions and mental health programs but they closed a lot of the intuitions down.

This is not a new idea we used to put someone in a mental institution if they were experiencing a mental health crisis for treatment and rehabilitation before they became a danger to themselves or others.

[msc545]

Who will pay me to do this?

[Akanzal]

@msc545 The states should increase their budget for mental institutions and mental health programs which I believe the money should be diverted to that rather than gun control. It's not the gun, it's the person with a mental illness.

[msc545]

What money are you talking about?

[Juxtapose]

Maybe it's because 13% of the population commits 52% of the homicides and nothing is being done to fix their culture which was shattered by a racist government that wanted to turn them into fatherless thugs.

[UCrayCray]

I have another interesting stat to share with you.
There is a demographic that is just shy of 50% of the entire population, and the FBI shows they commit a whopping 87.7 % of homicides.
Until people start talking about that, you included, nothing is going to change. Placing the blame at the feet of one demographic when clearly, others are no different, helps nobody.

[Juxtapose]

@UCrayCray isn't that already addressed with men getting harsher sentences in court?

[Juxtapose]

Well that isn't really the way to address it, people have to have more self-discipline and control their impulses or their programming that was instilled in them during youth.

[UCrayCray]

“Well that isn't really the way to address it”
Wait! So looking at it from a gender POV isn’t going to address it, but looking at it from a skin color POV will?
Why not hair color?
Or height?
They are just as arbitrary as skin color. You know them damn shorties are born with the criminal in them. 🙄

[Juxtapose]

@UCrayCray it's the culture rather than the physical attributes with blacks, but with men it is in our nature.

I am an example of a male that has been properly socialized and I am not a threat to anyone that does not threaten me.

[UCrayCray]

“It’s natural for me, but it’s not for them.”
Do you even hear yourself?

[Juxtapose]

@UCrayCray yeah. I think being black biologically doesn't do shit for temperament. Being male *does*.

[slatyb]

No, it's not. There's freedom, and free-dumb. In the US we have a lot of free-dumb. There are free societies where mass shootings don't happen. Why? Because guns are tightly regulated.

[Sargentcaptain]

Ah, it's the guns, which is exactly why all the gun grabbing policies of the recent years lead to... mass shootings becoming around 10 times more frequent compared to the 80s... that didn't go according to plan, or did it?

> clearly, the solution is less guns and less rights for the citizens

[slatyb]

@Sargentcaptain it worked everywhere it was tried

[Sargentcaptain]

Have you even read my response?

[slatyb]

@Sargentcaptain Yes. So? Other developed countries with serious gun control don't suffer multiple shootings. Only the US.

[Sargentcaptain]

Again for the mentally challenged, in the US when we had better rights we had less mass shootings, when the shitstains started banning guns in schools and started cracking down on weapons that is when mass shootings and school shootings became 10 to 20 times more frequent. How in the hell do you go about explaining that *tiny* discrepancy?

[msc545]

@Sargentcaptain easy. Correlation is not causation.

[Sargentcaptain]

*mass shootings becoming more frequent as we have more stringent gun regulation*

> Correlation is not causation

... so, what is causing it then?

[slatyb]

@Sargentcaptain Of course we had fewer mass shootings. The population was a lot smaller, and a lot more rural. And military assault rifles weren't available.

[msc545]

I don't know but I doubt it is the result of making regulations

[Sargentcaptain]

Population increases by 1.5, mass shooting went up by twenty times that. As far as the rural justification goes, were talking about the 1980s, not 1480s. And the military assault riffles thing is just not true, especially when you see just how prevalent pistols are in homicides.

[Sargentcaptain]

@msc545 As far as the school shootings go, yeah, it's absolutely the dogshit laws, chief among which the one forbidding guns at school premises.
Imagine you're a school shooter, you're dead set on killing some teachers/classmates or anyone at the building. Now you aren't an idiot, you know that you're gonna get caught and that you'll be put behind bars for the rest of your life, but you mainly value your life and really don't wanna die. Now, with the shitty laws, your survival is contingent on your actions with the police. If you surrender peacefully, your life is basically guaranteed. But, if any adult at the school could be carrying and you start blasting, you might get blasted at by any adult, you'd never know who the threat could be coming from and they could strike you at any moment.

[msc545]

You must be really naive to think that product of tortured logic will do anything to stop school shooters. The cops won't kill them? Please!

[Sargentcaptain]

In what way is the logic tortured?

> The cops won't kill them? Please!

... yeah, what are you missing here?

[msc545]

I am not missing anything. Your assumption that School shooters will happily be killed by cops but will avoid parents with guns is just really bullshit.

[slatyb]

@Sargentcaptain We're talking about mass murders, not handgun deaths.

[Sargentcaptain]

www.statista.com/.../

[Sargentcaptain]

I'm not assuming anything. Cops don't kill people who get arrested peacefully.

[msc545]

Right. Never. Lol!

[Sargentcaptain]

Fuck it, generally. Happy now?

[msc545]

Think before you assert things that fit your biases but are also completely illogical.

[Sargentcaptain]

Brilliant response, getting so much value from this back and forth. Mostly comedic value.

[exitseven]

No, it was not always a problem so there must be a way to undo whatever it is that caused this. The same thing with 5 dollar a gallon gas.

[msc545]

Unfortunately, there is no obvious way.

[exitseven]

it is not obvious but there is no less a solution.

[msc545]

What is the solution?

[exitseven]

We go back to embracing family values once again. Single parent households are rare instead of the norm and neighborhoods were stable places where everyone looked out for everyone else's kid.

[msc545]

Large corporations mostly owned by Republicans and certainly run by them don't want to pay workers a living wage so unfortunately it's going to take two adults from every household working to maintain that household. I know you don't want to believe that and you want to find other reasons for what's occurring but what is occurring is a direct result of Republican economic policies.

[msc545]

Also, Family Values you're fine and well but they won't change gas prices.

[exitseven]

that is true us a lot of cases, however young people today want everything immediately. A big house, two SUVs, Disneyworld vacations and big screen TVs. They put their kids in daycare so they can have all the extra things in life at the expense of their kids. I saw it in my own neighborhood. My wife was the only one that stayed home with our kids and we were not wealthy. We just did without a lot of extra stuff but our kids played in their own yards and when they were sick they could stay in bed and my wife would take care of them. Nobody wants to do that today.

[exitseven]

@msc545 Becoming energy independent again will help that. We all know what has to happen first however.

[msc545]

No, doing something about corporate greed and Psychopathic CEOs will do something about it

[anylolone]

In the US, more or less yes.
19 people in this time frame is peanuts for the us and it's size.

[Kingofkings1992]

To an extent yes. There will always be people killing others. That will never change.

[Anonymous]

Sure but that doesn't mean we shouldn't look at what motivates people to do those things. That is the only way we can solve this.

[Anonymous]

In America, no one of them give a fuck. More guns for everyone

[NathanDavis]

we have done that since Columbine...

[lpoots]

it is in america

[Jamie05rhs]

Excuse me? "White"?

[msc545]

well - correct. brown. Sorry.

[Fuentes]

Evil exist